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geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: Lukeyslife on Sun, 12 July 2015, 05:51:53
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Hi guys,
So I have had a problem with my mouse peripherals for ages now, It has lasted over a couple of years. It has been a real problem because I especially love playing FPS games.
The problem is down to general mouse accuracy, I have tried 4-6 different mice on my PC and they all seem to feel "off" in precision; the trouble is it affects both gaming and general desktop usage.
I have tried many different things to try and resolve the issue: I have had mouse acceleration turned off, I have used the MarkC mouse fix, V-sync is off and is worse when turned on.
I have changed mulitple pieces of hardware including: CPU, GPU, MOBO, PSU.
It feels almost like mouse lag or a slight delay, I have tested my monitor to make sure that the refresh rate is on point and it seemed fine.
It has affected every mouse I have tried both wired and even a wireless mouse, ingame and also on the desktop.
It feels like mouse smoothing and a bit of moust lag / delay, it really puts my aim off and I struggle to get what would be considered easy kills. The problem almost feels like I'm aiming with a controller, I would love to have the precision back that I was used to before I had this problem mainly because I get out aimed too easily on PC.
Is there anything you feel I have overlooked or am I missing any details?
Any support would be fantastic, I really hope to resolve the issue sooner than later.
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Lets start with the most obvious one, have you checked your power saving settings?
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what mice did you try already? was it working well at one point and then go downhill?
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Do you use a mouse pad?
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Lets start with the most obvious one, have you checked your power saving settings?
Well to be honest not really lol, that's a good shout. Currently it's on balanced, I guess it should be on high performance?
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what mice did you try already? was it working well at one point and then go downhill?
Well when I first got my PC it was a premade one which just had a basic usb mouse, I then bought a MadCatz RAT3 which at the start was working fine and I had 100% accuracy. After that one day I was playing black Ops 2 and on the desktop I noticed my aim was completely different and I had no idea why as I didn't really change anything.
Then after that I obviously thought it was the fault of the mouse which started a train of me buying 4-5 gaming mice. I also have tried the Razer Deathadder 2013, Anker 8200DPI, Gigabyte M6900, Logitech G402(current mouse) even a wireless Tecknet mouse.
But yea it went downhill, but like I said the RAT 3 felt fantastic for a while at the start so I'm really not sure what has caused this issue.
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Do you use a mouse pad?
Yes I currently use the Mad Catz Glide 3, I also have a goliathus and a Razer Sphinx even with any mouse combo unfortunately neither of the pads really make any difference in accuracy,but just a change in size on the desk
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Lets start with the most obvious one, have you checked your power saving settings?
Well to be honest not really lol, that's a good shout. Currently it's on balanced, I guess it should be on high performance?
Yes, also check if the polling rate of the mouse is doing funny things.
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Lets start with the most obvious one, have you checked your power saving settings?
Well to be honest not really lol, that's a good shout. Currently it's on balanced, I guess it should be on high performance?
Yes, also check if the polling rate of the mouse is doing funny things.
Well I have changed the power option, and I just used the MarkC tool to check the polling rate and it looks pretty steady.
But I do have a hunch sometimes that maybe it's to do with polling rates via the PC not correctly reading the mouse input.
I think it might also be something to do with GPU > Monitor maybe not processing the mouse input on screen correctly, it sounds unlikely but at the minute any theory could be correct
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I'll start somewhere fairly obvious just to cover everything. Have you set your mouse options to be neutral in the Control Panel?
Start -> Control Panel -> Mouse -> Pointer Options
The slider under "Motion" should be set to the 6th tick mark and "Enhance Pointer Precision" should not be checked.
Also what mouse are you using?
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https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68736
?
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I'll start somewhere fairly obvious just to cover everything. Have you set your mouse options to be neutral in the Control Panel?
Start -> Control Panel -> Mouse -> Pointer Options
The slider under "Motion" should be set to the 6th tick mark and "Enhance Pointer Precision" should not be checked.
Also what mouse are you using?
yea I do have it set to those settings, I wish it was that simple :( lol.
I am using the Logitech G402 at the moment.
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https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68736
?
you can probably tell this has gone on for an extremely long time, and that thread never managed to solve it which was a shame despite the great effort.
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You could have saved basically all posters here quite some time, if that thread still applies. It's apparently not software (because of the Ubuntu test) and it's not hardware either.
Bring your mouse to an internet/gaming cafe. Try AimBooster there, compare results to your results at home. If there's a significant difference, you *might* be getting some interference at home. If not, it's (a) your nervous system, (b) nocebo caused by reading too much ESR/OCN—if that's the case, get out more instead of gaming.
