geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 03 October 2009, 10:19:29

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 03 October 2009, 10:19:29

Some very nice mechanical keyboard love from the mainstream press! Maybe the function/media keys will help win over the Logitech/Razer crowd too.

http://www.wired.com/reviews/product/pr_das_keyboard

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 03 October 2009, 11:10:10

Quote from: Techno Trousers;122553

Some very nice mechanical keyboard love from the mainstream press!

Although the statement "IBM and Lexmark have long since abandoned the Model M" must be causing sad faces over at Unicomp.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 03 October 2009, 13:10:23

Quote from: quadibloc;122562

Although the statement "IBM and Lexmark have long since abandoned the Model M" must be causing sad faces over at Unicomp.

Well, at least they did mention Unicomp at the end of the review.

Quote from: webwit

5. Cherry Blue switches, aimed at beginners who are impressed by clicky sounds or non-beginning douchebags who want to impress people by pressing small leafs of metal while typing. It is a b-switch.

Hey now, I happen to love my Filco 104 tactile click. We're all here for the love of mechanical switches, whatever flavor we prefer, right?

As for the controller issues, perhaps they've addressed that. They would have had to do some reprogramming to support the media functions on the F-keys. I'm going to reserve judgment until someone here gets one and really puts it through the ringer.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:08:15

Quote from: ripster;122576

Got around to reading Webwit's post:

Show Image

(http://images4.cafepress.com/product/152229244v10_350x350_Front.jpg)

How did you get a picture of webwit's bag?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:13:35

Quote from: webwit;122558

Bernays would have been proud

i agree. beautiful marketing! :D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:36:38

Quote from: webwit;122558

All in all a marketing trick aimed at uninformed people who like to show off how sophisticated they are by buying overpriced crap.

You could easily make similar cheap shots at the Datahand. Even more overpriced, fugly as hell, twice the size it needs to be, has its own inconsistent quirks. At least you can't accuse them of marketing tricks. Or any kind of marketing come to that.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:48:42

Quote from: Rajagra;122619

You could easily make similar cheap shots at the Datahand. Even more overpriced, fugly as hell, twice the size it needs to be, has its own inconsistent quirks. At least you can't accuse them of marketing tricks. Or any kind of marketing come to that.

you could, but then you'd become webwit's personal stalking target (on the board and maybe outside) for several months. You want to go thru that? Or expend the kind of time and energy he's willing to expend when he gets obsessed about an 'enemy' on the forum? Or match his crass guttter-personal attacks and match his disruptive thread-hijackings on the forum?

if you can or want to match him on those things, then yes,  you could easily make the same argument about the fugly overpriced datahand...

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: shortround on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:49:44

Webwit, although many of your points are very valid, you seem to have anger issues with this keyboard, did somebody swing a das at your newborn puppies or something?  Although my das III sits in my closet now, (and has  a few faults) it was a good keyboard for me.  Remember, not everybody is into ultra-progressive hand-shaped keyboards, and most people aren't going to be as keyboard savvy as you.  After all, why drive a with weird tiptronic transmission when you can have a six speed manual?  Not that a das III is a six speed, but it's all personal preference.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 14:53:31

Quote from: shortround;122624

It's all personal preference.

lol, dont say that - nothing drives him into a rage (and i'm not being euphemistic) faster than that (fairly obvious and fairly diplomatic) statement.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 15:25:11

:behindsofa:

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: o2dazone on Sat, 03 October 2009, 15:28:40

Every time I see a thread where people are nerd raging about webwit, it makes me realize how those people couldnt spot a troll if it kicked them in the ass

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 15:30:23

trolls (and their thread hijackings) are one thing, intense and prolonged personal attacks are something else.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: d4rkst4r on Sat, 03 October 2009, 15:30:38

After discovering Filcos, I wouldn't touch a DAS. I doubt it could exceed the build quality of a Filco. I also wouldn't purchase any other keyboard with a glossy black finish. Cherry blue switches are just matter of preference. They're down my list of favorites just above cherry black switches.

Webwit seems to have disdain for both Das and the switches for good reason, but I do detect a bit of additional hostility.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 03 October 2009, 16:11:59

I am typing on a cherry brown filco. What vitriol do you have for me? : )

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 16:26:14

Quote from: webwit;122664

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmYGpxuYpJQ

:O webwit is secretly french!!

XD

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 03 October 2009, 16:28:50

Quote from: webwit;122654

a Cherry switch is like a metal rubber dome. ... it will never be a true SWITCH, just a poor simulation.

Webwit just lost his grip on reality. We finally pushed him over the edge. Well done everyone! :peace:

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 03 October 2009, 16:31:31

Quote from: webwit;122664

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmYGpxuYpJQ

nice. I think webwit is mellowing  a bit.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 16:32:58

Quote from: webwit;122654

[...] irrelevant fud from amateur trolls :)

the BS seems to be a simulation and cost-cutting effort of the buckling leaf

trolling should be left to the professionals ;)

btw, does anyone have pics of all the components of a buckling leaf switch?

if we're ever going to reproduce that technology, we need to understand the materials and construction :)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: d4rkst4r on Sat, 03 October 2009, 16:37:30

Quote from: webwit;122654

People call me a troll, but cannot point out a single point where I am wrong. The rest is irrelevant fud from amateur trolls :)

Troll, no. It sounds to me like you have a purist point of view.

