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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 02 October 2009, 21:33:06

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 02 October 2009, 21:33:06

Before I begin describing my observation, I would like to point out that I'm not sure if it's the keyboard which is faulty or if I'm actually the one triggering the behaviour.

Anyway, has anyone of you noticed that sometimes the Filco FKB104M/EB would add an extra space character? This behaviour did not attract my attention until courses started and I had to take a lot of notes. I've noticed this behaviour in Office 2008 (Mac) mostly, because that's what I used for my notes. On very rare occasion, I have the impression that an extra space character is triggered when I'm doing speed test.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: d4rkst4r on Fri, 02 October 2009, 21:35:56

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;122448

... has anyone of you noticed that sometimes the Filco FKB104M/EB would add an extra space character?

I've never noticed this and I've been using my Italian Red version every day for a few weeks now.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 02 October 2009, 21:51:14

Blue switches are easy to accidentally double-actuate due to the unique way they click. I only assume the green spacebar switch is the same way.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 02 October 2009, 21:58:56

Quote from: timw4mail;122452

Blue switches are easy to accidentally double-actuate due to the unique way they click. I only assume the green spacebar switch is the same way.

But, my Filco is equipped with Brown Cherries. I have not noticed the same  behaviour on my Blue Cherries G80 keyboard. In fact, I make the least amount of typo on my G80. That's one of the many reasons why it's my favourite keyboard :-)

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 02 October 2009, 22:11:31

Maybe it's just me. I will continue monitoring it. I'm currently using it as my primary keyboard at home because since my wife has been able to compare my Filco noise level to the G80's, she cannot go back not knowing. Ignorace is bliss.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: hyperlinked on Fri, 02 October 2009, 22:25:33

I have the same keyboard and have had no such problems.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 11:49:56

Maybe it's just me. It's harder to test this thoroughly when typing notes. I will be getting a better test when typing my essays.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 12:29:50

Quote from: ripster;122577

It's you.

Show Image

(http://lostseouls.com/bloguk2/leeds%20petes%20thumbs.jpg)

When I read the comment  in my e-mail programme, and saw "It's you," I immediately knew it was from Ripster.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: banquo on Sat, 03 October 2009, 12:43:07

I have the same keyboard, as well as the same problem (just happened 3 times as I typed that first sentence). The spacebar on that keyboard is capricious.  The problem persists across programs, and is not limited to Word.  It could be me (us), but I have not encountered this problem in my other boards.  

One reasonable partial solution:  I have a Mac and I lowered the 'key repeat rate' toggle, and that helps a bit, but since lowering it seems to cause (for unknown reasons) other issues in the Mac system, I usually leave it pretty high.  Frustrated a few months back, I switched to my Model M for a few months, but after brown cherries, typing on the Model M is more of a workout than I could tolerate.  So, I'm back to the Filco...and extra spaces.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: majestouch on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:13:19

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;122448

Anyway, has anyone of you noticed that sometimes the Filco FKB104M/EB would add an extra space character?

Trying to understand your meaning here. When you say "add an extra space," do you mean that when you press the spacebar you get 2 spaces sometimes?

If so, then 2 possibilities I can think of

1. You're a space bar idler: you type with your thumb resting on the spacebar and you inadvertently press it.  

2. You have a switch that is double actuating, which would need to be fixed.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:21:59

Quote from: banquo;122582

I have the same keyboard, as well as the same problem (just happened 3 times as I typed that first sentence). The spacebar on that keyboard is capricious.  The problem persists across programs, and is not limited to Word.  It could be me (us), but I have not encountered this problem in my other boards.  

One reasonable partial solution:  I have a Mac and I lowered the 'key repeat rate' toggle, and that helps a bit, but since lowering it seems to cause (for unknown reasons) other issues in the Mac system, I usually leave it pretty high.  Frustrated a few months back, I switched to my Model M for a few months, but after brown cherries, typing on the Model M is more of a workout than I could tolerate.  So, I'm back to the Filco...and extra spaces.

Glad to hear that I was not going crazy. It's pretty much the same experience to mine and like you I'm on a Mac. One thing I also noticed (once only) is that CAPS Lock was on but the LED was not. I could not understand why my password was not accepted until I tried to retype my username again.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:24:04

Quote from: majestouch;122592

Trying to understand your meaning here. When you say "add an extra space," do you mean that when you press the spacebar you get 2 spaces sometimes?

If so, then 2 possibilities I can think of

1. You're a space bar idler: you type with your thumb resting on the spacebar and you inadvertently press it.  

2. You have a switch that is double actuating, which would need to be fixed.

I'm not a space bar idler, that's for sure, and I don't rest my wrists when typing either. So, I think we can eliminated this possible cause.

It may need to be fixed, but I'm not very fond of sending it across the border :-(

In my previous comment, I said that I (only once) noticed that my Caps Lock was on without the LED being lit. I have to monitor the situation.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: mech on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:25:13

NB: I had a double-actuating blue switch, and when I pulled the keycap, there was a hair sticking out of it.

Edit: never mind, search is my friend.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:30:33

I had this problem extensively with rubber dome keyboards, which is one of the main things that drove me to find a way to get a modern equivalent of my old SIIG board with white Alps switches.

I'm now using a Filco 104 Tactile Click at both home and work with no spacebar issues at all. And since I know I'm prone to this exact issue, I definitely think you have a bad switch.

An easy way to test it is to type something like the following sequence over and over as quickly as you can. You shouldn't get double spaces:

a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: majestouch on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:45:37

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;122597

I'm not a space bar idler, that's for sure, and I don't rest my wrists when typing either. So, I think we can eliminated this possible cause.

It may need to be fixed, but I'm not very fond of sending it across the border :-(

In my previous comment, I said that I (only once) noticed that my Caps Lock was on without the LED being lit. I have to monitor the situation.

Yes, please monitor things, the capslock issue sounds *very* strange. And please send an e-mail to support@elitekeyboards.com if these issues persist and we'll figure something out.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:51:41

Quote from: majestouch;122604

Yes, please monitor things, the capslock issue sounds *very* strange. And please send an e-mail to support@elitekeyboards.com if these issues persist and we'll figure something out.

Thanks. It's always nice to see someone standing behind his products :-)

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: majestouch on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:05:16

you've outdone yourself this time ripster!

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:08:19

I just did a test with the a a a a thing and got this:

A a a a a a a a a  a a a a
D d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
G g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g
T t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
E e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e
R r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
W w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w w
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
M m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m
M m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a
A a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a

As you can see, it's not  consistent. There is a extra space just before the last 4 a in the first line, then nothing. However, notice the extra space between not and consistent.

Majestouch, I will monitor this during the next two months. I want to make sure it's a product problem before sending it for repairs.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:09:35

LOL, I just realized that the extra space is truncated once I post the message.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:15:43

Another try, I will attach a .txt file.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: d4rkst4r on Sat, 03 October 2009, 15:09:19

Just a guess, but have you tried to increase your repeat delay setting? I have no idea how to do this in Mac OSX.

Title: Filco FKB104M/EB
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Sat, 03 October 2009, 15:11:46

Quote from: d4rkst4r;122630

Just a guess, but have you tried to increase your repeat delay setting? I have no idea how to do this in Mac OSX.

I have not tried this and like you, I don't know how to do this in OS X. That said, I don't really want to do this because I tend to rotate my keyboards from time to time. I just love my blue Cherries G80 too much :-)