Also, ask a friend or someone to try your system at home *without* telling them about the problem you're experiencing.
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You could have saved basically all posters here quite some time, if that thread still applies. It's apparently not software (because of the Ubuntu test) and it's not hardware either.
Bring your mouse to an internet/gaming cafe. Try AimBooster there, compare results to your results at home. If there's a significant difference, you *might* be getting some interference at home. If not, it's (a) your nervous system, (b) nocebo caused by reading too much ESR/OCN—if that's the case, get out more instead of gaming.
Also, ask a friend or someone to try your system at home *without* telling them about the problem you're experiencing.
I am 100% sure it's not me, I have tried PC's at college and instantly felt the difference; I know what it is supposed to feel like as opposed to what I am getting.
Even with this problem I have very good aim but the problem is inconsistency and I cant build muscle memory. Sometimes I help my dad with his laptop and his mouse feels fine on it, I even used that mouse on my PC but it felt bad as well.
My PC does sit next to both my modem and router and is bundled with other plug sockets.
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Mouse acceleration must also be disabled. If your mouse came with software, setup your mouse then uninstall the software. And sense we are more or less all geeks here, disable/uninstall sensors, monitors anything that polls the system.
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You've tried a completely different OS (Ubuntu), and it felt the same, right? Software suggestions are out of question.
You've had at least two different computers in the same place, as well as various mice, and experienced issues in all cases, right? Hardware is out of question.
If a laptop in the same spot doesn't have the same issue, you might want to check power. (It might be worth trying your computer elsewhere too.)
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You've tried a completely different OS (Ubuntu), and it felt the same, right? Software suggestions are out of question.
You've had at least two different computers in the same place, as well as various mice, and experienced issues in all cases, right? Hardware is out of question.
If a laptop in the same spot doesn't have the same issue, you might want to check power. (It might be worth trying your computer elsewhere too.)
Yea both Ubuntu and even Windows 7 now on 8.1, yea 2 PC's in the same spot.
I will try my main PC in another room, it's looking likely a power issue as it's hard to put any blame on other areas as we have both gathered that (hardware,software) has been fleshed out.
I will post the results tomorrow.
Also thanks for helping me with this dav and everyone else, it's not the worst problem in the world but it's frustrating enough.
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Well, there are only so many parts of a PC...given that you've tried the obvious candidates for replacement, the next step is probably to proceed by elimination. Stop thinking about what makes sense, and just focus on what you've actually tested.
Looking at your previous post, I see no mention of:
-The case itself (not just its fans)...could be some kind of short or electromagnetic weirdness going on somewhere.
-The wires that connect the various components to one another. If a wire has gone bad, no amount of changing the things it connects to on either side will solve the problem.
Have you tried changing these things?
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Any chance it could be your lights? You have a bright light over or close to your desk? Even a bad light?
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Well, there are only so many parts of a PC...given that you've tried the obvious candidates for replacement, the next step is probably to proceed by elimination. Stop thinking about what makes sense, and just focus on what you've actually tested.
Looking at your previous post, I see no mention of:
-The case itself (not just its fans)...could be some kind of short or electromagnetic weirdness going on somewhere.
-The wires that connect the various components to one another. If a wire has gone bad, no amount of changing the things it connects to on either side will solve the problem.
Have you tried changing these things?
Well come to think about it, I remember hunting around the internet to see if anyone else has described this same issue. I've only seen 2-3 threads and that's because of deep searching, one guy explained he fixed his by unplugging his case fans. I tried the same and I'm not sure whether it was placebo or not but in CS:go at least something felt snappier, but the overall feel wasn't resolved.
I've used around 2-3 different PSU's since the start so I'm not entirely sure if those cables would be a problem, possibly a SATA cable but I have used different ones as far as I recall.
I wouldn't put it past being something like electromagnetic interference playing with my rig, after I try moving my rig to another power source tomorrow I will look into the fans maybe and any contact which maybe shorting a component.
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Any chance it could be your lights? You have a bright light over or close to your desk? Even a bad light?
The only lights would be from the modem + router next to my monitor, and maybe a couple inside the case
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I never saw a mention of a mouse pad, unless I missed it. Is it old, new? Some types work better with certain mice.
Fans really should have no effect, unless you have an absolute garbage power supply or motherboard or there is some extenuating circumstance. Same for the case, unless it's terrible at blocking stray signals, it shouldn't be an issue (have you tried moving it to the other side of your desk?). Bright lights could have an effect if you are getting reflections under the mouse, however odds of that are slim unless you use a white/glossy mouse pad, glass or mirror. Surface of the pad also can make a mouse feel laggy even if it isn't. If it has any drag, I always feel like the mouse is sluggish. I've thrown a few out because they felt like molasses, tracked great, but felt slow. Try some other surfaces if you haven't.
