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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Nikelu on Tue, 17 March 2015, 14:52:09
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Assuming logically that you will need to click super fast one would say that the lighter the switch the faster it activates. What are your opinions and experiences. So should one prefer Reds over Blacks or Browns over Clears ?
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The heavier the switch the faster it returns. I don't think the weight really affects how quickly most people can press the switch down, but how quickly the switch comes back up is out of the gamer's control.
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Assuming logically that you will need to click super fast one would say that the lighter the switch the faster it activates. What are your opinions and experiences. So should one prefer Reds over Blacks or Browns over Clears ?
Depends on the game I guess, if mis-clicks could have dire costs, blue's could be better, but if you're just spamming wasd like a buffoon, red's are probably better
I get all the switches, but I still don't get browns, they seem very irritating to me, they're like reds that have something stuck in them
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So I just switched my WASD keys from blues to reds, and so far the only thing I can say is that it's quieter - this should be the case, given the spring rate in both of those is the same, right? Anyway, I decided against going with a heavier switch, in spite of the fact that I normally like typing on greens.
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So I just switched my WASD keys from blues to reds, and so far the only thing I can say is that it's quieter - this should be the case, given the spring rate in both of those is the same, right? Anyway, I decided against going with a heavier switch, in spite of the fact that I normally like typing on greens.
I haven't checked any graphs, but the click activation/edge matters a lot too, you can rest your fingers on blue's, but definitely not red's, the spring seems the same, yet the click friction/edge adds to the force requirement, if I'm not mistaken
If you're using the QWER keys for activations for example, red's are ..., risky
red board + blue macro keys would make sense for a larger spectrum of games tho
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Exactly this. No has any advantage over any other keyboard with respect to switch selection. The only issue that could possibly come up is key rollover. IE trying to game on an M with a game that can realistically require/min max and have to press 5 or 6 keys at once. But this is not a limitation to the switches.
TL:DR THERE IS NO GAMING SWITCH.
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Oh ok sorry dont eat me alive
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Oh ok sorry dont eat me alive
You've been bitten by Geekhack.. now you are knowledgeable.. Go bite others..
There is no cure to our enlightenment.
(http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_116_.gif)
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The heavier the switch the faster it returns. I don't think the weight really affects how quickly most people can press the switch down, but how quickly the switch comes back up is out of the gamer's control.
I call BS. The finger is slower to rise than the spring pushing the slider and any "gains" in speed by increased pushback force are countered by "losses" in increased resistance to downwards movement.
It makes no real difference at all. Whichever suits you better is the one to use.
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Exactly this. No has any advantage over any other keyboard with respect to switch selection. The only issue that could possibly come up is key rollover. IE trying to game on an M with a game that can realistically require/min max and have to press 5 or 6 keys at once. But this is not a limitation to the switches.
TL:DR THERE IS NO GAMING SWITCH.
I mostly agree, but there are some exceptions. I have seen ergo Clears that hung on the return and you run into potential problems (depending on your style) with clicky switches and hysteresis. Other than those issues that pop up sometimes, the best switch for gaming is the one you like best.
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Exactly this. No has any advantage over any other keyboard with respect to switch selection. The only issue that could possibly come up is key rollover. IE trying to game on an M with a game that can realistically require/min max and have to press 5 or 6 keys at once. But this is not a limitation to the switches.
TL:DR THERE IS NO GAMING SWITCH.
I mostly agree, but there are some exceptions. I have seen ergo Clears that hung on the return and you run into potential problems (depending on your style) with clicky switches and hysteresis. Other than those issues that pop up sometimes, the best switch for gaming is the one you like best.
The hanging issue eventually clears up after the switch is broken in.
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Blues are underrated for gaming.
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In my opinion, they are. If you play games that require extremely rapid key inputs that AREN'T double taps, this is quite obvious IMO. Not to say I can't play on heavy boards, I do just fine on any of my Alps which are pretty stiff. But I might've done better on the same switches if they'd have been lighter.
