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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: dante on Mon, 06 July 2015, 21:38:49

Title: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Mon, 06 July 2015, 21:38:49
How the hell do you guys do it?  I'm STARVING dammit!!  :eek:

Sweet Potatoes / White Rice / Fruit = Developing massive tooth sensitivity.
White Potatoes = Severe pain in my hands
Brown Rice = Started pooping ... blood ... :confused:  Cut back on brown rice and now the bleeding is gone.

Even my staple Tofu is no longer satisfying.

I just put some butter on my broccoli and had a little grilled chicken and my body feels like it's coming back from the dead.

Basically started this mostly trying to lose weight but also after seeing undercover unnecessary animal cruelty at factory farms I thought I'd cut it out of my diet; but my body isn't having it.  :-[
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Gaspar on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:05:31
Live on black chocolate!

seriously, I eat mostly only vegetables (carrots, broccoli, peppers, cucumbers, tomato and beans), fruits, nuts. But I also eat bread. And I eat chicken, turkey or fish about one day out of 2-3.

And of course, black chocolate, i eat some everyday.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:06:20
just do organic and free range and ****.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Booper on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:42:14
Not vegan, but I'm a vegetarian! I actually eat a larger variety of foods these days than I ever did as a meat eater.

If I'm lazy I'll make tacos with some frozen veggie crumbles but other than that, I don't eat any kind of imitation meat or anything.

You can check out my instagram (https://instagram.com/omniclectic) for a few pictures. I'd be more than happy to share recipes with you if you want!

Also, Blue Apron has a vegetarian service which is pretty cool. They send you portioned food and recipes. Normally I'd just buy local produce but where I live currently, it's really hard to find good, fresh food so I gave Blue Apron a shot and was pretty impressed. Some may think it's pricey, but I definitely think it's worth it. Not only do I get fresh and fairly exotic food that I could never find locally, but you don't have to think of what to make for dinner and then go to the store and try to find those exact ingredients.


Things to try instead of rice :
quinoa, bulgur, farro, couscous...

complete proteins :
Quinoa, hummus + pita, soy, seiten, chia, hempseed, buckwheat....



Hm. Idk! It was a little difficult when I first took the plunge, but now it's easy and I cook all the time and can't ever imagine wanting to eating meat again. When I first started out, I bought a panini maker and just made sandwiches every night with various veggies and sauces. I've always enjoyed a wide variety of food and veg though! It could be more difficult if you are a picky eater.


Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:44:31
holy **** I totally forgot that couscous was even a thing. Now I now what I'm eating for the rest of the week :p
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Booper on Mon, 06 July 2015, 22:49:55
holy **** I totally forgot that couscous was even a thing. Now I now what I'm eating for the rest of the week :p

It's so easy to make! haha. I eat it fairly often because it just takes boiling water + 5 minutes of time.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 06 July 2015, 23:08:30
Do you have some kind of medical monitoring or stuff like that? Going fully vegan suddenly is dangerous, your body can react badly.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tbc on Mon, 06 July 2015, 23:16:19
wtf is a white potato?
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 06 July 2015, 23:37:41
Well,

eating mostly veggies won't give you that  "Satiation feeling" 

the only way to induce that -feeling-  is alot of carbs such as rice/pasta  OR  Oil/fats.


Potato starches get shunted directly to the liver, so it also won't produce the same "Satiation" as rice or Oils.


OVERALL,  if you're on a caloric deficit, you're gonna feel a bit "down"..
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 07 July 2015, 01:12:34
Frutarians eat only Starburst?
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: rsadek on Tue, 07 July 2015, 02:02:53
Yes! Good for you! I have been Vegan about 3 years now for similar reasons (cruelty avoidance). You can do it! I thought I could never go vegan as the worlds biggest cheese fan; seriously I don't miss any of it. Once the first part passes, many people start to feel so much better, they wonder why it seemed hard initially.


To answer your question Dr. Neal Barnard has some wisdom in the subject, I particular why you might feel unwell at first, and he has some good tips to avoid this phenomenon. The short answer: have more food and water :D it turns out that many people feel a little gross when they leave out animal proteins and fats; but it isn't bc those materials are needed by the body (usually; there are very rare cases. Like extremely rare). Rather it's due to other effects which Barnard explains better than I can.


If you can learn to make Indian style lentils (Dahl) it really helped me the first few weeks. Very filling, tasty and gives satiety.


Let me know if you can't find em, I will post.


Gene Bauer is also great. Search for his talk at Google; his explanations of why vegan ism is worthwhile and important are so clearly and eloquently expressed, I found them tremendously helpful even though I was already committed to Veganism 100%.


Let me know how you are doing, I'm eager to help :)

-R


Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: sth on Tue, 07 July 2015, 02:04:44
don't forget your b12 supplements!
Title: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: paicrai on Tue, 07 July 2015, 04:49:15
the problem with thinking that some of the **** food companies do to animals might be uber **** tier is that humans are omnivores and we still need meat so unless youre getting ready to **** spriggans and slay boars, theres not a lot u can do
(edit: guess i should say nutrients from meat are what you need, and supplements or whatever just feel wrong to me cuz its kind of cheating to make ur diet not kill u)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 07 July 2015, 05:13:31
I still don't understand the idea that not eating meat is in anyway helping or preventing cruelty to animals... I eat as much free-range and properly farmed animals as I can in order to make that type of farming more economically viable, seems like the only sensible way to actually help animals...


But https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism seems mental
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: absyrd on Tue, 07 July 2015, 05:14:22

You can check out my instagram (https://instagram.com/omniclectic) for a few pictures. I'd be more than happy to share recipes with you if you want!


Ooooooohhhh... followed. :D

Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 07 July 2015, 05:15:34
My wife and I are both Vegan! I've had my levels checked and all of my nutrients and blood levels are good. You don't need meat to survive, you need nutrients, vitamins, protein, etc.
Just had a smoothie for breakfast. Baby Spinach, Peanut Butter, banana, flax seed. Delicious!
Eat rice, noodles, veggies, etc peanut butter, fruit.
I take Vegan multi vitamin, folic acid, and omega.

Good luck man. I didn't think it was possible at first. As soon as you get over meat and dairy then it's really easy replacing beauty products etc w vegan cruelty free products. Do it for the animals and the planet but also your health. :)

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: iri on Tue, 07 July 2015, 05:36:11
Potatoes, pasta, bread, rice, couscous, buckwheat, semolina, millet gruel for carbs.

Different beans, soya, hummus for proteins.

Also, Nutella.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: ConscienceDrop on Tue, 07 July 2015, 06:45:49
How long have you been doing it? Takes a couple weeks for your body to deal with not working harder to digest. Animal products are calorie dense and are half digested by cooking. You will feel like **** until your body learns to do better digesting. Aka gut bacteria for plants is usually poverty tier in most meat meaters.

You can make learning vegan easier on yourself by eating more simple foods to digest in beginning. Oats you soak in water first, fruit. Blend veggies into a smoothy.

But tbh of brown rice is making you **** blood you have need for a doctor. You might literally be unable to digest some things or have some kind of intolerance.

Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Tue, 07 July 2015, 09:57:50
just do organic and free range and ****.

The problem with organic/free range is that there are so many loop holes that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.


Things to try instead of rice :
quinoa, bulgur, farro, couscous...

complete proteins :
Quinoa, hummus + pita, soy, seiten, chia, hempseed, buckwheat....

I also tried an Ethiopian grain called Teff specifically because my family has bad dental issues and Teff has the highest calcium content of all grains.  When eating it I noticed that it makes me sluggish and well ... when it comes time to poop it doesn't even look like it was digested (see corn.)

