geekhack

geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: regack on Thu, 02 April 2015, 06:54:59

Title: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: regack on Thu, 02 April 2015, 06:54:59: This doesn't really deserve a "top level thread" and should probably end up as part of a larger PCB manufacturers thing, but the DIY Resources (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33298.0) thread seems a little stale and I'm not entirely sure where else it would go. So anyway, here's a mini-review of ...

DirtyPCBs.com (http://dirtypcbs.com/)
Here's what it says on the site (if you didn't click through the link)

10 pieces, 2 layers, 100% e-test, any color, worldwide shipping included. No Bull...
10 each 5x5cm PCBs $14 (choose 'Protopack' in the quantity dropdown)
10 each 10x10cm PCBs $25 (choose 'Protopack' in the quantity dropdown)

So, I ordered a protopack of 10x10cm boards, leaving all of the options at default, except I changed the board color to white, and USA shipping... it defaults to Afghanistan :-X

Yup, Hongkong Airmail 1-8 weeks. I went for cheap, but hey, free worldwide shipping - even to Australia :-*

I submitted my gerbers on 6 March 2015, and the package arrived on 1 April 2015. Yes, it's a long wait, but I wasn't really in a hurry.

Here's what I got - 12 boards total, so I got the + side of the +/-10. You can panelize (<-- you have to do this yourself) whatever you want in the 5 or 10 cm square, so I put two of these things in there. It broke apart pretty easily, though needs some cleanup.

[attach=1]

Everything tests fine electrically (though I only checked 3 pair), the silkscreen looks readable, even the tiny text on the back. My only complaint would be that these vias are only semi-tented (if that's the right term).

[attach=2][attach=3]

The soldermask is nice, edge cuts are nice. The solder mask around the pads is a bit off center, but hey... it's cheap. I ordered 10, received 12, and because I fit 2 in each 10x10 piece, I have 24 of these things for $25, which works out to $1.04 each. All in all I'd say it's a win.

Now, to try having something made that isn't a cheap protopack. But for that, I needed these prototypes :D
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 02 April 2015, 19:34:36: Thanks for the review! Seems super cheap. Pardon my ignorance, but what are you going to do with these boards?
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: regack on Fri, 03 April 2015, 10:48:33: Quote from: heedpantsnow on Thu, 02 April 2015, 19:34:36
Thanks for the review! Seems super cheap. Pardon my ignorance, but what are you going to do with these boards?

That's a completely legitimate question, it's not really a design I shared before. I really didn't need this many at all, but it was the same cost if I got just 3 of them at OSHPark, instead I got 24. I also just used this as an excuse to test out DirtyPCBs for how long it took, as well as quality, so I jumped the gun a bit on sending in this particular design. In the ~30 days it took to get them, I've gone through some additional revisions and added LED support. I can still use them, however, for spacing and just playing around with.

The holes for the switches allow the PCB to be oriented either horizontal or vertical, and there is the smaller 2x2 breakaway section. PCBs go down in price significantly when ordered in larger quantities, so I was just toying with the idea of using numerous inexpensive base elements to assemble a larger layout while reducing the amount of hand wiring involved.
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: hasu on Thu, 29 October 2015, 22:41:57: I also went for cheap with "Hongkong Airmail (1-8+ weeks)" and I regretted it a bit while I was waiting. Note that it is not registered mail and not trackable you cannot know where your item is at all until delivered, this was very annonying to me.

In the worst case you will have to wait for 8 weeks before contacting them for lost item.
http://dirtypcbs.com/contact.php
Quote
Where are my damn boards!?!

We do cheap, crappy PCBs and ship then on the slow boat. If it hasn't been 8 weeks since your order please do not write. We do not respond to emails about orders shipped less than 8 weeks ago! If that doesn't work for you please buy your boards somewhere else.

I ordered at 28 Spt, it was shipped at 7 or 9 Oct then delivered today 30 Oct, took A WHOLE MONTH! Don't expect two weeks delivery for dirtypcbs. DHL is not cheap but will be really reasonable option considering your time. If DHL is not option for you some other cheap PCB fabs offer registered airmail delivery, it usually takes two weeks to Japan from China.

