geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: last100yen2 on Thu, 16 July 2015, 09:37:36
-
I do not see many people with 75% keyboard, is there reason why?
-
I still in the look for the perfect aluminium 75% board
Think it would be awesome
-
1) Many of them use non-standard cap sizes. While there are exceptions and you can find ways to make many of them work you can't just throw any cap set on them. The column to the right will have an improper profile with most sets that aren't uniform.
2) Mechanical keyboards are a niche, and 100%/TKL/60% are the established sizes in that niche. Most looking for a smaller size will either go for a TKL or a 60%. As such, there's not much incentive to make a 75% which is probably why bigger companies (Ducky, Filco etc.) don't make them.
3) Almost all 75% boards use Cherry style switches. If you want something else like ALPS, BS, Topre... tough.
It's kind of a shame, IMO 75% is the perfect layout.
-
Almost every laptop without a numpad has a 75% keyboard. ~_^
3) Almost all 75% boards use Cherry style switches. If you want something else like ALPS, BS, Topre... tough.
Half of the existing mechanical keyboards with a 75% layout have Alps switches/mount (Matias Mini * Pro, Siig, Ortek).
-
Almost every laptop without a numpad has a 75% keyboard. ~_^
3) Almost all 75% boards use Cherry style switches. If you want something else like ALPS, BS, Topre... tough.
Half of the existing mechanical keyboards with a 75% layout have Alps switches/mount (Matias Mini * Pro, Siig, Ortek).
The Matias Mini isn't a 75%. Same for the Leopold FC660C. Not sure what you would call them... 65%?
I had forgotten about the Siig and Ortek, I'll give you those. Still not many options compared to Cherry (Data911, Deck Ice, Keycool 84, Choc Mini, KBT Race, various customs). Supposedly Unicomp has a 75% in the works but I'll believe that one once it's actually out.
-
I don't see how Matias Mini * Pro aren't 75% keyboards. They have the alphanumeric section, a row of function keys, dedicated arrows and a half of the nav cluster.
-
and speaking of options, I didn't mention KPT, Dauphin, Acer or SMK either.
BTW "Cherry style switch" is a confusing term. There's a sticky (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56405.0) that requires calling MX-compatible switches "MX-compatible". Especially in this context, because Cherry themselves make a 75% keyboard (G84-4100), but with ML switches.
-
Most people don't need function keys on the go? But I need them both when game/work.
And my Vortex Race1 with me work on location this weekend, like any other days :D
-
I don't see how Matias Mini * Pro aren't 75% keyboards. They have the alphanumeric section, a row of function keys, dedicated arrows and a half of the nav cluster.
75% keyboards are supposed to have all of the nav cluster. If you need to use a function layer to get any of Insert/Delete/Home/Page Up/Page Down/End, it's not a 75%.
-
75% is by far my favorite size. Got a Keycool 84, Noppoo Choc Mini, TG3 BL82, and a Neutrino (though that's technically a 65% I think). I'm getting a Red Scarf in the next Group Buy too. The only thing that bothers me is the nonstandard keycap sizing so I can't use off the shelf keycap sets, but with the amount of custom sets and Group Buys that are occurring, most of them offering tsangen options it's not really an issue. To me the 75% is the perfect compromise between the smaller form factor and comfort of a 60% and wanting to keep dedicated arrow keys and not having to use a fn layer.
-
I don't see how Matias Mini * Pro aren't 75% keyboards. They have the alphanumeric section, a row of function keys, dedicated arrows and a half of the nav cluster.
75% keyboards are supposed to have all of the nav cluster. If you need to use a function layer to get any of Insert/Delete/Home/Page Up/Page Down/End, it's not a 75%.
Except you're wrong.
You're listing Noppoo Choc Mini, Keycool 84 and KBT Race as 75 %. Neither has a dedicated Insert key.
The TG3/Deck keyboard has Insert and Delete instead of right Alt and Control.
-
I don't see how Matias Mini * Pro aren't 75% keyboards. They have the alphanumeric section, a row of function keys, dedicated arrows and a half of the nav cluster.
75% keyboards are supposed to have all of the nav cluster. If you need to use a function layer to get any of Insert/Delete/Home/Page Up/Page Down/End, it's not a 75%.
Except you're wrong.
You're listing Noppoo Choc Mini, Keycool 84 and KBT Race as 75 %. Neither has a dedicated Insert key.
