The physical difference in what you're pushing on the F compared to the M is a slightly lighter spring and a bigger hammer, contacting a capacitive PCB instead of a membrane.
The overall experience is lighter and akin to typing on bubble wrap, the small kind that pops easily.
I see where people get ping from the sound, but honestly it's not the same as MX board ping. My Monoprice pings and it's irritating. The F absolutely has those high metallic overtones but it's not an unpleasant, inconsistent thing, it's just part of the sound and every key makes it consistently.
Thank you for such a succinct and deft explanation on the difference between Models M and F BSs.
The distinction you made between the annoying MX KB ping and that of a Model F 'resonates' with me.
Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens) and different sound when it buckles against the barrel (along with the rest of the generally metal assembly).
Model M spring is thicker / shorter which results in a higher actuation force, and the generally plastic assembly resonates differently.
Referring to a Model M as dull, and a Model F as alive seems pretty accurate to me. Feeling wise, I definitely prefer Model F to M.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=57879.0;attach=63687;image)Show Image(https://rudd-o.com/uploads/images/the-best-keyboard-ever-built-ibm-model-m/the-buckling-spring-inside-an-ibm-model-m.gif)
Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens) and different sound when it buckles against the barrel (along with the rest of the generally metal assembly).
Model M spring is thicker / shorter which results in a higher actuation force, and the generally plastic assembly resonates differently.
Referring to a Model M as dull, and a Model F as alive seems pretty accurate to me. Feeling wise, I definitely prefer Model F to M.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=57879.0;attach=63687;image)Show Image(https://rudd-o.com/uploads/images/the-best-keyboard-ever-built-ibm-model-m/the-buckling-spring-inside-an-ibm-model-m.gif)
Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens)From what I've seen of force curves and documentation, this doesn't appear to be true. MX Green actuates at 80 cN - noticeably higher than capacitive (60-65 gf) OR membrane (65-70 gf) buckling springs. Also, I only have Greens in a tester, but it definitely felt stiffer than any of my Model Ms.
Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens)From what I've seen of force curves and documentation, this doesn't appear to be true. MX Green actuates at 80 cN - noticeably higher than capacitive (60-65 gf) OR membrane (65-70 gf) buckling springs. Also, I only have Greens in a tester, but it definitely felt stiffer than any of my Model Ms.
MX Green actuates at 80 cNI don’t think this is correct, at least based on experience I’ve had typing on people’s MX green keyboards at meetups. Maybe you’re talking about the force to fully depress the switch?
Don't let people's obsession with "sound" put you off. The painful overtones of the metallic ping can be successfully attenuated with a floss mod and some padding (which I do to ALL of my Model Fs).
The difference in feel is significant and I attribute it to multiple rigid plates bent into a curved shape and in constant tension and compression relative to each other.
My daily driver has been a Model F for 2-3 years now, and there is nothing like it.
Day before yesterday, I did a complete clean and bolt-mod on a 1987 Model M SSK, which is arguably just about the top shelf specimen (and the second that I have done in the past half-year or so) and there is still no comparison. The Model M keys are heavier and the sound is a dull thunk as opposed to what some people have described as the Model F's "singing"
And, by the way, I will continue to argue that IBM M/Fs do not have "switches" in the conventional sense, and that the buckling spring assemblies are merely mechanisms which activate switches.
I like the machine gun funk of an F. Nice and loud. Very pingy.
Only thing that would make it better is when I hook up the beeper.
Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens)From what I've seen of force curves and documentation, this doesn't appear to be true. MX Green actuates at 80 cN - noticeably higher than capacitive (60-65 gf) OR membrane (65-70 gf) buckling springs. Also, I only have Greens in a tester, but it definitely felt stiffer than any of my Model Ms.
When I take an MX Green switch, invert it and press the stem down on any key on a buckling spring board, it always the MX Green switch that actuates first, then the buckling spring. If I continue pressing until they both bottom out, then slowly release pressure - it is always the buckling spring that resets first, followed by the MX Green. I do agree that MX Greens feel heavier though.
I've found this method to be extremely unreliable. I've managed to get completely contradictory and misleading results doing this. Using BS, it's even worse, because you can really only do this with a key cap still on the springs which ****s up the results even more as the force acting on the buckling spring will deviate by cos θ in two dimensions (with θ the angle of the profile of the key cap laterally and longitudinally). Even in an unskewed head-on I managed to get it to fail, though. Leave measuring forces to machines or dedicated setups.Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens)From what I've seen of force curves and documentation, this doesn't appear to be true. MX Green actuates at 80 cN - noticeably higher than capacitive (60-65 gf) OR membrane (65-70 gf) buckling springs. Also, I only have Greens in a tester, but it definitely felt stiffer than any of my Model Ms.