After the effects of rice I'm not even sure if my body is geared up for grains.  Plus they all make my teeth extra sensitive.


wtf is a white potato?

I meant white/russet, yellow potatoes...  The russets give my hands a terrible cramping pain.  I later learned this is due to it being a night shade and having consequently a common side effect of regular consumption.  I'm not sure if frying it removes this component.


To answer your question Dr. Neal Barnard has some wisdom in the subject, I particular why you might feel unwell at first, and he has some good tips to avoid this phenomenon. The short answer: have more food and water :D it turns out that many people feel a little gross when they leave out animal proteins and fats; but it isn't bc those materials are needed by the body (usually; there are very rare cases. Like extremely rare). Rather it's due to other effects which Barnard explains better than I can.

Gene Bauer is also great. Search for his talk at Google; his explanations of why vegan ism is worthwhile and important are so clearly and eloquently expressed, I found them tremendously helpful even though I was already committed to Veganism 100%.
[/font]

I'll look up one of Dr. Barnards books.  For a while I had been following Dr. John McDougall "Starch Solution."  I gave it a go but all that starch wasn't sitting well with me / tooth sensitivity / light headed feeling even though I'm not even close to prediabetic.


My wife and I are both Vegan! I've had my levels checked and all of my nutrients and blood levels are good. You don't need meat to survive, you need nutrients, vitamins, protein, etc.
Just had a smoothie for breakfast. Baby Spinach, Peanut Butter, banana, flax seed. Delicious!
Eat rice, noodles, veggies, etc peanut butter, fruit.
I take Vegan multi vitamin, folic acid, and omega.

What multivitamin have you been taking?

This is the one I've tried: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B4IKQPG?tag=19-82341-20

It's ok.  I wish they had multiple capsules per day as I think it might absorb better.


I eat as much free-range and properly farmed animals as I can in order to make that type of farming more economically viable, seems like the only sensible way to actually help animals...

"Free range" is a load of crap. Nobody knows about an animals end than the person taking the life.  There have been a lot of undercover videos of "halal" / "kosher" meat which is just as barbaric.  Yeah - I said it - but well .... that same meat makes me feel good.   :-\


How long have you been doing it? Takes a couple weeks for your body to deal with not working harder to digest. Animal products are calorie dense and are half digested by cooking. You will feel like **** until your body learns to do better digesting. Aka gut bacteria for plants is usually poverty tier in most meat meaters.

You can make learning vegan easier on yourself by eating more simple foods to digest in beginning. Oats you soak in water first, fruit. Blend veggies into a smoothy.

But tbh of brown rice is making you **** blood you have need for a doctor. You might literally be unable to digest some things or have some kind of intolerance.

I've been attempting to do it off and on for the last year or so.  Whenever I stop is when I encounter a side effect such as pain in my hands (potatoes), bleeding gums (usually caused by continual feeding of oats), tooth sensitivity (potatoes/rice), blood in stool (brown rice seems to be the culprit.)

I also tried doing Soylent - but that left me very unfulfilled; I also developed bleeding gums from this as well.


I might just do what this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMubfsGHvTk) guy does and make some grilled "cheese" sandwiches fried in earth balance.  :))
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 07 July 2015, 10:15:19
Ok well obviously halal meat is barbaric, you can just see that in the definition. But as long as you just head to your local farmers market where you can actually talk to the people themselves, I guarantee you'll be getting something ethically raised and at least relatively so slaughtered.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 07 July 2015, 10:17:59
I mean, if you live a happy free life doing as you please for how ever many years and are then quickly killed, that's still pretty good as far as it goes... But yeah, being an atheist halal wasn't really what I meant
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: jerue on Tue, 07 July 2015, 10:29:02
holy **** I totally forgot that couscous was even a thing. Now I now what I'm eating for the rest of the week :p

I am the polar opposite of a vegetarian, but Near East Parmesan couscous is bae.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: R1N3 on Tue, 07 July 2015, 11:23:07
I still don't understand the idea that not eating meat is in anyway helping or preventing cruelty to animals... I eat as much free-range and properly farmed animals as I can in order to make that type of farming more economically viable, seems like the only sensible way to actually help animals...


But https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism seems mental

It's a mindset.. "I don't agree with what you're doing, and I'm actively choosing to not participate."
Mature, down to earth people know that not eating meat isn't going to change anything. I bet dustin could've gone on forever about animal rights but instead he gave an example of a dank smoothie. Clever enough people know what they're not getting from what they eat and get it elsewhere.

Meanwhile, I'll probably spend the rest of my life in ketosis

The fruit thing though... maaaaan Jamaica is the place to be. ****ing nesberry, soursop, ackee omg and all you have to do is climb up a tree and get em!
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Tue, 07 July 2015, 11:27:37
Meanwhile, I'll probably spend the rest of my life in ketosis

This is what I tried to do at one point ... a vegan form of a low carb diet using Tofu and Broccoli - instead of Chicken and Broccoli which is the typical cutting bodybuilder diet.

I made an appointment to get some blood work done as it's been about a year.  Should be enlightening.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: R1N3 on Tue, 07 July 2015, 11:38:49
Meanwhile, I'll probably spend the rest of my life in ketosis

This is what I tried to do at one point ... a vegan form of a low carb diet using Tofu and Broccoli - instead of Chicken and Broccoli which is the typical cutting bodybuilder diet.

I made an appointment to get some blood work done as it's been about a year.  Should be enlightening.

You're gonna need BULK coconut and flax oil if you're gonna try and stay there. I don't know so much about hemp and pea protein powders and their carb ratios but I don't think the bioavailability is particularly high esp compared to something like whey. Maybe they can hydrolyze hemp now huehue
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 07 July 2015, 13:00:57
I thought about animal cruelty for a long time..


In the circle of life,   we've throughout history arbitrarily chosen what and where the line of _cruelty_ exists.


There fore , cruelty is not a certain fact,  it's merely a placeholder representing the possibilities forgone.



Given, that there is no biological pressure to choose 1 way or the other,   it is no more or less than the cast of a die.

Cruelty is then but the whim of circumstances.


It is neither good nor bad.. because it does not seem to influence our odds of survival given current technologies.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 07 July 2015, 14:05:25
Deva Multi Vitamin with iron.
http://www.vitacost.com/deva-vegan-multivitamin-mineral-supplement-90-coated-tablets-1 (http://www.vitacost.com/deva-vegan-multivitamin-mineral-supplement-90-coated-tablets-1)

Omega
http://www.vitacost.com/deva-vegan-omega-3-dha-90-vegan-softgels-1 (http://www.vitacost.com/deva-vegan-omega-3-dha-90-vegan-softgels-1)

Folic Acid
http://www.vitacost.com/jarrow-formulas-methyl-folate-400-mcg-60-capsules (http://www.vitacost.com/jarrow-formulas-methyl-folate-400-mcg-60-capsules)

If you can afford the yearly payment. This site rocks!
https://thrivemarket.com/ (https://thrivemarket.com/)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Lurch on Tue, 07 July 2015, 14:16:37
If you can afford the yearly payment. This site rocks!
https://thrivemarket.com/ (https://thrivemarket.com/)

Do you use this service? It has piqued my interest...
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 07 July 2015, 14:43:00
If you can afford the yearly payment. This site rocks!
https://thrivemarket.com/ (https://thrivemarket.com/)

Do you use this service? It has piqued my interest...

We're on the free trial right now. Its pretty nice! We probably arent continuing it right now. Though, we want to join with a paid membership soon.

