Post by: whizzard on Mon, 20 July 2015, 20:02:42
Sometimes I wait a few months after release before installing a new version. This one seems like it has had a long preview though, and people seem to prefer using 10. The fact that it is free (kinda.. you have to have invested in Windows already) also makes it tempting. I haven't tried the preview, other than just not feeling like going through the trouble... I figured I would just wait for the final release.
I have a few SSDs coming that were on sale and I am planning on doing a Raid 0 array for the new OS, because upgrading a windows os version over an old one on a hard disk always seems to cause problems. :rolleyes: Also when I wipe my OS drive for a fresh install no matter how much stuff I back up and save, I always end up losing something important. So I am thinking of just using a new partition on the array and keeping this disks data for a while until I know I have everything I need from it.
I am not sure but did they drop the "live tiles" thing all together? I never use them personally and would not miss them.
Any thoughts on upgrading to windows 10 right away.... or later?
Do you think they will release an ISO or force people to use some upgrade application?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 20 July 2015, 23:05:32
So yeah - pretty much right away.
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 20 July 2015, 23:57:06
Probably they will release an ISO, it just makes things so much easier.
Yes, installing fresh is always a good idea. Rather than keeping old drives, I usually just make a disk image of the old one, and shove it into storage until I'm sure I've got everything I want. Most of my stuff is on a separate data drive anyway, so it's not as though there's much to lose.
I probably won't upgrade my Windows drive immediately myself -- I'll wait and try out something my dad has upgraded first.
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 21 July 2015, 06:45:27
As for 10,
Yes, it has live tiles, but you can resize the start menu, it no longer takes over your entire screen. 2 months ago, I was beginning to worry this would be a flop, but in the last month or so, it's really come along and now makes Win7 feel old (8 and 8.1 as well!). Seriously, it's shocking how old it makes them feel. I dare say I really like this OS. It has a nice look and feel, with good underpinnings. The UI changes made it far more intuitive and the new Action Center is actually useful and handy, it's one of my favorite changes. I think many who switch are going to end up with the opinion that this is one of the best MS has done.
Pretty much everything I have either already does, or will have 10, other than the laptop that is incapable. A bunch of 2nd gen Core I series (usually with hybrid graphics) can't go beyond Win8.0, MS has spent a long time fix it, but can't seem to.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 21 July 2015, 07:51:53
Installing over old, only brings bugs and infections with it.
I feel the same way and only do fresh installs, but both my kids have Dell Inspirion laptops with pre-installed OS (no disc, just a "recovery partition" or whatever it is called), and I can't afford retail.
Does the free upgrade/download/whatever ride on top of the existing install, and/or (I am guessing that this is true:) will it format over the recovery partition, so that I can't revert back to 7 if something goes wrong?
Post by: whizzard on Tue, 21 July 2015, 10:32:16
Pretty much everything I have either already does, or will have 10, other than the laptop that is incapable. A bunch of 2nd gen Core I series (usually with hybrid graphics) can't go beyond Win8.0, MS has spent a long time fix it, but can't seem to.
I have heard that 10 can be run on a ton of machines, even raspberry pi. They must have done a lot to optimize the OS and stripped out a lot of the fat. That makes it appealing to everyone. Maybe I can even dust off my ancient netbook and give it a shot with 10.
Post by: Touch_It on Tue, 21 July 2015, 14:18:16
Post by: fliptrik on Tue, 21 July 2015, 14:48:30
Post by: fishcola on Tue, 21 July 2015, 18:23:33
Post by: whizzard on Tue, 21 July 2015, 21:00:11
Post by: tbc on Tue, 21 July 2015, 21:37:20
Post by: MajorMajor on Tue, 21 July 2015, 23:47:32
Post by: fishcola on Wed, 22 July 2015, 00:06:54
I was curious and browsing around the FAQ on the Microsoft site. There was a comment there saying that they will provide an ISO for offline installation, I hope this is true.
I hope it's true too!*but* they provided win7 isos which was very useful for me or anyone who deals with multi os setups, but in recent times i found that i had to go the extra mile to find the same isos, and the microsoft mirrors i'd initially used were no longer available... don't mean to be a tinfoil hat guy, but that's the reason i'm jumping on this "free" upgrade :D
Post by: nothing4me on Wed, 22 July 2015, 00:22:14
Post by: fishcola on Wed, 22 July 2015, 00:33:53
Post by: Techno Trousers on Wed, 22 July 2015, 01:03:55
About Windows 10, my favorite features are:
- return of the start menu, better than ever with resizing and live tiles.
- Running Windows Universal apps (formerly Metro/Modern) as regular resizable, overlappable Windows. The joke I heard from the build conference is that 8 should have been named Window 8.
- Virtual desktops available natively, and keyboard shortcuts to navigate them.
- New Microsoft Edge standards-based browser to jettison all the legacy Internet Exploder B.S.. It'll be nice for Chrome to have some real competition again, since Google is feeling kind of dictatorial these days.
- (Best of all) Breaking from the monolithic periodic release model, and instead continuously releasing feature enhancements through Windows update.
What I've read about the pricing is it will be free for the first year to those licensed for Windows 7 and up. If you're building a new PC you'll need to buy it (OEM version, at least), as would those wanting to upgrade after the first year or from an older version of Windows. There is supposed to be a way to do a clean install with the free upgrade version of 10. I think you need to get your upgrade code, then use that while clean installing.
It really feels like a new, agile Microsoft these days, and I hope their new strategies really pay off for them and consumers.
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 22 July 2015, 01:49:35
I have heard that 10 can be run on a ton of machines, even raspberry pi. They must have done a lot to optimize the OS and stripped out a lot of the fat. That makes it appealing to everyone. Maybe I can even dust off my ancient netbook and give it a shot with 10.I have it on a netbook, it runs well enough, faster than 7. Throw as much ram as it allows and call it good. Don't bother with a fast SSD, netbooks lack the processing to take advantage of the fast transfer rates.
As for the Pi, it's only the Pi 2, and it's a special (free) version of Win10 (which is closer to Windows RT, I'm sure).
Does the free upgrade/download/whatever ride on top of the existing install, and/or (I am guessing that this is true:) will it format over the recovery partition, so that I can't revert back to 7 if something goes wrong?They will allow you to download an ISO and do a fresh install. I'm not sure how it will work though, you may have to register and get a code, or call and activate.
I was curious and browsing around the FAQ on the Microsoft site. There was a comment there saying that they will provide an ISO for offline installation, I hope this is true. Hoping that is available day one. My only hesitation is if they make me try to install it over my current 8.1 install by using some "easy upgrade" application or utility or whatever from within my current Windows. I just want to burn a disc reboot and install it clean.See above, but beware, it will probably invalidate your old code.
Post by: Rodgaroon on Sat, 25 July 2015, 17:59:23
And no i cant share Screen shots. Microsoft would have my head. (seriously, I had to sign a freaking contract)
Post by: Rodgaroon on Sat, 25 July 2015, 18:10:27
Also I don't have a lot of software on my home PC. Just games, MS office, iTunes, etc. no custom stuff. At work...Well that's a different story.
Post by: oledome on Tue, 28 July 2015, 19:07:49
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 28 July 2015, 19:29:20
On another note, this has been aware to pretty much everyone who has a windows PC for what, 3 months?
An email went out today from the head of the Service Desk at my work asking if it would work with our remote access software.
A day. One. Day. Before. Release.
What the ****. Tomorrow night is going to be fun.
Post by: Fire Brand on Tue, 28 July 2015, 19:34:07
I'm excited. Hoping the install wont recognise my fake Win 7 install...Just so you know its being released in batches and not in one go, most likely won't get it until next week :x Also unless they changed it again its been documented a few times it will see the license as fake, and put the watermark on.
On another note, this has been aware to pretty much everyone who has a windows PC for what, 3 months?
An email went out today from the head of the Service Desk at my work asking if it would work with our remote access software.
A day. One. Day. Before. Release.
What the ****. Tomorrow night is going to be fun.
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 02:58:32
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 05:47:24
I'm thinking of upgrading but am worried about my Steam folder and save files etc... And any experience upgrading 7-10 with steam and iTunes? I don't want to have to download all my steam ****e again and sort out iTunes AGAINNot with windows 10 will do later on this week but for windows 8 upgrade I did it was fine nothing changed from 7 to 8 but that said my steam and iTunes are on separate drives you can back up the games on steam if your worried but otherwise I doubt it will changed anything at all
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 06:18:17
I'm thinking of upgrading but am worried about my Steam folder and save files etc... And any experience upgrading 7-10 with steam and iTunes? I don't want to have to download all my steam ****e again and sort out iTunes AGAINNot with windows 10 will do later on this week but for windows 8 upgrade I did it was fine nothing changed from 7 to 8 but that said my steam and iTunes are on separate drives you can back up the games on steam if your worried but otherwise I doubt it will changed anything at all
yeah same here, but I just wanted to make sure... I can't update it atm anyway so I'm guessing I've got some funky **** hardware or something?
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 06:48:27
Much also with the update although it's out today again mostly everyone will be getting it in waves over the next two weeks so I would expect it to be later this week anyway :xI'm thinking of upgrading but am worried about my Steam folder and save files etc... And any experience upgrading 7-10 with steam and iTunes? I don't want to have to download all my steam ****e again and sort out iTunes AGAINNot with windows 10 will do later on this week but for windows 8 upgrade I did it was fine nothing changed from 7 to 8 but that said my steam and iTunes are on separate drives you can back up the games on steam if your worried but otherwise I doubt it will changed anything at all
yeah same here, but I just wanted to make sure... I can't update it atm anyway so I'm guessing I've got some funky **** hardware or something?
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Wed, 29 July 2015, 07:07:37
That's what I'm doing.
At 97% now
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 07:18:00
If you don't want to wait you can download it from their website (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10).
That's what I'm doing.
At 97% now
Is that for only a fresh install or an update version or what?
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 07:36:07
Ahh cool that was hidden away then also got it on download now I'll let you know if narwhal does not first :xIf you don't want to wait you can download it from their website (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10).
That's what I'm doing.
At 97% now
Is that for only a fresh install or an update version or what?
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Wed, 29 July 2015, 07:39:31
It works as an update version.If you don't want to wait you can download it from their website (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10).
That's what I'm doing.
At 97% now
Is that for only a fresh install or an update version or what?
You can choose to do a fresh install with it though.
Post by: jerue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 07:41:07
Personally I will wait a couple of Tuesdays before I install Windows 10. I've been using the insider program on a VM at work and yes, it really is nice. Will update over my 8.1 installation.
People are already requesting enterprise licenses at work...public product just came out today :confused: * long sigh
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 07:47:12
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 08:52:41
take a guess what didn't happen....
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 08:58:55
I just want to say LMAO it's like windows going something happened but screw you if you want to know why XDShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/IbMMdze.png)
take a guess what didn't happen....
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:00:10
And I'm using IE on a home PC for the first time in about 12 years
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:00:16
Post by: Belfong on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:00:39
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:05:34
I'm in. And it's pretty good. Glad I can download some apps that I have on my Windows Phone onto my PC as well without it being "LOL WHY DIDN'T YOU GET A TOUCHSCREEN PC *******"Woah woah woah didn't you say you're was a none genuine one did it active or do you have a derpy water mark also using IE it's the apocalypse next you'll tell me you enjoy using Norton anti virus :c
And I'm using IE on a home PC for the first time in about 12 years
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:10:11
I'm in. And it's pretty good. Glad I can download some apps that I have on my Windows Phone onto my PC as well without it being "LOL WHY DIDN'T YOU GET A TOUCHSCREEN PC *******"Woah woah woah didn't you say you're was a none genuine one did it active or do you have a derpy water mark also using IE it's the apocalypse next you'll tell me you enjoy using Norton anti virus :c
And I'm using IE on a home PC for the first time in about 12 years
Yep. I got no watermark. Admittedly I've only been using it for about an hour now, but nothing during installation or since.
And IE isn't that bad. The 6 months I've been using my windows phone haven't been torturous, and I think it's pretty nice looking.
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:12:04
29%
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:17:04
@baldgye lol 18% here on my desktop gotta do the laptop I have then
Post by: Belfong on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:17:05
not bad for a puny 6mbps line.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:18:00
Post by: Touch_It on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:20:36
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:21:24
The only thing I dislike about Windows 10 so far (been using the beta for a while now) is the lack of an option to ignore certain updates. Like graphics drivers. Driver updates should be made "optional" as they have been on all previous versions of Windows. You can only "sort of" turn off automatic updates...meaning you can choose when to restart your PC to apply the updates. I realize this is supposed to be "Windows-as-a-service" and that they want you to have the latest updates at all times. But I really don't need Microsoft updating my graphics driver, when I always get the latest driver direct from Nvidia.
I'm told there is a tool you can download from MS that will change windows updates to work more like win7... but I'm not sure how it works or where you get it from as I've yet to run the OS for any time (tried the beta for a day or so)...
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:26:13
I believe that there is a way (from Microsoft) to do just that. I don't have the time ATM to do that. I will try to find it later.
The only thing I dislike about Windows 10 so far (been using the beta for a while now) is the lack of an option to ignore certain updates. Like graphics drivers. Driver updates should be made "optional" as they have been on all previous versions of Windows. You can only "sort of" turn off automatic updates...meaning you can choose when to restart your PC to apply the updates. I realize this is supposed to be "Windows-as-a-service" and that they want you to have the latest updates at all times. But I really don't need Microsoft updating my graphics driver, when I always get the latest driver direct from Nvidia.
I'm told there is a tool you can download from MS that will change windows updates to work more like win7... but I'm not sure how it works or where you get it from as I've yet to run the OS for any time (tried the beta for a day or so)...
Ah, I hadn't seen that. It's here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
Thanks!
Post by: Belfong on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:37:12
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 09:40:57
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Wed, 29 July 2015, 10:10:59
Other than that it seems like a good OS.
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 29 July 2015, 10:31:03
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 10:42:33
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 10:49:05
finally getting this download going for the 3rd time... and it's now downloading painfully slowly :(
West coast USA is awake now, and they are all pulling bandwidth for sure downloading the ISO.
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 10:56:10
finally getting this download going for the 3rd time... and it's now downloading painfully slowly :(
West coast USA is awake now, and they are all pulling bandwidth for sure downloading the ISO.
Yeah I thought it might be at my end, but it's not :( 17% ...I wish if you didn't have enough space on your hdd the file it downloaded remained in your memory or something so you could delete stuff, make room without having to download the whole thing again :/
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 11:24:19
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 13:27:40
"Continuing with the installation of Windows will change your display language. To change it back, you'll need to reinstall the language pack."
I'm running an English version of Win7 :/
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:15:09
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:22:06
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:30:56
Downloading display drivers now, though I can't seem to close Device Manager's auto search window thing... but I really like the look of it, looks really nice and sharp... and the default font is reeeal nice
Yeah, I think it looks really sharp as well. Windows explorer isn't horrible to look at, and I think the new updated icons are actually pretty cool.
I'm also using Internet Explorer because Google Chrome looks out of date compared to the OS.
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:31:47
Downloading display drivers now, though I can't seem to close Device Manager's auto search window thing... but I really like the look of it, looks really nice and sharp... and the default font is reeeal nice
Yeah, I think it looks really sharp as well. Windows explorer isn't horrible to look at, and I think the new updated icons are actually pretty cool.
I'm also using Internet Explorer because Google Chrome looks out of date compared to the OS.
Using firefox atm, i dont know why, but even though it runs like ****, I still got allot of love going way back for the old gurl
Though I'm not happy about it rearagning all my bloody desktop icons... THAT WAS INTENTIONAL CHAOS
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:32:20
me too :xDownloading display drivers now, though I can't seem to close Device Manager's auto search window thing... but I really like the look of it, looks really nice and sharp... and the default font is reeeal nice
Yeah, I think it looks really sharp as well. Windows explorer isn't horrible to look at, and I think the new updated icons are actually pretty cool.
I'm also using Internet Explorer because Google Chrome looks out of date compared to the OS.
Using firefox atm, i dont know why, but even though it runs like ****, I still got allot of love going way back for the old gurl
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:34:42
Hrrrmmm.. $100... is that just the vanilla... what features are missing.
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:37:07
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
The price is free if you have Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. :D
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:37:20
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
Hrrrmmm.. $100... is that just the vanilla... what features are missing.
It's free what the **** is wrong with you
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:37:37
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
Hrrrmmm.. $100... is that just the vanilla... what features are missing.
200$ for pro
not worth it imo
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:37:51
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
The price is free if you have Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. :D
I have Windows 7 Arrgh matey edition.. is it free for me?
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:38:05
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
The price is free if you have Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. :D
I have Windows 7 Arrgh matey edition.. is it free for me?
Yes, they say your license will be exactly the same after the free upgrade.
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:38:55
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
The price is free if you have Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. :D
I have Windows 7 Arrgh matey edition.. is it free for me?
you can try
i have arrgh matey Win 8 Pro... kinda am tempted to try upgrading...
Post by: Touch_It on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:39:07
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
The price is free if you have Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. :D
I have Windows 7 Arrgh matey edition.. is it free for me?
For you tp, no. :D
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:39:15
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
The price is free if you have Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. :D
I have Windows 7 Arrgh matey edition.. is it free for me?
you can try
i have arrgh matey Win 8 Pro... kinda am tempted to try upgrading...
Do it!
Post by: Touch_It on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:42:24
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:42:32
IDK... I think i MIGHT buy it.. if the price isn't ridiculous..
The price is free if you have Windows 7, 8, or 8.1. :D
I have Windows 7 Arrgh matey edition.. is it free for me?
you can try
i have arrgh matey Win 8 Pro... kinda am tempted to try upgrading...
Do it!
Here's the thing... I'm a little worried that it may break my OTHER argh matey apps..
