geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Rajagra on Mon, 14 September 2009, 11:42:37
-
I'm not fast. I only learned to touch-type properly this year. I reached 60wpm on QWERTY, switched to Colemak and have got back to 50wpm. I don't think I'm destined (or need) to become a blisteringly fast typist, but it can be a bit disheartening to see values like 100-120wpm thrown into discussions as if they are typical.
So I did a quick search and found this:
From http://www.readi.info/documents/TypingSpeed.pdf
Those are real-world figures from people applying for jobs involving typing!
Now I'm sure there are ways to criticize that data, but it does put things in perspective a bit.
So fellow slow-pokes of the world rejoice, you are probably better than you thought!
Edit> The other graph I found, mentioned below:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4525&d=1252954108)
-
ive always considered 30ish to be proficient for a computer-based job and 60ish to be above average and 100+ to be elite. guess i was right on.
reminded me to go take typing test again. its been (and i check...) 3wks since i switched, after about 1wk i was back to almost 50, so id like to see how i do now.
the problem lately isnt not knowing where the keys are, though i STILL keep confusing D and G, but because of the back-and-forth action of colemak, doing letters in the wrong order because I get ahead of myself.
-
wow...
I was all justified by being ecstatic at hitting over 100WPM sustained for the fist time ever this week. Having been buoyed by that, and trying to do it as often as possible... it hurts!
I find that for "stream of conciousness" stuff that I don't need to look at the screen for (I don't touch type... yet), arounbd 50-75WPM is comfortable.
-
I'm with you. I don't know my exact typing speed, but I know I am in the 60-70 WPM range. I can touch-type, but I have never really pushed myself to type fast (I do type very smoothly, though). I am getting blank keys for my Filco, so I am hoping that'll rid my bad habit of looking at the keys from time to time (I don't really look at individual keys as I type, I just sort of stare blankly at the letters, in general). I am thinking that if I can solidify my touch-typing confidence, I will be able to type faster almost by default.
-
I'm not fast. I only learned to touch-type properly this year. I reached 60wpm on QWERTY, switched to Colemak and have got back to 50wpm. I don't think I'm destined (or need) to become a blisteringly fast typist, but it can be a bit disheartening to see values like 100-120wpm thrown into discussions as if they are typical.
So I did a quick search and found this:
From http://www.readi.info/documents/TypingSpeed.pdf
Those are real-world figures from people applying for jobs involving typing!
Now I'm sure there are ways to criticize that data, but it does put things in perspective a bit.
So fellow slow-pokes of the world rejoice, you are probably better than you thought!
I found this graph when I was researching, and I believe it is bull****, by the way.
-Other sources show a far, far greater distribution of fast typers, just look up the typing entry on wikipedia. [i take that back, someone stuck this info into the wiki entry for typing, lol. Its contradicted somewhat by the paragraph after it though].
-This graph always shows up only on one kind of blog post - a slow typer justifying slow typing. (Nothing wrong with that; and nothing against you raj lol, but this post here is one such as well ;)
-its the only graph of its kind out there btw
A second point is that even if the distribution were accurate in the real world (their sample size is not representative in my view by the way, despite their claims), a few percent of the worlds typists is millions of people. And I would not want millions of people to be dissatisfied with their keyboard purchases, and neither should the vendors -- and neither should the average slow typer.
I also think, this argument here -- that fast typists are some kind of extreme "fringe" minority that no one should pay attention to (!!!!!) -- is similar to the false argument about burst or roll speeds being a fringe phenomenon during typing. Its not, even for moderately fast typists (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=116444&postcount=21). Anyone who evolves past two finger typing and builds any speed at all is going to begin doing bursts and rolls, which are considerably faster than the overall average typing speed they register. Thats where the transpositions happen.
-
your criticisms are valid but a typist is no longer a job qualification, lately considered to just be "someone who types". it is much more commonplace and expected. i think 100wpm (sustained, burst isn't pointless but should not be used to describe speed) IS quite high, and a lot of the people that care enough to flaunt it are typing more than orders at mcdonalds, as their job expects more from them.
tldr - a 100wpm typer is a fringe minority compared to the whole world, but not when an employer is seeking a typist to do nothing but copy all day... which is a minority in itself.
i guess its like being the worst player in the NBA but still the best one in your neighborhood.
