geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: erricrice on Fri, 04 September 2009, 12:53:54
-
So today I was doing a general feel and speed test for all of my keyboards side by side. I found that I am in speed: BS>ALPS Whites>ALPS Blacks>Cherry Blues with a significant dropoff at the cherry blues(>5wpm whereas the others are all within 1-2 of each other). Anyways, back to my point.
Anyone had this same problem or have any ideas why it might be?
-
I have the opposite problem. If I change from my DAS to a BS board, I find it very hard work. I miss keys and it can ache. They are so different I don't think you can fine tune yourself to both at once.
-
That may be the problem more than anything else, is switching from one to the other. I haven't typed on anything lighter than my Model M for about 2 months, so I have a feeling that's it....
-
Tell me, did you bottom out a lot on the Cherry blues? If so, it could be that you press the keys too hard and make your fingers absorb the impact force. This of course isn't so good for your fingers and by extension your forearms.
On the other hand, switching from a low-force switch to something like BS probably causes some strain because your fingers haven't had a workout for so long.
More off this stuff can be found Tim Tyler's My keyboard (http://mykeyboard.co.uk/keyswitches/) page.
I would call him a bit of a nutjob though, moving to a switch you can activate almost by looking at it...
-
Why should this be a Das specific issue?
-
The problem with having more than one type of switch is that you can't really just instantly switch from one switch type to another...you have to adjust to that switch type in order to be able to type accurately, and comfortably on that keyboard.
-
Maybe your muscles can ache when expecting a certain amount of force or resistance and not get it. For example; as a kid, did you ever find that your arm gets more tired throwing a tennis ball around than it did for a baseball? Even though the tennis ball is much lighter, it always felt a lot harder on the muscles to throw. At least that's was how I always felt.
-
Why should this be a Das specific issue?
Because it only happened with the DAS out of 5 keyboards. I don't really think it's something they did wrong in designing it, but it only happened with the DAS.
The problem with having more than one type of switch is that you can't really just instantly switch from one switch type to another...you have to adjust to that switch type in order to be able to type accurately, and comfortably on that keyboard.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking more than anything. I really didn't bottom out too much on the DAS compared to others, but I'm quite certain that I'm very much not used to it anymore.
Maybe your muscles can ache when expecting a certain amount of force or resistance and not get it. For example; as a kid, did you ever find that your arm gets more tired throwing a tennis ball around than it did for a baseball? Even though the tennis ball is much lighter, it always felt a lot harder on the muscles to throw. At least that's was how I always felt.
That is true. That's really what I'm leaning toward is just a difference in feel. I was just wondering if anyone had had the same problem with the DAS. I don't really think it's something that's inherently wrong with the keyboard, but I just wanted to see what others thought.
-
If you are a heavy typer, Blue Cherrys are not exactly ideal. I'm a reasonably light typer, so switches like Blue Cherrys probably suit me the best. I still prefer typing on my BS board, but it can be kinda painful switching to BS after using Blue Cherrys for a while.
-
Why should this be a Das specific issue?
seconded.
Your title is pointedly biased for reasons I can only interpret as dramatic flare.
I wouldn't want my keyboards names in a title like that, particularly with the way google indexes web forums. Twice over, since it's a rather serious accusation to handle for a keyboard company. I'm all for open discussion and honesty, but flippant remarks do cause damage.
-
In fairness, it's not as if we haven't destroyed the reputation of the Das enough already with all the reported cases of controller shenanigans. But the logic in blaming the Das for this specific problem is misleading.
-
In fairness, it's not as if we haven't destroyed the reputation of the Das enough already with all the reported cases of controller shenanigans. But the logic in blaming the Das for this specific problem is misleading.
well look, the internet is full of flippant remarks - about people as well as products, all getting indexed on google. At some point we have to rely on an internet-savvy generation that will read the comments in depth if they are actually going to buy the product (or vote for the candidate) and be able to make up their own minds.
In other words - flippant remarks destroying reputations itself isnt a keyboard specific issue... I dont see how it'll be avoided really these days. I remember reading an article in the new york times a few years back about this problem. People complaining that when others google their name they can read all kinds of crap most of which is untrue or just rumor and opinion and what could they do about it? The article said for the most part all most people can do is put up their own website with their side of the story. This probably applies for products too.
Also supposedly under google, home pages (and likely product/corporate pages too) rise up the rankings (its designed that way, supposedly).
So that way one can get their side of the story out and thats pretty much all you can do, according to the times article anyway.
Especially on a chatty wide ranging forum like this with so many individual opinions and needs and wants all being expressed simultaneously and freely, not sure there is really any other solution.