Has anyone found any application conflicts thus far? is everything A-OK??
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:44:21
I'm going to swap in a 500GB SSD at that time as well.
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:48:16
Here's the thing... I'm a little worried that it may break my OTHER argh matey apps..
Has anyone found any application conflicts thus far? is everything A-OK??
Which ones you wondering about? My Win 7 copy wasn't genuine and Steam, displayfusion, f-lux, rainmeter, all work fine.
No watermarks or prompts about my license either.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:57:10
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:57:49
You guys are making me want to try out windows 10, dumb question because I honestly have mostly ignored it if I 'upgrade' can I reinstall Windows 7 if I don't like 10?? My current license is Dell OEM Windows 7 Ultimate.
No, it will overwrite your recovery partition, if you have one. The only way back would be a clean install of Win 7.
Make sure you create recovery media in Win 7 before you upgrade.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:07:03
Here's the thing... I'm a little worried that it may break my OTHER argh matey apps..
Has anyone found any application conflicts thus far? is everything A-OK??
Which ones you wondering about? My Win 7 copy wasn't genuine and Steam, displayfusion, f-lux, rainmeter, all work fine.
No watermarks or prompts about my license either.
I'm just worried that some of the crk exes would stop working..
I don' wanna get too specific.. haha
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:15:06
You guys are making me want to try out windows 10, dumb question because I honestly have mostly ignored it if I 'upgrade' can I reinstall Windows 7 if I don't like 10?? My current license is Dell OEM Windows 7 Ultimate.
No, it will overwrite your recovery partition, if you have one. The only way back would be a clean install of Win 7.
Make sure you create recovery media in Win 7 before you upgrade.
Microsoft have said there is a 30 day roll back period. Which I'm assuming means there is a relatively simple way of going back on your choice. But I would take JD's advice.
But as someone who was wholeheartedly against Windows 8, I think you will like 10.
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:15:40
wrong it gives you the option within the first month of installing 10 to roll back to the previous windows copyYou guys are making me want to try out windows 10, dumb question because I honestly have mostly ignored it if I 'upgrade' can I reinstall Windows 7 if I don't like 10?? My current license is Dell OEM Windows 7 Ultimate.
No, it will overwrite your recovery partition, if you have one. The only way back would be a clean install of Win 7.
Make sure you create recovery media in Win 7 before you upgrade.
settings > update and security > recovery > second option to be used in the first month of installing windows 10
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:20:37
I didn't mean that to sound snarky, love you JDwrong it gives you the option within the first month of installing 10 to roll back to the previous windows copyYou guys are making me want to try out windows 10, dumb question because I honestly have mostly ignored it if I 'upgrade' can I reinstall Windows 7 if I don't like 10?? My current license is Dell OEM Windows 7 Ultimate.
No, it will overwrite your recovery partition, if you have one. The only way back would be a clean install of Win 7.
Make sure you create recovery media in Win 7 before you upgrade.
settings > update and security > recovery > second option to be used in the first month of installing windows 10
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:21:58
redownloading the full W10
GG...
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:25:15
I didn't mean that to sound snarky, love you JDwrong it gives you the option within the first month of installing 10 to roll back to the previous windows copyYou guys are making me want to try out windows 10, dumb question because I honestly have mostly ignored it if I 'upgrade' can I reinstall Windows 7 if I don't like 10?? My current license is Dell OEM Windows 7 Ultimate.
No, it will overwrite your recovery partition, if you have one. The only way back would be a clean install of Win 7.
Make sure you create recovery media in Win 7 before you upgrade.
settings > update and security > recovery > second option to be used in the first month of installing windows 10
Ah, I didn't know they had added that. I did a clean install of the beta on a new PC build, so I have no experience yet with the upgrade path.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:26:05
GOOD THING, Tp4 only plays Agar.io..
now If they updated Agar.io to DX12... THEN I would be forced to get win 10
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:29:02
I think we should prolly keep our laptops win 7 for now.. and wait till they get on that..
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:32:48
Hnrrmmm.. it seems win 10 is more of a battery eater for laptops at the moment..
I think we should prolly keep our laptops win 7 for now.. and wait till they get on that..
My laptop (one of them, anyway) is on Win 8.1. What do?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 29 July 2015, 15:37:10
Hnrrmmm.. it seems win 10 is more of a battery eater for laptops at the moment..
I think we should prolly keep our laptops win 7 for now.. and wait till they get on that..
My laptop (one of them, anyway) is on Win 8.1. What do?
if it's a clean install, everything's prolly fine.. but all those fancy UI graphics, that DOES use power.
Post by: fishcola on Wed, 29 July 2015, 16:12:14
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Wed, 29 July 2015, 16:15:23
Just got it installed.... only to find out I chose 32-bit (ARGH). also, beware NVidia users, multiple monitor support doesn't seem to be working yet... sigh time to redownload the right version...Multiple monitors work just fine once you've installed NVidia's drivers.
Autohotkey does not work with TeamSpeak in Win 10 though which is kind of strange :confused:
Post by: fishcola on Wed, 29 July 2015, 16:23:00
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 29 July 2015, 18:17:29
Post by: Belfong on Wed, 29 July 2015, 18:18:26
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 29 July 2015, 18:41:10
Much nicer look - they've kind of gone all Jony Ive and made everything "flat" - some people like it, some don't. I don't really care either way
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 29 July 2015, 19:31:38
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 19:34:53
Any thoughts on the new MS browser vs Chrome?
I prefer it. I have all my widgets and plugins and **** on Chrome, but it looks dated compared to the new setup. I'm using IE until I start hating it.
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:26:01
Just got it installed.... only to find out I chose 32-bit (ARGH). also, beware NVidia users, multiple monitor support doesn't seem to be working yet... sigh time to redownload the right version...Thanks for this... I would have had a meltdown when all six of my monitors wouldn't work!!!
Post by: Ryukuxyz on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:40:59
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Wed, 29 July 2015, 20:45:59
It works after you've installed the Nvidia drivers. So far I've had no problems with my triple monitor set up.Just got it installed.... only to find out I chose 32-bit (ARGH). also, beware NVidia users, multiple monitor support doesn't seem to be working yet... sigh time to redownload the right version...Thanks for this... I would have had a meltdown when all six of my monitors wouldn't work!!!
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 29 July 2015, 21:05:51
Registered for the update hours ago, and no notification yet. :( How long did it take you guys to receive your notification to upgrade?
I wondered this myself and did some digging. Looks like it could be weeks before you get a notification. They are doing this probably to reduce the load on their servers. But if you dig around on the site you can find a link to download it. It was disguised as an .iso for upgrading multiple PCs.
Post by: Binge on Wed, 29 July 2015, 21:06:52
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 29 July 2015, 21:39:07
Registered for the update hours ago, and no notification yet. :( How long did it take you guys to receive your notification to upgrade?
Just go into cmd prompt and type the following to force launch it
cuauclt.exe /updatenow
Post by: Binge on Wed, 29 July 2015, 22:07:45
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 29 July 2015, 22:11:01
Login screen is ugly... how to change? :-[
The background? Or the bit you type the password into? It might change if you use the facial recognition login, but I'm not sure. Packed my webcam away fro the move that never happened lol...
Post by: MajorMajor on Wed, 29 July 2015, 23:21:28
Post by: Fire Brand on Thu, 30 July 2015, 04:24:27
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 30 July 2015, 04:33:37
Has anyone figured out how to turn auto updates off as it kinda bothers me I usually get a terrible ping when I play games 180ms :x and even watching YouTube when play sometimes put me upto 250+
I believe that there is a way (from Microsoft) to do just that. I don't have the time ATM to do that. I will try to find it later.The only thing I dislike about Windows 10 so far (been using the beta for a while now) is the lack of an option to ignore certain updates. Like graphics drivers. Driver updates should be made "optional" as they have been on all previous versions of Windows. You can only "sort of" turn off automatic updates...meaning you can choose when to restart your PC to apply the updates. I realize this is supposed to be "Windows-as-a-service" and that they want you to have the latest updates at all times. But I really don't need Microsoft updating my graphics driver, when I always get the latest driver direct from Nvidia.
I'm told there is a tool you can download from MS that will change windows updates to work more like win7... but I'm not sure how it works or where you get it from as I've yet to run the OS for any time (tried the beta for a day or so)...
Ah, I hadn't seen that. It's here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
Thanks!
Post by: Fire Brand on Thu, 30 July 2015, 04:51:23
Ohh thanks baldgyeHas anyone figured out how to turn auto updates off as it kinda bothers me I usually get a terrible ping when I play games 180ms :x and even watching YouTube when play sometimes put me upto 250+I believe that there is a way (from Microsoft) to do just that. I don't have the time ATM to do that. I will try to find it later.The only thing I dislike about Windows 10 so far (been using the beta for a while now) is the lack of an option to ignore certain updates. Like graphics drivers. Driver updates should be made "optional" as they have been on all previous versions of Windows. You can only "sort of" turn off automatic updates...meaning you can choose when to restart your PC to apply the updates. I realize this is supposed to be "Windows-as-a-service" and that they want you to have the latest updates at all times. But I really don't need Microsoft updating my graphics driver, when I always get the latest driver direct from Nvidia.
I'm told there is a tool you can download from MS that will change windows updates to work more like win7... but I'm not sure how it works or where you get it from as I've yet to run the OS for any time (tried the beta for a day or so)...
Ah, I hadn't seen that. It's here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
Thanks!
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 30 July 2015, 05:42:12
It had the upgrade to Windows 10, and was apparently supported, according to Dell.
He upgraded to Windows 10.
Lots of bits of hardware simply did not work, so he did a factory reset to Win 8.
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 30 July 2015, 06:36:37
One of the guys at work received a new notebook couple of days ago with Win 8 on it.
It had the upgrade to Windows 10, and was apparently supported, according to Dell.
He upgraded to Windows 10.
Lots of bits of hardware simply did not work, so he did a factory reset to Win 8.
I mean, it's only been out a day. I was pretty surprised that all my hardware worked and had supported drivers. Hell even ATi had proper graphics drivers for x64 win10.
Post by: Air tree on Thu, 30 July 2015, 09:00:11
Oh and the new internet explorer is actually quite nice surprisingly. It's quite fast and pretty sleek looking...
Post by: slip84 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 12:37:09
So far it's running as smoothly as 8.1, which is great.
Now if I can get my work to move on from Windows 7...
Post by: TastaturenAuslese on Thu, 30 July 2015, 13:13:38
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 30 July 2015, 13:21:06
Anyone having troubles with games in Windows 10? Or do I have nothing to fear?
I was worried but after installing the gfx drivers I ran all the games I've been messing with recently;
Project Cars
Starcraft 2
Alien Isolation
and all ran as they did in win7, even my settings where the same
Post by: TastaturenAuslese on Thu, 30 July 2015, 13:34:21
Are GFX drivers = Graphics card drivers? :3Anyone having troubles with games in Windows 10? Or do I have nothing to fear?
I was worried but after installing the gfx drivers I ran all the games I've been messing with recently;
Project Cars
Starcraft 2
Alien Isolation
and all ran as they did in win7, even my settings where the same
Post by: Binge on Thu, 30 July 2015, 13:35:11
It's running alright, but it just seems like the UI was rushed.
Post by: slip84 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 14:19:38
I did like the look of Windows 8.1 a lot more, generally.
Post by: Binge on Thu, 30 July 2015, 14:35:47
Which is hilarious since they've been tweaking it for nearly a YEAER.
I did like the look of Windows 8.1 a lot more, generally.
What's there to tweak? It's super minimal, all tiles, but lacks customization and everything is spread out ERREWHERE. It's like... the larger my screen the more movement I need to do with my mouse to use stuff. Bing integration with search/run is a terrible idea.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 30 July 2015, 14:53:41
As for the UI, I don't think it's been rushed. I don't think stuff is spread out, unless you mean the settings are all in new places, it seems like it's the same areas on the screen it was in Windows 7, unless there are things I'm not using. Scrolling down in the start menu is cool, and I don't mind the blue start menu. I don't tend to spend a lot of time with it up for it to make a notable impact on my colour scheme.
The only thing I am a bit annoyed at is when you have a blank page set to open when you open a new tab, you have to click in the address box before you type anything in, instead of just putting the typing prompt in there straight away.
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Thu, 30 July 2015, 15:04:06
Hopefully itwill give Google an incentive to optimize Chrome though because right now it just eats RAM.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 30 July 2015, 15:05:37
Edge seems like a pretty good browser but I can't move away from my Chrome extensions (especially Vimium (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vimium/dbepggeogbaibhgnhhndojpepiihcmeb?hl=en)).
Hopefully itwill give Google an incentive to optimize Chrome though because right now it just eats RAM.
Yeah, RES and my picture viewer are quite annoying to be without. I also can't use the web version of whatsapp on IE for some reason =/
Post by: slip84 on Thu, 30 July 2015, 15:26:08
Google has a page about this: https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/6152583?hl=en
Post by: Ryukuxyz on Thu, 30 July 2015, 20:45:10
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 30 July 2015, 20:49:46
Post by: Ryukuxyz on Thu, 30 July 2015, 20:53:46
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 30 July 2015, 20:59:30
The only reason I'm turning them off is because it forces a restart, and if I'm in the middle of something important and it does it, I'd get pissed. I checked for updates weekly manually back on Win8 anyways, so I won't be too outdated anyways.
I am pretty sure they aren't going to force a restart upon you without notifying you.
Post by: Binge on Thu, 30 July 2015, 21:15:44
The only reason I'm turning them off is because it forces a restart, and if I'm in the middle of something important and it does it, I'd get pissed. I checked for updates weekly manually back on Win8 anyways, so I won't be too outdated anyways.
I am pretty sure they aren't going to force a restart upon you without notifying you.
Oh but it does :3
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 30 July 2015, 21:24:13
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 30 July 2015, 21:31:30
The only reason I'm turning them off is because it forces a restart, and if I'm in the middle of something important and it does it, I'd get pissed. I checked for updates weekly manually back on Win8 anyways, so I won't be too outdated anyways.
I am pretty sure they aren't going to force a restart upon you without notifying you.
Oh but it does :3
What? Just, all of a sudden; restart?
Post by: Binge on Thu, 30 July 2015, 22:00:30
The only reason I'm turning them off is because it forces a restart, and if I'm in the middle of something important and it does it, I'd get pissed. I checked for updates weekly manually back on Win8 anyways, so I won't be too outdated anyways.
I am pretty sure they aren't going to force a restart upon you without notifying you.
Oh but it does :3
What? Just, all of a sudden; restart?
si capitan. I do get a notification, but once it's done installing.... WHOOP restart.
Post by: Ryukuxyz on Thu, 30 July 2015, 22:04:00
The only reason I'm turning them off is because it forces a restart, and if I'm in the middle of something important and it does it, I'd get pissed. I checked for updates weekly manually back on Win8 anyways, so I won't be too outdated anyways.
I am pretty sure they aren't going to force a restart upon you without notifying you.
Oh but it does :3
What? Just, all of a sudden; restart?
si capitan. I do get a notification, but once it's done installing.... WHOOP restart.
Yup, I've been restarted on twice now, already disabled automatic updates. Like I said, it's no big deal, I check once a week anyways, so I won't be missing anything.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 30 July 2015, 22:44:49
Post by: Binge on Thu, 30 July 2015, 22:47:21
Well that's stupid.
There's lots of "wtf" with this OS. Like I said it runs great but.... wtf UI? Common sense settings/admin functions/updates? NON-SENSE!
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 30 July 2015, 22:52:00
Well that's stupid.
Welcome to Microsoft mentality.
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 31 July 2015, 00:29:49
More
Winkey + Tab Activates Task View
Winkey + A Activates Action Center
Winkey + C Activates Cortana with speech>
Winkey + D Shows desktop
Winkey + E Opens File Explorer
Winkey + G Activates the new Xbox game bar to let you record games or take screenshots.
Winkey + H Activates share feature in Windows 10 apps
Winkey + I Opens Windows 10 settings
Winkey + K Activates Connect feature to stream to wireless displays and audio devices
Winkey + L Locks a machine
Winkey + P Project a screen
Winkey + R Run a command
Winkey + S Activates Cortana
Winkey + X Opens power user features
Winkey + Left / Right / Up / Down Snaps apps to the side of a screen (press Up or Down after snapping left / right to enable four apps to snap)
Winkey + Ctrl + D Creates a new virtual desktop
Winkey + Ctrl + F4 Close virtual desktop
Winkey + Ctrl + Left or Right Switch between virtual desktops
Winkey + Shift + Left or Right Move apps from one monitor to another
Winkey + 1 / 2 / 3... Open programs that are pinned on the taskbar. The first app is number one.
Winkey + A Activates Action Center
Winkey + C Activates Cortana with speech>
Winkey + D Shows desktop
Winkey + E Opens File Explorer
Winkey + G Activates the new Xbox game bar to let you record games or take screenshots.
Winkey + H Activates share feature in Windows 10 apps
Winkey + I Opens Windows 10 settings
Winkey + K Activates Connect feature to stream to wireless displays and audio devices
Winkey + L Locks a machine
Winkey + P Project a screen
Winkey + R Run a command
Winkey + S Activates Cortana
Winkey + X Opens power user features
Winkey + Left / Right / Up / Down Snaps apps to the side of a screen (press Up or Down after snapping left / right to enable four apps to snap)
Winkey + Ctrl + D Creates a new virtual desktop
Winkey + Ctrl + F4 Close virtual desktop
Winkey + Ctrl + Left or Right Switch between virtual desktops
Winkey + Shift + Left or Right Move apps from one monitor to another
Winkey + 1 / 2 / 3... Open programs that are pinned on the taskbar. The first app is number one.
Post by: njbair on Fri, 31 July 2015, 00:40:32
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 31 July 2015, 01:08:27
Well that's stupid.
