Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sun, 12 July 2015, 22:48:43
So I decided months ago to design my own board.
This design have gone through more than 10 revisions, as I always had new ideas that I wanted to incorporate into my PCB. I wanted this board to be as flexible (in terms of layout possibilities) as possible. So I spent some time reading many other threads about custom 60% PCBs and added some ideas of mine and reached these specs for the board:
Support for ANSI, ISO, JIS and ABNT2;Split Backspace key;Split Shift keys. The left one is split as on ISO standard, but the right one you can choose to split as on JIS (1×1 - 1×1.75) or as on HHKB (1×1.75 - 1×1);Stepped and non-stepped Caps Lock support;
This was the part of the design that gave me more work. I wanted to give full support to JIS layout, even if no Japanese will ever use this board: I thought that this could still be useful, the extra keys can be configured as extra Fn keys.
That said, that are all bottom row configurations this PCB support:
ANSI 1.25 (standard)ANSI 1.5 (full 1.5 mod, winkeyless or HHKB)ANSI 1.5 variant, with an extra 1×1 key and using a 6× spacebarJIS, with 3 extra keys.
An ANSI 1.5 variation, with 3 1×1.25 JIS keys and an extra 1×1 at the right side of the spacebar, which is 1×2.25;An ANSI 1.25 variation, with all keys but the spacebar and a 1×1 key measuring 1×1.25. The spacebar is 1×2.75.
How much will it cost?
That will depend if I find someone to proxy the PCBs on the US and/or Europe. My target to this initial batch is $30 - $50, but this will be higher if I have to ship them from Brazil. Reason: import taxes.
My idea is to produce an initial batch of
UPDATE: I'm in talk with a fab house that, going everything right, will ship the PCB's directly to the buyer, avoiding the need for reshipping. Let's hope everything goes well.
UPDATE 2: I will finish the revision 5 of the board and set the group buy in some days. The goal will be 25 PCB's, which will bring them to an acceptable cost.
What the hell does means AUNK?
Aunk is a small hamlet in East Devon, England. But for us, AUNK means AWESOME United Nations Keyboard, as this board can be used by any person on this planet in their native keyboard layout. ;)
The project is adjourned. No estimate to when it'll be alive. I thank all the support I got around this project and I'm sad and sorry that it won't come to life as soon as I expected.
[/list]
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 13 July 2015, 10:40:50
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 13 July 2015, 10:52:53
Look very interesting.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 10:59:39
I don't see any metion on the stepped caps lock, is it supported?Nice reminder! Yes, it is supported. I'll edit the OP.
Look very interesting.
Post by: TheMamaMafia on Mon, 13 July 2015, 11:28:25
Btw, will components like the processor, connector etc. already be soldered onto the PCB when you ship them out, or do we have to solder them to the board ourselves?
Post by: superhostile on Mon, 13 July 2015, 11:31:31
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:25:53
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:32:01
Very nice. I'd be interested in seeing how the PCB looks like now that it supports all those layouts & switches :PLooks like swiss cheese. :D
Post by: AKmalamute on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:34:06
Having said that, if after shipping and with controller it could be around $50 I bet I'd be in for one. Still waiting for samwioski to come back and make a run of his 60% MX+Alps board though. I'd probably only get one or the other; too many keyboards and not enough malamutes to type on them.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:40:21
I suspect you'll run afoul of the ALPS + multiple arrangements problems everyone else says happens. You can either support both switches, or multiple layouts, but both at once tends to step on each other and you can't keep discrete wires anymore.Thank you for the comment. And I understand your concern, that's why I said that ALPS is an upcoming feature: it isn't done yet and I may be forced to scrape it if I find the problems you said.
Having said that, if after shipping and with controller it could be around $50 I bet I'd be in for one. Still waiting for samwioski to come back and make a run of his 60% MX+Alps board though. I'd probably only get one or the other; too many keyboards and not enough malamutes to type on them.
Post by: LeandreN on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:41:29
Here is a picture of the VERY EARLY prototype i was very lucky to get my hands on.
Thanks Vinny, i really appericate this.
Post by: davkol on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:42:10
Definitely interested in one for PCB-mounted MX-compatible switches, as long as it's around $50 or less.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:44:28
For the record, will PCB-mounted MX-compatible switches be supported?Yes. :D
Post by: wlhlm on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:48:32
Perfect for you to test your universial plates I guess ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FhTyFvC.jpg)
Here is a picture of the VERY EARLY prototype i was very lucky to get my hands on.
Thanks Vinny, i really appericate this.
Though, it looks like the bottom row is still missing some layout options.
I like the the silhouette of Rio de Janeiro. Nice touch! (but not the biggest fan of the smiley)
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:49:18
Post by: wlhlm on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:49:38
That's awesome. Probably as close as one can get to my pseudo-ergo staggered layout (http://i.imgur.com/1Sz0XrX.png).Interesting! What does the "ISO" key do?
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:51:10
I'll reduce the size of the smiley, it was indeed too big.Perfect for you to test your universial plates I guess ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/FhTyFvC.jpg)
Here is a picture of the VERY EARLY prototype i was very lucky to get my hands on.