The Cherry switch does fulfill the definition of a switch - its activation closes a circuit. I've experienced some of your complaints on my Deck. I described the action as "frictiony". We can all find issues with any key switch technology and we all have our favorites for different reasons.

What led me to GeekHack was my search for a great keyboard I used to have which was probably an original white alps board. I loved the feel of the keys, but I didn't like the layout and it had an AT interface and left it with a friend when I moved. It's long gone, and I've searched ebay for a similar board with no luck. (I have an AEKII on the way, so there is  hope)

My point is that the criteria for the ultimate keyboard is purely subjective and can include key feel, tactility, layout, looks, durability, interface, features, controller. The ideal switch technology is kind of a moot point for most of us. If everything else is there, or close to it, then we have found our ideal board. If the keyswitches have a high failure rate, or if they have an inferior activation feel, then they're not good enough regardless of the switch technology.

That said, the ultimate switch technology is probably cost prohibitive and holding out for such may be a hopeless endeavour.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Sat, 03 October 2009, 16:47:49

I like my capacitive buckling spring, thank you very much.

That said, personally I can't stand any ALPS switches, with the exception of the damped sliders of the AEKII. I find them to have a tactile "cliff" that I always fall over the edge.

So yes, each of us has our own favorite type of switch, and least favorite.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 17:08:31

Quote from: webwit;122685

People who complain that people should be allowed to have personal opinions on keyboards in response to someone who dared to have an opinion about a keyboard.......

the ability to discern and reject self-inconsistencies is a key ingredient of good taste :)

but people don't like to hear that applied to themselves! :p

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 17:34:28

Quote from: msiegel;122693

the ability to discern and reject self-inconsistencies is a key ingredient of good taste :)

but people don't like to hear that applied to themselves! :p

Are people here complaining merely against webwit's right to have a personal opinion about a keyboard?

I could have sworn he does a few other things on a pretty regular basis.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:02:04

Quote from: wellington1869;122697

Are people here complaining merely against webwit's right to have a personal opinion about a keyboard?

not me! :)

i just prefer hearing positivity directed toward people, 'cuz cynicism gets me down :D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: d4rkst4r on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:07:50

Quote from: msiegel;122701

not me! :)

i just prefer hearing positivity directed toward people, 'cuz cynicism gets me down :D

Polyannas make me want to vomit. Don't be a polyanna. I want to hear a critical viewpoint. It doesn't get me down. I tend to learn something once in a while.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:17:53

you'd like to hear a prolonged, hyper-critical view of yourself?

suit yourself, but that sounds masochistic to me ;)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:19:24

Quote from: d4rkst4r;122702

Polyannas make me want to vomit. Don't be a polyanna. I want to hear a critical viewpoint. It doesn't get me down. I tend to learn something once in a while.

you must be new here : )
you should check out some of the other fine posts by webwit.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:24:44

Quote from: webwit;122654

It is not that the BS is the final answer to all, as the BS seems to be a simulation and cost-cutting effort of the buckling leaf, which for starters consists of more elements and assembly.

That is not a personal opinion, that is a fact.

Back when computers cost millions of dollars, the fact that a computer terminal might cost about $5,000 - an ASR 33 Teletype cost $1,500 IIRC, and those were noisy and anything but cute - was accepted as part of the cost of computing. So it would have been pointless to try to cut costs by skimping on the keyboard. Instead, money was spent on researching the ideal tactile response for a keyboard to have to make the people working on computers more productive.

Even the 3278 keyboard, which was explored here recently in loving detail, was likely economized upon in comparison to the keyboards of IBM's earlier video terminals.

Incidentally, some people have said that the Model F has a better touch than the Model M. That may be, but it's subtle. The real reason for capacitative keyboards is that multiple capacitors in series have a lower capacitance - so the signal from "ghost keys" is weaker. They may not have true N-key rollover, but they come close.

The buckling spring keyboard causes contacts on plastic sheets to touch, just like a rubber dome keyboard, but with moving parts in an integral assembly. So one isn't assembling individual keyswitches first, and then building a keyboard out of them, in the traditional fashion. So costs are cut, provided one has mass production.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:26:02

Quote from: msiegel;122703

you'd like to hear a prolonged, hyper-critical view of yourself?

No, but I'd like to hear the bad points of the keyboards I should avoid, before I waste money on something I won't like.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:30:59

Quote from: quadibloc;122708

No, but I'd like to hear the bad points of the keyboards I should avoid, before I waste money on something I won't like.

well heck yeah :)

i was only objecting to cynical views of members, not of keyboards!

there are plenty of crappy keyboards out there... or ones with hidden gotchas (one of which i happen to own, but i'm satisfied with it and ymmv)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 18:51:21

GD it! Once again I seem to have missed out on most of the personal attack postings flying back and forth.

WTF does everyone get so worked up?  Is what webwit posts more relevant than what anyone else posts?  Or is it just the way he words his posts?

Technically, I have to agree with most of webwit's points with one exception:
This stupid American redneck douchebag loves his Filco FKBN104MC/EB keyboards with Blue Cherry key switches because they are FUN, FUN, FUN!  So much fun I had to get two.  