There's lots of "wtf" with this OS. Like I said it runs great but.... wtf UI? Common sense settings/admin functions/updates? NON-SENSE!
I really like the new UI, though I'm still getting used to the new start menu
Post by: Fire Brand on Fri, 31 July 2015, 03:35:32
Yeah I can confirm I had it happen just yesterday was happily playing league of legends mid game, then blam restarting was not impressed :IThe only reason I'm turning them off is because it forces a restart, and if I'm in the middle of something important and it does it, I'd get pissed. I checked for updates weekly manually back on Win8 anyways, so I won't be too outdated anyways.
I am pretty sure they aren't going to force a restart upon you without notifying you.
Oh but it does :3
What? Just, all of a sudden; restart?
Also just updated my Alienware laptop and after a bit of fiddling with the sound drive everything is work fine :)
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Fri, 31 July 2015, 04:45:41
Settings -> Update & Security -> Windows Update -> Advanced Options -> Change it from "Automatic" to "Notify to schedule restart"
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 31 July 2015, 05:33:42
:))
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 31 July 2015, 08:32:53
Does right-clicking the start button still bring up that nice context menu to access admin stuff?yes it does and more.
Post by: fishcola on Fri, 31 July 2015, 10:51:32
Post by: njbair on Fri, 31 July 2015, 11:17:40
Something happened.
:))
[attachimg=1]
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 31 July 2015, 11:20:57
Something happened.
:))
(Attachment Link)
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/IbMMdze.png)
take a guess what didn't happen....
Post by: Ryukuxyz on Fri, 31 July 2015, 11:41:01
I really like the new start menu, it feels more like an actual start menu rather than a weird panels thing.Well that's stupid.
There's lots of "wtf" with this OS. Like I said it runs great but.... wtf UI? Common sense settings/admin functions/updates? NON-SENSE!
I really like the new UI, though I'm still getting used to the new start menu
Post by: Binge on Fri, 31 July 2015, 11:46:34
I really like the new start menu, it feels more like an actual start menu rather than a weird panels thing.Well that's stupid.
There's lots of "wtf" with this OS. Like I said it runs great but.... wtf UI? Common sense settings/admin functions/updates? NON-SENSE!
I really like the new UI, though I'm still getting used to the new start menu
Coming from W7 there isn't much that's improved in the start menu.
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 31 July 2015, 12:36:05
I really like the new start menu, it feels more like an actual start menu rather than a weird panels thing.Well that's stupid.
There's lots of "wtf" with this OS. Like I said it runs great but.... wtf UI? Common sense settings/admin functions/updates? NON-SENSE!
I really like the new UI, though I'm still getting used to the new start menu
Coming from W7 there isn't much that's improved in the start menu.
I kinda know what you mean, but the tiles have a lot of room to grow and add to the start menu, having more info you can quickly glance at while not taking up the desktop is nice.
I also really like the notifications area in the task bar
Post by: Binge on Fri, 31 July 2015, 12:37:55
I really like the new start menu, it feels more like an actual start menu rather than a weird panels thing.Well that's stupid.
There's lots of "wtf" with this OS. Like I said it runs great but.... wtf UI? Common sense settings/admin functions/updates? NON-SENSE!
I really like the new UI, though I'm still getting used to the new start menu
Coming from W7 there isn't much that's improved in the start menu.
I kinda know what you mean, but the tiles have a lot of room to grow and add to the start menu, having more info you can quickly glance at while not taking up the desktop is nice.
I also really like the notifications area in the task bar
Is there a shortcut for notifications? clicking in the lower right of my monitor is sort of a stretch.
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 31 July 2015, 12:41:07
I really like the new start menu, it feels more like an actual start menu rather than a weird panels thing.Well that's stupid.
There's lots of "wtf" with this OS. Like I said it runs great but.... wtf UI? Common sense settings/admin functions/updates? NON-SENSE!
I really like the new UI, though I'm still getting used to the new start menu
Coming from W7 there isn't much that's improved in the start menu.
I kinda know what you mean, but the tiles have a lot of room to grow and add to the start menu, having more info you can quickly glance at while not taking up the desktop is nice.
I also really like the notifications area in the task bar
Is there a shortcut for notifications? clicking in the lower right of my monitor is sort of a stretch.
I've no idea, Kat posted a keyboard shortcut list a page or two back, but I'm just a one screen povo so it's not something I ever thought about haha
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 31 July 2015, 14:41:47
Something happened.
:))
(Attachment Link)
Somebody set up us the bomb.
It was Microsoft.
(http://i.imgur.com/JnZYFn2.png)
Post by: njbair on Fri, 31 July 2015, 15:27:42
Something happened.
:))
(Attachment Link)
Somebody set up us the bomb.
It was Microsoft.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/JnZYFn2.png)
What you say!!!
Seriously though, I finally got Windows 10 installed on my work computer. So far it's not very different from 8. I like having the start menu back. Other than that, I immediately disabled anything Bing-related and moved my tiles back where I wanted them.
My big concern is whether or not this will be a welcome change for my staff who are all still on Win7 and don't want to move off of it.
Post by: Fire Brand on Fri, 31 July 2015, 15:38:46
My big concern is whether or not this will be a welcome change for my staff who are all still on Win7 and don't want to move off of it.
They have no choice ^~^
Also why do you not have the title "It's so bad" Yet? hoff get on this!
Post by: dustinhxc on Fri, 31 July 2015, 15:49:25
Post by: slip84 on Fri, 31 July 2015, 18:01:38
Post by: vyshane on Fri, 31 July 2015, 20:23:36
Post by: njbair on Fri, 31 July 2015, 21:10:05
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 01 August 2015, 00:35:11
Post by: nickheller on Sat, 01 August 2015, 02:14:57
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 01 August 2015, 04:24:35
I miss the charm bar.
said no one ever
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 01 August 2015, 06:10:17
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 01 August 2015, 07:43:21
Something happened.
:))
(Attachment Link)
Actually I was referring to this:
[attachimg=1]
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/something-happened-in-windows-10-media-creator/4a305754-9dd5-4eaf-a030-f76f5de70cba?auth=1
Post by: slip84 on Sat, 01 August 2015, 08:34:28
I miss the charm bar.
said no one ever
:(
the cmd window is kinda hard to read in win10 due to the new fonts
(http://i.imgur.com/T05WKrk.png)
Post by: njbair on Sat, 01 August 2015, 08:35:54
Something happened.
:))
(Attachment Link)
Actually I was referring to this:
(Attachment Link)
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-win_upgrade/something-happened-in-windows-10-media-creator/4a305754-9dd5-4eaf-a030-f76f5de70cba?auth=1
Yeah, I got the reference. Then I went meta.
Post by: slip84 on Sat, 01 August 2015, 08:36:43
Yay.
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Sat, 01 August 2015, 17:09:24
It's really annoying >:D
Virtual desktops don't seem to be working as intended. Chrome tabs sometime refuse to go to a different desktop and once they're there they switch back if you try to move them. Grabbing a window and moving it to the left or right will sometimes move it to a different desktop instead of a different monitor too.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 01 August 2015, 17:47:34
Black background , Grey 66 text.
[attachimg=1]
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 01 August 2015, 17:54:40
One last question can the UI be changed to look like this... my 7 darkness setup
Black background , Grey 66 text.
(Attachment Link)
This only further proves your not a real human
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 01 August 2015, 18:00:19
One last question can the UI be changed to look like this... my 7 darkness setup
Black background , Grey 66 text.
(Attachment Link)
This only further proves your not a real human
Human I R 2..
but, really.. what's wrong with my theme.. I think it is very CLEAN.. I remove all unnecessary information including most flashy colors.
Post by: rpeterclark on Sat, 01 August 2015, 18:11:25
One last question can the UI be changed to look like this... my 7 darkness setup
Black background , Grey 66 text.
(Attachment Link)
This only further proves your not a real human
Human I R 2..
but, really.. what's wrong with my theme.. I think it is very CLEAN.. I remove all unnecessary information including most flashy colors.
So many drives! (What happened to G)?) What could someone need so much space for?! My entire MP3 and video collection would fit on just one of those.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 01 August 2015, 18:13:28
One last question can the UI be changed to look like this... my 7 darkness setup
Black background , Grey 66 text.
(Attachment Link)
This only further proves your not a real human
Human I R 2..
but, really.. what's wrong with my theme.. I think it is very CLEAN.. I remove all unnecessary information including most flashy colors.
So many drives! (What happened to G)?) What could someone need so much space for?! My entire MP3 and video collection would fit on just one of those.
G-Drive is none of your business.. on a need to know basis..
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-005.gif)
Post by: Air tree on Sat, 01 August 2015, 18:24:22
Tp4 stores all his kinky Pornography on the G-drive...It's none of your business because he's afraid of the prejudice involved with letting people glance at this library... :))One last question can the UI be changed to look like this... my 7 darkness setup
Black background , Grey 66 text.
(Attachment Link)
This only further proves your not a real human
Human I R 2..
but, really.. what's wrong with my theme.. I think it is very CLEAN.. I remove all unnecessary information including most flashy colors.
So many drives! (What happened to G)?) What could someone need so much space for?! My entire MP3 and video collection would fit on just one of those.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 01 August 2015, 18:26:13
Tp4 stores all his kinky Pornography on the G-drive...It's none of your business because he's afraid of the prejudice involved with letting people glance at this library... :))
Merely a wild speculation... (http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/tuzki-bunnys/tuzki-bunny-emoticon-041.gif)
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 01 August 2015, 18:50:13
I'm upgrading to 10 right now... hope I don't regret this. I hate change.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 01 August 2015, 19:56:25
Post by: Belfong on Sat, 01 August 2015, 19:58:02
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 01 August 2015, 19:59:43
tp4 isn't human and this lack of a G drive is the proof.
There was a G drive, but tp4 decided to let it out in the open, as a machine he cannot build boards himself but he can give life to components from within him. Thus he decided to give life to one of his drives, the drive he stored many keyboard pictures on, his G drive. This is how the best keyboard ever made came into the world. The ROMER-G.
Post by: o3okevin on Sat, 01 August 2015, 20:07:25
And there's like no space to work with in my computer case lol
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 01 August 2015, 20:15:17
Post by: slip84 on Sat, 01 August 2015, 21:05:34
http://www.tenforums.com/customization/6360-setting-different-backgrounds-dual-monitors-windows-10-a.html
Post by: njbair on Sat, 01 August 2015, 21:20:31
Has anyone found a way to set certain images to one moniter and another set to the other moniter. The reason I ask is because I have one in portrait and the other in landscape.
I tried the "coding monitor" once. Not a fan.
Post by: Sifo on Sat, 01 August 2015, 21:52:51
Post by: njbair on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:18:02
installed it, immediately noped and now I'm restoring win 7. they dumbed everything down and everything is so in your face easy access bull****...
You'd better get used to it. This one is going to stick, like it or not.
See, Windows releases follow a simple pattern: good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, ad infinitum:
Windows 3.1: Good
Windows 95: Bad
Windows 98: Good
Windows ME: Bad
Windows XP: Good
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad
Windows 10: TBD
Although...wait. They skipped 9.
WHAT IF 9 WAS THE GOOD ONE?
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:20:49
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:21:35
2. The reason win9 was skipped was because of backend issues with naming another windows with a 9. Or at least so I've heard.
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:24:02
1. That list is so totally inaccurate that even the meme has changed to how inaccurate it is.
2. The reason win9 was skipped was because of backend issues with naming another windows with a 9. Or at least so I've heard.
Yeah that's what I've heard too.
Though, when the driver issues were sorted by the 3rd parties Vista was actually a good OS. Networking is a bit of a hassle compared with 7 but other than that it's an improvement over XP, the problem was that it was different, a bit heavier and initially had poor driver compatibility which was only because XP was around for so ****ing long.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:26:41
What about Windows 2000?
I skipped the NT releases because it was an entirely different product line until XP re-unified the kernel.
1. That list is so totally inaccurate that even the meme has changed to how inaccurate it is.
2. The reason win9 was skipped was because of backend issues with naming another windows with a 9. Or at least so I've heard.
Is there a meme for this? This has been my working theory since Vista came out and flopped.
Re: the 9, you are correct (http://www.businessinsider.com/windows-10-not-windows-9-2014-10).
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 01 August 2015, 22:29:06
What about Windows 2000?
I skipped the NT releases because it was an entirely different product line until XP re-unified the kernel.1. That list is so totally inaccurate that even the meme has changed to how inaccurate it is.
2. The reason win9 was skipped was because of backend issues with naming another windows with a 9. Or at least so I've heard.
Is there a meme for this? This has been my working theory since Vista came out and flopped.
Re: the 9, you are correct (http://www.businessinsider.com/windows-10-not-windows-9-2014-10).
Vista didn't flop, it just had a poor launch; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista#Sales
Post by: njbair on Sat, 01 August 2015, 23:28:12
Windows 3.1 was an incremental release over 3.0, not particularly innovative.
Windows 95 was very innovative: 32-bit kernel, non-DOS disk management, and of course the GUI. The problems were stability, and I particularly remember plug-and-play not actually being very plug-and-play. Kids probably don't realize what a pain installing drivers was before the Internet and Windows Update.
Windows 98 was incremental. USB support was added, and the only real innovation was Active Desktop, which was meh.
Windows ME, while not necessarily an innovative release, sucked due to attempted innovation--this version was supposed to be the one to unify the consumer and business markets by using the NT kernel. When it became clear this was not going to happen, ME was rushed out the door as a buggy disaster.
Windows XP seems like it was very innovative, but it was really mostly just a re-skinned Windows 2000. In this sense it only seemed innovative because it brought NT features to the consumer market for the first time.
Windows Vista was once again the product of failed innovation, namely the WinFS filesystem. AFAIK WinFS never actually came to be, and even Windows 7 still uses NTFS. I think 8 switched to something else more modern, but it's not WinFS or anything like WinFS was supposed to be. The other major innovation here, and the source of a lot of complaints, was the overbearing sandboxing/elevated privileges functionality. This was a really good thing for security, but users hated it because it was implemented poorly. Vista also was a victim of circumstance: as with all other Windows versions, Microsoft presumed upon higher hardware specs. That's when netbooks happened, and Vista ran like a dog on those things.
Windows 7 was great. It was everything good about Vista with none of the bad. But as far as innovation, it was little more than a fixed version of Vista.
Windows 8 was the poster child of innovation. Only problem was, people hated it.
Windows 10 seems to be a Windows 7 redux, but with a Metro UI. I suppose there are some attempts at innovation here, but I either opted out of them or disabled them shortly after installation. Incremental.
So, as you can see, Microsoft has good ideas, but they execute them poorly. The key is to buy the flip versions and avoid the flop versions.
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 02 August 2015, 01:52:01
Does anyone know if there's a way to stop the mouse from sticking to the edge of the screen when moving a window between monitors and still have the window snapping enabled?Here's the trick, it only sticks near the top of the screen, drop down a tad and it will slide right across seamlessly. While it may stink to fight that, at least you can split screen now, which you couldn't before.
It's really annoying >:D
Virtual desktops don't seem to be working as intended. Chrome tabs sometime refuse to go to a different desktop and once they're there they switch back if you try to move them. Grabbing a window and moving it to the left or right will sometimes move it to a different desktop instead of a different monitor too.
I don't use Chrome or Virtual Desktops, so no help there.
One last question can the UI be changed to look like this... my 7 darkness setupThere is a secret dark Win10 theme you can enable with a registry hack that is sort of similar.
Black background , Grey 66 text.
(Attachment Link)
Vista didn't flop, it just had a poor launch; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista#SalesIt's adoption rate was slower but you could mark that up to recently upgraded XP machines, or simply longer lasting computers, but when you have a near perfect monopoly on something people need, your product will sell, good or bad.
And you could make it run decent, it just took a lot of computing power. An average modern computer runs it perfectly fine, problem is, for back then, that was really high end.
1. That list is so totally inaccurate that even the meme has changed to how inaccurate it is.That's never really been confirmed by MS, it's only speculation. It's a logical reason though, but then, so is making it 10 to compete name-wise with OSX. YOu may say it's dumb, but it's not the first time the software industry has resorted to this sort of thing.
2. The reason win9 was skipped was because of backend issues with naming another windows with a 9. Or at least so I've heard.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 02 August 2015, 02:36:23
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Sun, 02 August 2015, 07:00:49
The mouse stops at the edge of the monitors no matter how high up or low down it is. The only way to make it not stop is to move it fast.Does anyone know if there's a way to stop the mouse from sticking to the edge of the screen when moving a window between monitors and still have the window snapping enabled?Here's the trick, it only sticks near the top of the screen, drop down a tad and it will slide right across seamlessly. While it may stink to fight that, at least you can split screen now, which you couldn't before.
It's really annoying >:D
Virtual desktops don't seem to be working as intended. Chrome tabs sometime refuse to go to a different desktop and once they're there they switch back if you try to move them. Grabbing a window and moving it to the left or right will sometimes move it to a different desktop instead of a different monitor too.
Has anyone found a way to set certain images to one moniter and another set to the other moniter. The reason I ask is because I have one in portrait and the other in landscape.(http://puu.sh/jmrLF/f39a152727.jpg)
I use DisplayFusion.
I got the Pro version on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/227260/) when it was on sale for like €7 but the free version (http://www.displayfusion.com/Compare/) should do the trick.
Post by: slip84 on Sun, 02 August 2015, 09:10:00
installed it, immediately noped and now I'm restoring win 7. they dumbed everything down and everything is so in your face easy access bull****...
You'd better get used to it. This one is going to stick, like it or not.
See, Windows releases follow a simple pattern: good, bad, good, bad, good, bad, ad infinitum:
Windows 3.1: Good
Windows 95: Bad
Windows 98: Good
Windows ME: Bad
Windows XP: Good
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad
Windows 10: TBD
Although...wait. They skipped 9.
