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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dante on Sun, 31 May 2015, 08:40:40
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I've been shopping for a rice cooker (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72379.0) and in my travels I've found some individuals suggesting that certain stainless steel pots made by the Chinese may contain metal recycled from Medical facilities; which consequently may contain radiation in them.
So it got me thinking ... with metal backplates in most mechanical keyboards (minus PCB Mount / HHKB) what's the chance that any of these may contain any significant radiation?
Obviously it would have a much more of a consequence in a rice cooker; but you would still be in close proximity to a keyboard for 8+ hours a day.
Thoughts?
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I have no idea how we'd start to calculate the probability of this unless a good chunk of the forum population have Geiger counters and are willing to conduct random sampling :)
I'd be more worried about getting hit by a ufo piloted by Elvis.
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I think your exposed to more radiation than you realize already but it's in such small amounts it is insignificant.
I've had a few classes about handling nuclear materials.
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If it's made of lead, you might be able to use it for containment of a certain amount of gamma radiation, otherwise you're going to be limited to alpha and beta only. Frankly, though, if you're making a reactor or other device that issues serious amounts of radiation of any kind I'd probably not recommend skimping on shielding by using what you have lying around from keyboard builds.
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I thought this was a tp thread at first.
Your keyboard is not going to give you cancer or radiation poisoning. If you're worried you might be able to protect yourself with a helmet fashioned from tinfoil.
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https://xkcd.com/radiation/
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No, but you may get Ebola from doubleshot keycaps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@dante: Amazon carries low radiation keyboards (http://www.amazon.com/keyboards-Desktop-Professional-gaming-keyboard/dp/B00OLJ7ZRC) so there is really no need to worry.
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You're probably getting more radiation just by sitting here than you are from backplates
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I've given up on preventing exposure to potentially cancer-causing things, because I hear so much about this thing and that thing that I'm exposed to in my everyday life causing cancer. If it happens, it happens, and I can't wait for the lifetime of medical bills afterwards.
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Probably about as much radiation as your typical banana
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I've given up on preventing exposure to potentially cancer-causing things, because I hear so much about this thing and that thing that I'm exposed to in my everyday life causing cancer. If it happens, it happens, and I can't wait for the lifetime of medical bills afterwards.
breathing technically increases your chances of developing cancer.
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i never thought about that.
im glad i didn't buy that keyboard on ebay that was recovered from Chernobyl
even though i wanted those glow in the dark double shot keys.
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Hahahahhaah
Get yourself a geiger counter.. Fun thing to have.
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Have a read if you got the time.
http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/products/106-household/205-radioactive-metals-in-consumer-products
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They'll be things in your house that have far higher radiation. My advice. Stop caring/worrying. People are living so far past their sell by date already its not even funny.
Also look at a radiation comparison chart. You'll see your getting it from all angles.
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You emit more radiation than a piece of steel.
This is about as bad as those people who think that microwaving food or water makes it radio active.
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Have a read if you got the time.
http://www.consumer.org.my/index.php/products/106-household/205-radioactive-metals-in-consumer-products
To put the values in that article into perspective, the level of radiation from a chest x-ray is about 10 days worth of "normal" background exposure. So, if you use the grater for 36 hours straight you'll get about 10 days worth extra radiation. It's not significant, and it seems to be the worst offender they've managed to find.
So, don't be all:
(http://www.bradfox.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/yes_me_worry.jpg)
But rather:
(http://directyourownlife.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/what-me-worry.png?w=250&h=300)
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may contain radiation in them
I'm sorry; being a scientist, this is too painful to read xD .
First of all; radiation isn't something that something else can "contain". It's like saying you can be contaminated by radiation; total bollocks. What we're talking about is something that can EMIT radiation.
Second; there is no appreciable amount of nuclear (as that's the kind we're talking about) radiation emitted from any household object, including your keyboard. Unless you go to Chernobyl and pick up one from the power station you're perfectly safe.
Third; I think you're grossly overestimating the power of radiation. There are three main types of nuclear radiation; alpha, beta, and gamma. Alpha is helium cores, which are quite dangerous but so dense that even air stops it dead in its tracks after just a few centimetres. Beta radiation consists of electrons have slightly longer range, about 30 cm, but can be stopped by thick paper and isn't as harmful. Gamma radiation is probably the most well-known one because it has actual range; great range in fact. However. It has this range because it passes straight through you; for the most part, they do nothing at all.
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may contain radiation in them
I'm sorry; being a scientist, this is too painful to read xD .
First of all; radiation isn't something that something else can "contain". It's like saying you can be contaminated by radiation; total bollocks. What we're talking about is something that can EMIT radiation.
Radiation happens when the nucleus of an atom becomes unstable, and it starts to emit radiation as a result of energy loss due to atomic decay. This energy can start a cascade of nucleus instability in elements that were previously not radioactive (ie. induced radioactivity). This is why the metal used in nuclear reactors, while not part of the nuclear reaction itself, become radioactive. While low level radiation wont lead to a significant amount of induced radiation, it is possible.
People can also become contaminated through exposure to radioactive elements. For example, radioactive iodine is sequestered in the thyroid and can cause damage or destruction to the thyroid gland. You can also spread radioactivity by getting something that is radioactive on your skin. This is why scientists use Geiger counters when working with radioactive substances to ensure that they have not contaminated their skin or work environment. I think you could understand the danger behind becoming contaminated by radiation through nuclear fallout as well. It isnt bullocks: people do get contaminated.
