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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: KHAANNN on Fri, 13 March 2015, 15:01:15

Title: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 13 March 2015, 15:01:15
is available

I'm strongly considering buying the domain and reviewing keyboards for the sake of humanity

I suspect some of the overlooked/fancy gaming mechanical keyboards might be ping free, corsair's look pretty solid, zalman/razer's seem so flimsy that I suspect they just might not ping for that reason, cooler master rapid-i's seem to have a white plate that just might prevent the ping, but I just can't get myself to risk it and test them

( edit: another one bites the dust http://www.amazon.com/review/RQZV7CVTKKQT7/ )
( edit: my WASD V2's ping )
( edit: I've heard the1onewolf's KUL ping, it's no different than the WASD's, might even be more severe )
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 13 March 2015, 15:10:51
In my experience there are a ton of factors that contribute to ping. Things like switch type, spring weight, lube, and your typing style all effect whether a plate will ping. Also some cases hide it while others seem to amplify it.

Edit: Also the material the plate is made of and how it attaches to the case.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 13 March 2015, 15:20:15
My problem is with the plate(s), as I bottom-out/type, the keyboard should just absorb the force rather than retain/resonate audibly
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: keyhopper on Fri, 13 March 2015, 15:43:18

I suspect some of the overlooked/fancy gaming mechanical keyboards might be ping free, corsair's look pretty solid, zalman/razer's seem so flimsy that I suspect they just might not ping for that reason, cooler master rapid-i's seem to have a white plate that just might prevent the ping, but I just can't get myself to risk it and test them


I have a Razer TKL 2014 with Razer Orange switches, and it does not ping. Though I hate it because the switches are very inconsistent.

The construction itself feels solid and the keyboard is quite heavy, that is certain; it's the switches and the keycaps that leave much to be desired.

Cheers!
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 13 March 2015, 16:10:58
If it has a spring.. IT PINGS..   the question is  HOW LOUDLY...
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 13 March 2015, 16:44:53
If it has a spring.. IT PINGS..   the question is  HOW LOUDLY...

Thats sort of what I was saying, like my greys are crazy loud.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: wlhlm on Fri, 13 March 2015, 16:49:51
Reading the title I thought it would be about something like downforeveryoneorjustme (http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/).
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 14 March 2015, 02:58:06

I suspect some of the overlooked/fancy gaming mechanical keyboards might be ping free, corsair's look pretty solid, zalman/razer's seem so flimsy that I suspect they just might not ping for that reason, cooler master rapid-i's seem to have a white plate that just might prevent the ping, but I just can't get myself to risk it and test them


I have a Razer TKL 2014 with Razer Orange switches, and it does not ping. Though I hate it because the switches are very inconsistent.

The construction itself feels solid and the keyboard is quite heavy, that is certain; it's the switches and the keycaps that leave much to be desired.

Cheers!

I also bought a razer TKL a while ago but returned it even before shipment after I realized there was no backlight yet the reverted fonts were still there, it was also an orange, I wish I kept it tho, it was very affordable, if it doesn't suffer from plate ping, it would make a nice donor for new switches and keycaps, now they are all gone in my country and I don't want to import it from US

tp4tissue, like I mentioned, yes springs ping, but it's preventable/mendable, plate/keyboard ping on the other hand is mostly there to stay

I think the plate should be either a very thick metal, or it should be a strong plastic instead, most of these keyboards have thin metal plate's that resonate like crazy

Imagine you had a really huge aluminium plate, a meter by meter, it would wobble like crazy in your hand, the same happens with each keystroke
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: Novus on Sat, 14 March 2015, 03:48:31
My Kul pings :/
 :'(
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: NorrisB on Sat, 14 March 2015, 08:08:35
http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/mcrip (http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/wiki/mcrip)
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 14 March 2015, 08:15:04
My ikbc used to ping like crazy, when I lubed the springs it went away completely.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 14 March 2015, 08:30:53
Wow, I made the wiki, so proud

Yet I'm very convinced the main issue is plate quality/hardness, so my hunt continues
It's more of a hunt to achieve the ultimate bottom-out-typing experience, and the bottleneck is the plate
(One consistent testing method would be to remove all the switches, close the keyboard and hit the frame, a non-pingy keyboard shouldn't resonate in that case)
(On a personal level, I'm really hoping the infinity keyboards / steel plate's won't ping, the infinity is the next keyboard on my test list, hope it will be the last for a while)
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: NorrisB on Sat, 14 March 2015, 08:58:01
This is classic McRip Effect
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: keyhopper on Sat, 14 March 2015, 11:48:30
[...]
I also bought a razer TKL a while ago but returned it even before shipment after I realized there was no backlight yet the reverted fonts were still there, it was also an orange, I wish I kept it tho, it was very affordable, if it doesn't suffer from plate ping, it would make a nice donor for new switches and keycaps, now they are all gone in my country and I don't want to import it from US
[...]

Although the plate is thick and painted with a thick textured paint that might absorb reverberances, some Razer's might still ping.
Maybe mine doesn't because Razer Orange uses light springs (akin in weight to reds)?
Though mine suffers from a different noise problem for which I found a fix with isopropyl alcohol (see my first post ever (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62819.msg1471118#msg1471118)).