WHAT IF 9 WAS THE GOOD ONE?
Yeah, my list would read like this:
DOS - Just fine
Windows 95 - Just fine
Windows 98 - Just fine
Windows 98 SE - Just fine
Windows 2000 - Just fine
Windows XP - Just fine
Windows Vista - Just fine
Windows 7 - Just fine
Windows 8 - Just fine
Windows 8.1 - Just fine
Windows 10 - Just fine
People who hate on an OS for no really firm reason are... interesting in my opinion. I never had Windows ME, but I did have a girlfriend who had it on her machine and it was fine. It had some dopey issues sometimes, but at the end of the day, it worked perfectly fine. I have never had a Windows OS really keep me from doing anything and I have jumped on the "next best thing" fairly fast. I installed Windows 10 on release with no fear of any issues. So far, all I need to do is a clean install of my video card drivers because one game is having issues with PhysX. That's it. In place upgrade and everything seems perfectly fine.
What was particularly bad about 95, ME, Vista, or 8? Can you just define that for me at some level? The only "bad" OS I ever used was the initial release of OS X. It had some legit issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_10.0#Criticism_and_Problems
But even that was laying the base for a pretty amazing generation of operating systems for the next 14 years and beyond.
Post by: demik on Sun, 02 August 2015, 10:25:46
G drive is where the cheese pizza's at
Ha
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 02 August 2015, 11:41:18
People who hate on an OS for no really firm reason are... interesting in my opinion. I never had Windows ME, but I did have a girlfriend who had it on her machine and it was fine. It had some dopey issues sometimes, but at the end of the day, it worked perfectly fine. I have never had a Windows OS really keep me from doing anything and I have jumped on the "next best thing" fairly fast. I installed Windows 10 on release with no fear of any issues. So far, all I need to do is a clean install of my video card drivers because one game is having issues with PhysX. That's it. In place upgrade and everything seems perfectly fine.
What was particularly bad about 95, ME, Vista, or 8? Can you just define that for me at some level? The only "bad" OS I ever used was the initial release of OS X. It had some legit issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_10.0#Criticism_and_Problems
But even that was laying the base for a pretty amazing generation of operating systems for the next 14 years and beyond.
95 was somewhat before my time (the first machine I can recall using had Win98), and I never had the opportunity to use ME.
I did play with three different machines with Vista. Two provided a negative experience, and one was pretty good. The first machine was a HTPC upgraded from XP very near the launch date. In theory it should have met the specs needed for the OS, and it should have managed just fine, but in reality it had a lot of stability problems and it was soon reverted to XP. After SP1 was released, I had an opportunity to play with a few more machines with Vista. One was a laptop barely a step above a netbook. It was stable, but it didn't really have enough memory to do the kind of tasks I wanted to do with it. That's probably my machine that's hopped between the most different operating systems. It went back to XP briefly, but I've also used it with two different versions of Ubuntu, Linux Mint (it also had trouble handling Cinnamon), and right now it's on #!. The third machine I used was a much better experience. It was a prebuilt desktop that came with vista, but it could handle it just fine. I never had any trouble with that machine.
Windows 8 (8.1, really) I still have on a laptop, and I use it, albeit infrequently. I have a couple of complaints about win8 -- although I recognize that they may not be issues for most people, they do represent issues for my workflow. I feel that the start screen takes up far too much real estate for the functionality it provides. I want to be able to hit start, enter a search term, and wait for the search to complete without it taking up my whole screen. In Win7, the start menu took up much less space, and I could keep reading a news article or forum post while I was waiting for the search to complete. This issue can be somewhat mitigated with multiple monitors. I also find myself inadvertently switching to background full screen apps (mostly when I'm borrowing someone else's computer -- I don't use the apps myself). Back before the 8.1 release, I remember getting caught in the charms bar frequently. I'm not sure if something was changed for 8.1 or if I just got better at avoiding it.
I don't really think win8 is bad in any objective sense, I just feel that it was less functional for me than some of the other releases. Vista I do think was bad, at least until SP1 cleaned things up a bit.
Post by: nickheller on Sun, 02 August 2015, 11:47:21
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 02 August 2015, 11:49:11
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 02 August 2015, 11:51:01
I am not really a fan of the start menu in Windows 10, I was using 8.1 before and had one of the programs that added a windows 7 style start menu. I very much prefer that to the version in windows 10, I am not a fan of the live tiles at all. I do not see why they are needed, seems to just take up space to me.
You can right click and manually remove them all, then drag the start menu slimmer.
Post by: nickheller on Sun, 02 August 2015, 11:57:54
I suppose I can, that still does not really make it perfect for me, but I can adapt I guess. Thanks for the tip.I am not really a fan of the start menu in Windows 10, I was using 8.1 before and had one of the programs that added a windows 7 style start menu. I very much prefer that to the version in windows 10, I am not a fan of the live tiles at all. I do not see why they are needed, seems to just take up space to me.
You can right click and manually remove them all, then drag the start menu slimmer.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 02 August 2015, 12:51:39
One last question can the UI be changed to look like this... my 7 darkness setupThere is a secret dark Win10 theme you can enable with a registry hack that is sort of similar.
Black background , Grey 66 text.
(Attachment Link)
Does it allow you to change the text color to Grey...
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:19:25
People who hate on an OS for no really firm reason are... interesting in my opinion. I never had Windows ME, but I did have a girlfriend who had it on her machine and it was fine. It had some dopey issues sometimes, but at the end of the day, it worked perfectly fine. I have never had a Windows OS really keep me from doing anything and I have jumped on the "next best thing" fairly fast. I installed Windows 10 on release with no fear of any issues. So far, all I need to do is a clean install of my video card drivers because one game is having issues with PhysX. That's it. In place upgrade and everything seems perfectly fine.95 took a LOT of memory for the time to run correct.
What was particularly bad about 95, ME, Vista, or 8? Can you just define that for me at some level? The only "bad" OS I ever used was the initial release of OS X. It had some legit issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_10.0#Criticism_and_Problems
But even that was laying the base for a pretty amazing generation of operating systems for the next 14 years and beyond.
This was a problem because in those days, the cpu was king, no one was espousing the benefits of doubling your memory, even today, people take memory for granted compared to cpu. I had what was considered at the time one of the most powerful systems you could buy, and certainly one of the best on the military base I was at when a person with 1/3rd the computing power ran rings around me with a bit extra ram. I went out the next week and quadrupled my memory and proceeded to lay waste to everything. I've been using twice the industry average ever since. Other than that, people hated it because compared to Win3.11 it was slow and a massive departure. Once you beefed the system and adjusted, it was good, almost as good as 98, it's just that most people never used 95 on a system properly built for it.
Windows ME is in some ways misrepresented, I will give you that, but not without merit. ME got a reputation partly because of some poor design decisions MS made, sort of like Win8 (not 8.1), but also for stability reasons. Given junk hardware, 98se and ME ran about the same, they crashed, but that was normal back then on Windows, and was a part of life. Those who ran Mac, OS2, BE and Linux knew better, Windows users didn't. The problem came in though when you built a really good system. On a well built system (and an UPS), 98se could almost match XP for stability in the earlier days of XP. Which in the days of Win98, that was fantastic. When you put ME on that same hardware, you became no more stable than a junk system.
Vista was a disaster.
Vista had massive development problems, which lead to rushing it at the end. It was re-written a few times, it was late, finally they just shoved it out the door. SP1 fixed a lot of issues, but not the performance ones, but what it couldn't fix was what MS and pc manufacturers did with after. It was bad for some of the same reasons 95 was bad. When Vista came out, it had huge hardware requirements for the time (which MS understated). HP and (I think) Dell had already invested money on their Vista systems, and they were under powered for even what MS was calling for, so instead of losing money, they convinced MS to scale back the hardware requirements even further to something closer to their current XP machines at the time. This allowed them to sell drastically underpowered machines to people making Vista look like a dog.
If you put enough processor and memory in a Vista box, it can run well, however, it takes almost modern hardware to do so. Back then, to make Vista run well required a $1200-$1500 computer (a good dual core, and 4+gigs of ram), at a time when HP and Dell were selling $400 computers and good ones were around $800-900. Would you spend $1200 just to get a decent computer today? The public wasn't having it, manufacturers knew it, so they just limped along hoping 7 would save them (kid of what they did with 8).
Win8 was just poor decision making on MS' part.
They tried using it to leverage their way into tablet sales, a good strategy, but a poorly executed one.
Why? Because a tablet OS intended for a 10in screen doesn't work when blown up onto dual 25in monitors without scaling.
They did a study that showed start menu usage was down 10% on a downward trend and decided they didn't need it. What they failed to see was that people used it as a sub menu to augment their pinned items and desktop icons, a place to shove programs you use less often. That doesn't mean you don't need it or use it, you just use it less, which is actually a good thing, workflow had hit it's stride. While the start menu was no longer the primary focus of the OS, it was still a much needed part, and when I do need it, I certainly don't need it taking over my desktop. It's disjointing and ruins my workflow. 8.1 is better, but it's a bandaid fix, it's still a tablet centric OS shoved onto a desktop. In the end, MS annoyed a lot of people, barely made a scratch in the tablet market, and sold a lot of computers for Apple.
How to tell if an MS OS is a dud, look at how soon they start talking about the next OS.
With ME, they admitted it was a holdover until XP shipped (win2k was supposed to be XP). With XP, they held off new OS talk for quite a while. With Vista, they started talking about 7 before Vista launched. It was months after 7's launch they really started discussing 8. With Win8, they started talking about Windows 9 and 10 months before launch. In other words, they knew it was such a disaster, they were working on marketing the next one before they even finished making the current one. With Win10, they are not only talking about no new OS, only updates, but stating it in advance that they have no other plans, meaning they are very confident in Win10.
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:23:37
Does it allow you to change the text color to Grey...
I don't know, I saw it quickly and kept moving. I would imagine, since you can alter colors.
The mouse stops at the edge of the monitors no matter how high up or low down it is. The only way to make it not stop is to move it fast.You're right it does, it's speed that make sit slide without sticking.
I think once you adjust it won't be as much of an issue. I've dealt with sticky edges like that before, and really never found a good answer. The last one I used tried to stick no matter where or how fast you moved.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:29:17
What was particularly bad about 95, ME, Vista, or 8? Can you just define that for me at some level?
I actually already did, right after the post you quoted. Scroll up or click here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73737.msg1818013#msg1818013
Post by: slip84 on Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:35:58
I guess I've mostly lucked out with Windows operating system releases. My 95 box was by no means a beast, but I remember great times on the machine. It was the first computer I experienced MP3s on and the first machine that had a 3D accelerator. At the end of the day, however, it was a just a Pentium 133 MHz box with 16 MB of RAM. My first video card had as much memory as the system I put it in. Pretty funny looking back on it.
Windows 98 SE was on my AMD K6-II with 128 MB of RAM and a 32 MB TNT2 and it ran gloriously. I played the absolute living **** out of Unreal Tournament and Quake III on that box with nary an issue. I remember dropping another 128 MB of RAM in the box and upgrading to a Voodoo 3 toward the end of the cycles with the machine. It was amazing. My brother and I wound up overclocking the K6-II, but never got it stable much over the 400 MHz stock speed.
The Vista box I built was a Intel Q6600 with 4 GB of RAM and an 8800GT, so I guess I never experienced any of the hardware woes people slinging 512 MB of RAM and a Celeron at Vista had. I worked at Best Buy during the release of Vista and spent an amazing amount of time trying to convince people that spending an extra $100 would really give them a much better experience. People are dumb.
My Windows 8 experience was pretty short-lived. I bought a refurb Surface Pro a few months before the Windows 8.1 release. I didn't use it extensively, but it was my travel machine for work and I never had any show-stopping issues. I used the Surface Pro as a laptop, effectively, so I never leaned on the tablet interface of Windows 8 much at all. That said, Windows 8.1 was a welcome refresh and really polished up the UI, which I thought was one of the better Microsoft has put forward since Windows XP.
Either way, people are going to complain. I welcome change and accept a bit of failure along with forward momentum. I get that people like security blankets when it comes to operating systems, though. And to that point, I hope that Windows 7 stays secure in the way that Windows XP (mostly) did for so long. I see a lot of people hovering back to it. For me, however, I prefer to jump in feet first.
Post by: njbair on Sun, 02 August 2015, 19:49:43
Well reasoned! Thanks for the response. Honestly.
I guess I've mostly lucked out with Windows operating system releases. My 95 box was by no means a beast, but I remember great times on the machine. It was the first computer I experienced MP3s on and the first machine that had a 3D accelerator. At the end of the day, however, it was a just a Pentium 133 MHz box with 16 MB of RAM. My first video card had as much memory as the system I put it in. Pretty funny looking back on it.
Windows 98 SE was on my AMD K6-II with 128 MB of RAM and a 32 MB TNT2 and it ran gloriously. I played the absolute living **** out of Unreal Tournament and Quake III on that box with nary an issue. I remember dropping another 128 MB of RAM in the box and upgrading to a Voodoo 3 toward the end of the cycles with the machine. It was amazing. My brother and I wound up overclocking the K6-II, but never got it stable much over the 400 MHz stock speed.
The Vista box I built was a Intel Q6600 with 4 GB of RAM and an 8800GT, so I guess I never experienced any of the hardware woes people slinging 512 MB of RAM and a Celeron at Vista had. I worked at Best Buy during the release of Vista and spent an amazing amount of time trying to convince people that spending an extra $100 would really give them a much better experience. People are dumb.
My Windows 8 experience was pretty short-lived. I bought a refurb Surface Pro a few months before the Windows 8.1 release. I didn't use it extensively, but it was my travel machine for work and I never had any show-stopping issues. I used the Surface Pro as a laptop, effectively, so I never leaned on the tablet interface of Windows 8 much at all. That said, Windows 8.1 was a welcome refresh and really polished up the UI, which I thought was one of the better Microsoft has put forward since Windows XP.
Either way, people are going to complain. I welcome change and accept a bit of failure along with forward momentum. I get that people like security blankets when it comes to operating systems, though. And to that point, I hope that Windows 7 stays secure in the way that Windows XP (mostly) did for so long. I see a lot of people hovering back to it. For me, however, I prefer to jump in feet first.
My good/bad evaluation wasn't really complaining--there's no use in complaining about a 20-year-old OS. More of a retrospective.
I personally never owned a Vista computer, but I supported several staff members with it. Honestly, I liked Vista because of the modern permissions system. Lots fewer spyware infections to worry about. But it was resource-heavy and a lot of users had bad experiences with it. Say what you will about its sales numbers, but MS swept it under the rug and released 7 pretty quickly. Same with ME and 8. It's just the flip-flop curse.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 02 August 2015, 22:19:56
Post by: njbair on Sun, 02 August 2015, 22:36:54
Sometimes it seems like people just shouldn't upgrade OS; if you don't want anything to change just...don't upgrade the OS?
To a degree...but I would have advised anyone to upgrade to Vista and deal with the changes. Security is more important than personal preference.
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 02 August 2015, 23:05:22
Sometimes it seems like people just shouldn't upgrade OS; if you don't want anything to change just...don't upgrade the OS?
To a degree...but I would have advised anyone to upgrade to Vista and deal with the changes. Security is more important than personal preference.
Even if the changes involve frequent crashes and don't allow you to use the machine? Even a perfectly secure machine is useless if you can't make it do what it's supposed to.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 02 August 2015, 23:08:19
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 02 August 2015, 23:12:02
Sometimes it seems like people just shouldn't upgrade OS; if you don't want anything to change just...don't upgrade the OS?
To a degree...but I would have advised anyone to upgrade to Vista and deal with the changes. Security is more important than personal preference.
IMHO MS closing many of the system hooks that were security risks was an advantage of vista. Unfortunately many badly coded program dlls and drivers used those same hooks that were closed. Which cause so much user angst against MS. Haha.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 03 August 2015, 01:43:21
Sometimes it seems like people just shouldn't upgrade OS; if you don't want anything to change just...don't upgrade the OS?
100% agree!
And it's why I didn't upgrade from 7 to 8
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 03 August 2015, 08:33:22
I understand that "the Cloud" and subscription products like Office365 are the moneymakers of the future, and that a free OS is probably the best way to keep customers in the Microsoft ecosystem, but it still seems "too good to be true" so I can't help but think that it isn't.
Have any of you seen definitive official statements that you could point me to?
Thanks!
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 03 August 2015, 08:41:19
So, help clarify if I'm wrong, but it seems uncharacteristically magnanimous of Microsoft to give away its Operating System, which was its only product for the first several years. Are they really rewarding us "faithful" previous consumers with a permanent free operating system and upgrades, for the foreseeable future? Have they actually said that they will not start charging subscription fees after some months or years?
I understand that "the Cloud" and subscription products like Office365 are the moneymakers of the future, and that a free OS is probably the best way to keep customers in the Microsoft ecosystem, but it still seems "too good to be true" so I can't help but think that it isn't.
Have any of you seen definitive official statements that you could point me to?
Thanks!
I don't have links, but for the time being the OS is a free upgrade to those on 7 and 8, I imagine as an incentive for those who switched to a new OS not so long ago to upgrade so that everyone is on the same OS. This is because it's cheaper and easier to support one OS as opposed to three (or four) and they have there own store on 10 that they take a cut from.
Post by: Altis on Mon, 03 August 2015, 09:42:10
So, help clarify if I'm wrong, but it seems uncharacteristically magnanimous of Microsoft to give away its Operating System, which was its only product for the first several years. Are they really rewarding us "faithful" previous consumers with a permanent free operating system and upgrades, for the foreseeable future? Have they actually said that they will not start charging subscription fees after some months or years?