-
typeracer latest scores:
(http://www.gesticulations.com/public/gallery/Images/fun/typeracer_latest.png)
typeracer fastest scores:
(http://www.gesticulations.com/public/gallery/Images/fun/typeracer_fastest.png)
-
im saying only people that liked to type and are very serious go to typeracer in the first place
57wpm, first try! this includes getting used to it and all. The one-word-at-a-time thing is hard for me compared to the Hi-Games typing test.
-
im saying only people that liked to type and are very serious go to typeracer in the first place
sure, and its also those people who are part of the market for elite keyboards, is MY point. So lets not sell them up the river, is my point. :)
Its really a simple point... I guess I just feel like its such a basic point for this niche industry, and maybe i'm too defensive about it having had my heart broken twice this week. :) I do tho feel like its a basic point for this industry and not enough people (vendors especially and manufacturers especially) are paying attention to it, thats all.
Thats why i keep saying:
-i'm not looking for perfection; but i dont want to be robbed either when I pay 100 for a keyboard
-that robbing can be avoided in one of two ways:
a) ideally vendors should offer a return. (incredibly, not all sellers of 'elite' boards offer this, despite knowing there is a range of quality out there that may not fit all niches that a given typerwriter is going into. What this means for the consumer: buy from someone who offers returns if you want to be safe.
b) ideally vendors should post some information about the tech specs fo the board by which an educated consumer might be able to decide which keyboard is approrpriate for the task for which they are buying the keyboard for. This might include things like controller make and model, key switch specifics, matrix and nkro information, or etc. Rather than the status quo in the industry, which tends to just sell any shiny board as 'elite!' and "quality!' and 'professional!' without any regard to its guts and what its guts including its controller board can ACTUALLY handle. So (b) here is a call for more transparency about a keyboards guts, ideally or eventually being made standard information on a keybaords product page.
Either (a) or (b) would allieviate the problem of people buying elite/expensive keyboards mismatched for their purposes and uses.
-
If that's the typing grading scale, does that mean my ~70 WPM gets a B?
In all seriousness, at 60-70WPM I don't feel fast(This is on QWERTY). However, I have a somewhat unorthodox typing technique.
My Left Index finger hits b,c,f,g,r,t,v leaving my left middle finger to only hit d or e. And I only ever use the left shift. I also have an additional key, m, which I hit with my right index finger.
Anyway, I figure that I probably can practice enough to get around 80-85 WPM average, and call it pretty good. Once I really get rolls down, perhaps I can burst around 100, but that's a lot more practice.
-
sure, and its also those people who are part of the market for elite keyboards, is MY point. So lets not sell them up the river, is my point. :)
Its really a simple point... I guess I just feel like its such a basic point for this niche industry, and maybe i'm too defensive about it having had my heart broken twice this week. :) I do tho feel like its a basic point for this industry and not enough people (vendors especially and manufacturers especially) are paying attention to it, thats all.
oh, well yeah.
i keep winning in typeracer with 50-60wpm. its still weird. it has a "look at something, not what you are typing" approach, like copying text. i usually type what i am thinking, so look at what i am typing and identify errors (which is by far the main source of slowness right now having switched) instead.
i keep not pressing the spacebar. it is strange.
it's also like a 30-second test, so it's going to be a lot faster. on hi-games the top scores for the 5min test are vastly different than the ones for the 30sec test.
EDIT just got 72wpm...
i notice book quotes have a lot of typos that i subliminally correct. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe just used 'effect' as a verb. maybe i dont get it.
-
I typed around 85 for years and years before suddenly (to my own suprise) bumping up to the next plateau level around 100wpm. I was surprised to discover that when I did.
its kind of like langauge learning which can improve in a similar 'plateau' or 'step' fashion. As one becomes familiar with one level and internalizes it, then their efficiency jumps up a 'step'.