My doctor just told me I have Celiac Disease, Gluten Allergy. I'm glad I'm vegan, so I am already used to eating at home. Going to have to make even more adjustments now.   
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: iri on Tue, 07 July 2015, 15:47:15
My doctor just told me I have Celiac, Gluten Sensitivity. Oh boy, glad Im vegan.
Because gluten is an animal product?
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 07 July 2015, 15:48:49
If you can afford the yearly payment. This site rocks!
https://thrivemarket.com/ (https://thrivemarket.com/)

Do you use this service? It has piqued my interest...

We're on the free trial right now. Its pretty nice! We probably arent continuing it right now. Though, we want to join with a paid membership soon.

Also, My doctor just told me I have Celiac, Gluten Sensitivity. Oh boy, glad Im vegan. Already used to eating at home. Lol Going to have to make even more adjustments now.   :-\

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: digi on Tue, 07 July 2015, 15:56:33
Can you still eat Cup O Noodles if you're vegan??
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 07 July 2015, 16:13:10
My doctor just told me I have Celiac, Gluten Sensitivity. Oh boy, glad Im vegan.
Because gluten is an animal product?

Here is a link for you:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+gluten%3F (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+gluten%3F)


Im glad Im vegan because Im already used to cooking at home every night and not being able to eat everything out there. So this shouldnt be that hard.

If you can afford the yearly payment. This site rocks!
https://thrivemarket.com/ (https://thrivemarket.com/)

Do you use this service? It has piqued my interest...

We're on the free trial right now. Its pretty nice! We probably arent continuing it right now. Though, we want to join with a paid membership soon.

Also, My doctor just told me I have Celiac, Gluten Sensitivity. Oh boy, glad Im vegan. Already used to eating at home. Lol Going to have to make even more adjustments now.   :-\

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha

I'm quite depressed over this new disease and you're laughing? Thanks man..
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 07 July 2015, 19:20:56
My doctor just told me I have Celiac, Gluten Sensitivity.

Celiac disease is a lot more than "sensitivity" to gluten. It makes gluten severely damaging to your small intestine.

My son was diagnosed about 3 years ago and it is life-changing. His problem is that he is a teenager and already an extremely picky eater.

If you are already accustomed to "eating different" then you are already a step ahead. You can work with it.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Tue, 07 July 2015, 19:28:18
My doctor just told me I have Celiac, Gluten Sensitivity.

Celiac disease is a lot more than "sensitivity" to gluten. It makes gluten severely damaging to your small intestine.

My son was diagnosed about 3 years ago and it is life-changing. His problem is that he is a teenager and already an extremely picky eater.

If you are already accustomed to "eating different" then you are already a step ahead. You can work with it.

Thank you for the reply. Yes, that is what I found out as well. I cannot have any Gluten. It damages the intestine severely.
I already went and got some Gluten-Free Vegan items tonight. Bread, Tortillas, Cereal, Liquid Aminos, Granola.
The Cereal will last awhile, I drink smoothies for breakfast.
How has your son been doing with it? I think I will be fine since I dont go out much to eat anyways.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 07 July 2015, 19:43:22

How has your son been doing with it?


It is not easy. What I keep telling him is that there are 3 important foods that don't have gluten: fruit, vegetables, and meat.

Look into "paleo diets" and you quickly realize that there are whole classes of what we consider "basic" foods that were never consumed by humans before the advent of cooking (and, generally, agriculture, about 10K years ago).

For example, almost all grains and beans are indigestable by humans until they are broken down externally.

What is most painful to him is that he is a top student in school, and the most common rewards for class achievements are "parties" where they give out cookies, doughnuts, or pizza, all strict no-no's for him.

We have found excellent ways to make pizzas at home, and that has been a big help.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 07 July 2015, 21:28:32


I'm quite depressed over this new disease and you're laughing? Thanks man..

Dustin...

I'm laughing over the fact that gluten has nothing to do with vegan..


I too have a mild gluten sensitivity,  Probably all the ramen.. (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_081_.gif)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 07 July 2015, 21:31:45
Aside from some medical reason, I fail to see any logical reason for going vegetarian.  I don't mean to start a war, or piss anyone off with this statement, my brain just can't comprehend it.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Tue, 07 July 2015, 21:44:31
Aside from some medical reason, I fail to see any logical reason for going vegetarian.  I don't mean to start a war, or piss anyone off with this statement, my brain just can't comprehend it.

Check this out: Earthlings Documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwd0jcbiKV0)

Note: The irony isn't lost on me. I'm someone who has demonstrated that Veganism hasn't made me feel all that hot.  Still I'm going to keep working at it until I find the right formula.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 07 July 2015, 21:52:42
Aside from some medical reason, I fail to see any logical reason for going vegetarian.  I don't mean to start a war, or piss anyone off with this statement, my brain just can't comprehend it.

Check this out: Earthlings Documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwd0jcbiKV0)

Note: The irony isn't lost on me. I'm someone who has demonstrated that Veganism hasn't made me feel all that hot.  Still I'm going to keep working at it until I find the right formula.

I still fail to see how this is a logical reason for going vegetarian.  I am still going to eat meat, wear natural leather gloves and work boot every day.  Granted I don't agree with beating of animals, but some "poor" treatment is a necessary evil for the efficiency required to keep these products at a reasonable price for the people that need them.

Edit:  Also, we test on animals because the testing that needs to be done before human trials can be done in a minute fraction of the time that would be needed for going straight to human trials because a lot of the animals have been bred to be susceptible to certain cancers and such.  Plus, it is one hell of a stretch to compare raising cattle to the Holocaust.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: rsadek on Tue, 07 July 2015, 21:59:33
Dante, from your described reactions, it sounds like many different foods are causing you difficulty. Perhaps a doctor's guidance would help. Dr. McDougal takes patients. He's in northern california. Dr. Klaper is also in cali. And Barnard is near D.C. Dr. Esselstyn is in Ohio. If you're near one of them, perhaps you could speak to them. If not, they might be able to recommend someone near you. It seems worth a call.  I'm sorry to hear of  your food troubles.

On cruelty:

There were a few responses to the idea of cruelty along the lines: that's life; it's not so bad; and as long as its humane its ok. For the sake of discussion, let's say that's true.

The word cruelty here does not refer to humanely or even quickly dispatching a creature in order to live. Cruelty refers to causing the intense or extended suffering of another when it could be mitigated or avoided.

Often individuals feel they could raise an animal in comfortable, clean conditions and dispatch it humanely. If so, there is a way to scale it to market levels. The thought is that for some additional cost, humane practice is achievable.

Author Jonathan S. Foer asked the same question, researched it in detail, and wrote about it in his book Eating Animals. Although the name sounds like it has predisposed view, don't be mislead: the book is quite open front to back. In fact, the author doesn't choose veganism at the end of his journey. I did.

It's an interesting read which explores this "premium" part of the animal industries. Organic, free-range, humane...etc. I was surprised and saddened by what I read, and chose to  opt out of animal products.

Ok well obviously halal meat is barbaric, you can just see that in the definition. But as long as you just head to your local farmers market where you can actually talk to the people themselves, I guarantee you'll be getting something ethically raised and at least relatively so slaughtered.

Yikes. This is bordering on Islamophobia. I prefer inclusive and friendly. I'm curious why you feel Halal meat is inhumane? Is it that the mental image of this slaughter method is gruesome? I wonder what method seems humane to you?

Some investigation into humane slaughter might interest you. I searched  extensively. It turns out people are studying this on a neurological level.

Unfortunately, I did not find humane practices in use.  Markets often force efficiency and scale at the expense of other ideals like quality, fairness, etc. Sadly cruelty is faster/cheaper. Read about it long enough and you'll notice increasing cruely correlates with increasing efficiency.

