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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: mougrim on Sun, 22 March 2015, 11:08:28

Title: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Sun, 22 March 2015, 11:08:28
I was browsing some retro-computing sites, and lookie what I got here...

(http://phantom.sannata.ru/konkurs/2010/img/kt1011/001.JPG)

(http://phantom.sannata.ru/konkurs/2010/img/kt1011/003.jpg)

(http://phantom.sannata.ru/konkurs/2010/img/kt1011/005.JPG)

Real, honest-to-good capacitive buckling spring keyboard made in USSR. Do want, althought I doubt many are in usable state on even exists right now.

http://phantom.sannata.ru/konkurs/2010/kt1011.shtml

feature=player_embedded

Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: Ludovician on Sun, 22 March 2015, 11:16:37
Now we just need to track them all down.
Title: Re: ÄÂÊ-3Ø (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: 0100010 on Sun, 22 March 2015, 11:51:08
Wow - great find.
Title: Re: ÄÂÊ-3Ø (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Sun, 22 March 2015, 12:29:41
Quote from: 0100010 on Sun, 22 March 2015, 11:51:08
Wow - great find.

Heh, Not mine, I afraid... Computer with this keyboard was a part of networked computer system for educational institutions. Actually, it was server - that's why it, I suppose, it will be far more rare than even Kishsaver. But I'm try to find one... just maybe I'll be lucky :)
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: AKIMbO on Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:19:15
So tasty...I'll take 20.

Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: neverused on Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:34:19
In Russia, spring buckle you.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: invariance on Sun, 22 March 2015, 16:26:44
Quote from: neverused on Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:34:19
In Russia, spring buckle you.

lol

dah!
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 22 March 2015, 16:27:17
Mmmm, nice. Those legends are interesting, as well as the profile of the caps.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: Den441 on Sun, 22 March 2015, 18:40:45
I have a soft spot for cold war, soviet era technology. This would go great with my nixie tube clock. :)
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 22 March 2015, 19:48:44
That's a very close ripoff for soviet KBs, usually they stray a bit further from the original.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 22 March 2015, 23:36:26
The Soviet 8088-alike machines I've seen are interesting.  Most other countries did at least some machines that were fairly slavish copies of the IBM standard, but the Soviet machines had things like "expansion slots that didn't require the case to be opened to be accessed, but conversely, didn't fit a conventional ISA card."
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: Ludovician on Mon, 23 March 2015, 00:27:50
Quote from: neverused on Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:34:19
In Russia, spring buckle you.

That sounds very painful, actually.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Mon, 23 March 2015, 01:37:42
Quote from: katushkin on Sun, 22 March 2015, 16:27:17
Mmmm, nice. Those legends are interesting, as well as the profile of the caps.

So far as I can see, layout is not QWERTY - although Cyrillic layout is common.

This DVK computer wasn't even CP-compatible, by the way. Nosiree, it was PDP-11 clone!
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Mon, 23 March 2015, 01:41:33
Found more about this keyboard. It was called МС 7004 (MS 7004)

Photo of keyboard with keycaps on and keycaps removed:

(https://71.img.avito.st/1280x960/357352371.jpg)

As you see, no Enter key on alphanumerics block at all - the only Enter is on the Numpad area.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: blastoid on Tue, 24 March 2015, 08:30:27
I'm really intrigued by this keyboard, especially the layout. I've been researching it a bit and found a couple better photos (Specifically this one (http://gryphon1.users.photofile.ru/photo/gryphon1/96693357/xlarge/131374971.jpg) and tried my best to work out all the key labels and build it in a layout editor.

Let me know what you think, or if I got anything wrong:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b080e118189115a52bcd10932dbaf39d

Ultimately, I'd like to convert it as close as possible to ANSI and buy some custom caps from WASD. Would it be popular enough for a GB?

Edit: forgot numpad labels:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/6310d8cf2bc95b546ebe95d1bd49204a
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 24 March 2015, 11:31:56
Whoa...I wonder if there were any other BS clones now!
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: blastoid on Tue, 24 March 2015, 12:08:21
Quote from: blastoid on Tue, 24 March 2015, 08:30:27
I'm really intrigued by this keyboard, especially the layout. I've been researching it a bit and found a couple better photos (Specifically this one (http://gryphon1.users.photofile.ru/photo/gryphon1/96693357/xlarge/131374971.jpg) and tried my best to work out all the key labels and build it in a layout editor.

Let me know what you think, or if I got anything wrong:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b080e118189115a52bcd10932dbaf39d

Ultimately, I'd like to convert it as close as possible to ANSI and buy some custom caps from WASD. Would it be popular enough for a GB?

Edit: forgot numpad labels:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/6310d8cf2bc95b546ebe95d1bd49204a

Ok, done!