-
typeracer latest scores:
Seriously, that proves nothing. It is the extreme cases of people who compete at typing like it is a video game.
Where can I find a graph of speed distribution at Typeracer? That would be far more useful.
-
even to typeracer i am considered a "typemaster"... the highest level is 80wpm+. they recognize it as relative speed to everyone, not just 'typists', even though their high scores do not.
-
-its the only graph of its kind out there btw
Found another graph, similar results:
http://speedtest.aoeu.nl/
-
-its the only graph of its kind out there btw
Found another graph, similar results:
http://speedtest.aoeu.nl/
-
I found this graph when I was researching, and I believe it is bull****, by the way.
-Other sources show a far, far greater distribution of fast typers, just look up the typing entry on wikipedia. [i take that back, someone stuck this info into the wiki entry for typing, lol. Its contradicted somewhat by the paragraph after it though].
-This graph always shows up only on one kind of blog post - a slow typer justifying slow typing. (Nothing wrong with that; and nothing against you raj lol, but this post here is one such as well ;)
-its the only graph of its kind out there btw
A second point is that even if the distribution were accurate in the real world (their sample size is not representative in my view by the way, despite their claims), a few percent of the worlds typists is millions of people. And I would not want millions of people to be dissatisfied with their keyboard purchases, and neither should the vendors -- and neither should the average slow typer.
I also think, this argument here -- that fast typists are some kind of extreme "fringe" minority that no one should pay attention to (!!!!!) -- is similar to the false argument about burst or roll speeds being a fringe phenomenon during typing. Its not, even for moderately fast typists (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=116444&postcount=21). Anyone who evolves past two finger typing and builds any speed at all is going to begin doing bursts and rolls, which are considerably faster than the overall average typing speed they register. Thats where the transpositions happen.
Woah welly, that is a bit uncalled for. :smile:
I'm happy if I can push it to 60 WPM without hurting my wrists, so you have my respect when you can pull of a whopping 100+ WPM.
However, I think the point here was that slow(er) typists on this forum shouldn't feel bad, as these statistics would show the majority types about 35 WPM, give or take 10.
A larger data set would sure smooth out the roughness of the data, but would it really shift the curve to 50 or more? I don't think so, as a lot of kids nowadays learn to type by IM'ing, resulting in what I would call a "hunting with buckshot" style (i.e. you can type common combinations without looking but lack the steadiness of real touch typer). I only learned touch-typing when I switched to colemak a couple of months ago.
What disturbs me the most is that you're switching to another topic - your current pet peeve, the dreaded scan rate problems. This thread didn't imply that fast typists should be ignored. It does imply though that most common keyboards can be used by the majority of typists and hence most vendors target the regular typer.
So the problem lies not with the common keyboard vendors who target regular typists, rather it is with those who explicitly market the "elite" group and then don't deliver.
I can understand that you're a little heartbroken, but please don't take it out on the forum and especially the ones like me who simply don't type that fast.
Maybe we should hire a translator and send a stern letter to Filco and Metadot about this. Letters still carry more weight than a common e-mail.
-
But there's really no excuse to market a high-cost board that can't even keep up with high-end customers.
-
That's what I meant when I said that there are vendors targeting the high-end customers and then don't deliver.
-
Please don't confuse the issue, even slow typists can do fast rolls, none of us want badly designed junk.
I even cracked open my DAS to run tests on that problem, and I showed that the DAS is capable of performing much better than it does. The hardware is up to the job, but they messed up somewhere (badly programmed firmware is my belief.)
-
Woah welly, that is a bit uncalled for. :smile:
I'm happy if I can push it to 60 WPM without hurting my wrists, so you have my respect when you can pull of a whopping 100+ WPM.
However, I think the point here was that slow(er) typists on this forum shouldn't feel bad, as these statistics would show the majority types about 35 WPM, give or take 10.
A larger data set would sure smooth out the roughness of the data, but would it really shift the curve to 50 or more? I don't think so, as a lot of kids nowadays learn to type by IM'ing, resulting in what I would call a "hunting with buckshot" style (i.e. you can type common combinations without looking but lack the steadiness of real touch typer). I only learned touch-typing when I switched to colemak a couple of months ago.