Consider the case of male chicks: they don't lay eggs. There is no profit to be made from them. Read about what egg farmers do with male chicks when they hatch, see what you think.  Study the issues of cruely, slaughter, farming. See if what you find meets your expectations. When I looked into it; there were no methods I could accept. Your mileage may vary.

There was also one idea expressed that your body needs certain things available only in animal products. This is untrue; what materials in particular do you have in mind?

Per my understanding, the only material humans need that we can't get in sufficient quantity from (whole, unprocessed) plants is vitamin B12. Vegans supplement B12 gathered from plant sources in a concentrated quantities. FWIW, the animal foods rich in B12 are not always popular (like mackerel, or liver). The B12 issue is not limited to veganism.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: rsadek on Tue, 07 July 2015, 22:06:59
Aside from some medical reason, I fail to see any logical reason for going vegetarian.  I don't mean to start a war, or piss anyone off with this statement, my brain just can't comprehend it.

Check this out: Earthlings Documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwd0jcbiKV0)

Note: The irony isn't lost on me. I'm someone who has demonstrated that Veganism hasn't made me feel all that hot.  Still I'm going to keep working at it until I find the right formula.

I still fail to see how this is a logical reason for going vegetarian.  I am still going to eat meat, wear natural leather gloves and work boot every day.  Granted I don't agree with beating of animals, but some "poor" treatment is a necessary evil for the efficiency required to keep these products at a reasonable price for the people that need them.

Edit:  Also, we test on animals because the testing that needs to be done before human trials can be done in a minute fraction of the time that would be needed for going straight to human trials because a lot of the animals have been bred to be susceptible to certain cancers and such.  Plus, it is one hell of a stretch to compare raising cattle to the Holocaust.

Melvang, your invoking login here in spurious way. We don't eat meat or wear leather because it's logical. We do it because we like it. Dante's counterpoint with the documentary film is asking whether you like the part you don't see? In sum total, is this likeable?

Logic is a  limited tool. Ethicists have struggled for centuries to use logic to define right and wrong without success. Some things aren't meant for logic: emotion, kindness, compassion and hope rank high among them. 
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 07 July 2015, 22:20:37
Aside from some medical reason, I fail to see any logical reason for going vegetarian.  I don't mean to start a war, or piss anyone off with this statement, my brain just can't comprehend it.

Check this out: Earthlings Documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwd0jcbiKV0)

Note: The irony isn't lost on me. I'm someone who has demonstrated that Veganism hasn't made me feel all that hot.  Still I'm going to keep working at it until I find the right formula.

I still fail to see how this is a logical reason for going vegetarian.  I am still going to eat meat, wear natural leather gloves and work boot every day.  Granted I don't agree with beating of animals, but some "poor" treatment is a necessary evil for the efficiency required to keep these products at a reasonable price for the people that need them.

Edit:  Also, we test on animals because the testing that needs to be done before human trials can be done in a minute fraction of the time that would be needed for going straight to human trials because a lot of the animals have been bred to be susceptible to certain cancers and such.  Plus, it is one hell of a stretch to compare raising cattle to the Holocaust.

Melvang, your invoking login here in spurious way. We don't eat meat or wear leather because it's logical. We do it because we like it. Dante's counterpoint with the documentary film is asking whether you like the part you don't see? In sum total, is this likeable?

Logic is a  limited tool. Ethicists have struggled for centuries to use logic to define right and wrong without success. Some things aren't meant for logic: emotion, kindness, compassion and hope rank high among them.

Actually eating meat is logical, humans are omnivore by design and genetics.  Wearing leather is required and logical in my job.  Try working any of the industrial construction trades without wearing leather gloves or leather work boots.  I bet you wouldn't last 2 hours on any job site before you were escorted off site.

While I don't "see" what goes on behind the scenes on a day to day basis, I understand fully what does happen.  I do fish and eat them, though I don't hunt, it is mostly due to the lack of time, and I never learned to shoot left handed even though I am predominately right handed, but I am left eye dominant.  So I don't want to miss and just wound an animal and not be able to track it.  Also, I do oppose hunting animals just for the killing of them, unless there are extenuating circumstances.  Such as overpopulation, and invasive species such as these Asian carp creeping up the US waterways, and the wild hogs in the south.  Though ribs from a hog shot in Tennessee I tried were excellent.

But to answer your question, Whether i like the part I don't see?, I wouldn't say I like it, but I accept it.  Granted I didn't exactly grow up on what most people consider a farm, but my grandma who lived next door, raised chickens for eggs, and my grandfather raised chickens for sale.  While he had chickens, he would have no less than 60k birds at any time.  So, I probably have a bit more experience than most of the younger crowd today.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Booper on Tue, 07 July 2015, 23:56:24
Aside from some medical reason, I fail to see any logical reason for going vegetarian.  I don't mean to start a war, or piss anyone off with this statement, my brain just can't comprehend it.

Check this out: Earthlings Documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwd0jcbiKV0)

Note: The irony isn't lost on me. I'm someone who has demonstrated that Veganism hasn't made me feel all that hot.  Still I'm going to keep working at it until I find the right formula.

I still fail to see how this is a logical reason for going vegetarian.  I am still going to eat meat, wear natural leather gloves and work boot every day.  Granted I don't agree with beating of animals, but some "poor" treatment is a necessary evil for the efficiency required to keep these products at a reasonable price for the people that need them.

Edit:  Also, we test on animals because the testing that needs to be done before human trials can be done in a minute fraction of the time that would be needed for going straight to human trials because a lot of the animals have been bred to be susceptible to certain cancers and such.  Plus, it is one hell of a stretch to compare raising cattle to the Holocaust.

Melvang, your invoking login here in spurious way. We don't eat meat or wear leather because it's logical. We do it because we like it. Dante's counterpoint with the documentary film is asking whether you like the part you don't see? In sum total, is this likeable?

Logic is a  limited tool. Ethicists have struggled for centuries to use logic to define right and wrong without success. Some things aren't meant for logic: emotion, kindness, compassion and hope rank high among them. 

I agree about logic! It's all up to the individual.



Aside from some medical reason, I fail to see any logical reason for going vegetarian.  I don't mean to start a war, or piss anyone off with this statement, my brain just can't comprehend it.

Check this out: Earthlings Documentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwd0jcbiKV0)

Note: The irony isn't lost on me. I'm someone who has demonstrated that Veganism hasn't made me feel all that hot.  Still I'm going to keep working at it until I find the right formula.

I still fail to see how this is a logical reason for going vegetarian.  I am still going to eat meat, wear natural leather gloves and work boot every day.  Granted I don't agree with beating of animals, but some "poor" treatment is a necessary evil for the efficiency required to keep these products at a reasonable price for the people that need them.

Edit:  Also, we test on animals because the testing that needs to be done before human trials can be done in a minute fraction of the time that would be needed for going straight to human trials because a lot of the animals have been bred to be susceptible to certain cancers and such.  Plus, it is one hell of a stretch to compare raising cattle to the Holocaust.

Melvang, your invoking login here in spurious way. We don't eat meat or wear leather because it's logical. We do it because we like it. Dante's counterpoint with the documentary film is asking whether you like the part you don't see? In sum total, is this likeable?

Logic is a  limited tool. Ethicists have struggled for centuries to use logic to define right and wrong without success. Some things aren't meant for logic: emotion, kindness, compassion and hope rank high among them.

Actually eating meat is logical, humans are omnivore by design and genetics.  Wearing leather is required and logical in my job.  Try working any of the industrial construction trades without wearing leather gloves or leather work boots.  I bet you wouldn't last 2 hours on any job site before you were escorted off site.

