geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: Hyde on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:37:04

Title: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: Hyde on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:37:04

I think I start seeing a lot of reports on scratchy MX Red.

I have a Filco from around 2010 or so and I don't notice any scratchiness.

However when I got my Poker II with MX Red I start to notice it.

Most people suspect it might be the manufacturing process has changed at Cherry.  But after I changed my Poker II to those generic coated ABS the problem seems to have go away.

So I suspect the scratchiness might have come from the PBT stem rubbing against the housing ever so slightly.

More testing might be needed but that's my initial thoughts.

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: jacobolus on Fri, 03 April 2015, 21:51:14

Nope. The differences between modern linear MX switches and ones from ~1990 are extremely noticeable if you just compare two perfect condition (i.e. new or lightly used, and stored well) switches, loose, outside the context of any keyboard, and with no keycaps involved.

Likewise, if you only want to talk about switches available brand new today, Cherry MX linear switches are obviously dramatically scratchier than Gateron switches, which are in turn quite a bit scratchier than Matias’s new linear switches.

It is however true that changing the keycap shape and material has an effect on the sound when you press a key. E.g. thin ABS seems to amplify the sound much more than thick PBT.

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 03 April 2015, 22:08:21

I can feel the scratchiness in new MX Red switches by pressing the stem without a keycap. Once the keyboard has been broken in, the effect should be lessened.

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: Hyde on Sat, 04 April 2015, 19:04:26

Ahhh........ ok then maybe it is manufacturing then.

I guess we just need to hammer our keys until it's smooth lol.

But yes they need to have more stock keyboards with Gateron switches and Matias need to release a full size keyboard with their linear switches.

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 04 April 2015, 20:41:58

Quote from: Hyde on Sat, 04 April 2015, 19:04:26

I guess we just need to hammer our keys until it's smooth lol.

Just stop buying Cherry MX switches. Problem solved.

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: KHAANNN on Sat, 04 April 2015, 21:35:27

Keycaps do seem to screw things a lot, especially if you are keen on the beauty of the SP sets (beautiful outside, empty inside, especially DSA's)

Even the profile affects the experience a lot, longer keycaps might feel more scratchy as likely the keypress is more unbalanced, also D/SA keycaps might be more scratchy/soundy compared to DCS as there is a wider optimal click area and when you press the keycap from the edges, the stem scratches to the opposite side

I personally hate the sound aspect instead, especially with clicky switches, yet with linears/tactiles it's a unique property instead of a downright annoyance, adding bottom-out mods fixes the issue for linears/tactile's

For me, the logical conclusion was to seek GMK keycaps, as they combine beauty with quality, yet it's practically impossible as they are not freely available and it's almost impossible to fill in the unique spots of unique 60%'s

Interestingly, although I'm pretty obsessive, the scratchiness was never an issue for me, as far as I'm concerned, my red switches doesn't scratch, if anything, they seem too soft and silent, sometimes I don't even notice when I'm pressing the keys, a little bit of scratch could prevent that (red + little bit of scratch ~= brown, I would rather misclick tho) :)

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: Hoaryhag on Sun, 05 April 2015, 10:28:58

I went from stock poker 2 caps to oem pbt to thick cherry pbt on my MX reds.  I did not like the stock poker 2 caps.  The oem pbt felt better but the keys still had a distinct scratchy feel.  The thick pbt caps feel much much better.  With the thick pbt the keys are stiffer and smoother, but there is still some scratch there.  I'm getting some Gateron blacks to try out from the GB.  I bet the Matias linears could be nice and I was leaning Matias but the lack of keycaps changed my mind.

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 05 April 2015, 13:39:41

I find heavier keycaps reduce the feeling of scratchiness, although it's still noticable, but it reduces it to a tolerable level. So GMK caps, thick PBT or SA profile help. I also like the overall feeling of heavier caps, so it's a win-win for me.

Title: Re: It occur to me that the recent "Scratchy MX Red" might be due to keycap material
Post by: Hyde on Mon, 06 April 2015, 09:57:03

Personally I find the stock Poker 2 keycaps are indeed one of the more scratchier ones I've tried.  IMSTO PBT wasn't too bad.

And generally I find stock thin ABS never caused any issues for me.  Maybe in general ABS just smooth out faster.  :P