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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: Nostril on Wed, 20 May 2015, 22:58:48

Title: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: Nostril on Wed, 20 May 2015, 22:58:48
Available on Massdrop now!
Check it out: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/otaku-kiibodo-pbt-dsa-keycap-set (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/otaku-kiibodo-pbt-dsa-keycap-set)

Coming soon
Join the discussion on Massdrop! (https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Otaku-Kiibodo-DSA-Keyset-Discussion)
Please vote on the base kit and child deals you want if you are interested!


The Child Deals and base kits have been reformatted so that the base kits now fit a 60% keyboard, and there are two available to choose from - a katakana and hiragana base kit.

Last Updated: 6/7/2015
(5/31/2015) Please fill out this second feedback form to help me finalize the design of this set:
http://goo.gl/forms/HK8okq9C8x (http://goo.gl/forms/HK8okq9C8x)
Please fill out this form if you are interested in this set:
http://goo.gl/forms/m5EPUcCtrf (http://goo.gl/forms/m5EPUcCtrf)
(Please fill out the form only once per person interested)
Form closed for now. Another one will be up later.


Expand to see 3D renders of the design:
More
(http://i.imgur.com/MZ5p43a.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/czA5LhL.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/odMhnTz.png)

Base Kits:
Katakana:
(http://i.imgur.com/UMtAtzD.png)
Hiragana:
(http://i.imgur.com/qHzAOmx.png)

Description
The Otaku Kiibodo is inspired by Japan.
The aesthetic is clean and minimalist, with a mix of modern and classic styling cues.

This set is geared mostly towards touch typists, since it has katakana characters for the alphanumeric keys. There will however be child deals for non-touch typists, with Latin characters.

Features

Child Deals
These are currently the child deals that are being considered (please vote for them on Massdrop):
Mockups and more information about child deals for this set can be viewed here:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKiibodoDSA (http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKiibodoDSA)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:01:01
I'm not sure about the keyset, but those are fantastic renders! :)

How did you do them?
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:06:34
I'm not sure about the keyset, but those are fantastic renders! :)

How did you do them?


Thanks! I found this single-unit keycap model (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52886.0) and imported that into Maya, then made a few more keycap sizes by modifying that and modelled a keyboard case. I made a modified version of that 2D keyset graphic, and applied that as a texture for it. Got a friend to make the materials look a bit nicer. I'm a college student studying computer science with an emphasis on game-industry related skills, so that knowledge definitely came in handy!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:36:26
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Hellcatz on Thu, 21 May 2015, 00:15:53
Thats pretty awesome
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Thu, 21 May 2015, 01:41:55
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

Thanks for the feedback!

I haven't tried DSA caps myself - only own DCS caps, but I like the look of them. I don't really like the look of SA caps and have been just seeing a ton of them recently. I wouldn't be opposed to making them DCS if that's more popular though.

I made a quick mockup of those suggestions you had for making them work with dyesub:
(http://i.imgur.com/XBFnLaA.png)

I am personally much more fond of the navy keycaps, but I don't think these look bad. Also I haven't actually seen any dyesub keycaps with more color on them. Do you have any picture references? I would be somewhat concerned about the navy being discolored between the different colored materials.

Also this is probably a stupid question - but is it possible to make the keycaps red and dyesub everything but the legend navy? I would imagine it wouldn't be difficult as long as the printing area is enough to cover the keycap.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: KnivesM on Thu, 21 May 2015, 02:05:53
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

Thanks for the feedback!

I haven't tried DSA caps myself - only own DCS caps, but I like the look of them. I don't really like the look of SA caps and have been just seeing a ton of them recently. I wouldn't be opposed to making them DCS if that's more popular though.

I made a quick mockup of those suggestions you had for making them work with dyesub:
Show Image
(http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/dyesub.png)


I am personally much more fond of the navy keycaps, but I don't think these look bad. Also I haven't actually seen any dyesub keycaps with more color on them. Do you have any picture references? I would be somewhat concerned about the navy being discolored between the different colored materials.

Also this is probably a stupid question - but is it possible to make the keycaps red and dyesub everything but the legend navy? I would imagine it wouldn't be difficult as long as the printing area is enough to cover the keycap.
This I would buy in DCS dyesub. The earlier design for me felt like it was split/conflicting with the boldness of the blue red and the subtlety of the grey. The blue red dyesub has been done but I think the shade of blue navy is would make it impossible in this case. IMSTO's blue red dyesub (http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=62)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: KRKS on Thu, 21 May 2015, 11:20:15
Put Homu on Homu button!  ;D

On a serious note, maybe try using some kanji on the home cluster, I think it the whole keyset would look nicer if it was a bit more simplified. Also, the proper nineball is empty(⑨).
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: derezzed on Thu, 21 May 2015, 11:49:43
I like the revision.  I really like the rising sun on the nav cluster.  Have you considered using kanji in the circles on the function row?  Have you considered using kanji on the modifiers instead of symbols or, if you want to keep the set pure katakana, using furigana instead of symbols?  Although, furigana could make the modifiers look too cluttered if there are a lot of syllables.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: pizza_is_a_lie on Thu, 21 May 2015, 14:37:15
As above. I think I prefer the red and grey... would suit a Ducky with its silver bezel no end... hint hint  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 21 May 2015, 14:40:43
I'm a bit confused OP. I was wondering how much you were quoted for the custom molds if we're doing doubleshots. Or have you decided to got with dyesubs?
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Steezus on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:02:47
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

It sucks that we're limited to the same fonts when it comes to doubleshots unless the community is willing to pay premium price, it'd be nice if we could find a way to make it cheaper.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:08:03
Thanks for the input guys! The general feedback about the colors and profile is definitely noted! Seems like the other color scheme is more popular so it'll probably be like that. I'll try and create a number of color schemes that people seem to like and have them and some profile choices up on a Google form later, to figure out what's popular from there.

Also, if anyone is interested in working with me more closely on this keyset that would be awesome! Just send me a PM.

Put Homu on Homu button!  ;D

On a serious note, maybe try using some kanji on the home cluster, I think it the whole keyset would look nicer if it was a bit more simplified. Also, the proper nineball is empty(⑨).

I have tried putting legends over the rising sun flag with inverted colors - but they look pretty weird, and I really like the rising sun flag. I looked up what some of the words in the home cluster would look like in kanji and I thought they looked a bit complicated and made the thing look a bit cluttered. I'll try and figure out the translations though and come up with a mockup eventually. Are you talking about the F9 key? Haha! I love the idea, but probably not just that key by itself. Maybe I'll save that idea for another keyset!

I like the revision.  I really like the rising sun on the nav cluster.  Have you considered using kanji in the circles on the function row?  Have you considered using kanji on the modifiers instead of symbols or, if you want to keep the set pure katakana, using furigana instead of symbols?  Although, furigana could make the modifiers look too cluttered if there are a lot of syllables.

I made a quick mockup of the kanji characters in the function row.

(http://i.imgur.com/bJmUAqB.jpg)

I think the idea of having kanji on the modifiers can definitely be cool. As far as keeping the set pure katakana - I don't really care much for that, but just thought katakana looked super cool. I think kanji would be the way to go on the modifiers though since they are more condensed and icon-like, which seems fitting for a modifier key.