Thanks Vinny, i really appericate this.
Though, it looks like the bottom row is still missing some layout options.
I like the the silhouette of Rio de Janeiro. Nice touch! (but not the biggest fan of the smiley)
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:55:52
Will the switches be mounted upside down on the final version?Yes. That's something that the (now defunct?) task force of the rMK60 discussed about. Placing the switches this way seems to better align the LEDs with translucent legend keycaps. It also gives more space on some strategic places, like the neighborhood of the USB connector.
Post by: davkol on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:58:53
It sends scan code 86. I've mapped it to dead keys for accents on my custom keymap; the Neo layout uses it as a modifier for an extra layer;…That's awesome. Probably as close as one can get to my pseudo-ergo staggered layout (http://i.imgur.com/1Sz0XrX.png).Interesting! What does the "ISO" key do?
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 12:59:16
EDIT: My guess was wrong.That's awesome. Probably as close as one can get to my pseudo-ergo staggered layout (http://i.imgur.com/1Sz0XrX.png).Interesting! What does the "ISO" key do?
Post by: Zeal on Mon, 13 July 2015, 13:00:02
Will the switches be mounted upside down on the final version?Yes. That's something that the (now defunct?) task force of the rMK60 discussed about. Placing the switches this way seems to better align the LEDs with translucent legend keycaps. It also gives more space on some strategic places, like the neighborhood of the USB connector.
I know this might sound crazy, but any chance that you can support "standard" and upside down switch placement? As far as I'm aware, a good majority of enthusiasts don't use backlit keycaps and prefer the "underglow" effect of having the LEDs mounted on the bottom.
... Though your PCB will probably look even more like Swiss cheese :p
Post by: doodersbrother on Mon, 13 July 2015, 13:02:08
Will the switches be mounted upside down on the final version?Yes. That's something that the (now defunct?) task force of the rMK60 discussed about. Placing the switches this way seems to better align the LEDs with translucent legend keycaps. It also gives more space on some strategic places, like the neighborhood of the USB connector.
I know this might sound crazy, but any chance that you can support "standard" and upside down switch placement? As far as I'm aware, a good majority of enthusiasts don't use backlit keycaps and prefer the "underglow" effect of having the LEDs mounted on the bottom.
... Though your PCB will probably look even more like Swiss cheese :p
Holy **** haha. The board will have more empty space from the holes than there is actual PCB!
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 13:08:19
I know this might sound crazy, but any chance that you can support "standard" and upside down switch placement? As far as I'm aware, a good majority of enthusiasts don't use backlit keycaps and prefer the "underglow" effect of having the LEDs mounted on the bottom.
... Though your PCB will probably look even more like Swiss cheese :p
I can try just to see if that is feasible. But...
Holy **** haha. The board will have more empty space from the holes than there is actual PCB!
... and fab houses hates that. It could even affect the integrity of the board.
I'll understand if some people dislike one or more features of the board. Unfortunately I can't please everyone. No PCB is perfect, and this one isn't an exception.
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 13 July 2015, 13:17:13
Maybe do what winkeyless does and you could offer a regular version and a R version as far as throughhole positioning goesI know this might sound crazy, but any chance that you can support "standard" and upside down switch placement? As far as I'm aware, a good majority of enthusiasts don't use backlit keycaps and prefer the "underglow" effect of having the LEDs mounted on the bottom.
... Though your PCB will probably look even more like Swiss cheese :p
I can try just to see if that is feasible. But...Holy **** haha. The board will have more empty space from the holes than there is actual PCB!
... and fab houses hates that. It could even affect the integrity of the board.
I'll understand if some people dislike one or more features of the board. Unfortunately I can't please everyone. No PCB is perfect, and this one isn't an exception.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 13:21:27
Maybe do what winkeyless does and you could offer a regular version and a R version as far as throughhole positioning goesThat's interesting. I think I could do that, but the possible GBs would be only one version at a time.
Post by: RoastPotatoes on Mon, 13 July 2015, 13:27:23
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 13:36:03
Btw, will components like the processor, connector etc. already be soldered onto the PCB when you ship them out, or do we have to solder them to the board ourselves?You will have to solder just the switches.
Post by: KRKS on Mon, 13 July 2015, 14:16:34
Mod is for i3wm, and IME is for switching between Japanese and English, so at least one board could be used in as intended(even though I'd use romaji input).
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 13 July 2015, 14:31:31
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 14:47:26
the USB looks like surface mounted, pushing the usb-cable down might break it easily, is this the case?Yes, it is surface mounted. It's the same connector used on the GH60. I can change it for a through hole version.
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 13 July 2015, 14:57:38
the USB looks like surface mounted, pushing the usb-cable down might break it easily, is this the case?Yes, it is surface mounted. It's the same connector used on the GH60. I can change it for a through hole version.
