Print Page - Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.

geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: wakamoe on Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:16:28

Title: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: wakamoe on Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:16:28

Hi all!

I am currently in the midst of designing a custom keyboard that is heavily HHKB inspired as I have always wanted to own a HHKB but I do not really like the feeling to topre so I thought that I should design my own that was inspired by it BUT do some changes to things that I feel that I do not need. The board will be wired as PCB will be too expensive.

It is also most likely going to be made out of 3 layers. the top and bottom out of aluminium. and the middle out of acrylic. The top will be 1.5mm thick as it will also be the base plate and the switches need to click in place. Not sure if I can use a 3mm aluminium piece here. The middle out of a 10mm thick acrylic and the bottom out of 3-5mm thick aluminium. Also, it will be using costar sabilisers.

Currently all I have done is to design the layout finish and used swill's plate building tool to design the plate.

Here is how the layout will look like.
http://imgur.com/6ZZfsAQ,JaQoy4e,ATkYsUK#2

This is how the base plate will look like.
http://imgur.com/6ZZfsAQ,JaQoy4e,ATkYsUK#0

This is how it will look like with holes for the screws. (it looks dangerously too close to the edge)
http://imgur.com/6ZZfsAQ,JaQoy4e,ATkYsUK#1

I have a few questions tho.

1. How should I secure the Teensy board to the case.
2. What are some typical adapters that people use for their boards to connect the USB cable to as I do not want to connect it directly to the Teensy board as I am afraid I will break it.
3. Is there a recommended baseplate thickness? or is 3mm okay?
4. for a small board like this. do I need any standoffs other than the screws at the outer edge of the board for it to feel solid?

Thank you for reading this post! All advice is greatly appreciated!

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: E TwentyNine on Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:28:24

I inlined images for you:

Here is how the layout will look like.
(http://imgur.com/ATkYsUK.jpg)

This is how the base plate will look like.
(http://imgur.com/6ZZfsAQ.jpg)

This is how it will look like with holes for the screws. (it looks dangerously too close to the edge)
(http://imgur.com/JaQoy4e.jpg)

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: wakamoe on Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:31:45

Thank you so much!

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:40:38

This is somewhat tangential to your topic, but I'll say it here, anyway.

Have you ever used the HHKB for any substantial amount of time? I know you don't like how Topre switches feel, and to each his own in that regard, but have you used the HHKB layout? I find that for me, in a 60% keyboard, the HHKB layout is superior to any other I've tried. Ctrl in the UNIX position makes more sense than relegating it to a corner, while Caps Lock gets prime keyboard real estate (although not in your modified HHKB design). In actual use, I think you will find that you would prefer Shift to be in the standard locations. And I know many people THINK they need dedicated cursor arrows, but don't really give the HHKB Fn layer arrows a good chance. I don't miss them, personally. I can use the Fn-layer arrows as easily on my HHKB.

FYI, I am typing this post on an HHKB. I'm also not enthralled with Topre switches, like you. But I have several 60% boards (Duck Viper, GH60, winkeyless.kr FaceW), and I use HHKB layout on all of them. I find it very difficult to transition back to standard ANSI on a 60%. I can use it on TKL and full size boards, but something about the 60% size has my fingers reaching for the HHKB layout key positions.

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: wakamoe on Tue, 19 May 2015, 11:51:57

Thank you so much for your input! I have never used the HHKB layout for an extended period of time. I might put this project on hold till my pok3r ships our during June to test out the layout before moving forward.

I am also feeling the same way for the arrow key as I feel that it "takes away" from the HHKB look as the bottom 2 sides on the HHKB is empty. I swapped the shift and ctrl's position from the standard HHKB layout as it is that way on a normal keyboard(orientation wise) . What you said about the shift being in the normal position is really true. I will have to reconsider the current shift and control's position.

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 19 May 2015, 17:53:23

I like this guy. He asks for feedback and then actually listens to it. Way to go, OP.

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: wakamoe on Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:01:22

Hi all!