When I take an MX Green switch, invert it and press the stem down on any key on a buckling spring board, it always the MX Green switch that actuates first, then the buckling spring. If I continue pressing until they both bottom out, then slowly release pressure - it is always the buckling spring that resets first, followed by the MX Green. I do agree that MX Greens feel heavier though.
Weird. I've had the exact opposite experience. Taking a keychain with an MX green and putting it upside down over a key on my Model F, the F spring buckles before the Green clicks, and the click on coming up occurs before the green releases. Are you doing it on an M maybe? Because this is just odd.
Nah, that's usually around or over 100 isn't it? It's 80 cN according to the DT wiki: http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Green and 80 gf according to mechanicalkeyboards.com: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=48MX Green actuates at 80 cNI don�t think this is correct, at least based on experience I�ve had typing on people�s MX green keyboards at meetups. Maybe you�re talking about the force to fully depress the switch?
The sound is also quite different, a lot more pingy in the Model F. I don't have an F yet, so I couldn't say anything about the feeling yet, though.This is a very accurate description. They have a more 'metallic' sound.
In addition to Ludovician's info, Fs have a metal case. And to me the switches feel a touch lighter in terms of actuation force. And the metal plates make the typing experience a little more lively and bouncy. The M feels a little dull and muted in contrast. Easiest way to compare the two is probably to try them side by side at a meetup. I did the comparison at the first Chicago keycon. I'm not adamant that I'd go with only Model F but there's definitely a difference in the typing feel to me.This is exactly what I recall from my days of typing on an F. We had an M at home, so I could actually tell the difference and this describes it to a t (we still have that M, and the PS/2 30-286 that it came with).
Thank you again for the visuals. It really brings the differences to life.Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens) and different sound when it buckles against the barrel (along with the rest of the generally metal assembly).Thanks for the visual and comment. I had no idea there was such a marked difference between Model M and F switch components. Thank you.
Model M spring is thicker / shorter which results in a higher actuation force, and the generally plastic assembly resonates differently.
Referring to a Model M as dull, and a Model F as alive seems pretty accurate to me. Feeling wise, I definitely prefer Model F to M.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=57879.0;attach=63687;image)Show Image(https://rudd-o.com/uploads/images/the-best-keyboard-ever-built-ibm-model-m/the-buckling-spring-inside-an-ibm-model-m.gif)
The sound is also quite different, a lot more pingy in the Model F. I don't have an F yet, so I couldn't say anything about the feeling yet, though.This is a very accurate description. They have a more 'metallic' sound.
In addition to Ludovician's info, Fs have a metal case. And to me the switches feel a touch lighter in terms of actuation force. And the metal plates make the typing experience a little more lively and bouncy. The M feels a little dull and muted in contrast. Easiest way to compare the two is probably to try them side by side at a meetup. I did the comparison at the first Chicago keycon. I'm not adamant that I'd go with only Model F but there's definitely a difference in the typing feel to me.This is exactly what I recall from my days of typing on an F. We had an M at home, so I could actually tell the difference and this describes it to a t (we still have that M, and the PS/2 30-286 that it came with).
Thank you again for the visuals. It really brings the differences to life.Model F spring is thinner / taller which results in a lower actuation force (slightly - it is still higher than MX Greens) and different sound when it buckles against the barrel (along with the rest of the generally metal assembly).Thanks for the visual and comment. I had no idea there was such a marked difference between Model M and F switch components. Thank you.
Model M spring is thicker / shorter which results in a higher actuation force, and the generally plastic assembly resonates differently.
Referring to a Model M as dull, and a Model F as alive seems pretty accurate to me. Feeling wise, I definitely prefer Model F to M.Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=57879.0;attach=63687;image)Show Image(https://rudd-o.com/uploads/images/the-best-keyboard-ever-built-ibm-model-m/the-buckling-spring-inside-an-ibm-model-m.gif)
I just want to concur with fohats statement. Don't give in to other peoples obsessions. I don't obsess over the sound of my F's, I just don't care for the continuing ring of them. I do a floss mod, replace the mat, and use rattle can plastidip on the plates. I have a clip where I do a short typing test for sound, do the floss mod, then another typing test to show the difference between before and after. Granted I don't actually use floss, but what I use works great.
Sorry about the dupe post--got a weird error message about something not being an integer?