Blues are underrated for gaming.
Blues are overrated in every way including for gaming, IMO :p . I genuinely don't see what the big deal with these switches is.
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The heavier the switch the faster it returns. I don't think the weight really affects how quickly most people can press the switch down, but how quickly the switch comes back up is out of the gamer's control.
I call BS. The finger is slower to rise than the spring pushing the slider and any "gains" in speed by increased pushback force are countered by "losses" in increased resistance to downwards movement.
It makes no real difference at all. Whichever suits you better is the one to use.
Honestly I doubt it makes enough difference to care. I agree with you about using whatever suits you better, and you are definitely right that for most spring weights it'll return more quickly than you can move your finger. However, I will say that when I experimented with lighter springs (like 25-35g) and with magnets the switches were very slow to reset, like 250ms. Once you hit 40-45g (red/blue territory) it resets too quickly for me to estimate. I doubt many people are going to put super light springs in their switches, making this a moot point.
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No. They're worse since you can accidentally press them more easily.
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In my opinion, they are. If you play games that require extremely rapid key inputs that AREN'T double taps, this is quite obvious IMO. Not to say I can't play on heavy boards, I do just fine on any of my Alps which are pretty stiff. But I might've done better on the same switches if they'd have been lighter.
Blues are underrated for gaming.
Blues are overrated in every way including for gaming, IMO :p . I genuinely don't see what the big deal with these switches is.
you can't see it, yet you should be able to hear it, they click :)
jk.
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In my opinion, they are. If you play games that require extremely rapid key inputs that AREN'T double taps, this is quite obvious IMO. Not to say I can't play on heavy boards, I do just fine on any of my Alps which are pretty stiff. But I might've done better on the same switches if they'd have been lighter.
Blues are underrated for gaming.
Blues are overrated in every way including for gaming, IMO :p . I genuinely don't see what the big deal with these switches is.
you can't see it, yet you should be able to hear it, they click :)
jk.
Well... they do make this horrible high-pitched "tack" sound, if that's what you mean.... :p (http://www.animateit.net/data/media/smiley712/smiley-scared005.gif)
Just joking. I happen to find the MX clicky sound irritating and I find the hysteresis irritating, but some love the clickys.
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Assuming logically that you will need to click super fast one would say that the lighter the switch the faster it activates. What are your opinions and experiences. So should one prefer Reds over Blacks or Browns over Clears ?
Reds for gaming, everything else is obsolete.
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I use blacks with Sprit's 85g gold springs. I love heavy switches.
For gaming 85g linear and for typing 85g clicky.
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Sorry about "biting", that was not the intention. My intention was for people in the future that come across this thread in a search. No one switch provides any physical advantage over any other switch. If you browse through gaming competitions enough, you will probably see about ever switch made with the probable exceptions of hall effect and reed switches, but that is just due to availability and difficulty in getting them to work over USB. But even then, there is nothing in the switch that makes them good or bad for gaming. It all comes down to personal preference.
Personally, I game with reds and clears. Reds on WASD and clears everywhere else on my orbweaver. If I could have the orbweaver layout with F style bucking springs, I would game on those.
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No one switch provides any physical advantage over any other switch.
I have no idea about video games – which I play maybe a few hours of per year and certainly not competitively – but for regular typing, the switch makes a noticeable difference for me. Probably at least 20% speed difference (maybe 30%?) between the best and worst switches. Half of that difference is difference in raw typing speed, and the other half is time saved from less typing errors, which some switches make much more common, for me. When you add to that the improved comfort / reduced fatigue and sheer pleasure typing on nice switches, spending some amount of effort finding the right switch is totally worth it. (Of course, around here people spend much more than *some* time and effort.)
To draw reliable general conclusions about specific switches would require a large and well designed scientific study, and I haven’t seen any about this topic. (There are studies, but the ones I’ve read mostly suck.)