It'll take me a much longer time to come up with a mockup of those modifiers, but I will work on it. I know nothing about Japanese, so I'll have to figure out the right translations, and also those kanji characters take a much longer time to vectorize than the katakana ones.

I'm a bit confused OP. I was wondering how much you were quoted for the custom molds if we're doing doubleshots. Or have you decided to got with dyesubs?

I have not gotten a quote on it yet - I assumed I would get one when I submitted to PMK. This is my first keyset - so I honestly don't know exactly what I'm doing. I will reach out to them today regarding this!

I read on the Signature Plastics FAQ that the doubleshot legends are limited to line fonts - and it had a document which showed examples of the ones they offer. I've seen other doubleshot keysets with other fonts such as Deep Space, EVE, and Penumbra - so I was assuming these are custom molds since they aren't using one of those fonts in the document? If anyone could clarify this for me, that would be great!

If it turns out being way too expensive with doubleshots, I will definitely go with dyesubs. Also, I will probably go with dyesubs if we go with the beige alphanumeric keys, and if I'm doing dyesub, I might as well use PBT too - so that will be happening if that's the case.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: derezzed on Thu, 21 May 2015, 17:38:55
I finally got the opportunity to use Google translate since making my last post.  It looks like many of the names for the modifiers are foreign words, so they are spelled with katakana.  Many other words are spelled with kanji but I forced Google translate to use katakana.  You should do some research and determine whether you want mixed writing systems on your modifiers or whether you want to use only kanji (may be more complicated and may require some creativity to convert loan words to kanji) or only katakana (easier but some legends will be quite long) before you make the effort to convert additional characters to vector graphics.  The number of kana in the modifier names and the various sizes of the modifier keys could result in the modifier keys having different sized kana. 
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: apathy3cs on Thu, 21 May 2015, 21:56:42
I would also say that DCS is much better to type on (once again preference).

on almost all Japanese keyboards though, they use english for the home cluster.  If you are wanting to do something with it (I candidly love the flag going over it、and nothing else inhibiting), you can try it with these:

Insert: イサーと | 入れる  (Might work best as i (入) for simplification)
Home: ホム | 家 (Literal - residence) | 帰る (Literal - return to home.  Might work best as kai (帰) for this instead of residence)
Page Up: パージ ウプ | パージ上 (It might look better with just ue (上) if you are looking for kanji.)
Delete: デリート | 消す (Literal again)
End: エヌード | 結果 (Kekka = end (result).  You could use 終り (Conclusion) Instead, but either should be usable.)
Page Down: パージ  | パージ下 (Once again it might look better with just ****a (下) if you are looking for kanji )
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: zabuza1997 on Fri, 22 May 2015, 12:45:04
SA please.SA please.DSA sucks  :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 22 May 2015, 14:42:12
Having Japanese labels on any non alpha keys is pretty rare... and it's looks awfully busy and generally kind of bad on the few I have seen that did. I think ICON style is a far better choice. It's nice and clean, and universal.
I like the changes... which of course since I suggested it... of course being cheaper and more possible to get manufacturer for a sane price, I think it says Japan more than the red on navy.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: YMSNoms on Fri, 22 May 2015, 16:47:43
I am all over this gimme gimme gimme
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Sat, 23 May 2015, 01:53:12
I contacted Signature Plastics - it looks like I will be going for dyesub for sure on this set, since I'd have to sell about 150 doubleshot sets to make it reasonable, and the doubleshot legends will not be able to fully cover the tops of the keycaps on the home cluster anyway.

I will be working on a few other color schemes that will also be able to facilitate this, so there will be a few more options to consider.

EDIT 2: Here's some mockups of some changes. Changed the colors of the katakana legends. Made the render actually show a different profile. Please let me know what you think about these changes!

(http://i.imgur.com/0tnDOIZ.jpg)


I will be changing the colors slightly but in a similar way. I would like the red to be the same except in PBT. The closest good looking yellow color would be more orange. The beige is kind of sterile looking to me in the render - so I would want to make it more creamy in color, I would like it to be roughly the color of old parchment paper.
Also, does anyone know of any keysets with a mix of doubleshot and dyesub keys? Wondering if the would sound or look super inconsistent. I was thinking something like this could be cool:

(http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/dyesubAltSym.png)
(http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/dyesubAlt2.fw.png)
(http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/alternateShot2.png)

EDIT 1: Actually - totally forgot that doubleshots would pretty much only be in ABS. So these will be ABS if we do this.


SA please.SA please.DSA sucks  :)) :)) :)) :))

It seems like from the feedback from here this set won't be DSA, so it might be either DCS or SA.

Having Japanese labels on any non alpha keys is pretty rare... and it's looks awfully busy and generally kind of bad on the few I have seen that did. I think ICON style is a far better choice. It's nice and clean, and universal.
I like the changes... which of course since I suggested it... of course being cheaper and more possible to get manufacturer for a sane price, I think it says Japan more than the red on navy.

I am curious as to what you think about the kanji characters for the function row?
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Sat, 23 May 2015, 03:40:38
Made some more changes. Just changed navy to black. Changed the colors to PBT colors - which still aren't final. Not sure on the escape key right now. I would like the beige color (GQN) to be a bit less green - so I might look for another similar color here. Changed which of the FN keys are red and beige to make each section of the keyboard more distinct.

(http://i.imgur.com/zqvh3Ps.jpg)

EDIT: Here's some renders:
(http://i.imgur.com/60DzPBt.png)
Black Legends

(http://i.imgur.com/OThbSo0.png)
Red Legends

EDIT 2: I decided I didn't like the red FN keys after seeing those renders, so I changed them back. Here's some more renders:

(http://i.imgur.com/vrhLTxA.jpg)
Black Legends without red FN

(http://i.imgur.com/KODztTd.jpg)
Red Legends without red FN
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: pizza_is_a_lie on Sat, 23 May 2015, 05:01:12
The black legends one above looks insanely better than the red legends, IMO
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Sat, 23 May 2015, 05:14:50
The black legends one above looks insanely better than the red legends, IMO

I agree. The black legends one reminds me a lot of those airplane models that Japan Airlines used to give out for free on their flights - I have a couple of those in my house and the white colors on them have aged to be a similar color to the beige on this keyboard. I like that!

Here's a few more edits for the mockup - now I have the white function keys again. Made the number icons red again, while leaving the katakana black.

