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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: mrflow3r on Sat, 16 May 2015, 17:57:48
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I just finished a prototype of a 60% keyboard PCB design. I uploaded it to OSHPark and it quotes me $280 =(. A little steep for my first trial.
Can someone point me to the right direction? I know quality PCB services aren't cheap. I am looking for wisdom.
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Will not you get 3 pieces for that?
If so, then it is a good price.
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Will not you get 3 pieces for that?
If so, then it is a good price.
Yes I do get 3 pieces. I am unsure about the layout. So it would be nice if I get just 1 board to try out.
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Other options:
- Gold Phoenix (http://goldphoenixpcb.biz/)
- PCBWay (http://www.pcbway.com/)
- PCBWing (http://pcbwing.com/)
- PCBCart (http://pcbcart.com/)
- Seeed Studio (http://seeedstudio.com/)
I already used Gold Phoenix for a proof-of-concept keyboard, they are great. And now I'm waiting for a batch of 5 60% keyboards coming already assembled (except for the switches) from Seeed Studio. You might want to take a look and ask for a quote from them all. Almost all of them have a minimum order of 5 PCBs. Gold Phoenix can make a single board, but if you make the PCB the standard size of a 60% keyboard it'll cost you $100, I think.
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why did you choose pcb??? wouldn't it be easier to just hand wire the keyboard??
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PCBs increase the stability of a board compared to hand wiring. If you don't use a PCB, you need to use a plate with individual switch cutouts for your specific layout, rather than a universal layout -- otherwise switches can move around. For some layouts, that means you'll need a custom plate done anyway, and it won't be any cheaper.
Case compatibility may also be a factor. A PCB lets you build the controller into the board, whereas a hand-wired board necessitates wiring a controller, and finding space for a larger chip.
I'll be watching this thread, hopefully I can use some of these resources myself at some point! OP, please let us know what works out to be the best deal for you!
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why did you choose pcb??? wouldn't it be easier to just hand wire the keyboard??
I'd like to make a production quality custom keyboard.
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Other options:
- Gold Phoenix (http://goldphoenixpcb.biz/)
- PCBWay (http://www.pcbway.com/)
- PCBWing (http://pcbwing.com/)
- PCBCart (http://pcbcart.com/)
- Seeed Studio (http://seeedstudio.com/)
I already used Gold Phoenix for a proof-of-concept keyboard, they are great. And now I'm waiting for a batch of 5 60% keyboards coming already assembled (except for the switches) from Seeed Studio. You might want to take a look and ask for a quote from them all. Almost all of them have a minimum order of 5 PCBs. Gold Phoenix can make a single board, but if you make the PCB the standard size of a 60% keyboard it'll cost you $100, I think.
Thanks. I will ask for a quote from those services. I was hoping to get a prototype PCB made for ~$25 from a Chinese service, but that sounds too low.
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PCBs increase the stability of a board compared to hand wiring. If you don't use a PCB, you need to use a plate with individual switch cutouts for your specific layout, rather than a universal layout -- otherwise switches can move around. For some layouts, that means you'll need a custom plate done anyway, and it won't be any cheaper.
Case compatibility may also be a factor. A PCB lets you build the controller into the board, whereas a hand-wired board necessitates wiring a controller, and finding space for a larger chip.
I'll be watching this thread, hopefully I can use some of these resources myself at some point! OP, please let us know what works out to be the best deal for you!
Never really considered hand-wiring a keyboard. I'm not a precise person, but I like to have a clean finish. Hand-wiring sounds too much like an art and craft project.
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I'm thinking perhaps I need to cut down on the size. 40% or less. I just want to make a PCB and see if I can get it to work for now.
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Check http://dirtypcbs.com/ too
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Check http://dirtypcbs.com/ too
It is worth noting that they offer only 5×5 cm (~ 2×2 inches) or 10×10 cm (~ 4×4 inches). You could fit only 5×5 keys into that larger size.
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Interesting. Didn't know that!
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Alright, I made a tweak to my layout. It shaved off ~$70.
Original version (~$280 from OSHPark) - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/T0MZM2bq
Tweaked version - (~$210 from OSHPark) - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pAC5ADVB
I'm get quotes from the services mentioned previous. In the meanwhile I will work on a 40% design.
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Sitopway had nice prices and really fast turnaround time for me. The shipping might seem expensive, but you basically get finished boards in a matter of days instead of weeks (something around 8 business days order to my door last time I did it). Protip: Don't get 1 prototype, get at least 3, price difference will be minimal most of the time.
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Tweaked version - (~$210 from OSHPark) - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pAC5ADVB
I don't see the pcb drill holes for the switches. Cherry needs at least 1 for the plate mount, and 3 for the pcb mount. Diode spacing looks a bit too large and too close to the switch.
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Tweaked version - (~$210 from OSHPark) - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pAC5ADVB
I don't see the pcb drill holes for the switches. Cherry needs at least 1 for the plate mount, and 3 for the pcb mount. Diode spacing looks a bit too large and too close to the switch.
Doh! I was afraid of using either wrong part library and/or incorrect clearance. Here is my project archive in Kicad (https://github.com/b1gtuna/60Percent-V2/blob/master/60.zip).
The hole definitely show in the PCBNew view. I might have forgotten to generate a gerber layer.
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Tweaked version - (~$210 from OSHPark) - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pAC5ADVB
I don't see the pcb drill holes for the switches. Cherry needs at least 1 for the plate mount, and 3 for the pcb mount. Diode spacing looks a bit too large and too close to the switch.
Regarding the proximity of the diode to the switch, shouldn't it be fine as long as I solder the diode on the backside of the PCB?
