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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Findecanor on Sat, 06 June 2015, 15:08:16

Title: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 06 June 2015, 15:08:16: I have seen a couple news items from Taiwanese manufacturer Adomax's booth at the ongoing Computex fair in Taipei.

They have developed a new keyboard switch with optical sensing, called the Flaretech Switch. They claim that their patented (?) optical sensing mechanism will not allow faster response time and longer life than metal-contact mechanical switches but also allow analog sensing or configurable activation point like recent Topre switches (also announced at Computex).
All electronics is surface-mounted on the underlying PCB with the actual switch modules containing no electronics - which is supposed to make it easier for the manufacturer to build keyboards and lead to fewer returns.

The switch stem is Cherry MX-compatible. It is also transparent, which I suppose indicates that it is an optical lens for the sensing mechanism.
They have announced four types - that they call "weights" - indicated by differently coloured top housings: Black, Red, Blue and Brown. They have only shown Black switches in Taipei, though.

The switch allows backlighting, not through an integrated LED or through the stem but through a separate light guide at a position near where a LED on Cherry MX switch would be. The light guide is surrounded by opaque plastic - thus avoiding light bleed. (Finally!)

So far, Adomax has only their own prototypes to show. They has not been any announcement of keyboards with these switches from any manufacturer.
The prototype keyboards shown have plate holes for Cherry-style stabilisers.

English news site:
http://www.custompcreview.com/news/computex-2015-adomax-flaretech-infrared-keyswitches-could-be-keyboards-next-big-thing/24510/

Chinese news site:
http://www.wtoutiao.com/p/ff4sig.html

Post on overclock.net (http://www.overclock.net/t/1559117/kip-ocn-at-computex-2015#post_24004554).

Nothing on Adomax's own web site (http://www.adomax.com/) yet...
Title: Re: NEWS:Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 07 June 2015, 06:50:01: Video is up.
Title: Re: NEWS:Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: suicidal_orange on Sun, 07 June 2015, 06:59:09: New tech backed up by the first working embedded youtube video I've seen on GH - what an impressive couple of posts!

Thanks for bringing this to my attention :)
Title: Re: NEWS:Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 07 June 2015, 07:56:31: Bloody ("A4Tech") also showed a keyboard with infrared switches at Computex. Also Cherry MX keycap compatible, more light bleed. They are apparently different, using an opaque slider for blocking an IR beam, so no analogue sensing.

Cheesy but informative and to the point product video:

At Computex, in Bloody's booth they had one of their keyboards and supposedly a Cherry MX-board 6.0 side by side with a bar between-them so that they could press keys simultaneously ...
Now... if the actuation point is higher on one keyboard or you would press on a point on the bar closer to it, you would still get faster "response time". The Cherry MX switch is Red, and the Bloody switch is somewhat lighter.
The best video of that is probably The Tek: Computex, Taipei (https://youtu.be/rc1mNuOc2I4?t=43m39s).
Title: Re: NEWS:Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sun, 07 June 2015, 09:06:53: I for one hope that this tech catches on...the sooner we can bid farewell to key chatter (and debounce latency) the better.
Title: Re: NEWS:Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Sun, 07 June 2015, 09:29:23: Topre is also doing an "analog" switch with 256 different activation points, it'll hopefully be released sometime next year.
Here's a video in Swedish about them and their RGB Topre switches.

If they make a HHKB with the "analog" switches I would be so happy! and poor
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 07 June 2015, 09:43:54: From what I have gathered, the "analog" Topre switches are the same as always, it is just the signal processing that is different. Current Topre electronics is thresholding an analog signal already to determine whether the switch is actuated or not.

The prototype keyboard they had could switch between keyboard, mouse emulation, XBOX gamepad emulation, PS3 gamepad emulation and ... MIDI clavier.
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Sun, 07 June 2015, 10:41:13: Quote from: Findecanor on Sun, 07 June 2015, 09:43:54
From what I have gathered, the "analog" Topre switches are the same as always, it is just the signal processing that is different. Current Topre electronics is thresholding an analog signal already to determine whether the switch is actuated or not.

The prototype keyboard they had could switch between keyboard, mouse emulation, XBOX gamepad emulation, PS3 gamepad emulation and ... MIDI clavier.
I noticed that.
I hope that in the future "analog" keyboards will catch on and games will be made with them in mind so that you don't have to fool the games into thinking that it's a gamepad just to get the analog input to work.
(http://i.imgur.com/MnX48w5.jpg)
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 07 June 2015, 10:53:50: ...................................

FINE...

This is GOOD...

Innovation.. this is to be revered... not more identical 60%s, TKLs, 104s.
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Snarfangel on Sun, 07 June 2015, 11:10:08: Quote from: Lord of Narwhals on Sun, 07 June 2015, 10:41:13
Quote from: Findecanor on Sun, 07 June 2015, 09:43:54
From what I have gathered, the "analog" Topre switches are the same as always, it is just the signal processing that is different. Current Topre electronics is thresholding an analog signal already to determine whether the switch is actuated or not.

The prototype keyboard they had could switch between keyboard, mouse emulation, XBOX gamepad emulation, PS3 gamepad emulation and ... MIDI clavier.
I noticed that.
I hope that in the future "analog" keyboards will catch on and games will be made with them in mind so that you don't have to fool the games into thinking that it's a gamepad just to get the analog input to work.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/MnX48w5.jpg)

I want that keyboard. It's so darned colorful!
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Findecanor on Mon, 08 June 2015, 14:23:22: The Bloody keyboard:
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Igwoot on Mon, 15 June 2015, 22:14:30: Great to see so many new switches coming to the market
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Chromako on Wed, 17 June 2015, 03:15:06: This is cool. Yes.