(http://i.imgur.com/HU8OxIY.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sat, 23 May 2015, 20:47:54
Those 3D models are awesome! Been trying to learn Blender to be able to make some for my current (possibly future?) keycap sets. Not an easy task, but yours look amazing.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: KnivesM on Sun, 24 May 2015, 00:30:06
Oooh I like the red legends version with the Red FN  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: just66in on Sun, 24 May 2015, 04:16:30
wow if only the red on navy wld work w doubleshots. They look great imo
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: nilpt on Sun, 24 May 2015, 05:09:40
Like this idea very much and would like to see ISO (even JIS?) options.
Why keep those latin numerals?
What about a numpad (no latin of course...)?
Homing key indicators in various flavors (bump, deep dish) would be nice.
 :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Sun, 24 May 2015, 07:24:37
Like this idea very much and would like to see ISO (even JIS?) options.
Why keep those latin numerals?
What about a numpad (no latin of course...)?
Homing key indicators in various flavors (bump, deep dish) would be nice.
 :thumb:

I am actually currently working on all of these options. You can see my progress here: http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html (http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html). I'm still working on the numpad sets (that numlock key definitely won't say "locku" haha!), the ISO kit, and all the other kits that have no image. Also, could someone please tell me what keys exactly should be included with the ISO kit? I have never owned an ISO keyboard, so I've been looking it up and have been finding all sorts of things. I'll probably put in the bump homing indicators as you suggested.

I considered removing those Latin numerals. I guess my reason for keeping them is mostly because of my own experience. I do a lot of coding and my main keyboard has blank keycaps. I find it somewhat hard to quickly locate a key on the numrow, especially when looking for a special character, without moving all of my fingers up. Otherwise, I don't really have any problems finding any other keys, so I thought this would help. Perhaps this is just a personal issue. Maybe this will be less of an issue with this set since there would still be katakana characters that I could associate with. I'll consider this. I would love to hear other people's input on this as well!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: pizza_is_a_lie on Sun, 24 May 2015, 08:45:54
You have the correct mods for ISO on your website, just lacking a 2 with " and a 3 with the £  :thumb:

Consider making the beige keys a grey, perhaps to match the Ducky Mini silver bezel?  :p
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: nilpt on Sun, 24 May 2015, 08:47:11
... Also, could someone please tell me what keys exactly should be included with the ISO kit? I have never owned an ISO keyboard, so I've been looking it up and have been finding all sorts of things. I'll probably put in the bump homing indicators as you suggested.
I think normally accepted ISO keys are from a UK layout because they are most close to the US layout.
Your current http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/childdeals/ISO.png (http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/childdeals/ISO.png)
is missing the AltGr option and have an "extra" numrow key., and is too "western". I think "westen" symbols should not be used at all, even in the numpad, must you use: "# ÷ x - +"?


I considered removing those Latin numerals. I guess my reason for keeping them is mostly because of my own experience. I do a lot of coding and my main keyboard has blank keycaps. I find it somewhat hard to quickly locate a key on the numrow, especially when looking for a special character, without moving all of my fingers up. Otherwise, I don't really have any problems finding any other keys, so I thought this would help. Perhaps this is just a personal issue. Maybe this will be less of an issue with this set since there would still be katakana characters that I could associate with. I'll consider this. I would love to hear other people's input on this as well!
I see this set for a western touch typist and personally prefer no latin characters whatsoever...
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Mon, 25 May 2015, 01:59:46
You have the correct mods for ISO on your website, just lacking a 2 with " and a 3 with the £  :thumb:

Consider making the beige keys a grey, perhaps to match the Ducky Mini silver bezel?  tongue emoticon

I was thinking since the 2 and 3 keys didn't normally have special characters labelled, it wouldn't make sense to include them in the ISO kit (besides working for the latin alphanumeric characters child deal I guess).

I'm actually pretty happy with the colors right now, but I'll play around with them and post something if it looks good.


... Also, could someone please tell me what keys exactly should be included with the ISO kit? I have never owned an ISO keyboard, so I've been looking it up and have been finding all sorts of things. I'll probably put in the bump homing indicators as you suggested.
I think normally accepted ISO keys are from a UK layout because they are most close to the US layout.
Your current http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/childdeals/ISO.png (http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/childdeals/ISO.png)
is missing the AltGr option and have an "extra" numrow key., and is too "western". I think "westen" symbols should not be used at all, even in the numpad, must you use: "# � x - +"?


I considered removing those Latin numerals. I guess my reason for keeping them is mostly because of my own experience. I do a lot of coding and my main keyboard has blank keycaps. I find it somewhat hard to quickly locate a key on the numrow, especially when looking for a special character, without moving all of my fingers up. Otherwise, I don't really have any problems finding any other keys, so I thought this would help. Perhaps this is just a personal issue. Maybe this will be less of an issue with this set since there would still be katakana characters that I could associate with. I'll consider this. I would love to hear other people's input on this as well!
I see this set for a western touch typist and personally prefer no latin characters whatsoever...

Thanks for the clarification! Since the alt keys are icons in this set, then I wouldn't think the kit would need a distinct AltGr keycap. Correct me if I'm wrong though. The numlock key is going to change, but I'm still trying to design a nice icon for it. Would you suggest I use "/ * - +" instead then? I like the "÷ x - +" in that they are pretty squarely proportional which makes them fit the look of the other icon-like legends.

Yeah, I guess getting rid of the latin numbers makes a lot of sense, especially when the function row has number legends in kanji. I will leave them on the latin alphanumerics child deal though - since it's for non-touch typists.

New renders with numbers removed:
(http://i.imgur.com/ebHXpPu.png)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Evo_Spec on Mon, 25 May 2015, 03:58:13
Very cool! Great job.

I actually had a similar idea that I never shared because I didn't want to organize a gb or go through the work of finalizing the design lol
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: nilpt on Mon, 25 May 2015, 05:02:39

Thanks for the clarification! Since the alt keys are icons in this set, then I wouldn't think the kit would need a distinct AltGr keycap. Correct me if I'm wrong though. The numlock key is going to change, but I'm still trying to design a nice icon for it. Would you suggest I use "/ * - +" instead then? I like the "÷ x - +" in that they are pretty squarely proportional which makes them fit the look of the other icon-like legends.


The AltGr is just a small detail, for me you can leave them both as Alt.
Better ask an hardcore ISO user how to manage Alt vs AltGr  ;)
About the numpad operation symbols my question is just regarding the symbols being "western", not "÷" vs "/" or "x" vs "*". Would prefer "nice icons" for them...
This new render looks very nice.
Good job.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Mon, 25 May 2015, 05:36:30

Thanks for the clarification! Since the alt keys are icons in this set, then I wouldn't think the kit would need a distinct AltGr keycap. Correct me if I'm wrong though. The numlock key is going to change, but I'm still trying to design a nice icon for it. Would you suggest I use "/ * - +" instead then? I like the "÷ x - +" in that they are pretty squarely proportional which makes them fit the look of the other icon-like legends.


The AltGr is just a small detail, for me you can leave them both as Alt.
Better ask an hardcore ISO user how to manage Alt vs AltGr  ;)
About the numpad operation symbols my question is just regarding the symbols being "western", not "÷" vs "/" or "x" vs "*". Would prefer "nice icons" for them...
This new render looks very nice.
Good job.