I still prefer the HHKB Pro 2 or Realforce 87U for prolonged typing.  It's just that the Topre key switchs are so quiet.  Most modern keyboards are toys compared to my 84-key PC AT keyboards, but aren't toys supposed to be fun?

When I do get an avatar, I will take a page from the Ripster and change my signature to: "The Dumb American" or maybe the "The Dumb and Ugly Redneck American Troll"  :)   I'm not speaking about Americans in general, just me.    ;)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 19:12:25

Quote from: quadibloc;122707

Incidentally, some people have said that the Model F has a better touch than the Model M. That may be, but it's subtle.

I would love to find a Model M that felt anything like a Model F. Having used a Unicomp and Model F side by side for quite a while, they are quite different to eachother. Maybe the earlier Model Ms felt like Model Fs, but I have never used one that wasn't in a horribly worn out condition.

Either way, the difference between the Unicomp and the Model F was sufficient to make me think "Wow..." when I pressed a key on the Model F for the first time.

Quote

The real reason for capacitative keyboards is that multiple capacitors in series have a lower capacitance - so the signal from "ghost keys" is weaker. They may not have true N-key rollover, but they come close.

It's widely acknowledged that the capacitors are not the reason why the Model F feels different to the Model M... And as for NKRO, I once mashed down pretty much every key that I could possibly cover with the palms of my hands (I had about 30+ keys registered) If that isn't NKRO, what the deuce is? =P

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 19:14:57

Quote from: quadibloc;122707

That is not a personal opinion, that is a fact.

Incidentally, some people have said that the Model F has a better touch than the Model M. That may be, but it's subtle.

Sorry, but the Dumb American Redneck Troll is compelled to respectfully disagree with the above statement.  

I do not believe different typing experience between the IBM Model F keyboards (83 and 84 key) vs. the Model M keyboards can be described as subtle.  Buckling spring over capacitive contacts vs. buckling spring over membrane does not result in the same effect...not even close.

I have several Model Fs and over a dozen Model Ms in my collection.  My worst 84-key PC AT Model F keyboard knocks the socks off of my best Model M (a 1390120 from Jan 1986).  Side by side typing makes the Model M feel heavy and dull in comparison to the Model F.

Fact or opinion?  Maybe our favourite European troll can weigh in.   ;)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 19:17:01

Quote from: webwit;122718

I criticized a product, a company and the consumers of the product, with points which no one managed to counter. Oh and red necks just to make sure most of you were included :p (makes mental note of effect)

one day, webwit, we'll find a worthy opponent for you
XD

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 19:25:34

Quote from: webwit;122718

I did not attack or insult anyone personally ;) I grouped you neatly together. I criticized a product, a company and the consumers of the product, with points which no one managed to counter. Oh and red necks just to make sure most of you were included :p (makes mental note of effect)

I do not necessarily disagree with you, my cohort.

Maybe some were insulted by the redneck reference but it my case, it just happens to be true  ;)  I wear the label as a badge of honour.  Anyway, I thought the redneck reference was thrown in because Metadot is based in Texas and everyone knows that Texas has a disproportionate share of proud rednecks.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 19:40:18

Quote from: webwit;122719

P.S. You may refer to me as cheese head if it makes you feel better (what the Belgiums call us - they are to the Dutch what Canadians are to you)

Thanks very much for the nice suggestion but we already have an American term for you which makes us feel better   ;)

BTW, we Americans (including the rednecks) love our fellow North American Canucks.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 19:45:02

Quote from: maxlugar;122725

I do not believe different typing experience between the IBM Model F keyboards (83 and 84 key) vs. the Model M keyboards can be described as subtle.  Buckling spring over capacitive contacts vs. buckling spring over membrane does not result in the same effect...not even close.

I have several Model Fs and over a dozen Model Ms in my collection.  My worst 84-key PC AT Model F keyboard knocks the socks off of my best Model M (a 1390120 from Jan 1986).  Side by side typing makes the Model M feel heavy and dull in comparison to the Model F.

i couldn't agree more. when i first received my model m mini, i was surprised and disappointed in the feel -- i was expecting the same feel as the 83-key xt model f, the only ibm board i had used before!  by comparison the mini seemed much too stiff, and not nearly snappy enough.

it would be nice to know what accounts for so much difference. this is only a guess, but maybe the model m's rubber sheet and the different hammer designs play significant parts.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 19:52:26

Quote from: msiegel;122735

it would be nice to know what accounts for so much difference. this is only a guess, but maybe the model m's rubber sheet and the different hammer designs play significant parts.

This has been the subject of much debate and there are several geekhack threads that deal with this question.  The results of experiments by ripster, Ch_123 and others would suggest the more tightly wound springs on the Model Fs (more coils per inch) account for most of the difference, although I don't believe there is concensus yet.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 20:12:17

Someone suggested that perhaps the membrane needed to be struck more forcefully than the capacitive plates did, which may suggest why the mechanism was changed around. As far as I can see, the spring is the only thing that can account for the difference between the two designs, and that theory is the one which explains why IBM would make the mechanism feel of lower quality when there was no apparent advantage in terms of things like cost reduction.

And whatever Ripster may say, it's nothing to do with those godforsaken hammers...