I understand that "the Cloud" and subscription products like Office365 are the moneymakers of the future, and that a free OS is probably the best way to keep customers in the Microsoft ecosystem, but it still seems "too good to be true" so I can't help but think that it isn't.
Have any of you seen definitive official statements that you could point me to?
Thanks!
I don't have links, but for the time being the OS is a free upgrade to those on 7 and 8, I imagine as an incentive for those who switched to a new OS not so long ago to upgrade so that everyone is on the same OS. This is because it's cheaper and easier to support one OS as opposed to three (or four) and they have there own store on 10 that they take a cut from.
In addition to both of your points, there's also the fact that Windows 10 seems to collect a great deal more information from your use. It seems pretty common for "free" to often mean that your information is the cost. // Tinfoil hat
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 03 August 2015, 09:43:31
So, help clarify if I'm wrong, but it seems uncharacteristically magnanimous of Microsoft to give away its Operating System, which was its only product for the first several years. Are they really rewarding us "faithful" previous consumers with a permanent free operating system and upgrades, for the foreseeable future? Have they actually said that they will not start charging subscription fees after some months or years?
I understand that "the Cloud" and subscription products like Office365 are the moneymakers of the future, and that a free OS is probably the best way to keep customers in the Microsoft ecosystem, but it still seems "too good to be true" so I can't help but think that it isn't.
Have any of you seen definitive official statements that you could point me to?
Thanks!
I don't have links, but for the time being the OS is a free upgrade to those on 7 and 8, I imagine as an incentive for those who switched to a new OS not so long ago to upgrade so that everyone is on the same OS. This is because it's cheaper and easier to support one OS as opposed to three (or four) and they have there own store on 10 that they take a cut from.
In addition to both of your points, there's also the fact that Windows 10 seems to collect a great deal more information from your use. It seems pretty common for "free" to often mean that your information is the cost. // Tinfoil hat
Your not wrong, though I doubt this will actually ever impact you.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 03 August 2015, 10:46:11
It seems pretty common for "free" to often mean that your information is the cost.
There is always that.
Who was it who said: "If you are not paying for the commodity, then you are the commodity."?
Post by: PunksDead on Mon, 03 August 2015, 10:52:49
i will not be upgrading to 10, if im having issues just paying for my office 365 sub off my paypal, i cant imagine the nightmares of calling for a real problem
Post by: njbair on Mon, 03 August 2015, 12:16:02
So, help clarify if I'm wrong, but it seems uncharacteristically magnanimous of Microsoft to give away its Operating System, which was its only product for the first several years. Are they really rewarding us "faithful" previous consumers with a permanent free operating system and upgrades, for the foreseeable future? Have they actually said that they will not start charging subscription fees after some months or years?
I understand that "the Cloud" and subscription products like Office365 are the moneymakers of the future, and that a free OS is probably the best way to keep customers in the Microsoft ecosystem, but it still seems "too good to be true" so I can't help but think that it isn't.
Have any of you seen definitive official statements that you could point me to?
Thanks!
I had read a hanful of articles within the past few years where industry analysts said Microsoft's smartest move is to start giving away Windows. I remember thinking that would never happen, but it seems I was wrong.
I don't think we fully realize how valuable the user base is to Microsoft, even if they haven't fully actualized its potential. It's kind of how startups like Twitter were making huge stock gains without ever being profitable. That almost doesn't matter anymore--that will be the next CEO's job.
Regarding the idea that MS might turn around and start charging a subscription, there's actually nothing that prevented them from doing that with the previous releases. Unless there's something buried in the Windows 10 EULA that hasn't been discovered yet.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 03 August 2015, 12:17:14
So, help clarify if I'm wrong, but it seems uncharacteristically magnanimous of Microsoft to give away its Operating System, which was its only product for the first several years. Are they really rewarding us "faithful" previous consumers with a permanent free operating system and upgrades, for the foreseeable future? Have they actually said that they will not start charging subscription fees after some months or years?
I understand that "the Cloud" and subscription products like Office365 are the moneymakers of the future, and that a free OS is probably the best way to keep customers in the Microsoft ecosystem, but it still seems "too good to be true" so I can't help but think that it isn't.
Have any of you seen definitive official statements that you could point me to?
Thanks!
I had read a hanful of articles within the past few years where industry analysts said Microsoft's smartest move is to start giving away Windows. I remember thinking that would never happen, but it seems I was wrong.
I don't think we fully realize how valuable the user base is to Microsoft, even if they haven't fully actualized its potential. It's kind of how startups like Twitter were making huge stock gains without ever being profitable. That almost doesn't matter anymore--that will be the next CEO's job.
Regarding the idea that MS might turn around and start charging a subscription, there's actually nothing that prevented them from doing that with the previous releases. Unless there's something buried in the Windows 10 EULA that hasn't been discovered yet.
If you had to pay a subscription to use the 'next' Windows, no one would ever buy it.
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 04 August 2015, 05:13:19
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 04 August 2015, 05:15:17
Win10 has been monetized in various other ways.
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
wut? how are those too even related?
Post by: Fire Brand on Tue, 04 August 2015, 05:22:50
Also to add you can quite easily move windows licences now anyway as even OEM ones can be deactivated on new systems after 8 and again thand same with office.Win10 has been monetized in various other ways.
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
wut? how are those too even related?
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 04 August 2015, 05:28:23
Win10 has been monetized in various other ways.
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
Solitaire is free, but you get ads.
You need to pay a subscription to remove the ads.
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 04 August 2015, 05:49:33
Also to add you can quite easily move windows licences now anyway as even OEM ones can be deactivated on new systems after 8 and again thand same with office.Win10 has been monetized in various other ways.wut? how are those too even related?
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
While it seems simple enough, and moving from Word to Writer is easy, ask an office using Outlook with calendar integration to switch to Google Calendar and see what happens.
As for moving licenses, that depends on the license. If you have a retail copy, yes, you can move it. If you have an OEM license, it may be married to the motherboard bios and will not be transferable. This is becoming more and more common with EUFI and secure boot. However, OEM licenses that come pre-installed are considered are single use, so even if you could, it would be illegal. You can however buy an OEM license for about 1/2 price, and that could possibly be transferred, but may require a call to MS to activate it each time you move it.
Considering how many simply buy a new computer, and the fact that MS can make 4x as much on retail copies, they still make plenty.
True, either way, they still get paid.Win10 has been monetized in various other ways.
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
Solitaire is free, but you get ads.
You need to pay a subscription to remove the ads.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 04 August 2015, 05:53:12
For a home user you can use Office on lots of OS's hell even iOS...
Post by: Fire Brand on Tue, 04 August 2015, 05:55:47
Ohh when I say OEM I mean what used to be the cheap system builder licences those can be moved unlike before where they where locked.Also to add you can quite easily move windows licences now anyway as even OEM ones can be deactivated on new systems after 8 and again thand same with office.Win10 has been monetized in various other ways.wut? how are those too even related?
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
While it seems simple enough, and moving from Word to Writer is easy, ask an office using Outlook with calendar integration to switch to Google Calendar and see what happens.
As for moving licenses, that depends on the license. If you have a retail copy, yes, you can move it. If you have an OEM license, it may be married to the motherboard bios and will not be transferable. This is becoming more and more common with EUFI and secure boot. However, OEM licenses that come pre-installed are considered are single use, so even if you could, it would be illegal. You can however buy an OEM license for about 1/2 price, and that could possibly be transferred, but may require a call to MS to activate it each time you move it.
Considering how many simply buy a new computer, and the fact that MS can make 4x as much on retail copies, they still make plenty.True, either way, they still get paid.Win10 has been monetized in various other ways.
Solitaire is no longer free, there is also the Windows store and they are also doing Office subscriptions.
You also forget how Microsoft locks you in. Once you use Office and Windows, it's hard to leave and they know you will have to replace that computer at some point.
Solitaire is free, but you get ads.
You need to pay a subscription to remove the ads.
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 04 August 2015, 17:49:09
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 04 August 2015, 17:50:29
My PC keeps turning itself on...
did you turn off the auto updates thing?
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 04 August 2015, 17:58:33
My PC keeps turning itself on...
did you turn off the auto updates thing?
I forgot... :(
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 05 August 2015, 23:23:58
Why ask an office, what office is even considering moving to Windows 8, let alone 10?
Offices need new computers at some point, and when they do, odds are it will be 10. It's not like stores keep an inventory of current computers running older operating systems.
Post by: Touch_It on Wed, 05 August 2015, 23:55:52
Post by: njbair on Thu, 06 August 2015, 07:58:59
My office is considering windows 10. At least for laptops. We also have some windows 8 servers. Currently most everything is on 7. Side note, I'm excited I will be getting a new work laptop soon. I know it will have an Core i7 and a Samsung 540 Evo ssd and 12-16 of ram. We are on a 3 year computer replacement cycle. I'm half hoping I can "opt" into a win 10 test phase. I like windows 10 so far. My only issue is not being able to hit the windows key while in a game. Idk yet if it's keyboard remapping software or not.
Isn't this a good thing for gamers so that it doesn't toss you out of your fullscreen game to show the start menu? Accidental winkey presses are behind some of the greatest tragedies in gaming history.
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 06 August 2015, 08:12:08
Post by: Lord of Narwhals on Thu, 06 August 2015, 08:21:07
who the hell plays in fullscreened mode anymore? Hello Fullscreen windowless boarderIt's different depending on the game but there always seems to be more input lag in windowed than in fullscreen.
Post by: njbair on Thu, 06 August 2015, 08:30:15
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 06 August 2015, 08:30:28
who the hell plays in fullscreened mode anymore? Hello Fullscreen windowless boarderIt's different depending on the game but there always seems to be more input lag in windowed than in fullscreen.
Never encountered that
Post by: keshley on Thu, 06 August 2015, 09:08:27
Both my desktops are SLI (980s in one, 670s in the other). Had to go through the same hoops to get the drivers loaded properly, but on my 670 setup, the drivers only installed for one card. No SLI, etc. I had to manually go in and install the driver for that card. Just odd.
My Start Menu was empty yesterday after I rebooted for a driver update. Another reboot fixed it. I am so used to just typing out whatever app I wanted to launch due to crappy Win 8 tiles interface, it wasn't that big a deal, we'll see if it happens again.
Other than that, its been pretty smooth. Fixed my bizarre focus issue I was having in 8.1 as well; something was grabbing focus while gaming, alt-tabbing me out. But it was so inconsistent, I never managed to get a procmon when it happened to figure out what it was.
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 15 August 2015, 15:39:38
WTF.
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 15 August 2015, 17:39:05
My PC has turned itself on twice in the last 2 days and I have the automatic updates turned off.With Win10?
WTF.
It re-enables itself after a time, even with Enterprise and Pro, they can only defer them.
However, it can be killed.
The easiest way to kill updates is to disable Windows Update Service, which also disables Cortana and the Windows store. Even if you try running an update it will error out with this method. Not sure if this works on Home, but does on Enterprise and Pro.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 16 August 2015, 02:06:09
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 16 August 2015, 02:40:16
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html
Isn't that like a Microsoft fanboy site making a list of why Mac OSX sucks? Lol
Also sleep mode has some problems, every time I put my PC to sleep I come back from work to see it awake, I googled around and there is a cmd line you can type out and see what device is waking it up, it's my audio driver... And I've no real idea how to stop it from waking up my machine... So for the moment sleep mode isn't useable, which is kinda lame. It also wakes from sleep mode and auto logs me in :/
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 16 August 2015, 02:43:45
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html
Isn't that like a Microsoft fanboy site making a list of why Mac OSX sucks? Lol
Also sleep mode has some problems, every time I put my PC to sleep I come back from work to see it awake, I googled around and there is a cmd line you can type out and see what device is waking it up, it's my audio driver... And I've no real idea how to stop it from waking up my machine... So for the moment sleep mode isn't useable, which is kinda lame. It also wakes from sleep mode and auto logs me in :/
That guy has a longer page of things wrong with Linux btw, he is not just bashing Windows.
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 16 August 2015, 02:46:22
Things wrong with Linux distributions;
1. Everything
That's all I can think off
:D
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 16 August 2015, 03:55:17
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 16 August 2015, 04:44:10
Tbh tho the list of things wrong with Linux is pretty short:
Things wrong with Linux distributions;
1. Everything
That's all I can think off
:D
Ahahahaha.
Very droll, sir.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 16 August 2015, 08:43:20
Things wrong with Linux distributions;
1. Everything
For me, over the course of 5-6 years of attempting to install/use Linux (Ubuntu and openSUSE flavors, mostly) the absolute incessant, screaming, hair-pulling, recurring nightmares have revolved, almost exclusively, around getting internet connectivity. Ethernet LAN, wireless cards, wif-fi, whatever, there have only been a couple of times that I could get online (via ethernet card, the first time at least, almost never with built-in motherboard connection) without excruciating pain and hours of wasted time, if at all.
Pleas for help on the forums have yielded little help (Ubuntu forum mostly compassionate, openSUSE forum breathtakingly snarky and mean-spirited) because 90%+ of the replies take the form "go online and do x" or "download and run this, then post the result" - HOW?
Without internet connectivity is is just a roundelay of useless exercises and walking around with flash drive files that don't do anything.
Post by: Belfong on Sun, 16 August 2015, 08:47:54
Post by: Touch_It on Sun, 16 August 2015, 08:53:09
So today I was prompted in Windows 10 to upgrade my current Office to Office 365 and because I am a Windows 10 user, I get 50% off. 50% is pretty good and so I read the T&C. Turned out it is only half off for the first year. Second year onward and I have to pay the $70/year full price. WTF, no thanks Microsoft. I am happy with Office 2007.
Lol yeah. I can't imagine most people wanting to upgrade to 365. Sadly for the less tech savy who have no idea 365 is a yearly subscription, they will be in for a rude awakening. The last version of office I bought is 2002, lol. If I need office that bad I'll use 2010 on my work laptop.
Post by: Belfong on Sun, 16 August 2015, 09:04:03
Post by: JaccoW on Sun, 16 August 2015, 09:30:58
I'm using win10 on a cheap HP stream 7 tablet, basically a cheap atom tablet and it's surprisingly much snappier than it was on the original win8.1
There are a few small quirks but so far I like it better than win8.1 which had some really good improvements over the rock-solid win7. Can't wait to upgrade the laptop though. I should finally be able to transform the Wi-Di on it to Miracast. :D
Edit: But of course I have a Sony laptop (http://esupport.sony.com/LA/p/os10upgrade.pl?template_id=1) with switchable graphics so I have to wait for updated drivers. :))
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 August 2015, 09:52:10
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 16 August 2015, 16:22:51
Post by: THSdrummer on Sun, 16 August 2015, 16:33:47
Post by: JaccoW on Sun, 16 August 2015, 19:44:43
Who the **** upgrades office? If it wasn't for my dad accidentally buying a family pack of Office 2010 I'd still be on Office '03 lmaoPeople who actually use it. :P
Each and every Office version offered some definite improvements over its predecessor. I'd hate to think of still having to use office 2003. My studies and the sort of work I do require me to write reports and use programs like Excel, PowerPoint and Visio. We are not all programmers here who can just plemp down code all day. XP
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 16 August 2015, 20:58:47
Rude awakening is such an apt word. I believe many people will be in shock next year!
This is going to hit a lot of people.
I imagine Microsoft started the subscription model to try to tempt people in with apparently lower prices.
But when people realise they will have to pay this amount year after year, it will soon add up.
Businesses too - we have a mix of Office 2003, 2007, 2010 and 2013. I can't really see boss fella agreeing to pay $70 (that's US$70? Which would be closer to AUD$95) per year per user. And we are only a small company.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 16 August 2015, 21:26:55
But when people realise they will have to pay this amount year after year, it will soon add up.
I hate subscription stuff, but if JaccoW is right and it is $70 for 5 seats, that is a lot more palatable.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 August 2015, 22:32:43
But when people realise they will have to pay this amount year after year, it will soon add up.
I hate subscription stuff, but if JaccoW is right and it is $70 for 5 seats, that is a lot more palatable.
I don't care if it's $1 for 10000 seats..
They should be PAYING ME... for my Immense verbosity... (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/th_101_.gif)
Post by: PadawanGeek on Sun, 16 August 2015, 23:44:21
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 00:08:48
Who the **** upgrades office? If it wasn't for my dad accidentally buying a family pack of Office 2010 I'd still be on Office '03 lmaoPeople who actually use it. :P
Each and every Office version offered some definite improvements over its predecessor. I'd hate to think of still having to use office 2003. My studies and the sort of work I do require me to write reports and use programs like Excel, PowerPoint and Visio. We are not all programmers here who can just plemp down code all day. XP
I'm not a programmer lol and I use word and execell everyday at work, but having 2010 instead of 2003 dosnt make much difference
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 August 2015, 02:34:01
I have no idea what is causing this.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 02:36:38
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 August 2015, 02:39:03
Recently, one of my rigs was prompted to upgrade to Win10 Pro, so I went ahead with it. It's my goto rig - FX8350/2x HD7950/16GB RAM/64bit Win7 Pro - I must say, things went ahead quite smoothly though I had to download twice as the first one was corrupted in some way. I rather like the interface, didn't even have to install any drivers as my GPU's was on the latest Win10 Cat driver then, my Xonar worked right off the bat....heck, just about everything worked after the reboot. Right clicking on the 'Start' brings up the old tab for Task Manager, Control Panel and such.....so glad MS opted for this, so tired of not intuitively having to move cursor to bottom right of my Win8.1 rig to get to the Shut Down tab. Only one minor niggle, my Tt Level 10M mouse doesn't light up when my rig is powered on. I may have to reinstall the driver.....
Psssssh... Gotta get on the INTEL friend...
the 4790 series is on sale, along with z97... some good deals acomin'
and trust me, the broadwell and skylake are NOT FASTER ...