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My though from nearly a month's experience:
For short run, the heavier linear switch, the better for faster response, double tapping and less able to mistakenly press keys.
For continuously playing games for hours without taking any break(unhealthy), lighter switches may be better for less stonger hands.
Anyway, I think mouse is more important than keyboard.
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I've seen the best CS players in the world on rubber dome do the most insane things. When they switched over to mech there was no difference in the way they played.
Bottom line is game on what you enjoy to game on. After all gaming is for enjoyment and satisfaction. I prefer reds for gaming. They right to me. Find what feels right to you.
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I've had some pretty amazing fps gaming scores on 2KRO boards.
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clicky switches definitely slow me down in fps games, feels sluggish. tactile seem fine, unless its like what nubbs said with clears returning slowly on lighter springs
But for rts, any switch seems fine.
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I don't think there's really a huge difference when you're playing, except some minor details.
I find heavier switches cause noticeable fatigue after a few hours of gaming (FPS, anyways).
MX Reds are pretty easy to accidentally press adjacent keys... can be extremely inconvenient.
MX Blue/Green have hysteresis that can cause repeats to not register as a new key press.
Buckling springs can make any game feel like a pinball machine. :cool:
I've played CS:GO with all my keyboards and none of them were much different performance-wise beyond the above occurances. I actually prefer gaming with MX Browns though as they are a balance between lightness (low fatigue), quietness, and a hint of tactility to reduce errors and have a little bit of feeling when the actuation occurs.
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Depends what you're doing, I guess, and your expectations.
I just spent the last two and a half hours playing Arkham Asylum on a model f. My hand isn't really tired, though the amount of time I can actually play action games before I get motion sick is limited, so It's possible my hands would be falling off in another hour or so. :p
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Its almost all personal preference. People swear by all kinds of switches.
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Preference mostly but I'd say reds are indeed better for gaming. You can play for longer periods without finger fatigue. I used to play world of warcraft and I would get sore hands after pvping for hours. Once I got a red switch keyboard from blues I never had that problem again.
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Short answer: maybe
Long answer: how heavy handed are you? Do you mash down on your keys like a maniac? If yes, get a heavier switch so you won't accidentally press a key. If you type with feather-light keystrokes, get a lighter switch.
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Completely agree with you.
Not sure how ppl are lead to believe diff switches can make an ultimate difference when it comes to gaming.
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Completely agree with you.
Not sure how ppl are lead to believe diff switches can make an ultimate difference when it comes to gaming.
Re-visit that statement with 200g springs
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I've found tactility to be in the way on some games. Particularly on fighting games and racing games. Some other games that require extremely fast fingerwork are retarded by switches with not-very-clean keyfeel. For the majority of games (and gamers) most types of switches would work just fine though (frankly, rubber domes would be fine for most).
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Completely agree with you.
Not sure how ppl are lead to believe diff switches can make an ultimate difference when it comes to gaming.
Re-visit that statement with 200g springs
You think you're so smart now don'tcha :]
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Completely agree with you.
Not sure how ppl are lead to believe diff switches can make an ultimate difference when it comes to gaming.
Re-visit that statement with 200g springs
Hey now, I game on 500g springs! ;)
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Completely agree with you.
Not sure how ppl are lead to believe diff switches can make an ultimate difference when it comes to gaming.
Re-visit that statement with 200g springs
Hey now, I game on 500g springs! ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/wRVIN7k.jpg)
Sup?
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From what i can tell, from personal experience, there really ins't too big of a difference between tactile and linear keys when it comes to gaming.
For light keys, you may accidentally trigger certain key press if you are not careful, but that's the general nature of light keys.
a few things to note though.
1. I found heavier keys (cherry black for example) may cause more fatigue on long sessions compare to lighting switches.
2. The noise, if you are on VOIP programs often, then I would advise you to stay away from loud clicking switches, (ex. cherry blues).
Especially when you have a desk mounted microphone instead of head set.