While I don't "see" what goes on behind the scenes on a day to day basis, I understand fully what does happen.  I do fish and eat them, though I don't hunt, it is mostly due to the lack of time, and I never learned to shoot left handed even though I am predominately right handed, but I am left eye dominant.  So I don't want to miss and just wound an animal and not be able to track it.  Also, I do oppose hunting animals just for the killing of them, unless there are extenuating circumstances.  Such as overpopulation, and invasive species such as these Asian carp creeping up the US waterways, and the wild hogs in the south.  Though ribs from a hog shot in Tennessee I tried were excellent.

But to answer your question, Whether i like the part I don't see?, I wouldn't say I like it, but I accept it.  Granted I didn't exactly grow up on what most people consider a farm, but my grandma who lived next door, raised chickens for eggs, and my grandfather raised chickens for sale.  While he had chickens, he would have no less than 60k birds at any time.  So, I probably have a bit more experience than most of the younger crowd today.

It's all about the individual! I personally have many reasons why it's logical for ME to not eat meat. a few :

1. I have the same amount of compassion for a cow or chicken that I do for a dog or cat. I would not lock a dog in tiny cage on a concrete pad and force feed it corn so I could eat it, so I do not condone that practice for pigs/cows/chickens

2. I like fruit and veggies and get all necessary nutrients from them. Humans (or at least some) do not NEED meat.

3. Livestock is a major contributor to an increase in greenhouse gases. Some studies claim livestock produces more pollution than cars and trucks combined.

4. The plants grown to fatten up livestock could be reallocated to feeding humans with more efficiency

5. Meat is associated with a diet that is high in saturated fat which correlates with high cholesterol/heart disease. People who consume a plant based diet have ~20% less risk of heart disease.

6. Weight. I've been able to lose and easily maintain a healthy weight since becoming vegetarian whereas I always struggled with my size/health when I ate a lot of meat.

I don't have a problem with humans and animals using one another or humans eating animals in general. In an ideal world, a human would take care of an animal in exchange for eggs/milk/fur and towards the end of the animals life, the human would use it for meat/leather/goods. The problem is that in our culture of mass production, animals are treated inhumanely and are forced into conditions that would be illegal if it were a dog or cat or human. All the mutual respect is gone and now humans see animals as servants or resources.


For context - I grew up on a farm as well! We even raised cows from calves and would have one slaughtered once a year for 2 freezers full of meat. My family also fished/hunted and I helped prepare meat and cook. I never had a problem with these practices. To me, the meat I was eating came from happy animals that had normal lives. I didn't find out about the abuse and factory farming and such until I got to college. The more I learned about the abuse of animals, the more I wanted to just not contribute to it. I basically just started involuntarily seeing THIS (https://vimeo.com/73234721) instead of happy farm animals every time I went to eat meat and eventually I just couldn't eat it anymore.


So yea, being veg works for me! but at the end of the day I am a pretty firm believer in "each to their own". We all have our own convictions.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 07 July 2015, 23:57:52
So yea, being veg works for me! but at the end of the day I am a pretty firm believer in "each to their own". We all have our own convictions.
See, this is the stance that everyone should take.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: rsadek on Wed, 08 July 2015, 00:17:09
Melvang I think the reason Dante linked the documentary was to give an unblinking view of what we don't see. You say you fully understand and accept it; I thought so too until I started watching such things. It sounds from your description that you observed farming practice many years ago. 60k birds is a small size today. Are you sure you've seen the whole industry? Large-scale pig,cow and chicken slaughter in particular? From your description, you sound like a kind person (e.g.uninterested in killing for sport).

So when I see pigs boiled or roasted alive (heat renders the fat, making the skin easier to remove) and screaming in pain because the "stun" machine missed or was ineffective; or cows conscious and howling while conveyors drag them through huge band saws; or chickens flayed alive on the floor slowly dying for hours because the decapitation machine ripped them off the hooks holding them up: I don't think this is what you mean to "accept" is it? I hope not.

I hope not because it's wrong. It doesn't have to be this way. Mechanization reduces cost, yet there are no regulations requiring efficacy of the machines, or humanity toward the creatures. And there never will be. Who will fight that legal battle? As long as bacon is cheap, companies are making alot of money. They have expensive lawyers. Socially it's considered weak or unmanly or naïve to worry about the animals well-being. Vegans are mocked for being weak and childish; few question the system implementing these horrors.

From the negligence of food inspectors passing contaminated foods, to the cruel in efficacy of mechanized slaughter, to the traumatic stress and subsequent sadism of the slaughterhouse workers, I found there is much I didn't know and much I can't accept about the animal industries. Indeed I find it hard to believe that anyone accepts these truths once they see them. Which is why the industry works hard to hide them from us.

You need leather for your job, that's fine. What you pose here is pragmatism. I accept it. It sounds like there's no better option. Why would there be? Decades of corn subsidies bringing down the costs of beef production makes this type of leather inexpensive. So there's little or no profit in creating a non-leather replacement. Makes sense.

But pragmatism is not logic. By logic I mean the subject concerned with formal rules and provable statements. The claim it is logical (or even pragmatic) to eat meat is poorly supported. Consider too the economic, environmental, and health/epidemiological effects of low-cost animal consumption.  The pragmatist argument that humans are omnivores and therefore should eat meat is thin. It doesn't hold up to the horrifying effects of industrial meat production.

On these grounds, one could argue it is irrational for us to accept any of it. I claim it is.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 08 July 2015, 00:38:43
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-farmacy/201205/do-happy-healthy-brains-need-meat
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: rsadek on Wed, 08 July 2015, 01:09:01
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-farmacy/201205/do-happy-healthy-brains-need-meat (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-farmacy/201205/do-happy-healthy-brains-need-meat)

Dr. Ramsey here first raises an interesting clam: if your B12 is low, why not have an oyster. Sure, why not. It's dubious that one would need to; you can get B12 other ways. Only about half of his vegan sample was B12 defecient. He does not state the percentage of deficient males in the non-vegan sample; I'd guess it was about 50%.

But then he goes off the rails, claiming that mother nature is much crueler to animals than mankind, b/c, you know, sometimes they'll be cold or hungry. Compared to the disease-ridden feedlot and poor slaughter methods (e.g. sawed or boiled alive as I mentioned above) mother nature is quite friendly. It amounts to some bad writing, following up some bad statistics; I expect more from a professor. 

If a vegan with B12 deficiency feels he needs an oyster a day, great, not a big deal. One could also have some silken tofu and or almond milk. This oyster business is fundamentally not the point. It doesn't undermine the goal of avoiding cruelty, or justify slaughterhouse practices or even suggest that there's a B12 reason to avoid veganism. The article does not make a clear distinction between vegans and non-vegan samples w.r.t to B12 deficiency. I have about 2 cups of almond milk or soy milk w/ my cereal, which puts me at 100% daily value for B12. For most people (unless they have malabsorption) it is easy to ensure sufficient B12. 
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 08 July 2015, 01:38:02
I still think it's quite amazing that the suffering of animals gets so much press and is generally considered to be important. When the suffering of humans is considered in a very different light, I only hope I don't have to live with a horribly debilitating and painful illness that will kill me over an extended period of time, because unlike animals (at least in most countries) I would have to live in pain until it killed me, rather than letting me end my suffering on my own terms.