Is the mouse plugged in direct, or is it run through a hub? Which port on the PC is it in? I always try and go straight to the computer, and use the usb port closest to the ps2 port. Those usually have a higher IRQ, or at least used to. I only use those for keyboard and mouse, nothing else. If you use an extension, make sure it's a good, shielded one. Not a microscopically thin Chinese one from the dollar bin. The same applies to the power cord, make sure it's big, thick and shielded, as is a power strip if you use one.
Another possibility is the houses current. If it's a tad low or fluctuating, that could cause some weird things to happen. If you seem to go through electronics quicker than normal, that could be an indication. A filtering UPS could help in this regard, though they actually help in almost every instance in terms of reliability.
Take a look at other peripherals and what they are plugged into, as well as wiring. Speakers in particular can carry a fair amount of power. Are your wires cleanly routed or all twisted into a rats nest? You could be getting cross talk between not just peripherals but power cables as well.
I said at the beginning that case fan shouldn't be an issue, however, is there any older peripherals inside the box, that old DVD rom, sata cable, or case fan, could have gone bad years ago and giving some odd feedback. They shouldn't, but stranger things have happened. Be especially aware if you have any cold cathode lighting inside the box. These are almost always cheaply made and operate at very high voltage. If you have some, unplug them.
Lastly, move the router and modem.
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Hi guys,
So I tried moving the PC into another room and unfortunately it was the same experience, so I guess that negates the power in my room being the culprit. I suppose this puts my eyes back onto the computer
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Room, not house.
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sorry to read you're still having this issue :<
maybe you're just incredibly sensitive to delay between input and output. it'll never be instantaneous, you know.
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sorry to read you're still having this issue :<
maybe you're just incredibly sensitive to delay between input and output. it'll never be instantaneous, you know.
to be honest it's not to do with the first response when moving the mouse, it's the speed inbetween when actually moving the cursor that feels off.
I tried out Fallout 3 and I could barely control the mouse in the main menu it felt like the cursor sped up and slow down randomly.
I wouldn't say there is a delay upon first movement, but rather a delay in speed and precision when the mouse is being moved.
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every possibility i can think of is pretty much negated by the fact that you've changed so many hardware parts, including peripherals.
ever checked the stability of your polling rate? (i presume you use usb 2.0 ports?)
one thing you could try is look around in your BIOS and just disable as much as you can. everything you don't actually need.
same goes for running services.
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Polling rate in reply #8, mousepads in reply #6.
I'd do two things.
First, use the bare minimum of the computer. Take the PSU+motherboard+CPU+RAM+GPU (if there isn't an on-board one) outside the case, and boot GNU/Linux from a flash drive, with only mouse+keyboard+screen connected (everything directly in on-board USB ports).
Second, do the previous thing, but in a completely different location (friend's house, LAN party, dorm or university lab if possible).
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every possibility i can think of is pretty much negated by the fact that you've changed so many hardware parts, including peripherals.
ever checked the stability of your polling rate? (i presume you use usb 2.0 ports?)
one thing you could try is look around in your BIOS and just disable as much as you can. everything you don't actually need.
same goes for running services.
Are there any programs that could help give visuals on polling rate numbers? and yes I use usb 2.0.
I will dive into the BIOS and services I really hope I can dig something out there
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Have you done typical troubleshooting stuff? Hook your mouse up to a different PC, hook your PC up to a different monitor, try with a fresh install of windows, stuff like that?
There's a chance this might be some issue with drivers from old mouse software causing issues, but then a simple reinstall of windows should be fixing it.
If latency seems to be the issue then you might want to look at your monitor. I used to use an LCD tv as a monitor and those have terrible latency on them because their scalers are made on the cheap and not meant for realtime use.
For me personally I can't stand low refresh rate monitors. I use an ROG Swift at 144hz and using 60 just feels awful now that I've become used to 144, and 144 does legitimately cut down on latency.
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Have you done typical troubleshooting stuff? Hook your mouse up to a different PC, hook your PC up to a different monitor, try with a fresh install of windows, stuff like that?
There's a chance this might be some issue with drivers from old mouse software causing issues, but then a simple reinstall of windows should be fixing it.
If latency seems to be the issue then you might want to look at your monitor. I used to use an LCD tv as a monitor and those have terrible latency on them because their scalers are made on the cheap and not meant for realtime use.