Even from my limited experience, it would be much much much better, especially if the through-hole could be soldered too, it could become a new thing
Otherwise even a small tap to the cable could easily break/dislodge the connector, and they do, with this knowledge, I would never buy a keyboard/pcb with surface mounted usb-connectors second-hand ever again :)
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 18:21:41
Even from my limited experience, it would be much much much better, especially if the through-hole could be soldered too, it could become a new thingChanged the mini USB connector from SMD to through hole. I've found a connector that was almost an instant change: the physical profile is almost identical and just needed to make minor tracing corrections.
Otherwise even a small tap to the cable could easily break/dislodge the connector, and they do, with this knowledge, I would never buy a keyboard/pcb with surface mounted usb-connectors second-hand ever again :)
About the suggestion of making the switches flippable on the board: it can be done, but for that I have to drop LED support.
Post by: norim_13 on Mon, 13 July 2015, 19:15:12
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 13 July 2015, 20:22:43
Will this project only cover 60% keyboards, or do you plan to extend it to other formats?Just 60% for now, as the Poker case is the de facto standard case. Other formats would need custom cases.
Post by: Arvid on Thu, 16 July 2015, 11:00:48
This is my current dream layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@_c=%23b81b24&a:7%3B&=ESC&_c=%23c4c8c5%3B&=1&=2&=3&=4&=5&=6&=7&=8&=9&=0&=%3F%0A+&=%60%0A%C2%B4&=%C2%B0&_c=%23909596%3B&=BSPC%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=TAB&_c=%23c4c8c5%3B&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&_a:5%3B&=%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%C3%85&_a:7%3B&=%5E%0A%C2%A8%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%5E&_x:0.25&c=%230075ad&w:1.25&h:2&w2:1.5&h2:1&x2:-0.25%3B&=ENTER%3B&@_c=%23909596&w:1.75%3B&=CTRL&_c=%23cccccc%3B&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%C3%96%0A%2F%3B%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%C3%96&=%C3%84%0A'&=*%0A'%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A*%3B&@_c=%23909596&w:1.25%3B&=SHIFT&_c=%23cccccc%3B&=%3E%0A%3C&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M&=%2F%3B%0A,&=%2F:%0A.&_a:5%3B&=%2F_%0A-&_c=%23909596&a:7&w:1.75%3B&=SHIFT&=FN%203%3B&@_x:1.5%3B&=SUPER&_w:1.5%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=FN%201&_w:3%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=FN%202&_w:1.5%3B&=ALT&=SUPER) that I was thinking of handwiring but with this pcb being so close I just had to ask:)
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 16 July 2015, 11:12:43
Seeing as some popular keycapsets (Retro, Granite) have included 3" Spacebars would it be possible for this pcb to have those?Very unlikely at this moment, I'm sorry. :-[
This is my current dream layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@_c=%23b81b24&a:7%3B&=ESC&_c=%23c4c8c5%3B&=1&=2&=3&=4&=5&=6&=7&=8&=9&=0&=%3F%0A+&=%60%0A%C2%B4&=%C2%B0&_c=%23909596%3B&=BSPC%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=TAB&_c=%23c4c8c5%3B&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&_a:5%3B&=%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%C3%85&_a:7%3B&=%5E%0A%C2%A8%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%5E&_x:0.25&c=%230075ad&w:1.25&h:2&w2:1.5&h2:1&x2:-0.25%3B&=ENTER%3B&@_c=%23909596&w:1.75%3B&=CTRL&_c=%23cccccc%3B&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%C3%96%0A%2F%3B%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%C3%96&=%C3%84%0A'&=*%0A'%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A*%3B&@_c=%23909596&w:1.25%3B&=SHIFT&_c=%23cccccc%3B&=%3E%0A%3C&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M&=%2F%3B%0A,&=%2F:%0A.&_a:5%3B&=%2F_%0A-&_c=%23909596&a:7&w:1.75%3B&=SHIFT&=FN%203%3B&@_x:1.5%3B&=SUPER&_w:1.5%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=FN%201&_w:3%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=FN%202&_w:1.5%3B&=ALT&=SUPER) that I was thinking of handwiring but with this pcb being so close I just had to ask:)
Post by: Arvid on Thu, 16 July 2015, 11:16:16
Seeing as some popular keycapsets (Retro, Granite) have included 3" Spacebars would it be possible for this pcb to have those?Very unlikely at this moment, I'm sorry. :-[
This is my current dream layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@_c=%23b81b24&a:7%3B&=ESC&_c=%23c4c8c5%3B&=1&=2&=3&=4&=5&=6&=7&=8&=9&=0&=%3F%0A+&=%60%0A%C2%B4&=%C2%B0&_c=%23909596%3B&=BSPC%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=TAB&_c=%23c4c8c5%3B&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U&=I&=O&=P&_a:5%3B&=%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%C3%85&_a:7%3B&=%5E%0A%C2%A8%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%5E&_x:0.25&c=%230075ad&w:1.25&h:2&w2:1.5&h2:1&x2:-0.25%3B&=ENTER%3B&@_c=%23909596&w:1.75%3B&=CTRL&_c=%23cccccc%3B&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J&=K&=L&=%C3%96%0A%2F%3B%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%C3%96&=%C3%84%0A'&=*%0A'%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A*%3B&@_c=%23909596&w:1.25%3B&=SHIFT&_c=%23cccccc%3B&=%3E%0A%3C&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M&=%2F%3B%0A,&=%2F:%0A.&_a:5%3B&=%2F_%0A-&_c=%23909596&a:7&w:1.75%3B&=SHIFT&=FN%203%3B&@_x:1.5%3B&=SUPER&_w:1.5%3B&=ALT&_w:1.5%3B&=FN%201&_w:3%3B&=&_w:1.5%3B&=FN%202&_w:1.5%3B&=ALT&=SUPER) that I was thinking of handwiring but with this pcb being so close I just had to ask:)