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 03 October 2009, 20:16:24

Quote from: ch_123;122724

I would love to find a Model M that felt anything like a Model F.

Quote from: maxlugar;122725

I do not believe different typing experience between the IBM Model F keyboards (83 and 84 key) vs. the Model M keyboards can be described as subtle.

Obviously, then, I'm mistaken. I had typed on the original IBM PC's keyboard, and then much later I used the model M, and not having noticed anything, I failed to consider the possibility that it isn't really valid to compare how keyboards feel merely based on memory over that long a period of time.

EDIT: And, as it happened, I did not even need to rely on memory. I have two IBM 122-key keyboards. One uses the Model M style of key, the other, from a 3270 PC, uses "Model F technology", as I recently read. Having it handy for photographs, I tried to type on it. Indeed, the feel of the keys is much lighter than that of a Model M.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 03 October 2009, 20:35:02

Quote from: msiegel;122726

one day, webwit, we'll find a worthy opponent for you
XD

xD we did but he went off keyboards and discovered typewriters ;)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Sat, 03 October 2009, 21:21:40

Wait...what's this thread about, again?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 21:25:03

Quote from: webwit;122737

I agree. The Model F is much better, and the best spring keyboard in existence (only counting key feel, not layout, form factor, etc.). Sandy agrees I think, and I'm a pure amateur compared to him. Never get a buckling leaf keyboard, makes you feel the same about the model F as you do now about the M (a great board if you aren't spoiled).

Agreed.  You do have some redeeming qualities webwit...rather, you do have ONE redeeming quality webwit.  :)  The 84-key PC AT Model F is one of the most sought after keyboards by the Japanese and Korean collectors.  We are all mere "grasshoppers"  next to Master Po Sandy. (reference to the American TV series Kung Fu, starring your personal hero, David Carradine, infamous for extracurricular "hobbies" which you are also guilty of partaking)

The 84-key form factor and layout are indeed archaic.  But there are moments when I almost agree with Sandy's description of the AT's key presses as "euphoric".  I have couple that are in almost NIB condition ( i.e. plastic film still on the silver IBM badge ) and I find them rather attractive for 25 year old keyboards.  I mean next to the very ugly (but sturdy) Northgate Omnikey 102, the 84-key PC AT keyboard is downright sexy. Next to the HHKB Pro 2, not so much.  


BTW, since you agree the Model F is superior to the Model M, how about selling off one or two of your industrial green Model Ms? (preferably at least one with a trackpoint).  I need a couple of those in good condition to add to my Model M collection.  I don't trust the "refurbs" I've seen lately on ebay.
(But I trust you webwit)   :)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 21:27:16

Quote from: timw4mail;122749

Wait...what's this thread about, again?

Naughty hobbies shared by webwit and David Carradine.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 23:22:54

Quote from: ripster;122765

The Model F sounds great if you like nice switches in a archaic form factor and layout.

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3071&stc=1&d=1247095102)

But I'm open minded.  Somebody tell me when a NIB one comes along.

Ah, but one press of those exquisite keys and form factor and layout are all but forgotten.

Join us young Luke...there's no going back.

You will have to pry a NIB 84-key PC AT keyboard (if any still exist) from my cold dead fingers.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 03 October 2009, 23:27:45

*mechanical breathing sounds*


oh! uhh.... hey! come on guys, we have to think up some brave and insane model f mods, to bring this classic up to date :)

edit: i created a model f group for us to join, so we can gang up on all the cost engineered buckling-springers ;)
http://geekhack.org/group.php?groupid=5

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 03 October 2009, 23:44:10

Having looked at my 122-key Model F, I found that two of its keys had problems; the Caps Lock key, when pressed, did not click, but only made a sick sproing noise, and the Enter key in the numeric keypad did click - but tended to stick in the down position.

All I had to do with the Caps Lock key was remove it and replace it, then it worked normally.

With the Enter key, the problem was the levelling device, so removing it and replacing it carefully, and getting the levelling device right (I had to do it twice to get the spring right; the first time, it didn't do anything) eliminated the sticking problem.

Now I will see if this keyboard can be connected to a PC without too much in the way of conversion electronics; I am hopeful, from some of the information seen here.

There is, of course, no fundamental technical reason why Unicomp couldn't make 104-key keyboards using Model F technology, but that would be very unlikely. For one thing, the Model F is significantly noisier than the Model M: I had forgotten that little detail about how you could actually hear the springs springing back on the older keyboards.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sat, 03 October 2009, 23:46:39

Quote from: msiegel;122773

*mechanical breathing sounds*


oh! uhh.... hey! come on guys, we have to think up some brave and insane model f mods, to bring this classic up to date :)

edit: i created a model f group for us to join, so we can gang up on all the cost engineered buckling-springers ;)
http://geekhack.org/group.php?groupid=5

I'm in.  I don't expect more than a handful of geekhackers will want to be associated with this dark subculture. Who needs em anyway?
(as I type this post on my Filco blue Cherry keyboard)

I guess you're planning on lumping the 83-key PC/XT diehards in with the 84-key PC AT  fans.  Technically, they both use Model F technology, but the 84-key was never referred to as a Model F by IBM.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 00:17:29

mine is open as we speak :)

i'm planning a space bar transplant, adding real Alt and Ctrl keys to the bottom row, a model m key transplant to get a closer-to-ansi layout, hacking off the function and numpad sections, and a new usb controller (the open source one!)

muahahahaaa

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 04 October 2009, 04:49:12

Quote from: quadibloc;122777

There is, of course, no fundamental technical reason why Unicomp couldn't make 104-key keyboards using Model F technology, but that would be very unlikely. For one thing, the Model F is significantly noisier than the Model M: I had forgotten that little detail about how you could actually hear the springs springing back on the older keyboards.