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Tweaked version - (~$210 from OSHPark) - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pAC5ADVB
I don't see the pcb drill holes for the switches. Cherry needs at least 1 for the plate mount, and 3 for the pcb mount. Diode spacing looks a bit too large and too close to the switch.
Regarding the proximity of the diode to the switch, shouldn't it be fine as long as I solder the diode on the backside of the PCB?
Sure, but you have to clear space around the bottom of the switch too - you don't want the switch to hit the leads of the diode. So compare the footprint of the cherry switch (0.61x0.61 conservatively iirc) against where the diode leads are.
oshpark should have guidelines on gerber and specifically drill file generation. It's always important to double and triple check your generated gerbers as well in something like gerbv or built in gerber viewer in kicad, checking each layer for correctness. Looking at the gerbers in the zip file that you linked to, there are multiple issues that would need to be fixed.
Out of curiosity, what are you making this project for? I don't see anything particularly distinctive about the layout or components, unless it's for a self learning type of thing or similar :)
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Tweaked version - (~$210 from OSHPark) - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/pAC5ADVB
I don't see the pcb drill holes for the switches. Cherry needs at least 1 for the plate mount, and 3 for the pcb mount. Diode spacing looks a bit too large and too close to the switch.
Regarding the proximity of the diode to the switch, shouldn't it be fine as long as I solder the diode on the backside of the PCB?
Sure, but you have to clear space around the bottom of the switch too - you don't want the switch to hit the leads of the diode. So compare the footprint of the cherry switch (0.61x0.61 conservatively iirc) against where the diode leads are.
oshpark should have guidelines on gerber and specifically drill file generation. It's always important to double and triple check your generated gerbers as well in something like gerbv or built in gerber viewer in kicad, checking each layer for correctness. Looking at the gerbers in the zip file that you linked to, there are multiple issues that would need to be fixed.
Out of curiosity, what are you making this project for? I don't see anything particularly distinctive about the layout or components, unless it's for a self learning type of thing or similar :)
I will make adjustment to place the diode inside of the switch. And I guess I have to do some reading on OSHPark and check my Gerbers.
I'm building this to further extend with Bluetooth capabilities later. Hence I am just copying a common layout.
Thanks for your help and will report back with updates!
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Alright, the drill holes come in two files in Kicad. One for NPTH and regular holes. I had to merge the two using GerbV.
Now I'm going to fix the placement of diodes. Should be fun.....
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Here is the link to the updated design thus far - https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/P7fSN3l6
I also updated the .zip file from my github account - https://github.com/b1gtuna/60Percent-V2/blob/master/60.zip
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http://pcbshopper.com (http://pcbshopper.com) allows you to compare prices from a variety of fabs including some of the ones mentioned here based on size, surface finish, lead time etc. Might be worth seeing what quotes you get through them.
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I've used PCBWay twice; 10 copies of a 60% board should run about $120 (including shipping). Mine were delivered in about 7 days.
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http://pcbshopper.com (http://pcbshopper.com) allows you to compare prices from a variety of fabs including some of the ones mentioned here based on size, surface finish, lead time etc. Might be worth seeing what quotes you get through them.
Whoa, thanks that helped a lot. PCBWay seems like a good service.
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I've used PCBWay twice; 10 copies of a 60% board should run about $120 (including shipping). Mine were delivered in about 7 days.
Great to hear from a GH member about PCBWay. I have submitted my order. Waiting to hear back from them.
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At the keyboardio meetup in Louisville, they recommended Seeed Studio. In the past, I know people have used OSHPark as well. In particular, the Enabler GB comes to mind.
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At the keyboardio meetup in Louisville, they recommended Seeed Studio. In the past, I know people have used OSHPark as well. In particular, the Enabler GB comes to mind.
I second Seeed Studio, my 60% prototypes were made there, assembling included. :D
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(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3893/19189409289_5db726fb45_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/veGJQi)DSC04123 (https://flic.kr/p/veGJQi) by Adam Lee (https://www.flickr.com/photos/b1gtuna/), on Flickr
It is here! I ultimately ordered from PCBWay. Really helpful folks they are. ~$30 for 5 PCBs, ~$30 for DHL shipping, and ~$25 for Customs/Duty (ouch). All these took just a week. Impressed.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/528/18753112614_0a13085251_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uz9B2Q)DSC04132 (https://flic.kr/p/uz9B2Q) by Adam Lee (https://www.flickr.com/photos/b1gtuna/), on Flickr
Here is a shot with Gateron Clear that I bought from ZealPC. A really helpful and nice guy!
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At the keyboardio meetup in Louisville, they recommended Seeed Studio. In the past, I know people have used OSHPark as well. In particular, the Enabler GB comes to mind.
I second Seeed Studio, my 60% prototypes were made there, assembling included. :D
Thanks Guys. I will check it out the next time. OSHPark I think is pretty expensive for a big board like thses (big .. in the world of 10cmX10cm boards)
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I've tried Osh park but it's too expensive to me, maybe I will try other fabs
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I've used PCBWay twice; 10 copies of a 60% board should run about $120 (including shipping). Mine were delivered in about 7 days.
how is http://www.pcbway.com/b you mentioned?such as quality and price?
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Hi...i am a new user here. I already used Gold Phoenix for a proof-of-concept keyboard, they are great. And now I'm waiting for a batch of 5 60% keyboards coming already assembled from Seeed Studio. You might want to take a look and ask for a quote from them all. Almost all of them have a minimum order of 5 PCBs. Gold Phoenix can make a single board, but if you make the PCB the standard size of a 60% keyboard.
circuits assembly (https://www.7pcbassembly.com/)