Hmm, I'm trying to think of what that would look like. I was thinking everything that isn't Japanese characters in this set would be universal icons, and I think "÷ x - +" are pretty universal icons for what they are. I'm wondering what you had in mind?
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: nilpt on Mon, 25 May 2015, 06:06:17
I had in mind, just japanese characters for every key  :)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Mon, 25 May 2015, 06:26:00
I had in mind, just japanese characters for every key  :)

I checked out Google translate, and it looks like Japanese translations for multiply, divide, minus/subtract, plus/add are pretty cluttered, even in Kanji. I think they wouldn't fit well especially on a single-unit keycap. Sorry about this, but I don't think this would work well.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Mon, 25 May 2015, 06:34:15
Interest form is up! Please fill it out to help me gauge interest, and finalize a few design decisions and the child deals.  :thumb:

Link to the form: http://goo.gl/forms/m5EPUcCtrf (http://goo.gl/forms/m5EPUcCtrf)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Evo_Spec on Mon, 25 May 2015, 22:16:40
Sorry I kinda submitted the form and thought about this after but is anyone else not a fan on the dot Kanji for the numbers? I personally would prefer the regular Kanji letters like in the numpad kit for the regular set.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: apathy3cs on Tue, 26 May 2015, 00:40:04
I kind of find it amusing with the circle due to touhou, and the ⑨ they use in relation.  from a view perspective I like that it's different, but I could see that it might make things hard to read.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Tue, 26 May 2015, 18:33:54
Sorry I kinda submitted the form and thought about this after but is anyone else not a fan on the dot Kanji for the numbers? I personally would prefer the regular Kanji letters like in the numpad kit for the regular set.

I personally prefer the circles for the differentiation - especially since they would just be the same legends as the numpad without them. Tried them though, and doesn't look bad without the circles either:

(http://i.imgur.com/9nP83Bt.png)

I put up a question for this on the interest form to gather opinions on this. If you have an opinion for or against it, and have already submitted your form, please just go ahead and resubmit another form with neutral opinions toward all the questions (wherever you can, anyway) and note that the form is a resubmission for the circles decision in the additional comments section. That would be highly appreciated!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors (Interest Form Up!)
Post by: Tiramisuu on Tue, 26 May 2015, 19:46:06
Some price ranges would help with the interest check.

I regularly see pictures I might be interested in and then someone quote 95$ us a set plus shipping and I quickly lose interest :)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors (Interest Form Up!)
Post by: ceflame on Tue, 26 May 2015, 23:13:04
I'm actually really interested in this.

Are you 100% set on using katakana for the alphas?

I would rather have hiragana, similar to how Japanese keyboards have it. Do you think you could do a mockup for it?
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors (Interest Form Up!)
Post by: Nostril on Thu, 28 May 2015, 20:23:15
Some price ranges would help with the interest check.

I regularly see pictures I might be interested in and then someone quote 95$ us a set plus shipping and I quickly lose interest :)

From the results of what I have gathered with the interest checks so far, it looks like the keyset will be in DSA profile. Here is the price quote I received from Signature Plastics on the 87-key DSA set dyesubbed:

EDIT: Looking at the results again, DSA was the most popular, followed by DCS, followed by SA. I believe many of the people who chose SA would rather have DCS over DSA. In my next feedback form I will limit the choices to DSA or DCS.

25 sets         $98 per set
50 sets         $83 per set
75 sets         $72 per set
100 sets                $69 per set
150 sets                $67 per set
200 sets                $65 per set

However, I am still looking at options on how to sell the set. I am looking to find a platform to help with selling the set. This may or may not be a group buy model. PMK is transitioning to a new model, which I would like to see first. [CTRL]ALT seems to be going through a transitional period with JTKeycaps and all sorts of new stuff. I will settle on design choices and make sure the set is pretty much final (in any design aspects) before I look into this more though. Expect this to take time. The main reason for wanting to find a larger platform to sell the set through is to reduce prices.

I would like to avoid giving estimates on how much the set will be for now, though, since I am sure they would be inaccurate (considering the design has not been completely finalized). I will have another interest form to get a better gauge of this closer to finalization of the set. Sorry for such a vague response!

I'm actually really interested in this.

Are you 100% set on using katakana for the alphas?

I would rather have hiragana, similar to how Japanese keyboards have it. Do you think you could do a mockup for it?

I thought of this too, and I am fond of the idea as well. Sure, I'll do a mockup for it - might take a while though. I will probably have another feedback form up after this and any other possible changes to finalize the design.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
Post by: Nostril on Fri, 29 May 2015, 22:45:55
Here's a mockup of the Hiragana:

(http://i.imgur.com/mOUsPrr.png)


Here's another mockup of the Katakana. I cleaned up how the characters look and did some research so that it should work fully with actual kana input:
(http://i.imgur.com/dtVLf77.png)

I think I do still like the look of katakana more, but again, I will leave this up to a second poll.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
Post by: ceflame on Sat, 30 May 2015, 00:03:46
Show Image
Here's a mockup of the Hiragana:

(http://i.imgur.com/mOUsPrr.png) (http://i.imgur.com/mOUsPrr.png)



Here's another mockup of the Katakana. I cleaned up how the characters look and did some research so that it should work fully with actual kana input:
(http://i.imgur.com/dtVLf77.png) (http://i.imgur.com/dtVLf77.png)

I think I do still like the look of katakana more, but again, I will leave this up to a second poll.

I really like the Hiragana mockup.
Katakana just feels really weird to read as a whole.. so I guess I might be a bit biased compared to those that can't read it.

I'm just sad that the set ended up as DSA since I wanted to move away from that profile, but I think in the end this design would look nicest as pbt dye-subbed DSA, especially with the rising sun graphic.

Also not a huge fan of the off-colored esc key as part of the base set, just feels really awkward for me.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
Post by: simonyunhe on Sun, 31 May 2015, 11:23:41
Really like the mod, simple and easy to read. The f1-12 key not that good for me, how about try letter like 一, 二, 三, 四, 五...
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
Post by: NeonBacon on Sun, 31 May 2015, 17:50:01
I like it, though I'd have preferred it to have hiragana and maybe a different profile.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
Post by: Nostril on Sun, 31 May 2015, 22:18:46
Here is another feedback form to help me finalize the design. Please fill this out if you are interested in this set! This form is nice and short.

http://goo.gl/forms/PxUVuei99F (http://goo.gl/forms/PxUVuei99F)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 31 May 2015, 22:39:48
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

Who can manufacture actual Cherry profile caps?  GMK of course, and JTK now which is great.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 31 May 2015, 22:46:00
When it comes to child deals feel free to copy any of the Jukebox ones. Nothing groundbreaking there by any means, but I tried to get them at a good price point and concentrate on ones that had interest. Wilba was a huge help to me on those, he and Engicoder both have very good eyes in terms of what to include for child deals.

I wouldn't worry about child deals too much at first though, it would just be a hassle to do more renders every time you changed something. I think the set in general has really started to look exceptional though. Nice to see you taking advice from the community as well  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 01 June 2015, 02:58:50
Interesting.. That is the first time I have seen Katakana legends on a keyboard. I know that each Katakana glyph has a direct corresponding glyph in Hiragana. Is the Katakana layout corresponding to the layout of Hiragana on a regular Japanese keyboard?

BTW, "Otaku" was slang for blank keyboards for a little while. The use faded.
BTW 2. I am a little surprised that nobody from an Asian country other than Japan hasn't complained about the use of the Japanese Naval flag. There is a lot of hatred towards it because it represents Japanese occupation and oppression during WWII.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: Bull1919 on Mon, 01 June 2015, 17:41:21
Hi, I just saw this set, and noticed that it was a bit similar to the set that I've been working on at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72105.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72105.0). Seeing as we'd probably be releasing them to the SP interest check at around the same time, It might create a conflict of interest. Just something we probably need to think about.