Seems like you can order 2.75" 'Granite' space bars from signature plastics so I am still very interested in this:)
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 16 July 2015, 11:40:49
Seems like you can order 2.75" 'Granite' space bars from signature plastics so I am still very interested in this:)2.75u is the measure of the ANSI right Shift key, so it is easy to obtain. 3u isn't used on ANSI or ISO, so you have to custom order it. That's why I didn't included it on the layout, as my goal was to make any layout possible using only standard keycaps.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 16 July 2015, 11:52:12
Post by: Arvid on Thu, 16 July 2015, 13:32:25
Seems like you can order 2.75" 'Granite' space bars from signature plastics so I am still very interested in this:)2.75u is the measure of the ANSI right Shift key, so it is easy to obtain. 3u isn't used on ANSI or ISO, so you have to custom order it. That's why I didn't included it on the layout, as my goal was to make any layout possible using only standard keycaps.
Having that Shift Icon on the space would drive me crazy:p
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 16 July 2015, 13:37:46
Seems like you can order 2.75" 'Granite' space bars from signature plastics so I am still very interested in this:)2.75u is the measure of the ANSI right Shift key, so it is easy to obtain. 3u isn't used on ANSI or ISO, so you have to custom order it. That's why I didn't included it on the layout, as my goal was to make any layout possible using only standard keycaps.
Having that Shift Icon on the space would drive me crazy:p
It would drive me crazy too, but you can easily buy GDE blanks (buying SA/DSA blanks in general is easy)
Post by: AKmalamute on Thu, 16 July 2015, 13:45:30
My JD45's space bar is labelled 'caps lock' -- the tab, right next to it, says 'backspace.'
I suppose for comedic value I should swap them. The space is labelled backspace, hmm?
Post by: Zeal on Thu, 16 July 2015, 14:05:05
Seems like you can order 2.75" 'Granite' space bars from signature plastics so I am still very interested in this:)2.75u is the measure of the ANSI right Shift key, so it is easy to obtain. 3u isn't used on ANSI or ISO, so you have to custom order it. That's why I didn't included it on the layout, as my goal was to make any layout possible using only standard keycaps.
I wanted to give full support to JIS layout
3u spacebar tho :p
(http://www.neotec.co.jp/etc/photo/compg8011802lpaja.jpg)
If you really need it, I'm sitting on about 750 3u Cherry JIS spacebar stabilizer wires.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 16 July 2015, 14:16:42
And that's why I said the bottom row gave me so much work. If 3u spacebars were more common/easily obtained, I would gladly use it. But they are not. PMK doesn't sell blanks of this size on their site, for example.Seems like you can order 2.75" 'Granite' space bars from signature plastics so I am still very interested in this:)2.75u is the measure of the ANSI right Shift key, so it is easy to obtain. 3u isn't used on ANSI or ISO, so you have to custom order it. That's why I didn't included it on the layout, as my goal was to make any layout possible using only standard keycaps.I wanted to give full support to JIS layout
3u spacebar tho :pShow Image(http://www.neotec.co.jp/etc/photo/compg8011802lpaja.jpg)
If you really need it, I'm sitting on about 750 3u Cherry JIS spacebar stabilizer wires.
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 16 July 2015, 15:00:27
I'm guessing the right-bottom row is not supported, but I'm guessing it would be possible by drilling the PCB manually
It would still be nice if it was supported on default tho, I'm sure it's a layout a lot of people would like
Post by: Tiramisuu on Thu, 16 July 2015, 19:37:30
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 16 July 2015, 20:08:22
I may be interested if this fits a poker case. Is this going to be arduino based?It will fit a Poker case, that is a main requisite of this PCB. It will be based on the ATmega32u4, but not on Arduino: I'll use TMK firmware for it.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sun, 19 July 2015, 21:27:41
[attach=1]
And it was good that this is only a prototype, as I've found a mistake on the PCB. It still works, but need a hack to fit Cherry PCB stabilizers on ANSI layout, and that's unacceptable on the final version.
I also found a mistake on the basic TMK firmware I originally wrote, corrected that in 5 minutes. Now I need to learn how to program layers, and the different kinds of Fn activation.