They're also more dangerous to Delid.. which is a serious problem for overclocking, because ALL these cpus need to be delidded.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 17 August 2015, 06:31:52
Came in this morning to my PC on for me already.
I have no idea what is causing this.
You need to run cmd as an admin and use powercfg -energy to get an energy report. Here's how it worked in W7 (and 8.1). (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/976034) I assume it works the same way in W10.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 06:32:34
Came in this morning to my PC on for me already.
I have no idea what is causing this.
You need to run cmd as an admin and use powercfg -energy to get an energy report. Here's how it worked in W7 (and 8.1). (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/976034) I assume it works the same way in W10.
thats what I used in win10
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 August 2015, 07:25:21
Came in this morning to my PC on for me already.
I have no idea what is causing this.
You need to run cmd as an admin and use powercfg -energy to get an energy report. Here's how it worked in W7 (and 8.1). (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/976034) I assume it works the same way in W10.
WTF do I make of all this
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 07:32:07
Came in this morning to my PC on for me already.
I have no idea what is causing this.
You need to run cmd as an admin and use powercfg -energy to get an energy report. Here's how it worked in W7 (and 8.1). (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/976034) I assume it works the same way in W10.
WTF do I make of all this
m8
r+winkey
type 'cmd'
then type 'powercfg -energy'
press enter
then post what it says
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 August 2015, 07:33:26
More
Power Efficiency Diagnostics Report
Computer Name EL-SALVADOR
Scan Time 2015-08-17T12:21:15Z
Scan Duration 60 seconds
System Manufacturer MSI
System Product Name MS-7930
BIOS Date 04/28/2014
BIOS Version V1.0
OS Build 10240
Platform Role PlatformRoleDesktop
Plugged In true
Process Count 115
Thread Count 2116
Report GUID {d2f4631e-5036-4f8a-937a-92ee617eba94}
Analysis Results
Errors
Power Policy:Display timeout disabled (Plugged In)
The display is not configured to turn off after a period of inactivity.
Power Policy:Sleep timeout is disabled (Plugged In)
The computer is not configured to automatically sleep after a period of inactivity.
System Availability Requests:System Required Request
The program has made a request to prevent the system from automatically entering sleep.
Requesting Process \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
System Availability Requests:Display Required Request
The program has made a request to prevent the display from automatically entering a low-power mode.
Requesting Process \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
System Availability Requests:System Required Request
The device or driver has made a request to prevent the system from automatically entering sleep.
Requesting Driver Instance USB\VID_08BB&PID_2706&MI_00\6&43de81c&0&0000
Requesting Driver Device USB Audio Device
System Availability Requests:System Required Request
A kernel component has made a request to prevent the system from automatically entering sleep.
USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Selective Suspend
This device did not enter the USB Selective Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented when this USB device is not in the Selective Suspend state. Note that this issue will not prevent the system from sleeping.
Device Name USB Input Device
Host Controller ID PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8CB1
Host Controller Location PCI bus 0, device 20, function 0
Device ID USB\VID_0738&PID_1705
Port Path 2
USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Selective Suspend
This device did not enter the USB Selective Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented when this USB device is not in the Selective Suspend state. Note that this issue will not prevent the system from sleeping.
Device Name USB Composite Device
Host Controller ID PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8CB1
Host Controller Location PCI bus 0, device 20, function 0
Device ID USB\VID_04B4&PID_1001
Port Path 10
USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Selective Suspend
This device did not enter the USB Selective Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented when this USB device is not in the Selective Suspend state. Note that this issue will not prevent the system from sleeping.
Device Name USB Composite Device
Host Controller ID PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8CB1
Host Controller Location PCI bus 0, device 20, function 0
Device ID USB\VID_08BB&PID_2706
Port Path 9
CPU Utilization:Processor utilization is high
The average processor utilization during the trace was high. The system will consume less power when the average processor utilization is very low. Review processor utilization for individual processes to determine which applications and services contribute the most to total processor utilization.
Average Utilization (%) 23.18
Platform Power Management Capabilities:PCI Express Active-State Power Management (ASPM) Disabled
PCI Express Active-State Power Management (ASPM) has been disabled due to a known incompatibility with the hardware in this computer.
Warnings
Platform Timer Resolution:Platform Timer Resolution
The default platform timer resolution is 15.6ms (15625000ns) and should be used whenever the system is idle. If the timer resolution is increased, processor power management technologies may not be effective. The timer resolution may be increased due to multimedia playback or graphical animations.
Current Timer Resolution (100ns units) 10009
Maximum Timer Period (100ns units) 156250
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Kernel Timer Request
A kernel component or device driver has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 10000
Request Count 1
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 50000
Requesting Process ID 5904
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 220
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\UplayWebCore.exe
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 10440
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\Uplay.exe
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name vlc.exe
PID 5904
Average Utilization (%) 3.89
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\plugins\audio_filter\libsamplerate_plugin.dll 1.92
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\plugins\codec\libavcodec_plugin.dll 0.45
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.28
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 5756
Average Utilization (%) 2.17
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 1.22
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\edgehtml.dll 0.27
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Macromed\Flash\Flash.ocx 0.20
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name CCC.exe
PID 6536
Average Utilization (%) 1.88
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319\clr.dll 0.95
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.32
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\msvcr120_clr0400.dll 0.30
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name Steam.exe
PID 5344
Average Utilization (%) 1.48
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.36
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.31
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vgui2_s.dll 0.25
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name dwm.exe
PID 796
Average Utilization (%) 1.30
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\dwmcore.dll 0.30
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.29
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.16
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 9724
Average Utilization (%) 1.17
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 0.43
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Macromed\Flash\Flash.ocx 0.19
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\edgehtml.dll 0.18
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name csrss.exe
PID 660
Average Utilization (%) 0.62
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\DRIVERS\atikmdag.sys 0.22
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.20
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.12
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 2320
Average Utilization (%) 0.62
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 0.24
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.10
\SystemRoot\System32\ntdll.dll 0.07
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 7284
Average Utilization (%) 0.61
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\edgehtml.dll 0.24
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.10
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 0.05
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name explorer.exe
PID 4396
Average Utilization (%) 0.47
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.21
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.05
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kbase.sys 0.04
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name audiodg.exe
PID 9980
Average Utilization (%) 0.43
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.14
\SystemRoot\System32\drivers\USBXHCI.SYS 0.09
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\AudioEng.dll 0.03
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name Skype.exe
PID 5912
Average Utilization (%) 0.40
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.11
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.09
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Skype\Phone\Skype.exe 0.06
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name DisplayFusion.exe
PID 5272
Average Utilization (%) 0.38
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319\clr.dll 0.14
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\assembly\NativeImages_v4.0.30319_64\mscorlib\dfd75630ade67ae60abbed1c6429af70\mscorlib.ni.dll 0.09
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.04
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name Uplay.exe
PID 10440
Average Utilization (%) 0.37
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.16
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll 0.05
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\XAudio2_7.dll 0.02
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name chrome.exe
PID 8096
Average Utilization (%) 0.34
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Google\Chrome\Application\44.0.2403.155\chrome.dll 0.25
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll 0.06
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.01
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name System
PID 4
Average Utilization (%) 0.33
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.17
\SystemRoot\system32\DRIVERS\atikmdag.sys 0.08
\SystemRoot\System32\drivers\dxgmms2.sys 0.04
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name explorer.exe
PID 7900
Average Utilization (%) 0.28
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.10
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.04
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.02
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name svchost.exe
PID 2376
Average Utilization (%) 0.25
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.16
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\diagtrack.dll 0.03
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\msvcrt.dll 0.03
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdge.exe
PID 5088
Average Utilization (%) 0.24
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Windows.UI.Xaml.dll 0.07
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.05
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.03
Information
Platform Timer Resolution:Timer Request Stack
The stack of modules responsible for the lowest platform timer setting in this process.
Requested Period 50000
Requesting Process ID 5904
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
Calling Module Stack \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\libvlccore.dll
Platform Timer Resolution:Timer Request Stack
The stack of modules responsible for the lowest platform timer setting in this process.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 220
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\UplayWebCore.exe
Calling Module Stack \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\libcef.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
Platform Timer Resolution:Timer Request Stack
The stack of modules responsible for the lowest platform timer setting in this process.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 10440
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\Uplay.exe
Calling Module Stack \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\XAudio2_7.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\Uplay.exe.old
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
Power Policy:Active Power Plan
The current power plan in use
Plan Name OEM Balanced
Plan GUID {381b4222-f694-41f0-9685-ff5bb260df2e}
Power Policy:Power Plan Personality (Plugged In)
The personality of the current power plan when the system is plugged in.
Personality Balanced
Power Policy:802.11 Radio Power Policy is Maximum Performance (Plugged In)
The current power policy for 802.11-compatible wireless network adapters is not configured to use low-power modes.
Power Policy:Video quality (Plugged In)
Enables Windows Media Player to optimize for quality or power savings when playing video.
Quality Mode Optimize for Video Quality
Battery:Analysis Success
Analysis was successful. No energy efficiency problems were found. No information was returned.
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Supported Sleep States
Sleep states allow the computer to enter low-power modes after a period of inactivity. The S3 sleep state is the default sleep state for Windows platforms. The S3 sleep state consumes only enough power to preserve memory contents and allow the computer to resume working quickly. Very few platforms support the S1 or S2 Sleep states.
S1 Sleep Supported false
S2 Sleep Supported false
S3 Sleep Supported true
S4 Sleep Supported true
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Connected Standby Support
Connected standby allows the computer to enter a low-power mode in which it is always on and connected. If supported, connected standby is used instead of system sleep states.
Connected Standby Supported false
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 0
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 1
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 2
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 3
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Device Drivers:Analysis Success
Analysis was successful. No energy efficiency problems were found. No information was returned.
Computer Name EL-SALVADOR
Scan Time 2015-08-17T12:21:15Z
Scan Duration 60 seconds
System Manufacturer MSI
System Product Name MS-7930
BIOS Date 04/28/2014
BIOS Version V1.0
OS Build 10240
Platform Role PlatformRoleDesktop
Plugged In true
Process Count 115
Thread Count 2116
Report GUID {d2f4631e-5036-4f8a-937a-92ee617eba94}
Analysis Results
Errors
Power Policy:Display timeout disabled (Plugged In)
The display is not configured to turn off after a period of inactivity.
Power Policy:Sleep timeout is disabled (Plugged In)
The computer is not configured to automatically sleep after a period of inactivity.
System Availability Requests:System Required Request
The program has made a request to prevent the system from automatically entering sleep.
Requesting Process \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
System Availability Requests:Display Required Request
The program has made a request to prevent the display from automatically entering a low-power mode.
Requesting Process \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
System Availability Requests:System Required Request
The device or driver has made a request to prevent the system from automatically entering sleep.
Requesting Driver Instance USB\VID_08BB&PID_2706&MI_00\6&43de81c&0&0000
Requesting Driver Device USB Audio Device
System Availability Requests:System Required Request
A kernel component has made a request to prevent the system from automatically entering sleep.
USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Selective Suspend
This device did not enter the USB Selective Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented when this USB device is not in the Selective Suspend state. Note that this issue will not prevent the system from sleeping.
Device Name USB Input Device
Host Controller ID PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8CB1
Host Controller Location PCI bus 0, device 20, function 0
Device ID USB\VID_0738&PID_1705
Port Path 2
USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Selective Suspend
This device did not enter the USB Selective Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented when this USB device is not in the Selective Suspend state. Note that this issue will not prevent the system from sleeping.
Device Name USB Composite Device
Host Controller ID PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8CB1
Host Controller Location PCI bus 0, device 20, function 0
Device ID USB\VID_04B4&PID_1001
Port Path 10
USB Suspend:USB Device not Entering Selective Suspend
This device did not enter the USB Selective Suspend state. Processor power management may be prevented when this USB device is not in the Selective Suspend state. Note that this issue will not prevent the system from sleeping.
Device Name USB Composite Device
Host Controller ID PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8CB1
Host Controller Location PCI bus 0, device 20, function 0
Device ID USB\VID_08BB&PID_2706
Port Path 9
CPU Utilization:Processor utilization is high
The average processor utilization during the trace was high. The system will consume less power when the average processor utilization is very low. Review processor utilization for individual processes to determine which applications and services contribute the most to total processor utilization.
Average Utilization (%) 23.18
Platform Power Management Capabilities:PCI Express Active-State Power Management (ASPM) Disabled
PCI Express Active-State Power Management (ASPM) has been disabled due to a known incompatibility with the hardware in this computer.
Warnings
Platform Timer Resolution:Platform Timer Resolution
The default platform timer resolution is 15.6ms (15625000ns) and should be used whenever the system is idle. If the timer resolution is increased, processor power management technologies may not be effective. The timer resolution may be increased due to multimedia playback or graphical animations.
Current Timer Resolution (100ns units) 10009
Maximum Timer Period (100ns units) 156250
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Kernel Timer Request
A kernel component or device driver has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 10000
Request Count 1
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 50000
Requesting Process ID 5904
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 220
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\UplayWebCore.exe
Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 10440
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\Uplay.exe
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name vlc.exe
PID 5904
Average Utilization (%) 3.89
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\plugins\audio_filter\libsamplerate_plugin.dll 1.92
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\plugins\codec\libavcodec_plugin.dll 0.45
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.28
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 5756
Average Utilization (%) 2.17
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 1.22
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\edgehtml.dll 0.27
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Macromed\Flash\Flash.ocx 0.20
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name CCC.exe
PID 6536
Average Utilization (%) 1.88
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319\clr.dll 0.95
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.32
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\msvcr120_clr0400.dll 0.30
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name Steam.exe
PID 5344
Average Utilization (%) 1.48
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.36
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.31
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vgui2_s.dll 0.25
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name dwm.exe
PID 796
Average Utilization (%) 1.30
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\dwmcore.dll 0.30
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.29
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.16
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 9724
Average Utilization (%) 1.17
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 0.43
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Macromed\Flash\Flash.ocx 0.19
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\edgehtml.dll 0.18
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name csrss.exe
PID 660
Average Utilization (%) 0.62
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\DRIVERS\atikmdag.sys 0.22
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.20
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.12
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 2320
Average Utilization (%) 0.62
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 0.24
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.10
\SystemRoot\System32\ntdll.dll 0.07
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe
PID 7284
Average Utilization (%) 0.61
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\edgehtml.dll 0.24
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.10
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Chakra.dll 0.05
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name explorer.exe
PID 4396
Average Utilization (%) 0.47
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.21
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.05
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kbase.sys 0.04
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name audiodg.exe
PID 9980
Average Utilization (%) 0.43
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.14
\SystemRoot\System32\drivers\USBXHCI.SYS 0.09
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\AudioEng.dll 0.03
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name Skype.exe
PID 5912
Average Utilization (%) 0.40
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.11
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.09
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Skype\Phone\Skype.exe 0.06
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name DisplayFusion.exe
PID 5272
Average Utilization (%) 0.38
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319\clr.dll 0.14
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\assembly\NativeImages_v4.0.30319_64\mscorlib\dfd75630ade67ae60abbed1c6429af70\mscorlib.ni.dll 0.09
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.04
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name Uplay.exe
PID 10440
Average Utilization (%) 0.37
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.16
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll 0.05
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\XAudio2_7.dll 0.02
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name chrome.exe
PID 8096
Average Utilization (%) 0.34
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Google\Chrome\Application\44.0.2403.155\chrome.dll 0.25
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll 0.06
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.01
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name System
PID 4
Average Utilization (%) 0.33
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.17
\SystemRoot\system32\DRIVERS\atikmdag.sys 0.08
\SystemRoot\System32\drivers\dxgmms2.sys 0.04
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name explorer.exe
PID 7900
Average Utilization (%) 0.28
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.10
\SystemRoot\System32\win32kfull.sys 0.04
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.02
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name svchost.exe
PID 2376
Average Utilization (%) 0.25
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.16
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\diagtrack.dll 0.03
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\msvcrt.dll 0.03
CPU Utilization:Individual process with significant processor utilization.
This process is responsible for a significant portion of the total processor utilization recorded during the trace.
Process Name MicrosoftEdge.exe
PID 5088
Average Utilization (%) 0.24
Module Average Module Utilization (%)
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\Windows.UI.Xaml.dll 0.07
\SystemRoot\system32\ntoskrnl.exe 0.05
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\System32\ntdll.dll 0.03
Information
Platform Timer Resolution:Timer Request Stack
The stack of modules responsible for the lowest platform timer setting in this process.
Requested Period 50000
Requesting Process ID 5904
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\vlc.exe
Calling Module Stack \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\VideoLAN\VLC\libvlccore.dll
Platform Timer Resolution:Timer Request Stack
The stack of modules responsible for the lowest platform timer setting in this process.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 220
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\UplayWebCore.exe
Calling Module Stack \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\libcef.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
Platform Timer Resolution:Timer Request Stack
The stack of modules responsible for the lowest platform timer setting in this process.
Requested Period 10000
Requesting Process ID 10440
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\Uplay.exe
Calling Module Stack \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\XAudio2_7.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Ubisoft\Ubisoft Game Launcher\Uplay.exe.old
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\kernel32.dll
\Device\HarddiskVolume3\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll
Power Policy:Active Power Plan
The current power plan in use
Plan Name OEM Balanced
Plan GUID {381b4222-f694-41f0-9685-ff5bb260df2e}
Power Policy:Power Plan Personality (Plugged In)
The personality of the current power plan when the system is plugged in.
Personality Balanced
Power Policy:802.11 Radio Power Policy is Maximum Performance (Plugged In)
The current power policy for 802.11-compatible wireless network adapters is not configured to use low-power modes.
Power Policy:Video quality (Plugged In)
Enables Windows Media Player to optimize for quality or power savings when playing video.