Have been messing alittle bit more with the layout and what you said about the shift key is true. I think it would be hard for my fingers to adjust to the new placement of normally used keys. So I have also shifted the Alt down and placed another fn to replaced it's old position. However now I got a problem. I am still really new to using inventor.
(http://i.imgur.com/h0d7AvH.png)

Can anyone help me make a 2d drawing for my baseplate that is possible to be loaded into inventor so I can do a 3D mock up of my case? Also, how do I make sure that the drawing is to size(Actual mm size)?

Here is the code for Keyboard Layout Editor.

["esc","1\n!\n\n\nf1","2\n@\n\n\nf2","3\n#\n\n\nf3","4\n$\n\n\nf4","5\n%\n\n\nf5","6\n^\n\n\nf6","7\n&\n\n\nf7","8\n*\n\n\nf8","9\n(\n\n\nf9","0\n)\n\n\nf10","_\n-\n\n\nf11","+\n=\n\n\nf12","|\n\\","~\n`"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab\n\n\n\ncaps","q","w","e","r","t","y","u","i\n\n\n\nprint","o\n\n\n\nscrl lck","p\n\n\n\nPause","{\n[\n\n\n↑","}\n]",{w:1.5},"Backspace"],
[{w:1.75},"CTRL","a","s","d","f","g","h","j\n\n\n\ninsert","k\n\n\n\nhome","l\n\n\n\npageUp",":\n;\n\n\n←","\"\n'\n\n\n→",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:1.25},"Shift","fn","z","x","c","v","b","n","m","<\n,\n\n\nend",">\n.\n\n\npageDn","?\n/\n\n\n↓","shift",{w:1.75},"Del"],
[{x:2.5,w:1.5},"alt",{w:6.25},"",{w2:1.5},"fn"]

When I download the file from Swill's builder and load it into inventor all it gives me is this:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vw603tf.png)

I am more familiar with it looking like this, where I can extract and draw holes and such. the other doesnt seem to allow me to do anything. Or maybe it's just I am unsure how to:
(http://i.imgur.com/yYlOuds.jpg)

Also, when designing a case. How would I go about connecting an adapter from the teensy board to the front of the case as I wont have a PCB to mount it on and where should I go about getting this adapter?
Something like this
(http://i.imgur.com/DDKRdjJ.jpg)

Thank you. All advice are greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:19:54

If you are hand wiring your project I highly recommend you to USE SQUARE HOLES, AND EITHER COSTAR-ONLY OR CHERRY-ONLY STABILIZER CUTOUTS. You want everything to mount to the plate in the most secure way possible.

I believe SparkFun has USB Mini-B breakout boards, if you need something like that to extend your USB connection from the Teensy to another location.

I have attached a 2D CAD drawing of your layout. However, I think you should try the standard HHKB layout (but with a 7u spacebar, instead of a 6u). :)

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: wakamoe on Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:40:42

Ahh thanks! If I swap from a 6.25 to a 7. Where should I buy the space bar from? Ohh ya! I forgotten to say that I wanted Costar only since I've read that cherry's might feel alittle mushy and my current Filco is using Costars too if im not wrong.

Sorry but what do you mean by square holes and for which part? The holes surrounding the board to hold it together?

Do you mean something like this? Where every hole on the outer edge is a square and I just fit a screw in normally?
(http://i.imgur.com/k1dxFgo.jpg)

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:45:56

Quote from: wakamoe on Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:40:42

Ahh thanks! If I swap from a 6.25 to a 7. Where should I buy the space bar from? Ohh ya! I forgotten to say that I wanted Costar only since I've read that cherry's might feel alittle mushy and my current Filco is using Costars too if im not wrong.

Sorry but what do you mean by square holes and for which part? The holes surrounding the board to hold it together?

Do you mean something like this? Where every hole on the outer edge is a square and I just fit a screw in normally?
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/k1dxFgo.jpg)

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/isMvGcD.png)

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: wakamoe on Wed, 20 May 2015, 10:53:14

Ohh i see :)) :)) :))

Thank you for all the help! I will design the case and come back soon!

If anyone has anything to add please do! All advice is appreciated! :D

Title: Re: Need some feedback before continuing on my custom keyboard layout.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 20 May 2015, 11:30:13

Here's a modified HHKB layout, with square switch holes, Costar stabilizers, and 6.25 spacebar / 1.25 bottom row mods. [1.25]-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-[1.25]-[1.25]