Also, for all the hysteria on this site about the das controller, I'm not sure we really impacted their business. They seem to be doing fine and plenty of people bought a das even after knowing about the transposing problem. It was a legitimate issue to be aired though.
In fairness to erricrice, he did repeatedly say in the comments that he doesnt think its a das design issue at all.
-
The other thing is, if this site became influential at all, it did so because of this kind of openness in the way everyone could express their most intimate and minute feelings about various aspects of keyboard technology.
One of the nice things about that kind of openness is that its self correcting, slowly but surely. Not unlike wikipedia. Rumors get corrected, views get opposed. This thread itself is an example of that, with erricrice's observation being counteracted almost immediately.
So I guess i'm one of those who says the solution to problems that arise with openness, is always more openness not less -- to put it in a philosophical way.
erricrice had to clarify what he meant in the title; if you ask me thats a sign of the successes of this site. We cant be responsible if some superficial bozo swings by here, reads the title, and bases a purchase decision solely on that, can we? There will always be superficial people like that out there, whether or not all of us start worrying about how our titles are coming across, I think.
And of course the vendors have a role in those corrections, and we're glad to have them here to provide those corrections. An open system works for everyone.
-
erricrice: You moved to increasingly lighter keyboards. I did the same thing, but did not encounter the same problem. However, I did not spend a huge amount of time one each keyboard as I moved along to test other switches. This may be why. I would suggest that you give each keyboard sometimes. Each switch type demand a different kind of typing. You will not notice the "good" of each keyboard unless you spend some time with it. I personally can feel a huge difference in each switch.
That said, sometimes you just cannot get the same performace with a particular keyboard. It's not a design flaw, just that you and the keyboard just are not made for each other. As much as I like my ABS M1, it's the one on which I'm the slowest even if I gave it a lot of time. The bonding factor was instant on the blue Cherries and also on the brown Cherries. Even here, after spending some time with the brown cherries, I need to give some time to the blue cherries before I can get back to where I was with them. I would make quite a few typos before I'm up to speed on the blue Cherries again. Just my opinion.
-
seconded.
Your title is pointedly biased for reasons I can only interpret as dramatic flare.
I wouldn't want my keyboards names in a title like that, particularly with the way google indexes web forums. Twice over, since it's a rather serious accusation to handle for a keyboard company. I'm all for open discussion and honesty, but flippant remarks do cause damage.
Hey now, I understand what you mean, but that is why I put the question mark at the end of the title and explained exactly what I was talking about in the post. Let's not go accusing people of things they didn't do please.
...
In fairness to erricrice, he did repeatedly say in the comments that he doesnt think its a das design issue at all.
Thank you.
Whole point being to ask if anyone had a similar problem(again the reason for the question mark).
-
erricrice: You moved to increasingly lighter keyboards. I did the same thing, but did not encounter the same problem. However, I did not spend a huge amount of time one each keyboard as I moved along to test other switches. This may be why. I would suggest that you give each keyboard sometimes. Each switch type demand a different kind of typing. You will not notice the "good" of each keyboard unless you spend some time with it. I personally can feel a huge difference in each switch.
That said, sometimes you just cannot get the same performace with a particular keyboard. It's not a design flaw, just that you and the keyboard just are not made for each other. As much as I like my ABS M1, it's the one on which I'm the slowest even if I gave it a lot of time. The bonding factor was instant on the blue Cherries and also on the brown Cherries. Even here, after spending some time with the brown cherries, I need to give some time to the blue cherries before I can get back to where I was with them. I would make quite a few typos before I'm up to speed on the blue Cherries again. Just my opinion.
Actually, I started with the DAS about 6 months ago and have moved to increasingly heavy keyboards(Black ALPS then BS then White ALPS) and have increased my typing speed significantly since going to BS specifically. After that I could type much faster on any keyboards. I'm not expecting to be able to type exactly the same on a specific keyboard right away, especially after typing on 4 other keyboards that are very different. I was only commenting on the fact that I only hurt after using one of them. I don't consider typing on them slower a design flaw, it's only personal preference and the way my hands work that determines that.
I always give my keyboards at least a week before I really make a decision on them(I don't need a whole lot of time to get used to them) but since I have been typing on BS, I have noticed that I have started to like black ALPS a lot better on my M1, and I believe that this is because my fingers are getting stronger and more able to deal with the heavier switches on the M1. Starting on light switches I guess was my problem, because as soon as I got to heavier keys, my typing speed went up about 20 wpm almost instantly. Interesting stuff really.
-
I always say that finding the perfect keyboard is really an inward journey where you find out about your own likes and dislikes and habits. :) Kind of zen, huh? :)
-
Switching around 5 keyboards every couple of minutes, doing typing tests under pressure with each and wondering about spasms in your extremities? I don't think so.