The TG3/Deck keyboard has Insert and Delete instead of right Alt and Control.
It is a relatively non-standardized size and there is variation. They're still better choices for those who don't want to rely on a function modifier than the Matias because they're only missing one key instead of four. Right Ctrl isn't explicitly used by much (Only Virtualbox comes to mind, and then only for guests without driver support) so it seems like nitpicking to count it as a missing key. You could always remap something else to insert, such as the break key on the Keycool. Not an ideal solution, but physically it works.
By your logic, anything with more keys than a 60% yet physically smaller than a TKL is a 75%. Just as a JD40 must be a 60% because it doesn't have the nav block or arrow keys and uses function keys to get more functionality. Yet, I somehow think at least some used to a 60% would have a hard time using a JD40 which is often refered to as 40%. Same thing here, most looking for a 75% would not consider the Matias because it's missing too many keys.
-
It is a relatively non-standardized size and there is variation. They're still better choices for those who don't want to rely on a function modifier than the Matias because they're only missing one key instead of four. Right Ctrl isn't explicitly used by much (Only Virtualbox comes to mind, and then only for guests without driver support) so it seems like nitpicking to count it as a missing key.
Ugh.
Matias Mini keyboards have *three* keys from the sixkey.
AltGr is necessary to type in plenty of national layouts. Right Control is useful to alternate hands without cramping the left pinkie.
By your logic, anything with more keys than a 60% yet physically smaller than a TKL is a 75%. Just as a JD40 must be a 60% because it doesn't have the nav block or arrow keys and uses function keys to get more functionality. Yet, I somehow think at least some used to a 60% would have a hard time using a JD40 which is often refered to as 40%. Same thing here, most looking for a 75% would not consider the Matias because it's missing too many keys.
and apart from being wrong, be so kind and don't put ridiculous BS into my mouth. Most of these layouts are relatively well defined.
~40%
alphanumeric section - number row
60%
alphanumeric section
~65%
alphanumeric section + arrows and something
70%
alphanumeric section + function keys
75%
alphanumeric section + function keys + arrows and something (without the Model M spacing in navigation section)
-
Define "something"
There is no standardization in 75%. And that's a good thing, maybe someone will dare to use a spacebar that *gasp* isn't standard but actually fits nicely and allows for properly sized six or seven mods beside it, like 6u(1.25|1|1.25 both sides) or 4u(1.5|1.5|1.5 both sides or 1.5|1|1.5|4|1.5|1|1|1.5)
-
Ugh.
Matias Mini keyboards have *three* keys from the sixkey.
AltGr is necessary to type in plenty of national layouts. Right Control is useful to alternate hands without cramping the left pinkie.
So I got a detail on a keyboard I don't own wrong. Still doesn't invalidate my point that it doesn't fit the demographic 75% keyboards are meant to fill. You're missing the forest for the trees if that's all you got out of my post.
I agree about right Alt and never said it wasn't important. There aren't many 75% ISO boards, this could be part of why.
and apart from being wrong, be so kind and don't put ridiculous BS into my mouth. Most of these layouts are relatively well defined.
~40%
alphanumeric section - number row
60%
alphanumeric section
~65%
alphanumeric section + arrows and something
70%
alphanumeric section + function keys
75%
alphanumeric section + function keys + arrows and something (without the Model M spacing in navigation section)
I fail to see how I was putting "ridiculous BS into [your] mouth". I was just trying to draw a comparison that I hoped would show you why I don't consider it a 75% board, I never said you were confusing 40% and 60%. Even Matias himself sees that it doesn't fit everyone's use case which is why he put together his own "60%" (his classification choice, not mine) with a different set of keys from that nav cluster.
The only layout I said wasn't well defined was 75%, and that one is true, almost all 75% on the market have slightly different layouts. What they have in common is that they have as many of a TKL's keys as they can fit into as small a space as possible. The Matias doesn't fit this description.
Whatever the case, I give up. You clearly expect something different out of a 75% than I do. Let's just agree to disagree.
I guess this does add to OP's answer though. You cant have many people owning a style of board if you can't agree what that style actually is.
-
What they have in common is that they have as many of a TKL's keys as they can fit into as small a space as possible.
Congratulations, you've just defined the 75% layout as it's commonly understood (http://deskthority.net/wiki/75%25).
-
Don't like the odd concessions on available off the shelf production models? Maybe a kit board like the RS84 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73572.0) is for you?