Costar stabilizers on it are a b*tch too. No matter which lube I use, I have to re-lube some weeks later and find all sorts of gunk and pet hair on the stabilizers inserts. Maybe I have to use less lube.

Sometimes I miss lousy cheap keyboards, they were low maintenance. But when typing a little on a laptop keyboard I miss my mechanicals and can't wait to go back to them.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 14 March 2015, 12:08:15
[...]
I also bought a razer TKL a while ago but returned it even before shipment after I realized there was no backlight yet the reverted fonts were still there, it was also an orange, I wish I kept it tho, it was very affordable, if it doesn't suffer from plate ping, it would make a nice donor for new switches and keycaps, now they are all gone in my country and I don't want to import it from US
[...]

Although the plate is thick and painted with a thick textured paint that might absorb reverberances, some Razer's might still ping.
Maybe mine doesn't because Razer Orange uses light springs (akin in weight to reds)?
Though mine suffers from a different noise problem for which I found a fix with isopropyl alcohol (see my first post ever (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62819.msg1471118#msg1471118)).

Costar stabilizers on it are a b*tch too. No matter which lube I use, I have to re-lube some weeks later and find all sorts of gunk and pet hair on the stabilizers inserts. Maybe I have to use less lube.

Sometimes I miss lousy cheap keyboards, they were low maintenance. But when typing a little on a laptop keyboard I miss my mechanicals and can't wait to go back to them.

We're probably at a similar place currently :)

I jumped onto green switches as I was really bothered by the balancer issues like you mentioned, I thought the clicks and the clacks would mask the balancer sounds, and they did, yet the plate ping was unbearable, again because of the increased force of the non-linear switches

Now, the balancer sound imperfections are extremely bearable, I don't even bother with them

I personally love Costar stabs, I lube both the inside and outside of the inserts, after a while the outside lube washes down and the space key gets an extra clack, but I find it bearable

On signature plastic keycaps, the keycap removal is also pretty easy, since the keycaps are very loose, especially the space key, it would take 30 seconds for me to re-lube it

My ideal keyboard would have costar stabs, green switches, trampoline mods and a capable plate to handle the force
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: tidadog on Sat, 14 March 2015, 12:36:05
Do you have any web developer expierence?  If not I would be interested in making a drupal site for the domain if you buy it.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: qwack on Sat, 14 March 2015, 12:54:49
Yet I'm very convinced the main issue is plate quality/hardness, so my hunt continues

I think the case and overall construction are bigger factors than the plate alone. Pretty much all keyboards use 1.5 mm thick steel plate, some of them ping, some don't.

I was mildly annoyed by the slight ping and the resonance caused by my Pure Pro when typing (bottoming out with Reds), and since I also found that it was sitting too high on the desk, I removed the plate/pcb/switches assembly from the case and bolted it down on a 2 mm thick acrylic sheet with 2 mm thick silicone pads to absorb the shock when typing hard (and so as not to crush the diodes & resistors when bolting the plate). Add rubber feet to prevent it from sliding and voilą, a ping/shock-absorbing low-profile minimalistic case.

(http://reho.st/self/0aa5bfa245973bbb3f8e41989cbb13ba52dadd2e.jpg)

(http://reho.st/self/1e36833194a68659b5ac1caf70576c01f20ca31d.jpg)

No resonance, no ping, same switches and plate. Kind of a dirty hack and probably not the best solution for larger keyboards, but for a 60% it works really well.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 14 March 2015, 13:08:31
That is a beautiful setup, ++respect

I briefly considered something similar for a TKL, yet like you mentioned, it's challenging

My latest idea is to glue the underside of the plate with a glue gun, in between the switches, the empty areas, hoping that the glue will absorb the resonation
Like drawing a glue matrix under the plate (requires desoldering)

I might try it before soldering the infinity set, if I notice a hint of pinginess with that keyboard too (in 2 months that is ...)
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: qwack on Sat, 14 March 2015, 13:30:51
For larger keyboards, I think that some people stuff their keyboard case (the space between the bottom and the PCB) with some sort of rubber sheet to achieve the same result, I would try thatbefore attempting to fill the spaces between the plate and the PCB with glue (which might be irreversible).
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 14 March 2015, 14:09:30
For larger keyboards, I think that some people stuff their keyboard case (the space between the bottom and the PCB) with some sort of rubber sheet to achieve the same result, I would try thatbefore attempting to fill the spaces between the plate and the PCB with glue (which might be irreversible).

I've tried the stuffing method, currently my red-switched keyboard is usable, probably thanks to the stuffing, yet it's still possible to ping the plate

The glue-gun glues are very easily removable, so I'm sure, in the worst case, the whole thing would be in-effective but reversible (the glue just stays on the plate, not touching the switches, I'm not sure there is enough space for an effective application tho)
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: NorrisB on Sat, 14 March 2015, 14:30:15
Have you tried reading that link I posted Khan?
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 14 March 2015, 14:55:59
Have you tried reading that link I posted Khan?
of course.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: brimborion on Sat, 14 March 2015, 15:26:21
My KBP v60 with Matias don't seem to ping. But I don't hear much ping in any of my keyboards except my Model Ms so maybe I am not sensitive enough to it.
Title: Re: doesitping.com
Post by: Huxley2500 on Sat, 14 March 2015, 18:03:26
Embrace the Ping.