Edit: If we somehow incorporated both sets into one interest check, say, by adding the modifiers that I'm using as a child deal to your set, it could eliminate the conflict of interest.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: Nostril on Mon, 01 June 2015, 18:04:13
Interesting.. That is the first time I have seen Katakana legends on a keyboard. I know that each Katakana glyph has a direct corresponding glyph in Hiragana. Is the Katakana layout corresponding to the layout of Hiragana on a regular Japanese keyboard?

BTW, "Otaku" was slang for blank keyboards for a little while. The use faded.
BTW 2. I am a little surprised that nobody from an Asian country other than Japan hasn't complained about the use of the Japanese Naval flag. There is a lot of hatred towards it because it represents Japanese occupation and oppression during WWII.

Yes, the Katakana layout corresponds to the Hiragana layout on a regular Japanese Keyboard.

Hi, I just saw this set, and noticed that it was a bit similar to the set that I've been working on at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72105.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72105.0). Seeing as we'd probably be releasing them to the SP interest check at around the same time, It might create a conflict of interest. Just something we probably need to think about.

Edit: If we somehow incorporated both sets into one interest check, say, by adding the modifiers that I'm using as a child deal to your set, it could eliminate the conflict of interest.

Yeah, our sets are similar, and I agree that we should talk about that. Sending you a PM!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: Nostril on Fri, 05 June 2015, 04:45:46
Here's a render of the revised layout:

(http://i.imgur.com/IzKEOa3.png)

... and a render of the Hiragana:
(http://i.imgur.com/plDrtYW.jpg)


Again, please fill out the second feedback form. The second form (this one) is different from the first one. Here's the link again: http://goo.gl/forms/LfMHa1QJd6

Also not a huge fan of the off-colored esc key as part of the base set, just feels really awkward for me.
There will definitely at least be a regular colored esc key in the base set - maybe I'll make the off-colored one separate though. I am thinking I might have a color mod kit which would have the off color stuff as well as the red function row accents, and maybe some other stuff. The 2D graphic in the OP should show what I plan to include in the base set as of now.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: LieutenantJesus on Fri, 05 June 2015, 20:43:36
Hey dude! Love the set! I was planning on picking up a set in both the Japanese and the Latin for myself, and possibly a set for my sister.

I'm digging the Katanaka, but I'd go either way. The black legends, to me, look SO much better than the red ones. I also like the yellow-orange escape key, adds a little bit of variety to the layout.

Your renders are great, really helped put it in my mind. I think everyone should do renders, haha. Definitely looking forward to this set, though!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: Nostril on Sat, 06 June 2015, 00:38:09
Thanks for filling out the form everyone! More responses will always still help. From the poll so far, it's very clear that black legends are the more popular option (78.3% black to 17.4% red to 4.3% no preference). I could still use more feedback about the other aspects of it since there isn't as strong as a consensus on those.

Also, for those that put they are "Not interested" in the form, I appreciate your input a lot, and I do still take it into consideration. The more opinions, the better. I'd still like some more responses (Guests viewing this thread - I would love to hear your feedback as well!).

Hey dude! Love the set! I was planning on picking up a set in both the Japanese and the Latin for myself, and possibly a set for my sister.

I'm digging the Katanaka, but I'd go either way. The black legends, to me, look SO much better than the red ones. I also like the yellow-orange escape key, adds a little bit of variety to the layout.

Your renders are great, really helped put it in my mind. I think everyone should do renders, haha. Definitely looking forward to this set, though!

Glad that you like it!

I also really like the black legends, and it seems to be the popular opinion. I will definitely include the yellow-orange escape key in at least a child deal, and it will probably be in the base kit as well.

The renders can be tough work but yeah, they definitely are worth it.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: Nostril on Sun, 07 June 2015, 07:32:52
I have decided to change the home cluster in the base kit to be more standard icon modifiers. The Windows key legend has also been changed to a more standard icon modifier. This is because the Rising Sun graphic seems to be a polarizing decision - people seem to love it or hate it, so it will only be included as a child deal. Of course, I do not intend for any parts of the keyset to be offensive, but I think the Rising Sun flag is a cool looking option which I am sure some people will enjoy as a child deal.

I have also added F and J deep dish homing keys to the core set.

Here is the new core set:
(http://i.imgur.com/wRbudFx.png)

Hiragana:
(http://i.imgur.com/SyJrrGr.png)

I have also reworked the child deals. These are not final, but they should be much closer to what will be available:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html (http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: derezzed on Mon, 08 June 2015, 21:55:29
I have decided to change the home cluster in the base kit to be more standard icon modifiers. The Windows key legend has also been changed to a more standard icon modifier. This is because the Rising Sun graphic seems to be a polarizing decision - people seem to love it or hate it, so it will only be included as a child deal. Of course, I do not intend for any parts of the keyset to be offensive, but I think the Rising Sun flag is a cool looking option which I am sure some people will enjoy as a child deal.

I have also added F and J deep dish homing keys to the core set.

Here is the new core set:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/wRbudFx.png)


Hiragana:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/SyJrrGr.png)


I have also reworked the child deals. These are not final, but they should be much closer to what will be available:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html (http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html)

I probably won't be able to get in on this unless there is a round 2, but I love everything about this set except the legends on the modifiers -- specifically, the shift keys, tab key, caps lock key, and control keys.  The kana look great and I can't decide which one I like better.  The orange escape key is a nice contrast and the kanji on the function row look fantastic.  I'm sorry to see the Rising Sun flag get cut but I understand the reason for that.  I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 

Japan's modern flag is such a simple design (maybe too simple?), it seems a shame not to have it as one of the 1.5u or 1.25u modifier keys, even though it wouldn't be consistent with the rest of the modifiers.
[attach=1]
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Core Kit/Child Deals(6/7/2015)
Post by: blastoid on Tue, 09 June 2015, 07:47:25
Hey, Nostril, I'm jumping in a bit late, but just wanted to say that I really this set is great! I've got a very similar thing going, but with Cyrillic labeling.

One point I wanted to bring up, it doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned the fact that SP does not offer dyesub on SA keycaps, not sure why. (Note on the spec sheet (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/SAFamily.pdf), only "two shot" and pad printing are offered.) Double-shot is an option, and it opens up the color possibilities, but SP's cost to strike a new brass legend plate is $45 per legend, which would make the up-front cost very high, although it would drop sharply as quantities rise, basically what we're seeing now with Modern Selectric.

tl;dr, if you're going with dyesub, SA is out.

To me, one of the best things about DSA is that the caps can be swapped out any way you like. I'm typing this on a Pok3r with DSA Dolch, where I have the numpad kit installed as a mono-legend number row, numpad + for my backspace key, etc. Previously, I've used the nav keys to map out the Fn layer.

On a set like this one, where the legends purely exist for novelty, there is very little reason to cap-swap, so a sculpted profile makes more sense to me. But with SA not an option, that only leaves DCS, but I hear complaints about the thickness.