Just to rain on your parade: it is NOT new. In the 80's, there was the Burroughs/Kokusai Opto-Electric keyswitch, which sadly was only ever used on one production board. On the surface, it looks very, very similar to these new offerings. That being said, I was sad that the Burroughs/Kokusai design never caught on, so this could actually be a good thing.
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Igwoot on Wed, 17 June 2015, 09:58:27: Even though it's not new, I think in that time they were not able to realize as much with it as you would now. Something like the VR situation.
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Wed, 17 June 2015, 20:45:21: But this is just light and a sensor. The only difference I can think of is that the sensor is probably cheaper.
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Chromako on Thu, 18 June 2015, 00:17:17: Quote from: Igwoot on Wed, 17 June 2015, 09:58:27
Even though it's not new, I think in that time they were not able to realize as much with it as you would now. Something like the VR situation.

That is very possible.

While this might not be completely innovative, it's good. I'm all for it!
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 18 June 2015, 05:03:31: Quote from: False_Dmitry_II on Wed, 17 June 2015, 20:45:21
But this is just light and a sensor. The only difference I can think of is that the sensor is probably cheaper.

Actually, while the A4Tech/Bloody version is pretty much the same, the Flaretech implementation isn't and requires more advanced sensing / processing. It also allows more interesting possibilites for gaming (analogue allows progressive accelerator, brake, steering, etc. as an example, I'm sure the game developers can come up with a bunch of other interesting uses), scrolling (faster / slower depending on pressure), 2d and 3d design (moving / rotating objects / view with varying speeds), etc.

You could even use it for analysing / identifying a specific user's typing style and habits. Can add an extra layer of security to passwords by requiring them to be typed in the same "style", kind of like a signature.

The biggest problem as I see it is implementing a USB device protocol that allows it to be used that way. It'd have to come up as both a keyboard AND a gaming device to allow normal typing, OR it has to have a pretty complex driver.
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Thu, 18 June 2015, 10:56:54: Quote from: Oobly on Thu, 18 June 2015, 05:03:31
It'd have to come up as both a keyboard AND a gaming device to allow normal typing, OR it has to have a pretty complex driver.

It's pretty common for gaming peripherals to register themselves with the host PC as many different devices to support their various functions. For example, many gaming mice will also register as a keyboard so that buttons can be mapped to keyboard inputs. I had a mouse once that could present itself to the PC as a joystick if desired. And of course there's the NKRO trick where a keyboard will register itself as more than one keyboard.

I think that the trick, in the near term when there is no software written with analogue keyboards in mind, will be for the keyboard to have a number of different modes that the user can toggle between and/or use by holding modifiers. For example, there could be a regular keyboard mode, a gamepad emulation mode, joystick emulation mode, steering wheel + pedals emulation mode, intermittent mode (for games not designed for analogue inputs; basically, when holding a key down less than all the way, this mode would send repeated ultra-fast keypresses over and over; the further down the key is held, the less the interval between keypresses), and even mouse emulation, which I don't expect people to use for gaming but could be nice as an alternative to the TrackPoint for a pointing system that does not require the hand to be moved out of typing position.

I don't know enough about hardware design to say for sure what an analogue keyboard should do, but going by what I have seen from devices I've owned, the custom seems to be for the device to simply register itself as tons of different stuff, even if it's not using those features at the moment. So you'd plug in you Flaretech keyboard and it'd say to the PC, "Hi! I'm three keyboards, a mouse, a controller, a joystick, a steering wheel, and a set of foot pedals!"
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Kamen Rider Blade on Sat, 26 March 2016, 00:30:38: Now to match IR switches with simple tiny magnets and you have a Keyboard that will outlive you!!!

=D
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:00:56: Quote
Response with light speed. Definitely invincible.

Stock footage?! Switches from the future?! Invincible product?!

I have one question though. How do I clean the sensors when they become dusty? Dunk the keyboard in water?
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: FoxWolf1 on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:05:57: Quote from: csmertx on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:00:56
Quote
Response with light speed. Definitely invincible.

Stock footage?! Switches from the future?! Invincible product?!

I have one question though. How do I clean the sensors when they become dusty? Dunk the keyboard in water?

In theory, an infrared keyboard can be made completely waterproof-- the light can shine through transparent things, after all, so there's nothing stopping you from sealing the sensors in.

If they do that, then you really could wash it in water (provided the PCB underneath was also sealed or coated somehow)...
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:36:37: Quote from: FoxWolf1 on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:05:57
Quote from: csmertx on Sat, 26 March 2016, 01:00:56
Quote
Response with light speed. Definitely invincible.

Stock footage?! Switches from the future?! Invincible product?!

I have one question though. How do I clean the sensors when they become dusty? Dunk the keyboard in water?

In theory, an infrared keyboard can be made completely waterproof-- the light can shine through transparent things, after all, so there's nothing stopping you from sealing the sensors in.

If they do that, then you really could wash it in water (provided the PCB underneath was also sealed or coated somehow)...
I see what you're saying. So worst case scenario. We would have to pull out all the switches with the special tool, and give them a bath.
Title: Re: [NEWS] Adomax Flaretech Infrared Key Switches
Post by: Findecanor on Sat, 26 March 2016, 02:20:48: There seems to be clear polyurethane spray for electronics. But I am afraid that the coating would be refractive enough to interfere with the optics.