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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:44:47

Title: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:44:47: I have a Falbatech-assembled Ergodox, but I can't seem to desolder any of the switches. It seems like no matter what I do, the metal prongs remain fixed in the through-holes. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it possible that they glued the switches into the plate??
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: Evo_Spec on Thu, 04 June 2015, 08:36:43: Quote from: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:44:47
I have a Falbatech-assembled Ergodox, but I can't seem to desolder any of the switches. It seems like no matter what I do, the metal prongs remain fixed in the through-holes. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it possible that they glued the switches into the plate??

It is possible that they glued it since the plate isn't 1.5mm to clip in so they decided it'd be better and more solid to glue it. Can you not see if there's glue in the gap between the PCB and plate?
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 13:45:10: Quote from: Evo_Spec on Thu, 04 June 2015, 08:36:43
Quote from: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:44:47
I have a Falbatech-assembled Ergodox, but I can't seem to desolder any of the switches. It seems like no matter what I do, the metal prongs remain fixed in the through-holes. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it possible that they glued the switches into the plate??

It is possible that they glued it since the plate isn't 1.5mm to clip in so they decided it'd be better and more solid to glue it. Can you not see if there's glue in the gap between the PCB and plate?

There's no visible glue but maybe they used something thin like krazy glue. But I'm not even sure it's the glue that's keeping it stuck because when you desolder a switch that's still attached to a plate, you can gently wiggle the prongs (IDK what they're called but it's basically the metal part of the switch that pokes through the through-hole in the PCB), and even when I have removed all visible solder, the little prongs cannot be wiggled. It seems like maybe there's a bit of solder between the prong and the through-hole that can't be reached by the iron.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: user 18 on Thu, 04 June 2015, 14:25:07: Are you using braid, a sucker, or a vacuum station? Can you wiggle any of the pins, or are they all displaying this behaviour?
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 04 June 2015, 14:29:04: Quote from: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:44:47
I have a Falbatech-assembled Ergodox, but I can't seem to desolder any of the switches. It seems like no matter what I do, the metal prongs remain fixed in the through-holes. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it possible that they glued the switches into the plate??
Czarek isn't an idiot. He wouldn't have glued the switches to the plate. You are most likely not desoldering it correctly, or you don't know how to remove the switches. You are pressing the two tabs at the front and back of the switch when you pull, right?
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 04 June 2015, 15:24:25: Some photos might help us diagnose the issue.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 15:48:41: Quote from: Photekq on Thu, 04 June 2015, 14:29:04
Quote from: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:44:47
I have a Falbatech-assembled Ergodox, but I can't seem to desolder any of the switches. It seems like no matter what I do, the metal prongs remain fixed in the through-holes. Does anyone have experience with this? Is it possible that they glued the switches into the plate??
Czarek isn't an idiot. He wouldn't have glued the switches to the plate. You are most likely not desoldering it correctly, or you don't know how to remove the switches. You are pressing the two tabs at the front and back of the switch when you pull, right?

Yes.

Quote from: user 18 on Thu, 04 June 2015, 14:25:07
Are you using braid, a sucker, or a vacuum station? Can you wiggle any of the pins, or are they all displaying this behaviour?

Sucker. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FHYL7I?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Thu, 04 June 2015, 15:49:20: Quote from: SpAmRaY on Thu, 04 June 2015, 15:24:25
Some photos might help us diagnose the issue.

I'll try but I only have my cell phone camera, which is garbage at that scale/zoom
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:37:10: (http://imgur.com/Rw6jdes)
(http://imgur.com/KD0Fhof)
(http://imgur.com/os4pQwy)
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:43:14: Quote from: bcredbottle on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:37:10
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/Rw6jdes.jpg)

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/KD0Fhof.jpg)

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/os4pQwy.jpg)

Use the embed codes when embedding images. I've fixed it in my quote.

Try resoldering the pins and desoldering again. If there is solder stuck somewhere, that could potentially allow heat from the iron to get to it and melt it away.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: Evo_Spec on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:47:09: I was hoping for pictures of between the plate and PCB but that's some really dirty desoldering but I imagine it should come out if the pins feel free.

Edit: yeah if it doesn't come out still do what user 18 said and resolder and desolder it again. That's worked for me quite well in the past.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:08:25: Quote from: user 18 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:43:14
Quote from: bcredbottle on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:37:10
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/Rw6jdes.jpg)

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/KD0Fhof.jpg)

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/os4pQwy.jpg)

Use the embed codes when embedding images. I've fixed it in my quote.

Try resoldering the pins and desoldering again. If there is solder stuck somewhere, that could potentially allow heat from the iron to get to it and melt it away.

I did. The solder below just won't come out
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: Evo_Spec on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:12:55: Well.... Then try force?
Grab a chopstick or something and push the stem on the switch and hopefully it'll pop out, if it doesn't then there's really not much more you can do other than more force and potentially break it or give it to someone else with more experience.