Quality Mode Optimize for Video Quality
Battery:Analysis Success
Analysis was successful. No energy efficiency problems were found. No information was returned.
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Supported Sleep States
Sleep states allow the computer to enter low-power modes after a period of inactivity. The S3 sleep state is the default sleep state for Windows platforms. The S3 sleep state consumes only enough power to preserve memory contents and allow the computer to resume working quickly. Very few platforms support the S1 or S2 Sleep states.
S1 Sleep Supported false
S2 Sleep Supported false
S3 Sleep Supported true
S4 Sleep Supported true
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Connected Standby Support
Connected standby allows the computer to enter a low-power mode in which it is always on and connected. If supported, connected standby is used instead of system sleep states.
Connected Standby Supported false
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 0
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 1
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 2
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Platform Power Management Capabilities:Processor Power Management Capabilities
Effective processor power management enables the computer to automatically balance performance and energy consumption.
Group 0
Index 3
Idle State Count 2
Idle State Type ACPI Idle (C) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz) 3401
Maximum Performance Percentage 100
Lowest Performance Percentage 23
Lowest Throttle Percentage 23
Performance Controls Type ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Device Drivers:Analysis Success
Analysis was successful. No energy efficiency problems were found. No information was returned.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 07:38:24
though have you tried powering off your rig and unplugging ur usb ****?
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 August 2015, 07:43:10
Well I've no idea lmao
though have you tried powering off your rig and unplugging ur usb ****?
Yeah, nor me. I only have keyboard, mouse and DAC plugged in via USB :(
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 07:51:43
Well I've no idea lmao
though have you tried powering off your rig and unplugging ur usb ****?
Yeah, nor me. I only have keyboard, mouse and DAC plugged in via USB :(
does the dac have/need drivers?
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 17 August 2015, 08:04:59
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 17 August 2015, 08:13:39
And in case any gamers are considering installing this "spyware" OS, read that little article.
So, that DRM-free version of the game you paid for that you run rather than the original, because it actually lets you play without throwing a hissy fit because the authentication server is down or some other bull**** reason, unlike the "genuine" version... Sorry... You're just going to have to live with that over-the-top intrusive DRM.
No thank you. When the OS starts telling me what hardware and software I can or can't install or use on my system, it's too much.
No more homebrew Teensy-based gadgets for you, son. Like, you know, KEYBOARDS and stuff....
Sticking with Win7 thanks.
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 August 2015, 08:57:11
does the dac have/need drivers?
No. It's some mini crowd-designed thing I bought off mkawa a while ago.
Surely it's not sleep when you turn it off? Why class turning your PC off as sleep? That's stupid.
I've updated all my mobo drivers since I updated, and the audio and usb drivers twice because MSI audio drivers SUCK.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 17 August 2015, 09:10:09
does the dac have/need drivers?
No. It's some mini crowd-designed thing I bought off mkawa a while ago.
Surely it's not sleep when you turn it off? Why class turning your PC off as sleep? That's stupid.
I've updated all my mobo drivers since I updated, and the audio and usb drivers twice because MSI audio drivers SUCK.
Ok a few more things:
*Hold down shift while you click "Shut Down" - on Connected Standby machines this puts it in a deeper sleep state
*Quit Skype before you shut down your computer - it may think it is on connected standby hardware and be trying to wake to check messages
*If all else fails I guess just complain to MS & MSI about it, hopefully you're not the only one experiencing this and a fix will come out at some point :shrug:
Post by: dante on Mon, 17 August 2015, 09:12:34
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 09:13:51
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 17 August 2015, 09:15:53
But thanks for the tips/advice. I will try them all.
Post by: Binge on Mon, 17 August 2015, 10:17:01
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 17 August 2015, 10:20:02
Nothing else has really been an issue
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 17 August 2015, 16:25:45
Connected standby and Windows update.
Connected standby is the bane of tablet users, basically the machine doesn't sleep, it's still running, at least enough to check email and perform updates (it's killed a few tablets this way, destroying the batteries by running them to zero). Unless you actually shut the computer completely off, it's still running. You can disable connected standby with a registry tweak.
Windows update, not so much, the only way to really kill it is to kill the service.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 17 August 2015, 17:23:09
Unless you actually shut the computer completely off, it's still running.
Because I am a crusty old curmudgeon, I am a big believer in shutting everything down cold, for example: every night, and I even turn off the power strip so that all my gear is entirely off the grid while I am asleep.
In the old days, when certain downloads and/or uploads took hours, I would turn off the monitor and go to bed, but now that is not the case.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 17 August 2015, 19:38:00
Two things typically will cause it to come back on...
Connected standby and Windows update.
Connected standby is the bane of tablet users, basically the machine doesn't sleep, it's still running, at least enough to check email and perform updates (it's killed a few tablets this way, destroying the batteries by running them to zero). Unless you actually shut the computer completely off, it's still running. You can disable connected standby with a registry tweak.
Windows update, not so much, the only way to really kill it is to kill the service.
I've done the registry tweak, and unfortunately it wreaked havoc on my Helix Gen 2's power settings.
What you're talking about is called Hybrid Shutdown. It's part of MS's fast startup initiative for tablet users. It can be disabled through the power settings by disabling "Fast Startup". This is safer than the 'disable connected standby' registry tweak, as it doesn't mess with the sleep state settings of the device. However, I didn't do it because sometimes I like that during the day (going from meeting to meeting, for example).
So I either hold shift while clicking shutdown, which bypasses Hybrid Shutdown and Hybrid boot, or I use cmd with this:
Code: [Select]
shutdown.exe /s /f /t 00That basically does the same thing.Avoiding hybrid shutdown/boot is why I told the guy above to hold down shift when he clicks shut down. Hopefully that works for him.
Post by: LechnerDE on Tue, 18 August 2015, 00:42:55
Never change a running system....
Post by: Elrick on Tue, 18 August 2015, 03:52:00
I will try it on my Laptop first and test it for a while before I ruin my desktop system.
Never change a running system....
Better stay with W7 and/or W8.1 Pro BUT do not go into the darkness of 10, you will regret it a year later :)) .
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 18 August 2015, 12:32:44
Besides the issues with the privacy concerns, I also feel like they have taken some huge steps backwards, or in wrong directions with the UI again. I realize some people refused to adapt to the full screen start, and 'modern' apps which is fine... but I was a huge fan of that actually and they have made it so much worse in 10. Now even in the full screen start, they ruined the best part of that with the all programs now being stuck into a narrow column and with nested folders and **** which was just the wrong way to do it. No clue why they couldn't have left that alone and carried it over 100% from 8.1. I didn't like the new default theme, though at least that wasn't too much bother to get sorted. I notice they still haven't managed to take the incentive to fix all the icons and get those all consistent everywhere, still spotting some that look like they came from '98, XP, Vista... Modern apps being windowed, which I thought would be a feature I would welcome... they just feel out of place and wrong instead to me.
I do like how much leaner the OS feels, and it went from 45% used space, to 17% used space with all my same programs and personal files which is a pretty amazing improvement. Some of the other under the hood stuff is clearly improvement. I do like being able to use the standard keyboard shortcuts finally natively in command line. DX12 looks like it might be a real huge improvement, but I guess we will have to wait and see how it pans out for awhile for games to catch up and start releasing on that.
For now, I am not sure if going back to 8.1 or spending time and effort on additional customzing and 3rd party stuff to get it how I like it again is more worthwhile. I'm just glad I also took the time to make a disk image of my 8.1 install just in case.
TLDR... updating to Windows 10 for me may have been more trouble than it was worth, for an essentially uncompelling OS version.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 18 August 2015, 14:44:29
it went from 45% used space, to 17% used space with all my same programs and personal files which is a pretty amazing improvement.
for an essentially uncompelling OS version.
You speak with forked tongue, kemo sabe.
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 20 August 2015, 16:24:14
I just spent the evening installing new printers in an office full of 8.1 and installed several new Win10 notebooks. What should have been a couple hours turned into a 10 hour debacle.
MS is going to have to change some of their policies and/or get this thing right soon, or there will be hell to pay. I like Win10, but when it has a problem and decides to fight you, it really fights you. The primary problem being the forced updates. I guarantee you as soon as it stabilizes, a LOT of offices are simply going to just shut down updates entirely. That's my plan for the 300+ systems I maintain.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 20 August 2015, 17:29:41
I have 4GB of RAM to install, along with a moderate SSD, so I think that the (dual core) hardware will be adequate. I have a valid Windows 7 product key so I want to download the Windows 10 ISO and do a clean install.
Is there any reason not to do this, and/or any pitfalls that I need to watch out for?
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 20 August 2015, 18:10:11
In my house are several Windows 7/8 machines, working properly, with no particular compulsion to move up, except for my daughter's Vista (factory-installed Dell Inspirion 1545) laptop.
I have 4GB of RAM to install, along with a moderate SSD, so I think that the (dual core) hardware will be adequate. I have a valid Windows 7 product key so I want to download the Windows 10 ISO and do a clean install.
Is there any reason not to do this, and/or any pitfalls that I need to watch out for?
Good fathers don't let children use Vista.. tsk tsk tsk.... (http://textemoticons.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/th_0pride.gif)
LOLOL.. what is a MODERATE SSD... (http://www.cute-factor.com/images/smilies/onion/073.gif)
Post by: Binge on Thu, 20 August 2015, 19:08:38
In my house are several Windows 7/8 machines, working properly, with no particular compulsion to move up, except for my daughter's Vista (factory-installed Dell Inspirion 1545) laptop.
I have 4GB of RAM to install, along with a moderate SSD, so I think that the (dual core) hardware will be adequate. I have a valid Windows 7 product key so I want to download the Windows 10 ISO and do a clean install.
Is there any reason not to do this, and/or any pitfalls that I need to watch out for?
As long as you opt out of all of microsoft's "enhancements" then you've got nothing to worry about.
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 21 August 2015, 04:40:38
In my house are several Windows 7/8 machines, working properly, with no particular compulsion to move up, except for my daughter's Vista (factory-installed Dell Inspirion 1545) laptop.
I have 4GB of RAM to install, along with a moderate SSD, so I think that the (dual core) hardware will be adequate. I have a valid Windows 7 product key so I want to download the Windows 10 ISO and do a clean install.
Is there any reason not to do this, and/or any pitfalls that I need to watch out for?
As long as you opt out of all of microsoft's "enhancements" then you've got nothing to worry about.
And in order to that properly you need to do these steps: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3fhy27/how_do_disable_all_privacy_leaks_in_windows_10/
But I'd rather just upgrade it to 7 and stick with that. I'm sure there will be some teething troubles (and new security holes) with 10 as there always are with a new OS.
Some issues that have come up so far: http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/08/windows-10-early-problems/
And people are having trouble with audio cards. Either no audio present at all or driver issues or the system waking up due to something happening with the audio drivers under the hood.
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 21 August 2015, 04:43:09
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 21 August 2015, 04:55:06
But I'd rather just upgrade it to 7 and stick with that. I'm sure there will be some teething troubles (and new security holes) with 10 as there always are with a new OS.
Best stay with Win 7 Ultimate, simply perfect compared to Redmond's current abortion, best to leave this worst example of perpetual spying on the scrap heap where it belongs :thumb: .
Post by: njbair on Fri, 21 August 2015, 09:05:59
As far as spying, I guess I just really don't think that's happening. MS doesn't have the resources to drill down into a single person's data. Besides, "big data" is only useful for large-scale aggregations.
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 21 August 2015, 10:00:30
Yeah I've had my system wake up due to my on-board audio... but I beta tested Vista so it's all good ^-^
Ahhhh, ok. Well I've unplugged everything from my on-board audio ports now, everything just plugs in via USB through the DAC instead.
Post by: godly_music on Fri, 21 August 2015, 10:14:18
DX12 is the only selling point and it's not even their invention. If AMD hadn't pressured everyone to step up their game, W10 would have nothing good in it at all. I recommend everyone sit on Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Enjoy being the king of your castle for as long as you still can.
Post by: jwaz on Fri, 21 August 2015, 10:32:56
Quote
Something went wrong!
I couldn't upgrade even if I wanted too :))
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 22 August 2015, 01:36:38
Never. No matter how stable they make it, it's still a privacy nightmare. Yes, Google & Co have been doing it for a long time, bu we're talking about an operating system here. That thing is supposed to work for you! I don't have time to un-**** all the things that they ****ed. I even heard that some updates reset privacy settings back to default which is worse.It's no worse than using Chrome or Facebook.
Updates have not changed privacy settings as of 3 days ago when I disabled them, however, the first time you shift the default web browser to something other than Edge it does reset some of them.
Post by: godly_music on Sat, 22 August 2015, 06:14:14
It's no worse than using Chrome or Facebook.
Precisely! ;)
Post by: njbair on Sat, 22 August 2015, 08:47:32
Never. No matter how stable they make it, it's still a privacy nightmare. Yes, Google & Co have been doing it for a long time, bu we're talking about an operating system here. That thing is supposed to work for you! I don't have time to un-**** all the things that they ****ed. I even heard that some updates reset privacy settings back to default which is worse.It's no worse than using Chrome or Facebook.
Updates have not changed privacy settings as of 3 days ago when I disabled them, however, the first time you shift the default web browser to something other than Edge it does reset some of them.
Seriously, if people realized how much data Facebook gathers on them through their ubiquitous "like" buttons on nearly every website, they would be amazed. That said, I still don't think it's anything to worry about. Those companies are interested in large-scale, aggregated statistics, not individual behavior.
People are worried MS is like, "Nick here spends a lot of time on keyboard websites so let's show him keyboard ads." When really it's more like, "our client, Vandelay Industries, sells keyboards. So let's target their ad to people who regularly visit geekhack.org, deskthority.net, and mechanicalkeyboards.com." It's very anonymous and advertiser-based, not user-based.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 22 August 2015, 09:11:36
Never. No matter how stable they make it, it's still a privacy nightmare. Yes, Google & Co have been doing it for a long time, bu we're talking about an operating system here. That thing is supposed to work for you! I don't have time to un-**** all the things that they ****ed. I even heard that some updates reset privacy settings back to default which is worse.It's no worse than using Chrome or Facebook.
Updates have not changed privacy settings as of 3 days ago when I disabled them, however, the first time you shift the default web browser to something other than Edge it does reset some of them.
Seriously, if people realized how much data Facebook gathers on them through their ubiquitous "like" buttons on nearly every website, they would be amazed. That said, I still don't think it's anything to worry about. Those companies are interested in large-scale, aggregated statistics, not individual behavior.
People are worried MS is like, "Nick here spends a lot of time on keyboard websites so let's show him keyboard ads." When really it's more like, "our client, Vandelay Industries, sells keyboards. So let's target their ad to people who regularly visit geekhack.org, deskthority.net, and mechanicalkeyboards.com." It's very anonymous and advertiser-based, not user-based.
Art Vandelay, the importer-exporter?
And W10 is not the first OS to have this built in; that would be Android.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 22 August 2015, 09:29:15
Art Vandelay, the importer-exporter?
He's also an architect, and a marine biologist.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 22 August 2015, 10:17:20
Art Vandelay, the importer-exporter?
He's also an architect, and a marine biologist.
And always admired the city planners.
Post by: Oobly on Sat, 22 August 2015, 11:45:03
It's no worse than using Chrome or Facebook.
Precisely! ;)
Facebook WISHES they could get the kind of data MS already collects, let alone what they can get from Win10 users now...
MS has MASSES of data from all their users. They hand off "anonymised" batches of it to other companies to process for them, doing natural language processing, etc. And yes, they can drill sown to a single person's data. They make sure the links exist. Without that the data is FAR less valuable to them.
It's getting to the point where it's VERY hard to keep your online privacy and more and more people are giving up and buying in. But just going along with it and say it's not so bad because others are doing the same doesn't make it anywhere closer to being acceptable behaviour.
Just for reference, I use a rooted custom Android ROM, I don't use Facebook, Chrome, etc. Any service or software I do install or use is checked very carefully for what it collects, uses, sends, etc. It's starting to get pretty restrictive, but I'm doing alright.
But even if you do use services that collect stuff, you've still got to draw the line somewhere. For most, the OS level should be that line. It controls and has access to everything you do, store and use on your system.
Post by: godly_music on Sat, 22 August 2015, 13:02:43
I'm not worried so much about what MS, Google, Facebook etc *promise us* they'll do with the data, but what they *could do* without disclosure. As we all know, disclosure is the magic word in today's society. Crime requires witnesses and a platform. And if they don't do it, then they'll be made to do it by people who operate outside the law and whose job is gathering information. If you were the head of the NSA, you would be out of your freakin' mind and in the wrong line of business if you didn't at some point wrap your fingers around MS's throat to get access to their stuff. It's a match made in heaven.
Welp, I didn't originally mean to rant, but you couldn't just let it rest, could you Oobly? :D
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 22 August 2015, 13:04:56
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 22 August 2015, 21:53:25
Seriously, if people realized how much data Facebook gathers on them through their ubiquitous "like" buttons on nearly every website, they would be amazed. That said, I still don't think it's anything to worry about. Those companies are interested in large-scale, aggregated statistics, not individual behavior.
People are worried MS is like, "Nick here spends a lot of time on keyboard websites so let's show him keyboard ads." When really it's more like, "our client, Vandelay Industries, sells keyboards. So let's target their ad to people who regularly visit geekhack.org, deskthority.net, and mechanicalkeyboards.com." It's very anonymous and advertiser-based, not user-based.
Actually, it's not that anonymous.
They tell you it is, but it isn't, it's a database, not a persons memory, things can be correlated on a massive scale.
AOL thought it was anonymous and dumped their search history (just search terms), within 3 days, researchers had identified users.
And if you think that's bad...