The noise is a reason why they should make them again. I think the comparative levels of over-engineering are reasons why they can't be made again. You could probably buy a Filco with the amount of money it would cost to manufacture one, even in mass production.

Quote from: ripster;122781

Hah!  I've yet to see a successful Model F mod.  You guys are too scared to open them up because the foam keeps oozing out.

Might want to start with Retrobrite.  Watch out, 30 year old plastic will probably melt.

And they call Webwit a troll...

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: quadibloc on Sun, 04 October 2009, 09:19:58

Quote from: ripster;122781

Hah!  I've yet to see a successful Model F mod.

I was thinking that I really didn't want to do anything that involved opening up my rare and irreplaceable 122-key Model F, and this somewhat encourages me in that position.

I suspect that one could do a mod successfully, though... if one were prepared to make one's own printed circuit board to replace the one in the keyboard. I was never that advanced an electronics hobbyist to do such things, and I don't think they sell printed circuit do-it-yourself etching kits in that size anyways, if they even still have such things, at the local Radio Shack. (Now usually known as The Source by Circuit City.)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 10:43:35

Quote from: ch_123;122797

And they call Webwit a troll...

careful trolling can be a great ice breaker ;)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 11:01:57

Quote from: ch_123;122797

The noise is a reason why they should make them again. I think the comparative levels of over-engineering are reasons why they can't be made again.

hmm, maybe the design can be simplified for lower cost like the m was... but with more heavy-duty materials...

what does an updated model f design need:

plastic case
stamped steel backplate
hammer-mounting templates (could be injection molded as a single piece like the model m)
injection molded one-piece keys with dye-sub printing
springs and hammers
flexible capacitive circuit (can't these be printed nowadays, like membranes are)
controller

the bill of materials *could* be nearly the same as a modern day unicomp :)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 04 October 2009, 11:49:44

Umm...the keys are already one-piece.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 11:52:14

Quote from: timw4mail;122841

Umm...the keys are already one-piece.

we saved $0 on that one item alone!! ;D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 04 October 2009, 12:00:44

Why are all the chairs on skulls?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Ulysses31 on Sun, 04 October 2009, 12:26:59

It's probably a metaphor.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 12:29:33

*mumbles something about skeleton keys*

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 12:42:19

i love the smiley wall!
XD

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Sun, 04 October 2009, 12:45:00

WARNING: Wall of text
Thread lightly

Oh dear. Now I just had to read this entire thread and conjure up a reply instead of just ignoring uninformed reviewers who won't read this forum anyway.


Let us start with webwit's statements:

Quote from: webwit;122558

In my opinion Das Keyboard is Das Evil, and is some kind of cruel joke on wannabee geeks who buy a feeling and also a crap product.

Here is all that is wrong:

1. Das Name. This is an American company, that does not make keyboard but orders OEM keyboards in Taiwan, where they don't make switches, they order it from Cherry (German). Where they don't make switches either, they get it made in the Czech Republic. Don't ride the bandwagon of German craftsmanship if you're just some redneck douche bag company, please.

2. The controller bug issues..

3. It shines like it wants to poke my eye out and is some luxury object. It is just a piece of plastic.

4. Overpriced, you pay for the silly name.

5. Cherry Blue switches, aimed at beginners who are impressed by clicky sounds or non-beginning douchebags who want to impress people by pressing small leafs of metal while typing. It is a b-switch.

6. Claim of worlds best keyboard. See various points above. It is not.

7. Only mechanical keyboard picked up by the sites like wired, where a douchebag reviewer with no knowledge of keyboards will be impressed by clicky sounds.

All in all a marketing trick aimed at uninformed people who like to show off how sophisticated they are by buying overpriced crap. A bit like the Apple crowd. Bernays (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151#) would have been proud of both of them, these zealous students.

1. Fact.
2. "Half truth". Any keyboard has a limited scanrate, but it depends on the user whether or not it is perceivable. In this case they managed to screw up their demographic research and designed the scanrate far too low.
3. Opinion. Granted, it is extremely shiny, but so is other stuff put out right now (like my Nokia 6124 classic (http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-6124-classic) for example. Does what I want and more, but it is shiny). The Das stands out from other keyboards due to its "modern" design, even if that has drawbacks. We mostly prize keyboards by feel, whereas some judge it by looks. The Das tried to do both for the vague in-between crowd.
4. Fact. You pay for the design and the name, technically it can be built for far less.
5. FUD/Opinion. It's a different switch with totally different parameters. In the end, it makes contact just as good as a buckling spring, it's just that it has a radically different behaviour for the user.
On a sidenote: it doesn't "press" small leafs, instead the plunger stops the contact leaf from touching the contact when the key is not pressed down. Maybe some ALPS switch caused a mixup here (disclaimer: I haven't studied the whole ALPS family so I can't say which ones work like that).
6. Fact. No keyboard can be the world's best, period. Until you "grow" one on a per-user basis, this remains marketing crap.
7. Half truth. Most reviewers aren't paid to do thorough research, so it is already nice when a reviewer doesn't just copy the company's marketing FUD at verbatim.
Heck, the real point here is that everyone is biased. For example, there are articles about the model M and even about Unicomp, yet only those knowing them take notice.