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
This is correct, but you should consider fatigue. I experience a fair bit of discomfort gaming with 55g Topre that I don't get at all on MX Brown.
I also find certain keyboards make me prone to press adjacent keys accidentally, which every now and again can cause a problem in a game.
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Personally, I found gaming on reds much less enjoyable than gaming on browns, blues, clears and novatouch topre. But then again, I hated them for typing too. I just can't stand linear switches for whatever reason.
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Assuming logically that you will need to click super fast one would say that the lighter the switch the faster it activates. What are your opinions and experiences. So should one prefer Reds over Blacks or Browns over Clears ?
Depends on the game I guess, if mis-clicks could have dire costs, blue's could be better, but if you're just spamming wasd like a buffoon, red's are probably better
I get all the switches, but I still don't get browns, they seem very irritating to me, they're like reds that have something stuck in them
if you mis click. its not the switches. its the "so-called gamer's" fault for being a bad gamer. lolz.
pretty sure If im already good at a game. a ****ty keyboard wouldn't make me a ****ty player.
Just saying. switches don't enhance or decline a person's gameplay.
not the slightest.
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who knows?? i think it is just personal preference... I have had a MX-Brown WASD V1 and a Rosewill RK-9000RE (red) for 2.5~years I find both enjoyable for gaming.. I just got a Filco TKL MT2 (mx-red) I like it for gaming and typing.
I personally have no issues with accidentally key-presses with my fingers resting on the keys... but other may??? I don't know, I personally just think it is a matter of what a given person prefers. I really don't understand people that insist whatever switch type they like is right and insist others must be crazy if they like something else... there is no right or wrong choice there is just a choice for what you like.
lol... ok pretty funny I did accidentally start hitting the "D" key while typing that..maybe I was thinking about it too much or something ..really the first time (just about) with either of my MX-RED keyboards.
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who knows?? i think it is just personal preference... I have had a MX-Brown WASD V1 and a Rosewill RK-9000RE (red) for 2.5~years I find both enjoyable for gaming.. I just got a Filco TKL MT2 (mx-red) I like it for gaming and typing.
I personally have no issues with accidentally key-presses with my fingers resting on the keys... but other may??? I don't know, I personally just think it is a matter of what a given person prefers. I really don't understand people that insist whatever switch type they like is right and insist others must be crazy if they like something else... there is no right or wrong choice there is just a choice for what you like.
lol... ok pretty funny I did accidentally start hitting the "D" key while typing that..maybe I was thinking about it too much or something ..really the first time (just about) with either of my MX-RED keyboards.
I'd smoke you in CS GO any day using a 2$ membrane chiclet keyboard made by apple while you can use the best mech board money will buy.
If switches truly matter than, u can be the worlds best gamer buy buying your best switch within your preferences right?
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I'd smoke you in CS GO any day using a 2$ membrane chiclet keyboard made by apple while you can use the best mech board money will buy.
If switches truly matter than, u can be the worlds best gamer buy buying your best switch within your preferences right?
I can use a $5 soldering iron to do electronics work but it sure makes life easier to use a professional iron. Same goes for any tool, keyboards included.
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No, it doesn't matter at all..
People greatly over-estimate the importance of keyboard with respect to gaming in general..
There is no such thing as a gaming-keyboard, they just made that up to sell you more keyboards.
Exactly this. No has any advantage over any other keyboard with respect to switch selection. The only issue that could possibly come up is key rollover. IE trying to game on an M with a game that can realistically require/min max and have to press 5 or 6 keys at once. But this is not a limitation to the switches.
TL:DR THERE IS NO GAMING SWITCH.
Try convincing the folks over at the overclockers.net forums of that. :)) :)) :))
The things people over there complain about to believe how much "better gamers" they'd be if so-and-so products had so-and-so features. :blank: :blank: :blank:
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Depends on who you talk to. I rarely see it on OCN.
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There's no switch out there, that'll make someone a better gamer.