What disturbs me the most is that you're switching to another topic - your current pet peeve, the dreaded scan rate problems. This thread didn't imply that fast typists should be ignored. It does imply though that most common keyboards can be used by the majority of typists and hence most vendors target the regular typer.
So the problem lies not with the common keyboard vendors who target regular typists, rather it is with those who explicitly market the "elite" group and then don't deliver.
I can understand that you're a little heartbroken, but please don't take it out on the forum and especially the ones like me who simply don't type that fast.
Maybe we should hire a translator and send a stern letter to Filco and Metadot about this. Letters still carry more weight than a common e-mail.
sorry jbert, nothing personal against slow typers... i used to be one myself. And some of my best friends still are. ;)
-
Where can I find a graph of speed distribution at Typeracer? That would be far more useful.
You're right, that would be more useful. I've thought about emailing typeracer folks to ask for that. I'm kind of surprised they didnt just post it. It would be interesting to see for its own sake.
the problem I have with the graphs above is the sample set. I suppose for myself I'm not really interested in what the general population types at, cuz the general population doesnt buy elite keyboards (yet, anyway) at hundreds of bucks, isnt the market for them. A sample of professional transcriptionists, writers, secretaries, on the other hand - i've be very interested to know their average wpm and standard deviations (highs and lows)...
thats also why i'd be interested in typeracers overall data -- precisely because its people who type fast - or want to type fast - who come there. Thats more representative of the niche market for elite keyboards.
And maybe in comparison to the general population this group is relatively small; but in terms of the niche market for niche boards, this group is huge (both in absolute terms numerically as well as a percentatge proportion of the consumers who are interested in elite boards).
-
http://www.keyhero.com/
At the bottom of that typing game's page, there's a nice graph. This is a distribution of the people who have played.
The game itself involves typing pretty short quotes that often take less than a minute to complete. Thus, my peak speeds there have been well over 75 WPM - a speed that I've only reached once on the 2-minute higames.net test so far. Keep in mind this: "Sustained speed" is different over 1, 2 and 5 minutes. Take the higames test or just look at its' different highscore lists if you want to see this.
(http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxrHxXBgDgQVx2oSy4y8VQQ&oid=4&output=image)
I honestly believe that a lot of typists are faster nowadays, even if they took it all more seriously in the old days. Chatting on the net (in-game!) gets you a lot of speed practice, apparently. You have to get your point through before your discussion partners move on and/or a demon starts nibbling at your game persona!
-
I honestly believe that a lot of typists are faster nowadays, even if they took it all more seriously in the old days. Chatting on the net (in-game!) gets you a lot of speed practice, apparently. You have to get your point through before your discussion partners move on and/or a demon starts nibbling at your game persona!
Getting your message across as fast as possible doesn't always imply correct typing.
One of my favourite examples in this matter is the word "through" - a considerable number of people always writes "thru" without thinking.
-
typeracer is fun, I didn't know this one.
wpm depends a lot on the test you choose. Some time ago I tried one that threw a lot of symbols and complex words at me which compromised my wpm even more. Then it suggested I should learn touch typing to improve my typing speed. Well thank you, #$%#@ typing test, I was already touch typing.
-
Aha! If you hover over a car in Typeracer, the final stat is Rank (WPM percentile.)
-
What does the WPM percentile mean? (I'm dumb)
-
Found it in the Typeracer blog.
If you have a rank of 51% then you're faster than 51% of the users.
-
Found it in the Typeracer blog.
If you have a rank of 51% then you're faster than 51% of the users.
interesting, thanks raj. But so if they have that info already (as they obviously do) then they should just post it in an updating graph. I'll see if i can suggest this on the blog.
-
Found it in the Typeracer blog.
If you have a rank of 51% then you're faster than 51% of the users.
Cumulative percentiles is a much more meaningful statistical measure for these sorts of things anyways. The only information you can really draw from those graphs is what % of people type at the same speed as you, rather then the more interesting "What percentage of people type slower/faster then your current speed?"