Anyway, all that to say the Das is far from the best bang for your buck(lingspringfix).

Quote from: maxlugar;122778

I'm in.  I don't expect more than a handful of geekhackers will want to be associated with this dark subculture. Who needs em anyway?
(as I type this post on my Filco blue Cherry keyboard)

I guess you're planning on lumping the 83-key PC/XT diehards in with the 84-key PC AT  fans.  Technically, they both use Model F technology, but the 84-key was never referred to as a Model F by IBM.

I have a model F in shipment. If it does turn out to be an AT I'll try to collect the opinions into a thread together with my own review.

Quote from: ch_123;122740

Someone suggested that perhaps the membrane needed to be struck more forcefully than the capacitive plates did, which may suggest why the mechanism was changed around. As far as I can see, the spring is the only thing that can account for the difference between the two designs, and that theory is the one which explains why IBM would make the mechanism feel of lower quality when there was no apparent advantage in terms of things like cost reduction.

And whatever Ripster may say, it's nothing to do with those godforsaken hammers...

This is hard to say. The main question is in which way their design goals changed between the design of the model F and M. Any statements below are based on speculation as I don't know all parameters of the design by heart.

Cost cutting was one of the design changes, so they probably threw out the PCB first. Because membrane switches need to deform the top switching surface, they probably needed an increased force to be put on the membrane. For this, the hammer design was probably changed to have more torque (I'll need to look at some schematics again to see how much truth this holds).

With regards to the spring, there are a few possibilities here:
- With modified hammers, chances were that the spring wouldn't have enough force to buckle and push the hammer, hence the need for a more rigid spring (less coils).
- Alternatively, IBM might have gotten complaints from typists that the F was too light and caused them to bottom out all the time. At least for the XT, it seems that you easily bottom out and do so mercilessly.
This theory may seem odd, but do remember that the IBM PC series made computers "affordable", hence a lot of companies who hired only typists may have switched to computers. Under the right circumstances, this might have caused a large group of people preferring a heavier keyboard.
- Third: most likely it is a combination of the above.

With heavier springs, the feel is sure to be different. It buckles differently, and this in turn may mean that the spring may buckle earlier so you don't bottom out. It does need a higher force, of course.

Quote from: ch_123;122724

I would love to find a Model M that felt anything like a Model F. Having used a Unicomp and Model F side by side for quite a while, they are quite different to eachother. Maybe the earlier Model Ms felt like Model Fs, but I have never used one that wasn't in a horribly worn out condition.

Either way, the difference between the Unicomp and the Model F was sufficient to make me think "Wow..." when I pressed a key on the Model F for the first time.

[strike]As I stated above, I think it's in a combination of the hammers and springs.[/strike]

EDIT: So many similarities and differences between the model F and M that I still don't know. Better not to speculate until a successful conversion is made.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 12:53:50

i kind of like bottoming out on the model f...

even though it bottoms onto a hard surface, i feel like i'm just tapping the bottom rather than ramming into it.

plus the sound is outstanding :)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 04 October 2009, 13:05:05

click-sproiing

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 04 October 2009, 13:39:45

Quote from: ripster;122871

Just illustrates my hypothesis that Model F users don't have a sense of humor.

No, that's just timw4mail... The rest of us are pretty funny guys. Check out webwit for example =p

Quote

As I stated above, I think it's in a combination of the hammers and springs.

*facepalm* Seriously folks, many people have carried out experiments that effectively rule out the hammer hitting the plate as the source of noise or tactility. I think it's time you moved on.

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/394325753_5b20c0acd0.jpg?v=0)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Sun, 04 October 2009, 13:51:42

Quote from: ripster;122891

Sound sample here (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:4769) for those curious about the sound.  Warning - don't have sleeping babies nearby.

Any you're the same guys that complain about the Blue Cherry sound?!?!?

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4992&stc=1&d=1254681124)

Ah, tastes are weird, eh?

At any rate, you can't really compare the two sounds as the recordings aren't "standardized".

The model F sound does have some high-pitched frequencies although you bearable hear those at "typing distance". The same is probably true for the blue cherries. Still, the latter consist more of a "plastic" sound whereas the buckling spring have "pingy" and reverberation properties.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:01:11

Quote from: ch_123;122894

*facepalm* Seriously folks, many people have carried out experiments that effectively rule out the hammer hitting the plate as the source of noise or tactility. I think it's time you moved on.

Could be, but then I don't know if anyone actually knows the "exact" cause.

I'll strike-through the statement you quoted.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:04:27

Quote from: ch_123;122797

The noise is a reason why they should make them again. I think the comparative levels of over-engineering are reasons why they can't be made again. You could probably buy a Filco with the amount of money it would cost to manufacture one, even in mass production.

And they call Webwit a troll...