But it's funny reading the total nonsense in this thread;
-a meat diet is typical of a diet of saturated fat etc... Some srs dumb ****
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: paicrai on Wed, 08 July 2015, 05:14:15
what about eating meat from local butchers where you know the animals have/are being treated well? because a lot of points i see raised here is not wanting to contribute to an american style massive insane hyperproduction cluster****, but what about those that are actually humane? will that be an exception or like should just nothing ever be dead
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: iri on Wed, 08 July 2015, 05:56:08
I never learned to shoot left handed even though I am predominately right handed, but I am left eye dominant.
Hmm, I always hunted right handed even though I'm the same as you are.

what about eating meat from local butchers where you know the animals have/are being treated well?
UK seems obsessed with that.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 08 July 2015, 09:43:01
Yikes. This is bordering on Islamophobia.
Oh don't bring that bull**** here
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Wed, 08 July 2015, 16:02:59
There is no humane way for death. I like humane farmers more then factory, yes of course. They treat them better so that is awesome. Though, they're still getting slaughtered. So either way, you are contributing to that animal being killed. The solution is to not breed extra animals, just to kill them. We need more vegetable and plant farmers. We would also save on water, and help the planet. I don't force any veganism on people. I used to be very stubborn and just ignore all of the articles/videos I saw.  So Ive been there myself. Though, I feel WAY better now, knowing that I do not contribute to any animal suffering.

Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company. I look on the back of all of my cruelty free products and none of them would need to be tested on animals or humans, they are NATURAL ingredients not chemicals that could cause humans harm. Buy cruelty free/vegan! End the animal torture and pain.

I dont want to talk about this on here, this is my forum for keyboard talk, not veganism. I just needed to say my view and I dont mind if you dont agree.  People have the right to do and eat whatever they please. :)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 08 July 2015, 16:05:08
There is no humane way for death. I like humane farmers more then factory, yes of course. They treat them better so that is awesome. Though, they're still getting slaughtered. So either way, you are contributing to that animal being killed. The solution is to not breed extra animals, just to kill them. We need more vegetable and plant farmers. We would also save on water, and help the planet. I don't force any veganism on people. I used to be very stubborn and just ignore all of the articles/videos I saw.  So Ive been there myself. Though, I feel WAY better now, knowing that I do not contribute to any animal suffering.

Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company. I look on the back of all of my cruelty free products and none of them would need to be tested on animals or humans, they are NATURAL ingredients not chemicals that could cause humans harm. Buy cruelty free/vegan! End the animal torture and pain.

I dont want to talk about this on here, this is my forum for keyboard talk, not veganism. I just needed to say my view and I dont mind if you dont agree.  People have the right to do and eat whatever they please. :)

I eat meat and also don't contribute to the suffering of animals, if anything I give there life purpose, which is something human life will never have..
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Wed, 08 July 2015, 16:05:58
There is no humane way for death. I like humane farmers more then factory, yes of course. They treat them better so that is awesome. Though, they're still getting slaughtered. So either way, you are contributing to that animal being killed. The solution is to not breed extra animals, just to kill them. We need more vegetable and plant farmers. We would also save on water, and help the planet. I don't force any veganism on people. I used to be very stubborn and just ignore all of the articles/videos I saw.  So Ive been there myself. Though, I feel WAY better now, knowing that I do not contribute to any animal suffering.

Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company. I look on the back of all of my cruelty free products and none of them would need to be tested on animals or humans, they are NATURAL ingredients not chemicals that could cause humans harm. Buy cruelty free/vegan! End the animal torture and pain.

I dont want to talk about this on here, this is my forum for keyboard talk, not veganism. I just needed to say my view and I dont mind if you dont agree.  People have the right to do and eat whatever they please. :)

I eat meat and also don't contribute to the suffering of animals, if anything I give there life purpose, which is something human life will never have..

Im not sure I understand your statement. So you eat meat but you buy cruelty free products?
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 08 July 2015, 16:09:13
There is no humane way for death. I like humane farmers more then factory, yes of course. They treat them better so that is awesome. Though, they're still getting slaughtered. So either way, you are contributing to that animal being killed. The solution is to not breed extra animals, just to kill them. We need more vegetable and plant farmers. We would also save on water, and help the planet. I don't force any veganism on people. I used to be very stubborn and just ignore all of the articles/videos I saw.  So Ive been there myself. Though, I feel WAY better now, knowing that I do not contribute to any animal suffering.

Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company. I look on the back of all of my cruelty free products and none of them would need to be tested on animals or humans, they are NATURAL ingredients not chemicals that could cause humans harm. Buy cruelty free/vegan! End the animal torture and pain.

I dont want to talk about this on here, this is my forum for keyboard talk, not veganism. I just needed to say my view and I dont mind if you dont agree.  People have the right to do and eat whatever they please. :)

I eat meat and also don't contribute to the suffering of animals, if anything I give there life purpose, which is something human life will never have..

Im not sure I understand your statement. So you eat meat but you buy cruelty free products?

I try. To not buy meat products that are farmed properly is the same as not voting. Sure your not contributing to the problem of voting in the worst pieces of **** possible, but your also not helping solve the problem.

If you care about animal welfare you should be supporting those that give animals farmed for food the best lives possible and making that a sustainable business.

Just abstaining from it doesn't help anyone but yourself, the problem still exists your just unwilling to help the people who farm meat but in  a way that doesn't result in suffering.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Wed, 08 July 2015, 16:23:42
There is no humane way for death. I like humane farmers more then factory, yes of course. They treat them better so that is awesome. Though, they're still getting slaughtered. So either way, you are contributing to that animal being killed. The solution is to not breed extra animals, just to kill them. We need more vegetable and plant farmers. We would also save on water, and help the planet. I don't force any veganism on people. I used to be very stubborn and just ignore all of the articles/videos I saw.  So Ive been there myself. Though, I feel WAY better now, knowing that I do not contribute to any animal suffering.

Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company. I look on the back of all of my cruelty free products and none of them would need to be tested on animals or humans, they are NATURAL ingredients not chemicals that could cause humans harm. Buy cruelty free/vegan! End the animal torture and pain.

I dont want to talk about this on here, this is my forum for keyboard talk, not veganism. I just needed to say my view and I dont mind if you dont agree.  People have the right to do and eat whatever they please. :)

I eat meat and also don't contribute to the suffering of animals, if anything I give there life purpose, which is something human life will never have..

Im not sure I understand your statement. So you eat meat but you buy cruelty free products?

I try. To not buy meat products that are farmed properly is the same as not voting. Sure your not contributing to the problem of voting in the worst pieces of **** possible, but your also not helping solve the problem.

If you care about animal welfare you should be supporting those that give animals farmed for food the best lives possible and making that a sustainable business.

Just abstaining from it doesn't help anyone but yourself, the problem still exists your just unwilling to help the people who farm meat but in  a way that doesn't result in suffering.

Thats good, I wish factory farms didnt exist. If the need for fast food meat was low enough then I wonder if only humane farms would be out there. It would be nice if that were the only type.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 08 July 2015, 16:27:32
There is no humane way for death. I like humane farmers more then factory, yes of course. They treat them better so that is awesome. Though, they're still getting slaughtered. So either way, you are contributing to that animal being killed. The solution is to not breed extra animals, just to kill them. We need more vegetable and plant farmers. We would also save on water, and help the planet. I don't force any veganism on people. I used to be very stubborn and just ignore all of the articles/videos I saw.  So Ive been there myself. Though, I feel WAY better now, knowing that I do not contribute to any animal suffering.

Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company. I look on the back of all of my cruelty free products and none of them would need to be tested on animals or humans, they are NATURAL ingredients not chemicals that could cause humans harm. Buy cruelty free/vegan! End the animal torture and pain.

I dont want to talk about this on here, this is my forum for keyboard talk, not veganism. I just needed to say my view and I dont mind if you dont agree.  People have the right to do and eat whatever they please. :)

I eat meat and also don't contribute to the suffering of animals, if anything I give there life purpose, which is something human life will never have..

Im not sure I understand your statement. So you eat meat but you buy cruelty free products?