Fact.
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The model F switch will definitely make you a better gamer.
There's 2 reasons for that:
1: It's the best switch. Fact.
2: It comes with a keyboard made to intimidate your opponent with it's heavy metal plate. Some models even go for full stainless steel case and some are made to be an aircraft carrier. Fact.
No one can challenge these facts since they are facts.
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There's no switch out there, that'll make someone a better gamer.
Fact.
Not even RGB ones?
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There's no switch out there, that'll make someone a better gamer.
Fact.
What, ALL switches in existence work IDENTICALLY WELL for EVERY SINGLE GAMER EVER? :p
That's almost a dictatorial statement :p . Sorry mate, but get serious :p .
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I'm going to HULK SMASH the keys anyway, so it might as well be with a sturdy spring behind it. At least I'll get the benefit of a slightly faster reset.
Honestly though, if there's a difference it's so small as to be insignificant. I game on Browns right now. I have Blacks, Clears, and Reds available but it's all the same to me.
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Actually, I think keys with shorter travel are better performers for gaming. I play a lot of games that needs precise animation canceling, and I found that keys with shorter travel and a contact point at the bottom of the press gives you the most control and speed.
Also, I found ghosting to be most helpful for one of my games :3 This is because ghosting automatically releases a keypress when another one is pressed with no overlap and no delay - which is incredibly hard to do manually (took me 2 years of almost daily practice to do consistently-of course only then I figured out this cheat :))).
So your typical laptop scissor switches are great! - except they feel like crap.
For most games though, I don't think the type of switch matters as far as player performance goes. I do find clicky switches annoying when recording a game though.
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Actually, I think keys with shorter travel are better performers for gaming. I play a lot of games that needs precise animation canceling, and I found that keys with shorter travel and a contact point at the bottom of the press gives you the most control and speed.
So your typical laptop scissor switches are great! - except they feel like crap.
For most games though, I don't think the type of switch matters as far as player performance goes. I do find clicky switches annoying when recording a game though.
Your mileage may vary.
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Honestly I often game with whatever keyboard is plugged in at the moment (lately just BF4, fyi), and I honestly don't even think about the switches while I'm in the middle of a game. Sometimes I almost feel like heavier switches prevent me from accidentally hitting the wrong keys though, so if I had to give an answer I'd probably say I'd prefer something like greens or clears over reds or browns. Totally personal preference though, having a heavy switch would probably really bother some people trying to game.
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Honestly I often game with whatever keyboard is plugged in at the moment (lately just BF4, fyi), and I honestly don't even think about the switches while I'm in the middle of a game. Sometimes I almost feel like heavier switches prevent me from accidentally hitting the wrong keys though, so if I had to give an answer I'd probably say I'd prefer something like greens or clears over reds or browns. Totally personal preference though, having a heavy switch would probably really bother some people trying to game.
Me.
I find heavy switches very distracting while gaming. No idea how to explain it but I'm very conscious of how hard I have to press a keyswitch when I'm playing with heavy switches. It pulls me out of the immersion a lot. Typing I don't notice the difference between heavy and light switches nearly as much however.
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Honestly I often game with whatever keyboard is plugged in at the moment (lately just BF4, fyi), and I honestly don't even think about the switches while I'm in the middle of a game. Sometimes I almost feel like heavier switches prevent me from accidentally hitting the wrong keys though, so if I had to give an answer I'd probably say I'd prefer something like greens or clears over reds or browns. Totally personal preference though, having a heavy switch would probably really bother some people trying to game.
Me.
I find heavy switches very distracting while gaming. No idea how to explain it but I'm very conscious of how hard I have to press a keyswitch when I'm playing with heavy switches. It pulls me out of the immersion a lot. Typing I don't notice the difference between heavy and light switches nearly as much however.
And honestly you are probably a much better gamer than I. For me its just something I'll do for a few minutes to waste time, so I don't really get into caring very specifically about my switches for it.