-
So I decided to contact typeracer to get the stats(they must have them) and here are the results! Good stuff!
Sorry, I don't have this data handy at the moment, but I've been
meaning to put up some graphs on the blog. Send me a reminder at the
end of next week if I don't have it up by then.
Thanks,
Alex
-
So I decided to contact typeracer to get the stats(they must have them) and here are the results! Good stuff!
Sorry, I don't have this data handy at the moment, but I've been
meaning to put up some graphs on the blog. Send me a reminder at the
end of next week if I don't have it up by then.
Thanks,
Alex
excellent! Ask him why not put it up on the website itself as a graph that updates once a week or something...
-
wpm depends a lot on the test you choose. Some time ago I tried one that threw a lot of symbols and complex words at me which compromised my wpm even more. Then it suggested I should learn touch typing to improve my typing speed. Well thank you, #$%#@ typing test, I was already touch typing.
Haahaaa! I feel your pain :)
Found it in the Typeracer blog.
If you have a rank of 51% then you're faster than 51% of the users.
so... what are you trying to say??? =P
I think there are so many factors that determine typing speed that I am surprised that anyone can come to any conclusions.
I learned touch typing by taking a course in early high school. I had been so bad and slow at typing that I just refused to do it up until then. I came out of the course averaging 50wpm with maybe possible bursts of up to 70. I thought that was terrific (coming from 15wpm!) and I have enjoyed typing ever since.
When I went to college and had to type my arse off, i started enjoying bursting/rolling through certain words. I noticed that sometimes no matter how accurate I thought I was I could not type certain words or the word would not appear on the computer until I was done typing it. I had really enjoyed the latter and started to indulge in bursting/rolling certain words so it would happen more. Because of this I have developed a really silly and funny sounding way of typing when i try to go fast. It's like a galloping horse!
haahaa =)
cLiCkClAcK-BAAM...cLiCkClAcK-BAAM...cLiCkClAcK-BAAM!!!
"Baam" being the space bar if it wasn't obvious.
After college I think I probably slowed down to 50wpm again (from what??? idunno).
But more recently I finally took some of those tests and my scores varied wildly. When I gallop I don't actually reach my fastest now. It's when I type constantly as if the spaces were just part of the word, that's when I type my fastest. I am now in the low seventies on average and if I can hit a paragraph where I just burst/roll I can tip 100wpm at 100%(rare as hell). I really want to start pushing it just for the sheer amusement of it all.
I think my line of work helps a bit with my dexterity too, considering how infrequently I type.
My gf types as fast as i do but she has to look at the keyboard!
I type my fastest when I am relaxed, I have very recently tried those competitive typing games but I am slower with them. I seldom hit the 80's, and I am mostly in the 60's.
I love the sound of an "M" after 80-wpm, it just sounds dangerously fantastic! =D
-
Typeracer seems to have expanded their range of quotes recently and they've added a number of very difficult passages. It just got harder to consistently post upper range scores.
My average speed on Typeracer has increased since I started playing on it a couple of weeks ago, but my burst speed is way down. It's become hard for me to let go and "just type" without thinking when I'm typeracing because I'm second guessing if I'm spelling something right or not. It's one of those cases in which a novel activity forces you into thinking too hard about something that comes very naturally to you and you actually take a step backwards.
Well... not entirely backwards. I'm getting better about not getting too nervous in a type race and make fewer errors. The increased accuracy won't help me outside of the artificial environment of a type race, but the self awareness that my shoulders are tensing up and I'm not breathing naturally is something that carries over.
-
I was reading a manual typwriting blog the other day and writers,journalists and proofreaders for example went back to manual typewriters after using a pc.Basically they said that because you had to edit and spellcheck in your head (because there is no backspace on old machines) it forced them to be more succinct with less waffle and padding and because it was a slower process they were formulating subjects into more delineated paragraphs.
-
I can totally believe it. I'm way more pithy with my words when I'm composing with speech recognition than when I'm typing.
When I'm typing, it's pretty much stream of consciousness.