The Matias switches have a higher actuation / tactile / click point compared to MX.
The tactile feedback on the Matias is a more satisfying multi-event KERCHUCNK, versus the simple single tick from MX Blue.
Matias click is lower in pitch, and to me at least, less annoying than MX Blue.
Matias click is a bit heavier / harder to press than MX Blue.
On Matias switches the resistance decreases after actuation so you're gonna bottom-out. If you like notbottoming you might prefer Blues.
It also just feels thinner and of a lower quality than the plastic used in Filcos.The polycarbonate used by Matias is a sturdier and more expensive plastic than the ABS and ABS mixes used by other vendors.
The Matias switches have a higher actuation / tactile / click point compared to MX.
The tactile feedback on the Matias is a more satisfying multi-event KERCHUCNK, versus the simple single tick from MX Blue.
Matias click is lower in pitch, and to me at least, less annoying than MX Blue.
Matias click is a bit heavier / harder to press than MX Blue.
On Matias switches the resistance decreases after actuation so you're gonna bottom-out. If you like notbottoming you might prefer Blues.
The polycarbonate used by Matias is a sturdier and more expensive plastic than the ABS and ABS mixes used by other vendors.
The glossy appearance definitely isn’t everyone’s preference though. There’s nothing inherently better or worse about it, but matching the aesthetic of late-1990s Macintosh computers and peripherals does make it seem a bit dated to many people.
Matias Tactile is a much looser switch than Cherry, and because of this it has a lot more clack to it and it's much louder to type on. IMO Matias Tactile feels better, but it's not worth the trade off in noise, I use Blues 90% of the time.
The polycarbonate used by Matias is a sturdier and more expensive plastic than the ABS and ABS mixes used by other vendors.
The plastic is superior to Filco? Interesting.I wouldn’t say it’s “superior” as a blanket statement; that’s fairly subjective. It is however sturdier and more expensive.
[...] the keyboard has a very hollow "plasticy" resonant clack sound that led me to believe it was of inferior quality. Are the switches mounted to a metal plate just like the Filco? Is there more open space inside the case compared to a Filco?Yes, switches are mounted on a steel plate. There might be more space inside compared to a Filco, I’m not sure. Open both keyboards up and compare?
Matias Tactile is a much looser switch than Cherry, and because of this it has a lot more clack to it and it's much louder to type on. IMO Matias Tactile feels better, but it's not worth the trade off in noise, I use Blues 90% of the time.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what do you mean by "looser"? Do you mean you can wiggle the stem in the housing more than you can with a cherry MX stem?
shouldn't you guys be asking how Matias compares to the IBM SELECTRIC (II)? Because gag me with a spoon, but you basically described that typewriter.Nah, the Selectric is great fun to type on, but it’s pretty different from a clicky Alps/Matias switch. It’s kind of difficult to describe the feeling of a Selectric in prose though.
I will say that Alps clicky switches are probably the closest I've gotten to Selectric in a computer keyboard, but that's still a very long way away.
In prose, I would describe how the Selectric feels by how it works. First up, have a force graph:Show Image(http://bhtooefr.org/images/SelectricComposerForce.png)
There's a very, very light leaf spring with 5.6 mm travel that makes up the linear component of the Selectric's travel. This bottoms out at about 37 cN.
The tactility and actuation are provided by a separate mechanism from that (which is, to be fair, also true of Cherry - Alps separates tactility and actuation from one another). However, Selectrics do it in a way that doesn't resemble anything that a computer keyboard can possibly do. The keylever engages an interposer, which is on a stiff spring (actually, two stiff springs which are engaged separately), and force goes up from about 17 cN (after the .1 mm of travel to load the linear spring) to about 62 cN very quickly (at about 1.3 mm of total travel). Meanwhile, the interposer is pushing against a bail that mechanically engages the print mechanism, and at about 3.8 mm of total travel, and 71 cN force (note how long you spend pushing the interposer against the bail, which gives a huge meaty tactile bump), the print mechanism engages, and this is where the real magic happens.