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/38b06e0c74d6cb26da902c56ba839f1f

I stole some of the other labels from this board: http://www.leningrad.su/museum/show_big.php?n=1191

No clue what any of them mean, lol.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:53:19
Quote from: blastoid on Tue, 24 March 2015, 12:08:21
Quote from: blastoid on Tue, 24 March 2015, 08:30:27
I'm really intrigued by this keyboard, especially the layout. I've been researching it a bit and found a couple better photos (Specifically this one (http://gryphon1.users.photofile.ru/photo/gryphon1/96693357/xlarge/131374971.jpg) and tried my best to work out all the key labels and build it in a layout editor.

Let me know what you think, or if I got anything wrong:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b080e118189115a52bcd10932dbaf39d

Ultimately, I'd like to convert it as close as possible to ANSI and buy some custom caps from WASD. Would it be popular enough for a GB?

Edit: forgot numpad labels:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/6310d8cf2bc95b546ebe95d1bd49204a

Ok, done!

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/38b06e0c74d6cb26da902c56ba839f1f

I stole some of the other labels from this board: http://www.leningrad.su/museum/show_big.php?n=1191

No clue what any of them mean, lol.

If you curious about some of them, I can enlighten you, so ask away.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: TopreFan333 on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:56:42
Quote from: AKIMbO on Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:19:15
So tasty...I'll take 20.

You just know there's a heap of them rotting in a forgotten warehouse somewhere.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Wed, 25 March 2015, 05:54:16
Quote from: dchadwick on Tue, 24 March 2015, 15:56:42
Quote from: AKIMbO on Sun, 22 March 2015, 14:19:15
So tasty...I'll take 20.

You just know there's a heap of them rotting in a forgotten warehouse somewhere.

I'm sure about it :)
Title: Re: ÄÂÊ-3Ø (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: chyros on Wed, 25 March 2015, 06:13:19
Iz byootiful technology, glory to the Motherland!

Wonder how this compares to an M :) .
Title: Re: ÄÂÊ-3Ø (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: Nai_Calus on Wed, 25 March 2015, 07:30:21
Quote from: chyros on Wed, 25 March 2015, 06:13:19
Iz byootiful technology, glory to the Motherland!

Wonder how this compares to an M :) .

Be more accurate to wonder how it compares to an F. ;P
Title: Re: ÄÂÊ-3Ø (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: chyros on Wed, 25 March 2015, 08:01:46
Quote from: Nai_Calus on Wed, 25 March 2015, 07:30:21
Quote from: chyros on Wed, 25 March 2015, 06:13:19
Iz byootiful technology, glory to the Motherland!

Wonder how this compares to an M :) .

Be more accurate to wonder how it compares to an F. ;P
Haha, yeah, that's true, but then again, I don't have an F so it wouldn't make sense to me at least xD .
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 26 March 2015, 08:40:42
Hmm... I found one for sale in Russia, for about 20 bucks. Anyone interested?

By the way, it works through RS-232. 8N1.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: blastoid on Thu, 26 March 2015, 08:50:54
Me!
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:11:31
Quote from: blastoid on Thu, 26 March 2015, 08:50:54
Me!

Here you are:

https://www.avito.ru/ust-labinsk/tovary_dlya_kompyutera/klaviatura_ms-7004_ot_dvk33m2_535906415
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: blastoid on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:28:17
Quote from: mougrim on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:11:31
Here you are:

https://www.avito.ru/ust-labinsk/tovary_dlya_kompyutera/klaviatura_ms-7004_ot_dvk33m2_535906415

Unfortunately, I can't get the captcha to work to save my life:
(http://imgur.com/K91DNu3.png?1)
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 26 March 2015, 14:41:47
Quote from: blastoid on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:28:17
Quote from: mougrim on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:11:31
Here you are:

https://www.avito.ru/ust-labinsk/tovary_dlya_kompyutera/klaviatura_ms-7004_ot_dvk33m2_535906415

Unfortunately, I can't get the captcha to work to save my life:
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/K91DNu3.png?1)


Hmm, it seems you got captcha right. What it says when you try to send message?
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: chyros on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:32:28
Quote from: mougrim on Thu, 26 March 2015, 14:41:47
Quote from: blastoid on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:28:17
Quote from: mougrim on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:11:31
Here you are:

https://www.avito.ru/ust-labinsk/tovary_dlya_kompyutera/klaviatura_ms-7004_ot_dvk33m2_535906415

Unfortunately, I can't get the captcha to work to save my life:
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/K91DNu3.png?1)


Hmm, it seems you got captcha right. What it says when you try to send message?
Maybe use the keys that share the same position on Russian keyboards?
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: Chromako on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:46:47
A Communist Model F! I say we paint it red!


USA! USA! USA!  :p
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: chyros on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:47:28
Quote from: Chromako on Thu, 26 March 2015, 15:46:47
A Communist Model F! I say we paint it red!


