geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: nubbinator on Wed, 01 April 2015, 22:02:56
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I'm still working on my prototypes to see if the model is viable, but before I go any further, I wanted to see if anyone else was interested.
I have both Tactile and Linear Hi-Tek switches, no Clicky.
Metal 3D printed:
(http://i.imgur.com/MA8eECk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/m61pgsd.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/y05Hxi5.png)
These won't be cheap. In simple steel versions, the price ranges from $30-35 just for the printing, not counting the switch, any included accessories, and shipping. It might get cheaper if multiple holders are made at the same time (it generally is), but I can't say what kind of price difference it would be yet. I wouldn't trust other plastic materials, but the ones that can print in acceptable tolerances are half the price if you wanted to give them a shot.
Laser Cut/Water Cut/CNCed
(http://i.imgur.com/CIChuWg.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/UU4RY4C.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/hDV4T7l.jpg)
The cost of this is highly contingent upon material, cutting method, and finish (if applicable). Acrylic would be the cheapest while powder coated steel or anodized aluminum would add a bit to the cost even if the middle were to remain acrylic. If the middle isn't acrylic, the middle piece would likely have to be waterjet cut or milled due to the thickness.
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You're putting this up while the GH61 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70551.0) GB is going on?
Wow. Be more considerate.
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You're putting this up while the GH61 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70551.0) GB is going on?
Wow. Be more considerate.
The difference is I'm being serious about this. I'm just waiting to order my prototype until after I confirm that my other projects work so I can save on shipping when I order my Alps to MX converters.
(http://i.imgur.com/ireiYlK.png)
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If you're actually serious about this then count me in.
Although your timing is a bit terrible. Had me confused for a moment.
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If you're actually serious about this then count me in.
Although your timing is a bit terrible. Had me confused for a moment.
Yeah, I am being serious and it is terrible timing. I just wanted to get feelers out while I was thinking about it.
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I got some space invader switches from fohat a while back with the intention of doing keychains, just haven't had time/space until I get moved.
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Are you not going to have that baller engraving done on the back of the CNC version?
It would definitely cost more but it would be awesome. I think more people would rather have a CNCd keychain rather than a printed one as well.
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CNC would be costly, but it's an option. And if people want the engraving, it could definitely be set up and done.
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I'm supposed to be getting a Shapeways package on Friday. As soon as I get that and verify my prototypes work, I'll be printing a prototype keychain out of steel for this.
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This is cool! I probably won't be participating, but I think it's really neat and something a lot of folks will like!
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Looking forward to seeing how this turns out
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I like this. Never even used an NMB Hi-Tek board, but it looks fun. :)
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Really like the looks of the CNCed & Laser/Water Cut version Nubbs!
The Acrylic sandwiched between two aluminum plates style looks really nice, and kinda reminds me of GONs cases.
Could polycarbonate possibly be an alternative for acrylic as it is a lot stronger and scratch resistant from what I understand?
I guess it would probably be more expensive to machine then acrylic, but it could allow for a fully frosted clear versions as well...
Also I really prefer the cord/ring mount on the printed version, but I guess it would interfere with top and bottom plate screws?
Im wondering if a very simple solution, like having just one hole drilled then lead a single paracord thru and secure it with a knot
so it simply can't pull back could work by any chance.
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Fun keyboards and switches. Depending on price, I would love one.
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I'll see if polycarb is available.
There's really no good way to do the 3D printed hole on the laser or water cut version unless you were willing to pay cnc costs, were okay with bonded acrylic or polycarb, and/or were ok with hand drilled holes.
Fun keyboards and switches. Depending on price, I would love one.
I'm trying to do just a little better than breaking even with my costs including prototypes. I'm not out to make a wad if cash.
The 3D printed one will be pricey, but it's metal. The cost breakdown is:
- $30-33 to print in steel, insane amounts for other metals. $15-30 to print in various plastics.
-$5 to ship from shapeways. Per unit cost decreases as mite are ordered or is combined with any projects I may be working on.
- $1 a switch. I rounded up since I doubt there will be enough to cover the cost of the board for me if I split the cost per switch evenly for total present on the board. There will be a premium if you want the a special switch since each board only has one or two different ones.
-$2.50 reshipping
- PayPal fees
So I'll say a steel one is ~$40 unless a two part one could be machined for less.
The laser jet or water jet ones should be dramatically cheaper. I think the per unit cost at Big Blue Saw was $4-7 each if I bought 10. I need to get a more accurate quote though. Hardware is ~$1 a unit if there are twelve, higher if less. Anodization or powder coating would have a significant price impact and I can't guesstimate a quote.
So guesstimate would be $12-20 for the laser cut/water cut version.
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CNC would probably be much better.
Much more precise and uses more quality material.
The fact that it's also cheaper just seals the deal.
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I'm a sucker for switch testers. Nice work man.
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CNC would probably be much better.
Much more precise and uses more quality material.
The fact that it's also cheaper just seals the deal.
You do know that CNC (computer numeric control) is just a process right? You can CNC mill things like acrylic and polycarb as well as metals like steel and aluminum. You can also use CNC with lathes and other machine tools. Just because something is "CNC" doesn't mean it's a higher quality material.
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CNC would probably be much better.
Much more precise and uses more quality material.
The fact that it's also cheaper just seals the deal.
Not sure where you're getting that CNC would be cheaper. If anything, I would expect CNC to be dramatically more expensive. It's only laser and water cut that are cheaper.
There would be zero difference in materials available most likely between CNC and laser and/or water jet cut. The main differences would be price and tolerances and the potential for a side cutout which would also mean the center piece would have to be tapped for the screws holding the parts together. Water jet and laser have slightly looser tolerances, but an overall cheaper keyring. With laser and water jet cut, the middle piece could even be resin impregnated wood and if people wanted to get really fancy (and pay for it), I could even look at resin and burl blanks and see if they could be cut.