I try. To not buy meat products that are farmed properly is the same as not voting. Sure your not contributing to the problem of voting in the worst pieces of **** possible, but your also not helping solve the problem.

If you care about animal welfare you should be supporting those that give animals farmed for food the best lives possible and making that a sustainable business.

Just abstaining from it doesn't help anyone but yourself, the problem still exists your just unwilling to help the people who farm meat but in  a way that doesn't result in suffering.

Thats good, I wish factory farms didnt exist. If the need for fast food meat was low enough then I wonder if only humane farms would be out there. It would be nice if that were the only type.

indeed, I don't have the problem with having a diet of only vegetables etc that's fine and your own personal choice. What I dislike is that veganism and other similar things are put forward as an anti animal suffering diet and that by doing it, your helping and that people that eat meat are part of the problem.
When that's not at all the case and that by eating the right kinds of meat, your actually helping animal welfare.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: fanpeople on Wed, 08 July 2015, 16:45:54
There is more to this then just making more farms for vegitable, grains etc. farming regardless of product can be very damaging to the natural habitat of well any animal so i think people need to look to the concept of highrise farming using some form of sustainable technology for vegitables etc. As for the harvesting process of grain well my understanding is that the thrashing process takes its fair share of animals chilling in the fields so its not entirely death free. I dont like the creulty part of meat but at the same time i do think eating other animals is part of life. Mind you i wont eat veal just because its a pretty dispicable concept, same as chicken just because in my opinion the scale of death for quantity of food is not that great. Also i usually have about 3 days of meat free meals. I would consider going vegitarian to be honust but i do think that the production all foods has an impact on the wellbeing of something whether it be farmed animals or cleared land on native animals. Shouldnt we be living of sustainment pills in space by now anyway.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: rsadek on Wed, 08 July 2015, 20:47:37
I eagerly await the invention of sustainment pills.Think of the time savings. It will be amazing. 

The OP was about a fellow GeekHacker seeking advice adjusting to a new lifestyle choice (veganism). It would be nice for us to return the thread to that purpose, rather than a referendum on the subject of veganism. We're here for a love of keyboards and community. There's no need to convince each other of anything except Alps vs Topre vs Cherry MX.

Dante, Isa Chandra Moskowitz is a great source of ideas. She is a food genius! Here's her site http://www.theppk.com/
It has tons of great recipes and ideas; most of which are not too difficult. She's awesome!

-R
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 08 July 2015, 20:56:49
Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company.please. :)
Something tells me that lots of incredibly important products we have today wouldn't be possible if we only used "all-natural" ingredients or didn't ever test anything on animals
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tbc on Wed, 08 July 2015, 21:58:35
Also, for animal testing. If they aren't using all natural ingredients then something is wrong with the company.please. :)
Something tells me that lots of incredibly important products we have today wouldn't be possible if we only used "all-natural" ingredients or didn't ever test anything on animals

on the animal testing side, technically, we would have these things if we lived in nazi germany and imperial japan.

given the choice of western society, living under the axis powers, or not having antibiotics, i'd pick western society with animal cruelty over more dead humans (puts on flame suit because i called jews human)

yes, i an aware we already used some of the medical things they discovered from unwilling human test subjects.


Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 08 July 2015, 23:46:30
Silken tofu goes great with guacomole.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: demik on Thu, 09 July 2015, 00:08:56
Don't you soil guacamole with tofu. Don't you dare
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 09 July 2015, 00:09:44
Don't you soil guacamole with tofu. Don't you dare

kekekekekekekekekekeke

I'm telling you,  it works ...
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: demik on Thu, 09 July 2015, 00:11:26
Many things work, doesn't mean it's a good idea
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Thu, 09 July 2015, 05:01:00
Check out these cookbooks man :)

But I Could Never Go Vegan by Kristy Turner
The Oh She Glows Cookbook by Angela Liddon
Isa Does It by Isa Chandra Moskowitz
Vegan Casseroles by Hasson
Chloe's Vegan Italian Kitchen by Chloe Cascarelli

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Thu, 09 July 2015, 08:49:37
It's not recipes I have an issue with as much as side effects from a good sampling of the veg kingdom.

Low carb foods (Tofu , Broccoli, Cauliflower) don't effect me negatively.  In fact, my teeth feel much better after several days of giving up rice/potatoes.  Sensitivity is down and my gums don't bleed when I brush.

Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 09 July 2015, 08:54:18
Many things work, doesn't mean it's a good idea
get with the times demik, all the cool kids eat tofu
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 09 July 2015, 09:25:24
Many things work, doesn't mean it's a good idea
get with the times demik, all the cool kids eat tofu

tofu is a food mystery to me, I've never seen it in a shop/restaraunt and never tasted it
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Thu, 09 July 2015, 09:43:21
Many things work, doesn't mean it's a good idea
get with the times demik, all the cool kids eat tofu

tofu is a food mystery to me, I've never seen it in a shop/restaraunt and never tasted it

There are Tofu shops mostly on West Coast.  Several great places around the San Francisco area.

You need to understand that 95% of the Tofu on the market sucks.  You need to research to find the good stuff. My current goto is Mitsuwa Soft; which is the absolute best I can find in the Chicagoland area.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 09 July 2015, 10:07:53
Many things work, doesn't mean it's a good idea
get with the times demik, all the cool kids eat tofu

tofu is a food mystery to me, I've never seen it in a shop/restaraunt and never tasted it

There are Tofu shops mostly on West Coast.

So Wales then?
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 09 July 2015, 10:15:33
Save animals , Eat baguette.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: paicrai on Thu, 09 July 2015, 10:30:28
Yikes. This is bordering on Islamophobia.
Oh don't bring that bull**** here
rsadek, please bring more of it here
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 09 July 2015, 10:32:17
Yikes. This is bordering on Islamophobia.
Oh don't bring that bull**** here
rsadek, please bring more of it here
why are you even here
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 09 July 2015, 10:45:55
So Wales then?

Cornwall
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Thu, 09 July 2015, 12:14:04
Hottest Taiwan Tofu seller? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3135981/Hottest-bean-curd-seller-takes-Taiwan-storm.html)

Make that Bean Curd SON!

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/23/12/29E2FBD300000578-0-Hot_stuff_Bean_curd_seller_Yi_Tinchen_26_has_had_his_pictures_sh-a-59_1435059110366.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/23/13/29E2EE1400000578-3135981-image-a-12_1435061578603.jpg)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 09 July 2015, 13:35:46
Hottest Taiwan Tofu seller? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3135981/Hottest-bean-curd-seller-takes-Taiwan-storm.html)

Make that Bean Curd SON!

Show Image
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/23/12/29E2FBD300000578-0-Hot_stuff_Bean_curd_seller_Yi_Tinchen_26_has_had_his_pictures_sh-a-59_1435059110366.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/23/13/29E2EE1400000578-3135981-image-a-12_1435061578603.jpg)


Hahahahahha  (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/70bff581.gif)

Is he your -Thinspo-  Dante ??

Tofu-Kun here's why you're eating all them boxes of Tofu ?
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 09 July 2015, 14:24:25
haha he has a tiny penis
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 09 July 2015, 14:32:52
haha he has a tiny penis

haha.. that's the first thing you look at eh? hahahahaha
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 09 July 2015, 14:51:00
haha he has a tiny penis

haha.. that's the first thing you look at eh? hahahahaha

Nope, first thing was nips...
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: paicrai on Thu, 09 July 2015, 14:54:16
Hottest Taiwan Tofu seller? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3135981/Hottest-bean-curd-seller-takes-Taiwan-storm.html)

Make that Bean Curd SON!