For me personally I can't stand low refresh rate monitors. I use an ROG Swift at 144hz and using 60 just feels awful now that I've become used to 144, and 144 does legitimately cut down on latency.
Well to be honest as I play a varied collection of games I have noticed either lag or some kind of visual delay.
Basically when I play Dirt Rally I do notice the game kind of jolts every couple of seconds, it's quite hard to spot unless you look for it but it's definately there.
Also when playing CS:GO I notice when I die that there is a delay between the death screen and even when I kill people(maybe because of server, however my ping is very low 10-35 and also connection is very good).
could there be an obvious pointer?
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every possibility i can think of is pretty much negated by the fact that you've changed so many hardware parts, including peripherals.
ever checked the stability of your polling rate? (i presume you use usb 2.0 ports?)
one thing you could try is look around in your BIOS and just disable as much as you can. everything you don't actually need.
same goes for running services.
I have disabled most things in the BIOS, what services do you feel should go? are there any common programs
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That sounds more like a graphics driver issue than a mouse issue honestly. I would try a fresh install of windows.
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That sounds more like a graphics driver issue than a mouse issue honestly. I would try a fresh install of windows.
I did just update my drivers a couple of days ago, I'm thinking it's a problem with all my input devices not just my mouse now.
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Updating might not fix things, even if you do a clean install since there can be remnants of old drivers still present or some conflicts from other drivers or software.
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Is that a different problem, not related to the previous one? Because if you've had these issues with your old desktop and on a different OS, I don't think you can suddenly just reinstall some drivers to get unicorns smoothly vomiting rainbows.
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Have you done typical troubleshooting stuff? Hook your mouse up to a different PC, hook your PC up to a different monitor, try with a fresh install of windows, stuff like that?
There's a chance this might be some issue with drivers from old mouse software causing issues, but then a simple reinstall of windows should be fixing it.
If latency seems to be the issue then you might want to look at your monitor. I used to use an LCD tv as a monitor and those have terrible latency on them because their scalers are made on the cheap and not meant for realtime use.
For me personally I can't stand low refresh rate monitors. I use an ROG Swift at 144hz and using 60 just feels awful now that I've become used to 144, and 144 does legitimately cut down on latency.
Well to be honest as I play a varied collection of games I have noticed either lag or some kind of visual delay.
Basically when I play Dirt Rally I do notice the game kind of jolts every couple of seconds, it's quite hard to spot unless you look for it but it's definately there.
Also when playing CS:GO I notice when I die that there is a delay between the death screen and even when I kill people(maybe because of server, however my ping is very low 10-35 and also connection is very good).
could there be an obvious pointer?
Have you tried a different monitor?
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Hi folks,
This is going to sound absolutely unbeliveable ahahah.
As I have had the problem so long I thought what have I got to lose by upgrading to Windows 10, as I was aware that you needed the Windows 10 icon to appear before you can upgrade.
I found out that I needed to update Windows to get it to appear, so I installed like 90 updates booted the PC back on after restart.
And I thought hmmm this seems strange, has my PC suddenly got faster or is it me?
So I loaded steam and thought wow this is much faster, booted up CS:GO and BAM!!!
My precision felt spot on!!
I could aim it felt like there was no hinderance wirth any kind of smoothing etc.
So I hope this isn't premature and I find out it's not fixed at all, but this seriously is the best feeling I've had yet, after these updates I now believe that it must have been some kind of miscommunication between my OS and my hardware.
I also play Dirt Rally with a g27 and noticed that it didn't quite feel right either (yet to test again) so my hunch is that whatever was wrong with my mouse also affected all of my hardware i.e. input devices possibly everything like CPU and RAM.
My PC seems a lot more responsive, either way after nearly 3-4 years I feel content and will hopefully stay this way. I never actually upgraded and now to keep it this way I don't think I will bother migrating just to risk it all over again.
I want to thank everyone for trying to help me figure the problem out, I will most likely create an extensive guide possibly to get a better idea of how to prevent odd occurrences like this for the future to help prevent anyone having this same frustrating issue!!
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that's great to hear, man!
it's a bit of a shame that you got it fixed without actually finding out the cause, but i guess it'll have to do :D
enjoy your precision, sir
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that's great to hear, man!
it's a bit of a shame that you got it fixed without actually finding out the cause, but i guess it'll have to do :D
enjoy your precision, sir
ahahaah thanks man!
I can try to rek scrubs again :)
Fallout 3 still feels like it has some smoothing though idk seems odd
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that's great to hear, man!
it's a bit of a shame that you got it fixed without actually finding out the cause, but i guess it'll have to do :D
enjoy your precision, sir
ahahaah thanks man!