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I'll see if polycarb is available.
There's really no good way to do the 3D printed hole on the laser or water cut version unless you were willing to pay cnc costs, were okay with bonded acrylic or polycarb, and/or were ok with hand drilled holes.
I see how the 3d printed hole is not possible in a laser/water cut design, and cnc increases price quite a lot.
Did you consider moving the ring latch to be part of the bottom metal plate rather then the acrylic part btw?
I don't mind it too much, but I'm not a huge fan of the big ring latch thingy...
Moving it to a metal layer would make it much thinner, and (depending on which metal)
maybe even allow for a smaller latch shape while still maintaining enough strength, right?
Will it be Hi-Tek only btw Nubbs? Are their plate cuts MX compatible?
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The bottom plate is pretty thin and it may be acrylic or something else depending on what most people want. I wouldn't trust it since we're talking sub 2mm material. That center piece just works better and would be more consistent across materials. If there are alternative keyring placements or shapes people want to explore, I'm amenable to that, but I wanted to explain why I'm opposed to it being on the top or bottom piece.
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CNC would probably be much better.
Much more precise and uses more quality material.
The fact that it's also cheaper just seals the deal.
You do know that CNC (computer numeric control) is just a process right? You can CNC mill things like acrylic and polycarb as well as metals like steel and aluminum. You can also use CNC with lathes and other machine tools. Just because something is "CNC" doesn't mean it's a higher quality material.
Sorry, what I meant was that cutting metal would allow us to get higher quality. Both in material and possibly in tolerances.
3D printing with metal isn't nearly as good in quality as actual metal.
CNC would probably be much better.
Much more precise and uses more quality material.
The fact that it's also cheaper just seals the deal.
Not sure where you're getting that CNC would be cheaper. If anything, I would expect CNC to be dramatically more expensive. It's only laser and water cut that are cheaper.
There would be zero difference in materials available most likely between CNC and laser and/or water jet cut. The main differences would be price and tolerances and the potential for a side cutout which would also mean the center piece would have to be tapped for the screws holding the parts together. Water jet and laser have slightly looser tolerances, but an overall cheaper keyring. With laser and water jet cut, the middle piece could even be resin impregnated wood and if people wanted to get really fancy (and pay for it), I could even look at resin and burl blanks and see if they could be cut.
Didn't realise that it would dramatically increase the cost.
You just said that cutting with waterjet or laser would range from $12-20 which was dramatically cheaper than the $30 of 3D printing with metal.
I assumed that moving up to a cnc, given those numbers with waterjet and laser, would still be cheaper than $30.
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In low production runs, I wouldn't expect a CNCed keychain to be cheaper than 3D printing and certainly anywhere near as cheap as 2D cutting. The one piece model would be dramatically more expensive than the three piece or even a two piece since you'd have to find a machine that could actually cut out the internal wells you need for the switch to click in. If it was a pure friction fit like MX or Alps, it would be easier, but it's friction fit plus click in. I can request a quote from some places for a two part model with 10 units, but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap. Since this is a niche of a niche, I have to do everything I can to keep it more affordable.
While the 3D printed isn't perfect, it looks like the tolerance is +/-5% of the whole thickness, so I can dial it in.
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In low production runs, I wouldn't expect a CNCed keychain to be cheaper than 3D printing and certainly anywhere near as cheap as 2D cutting. The one piece model would be dramatically more expensive than the three piece or even a two piece since you'd have to find a machine that could actually cut out the internal wells you need for the switch to click in. If it was a pure friction fit like MX or Alps, it would be easier, but it's friction fit plus click in. I can request a quote from some places for a two part model with 10 units, but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap. Since this is a niche of a niche, I have to do everything I can to keep it more affordable.
While the 3D printed isn't perfect, it looks like the tolerance is +/-5% of the whole thickness, so I can dial it in.
I see.
The layered cut keychain does seem like the best option.
As was stated before, this would be good in terms of costs and we can go with some nice materials like steel or aluminum.
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The bottom plate is pretty thin and it may be acrylic or something else depending on what most people want. I wouldn't trust it since we're talking sub 2mm material. That center piece just works better and would be more consistent across materials. If there are alternative keyring placements or shapes people want to explore, I'm amenable to that, but I wanted to explain why I'm opposed to it being on the top or bottom piece.
I understand how the center piece latch seems like the best solution now, especially for a full acrylic/pc version.
Thx for explaining and considering it tho Nubbs! :thumb:
Will it be Hi-Tek switch exclusive btw tho?
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I can do later iterations in Alps and MX, but this will strictly be NMB Hi-Tek. That said, if people really want swappable top plates, I can double check the depth and make an MX and Alps top for it and make it compatible for all three, but only include the NMB Hi-Tek switches as the only Alps I'm really willing to cannibalize for that are some dampened Cream Alps and MX are ubiquitous in here.
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I'd love to add to my 1% collection
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I'd love to add to my 1% collection
+1 and would Love to see swappable top plates for MX! :)
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The one piece prototype is in the mail in detail plastic. I'll update once it arrives.
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These look pretty cool. Depending on the price, I might get one :) .
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Detail plastic sample came in today:
(http://i.imgur.com/l8QQjfS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JiGjnCG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lOnBLQb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/S2LGEqS.jpg)
It looks like I should be able to make it a little skinnier for the metal version, but I'm still concerned about strength and having an adequate hole for the keychain.
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That looks pretty cool, I like it more than the other design. I don't know the logo on it, though, what's that?
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Didn't appear to be a ton of interest. I'll be locking it for now but may revisit it at a future date.