Sorry to be raising problems without solutions!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Core Kit/Child Deals(6/7/2015)
Post by: Nostril on Tue, 09 June 2015, 20:08:57
I have decided to change the home cluster in the base kit to be more standard icon modifiers. The Windows key legend has also been changed to a more standard icon modifier. This is because the Rising Sun graphic seems to be a polarizing decision - people seem to love it or hate it, so it will only be included as a child deal. Of course, I do not intend for any parts of the keyset to be offensive, but I think the Rising Sun flag is a cool looking option which I am sure some people will enjoy as a child deal.

I have also added F and J deep dish homing keys to the core set.

Here is the new core set:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/wRbudFx.png)


Hiragana:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/SyJrrGr.png)


I have also reworked the child deals. These are not final, but they should be much closer to what will be available:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html (http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html)

I probably won't be able to get in on this unless there is a round 2, but I love everything about this set except the legends on the modifiers -- specifically, the shift keys, tab key, caps lock key, and control keys.  The kana look great and I can't decide which one I like better.  The orange escape key is a nice contrast and the kanji on the function row look fantastic.  I'm sorry to see the Rising Sun flag get cut but I understand the reason for that.  I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 

Japan's modern flag is such a simple design (maybe too simple?), it seems a shame not to have it as one of the 1.5u or 1.25u modifier keys, even though it wouldn't be consistent with the rest of the modifiers.
(Attachment Link)

I'll definitely check out how it would look to have the modern Japan flag as a keycap. I tried doing it before and it kinda just looked like a red circle as a legend, and somehow didn't strike me as looking like a flag at all, haha. Maybe it will look better in person, so I'll check out what it looked like in render.

Hey, Nostril, I'm jumping in a bit late, but just wanted to say that I really this set is great! I've got a very similar thing going, but with Cyrillic labeling.

One point I wanted to bring up, it doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned the fact that SP does not offer dyesub on SA keycaps, not sure why. (Note on the spec sheet (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/SAFamily.pdf), only "two shot" and pad printing are offered.) Double-shot is an option, and it opens up the color possibilities, but SP's cost to strike a new brass legend plate is $45 per legend, which would make the up-front cost very high, although it would drop sharply as quantities rise, basically what we're seeing now with Modern Selectric.

tl;dr, if you're going with dyesub, SA is out.

To me, one of the best things about DSA is that the caps can be swapped out any way you like. I'm typing this on a Pok3r with DSA Dolch, where I have the numpad kit installed as a mono-legend number row, numpad + for my backspace key, etc. Previously, I've used the nav keys to map out the Fn layer.

On a set like this one, where the legends purely exist for novelty, there is very little reason to cap-swap, so a sculpted profile makes more sense to me. But with SA not an option, that only leaves DCS, but I hear complaints about the thickness.

Sorry to be raising problems without solutions!

Thanks for all the feedback and information! By the time I realized SA couldn't really work it was already out from the results of the first feedback form anyway, so I guess that worked out.

I'll be going with DSA for this keyset, for some of the reasons you mentioned. Someone also mentioned in the second feedback form that the set might work well mixed with some existing DSA sets. Also, from the second feedback form it is the most popular choice by a bit (45.5% prefer DSA, 36.4% prefer DCS, 9.1% no preference).

As far as cap swapping I think it would be useful for covering less conventional layouts without having to use too many blank keys. I also put on the numpad child kits extra keys for "0", "10", "11", "12", so you can use them as mono legends in the numrow like what you did or use them in the function row for people who didn't really like the circles thing going on in the function row.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Core Kit/Child Deals(6/7/2015)
Post by: minTea on Thu, 11 June 2015, 21:55:54
The keyset looks really good!  I think if you basically added the color mods that Bull1919's set has and had those as a child deal it would be really cool.  The blue and green he has in his set look so good!  Honestly I prefer his shade of red as well but yours looks good too.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Core Kit/Child Deals(6/7/2015)
Post by: Nostril on Fri, 12 June 2015, 03:10:35
The keyset looks really good!  I think if you basically added the color mods that Bull1919's set has and had those as a child deal it would be really cool.  The blue and green he has in his set look so good!  Honestly I prefer his shade of red as well but yours looks good too.

His set is very nice. We considered doing this, but ultimately decided not to since his modifiers require doubleshot legends, while mine are PBT dyesublimation. I think this will be just really confusing. Also, I would like to offer my core kit as at least an 87-key set, and I think having to get his modifiers as an extra child deal would make the set cost more than people would like if they wanted his modifiers. I think it would be better to keep the sets separate and spacing the interest checks and group buys out.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: apathy3cs on Sun, 14 June 2015, 02:12:07
I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 


I wouldn't actually say that it's like our confederate flag.  Keep in mind that America stripped Japan at the end of WWII of this flag and the new one was used as a 'rebirth' of the nation, more or less.  There was no internal civil war like the union v confederates.  The flag is still used today by the Maritime Defense Force, but it's not the 'national' flag for Japan.  I will note it can be offensive though to Chinese and Koreans though, due to the atrocities of the war. (Keep in mind those that would be theoretically those directly affected by the war, and therefore would be in their 60s to waaaay older).  The fact that it is used so visibly I think we should be fine with the rays.
(http://i.imgur.com/bEiwXtE.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Core Kit/Child Deals(6/7/2015)
Post by: zabuza1997 on Sun, 14 June 2015, 07:11:36
I hope this will merge with Hosho.That's gonna be a nice collab
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
Post by: derezzed on Fri, 19 June 2015, 00:10:51
I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 


I wouldn't actually say that it's like our confederate flag.  Keep in mind that America stripped Japan at the end of WWII of this flag and the new one was used as a 'rebirth' of the nation, more or less.  There was no internal civil war like the union v confederates.  The flag is still used today by the Maritime Defense Force, but it's not the 'national' flag for Japan.  I will note it can be offensive though to Chinese and Koreans though, due to the atrocities of the war. (Keep in mind those that would be theoretically those directly affected by the war, and therefore would be in their 60s to waaaay older).  The fact that it is used so visibly I think we should be fine with the rays.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/bEiwXtE.jpg)


I did not mean to imply that the Rising Sun flag represents a split within the Japanese nation but, rather, like the Confederate flag represents a culture that committed many atrocities against people, the Rising Sun flag represents a nation (for a period of time) whose military also committed many atrocities against people (notably, its neighbors).  I really like the Rising Sun design, but knowing that some people may find it offensive (for legitimate reasons) would make me hesitant to put it on my keyboard. But I probably won't be joining the group buy for this set, so consider my input from that context.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Fri, 19 June 2015, 21:03:56
At this point, I am pretty much just waiting for PMK to accept new submissions again, and I will put up this keyset and the child deals when it is available.

To clarify, this set will not be merged with Hosho.

The Rising Sun flag will not be included in the core set, but as a child deal. I am thinking that having it as a child deal would not veer people away from being interested in it if they did not like the flag (let me know if I am wrong though). With PMKs new system, people will be able to vote for it like they would normally for any other interest check, so if it has enough demand then it will be available. Like I said, this is not intended to be offensive. I am keeping it as a possible child deal option because from the feedback I received, it seems there is a good number of people who like it. I am a second-generation Chinese American but I am not offended by it, and like the look of it, but wouldn't mind if it wasn't available. Of course I do understand why this view may not be shared, as I am definitely of a younger generation and born and raised in America. I see valid points for both keeping and removing it, which is why I am taking this approach.