I paid $52 for this but they declared just $5 in invoice, great, you can circumvent import tax. Small PCBs are put in a bag all together like candy and the bag also contains fiber cut dusts much which make my hands itchy :(
(http://i.imgur.com/ekV744Nh.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/saVF6dbh.jpg)

No complain about PCB itself compared to other fabs.
(http://i.imgur.com/xKXSzBh.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/vtm0UTJh.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/qRob28k.jpg)
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: swill on Thu, 29 October 2015, 22:56:57: Thanks for the reviews guys. I will keep these guys in mind when I work on my next board.

regack, any plans to do single row strips to make staggered layouts easier with those modular boards?
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: Parak on Thu, 29 October 2015, 23:05:54: Quote from: hasu on Thu, 29 October 2015, 22:41:57
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vtm0UTJh.jpg)

That seems pretty bad to me - what is the spacing on the QFP for them to not be able to put down a solder mask dam between the pads? Also, the rest of the pads have the mask aperture shifted a lot :(
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: hasu on Thu, 29 October 2015, 23:24:38: Quote from: Parak on Thu, 29 October 2015, 23:05:54
Quote from: hasu on Thu, 29 October 2015, 22:41:57
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vtm0UTJh.jpg)

That seems pretty bad to me - what is the spacing on the QFP for them to not be able to put down a solder mask dam between the pads? Also, the rest of the pads have the mask aperture shifted a lot :(

You can't make dam between even 0.7mm pitch qfp pins from their specs at least, actually you can do that ignoreing thier recommended design rules but outcome will be vary. I use relaxed design rules these days to conform to specs all cheap fabs offer.

I think you are just too lucky to know cheap fabs while I don't know how good fabs do the job.
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: Parak on Fri, 30 October 2015, 00:31:16: Quote from: hasu on Thu, 29 October 2015, 23:24:38
Quote from: Parak on Thu, 29 October 2015, 23:05:54
Quote from: hasu on Thu, 29 October 2015, 22:41:57
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vtm0UTJh.jpg)

That seems pretty bad to me - what is the spacing on the QFP for them to not be able to put down a solder mask dam between the pads? Also, the rest of the pads have the mask aperture shifted a lot :(

You can't make dam between even 0.7mm pitch qfp pins from their specs at least, actually you can do that ignoreing thier recommended design rules but outcome will be vary. I use relaxed design rules these days to conform to specs all cheap fabs offer.

I think you are just too lucky to know cheap fabs while I don't know how good fabs do the job.

I suspect that they don't mention capabilities of colors other than green and black - their claimed capability of putting a 3 mil dam on green mask seems quite sufficient to me even for 0.5mm pitch (and 0.27mm gap, not 0.20) ... but with the mask aperture alignment issues, it seems like this is a bit of a moot point. Otherwise, it could be possible to put a 3 mil dam + 3 mil clearances with green mask. But well.. they are cheap, and they do say themselves that the pcbs are crappy at the top of the page :p

I know, I nitpick a lot... but I do think that dams are nice to have for hand assembly. I did recommend PCB fabs a few times on here, to not much feedback :( Plus you can just poke me on IRC any time if you prefer that :D
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: hasu on Fri, 30 October 2015, 17:34:32: I didn't look my pics close :D yeah, mask opening is misaligned definitely, not good.
But I usually look into pcb closely and it is ok to me if it just works. I may be too generous for pcb fabs :)

They seems to offer better nubmbers in their capability than other houses and I could do dam between pins probably with green. I didn't found solder mask capability changes by mask color. http://dirtypcbs.com/about.php

I used 0.13mm for 'Solder mask clearance' and 0.1mm for 'Solder mask min width' in KiCad this time, it seems blue mask needs such clearance for safety considering their result pcb unfortunately.
Title: Re: DirtyPCBs.com - a short review
Post by: TD22057 on Sat, 31 October 2015, 11:39:54: FYI - You may also want to check out http://pcbshopper.com/ to get prices from a variety of cheap PCB houses. I don't have any personal reviews of these but they have customer reviews so you can compare a variety of options and costs easily.