And that Esc key was asking to be used on this board. :))
Post by: TheMamaMafia on Mon, 20 July 2015, 01:37:36
I was waiting for LeandreN's plate to arrive, but it will take a while and I have another 4 PCBs anyway, so I built today the prototype AUNK:Wow, looks *awesome*
(Attachment Link)
And it was good that this is only a prototype, as I've found a mistake on the PCB. It still works, but need a hack to fit Cherry PCB stabilizers on ANSI layout, and that's unacceptable on the final version.
I also found a mistake on the basic TMK firmware I originally wrote, corrected that in 5 minutes. Now I need to learn how to program layers, and the different kinds of Fn activation.
And that Esc key was asking to be used on this board. :))
Hopefully I'll be using one in my custom build soon...
Post by: zhihuichan on Mon, 20 July 2015, 02:45:21
Post by: Nahassa on Mon, 20 July 2015, 07:28:51
I was waiting for LeandreN's plate to arrive, but it will take a while and I have another 4 PCBs anyway, so I built today the prototype AUNK:Wow, looks *awesome*
(Attachment Link)
And it was good that this is only a prototype, as I've found a mistake on the PCB. It still works, but need a hack to fit Cherry PCB stabilizers on ANSI layout, and that's unacceptable on the final version.
I also found a mistake on the basic TMK firmware I originally wrote, corrected that in 5 minutes. Now I need to learn how to program layers, and the different kinds of Fn activation.
And that Esc key was asking to be used on this board. :))
I already have the plate from LeandreN, now currently waiting to see if you will finalize this project before I loose patience and end up hand-wiring the keys.
Either way, very cool project, especially for us ISO users.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 20 July 2015, 07:36:44
Don't lose your patience, go hand-wire your keyboard. This PCB is going to take a while before becoming reality, with all changes I now discovered I have to do.I was waiting for LeandreN's plate to arrive, but it will take a while and I have another 4 PCBs anyway, so I built today the prototype AUNK:Wow, looks *awesome*
(Attachment Link)
And it was good that this is only a prototype, as I've found a mistake on the PCB. It still works, but need a hack to fit Cherry PCB stabilizers on ANSI layout, and that's unacceptable on the final version.
I also found a mistake on the basic TMK firmware I originally wrote, corrected that in 5 minutes. Now I need to learn how to program layers, and the different kinds of Fn activation.
And that Esc key was asking to be used on this board. :))
I already have the plate from LeandreN, now currently waiting to see if you will finalize this project before I loose patience and end up hand-wiring the keys.
Either way, very cool project, especially for us ISO users.
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 20 July 2015, 07:55:24
Might re-build all my 60%'s when this PCB launches, the infinity PCB's make me paranoid, they have such teeny tiny SMD's - they have various quality issues, there are claims of out-of-boundary component usages / failures - worst of all the creators doesn't seem to address or investigate the issues, at least not with dedication (tho, other than some paranoid concerns, they are not that bad :)
Post by: fmendonca on Mon, 20 July 2015, 08:47:05
I really admire your transparency and dedication to perfection
Might re-build all my 60%'s when this PCB launches, the infinity PCB's make me paranoid, they have such teeny tiny SMD's - they have various quality issues, there are claims of out-of-boundary component usages / failures - worst of all the creators doesn't seem to address or investigate the issues, at least not with dedication (tho, other than some paranoid concerns, they are not that bad :)
They said that they were going to use better QA on the current Infinity drop at MD. For that reason and the fact that there was enough communication from Massdrop regarding the diode issues, I don't agree with you. It's too soon to tell if the current drop will have problems but it seems that they are somewhat commited to avoid them this time around.
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 20 July 2015, 09:02:08
I really admire your transparency and dedication to perfection
Might re-build all my 60%'s when this PCB launches, the infinity PCB's make me paranoid, they have such teeny tiny SMD's - they have various quality issues, there are claims of out-of-boundary component usages / failures - worst of all the creators doesn't seem to address or investigate the issues, at least not with dedication (tho, other than some paranoid concerns, they are not that bad :)
They said that they were going to use better QA on the current Infinity drop at MD. For that reason and the fact that there was enough communication from Massdrop regarding the diode issues, I don't agree with you. It's too soon to tell if the current drop will have problems but it seems that they are somewhat commited to avoid them this time around.
Diode issues are not much of an issue as far as I'm concerned, they might as well be mechanical (damaged during transit etc.), all my 6 infinities have decent diodes, bought one of them second hand, it had a broken diode because of the pre-1.2 rev placement issues
But the resistors/capacitors are more concerning, if you read childofthehorn's analysis, s/he claims the power input should have been better designed to prevent issues and 2 capacitors of the microcontroller circuit are used out of their boundaries - his/her infinity was bricked during normal usage
Post by: 3K on Mon, 20 July 2015, 09:03:27
The only thing I'd change is the design - the awesome face isn't original content I guess...
But still, depending on price, I'd be in for a beta test!