I wouldn't describe the Model F technology as overengineering.  It was the dominant tecnology used for terminal keyboards and early personal computer keyboards  when systems were sold as a bundle.  Y'all know I personally believe that the feel of the keypresses were perfected with the 84-key PC AT keyboard.  It's too bad that the Model F technology never made it to the 101 key layout.  Model Ms were the result of IBM's brilliant challenge to it's engineers to replicate the buckling spring technology with a keyboard that cost less to mass produce.  

I seriously doubt that keyboards using Model F technology (buckling spring over capacitive contact key switches) will ever be mass produced again.  Most people simply don't care that much about keyboards and the market demand would not generate enough volume to enable the profit margins required by the current manufacturers of high end botique keyboards.

What you are basically proposing is a Topre capacitive PCB with buckling spring key switches.  The current Topre switch is precision manufactured to fine tolerances but is simply a slider that pushes on a rubber dome.  Throwing in buckling springs and hammers multiplies the required components and increases the complexity of the assembly process, not to mention the required R&D and prototype costs that would have to be written off.  I'll bet Topre Corp. and PFU Fujitsu Systems are happy with their current profit margins.

And webwit is a troll (among other things) and I am a redneck (properly pronounced "reneck") troll.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:14:00

Quote from: ch_123;122894

many people have carried out experiments that effectively rule out the hammer hitting the plate as the source of noise or tactility

hmm, since the hammers aren't involved in the click or tactility...

any sense of whether a rubber sheet under the hammers would reduce the springs' pinging and some of the reverb?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:19:37

Quote from: maxlugar;122903

I seriously doubt that keyboards using Model F technology (buckling spring over capacitive contact key switches) will ever be mass produced again. Most people simply don't care that much about keyboards and the market demand would not generate enough volume to enable the profit margins required by the current manufacturers of high end botique keyboards.

ah, but as hobbyists all we gotta do is break even :)

we may have a shortage of capital and manufacturing might, but we do have an abundance of insight, and nobody is drawing a salary.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:23:26

That what you call echo is actually reverb (after all, you don't hear "ping, ping, ping..."). It is nearly impossible to remove this sound without coating the spring in grease or some other viscous fluid. While dampening the hammer's movement alters the sound, it will probably wont' change the sound of the spring slapping the key well.

If you want to know more about the mechanics, look at spring reverb units (http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/rvbtheop.htm) used in audio effect banks.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:26:54

Quote from: JBert;122908

That what you call echo is actually reverb (after all, you don't hear "ping, ping, ping..."). It is nearly impossible to remove this sound without coating the spring in grease or some other viscous fluid. While dampening the hammer's movement alters the sound, it will probably wont' change the sound of the spring slapping the key well.

If you want to know more about the mechanics, look at spring reverb units (http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/rvbtheop.htm) used in audio effect banks.

cool!

edit: damn, a diagram would help! :D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: maxlugar on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:27:45

Quote from: msiegel;122907

ah, but as hobbyists all we gotta do is break even :)

we may have a shortage of capital and manufacturing might, but we do have an abundance of insight, and nobody is drawing a salary.

Geekhacker innovation is the only chance we have of resurrecting Model F technology in a modern footprint.

I'm looking forward to the first modded board!

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:32:46

With how rare they are at this point, I'm not personally willing to break one open for modding, and will gladly deal with the layout issues.  (Although I did just mod my newest Cherry keyboard in order to show that hidden USB hub...)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:39:36

Ask Clickclack where he got his keyboards. After all, most of them lack the cable but could still be used for parts.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:54:16

Quote from: maxlugar;122903

Y'all know I personally believe that the feel of the keypresses were perfected with the 84-key PC AT keyboard.

Well, if the capacitive buckling leaf switches are as good as Webwit says, the Model F was probably a regression...

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:56:53

I'm still wondering how those work. Webwit's pictures don't reveal much of the mechanism or its inner workings.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 04 October 2009, 14:59:50

Yeah. I tried to find a patent but I failed miserably. I could do with a description of one, and preferably a board that has them =P

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 15:01:10

Quote from: ch_123;122923

I could do with a description of one, and preferably a board that has them =P

QFT

we need moar info!! :D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sun, 04 October 2009, 15:05:27

Quote from: JBert;122917

Ask Clickclack where he got his keyboards. After all, most of them lack the cable but could still be used for parts.

rumor has it clickclack is hiding 19 cargo containers full of model Fs ;D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Rajagra on Sun, 04 October 2009, 17:06:18

Quote from: ripster;122871

Meanwhile - At The Blue Cherry Club!

The new poledancer always starts trouble...

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: F2a on Mon, 05 October 2009, 14:58:20

Ok well, What if this board really did improve the NKRO? Then we have a good board with a 30 day return policy and a real warranty. Anyone?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Tue, 06 October 2009, 02:06:10

Ehr, it is already NKRO. It's just that the scanrate is too low.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Rajagra on Tue, 06 October 2009, 02:15:35

Quote from: JBert;123359

Ehr, it is already NKRO.