Nothing in the set is actually supposed to be an accurate representation of any culture, hence the silly name "Otaku Keyboardu" and such. I know that many of these discussions about representation will be forever controversial, so I would like to avoid it in this thread, but rather I would like to hear input on if this would affect your personal interest in the keyset itself or if you would be interested in it as a child deal. Personally, I just want to make a nice keyset that people like that has some cool mono-legend Japanese characters.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: rioc on Tue, 07 July 2015, 14:12:01
really nice set =)

would definitely go for one
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Happylomo on Fri, 17 July 2015, 21:01:42
So what's the final layout design, Nostril? The katakana layout in the OP?

Looking forward for the GB, man  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Mon, 20 July 2015, 09:30:16
So what's the final layout design, Nostril? The katakana layout in the OP?

Looking forward for the GB, man  :thumb:

The replies I got from the feedback forms on the legends actually end up to be pretty much even votes between katakana and hiragana, for the people who do have a preference. Since I personally prefer the katakana, I will be going with that for the initial group buy. I really would like to be able to offer the hiragana legends as well, but I think that would be a stretch for now.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Happylomo on Mon, 20 July 2015, 19:32:03
Yeah, both of them looks equally nice, tbh. But i'm also leaning towards the katakana layout. Will this keyset support 1.75u + 1u right shift, btw?
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 20 July 2015, 23:36:51
Looks very nice, would definitely buy if I can pull together the money.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Wed, 12 August 2015, 03:33:52
I have been talking with Massdrop and we are planning to drop this keyset. First of all, the set might have a name change to make it more appealing - haven't decided on it yet though, PM me if you have any suggestions! For the drop, we will be changing the base set to be only the alphanumeric characters. We are planning for there to be two options for the base kit - one with katakana and one with hiragana characters - hopefully this will please everyone who is interested in the set!

Also, we would still like to do an interest check on Massdrop to get some numbers, so I will be putting a poll up soon. Hope you guys are excited as I am!  :D
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 12 August 2015, 08:12:06
I have been talking with Massdrop and we are planning to drop this keyset. First of all, the set might have a name change to make it more appealing - haven't decided on it yet though, PM me if you have any suggestions! For the drop, we will be changing the base set to be only the alphanumeric characters. We are planning for there to be two options for the base kit - one with katakana and one with hiragana characters - hopefully this will please everyone who is interested in the set!

Also, we would still like to do an interest check on Massdrop to get some numbers, so I will be putting a poll up soon. Hope you guys are excited as I am!  :D
Wow, so this is some news! That's awesome to hear
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: KRKS on Wed, 12 August 2015, 08:41:13
Massdrop

Well there goes my purchase of this.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: just66in on Wed, 12 August 2015, 09:30:23
I have been talking with Massdrop and we are planning to drop this keyset. First of all, the set might have a name change to make it more appealing - haven't decided on it yet though, PM me if you have any suggestions! For the drop, we will be changing the base set to be only the alphanumeric characters. We are planning for there to be two options for the base kit - one with katakana and one with hiragana characters - hopefully this will please everyone who is interested in the set!

Also, we would still like to do an interest check on Massdrop to get some numbers, so I will be putting a poll up soon. Hope you guys are excited as I am!  :D

Awwwwwww yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: E3E on Wed, 12 August 2015, 17:20:17
Damn, this one is looking good. This, if everything comes out right, would be my first DSA set, and I might consider buying the entire set because it's just that good. :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: zeta on Fri, 14 August 2015, 00:44:09
Signed up just to say that this looks incredible. Just two questions: When do you think this will hit Massdrop? Is the set still dye-sub PBT? Your website says that it's doubleshot ABS.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: JackMills on Fri, 14 August 2015, 03:00:46
I would need to buy a third keyboard to house these, but this would be so much fun to have.
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
Post by: Nostril on Tue, 18 August 2015, 04:46:43
Signed up just to say that this looks incredible. Just two questions: When do you think this will hit Massdrop? Is the set still dye-sub PBT? Your website says that it's doubleshot ABS.

Sorry for the late reply. I will put the poll up on Massdrop sometime in the next 4 days. I have been pretty busy recently and just wanted to have plenty of free time to respond to things when the poll is up. As for the drop itself, I don't have an ETA yet.

The drop is dyesub PBT. The page you were looking at is probably the outdated one, but I will be sure to update any old info before the poll goes up. Thanks for reminding me!
Title: Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA (Updated August 21, 2015) - Massdrop Poll is Up
Post by: Nostril on Fri, 21 August 2015, 11:01:19
Massdrop poll is up! If you are interested in this keyset, go and vote for your favorite child deals.

https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Otaku-Kiibodo-DSA-Keyset-Discussion (https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Otaku-Kiibodo-DSA-Keyset-Discussion)
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA (Updated August 21, 2015) - Massdrop Poll is Up
Post by: Nostril on Tue, 25 August 2015, 23:35:18
The poll on Massdrop is half way to 200 votes!
Title: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA (Updated August 21, 2015) - Massdrop Poll is Up
Post by: cheebs on Sat, 29 August 2015, 17:40:13
Decided the discussion probably doesn't belong here anyway...  Removed.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA (Updated August 21, 2015) - Massdrop Poll is Up
Post by: Rainbow_ on Fri, 04 September 2015, 21:04:43
as someone who can read Japanese characters, it really confused me when you wrote "otaku" in katakana that looked like the English letters, because all I could read was "ronamuhiri"
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA (Updated August 21, 2015) - Massdrop Poll is Up
Post by: Nostril on Tue, 29 September 2015, 17:39:36
Massdrop says this set will be coming soon! They are currently in the process of getting quotes from Signature Plastics. We would definitely still like to hear your thoughts on the set and child deals in the discussion though. Check it out here: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Otaku-Kiibodo-DSA-Keyset-Discussion
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Coming Soon
Post by: LeandreN on Wed, 30 September 2015, 09:09:22
tfw no ISO
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Coming Soon
Post by: KoalaKaiser on Mon, 05 October 2015, 06:13:50
Really excited for this!
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Coming Soon
Post by: AdmiralSquid on Tue, 06 October 2015, 11:53:21
Pretty cool set, glad you are doing it through Massdrop, they make the whole process very convenient. Im a fan of the non-standard legends on caps, blanks are boring but these are similar but have a unique style.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: Nostril on Wed, 28 October 2015, 12:48:49
The set is now up and available on Massdrop. Be sure to check out the community page (http://www.massdrop.community/mechkeys/otakukiibodu/) to see the drop points.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/otaku-kiibodo-pbt-dsa-keycap-set (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/otaku-kiibodo-pbt-dsa-keycap-set)
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: kaiwwww on Sat, 07 November 2015, 09:23:01
我只希望你的家庭能知道你想用日本帝國主義的軍旗來設計鍵帽
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: E3E on Sat, 07 November 2015, 11:35:08
I guess the decision to pull the imperial flag was a good idea. I think we kind of just gloss over how this could be offensive in our western culture and just associate it with the tendency to love everything Japan these days, but after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard and saying that, while acknowledging its potential offensiveness, it looked cool. It'd just be in poor taste either way. There are definitely people who just dig old military garb from that era without any real sympathies toward the axis groups, but...