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 20 July 2015, 09:45:56
This PCB seems really a great idea, giving so many options to customize! The mini spacebar is super cute!Yeah, people here seems to not like the Awesome face so much. It will still be there, but in much smaller size. And if you look closely, you will see that I combined the Awesome face with the UN logo, so that counts as derivative work. :P
The only thing I'd change is the design - the awesome face isn't original content I guess...
But still, depending on price, I'd be in for a beta test!
Post by: flabbergast on Mon, 20 July 2015, 15:19:51
So of course I'm interested in trying it out ;)
EDIT: One thing you might want to be careful about is the "no components" places on the bottom side, where the "ribs"/standoffs of various cases touch the PCB. For instance I cannot use one of the chinese PCBs that I have (rs60) with an aluminium case that I have, because the alu case has slightly thicker "ribs" than the poker plastic case, so they touch one of diodes, which in turn screws up detecting keypresses (some keys fire the whole column).
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 20 July 2015, 15:35:35
The flexibility of this PCB seems to be truly amazing! :thumb:Not only that, but also I'm taking care to not place vias too close to those standoffs.
So of course I'm interested in trying it out ;)
EDIT: One thing you might want to be careful about is the "no components" places on the bottom side, where the "ribs"/standoffs of various cases touch the PCB. For instance I cannot use one of the chinese PCBs that I have (rs60) with an aluminium case that I have, because the alu case has slightly thicker "ribs" than the poker plastic case, so they touch one of diodes, which in turn screws up detecting keypresses (some keys fire the whole column).
Post by: flabbergast on Mon, 20 July 2015, 15:44:28
Not only that, but also I'm taking care to not place vias too close to those standoffs.Cool! I guess you've got much more experience with these things as me, so please keep up the great work! :thumb:
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 21 July 2015, 02:17:16
The flexibility of this PCB seems to be truly amazing! :thumb:Not only that, but also I'm taking care to not place vias too close to those standoffs.
So of course I'm interested in trying it out ;)
EDIT: One thing you might want to be careful about is the "no components" places on the bottom side, where the "ribs"/standoffs of various cases touch the PCB. For instance I cannot use one of the chinese PCBs that I have (rs60) with an aluminium case that I have, because the alu case has slightly thicker "ribs" than the poker plastic case, so they touch one of diodes, which in turn screws up detecting keypresses (some keys fire the whole column).
As a small feedback, just in case, the tex and vortex are probably the leading 60% case manufacturers and some of the vortex's cases seem to have more standoffs, the slim cnc aluminium ones
So it might be a good idea to check that case too if you haven't done that already, but I have a hunch you did
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 21 July 2015, 16:30:53
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Tue, 21 July 2015, 16:49:14
I would like to see a split space bar as an option ...As I said before, I can't please everyone.
Post by: faxe on Wed, 22 July 2015, 03:20:50
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 30 July 2015, 14:30:00
I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something
I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 30 July 2015, 14:51:12
Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)I'll see what I can do.
I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something
I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 30 July 2015, 15:48:23
Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)Dedicated cursor arrow keys on a 60% keyboard? Ain't nobody got time fo dat.
I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something
I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%
Seriously, though, learn to love the HHKB arrows.
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 30 July 2015, 16:31:39
Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)Dedicated cursor arrow keys on a 60% keyboard? Ain't nobody got time fo dat.
I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something
I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%
Seriously, though, learn to love the HHKB arrows.
Arrows are the most used keys for me, it would be stupid for me to put them under a modifier, some people don't seem to use them much, in that case it makes some sense
It's either 60% with arrows or a TKL for me, I would rather have the 60% with arrows (and I do, and I love it)
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sun, 09 August 2015, 16:51:47
That means that I will never support LED's? No, it means I will not support them for now.
Right now I'm in process of debugging the TK78-R, so I'm not really working on the AUNK, but it seems that ALPS switches support can be done without much hassle. I will probably need to redo a few traces, but that's ok.
I'm in contact with a fab house that have built-in group buy support on their site. For a ~$50 board they require about 20 PCB's, so I think it is doable. Let me know if you guys are interested on a GB right now.
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 09 August 2015, 17:10:25
Post by: KHAANNN on Sun, 09 August 2015, 17:36:32
Status update: I have withdrawn LED support from the AUNK. As a matter of fact, there are many other PCB's out there with a better support for them.
That means that I will never support LED's? No, it means I will not support them for now.
Right now I'm in process of debugging the TK78-R, so I'm not really working on the AUNK, but it seems that ALPS switches support can be done without much hassle. I will probably need to redo a few traces, but that's ok.
I'm in contact with a fab house that have built-in group buy support on their site. For a ~$50 board they require about 20 PCB's, so I think it is doable. Let me know if you guys are interested on a GB right now.
