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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: t888 on Sun, 05 July 2015, 16:59:31

Title: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: t888 on Sun, 05 July 2015, 16:59:31: Last year I picked up a HHKB Professional 2. It sat in the box most of that time. I recently started using it a little when I am doing small computing projects. I'm having a tough time moving from a Model M keyboard (Unicomp 104 key Linux). The loss of dedicated keys (arrows, etc) makes me stumble a bit looking for the Fn key and the associated key.
(http://i.imgur.com/Fonq3si.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/YZNRkUt.jpg)
While I love the feel of the keyboard, I'm wondering if there is a full size version of the HHKB Pro 2 with the same layout and has the arrow keys, and Function Key row.

I have looked at the Realforce 87u however the Escape key is in the wrong place. I know you can remap the Ctrl and Caps Lock via dip switches. Can you do the same with the Esc key and the ~/` key?
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: ccarlitos2 on Sun, 05 July 2015, 17:11:08: It doesn't have the function row but you could look at getting a hhkb jis layout. Picture:http://image.rakuten.co.jp/sevenone-shop/cabinet/inputdevice/id195-1214x.jpg?_ex=60x60
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: opensecret on Sun, 05 July 2015, 21:05:52: Quote from: t888 on Sun, 05 July 2015, 16:59:31
While I love the feel of the keyboard, I'm wondering if there is a full size version of the HHKB Pro 2 with the same layout and has the arrow keys, and Function Key row.

I have looked at the Realforce 87u however the Escape key is in the wrong place. I know you can remap the Ctrl and Caps Lock via dip switches. Can you do the same with the Esc key and the ~/` key?

I've looked at the HHKB, and I like that they put the Ctrl key where it should be, but I've never felt that I could make all the adjustments it asks for. I'm typing on a RF87u right now, and I think it's a great board (but the Esc key location doesn't trouble me). You can't switch Esc and ~ with dipswitches, though you could do that in software with a keyboard remapper. Remapping is a good solution if you use the same board consistently with a particular machine. It's less convenient if you switch boards frequently.
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: steve.v on Sun, 05 July 2015, 22:52:06: Hasu controller.
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: Polymer on Sun, 05 July 2015, 23:28:31: It takes time to get used to the HHKB FN layer...I'm sure you must've known that when you decided to buy it...it is probably the most documented "problem" with the keyboard....

So your options are pretty clear...If you want to move to Topre you either:

Get used to the FN layer on the HHKB...For everyone that buys it, if you don't, you will end up selling it..simple.
or
Get a RF and get used to the ESC key placement..which shouldn't be a big deal...it is pretty much the standard ESC key placement for modern keyboards..
or
use a program to move the ESC for you
OR
Maybe the easiest.....Leopold 660c. Dedicated arrow keys..esc where you want it....

If none of these are options for you...don't change keyboards..and buy a lot more of them because you'll be lost if it breaks...
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: t888 on Mon, 06 July 2015, 01:06:13: Quote from: Polymer on Sun, 05 July 2015, 23:28:31
It takes time to get used to the HHKB FN layer...I'm sure you must've known that when you decided to buy it...it is probably the most documented "problem" with the keyboard....

So your options are pretty clear...If you want to move to Topre you either:

Get used to the FN layer on the HHKB...For everyone that buys it, if you don't, you will end up selling it..simple.
or
Get a RF and get used to the ESC key placement..which shouldn't be a big deal...it is pretty much the standard ESC key placement for modern keyboards..
or
use a program to move the ESC for you
OR
Maybe the easiest.....Leopold 660c. Dedicated arrow keys..esc where you want it....

If none of these are options for you...don't change keyboards..and buy a lot more of them because you'll be lost if it breaks...

I'm going to give it a go this week use the HHKB for my day to day stuff... I will admit I've been dragging my feet at switching over. I'll see how it goes.

Like you point out .. at least I have some options :-) Thx!!
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: t888 on Mon, 06 July 2015, 01:08:36: Quote from: opensecret on Sun, 05 July 2015, 21:05:52
Quote from: t888 on Sun, 05 July 2015, 16:59:31
While I love the feel of the keyboard, I'm wondering if there is a full size version of the HHKB Pro 2 with the same layout and has the arrow keys, and Function Key row.

I have looked at the Realforce 87u however the Escape key is in the wrong place. I know you can remap the Ctrl and Caps Lock via dip switches. Can you do the same with the Esc key and the ~/` key?

I've looked at the HHKB, and I like that they put the Ctrl key where it should be, but I've never felt that I could make all the adjustments it asks for. I'm typing on a RF87u right now, and I think it's a great board (but the Esc key location doesn't trouble me). You can't switch Esc and ~ with dipswitches, though you could do that in software with a keyboard remapper. Remapping is a good solution if you use the same board consistently with a particular machine. It's less convenient if you switch boards frequently.

Thanks for letting me know about the dip switch features on the Realforce keyboard.
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: rsadek on Mon, 06 July 2015, 02:04:29: I have the same problem but I found a solution: Hasu's controller. It costs little, and is very easy to install. Then it becomes easy to program layer support however you like. 40 bucks to freedoms and the greatest board ever. I'm still refining mine so function keys are always easy to get to.
This also eliminates the need for dedicated arrows bc you can use any modifier, even spacebars to invoke an inverted T arrow set whoever you like.
The HHKB Japan offers dedicated arrow keys and Hasu has a controller for it as well. Search or alt tmk controller
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 06 July 2015, 02:43:11: On the surface the JP HHKB looks like a good option but really it isn't..

You have to adjust to the shifted lower row...the right shift key in an odd position...No backspace where \ is which is one of the best things about a HHKB. Plus basic keys like + are in a different place....it would take far more adjustment than any of the more normal options IMO..
Title: Re: Challenges w/ HHKB Pro2, looking for keybd w/ more keys!
Post by: t888 on Mon, 06 July 2015, 10:47:24: Quote from: rsadek on Mon, 06 July 2015, 02:04:29
I have the same problem but I found a solution: Hasu's controller. It costs little, and is very easy to install. Then it becomes easy to program layer support however you like. 40 bucks to freedoms and the greatest board ever. I'm still refining mine so function keys are always easy to get to.
This also eliminates the need for dedicated arrows bc you can use any modifier, even spacebars to invoke an inverted T arrow set whoever you like.
The HHKB Japan offers dedicated arrow keys and Hasu has a controller for it as well. Search or alt tmk controller

I found some info on the Hasu's controller here: https://roastpotatoes.github.io/2015/04/08/hasus-alternative-controller/ (https://roastpotatoes.github.io/2015/04/08/hasus-alternative-controller/)

Reading the article it looks pretty straight forward to install and setup. I'm pretty excited about the customization it provides.. it's really cool! The community here at Geekhack is fantastic. Such pioneering spirit and innovation.