Subject to the USB 6-key plus modifier limitation.
The new model can plug into PS/2. So it has full, full NKRO.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: cmr on Tue, 06 October 2009, 03:30:04

Quote from: webwit;122713

Hear, hear, finally someone who knows what this is all about ;)

Although I don't want to scare the OP. To put things into perspective, any Cherry board is miles better than any Logitech board. A Logitech is a cheap Chinese car, a Cherry a Mercedes middle class, and we're just some nuts, like mentioned above, discussing the best car money could buy, which is not economically realistic.

this must mean that a filco is the equivalent of a nissan GT-R?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: clickclack on Tue, 06 October 2009, 03:41:27

Quote from: msiegel;122927

rumor has it clickclack is hiding 19 cargo containers full of model Fs ;D

19!?!?!?!?!?!
what happened to #20?
(quickly runs out back....phew... all there, all 20 of em!)
For a moment there I thought someone found my stash :S


So back to the original post, It will be interesting to see if any problems were noted and corrected in this current version of the keyboard. I have my doubts unfortunately, but it would be nice to see improvement. I am also of the belief that any mechanical keyboards in the press/publications is a good thing.

Are we possibly going too far off topic here? And if so then...?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 06 October 2009, 04:32:20

Quote from: maxlugar;122903

I wouldn't describe the Model F technology as overengineering.  It was the dominant tecnology used for terminal keyboards and early personal computer keyboards  when systems were sold as a bundle.  Y'all know I personally believe that the feel of the keypresses were perfected with the 84-key PC AT keyboard.  It's too bad that the Model F technology never made it to the 101 key layout.  Model Ms were the result of IBM's brilliant challenge to it's engineers to replicate the buckling spring technology with a keyboard that cost less to mass produce.

And the Model F was "the result of IBM's brilliant challenge" to its engineers to replicate the technology of the 3278 keyboard "with a keyboard that cost less to mass produce".

The 3278 switch is normally closed, if the patents describe the exact embodiment of the principle which that terminal used, which means it won't work with a Topre controller, and probably not with a Model F controller either. (Since there are people here who have opened up a Model F, they would know.)

Even the 3278 keyboard, as noted in its British patent, was designed as economical to manufacture compared to the kinds of keyboards which came before it. I wonder what kind of keyswitch was used by IBM on the 3277 Display Station.

Since there was one attempt to manufacture a buckling spring keyboard in China - apparently a dismal failure, though - it isn't impossible that some investor might try to resurrect that technology. Very unlikely, I admit. Since there are already products out there for keyboard aficionados, though, someone trying to capture that market by blowing everyone else out of the water is not impossible.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: Rajagra on Tue, 06 October 2009, 06:36:33

Quote from: webwit;122558

Bernays (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151#) would have been proud of both of them, these zealous students.

Holy crap, I just watched the first 2 episodes of that series. The 1st is interesting, but the 2nd is really shocking. Can't wait to see the final 2.

Should be compulsory viewing. Especially for Americans. And very much so for anyone being told they need to see an analyst.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: yode on Wed, 07 October 2009, 01:25:53

someone buy the model S to see if the scanrate issues are fixed. Then return it FA FRAY.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 07 October 2009, 03:07:21

if metadot had any sense they'd send one to geekhack for a review. if they've fixed it, GH would be the fastest way to get that news out there.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: elbowglue on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:26:15

That may be why one was not sent to (a) geekhack(er) for review...

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:37:27

Quote from: ripster;123690

Lesseeee:  Welly underwear review or Huha "critique sandwich" reviews.  Which one would a manufacturer prefer?

or a ripster patented sledge hammer :)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3522&d=1249169961)


my personal favorite is the ripster patented 9 foot drop ;)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3502&d=1249088737)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:41:14

How about the ripster patented keyboard-BBQ ;)  

Come on Metadot, what've you got to fear? :-D

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3528&d=1249193701)

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:44:00

Why do we have so many ways to mutilate keyboards?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:45:40

Quote from: timw4mail;123702

Why do we have so many ways to mutilate keyboards?

hey i just have sex with them  (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6352);) Ripster's the violent one  (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6671&highlight=sledgehammer);-D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: alpslover on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:49:51

Quote from: yode;123625

someone buy the model S to see if the scanrate issues are fixed. Then return it FA FRAY.

on the das keyboard web site, they don't actually mention anything about a newer version of the das.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:55:40

Quote from: alpslover;123707

on the das keyboard web site, they don't actually mention anything about a newer version of the das.

 
They spent two minutes in the box.  They feel shame.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:58:10

Why do you guys make keyboards so sensual?

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 07 October 2009, 12:16:37

Quote from: timw4mail;123713

Why do you guys make keyboards so sensual?

I think it's the subtly humorous juxtaposition of a non-sensual object with the sensual being.
 
Or, in layman's terms, "they do it for the lulz."

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Wed, 07 October 2009, 13:02:14

something you touch all day long every day isn't sensual?

hardly! :D

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: JBert on Thu, 08 October 2009, 04:10:01

Technically, anything that makes it suck less is an improvement.

Also, the fact that they OEM it is not the issue. The fact they didn't even bother to check it for defects is.

Title: Wired Magazine Reviews the Das Keyboard Professional Model S
Post by: msiegel on Sat, 10 October 2009, 01:32:28

Quote from: ripster;124251

Rule 34. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rule%2034)

come to think of it, is there a rouge's gallery of keyboard models around here?

you know... just pictures of various models, without all the dialogue
XD