Dropping led support is a good move IMO, leds cause a lot of issues for little to no gain, I'm guessing they cater more to the US market where people enjoy flashy lights more than usual (I see a lot of keyboards with leds and regular keycaps, leds pulling ~0.5A just for aesthetics, such a waste, such a strain on the host device)
I will join if this layout is supported: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (ignore the colors) - as far as I see, only the bottom row needs to be modified/improved
I've been using this layout for some time now, it's the layout that I settled with, IMO, it's the optimal layout for those who need the dedicated arrows and like to use a minimal 60% keyboard
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sun, 09 August 2015, 18:20:13
Does that mean there are no LEDs on the AUNK? Not even a caps lock indicator LED?A single LED for Caps Lock is doable, a full keyboard lighting isn't, at least for now. I need to do more tests to improve brightness without frying USB ports on the process. :-[
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 09 August 2015, 19:05:27
Does that mean there are no LEDs on the AUNK? Not even a caps lock indicator LED?A single LED for Caps Lock is doable, a full keyboard lighting isn't, at least for now. I need to do more tests to improve brightness without frying USB ports on the process. :-[
That's fine with me :thumb:
Will likely be in for at least one unless the CAD takes another huge dive.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sun, 09 August 2015, 19:10:32
Will likely be in for at least one unless the CAD takes another huge dive.I fully understand you, Brazilian Real is falling down for months, and we also have a political crisis together with the economical one. :(
Post by: a-c on Sun, 09 August 2015, 19:22:25
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Wed, 12 August 2015, 09:39:07
The campaign will be run directly by CircuitHub. The idea is similar to Massdrop: you go to the campaign's site and purchase a PCB. If the minimum quantity is reached, the PCB's are manufactured and delivered to you by CircuitHub.
I will set the goal to 25 PCB's, less than that and it will be too expensive (I'm thinking about shipping costs added to the PCB fabrication & assembly). And remember: you will receive only the PCB and you will have to flash tmk firmware on it. I'll make available an standard basic firmware, but anything more elaborated must be done by the buyer.
Post by: Arvid on Mon, 17 August 2015, 01:00:14
Post by: AKmalamute on Fri, 21 August 2015, 11:59:40
I will set the goal to 25 PCB's
Do they do price tiers, like Massdrop? 25 sounds like a good base floor number, but I think we could hit 50, too. 35 for sure.
Do you have to pay anything to try? You could put it up at 50, and if that fails you can take it down and re-offer it at 30's price ...
So, like mass drop I'll need an account on their site?
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Fri, 21 August 2015, 12:12:59
I will set the goal to 25 PCB's
Do they do price tiers, like Massdrop? 25 sounds like a good base floor number, but I think we could hit 50, too. 35 for sure.
I asked that last week. No, they can't do price tiers. But they are developing an alternative where they don't need to set a goal and the prices goes down automatically with a higher number of buyers. It isn't ready yet and they have no estimate to finish it.
Do you have to pay anything to try? You could put it up at 50, and if that fails you can take it down and re-offer it at 30's price ...
No, I don't pay anything. I just design the board and let it be sold. They run the GB entirely on their side. But the boards are only made if the goal is reached/exceeded.
So, like mass drop I'll need an account on their site?
I really don't know that for buyers.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Tue, 01 September 2015, 12:47:11
(http://img.ly/system/uploads/009/172/225/original_2015-08-29%2023.21.30.jpg)
Leftmost board is the first one, that I had already built with Gateron Blue switches. The other 3 uses Gateron Black switches. The 2 leftmost keyboards uses original plastic Poker cases that I bought from members of GH, the 2 rightmost uses Chinese generic cases bought at Tao-Bao (through a proxy).
Keycaps, from left to right:
- Tai-Hao ABS doubleshot (bought at Massdrop), Awesome face cap bought at KeyPop;
- original Cherry G80-3000 keycaps with GMK Triumph Adler spacebar (the original one had a strange stem location);
- Tai-Hao PBT doubleshot (bought from a member of GH);
- Ivan's GMK Dolch with EliteKeyboards Cherry Red Esc (doubleshot) and GMK Triumph Adler Caps Lock keycap. My Dolch set was one of the leftovers, so I don't have many caps; for instance, the non-stepped Caps Lock and the 2.25u Shift. Numpad 0 is doing the honors as the left shift while the new shift is coming from EliteKeyboards (yellow cap with black legends; I'd like a cap with white legends, but can't find them for sale).
Only the Dolch board uses a plate, the ANSI one. I'm saving the ISO plate for my final AUNK 3.1 PCB, just need the right caps.
Now I need to solve some problems, as only boards 1 and 3 are working properly. The rightmost key column of the Dolch board isn't working and the Cherry board isn't even recognized by the computer, so I couldn't flash it.
PS: Yes, that's a Logitech G510 keyboard with a (now disgusting) protection plastic cover. I still need those macro keys for gaming. But that's my gaming rig, I have another desktop and 2 laptops to use mechanical keyboards...
Post by: StormyMonday on Wed, 09 September 2015, 12:01:07
Is it possible for the PCB to support this layout?: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/86b3cd92a54335cd46b00b90f9e0201a (It can also be used with the left Ctrl removed for a more appealing keyboard bottom row)Dedicated cursor arrow keys on a 60% keyboard? Ain't nobody got time fo dat.