USA! USA! USA!  :p
Oh YEAH! And a yellow hammer and sickle on top! :D
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:44:43
Quote from: CPTBadAss on Tue, 24 March 2015, 11:31:56
Whoa...I wonder if there were any other BS clones now!
ya sheng has been "known" for a while. alps/brother aren't really "clones" and AT&T is licesnsed. I don't know of any others (besides this).
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 27 March 2015, 01:15:31
Wow, that is some Soviet Greatness right there! :p

That said, Mougrim, are you still buying things from Russia? You mean even with the ongoing war you people are still doing routine business for (non essential) items?
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Fri, 27 March 2015, 08:58:54
Quote from: berserkfan on Fri, 27 March 2015, 01:15:31
Wow, that is some Soviet Greatness right there! :p

That said, Mougrim, are you still buying things from Russia? You mean even with the ongoing war you people are still doing routine business for (non essential) items?

Yeah, this is a great-looking board.

Nah, I'm not. But yes, we are. Cuz we're still re-routing our economy to West. And will be for next 10 years or so.

Anyway, can't find any on this boards in Ukraine :(
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:01:40
Quote from: dorkvader on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:44:43
Quote from: CPTBadAss on Tue, 24 March 2015, 11:31:56
Whoa...I wonder if there were any other BS clones now!
ya sheng has been "known" for a while. alps/brother aren't really "clones" and AT&T is licesnsed. I don't know of any others (besides this).

I still would love to get my hands on an AT&T board. Those are fun :).
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Sat, 28 March 2015, 05:24:38
OK, so I didn't found this KB (yet), but I found Soviet-era magnetic reed keyboard from videoterminal.

http://aukro.ua/raritet-klaviatura-kt-u1-ot-terminala-vta-2000-i5197003763.html

Looks kinda cool... and costs about 15 bucks :) Maybe I...
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: tkim on Sat, 28 March 2015, 07:29:22
great find ;)
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Sat, 28 March 2015, 13:05:39
Found manual for this keyboard. Well, it pretty good. As Soviet computer sustems were supposed to be serviced on site, manual tells you all you need to know for it.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 31 March 2015, 20:44:02
Quote from: CPTBadAss on Fri, 27 March 2015, 09:01:40
Quote from: dorkvader on Thu, 26 March 2015, 17:44:43
Quote from: CPTBadAss on Tue, 24 March 2015, 11:31:56
Whoa...I wonder if there were any other BS clones now!
ya sheng has been "known" for a while. alps/brother aren't really "clones" and AT&T is licesnsed. I don't know of any others (besides this).

I still would love to get my hands on an AT&T board. Those are fun :).

I decided I no longer need mine.  I put it up for trade (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69164.msg1701181#msg1701181), but may end up selling it if nothing happens with it.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 02 April 2015, 06:21:49
Yes! I got myself one. Very dirty, a bit rusty, without cable, with some sticky keys and with broken cable socket, but it was for 7 buck, so... I thought "Why not".

So I guess I'll need some help with restoration, and if anyone can tell me how to remove rust from metal plate, it'll be appreciated.

Will post some photos later. For now - it definitely a buckling spring keyboard, clicky, with that "ping" that IBM Model F sadly famous with.

P.S. Found some old articles about this keyboard. Seems it possible to program built-in controller to use XT protocol. Will need some further research....
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: Ludovician on Thu, 02 April 2015, 07:09:27
Oh, awesome.

I for one would be interested in hearing a comparison between that and your Model F once you've done some restoration on it.
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 02 April 2015, 09:15:59
OK, so, while I'm getting case and keycaps cleaned, let's begin...

1. Keycaps and springs.

Made from white (heavy yellowed) and grey plastic.

Mount looks very similar (but in no case identical) to IBM single-piece keycaps. So IBM keycaps won't fit on it (maybe after some modification...) On the picture left one is the IBM-style Unicomp keycap, right one is keycap from this keyboard.

Unlike IBM Model F and Model M, where keycaps are pushing on "bare" spring, connected to flippy, here we can see some transparent plastic "tongue" on the top of the spring. I think it was supposed to make pressing of keys more "stable".

As two springs were detached from flippies, I made some photos. Looks similar to IBM ones, but I'm not "pro".

To be continued...
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: chyros on Thu, 02 April 2015, 09:20:31
To remove rust spots; use some sanding paper or rust remover gel and afterwards, finish with an anti-rust product, of which there are several available. Done properly, should make the plate look much better :) . Definitely put up a video demonstrating the sound, I'm very curious about what that thing sounds like :) .
Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 02 April 2015, 10:46:59
2. Plate and barrels.

Painted black and a bit rusty upper plate, between upper plate and cirquit board sandwiched foam mat (as far as I can see, desintegrated).

Title: Re: ДВК-3Ш (DVK-3SH) keyboard - Buckling Spring a la USSR
Post by: mougrim on Thu, 02 April 2015, 11:00:01
Quote from: chyros on Thu, 02 April 2015, 09:20:31
To remove rust spots; use some sanding paper or rust remover gel and afterwards, finish with an anti-rust product, of which there are several available. Done properly, should make the plate look much better :) . Definitely put up a video demonstrating the sound, I'm very curious about what that thing sounds like :) .

And after this I'll paint it red :)

OK. For now I'm still trying to understand how to remove bottom half of a case :)

But when it will be fit to type on, I will :)

Now I wonder where I can get foam mat to tut to size...