I can try to rek scrubs again :)
Fallout 3 still feels like it has some smoothing though idk seems odd
i haven't played fallout 3, but i remembered mouse movement has been an issue for many, in that game.
you could try these (copy pasted from google):
- you need to find the fallout.ini and falloutprefs.ini and change iPresentInterval=1 to iPresentInterval=0
(this controls v-sync; apparently disabling it in the in-game options does not work, so you'll have to do it in the ini files)
- add the following lines to your fallout.ini under [controls]:
fForegroundMouseAccelBase=0
fForegroundMouseAccelTop=0
fForegroundMouseBase=0
fForegroundMouseMult=0
(this controls mouse acceleration; setting all values to 0 completely disables it)
- "The general recommendation is to set 'Maximum Pre-rendered frames' (Nvidia) or 'Flip Queue' (ATI) from its default of 3 down to a value of 2 or 1. If this doesn't work in reducing lag, then try a value of 0, but remember that lowering this setting can actually reduce your FPS."
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Hi folks,
This is going to sound absolutely unbeliveable ahahah.
As I have had the problem so long I thought what have I got to lose by upgrading to Windows 10, as I was aware that you needed the Windows 10 icon to appear before you can upgrade.
I found out that I needed to update Windows to get it to appear, so I installed like 90 updates booted the PC back on after restart.
And I thought hmmm this seems strange, has my PC suddenly got faster or is it me?
So I loaded steam and thought wow this is much faster, booted up CS:GO and BAM!!!
My precision felt spot on!!
I could aim it felt like there was no hinderance wirth any kind of smoothing etc.
So I hope this isn't premature and I find out it's not fixed at all, but this seriously is the best feeling I've had yet, after these updates I now believe that it must have been some kind of miscommunication between my OS and my hardware.
I also play Dirt Rally with a g27 and noticed that it didn't quite feel right either (yet to test again) so my hunch is that whatever was wrong with my mouse also affected all of my hardware i.e. input devices possibly everything like CPU and RAM.
My PC seems a lot more responsive, either way after nearly 3-4 years I feel content and will hopefully stay this way. I never actually upgraded and now to keep it this way I don't think I will bother migrating just to risk it all over again.
I want to thank everyone for trying to help me figure the problem out, I will most likely create an extensive guide possibly to get a better idea of how to prevent odd occurrences like this for the future to help prevent anyone having this same frustrating issue!!
What OS and Motherboard+CPU were you running before?
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that's great to hear, man!
it's a bit of a shame that you got it fixed without actually finding out the cause, but i guess it'll have to do :D
enjoy your precision, sir
ahahaah thanks man!
I can try to rek scrubs again :)
Fallout 3 still feels like it has some smoothing though idk seems odd
i haven't played fallout 3, but i remembered mouse movement has been an issue for many, in that game.
you could try these (copy pasted from google):
- you need to find the fallout.ini and falloutprefs.ini and change iPresentInterval=1 to iPresentInterval=0
(this controls v-sync; apparently disabling it in the in-game options does not work, so you'll have to do it in the ini files)
- add the following lines to your fallout.ini under [controls]:
fForegroundMouseAccelBase=0
fForegroundMouseAccelTop=0
fForegroundMouseBase=0
fForegroundMouseMult=0
(this controls mouse acceleration; setting all values to 0 completely disables it)
- "The general recommendation is to set 'Maximum Pre-rendered frames' (Nvidia) or 'Flip Queue' (ATI) from its default of 3 down to a value of 2 or 1. If this doesn't work in reducing lag, then try a value of 0, but remember that lowering this setting can actually reduce your FPS."
Ohhh awesome thanks so much man! will try this
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I think your problem is you're reading the OCN forums too much (and drank the guy "r0ach"s koolaid).
To those who don't know, r0ach is a dude who constantly claims Nvidia video drivers affect mouse performance, as well as certain Windows updates. :confused:
I understand what your saying, but I actually agree with roach. I have my own example of when I did an Update a year ago when I first installed 8.1 it changed how the mouse felt completely, he does look deep into it maybe too far but I have noticed that with my strange problem.
... so I installed like 90 updates booted the PC back on after restart.
...
My precision felt spot on!!
...
r0ach was right all along? <triangle>
Great to hear you got this sorted to your satisfaction, man. I know how badly it sucks when your rig is almost right but somethings a little off and it's hard to find what. Just installed CS:GO on my machine recently, used to play LAN sessions with friends with the original WAY back when. Awesome to see so many maps I recognise! :) Gotta practise my reflex aim, though, I get totally pwned if I try an online match.