While not specifically "containing" radiation, radioactive elements do in fact contain an unstable nucleus that emits radiation. It isnt the proper nomenclature, but I wouldn't get too hung up about it.
Second; there is no appreciable amount of nuclear (as that's the kind we're talking about) radiation emitted from any household object, including your keyboard. Unless you go to Chernobyl and pick up one from the power station you're perfectly safe.
I wouldnt worry about it either.
Third; I think you're grossly overestimating the power of radiation. There are three main types of nuclear radiation; alpha, beta, and gamma. Alpha is helium cores, which are quite dangerous but so dense that even air stops it dead in its tracks after just a few centimetres. Beta radiation consists of electrons have slightly longer range, about 30 cm, but can be stopped by thick paper and isn't as harmful. Gamma radiation is probably the most well-known one because it has actual range; great range in fact. However. It has this range because it passes straight through you; for the most part, they do nothing at all.
Passing through cells without doing damage is only the good case scenario. DNA damage in varying severity can happen due to exposure to ionizing radiation. I wont go into specifics, but some of these are repaired with more efficacy than others. Some are repaired correctly without incident, some are repaired incorrectly without incident, some are repaired incorrectly to the point where the cell initiates apoptosis (cell death), and others can induce dangerous mutations in oncogenes that can cause cancer. Even small amounts of gamma radiation can result in DNA mutations and chromosomal abnormalities. "Safe" doses arent exactly immune to this danger, but DNA is self repairing so more often than not you will be ok. The danger of an improper DNA base substitution by DNA polymerase is always a possibility, however.
I wouldn't worry about any of this type of stuff with everyday materials though, as the levels are far too low to be very significant.
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Not trying to make you worry even more or anything, but China produces like half of the world's steel, 40% of the world's aluminium, 10% of the copper and nearly all of the rare earth materials. All this stuff is exported around the world and made into pretty much everything . And we have not even started on Russian and India. If you are going to be paranoid about radioactivity, why stop at your keyboard? By your logic, you are literally surround it by sources of radiation (you are, but not in the way you think though).
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Chemist here.
I wouldn't worry about it. Even though there might be some trace cobalt or something in the steel, it is probably relatively harmless. Radiation is a lot less scary and a lot more prevalent than you might realize. We have a 15 keV X-ray source in our lab (the lab where I am sitting and typing this right now), and we cannot detect the radiation from it through the aluminum foil shielding because the external radiation from the cinder block walls drowns out the signal. Seriously. Cinder blocks click more than a lightly shielded electron gun. My bucket of uranium waste puts off a decent signal, that's why I moved it away from my eating area.
This isn't to say that you shouldn't take radiation lightly, but the radiation put out by impure steel is going to pale in comparison to things that give you doses on a regular basis such as the sun, bananas, and dirt.
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Don't ask, measure it! There are at least two Geiger counter Apps for I-Phone and Android. One of them is really good, called "RadioactivityCounter" by Rolf-Dieter Klein. Price is AFAIK around 5 €. Radiating metal can be everywhere. For example, the last years poor people in Ukrainia (call them "collectors") snagged some scrap metal from Tschernobyl, and sold it to scrap merchants. So the scrap got into the circuit of production. Same in Russia.
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It isnt bullocks: people do get contaminated.
While not specifically "containing" radiation, radioactive elements do in fact contain an unstable nucleus that emits radiation. It isnt the proper nomenclature, but I wouldn't get too hung up about it.
People only get contaminated with radioactive material; NOT with radiation. It's like reading "radiation-tipped rockets", it's so grossly oversimplified I can't help but get worked up about it xD .
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Your PC is probably radiating your gonads more than your rice cooker. :p
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It isnt bullocks: people do get contaminated.
While not specifically "containing" radiation, radioactive elements do in fact contain an unstable nucleus that emits radiation. It isnt the proper nomenclature, but I wouldn't get too hung up about it.
People only get contaminated with radioactive material; NOT with radiation. It's like reading "radiation-tipped rockets", it's so grossly oversimplified I can't help but get worked up about it xD .
True, but when someone says "radioactive contamination is bullocks", I feel the need to point out that they are wrong. In this context though, yea, you cant catch radioactivity by just being exposed to the waves, and anybody worried about low level radiation should just stop. Growing up next to a superfund site might be a difference story though.
I worked with radioactive isotopes in the lab, and we were always taking measurements to make sure we didnt contaminate anything/ourselves. My one colleagues' bench would always register on the Geiger counter, but that's because she was rather careless and worked with radioactive isotopes a lot more than I did.
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when someone says "radioactive contamination is bullocks"
I didn't say that. I said: "It's like saying you can be contaminated by radiation; total bollocks." Like you said, you can't catch radioactivity from just being exposed to waves, and that's exactly what I said :p .
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I'd be more worried about getting hit by a ufo piloted by Elvis.
Yeah, don't you hate it when that happens?
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I'd be more worried about getting hit by a ufo piloted by Elvis.
Yeah, don't you hate it when that happens?
It's not the anal *probing* that's the problem, at least not with Elvis - he has a tiny cock. When I got picked up by the UFO piloted by Jim Morrison, though, I couldn't sit down for weeks.
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OK, contamination means beeing stained with radiactive substances, not with radiation itself. We've learnt it. And now?
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OK, contamination means beeing stained with radiactive substances, not with radiation itself. We've learnt it. And now?
Not enough to be a concern. Move along to the next topic.