Edit: Just wanted to add that the clips shouldn't be clipped in because IIRC the ergodox plate is 3mm or something.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:14:42: If the pins don't move, it's not likely a matter of force. I've occasionally had success with solder braid when the vacuum wasn't cutting it.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: Evo_Spec on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:16:44: I've never had this much trouble with removing a switch before so other than soldering and desoldering I really don't know what to recommend and OP said that he already did it.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:35:24: It seems the soldering pump is too weak, it doesn't deliver enough suction power to pull all melted solder coming out from the switch. As a result, the melted got stuck in the middle. You should try with a different soldering pump, something bigger and stronger. After that, you can try to add a bit more solder back to the failed ones, slowly melt and suck them again.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:48:25: Quote from: phoenix1234 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:35:24
It seems the soldering pump is too weak, it doesn't deliver enough suction power to pull all melted solder coming out from the switch. As a result, the melted got stuck in the middle. You should try with a different soldering pump, something bigger and stronger. After that, you can try to add a bit more solder back to the failed ones, slowly melt and suck them again.

That makes sense. Any suggestions for another pump?
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: neverused on Fri, 05 June 2015, 23:53:43: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00068IJSG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1433566350&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=desoldering+iron&dpPl=1&dpID=416YmVxj8kL&ref=plSrch

Works great, I have one like it.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: Evo_Spec on Sat, 06 June 2015, 09:53:10: Quote from: bcredbottle on Fri, 05 June 2015, 22:48:25
That makes sense. Any suggestions for another pump?

edsyn soldapullt is a popular choice, i'm personally using the Goot GS-108 and have had really good luck with it.

Before you go out and buy a new one try cleaning your existing pump and lube up the o-ring a little with something suitable (i just used random lithium grease that was around)'

Edit: i should add that the purpose of this is to allow the plunger to move faster to create more suction power so be careful with the type/amount of lube you choose to use.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: berserkfan on Sun, 07 June 2015, 21:43:50: You really need to check out the Living Soldering thread. This is really a poor desoldering job. Falbatech isn't to blame.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Mon, 08 June 2015, 09:32:18: Quote from: berserkfan on Sun, 07 June 2015, 21:43:50
You really need to check out the Living Soldering thread. This is really a poor desoldering job. Falbatech isn't to blame.

I'll watch some videos on desoldering but that thread is just a disorganized cluster**** with thousands of posts
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: greath on Mon, 08 June 2015, 09:39:51: It looks like the pin is still soldered to the side of the pad to me. Try to wiggle the pin with a small screwdriver. If it doesn't move try to wiggle it with the soldering iron after you've melted the solder a touch. If it wiggles with the soldering iron but not the screw driver it's still soldered to the pad.

What I do is normally desolder an entire row at a time, then flip the PCB over and hang everything except my desoldered row off the table. I then lightly press the PCB down to the table (on the desoldered row) and use the pressure from the table to press the pins out of the PCB, thus lifting the switch from the PCB.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: bcredbottle on Tue, 09 June 2015, 16:13:14: Quote from: user 18 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:43:14
Quote from: bcredbottle on Fri, 05 June 2015, 21:37:10
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/Rw6jdes.jpg)

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/KD0Fhof.jpg)

Show Image
(http://imgur.com/os4pQwy.jpg)

Use the embed codes when embedding images. I've fixed it in my quote.

Try resoldering the pins and desoldering again. If there is solder stuck somewhere, that could potentially allow heat from the iron to get to it and melt it away.

I think that's the problem. There seems to be solder stuck below the surface level that's not getting melted. Plus the solder sucker is weak so it doesn't pull it up anyway.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 09 June 2015, 23:41:31: i recommend adding lead solder with flux at the core, adding lots of heat to mix it around a little and trying again. also some desoldering pumps aren't very good.
Quote from: bcredbottle on Tue, 09 June 2015, 16:13:14
I think that's the problem. There seems to be solder stuck below the surface level that's not getting melted. Plus the solder sucker is weak so it doesn't pull it up anyway.
Not enough heat. you cant suck the solder if you don't melt all of it. the PCB is very sturdy so you are unlikely to damage it.
Title: Re: Falbatech-assembled board impossible to desolder
Post by: trillobite on Wed, 10 June 2015, 15:53:12: I have had this issue with desoldering capacitors off motherboards. The issue is, some PCB's have a thick copper grounding plate, and the moment you place your soldering iron to one of the pins, all of the heat gets wicked away immediately into the copper. Some even use lead free solder to make the situation even worse.

Here's what you do! Make sure you have a 60 watt soldering iron, Lead Tin solder, and a heat gun (I use a 1500W one). Heat the motherboard with the heat gun set to low, and move the heat gun over the board in an even pattern moving rapidly. The tip of the heat gun should be approx 3in away from the board. Sadly, I did not measure the specific heat in which I heat my boards to, but I typically heat them to the point where you can only stand to touch them for one second. Typically, at least on motherboards, this takes up to 10 minutes of heating (your arm will be very tired).

After the board is heated up, and the tip of your soldering iron is tinned with a nice large bead of solder, see if you can get the solder on the board to melt. If not, you either need to swap out a larger tip on your soldering iron, or heat the board even higher with your heat gun.

The main idea with this method is to get that copper ground plate saturated with thermal energy, so your soldering iron will have less work to do.

Hope this helps!