Show Image
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/23/12/29E2FBD300000578-0-Hot_stuff_Bean_curd_seller_Yi_Tinchen_26_has_had_his_pictures_sh-a-59_1435059110366.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/23/13/29E2EE1400000578-3135981-image-a-12_1435061578603.jpg)

he can put lots of his white stuff in my mouth

Yikes. This is bordering on Islamophobia.
Oh don't bring that bull**** here
rsadek, please bring more of it here
why are you even here
to suck **** and make people like you annoyed

Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Thu, 09 July 2015, 14:57:50
Yikes. This is bordering on Islamophobia.
Oh don't bring that bull**** here
rsadek, please bring more of it here
why are you even here
to suck **** and make people like you annoyed
congrats bud, outside not working out so well?
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: paicrai on Thu, 09 July 2015, 15:02:24
Yikes. This is bordering on Islamophobia.
Oh don't bring that bull**** here
rsadek, please bring more of it here
why are you even here
to suck **** and make people like you annoyed
congrats bud, outside not working out so well?
(http://i.imgur.com/kUzqa6m.gif)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 09 July 2015, 15:14:41
I'm really wondering if tofu would aid muscle building... hrmmm........


Problem however, is still cost...  Tofu is extremely expensive in the USA
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 09 July 2015, 21:14:54
Late @ night.  my inhibition-unit malfunctions...  And I start eating chocolate.. (http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/n/y/nyorononionplz.gif?1)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Thu, 09 July 2015, 21:49:25
Problem however, is still cost...  Tofu is extremely expensive in the USA

On sale you can get good quality Tofu for around $1.39 for non-organic and $1.79 for organic.  That's around 360 calories for a block.  Not bad for the price!
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 10 July 2015, 00:49:22
Problem however, is still cost...  Tofu is extremely expensive in the USA

On sale you can get good quality Tofu for around $1.39 for non-organic and $1.79 for organic.  That's around 360 calories for a block.  Not bad for the price!

I'm not counting the calories on the tofu, LOL,  it's that the protein content is much lower than chicken breast
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 10 July 2015, 07:32:01
Well of course. Nothing has protein density like meat.

If you make choices based on density of nutrients, then you reduce the volume that you consume, but eating a larger quantity of high-quality nutrients is probably much cheaper and easier.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Fri, 10 July 2015, 08:26:55
On brotein ...

Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: RAMPSKALLE on Fri, 10 July 2015, 10:14:46
I don't feel like I have the right to choose whether or not to end another creatures life. Even if it's "natural" I don't feel like it needs to be the natural order of things for humans anymore. And it's also pretty dumb to mass produce meat the way we do. For protein I just eat tons of peanut butter. Every day.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Fri, 10 July 2015, 10:21:19
I'm really wondering if tofu would aid muscle building... hrmmm........


Problem however, is still cost...  Tofu is extremely expensive in the USA

The issue is that the bioavailability of soy protein is less than that of meat proteins and whey protein. Soy protein has to be eaten in larger quantities than that in meats to get similar amounts of protein. There are a ton of vegan protein powders out there. Hemp, pea, rice, but I have heard that they mix poorly and can be gritty.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dante on Fri, 10 July 2015, 10:48:11
I'm really wondering if tofu would aid muscle building... hrmmm........


Problem however, is still cost...  Tofu is extremely expensive in the USA

The issue is that the bioavailability of soy protein is less than that of meat proteins and whey protein. Soy protein has to be eaten in larger quantities than that in meats to get similar amounts of protein. There are a ton of vegan protein powders out there. Hemp, pea, rice, but I have heard that they mix poorly and can be gritty.

The problem is - people are already getting way more protein than they need.  If anything Soy protein - when I say this I mean from Tofu (Good) not Soy Protein Isolate (Bad) - would be a better option because your body won't have to deal with large quantities of protein.

From what I gather from the vegan circle I've seen healthy people consuming anything between 20g-50g a day and be perfectly healthy (bicycle riding, weight lifting, etc.)  For my situation I think mine sits a bit higher around 60-80 for me to be alright.  But that is not difficult or expensive to achieve with plant foods.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Fri, 10 July 2015, 10:54:51
I'm really wondering if tofu would aid muscle building... hrmmm........


Problem however, is still cost...  Tofu is extremely expensive in the USA

The issue is that the bioavailability of soy protein is less than that of meat proteins and whey protein. Soy protein has to be eaten in larger quantities than that in meats to get similar amounts of protein. There are a ton of vegan protein powders out there. Hemp, pea, rice, but I have heard that they mix poorly and can be gritty.

The problem is - people are already getting way more protein than they need.  If anything Soy protein - when I say this I mean from Tofu (Good) not Soy Protein Isolate (Bad) - would be a better option because your body won't have to deal with large quantities of protein.

From what I gather from the vegan circle I've seen healthy people consuming anything between 20g-50g a day and be perfectly healthy (bicycle riding, weight lifting, etc.)  For my situation I think mine sits a bit higher around 60-80 for me to be alright.  But that is not difficult or expensive to achieve with plant foods.

It really depends on what your goals are. Yes the protein intakes you mentioned can be considered healthy. If you want to put on significant muscle mass and are a large person(for me 6'4" 250), I would say I take in around 175g of protein per day and eat around 3500 calories. It would be difficult without supplementation.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: hwood34 on Fri, 10 July 2015, 11:30:24
I'm really wondering if tofu would aid muscle building... hrmmm........


Problem however, is still cost...  Tofu is extremely expensive in the USA

The issue is that the bioavailability of soy protein is less than that of meat proteins and whey protein. Soy protein has to be eaten in larger quantities than that in meats to get similar amounts of protein. There are a ton of vegan protein powders out there. Hemp, pea, rice, but I have heard that they mix poorly and can be gritty.

The problem is - people are already getting way more protein than they need.  If anything Soy protein - when I say this I mean from Tofu (Good) not Soy Protein Isolate (Bad) - would be a better option because your body won't have to deal with large quantities of protein.

From what I gather from the vegan circle I've seen healthy people consuming anything between 20g-50g a day and be perfectly healthy (bicycle riding, weight lifting, etc.)  For my situation I think mine sits a bit higher around 60-80 for me to be alright.  But that is not difficult or expensive to achieve with plant foods.

It really depends on what your goals are. Yes the protein intakes you mentioned can be considered healthy. If you want to put on significant muscle mass and are a large person(for me 6'4" 250), I would say I take in around 175g of protein per day and eat around 3500 calories. It would be difficult without supplementation.

An easy rule of thumb just seems to be third your weight. So like I try and get anywhere between 50-60g a day. Now if you're trying to bulk up obviously it's a different story, more like a little over half.
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 10 July 2015, 18:48:44
(https://mtlveg.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/funny-picture-ron-swanson-vegetarian-meal.jpg)
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: dustinhxc on Fri, 10 July 2015, 21:48:34
Show Image
(https://mtlveg.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/funny-picture-ron-swanson-vegetarian-meal.jpg)


I think hes hilarious in parks!


It's not recipes I have an issue with as much as side effects from a good sampling of the veg kingdom.

Low carb foods (Tofu , Broccoli, Cauliflower) don't effect me negatively.  In fact, my teeth feel much better after several days of giving up rice/potatoes.  Sensitivity is down and my gums don't bleed when I brush.

Hmm.. Ive never ever heard of teeth getting sensitive from food besides cold/hot food. Thats super odd, Id forsure go to the doctor.  :-X
Title: Re: Do we have Vegans/Frutarians on GH?
Post by: paicrai on Sat, 11 July 2015, 07:41:07

Show Image
(https://mtlveg.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/funny-picture-ron-swanson-vegetarian-meal.jpg)

"but sir this is a prepared meal" *police sirens in the distance*