I normally drill the PCB's to add the non-standard keycaps, but It seems tooo cancerous to do so, so I will probably try to convince PCB developers to support the layout from now on, or design a PCB myself to be developed at a small scale with MacroFab or something
I think the layout should gain a lot of traction in the future, as it uses standard keycaps to add arrows to an 60%
Seriously, though, learn to love the HHKB arrows.
Arrows are the most used keys for me, it would be stupid for me to put them under a modifier, some people don't seem to use them much, in that case it makes some sense
It's either 60% with arrows or a TKL for me, I would rather have the 60% with arrows (and I do, and I love it)
Arrow keys and no pesky Caps Lock. Combine that with Alps support and I'll be a 60% convert!!! :cool:
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Wed, 09 September 2015, 12:16:10
Arrow keys and no pesky Caps Lock. Combine that with Alps support and I'll be a 60% convert!!! :cool:
You may want to check the OP about ALPS support. You probably won't like it. :(
Post by: StormyMonday on Wed, 09 September 2015, 12:51:00
Arrow keys and no pesky Caps Lock. Combine that with Alps support and I'll be a 60% convert!!! :cool:
You may want to check the OP about ALPS support. You probably won't like it. :(
I know, I know, you can't please everyone.
At least I can dream ...
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sat, 03 October 2015, 14:57:27
Post by: neverused on Sat, 07 November 2015, 10:49:48
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:47:02
Are there any of these available or will there be a group buy coming?There are 6 PCB's of revision 3.1, an early prototype run to validate my design. The revision 5.1, with all changes I needed to do and all proposed features, is finally completed. Problem is that I don't have the money right now to prototype it and I won't start a GB without this step.
IF the people interested on the board say that it is acceptable to take the risk of a GB without a prototype being made, I can run the GB through CircuitHub in a few days time.
Post by: neverused on Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:51:54
Post by: AKmalamute on Sun, 08 November 2015, 13:30:50
Come January, I'll go back to normal purchasing habits again.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 09:48:16
Post by: davkol on Mon, 09 November 2015, 09:54:04
Post by: ideus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 10:03:10
It's in the OP and even name of the project: support for layouts, that are impossible with the other PCBs.
By reading it, there is nothing, but the support for JIS layouts that I do not need, that makes me think it would be worth a try instead of a Nerd60 GON, for example. But it is a feedback intended for the OP author, he/she can just ignore it.
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Mon, 09 November 2015, 10:13:03
You could explain better the advantages of your offering over alternative PCBs; mainly, if its final price ends being at 50 or over, that means that it should be very well differentiated from the B-Face, Sprit's or even GON's that are well established, with proven quality and that have prices around fifty US dollars.If what you want is a "well established, with proven quality" PCB, then you better buy a B-Face, Sprit or GON PCB. And AFAIK, their prices are for the PCB alone, SMD component soldering costs extra.
Also, this is not a commercial selling. This is a group buy, and you should know that with smaller scale comes higher prices. That's true for keycaps and PCB's as well.
For example: the quote CircuitHub gave me says that if 100 PCB's are ordered (remember: all of them with already soldered SMD components), each one would go for about $40 (+ shipping). At 600 MOQ each pre-assembled board costs $20 (+ shipping). I guess you get the idea.
I could order bare PCB's, with a 50 MOQ they would probably costs between $10 to $15 each, maybe even less. Problem is that many of the components I used on this design are not hand-solderable: they are too tiny (0201 SMD footprint). That was necessary to allow all the features I wanted this board to have, as space was a limited resource, in special on the bottom row.
But, as it should be always said on group buys: nobody is forcing you to participate. If you don't believe on what is being offered, that's up to you and it is OK. Just make the right comparisons: as yourself made clear, there are PCB's out there with more features and proven by time. This is my first venture designing a PCB for a wider audience, all my other PCB's (keyboards or else) were made for my personal use. It's unfair to compare what I'm doing with GON or Sprit.
All that said, the main differential I believe my board offers is a big variety of bottom row options. For those persons who like to add as much custom layers as possible, or for people who lives in countries where those extra keys can be useful (Japan comes to mind), this PCB can provide them a platform they can use.
Post by: davkol on Mon, 09 November 2015, 10:25:07
…and there are people, who would like to get a keyboard with JIS layout or whatever resembles a split spacebarIt's in the OP and even name of the project: support for layouts, that are impossible with the other PCBs.By reading it, there is nothing, but the support for JIS layouts that I do not need, that makes me think it would be worth a try instead of a Nerd60 GON, for example. But it is a feedback intended for the OP author, he/she can just ignore it.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 14:05:39
One nice characteristic of GH is that we have people able to take and provide constructive criticism. It is always good to have more alternatives available for the kind of keyboard we would like to have; therefore, this idea is a very welcome one, the intention of the comment was to encourage the OP to be as explicit as possible on the advantages of the design in order to pull as many interested parties as possible. Truth be told, I do not see advantages in a split space bar; but, I am sure others may, that was something I did not consider when I wrote my fist post in this thread, so, you may have a point there.
Post by: Frigid on Mon, 09 November 2015, 19:53:18
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Fri, 13 November 2015, 06:46:51