The force graph doesn't tell you everything that happens here, either, is the thing. The force graph shows a vertical dropoff.
What actually happens is that a camshaft actually KNOCKS THE INTERPOSER OUT FROM UNDER THE KEYLEVER. The key falls out from under your finger, dropping from 71 cN to about 31 cN force instantly. Because your finger isn't providing the force for this tactile drop, that's why it feels like the key falls away from you.
Finally, at about 5.6 mm of travel, the ride's over, and you bottom out.
Releasing the key is done purely against the leaf spring, so it's light, there's no reverse tactile sensation, nothing forcing your finger up hard.
Matias Tactile is a much looser switch than Cherry, and because of this it has a lot more clack to it and it's much louder to type on. IMO Matias Tactile feels better, but it's not worth the trade off in noise, I use Blues 90% of the time.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what do you mean by "looser"? Do you mean you can wiggle the stem in the housing more than you can with a cherry MX stem?
Yes, the stems wiggle more than Cherry switches. The Tactile switches are just all around a looser switch by design.
OK, another dumb question: how does the stem being looser translate into a louder clack noise when you bottom out?It doesn’t. No idea how he came up with that.
Also how do Matias tactile click switches compare to true complicated white alps? Do true complicated white alps also have loose stems?They’re very similar feeling to white Alps. About the same amount of force to actuate, and maybe slightly more tactile. “Complicated” Alps switches are also a bit wobbly, but noticeably less than Matias switches. The leaf spring used for actuating the switch is also bigger and more substantial, which I suspect helps to stabilize the slider a bit.
I will say that Alps clicky switches are probably the closest I've gotten to Selectric in a computer keyboard, but that's still a very long way away.
In prose, I would describe how the Selectric feels by how it works. First up, have a force graph:Show Image(http://bhtooefr.org/images/SelectricComposerForce.png)
There's a very, very light leaf spring with 5.6 mm travel that makes up the linear component of the Selectric's travel. This bottoms out at about 37 cN.
The tactility and actuation are provided by a separate mechanism from that (which is, to be fair, also true of Cherry - Alps separates tactility and actuation from one another). However, Selectrics do it in a way that doesn't resemble anything that a computer keyboard can possibly do. The keylever engages an interposer, which is on a stiff spring (actually, two stiff springs which are engaged separately), and force goes up from about 17 cN (after the .1 mm of travel to load the linear spring) to about 62 cN very quickly (at about 1.3 mm of total travel). Meanwhile, the interposer is pushing against a bail that mechanically engages the print mechanism, and at about 3.8 mm of total travel, and 71 cN force (note how long you spend pushing the interposer against the bail, which gives a huge meaty tactile bump), the print mechanism engages, and this is where the real magic happens.
The force graph doesn't tell you everything that happens here, either, is the thing. The force graph shows a vertical dropoff.
What actually happens is that a camshaft actually KNOCKS THE INTERPOSER OUT FROM UNDER THE KEYLEVER. The key falls out from under your finger, dropping from 71 cN to about 31 cN force instantly. Because your finger isn't providing the force for this tactile drop, that's why it feels like the key falls away from you.
Finally, at about 5.6 mm of travel, the ride's over, and you bottom out.
Releasing the key is done purely against the leaf spring, so it's light, there's no reverse tactile sensation, nothing forcing your finger up hard.
Sounds so fun to type on. I would like to try/own one some day.
IF it were possible to create a mechanical keyboard with a selectric designed mechanism, and with cherry-type long lifespan (of course it would be much thicker than a normal keyboard), would you guys pay some big $$ for it?
All the Cherry mx switches feel very linear when you're typing fast. 100+WPM
Even Topre and Matias feel somewhat linear when you're going fast, but less so linear than Cherry
The Buckling spring is the only switch I've felt that really gives you that substantial vibration at the finger tips at all speeds..
But of course my speed limit is 135wpm, so I don't know if perhaps at 140 150+ even Buckling spring will feel linear..