Still, just a liiiittle insensitive, and this is coming from someone who really liked the rising sun design.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Sat, 07 November 2015, 15:40:18
I guess the decision to pull the imperial flag was a good idea. I think we kind of just gloss over how this could be offensive in our western culture and just associate it with the tendency to love everything Japan these days, but after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard and saying that, while acknowledging its potential offensiveness, it looked cool. It'd just be in poor taste either way. There are definitely people who just dig old military garb from that era without any real sympathies toward the axis groups, but...

Still, just a liiiittle insensitive, and this is coming from someone who really liked the rising sun design.

Even from a practical standpoint, it was a good idea to remove what is essentially a redundant child pack.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 08:41:09
This has opened the door for every group that gets offended to get keysets censored. Bad idea.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: KRKS on Sun, 08 November 2015, 09:55:38
I mean, it's not like Massdrop has provided multiple reasons to not do things through them before this, right? Or did people forget about bad resistors(or was it diodes), stolen HHKB case, Granite canceling and Smash Adler? Just because leddit hypes them doesn't mean they're good.

Or decent.

Or even worth considering.

But yeah, now you can add danger of potential group buy canceling because of political correctness to that list.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: My_Thoughts on Sun, 08 November 2015, 11:26:19
This has opened the door for every group that gets offended to get keysets censored. Bad idea.

Yup, this opens up a worrying future :(
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: acantha on Sun, 08 November 2015, 12:07:09
This has opened the door for every group that gets offended to get keysets censored. Bad idea.

Yup, this opens up a worrying future :(

cry me a ****ing river. massdrop is a business and theres no good way to do business with that kind of subject matter. its lose lose for them. its not censorship, its just ****ing common sense. i'm so sorry you won't get to have a flag associated with complex topics like industrial scale rape, genocide, and war crimes on your keyboard. that must be so hard for you. massdrop are such bastards for putting their business and common decency first.

guess what? sometimes, the right reaction is for people to be offended and **** to not get done. thats not censorship, thats good judgement checking a bad choice.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: MeltingTeeth on Sun, 08 November 2015, 12:15:59
Banzai!!!
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: BigTinz on Sun, 08 November 2015, 15:03:30
I can't believe PC culture has infiltrated the mechanical keyboard community.

If you don't like something, don't buy it.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 15:35:51
I can't believe PC culture has infiltrated the mechanical keyboard community.

If you don't like something, don't buy it.
Hear, hear. Would love to see the designer do a separate GB outside MD. I'm in for two if he does.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: Lepidus on Sun, 08 November 2015, 16:52:27
Thats why you should never use massdrop to GB your stuff.

Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 17:13:29
SP probably wouldn't have caved, but they might have required a copyright waiver from the Emperor of Japan.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: neverused on Sun, 08 November 2015, 17:26:57


i'm so sorry you won't get to have a flag associated with complex topics like industrial scale rape, genocide, and war crimes on your keyboard. that must be so hard for you. massdrop are such bastards for putting their business and common decency first.

guess what? sometimes, the right reaction is for people to be offended and **** to not get done. thats not censorship, thats good judgement checking a bad choice

1. Chill the **** out and don't be such a ****. It's a perfectly valid opinion and you have no right to get so God damn worked up about it. If he or she feels that way, stfu and don't rain on their parade.

2. Please that flag stands for many things and the ones you listed most every country is guilty of. It's not right or fair but neither is life so put on your big girl panties, take a deep breath, and think about what point you want to make before you type next time. You really want to attribute political correctness to such things? There goes any national flag or emblem. Calm down and get off your ****ing soap box.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: njbair on Sun, 08 November 2015, 17:40:57
SP probably wouldn't have caved, but they might have required a copyright waiver from the Emperor of Japan.
I lol'd.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: atectatifern on Sun, 08 November 2015, 17:47:46
SP probably wouldn't have caved, but they might have required a copyright waiver from the Emperor of Japan.
I lol'd.
Thanks--I'm still smarting a bit from the Nuka Cola fiasco and felt like trying to lighten the mood a little :).
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: tangkims on Sun, 08 November 2015, 17:58:10
.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: building_an_ergo on Sun, 08 November 2015, 18:59:57
after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard

To be fair, it is not just a symbol of Imperial Japan, it is also used by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

It is not like the Nazi Flag which has become a symbol of hatred.

Speaking of Swastikas, you will actually see one (with reversed spin) on almost every street in Japan. It isn't a symbol of hatred in Japan, but a symbol for temples. 
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: neverused on Sun, 08 November 2015, 20:14:29
after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard

To be fair, it is not just a symbol of Imperial Japan, it is also used by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

It is not like the Nazi Flag which has become a symbol of hatred.

Speaking of Swastikas, you will actually see one (with reversed spin) on almost every street in Japan. It isn't a symbol of hatred in Japan, but a symbol for temples.
Native Americans used the swastika, as well as the Finnish prior to the nazis.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: njbair on Sun, 08 November 2015, 21:08:13
after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard

To be fair, it is not just a symbol of Imperial Japan, it is also used by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

It is not like the Nazi Flag which has become a symbol of hatred.

Speaking of Swastikas, you will actually see one (with reversed spin) on almost every street in Japan. It isn't a symbol of hatred in Japan, but a symbol for temples.
Native Americans used the swastika, as well as the Finnish prior to the nazis.
Society loses when we let hatemongers co-opt our symbols. I mean, just because I have a Hitler stache and slaughter innocents, doesn't mean I drive a high-emission German car like Volkswagen.
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: hwood34 on Sun, 08 November 2015, 21:12:44
after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard

To be fair, it is not just a symbol of Imperial Japan, it is also used by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

It is not like the Nazi Flag which has become a symbol of hatred.

Speaking of Swastikas, you will actually see one (with reversed spin) on almost every street in Japan. It isn't a symbol of hatred in Japan, but a symbol for temples.
Native Americans used the swastika, as well as the Finnish prior to the nazis.

You can find it, or some slight variation, in tons of different cultures representing a wide variety of things. Then one guy had to go and ruin the fun...
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: rioc on Wed, 09 March 2016, 02:55:21
So, since they've been delivered now and the modifiers are slightly brighter than in the renders, has anyone tried to dye them a little darker?
If so, how did it turn out? I guess it wouldn't take a that much darker dye to make them more marroon coloured..?
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: Bambino on Thu, 17 March 2016, 14:13:02
Can someone tell me the color codes that were used in this keyset?
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: -pineapple- on Thu, 17 March 2016, 14:21:03
Can someone tell me the color codes that were used in this keyset?

Colors: GQN RBD OBB
Title: Re: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
Post by: MandrewDavis on Wed, 15 June 2016, 19:54:58
If anyone has a spare 6u red spacebar, please extra PM me.