This was exactly what Doubleclick was going to do with the data they collected from advertisements. They claimed they could determine who you were with extreme accuracy and planned on tying it your credit rating, which is often used for car insurance rates, bank loans and more. Had they determined that people who visit GH were bad with their money, simply because they spent so much money on keyboards, you visiting GH would have caused your credit rating to drop. Sounds crazy, but that was exactly the sort of thing they were
This doesn't even get into the problem of corporations and/or (worse) the government knowing your dirty laundry.
What's legal today may not be legal tomorrow, just ask the Jews in WW2. Think it doesn't happen today, go ask LGBT people in Russia who are just short of being hunted like animals. And while you may think it can't happen in the US, there are politicians and groups working for exactly that, it was an American group who is responsible for the kill-the-gays bill in Uganda and someone almost got a kill-the-gays bill on the ballot in California (it required a judge to kill it). That was for THIS election cycle. Then there is the AshleyMadison (A.M.) leak, it's already known that there are several women and gay men on there living in Saudi Arabia who will probably be executed for being on the site (they have their email addresses already), regardless of whether they did anything. A.M. was charging people to remove their data (blackmail?), but apparently wasn't. This is heading towards courtrooms already, but that doesn't help those people in Saudi Arabia, those lose their jobs over this, or those currently being blackmailed over it all.
Your data tells a LOT about you and it doesn't take much.
Facebook WISHES they could get the kind of data MS already collects, let alone what they can get from Win10 users now...Sorry, but no.
There's a major difference in what MS could collect were it legal and a smart business move verses what MS actually does collect. I think companies and governments would object to outright spying on every employee. Not only would MS sales plummet, but they would be sued into oblivion.
Which is why it's all able to be turned off.
Facebook wouldn't have it an option, they would just collect the info, you opted in when you signed up. MS can't do that with Windows due to sealed EULAS and government contracts.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 22 August 2015, 21:58:16
What could they want to know about me... that's so bad...
The only socially objectionable thing done online is a bit of pr0n...
What else could go so wrong..
That credit rating thing was obviously not going to go down, simply due to the nature of the thing being a poor correlation of credit rating...
Think of people like cicade.. They pop up by the billions.. NO predator can kill all of us..
At worst they screw up 1000s of people's lives with their snooping.. Relative to important things the governments should prevent, you know, FAMINES, GENOCIDE..
Data mining is quite harmless.
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 22 August 2015, 22:34:28
Think of people like cicade.. They pop up by the billions.. NO predator can kill all of us..Except when it isn't.
At worst they screw up 1000s of people's lives with their snooping.. Relative to important things the governments should prevent, you know, FAMINES, GENOCIDE..
Data mining is quite harmless.
And it's not always thousands of people's lives, it can effect millions.
By the way, the laws are not always so easy to predict, what is innocent enough today could be a major crime later.
You say your only vice is porn. Arizona is looking at it and New Zealand is planning to make trolling illegal. But it's okay, remember, they can't get everyone so even when you're locked up, someone would be along shortly to take your place, so no harm right?
It must be nice feeling like no one will ever threaten you for being who you are.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 22 August 2015, 22:46:16
Seriously, if people realized how much data Facebook gathers on them through their ubiquitous "like" buttons on nearly every website, they would be amazed. That said, I still don't think it's anything to worry about. Those companies are interested in large-scale, aggregated statistics, not individual behavior.
People are worried MS is like, "Nick here spends a lot of time on keyboard websites so let's show him keyboard ads." When really it's more like, "our client, Vandelay Industries, sells keyboards. So let's target their ad to people who regularly visit geekhack.org, deskthority.net, and mechanicalkeyboards.com." It's very anonymous and advertiser-based, not user-based.
Actually, it's not that anonymous.
They tell you it is, but it isn't, it's a database, not a persons memory, things can be correlated on a massive scale.
AOL thought it was anonymous and dumped their search history (just search terms), within 3 days, researchers had identified users.
And if you think that's bad...
This was exactly what Doubleclick was going to do with the data they collected from advertisements. They claimed they could determine who you were with extreme accuracy and planned on tying it your credit rating, which is often used for car insurance rates, bank loans and more. Had they determined that people who visit GH were bad with their money, simply because they spent so much money on keyboards, you visiting GH would have caused your credit rating to drop. Sounds crazy, but that was exactly the sort of thing they wereproposinggoing to do, they literally planned to tie your browsing history to your credit report. The public outcry was so bad that regulators stepped in, they not only had to abandon it, but they ended up selling the company to Google. This was years ago, combined with Facebook's data and cell phones it would be even easier.
This doesn't even get into the problem of corporations and/or (worse) the government knowing your dirty laundry.
What's legal today may not be legal tomorrow, just ask the Jews in WW2. Think it doesn't happen today, go ask LGBT people in Russia who are just short of being hunted like animals. And while you may think it can't happen in the US, there are politicians and groups working for exactly that, it was an American group who is responsible for the kill-the-gays bill in Uganda and someone almost got a kill-the-gays bill on the ballot in California (it required a judge to kill it). That was for THIS election cycle. Then there is the AshleyMadison (A.M.) leak, it's already known that there are several women and gay men on there living in Saudi Arabia who will probably be executed for being on the site (they have their email addresses already), regardless of whether they did anything. A.M. was charging people to remove their data (blackmail?), but apparently wasn't. This is heading towards courtrooms already, but that doesn't help those people in Saudi Arabia, those lose their jobs over this, or those currently being blackmailed over it all.
Your data tells a LOT about you and it doesn't take much.Facebook WISHES they could get the kind of data MS already collects, let alone what they can get from Win10 users now...Sorry, but no.
There's a major difference in what MS could collect were it legal and a smart business move verses what MS actually does collect. I think companies and governments would object to outright spying on every employee. Not only would MS sales plummet, but they would be sued into oblivion.
Which is why it's all able to be turned off.
Facebook wouldn't have it an option, they would just collect the info, you opted in when you signed up. MS can't do that with Windows due to sealed EULAS and government contracts.
Credit ratings are already, and always have been, based on large-scale data aggregation. Nobody is looking at whether you visit GeekHack.org. But the fact is, you can take a list of people who've declared bankruptcy or defaulted on loans, run it through an algorithm, and find statistically significant links between delinquency and certain behaviors.
For example, let's say they determine that 30% of people who've applied for 5 or more credit cards in 5 years, end up insolvent. So, if someone has been applying for a lot of credit cards, that's a strong indicator that they may not make good on the loan you're thinking about giving them.
Doubleclick would have been more of the same, just a little more insightful. I'm sure plenty of GeekHack users have excellent credit, so the algorithms wouldn't trigger a flag for that.
Regarding the Ashley Madison thing, I haven't been following that closely because frankly the whole idea behind the website is dispicable and if I wanted to watch bad things happen to bad people I'd watch a soap opera or read Us Weekly. But your point is moot to this discussion because that's not anonymous data.
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 23 August 2015, 03:37:09
Only in this case, it's not even safety we're giving up our liberty for, it's convenience.
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 23 August 2015, 06:08:36
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Only in this case, it's not even safety we're giving up our liberty for, it's convenience.
lalilulelo?
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 23 August 2015, 06:55:23
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Only in this case, it's not even safety we're giving up our liberty for, it's convenience.
Convenience: the idol of western civilization
Post by: Findecanor on Sun, 23 August 2015, 07:34:11
Yea.. but... seriously..That sounds like a variation of the Nothing to hide argument (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument) to me ...
What could they want to know about me... that's so bad...
The only socially objectionable thing done online is a bit of pr0n...
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 23 August 2015, 08:00:59
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 23 August 2015, 13:11:47
The digital monitoring system is ALREADY in place..
It's similar to the fact that there are already billions of GUNS in the general population's hands,
You can't collect them all, and no one would turn them in.
The Digital privacy destroying computer net has already been built..
You can yell at these guys all you want, but they make more money than you do..
So guess what, Oligarchy oligarchy oligarchy, we're pooor so we have no say..
I'm not saying GIVE UP the fight.. But rich people politics is not where our salvation begins..
You want to fight the power, you gotta get rich and find competitive advantages in other arenas...
Post by: godly_music on Sun, 23 August 2015, 13:52:38
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 24 August 2015, 02:14:10
... we're pooor so we have no say..
... you gotta get rich and find competitive advantages in other arenas...
I disagree. Enough people making a fuss can change things. Too many people simply have the "I can't do anything about it myself, I'm too poor and only one person, what can I possibly do, so I'll just go along with it." attitude and the end result is companies getting away with doing despicable things in the name of "profit".
@baldgye, these "self righteous posts about 'freedom' and 'liberties'" are perfectly on topic, and all about Windows 10. If MS had made different choices in the way they did things with it, there would be no need for this discussion and we could all talk about the UI or general performance or drivers and such instead.
How is MS planing to make money from the release of Win10? Selling YOUR data to their real customers.
Here in the EU we have laws requiring full disclosure of what a company has the rights to do and will do with personal information. Windows 10 is in violation of these laws and MS will have to change something in the installation process at a minimum to be even be legal here.
@godly_music: You don't even have to go that far. A customised Win7 install with all the BS cut out allows you full control of your machine again and you have access to a broader application base. But then you still have to be careful of WHICH applications you run and which services you buy into. As I said, I use a customised Android ROM and Win7 and I feel I have a good balance of functionality / convenience without sacrificing my rights.
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 24 August 2015, 03:14:43
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 24 August 2015, 03:51:14
Torrent Trackers Ban Windows 10 Over Privacy Concerns (https://torrentfreak.com/torrent-trackers-ban-windows-10-over-privacy-concerns-150822/)
Oh, the irony
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 24 August 2015, 04:24:26
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 24 August 2015, 04:43:54
I experienced my PC starting itself up last night. My gf was in the room when it happened, but she is convinced it's a virus.
Is Wake on LAN enabled, and something on your network is sending spurious packets?
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 24 August 2015, 04:49:22
Is Wake on LAN enabled
Not that I'm aware of.
and something on your network is sending spurious packets?
I don't think so. It doesn't routinely boot up every night, and i'm not sure if there is something sending random packets some nights more than others.
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 24 August 2015, 05:51:46
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 24 August 2015, 05:55:15
Or a weird power fluctuation? My Mac does that sometimes if something happens in the same room, like the kettle boiling while the Mac is asleep, it will sometimes spontaneously wake itself up.
Jeez Rowdy keep it down bro, your mac is tryin to sleep!
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 24 August 2015, 06:13:57
It's actually not that hard. Switch to Linux, use VPNs or ssh, use encryption. Hell, they're struggling even to get a handle on Tor.
Dude... as soon as you're on tor, you're on the Po-Po's LIST...
Also, don't use tor... Fantastic concept... not a good follow through as of now... it's like jailbroken internet...
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 24 August 2015, 06:39:54
Still works as intended minus the mobile phone interface (truly despise Win 8 on wards with such passion).
Win 7 can still be customized to what ever you require and works quite effectively with numerous peripherals and has numerous drivers available for it.
Still trying out LinuxMint 17.2 and am quite surprised with it's ability to set up and run some of my hardware. Brilliant as a web machine and email correspondence so this maybe my permanent set up from now on :thumb: .
Post by: godly_music on Mon, 24 August 2015, 07:46:04
Dude... as soon as you're on tor, you're on the Po-Po's LIST...
Also, don't use tor... Fantastic concept... not a good follow through as of now... it's like jailbroken internet...
I'm not saying use it. Certainly not for anything sensitive. I'm saying they can't get through it, and not for lack of trying. SSL/TLS on the other hand, we can assume they've already cracked or social engineered their way into.
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 24 August 2015, 16:45:46
That gives a slightly more balanced look (or "pro-Microsoft", if you prefer).
If anyone still needs to use a Windows OS what's so bad about Windows 7 Pro/Ultimate?
Win 7 can still be customized to what ever you require and works quite effectively with numerous peripherals and has numerous drivers available for it.
You could also say this about Windows XP. And in a few years time when Windows 7 support ends (for the nth time, we will probably, reluctantly, be discussing upgrading to whatever Microsoft have produced then.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 24 August 2015, 22:09:32
Dude... as soon as you're on tor, you're on the Po-Po's LIST...
Also, don't use tor... Fantastic concept... not a good follow through as of now... it's like jailbroken internet...
I'm not saying use it. Certainly not for anything sensitive. I'm saying they can't get through it, and not for lack of trying. SSL/TLS on the other hand, we can assume they've already cracked or social engineered their way into.
Also, you know that pangu ipho unlock.. seriously.. CHINESE team, release an IPHO unlocker..
If that's not government sponsored hacking, IDK what is..
hahahahahahha Newbs...
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 24 August 2015, 22:25:29
You could also say this about Windows XP. And in a few years time when Windows 7 support ends (for the nth time, we will probably, reluctantly, be discussing upgrading to whatever Microsoft have produced then.
Probably by then, I would move on over completely to some Linux Distribution only because Microsoft will be going in the opposite direction to where I want to be going.
Don't forget Microsoft is losing market share not building it year by year, especially within business circles, we already have some weird BSD setup that the entire company relies upon and has not yet died on us, compared to previous installs of Windows NT 3.51 and the NT 4.0 versions that routinely failed and took nearly forever to rectify.
Not saying that Linux will one day take over but our business which use to pay large amounts of money (per year) for MS support has now gone with a different operating system and cut the costs in support down by half.
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 25 August 2015, 03:18:00
If anyone still needs to use a Windows OS what's so bad about Windows 7 Pro/Ultimate?Win7 is not innocent either, the same fears were out there when it was released just to a lesser extent, and in both cases some can be disabled and some cannot. Expect the next major Windows OS or update to have even fewer privacy options.
The dirty little secret being drowned out inline by the Win10 talk is that they backported the telemetry system from Win10 into everything clear back to Win7. This can be removed, if you know the packages, or just not update, but every update brings risk. Many I.T. people are just doing security patches only, but with how MS handled the Win10 upgrade notification, you can't really trust Microsoft's method of labeling it a security patch. The Win10 update was marked critical.
In the end though, if it's online, it goes through several routers, all of which can be tracking what you do and where you go.
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 25 August 2015, 05:23:34
I don't really do much of anything on the Windows box except games.
I wish I had the same choice at work, but our software is primarily Windows and we need to keep up with our clients, or at least thoroughly test everything on each new Windows release.
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 26 August 2015, 04:09:36
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 26 August 2015, 07:14:03
Windows 10 automatically spies on your children and sends you a dossier of their activity (https://boingboing.net/2015/08/10/windows-10.html)
And of course, the email wasn't sent from the kid's PC, so the data came from an MS server... So the data was collected by Win10 and SENT to the MS server. And the only way to turn it off is in an accounts setting on another MS server... it requires the child to log on to then update the settings locally, from the online server. Doesn't say it stops collecting the data, just that it won't send you a report on it.
You can argue 'til you're blue in the face about how MS isn't going to use the data it collects immorally, but I'd just point you to all the immoral things MS has done in the past and let you draw your own conclusion. MS is not your trusted buddy and should not be treated like they are. Quarantine that crap.
About Win7, of course one of the most important parts of making the customised install is removing updates. Get a good build with all you need, disable / remove any junk and enjoy your PC. I have yet to see a vulnerability that a security patch fixes that would affect any machine that's carefully used (no MS Office, no Flash, no dodgy websites, no dodgy software, use a decent well setup router).
I haven't had any malware on my machines since I stopped getting games from friends on floppy discs that had been inserted into more drives than.... well, I won't go there.
Post by: iMav on Fri, 28 August 2015, 11:24:25
Post by: dante on Fri, 28 August 2015, 17:51:33
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 28 August 2015, 21:58:30
How many more versions until Microsoft abandons Metro all together?
How many more versions until Microsoft UI designers can agree on menus and icons?
The Mac is very consistent in that area - one company builds the hardware and writes the operating system and utilities, and has fairly strict guidelines on how applications should look and feel. Walled garden? Maybe, but everything Just Works, everything works pretty much exactly the same, and everything looks consistent.
I will grant that GNU/Linux is a mishmash of different visual styles and menus and icons and everything else, which is kinda to be expected as each part of the OS and GUI comes from a different source.
You'd at least hope that one Microsoft application would look and act like other Microsoft applications.
Post by: dante on Fri, 28 August 2015, 22:53:46
The Mac is very consistent in that area - one company builds the hardware and writes the operating system and utilities, and has fairly strict guidelines on how applications should look and feel. Walled garden? Maybe, but everything Just Works, everything works pretty much exactly the same, and everything looks consistent.
I don't own a Mac anymore but one of my big issues with OSX is whenever an update would roll out a number of my apps would break; and then I'd have to wait for updates on those apps. Needless to say after a while I held out on updates as long as possible.
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 28 August 2015, 23:14:53
Luckily, I've outgrown the AAA game types.
Eventually, The only thing I'll upgrade for is some sort of New Memory/Storage architecture that they'll stop supporting on Windows 7..
Post by: iMav on Sat, 29 August 2015, 03:15:07
I have nothing to contribute other than state I'll be moving to Linux full-time after Win 7 support ends; primarily Mint xfce and Knoppix.
I, primarily, re-introduced Windows to my home several years ago once I started working for security vendors. Need platforms on which to eat my employers own dog food. :)
As I have mentioned several times before, as a former, long-time UNIX admin, I was completely disinterested in Macs until OS X was released. Macs have held a prominent place in my computing life ever since. (as has linux since around 1994)
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 29 August 2015, 05:53:48
The Mac is very consistent in that area - one company builds the hardware and writes the operating system and utilities, and has fairly strict guidelines on how applications should look and feel. Walled garden? Maybe, but everything Just Works, everything works pretty much exactly the same, and everything looks consistent.
I don't own a Mac anymore but one of my big issues with OSX is whenever an update would roll out a number of my apps would break; and then I'd have to wait for updates on those apps. Needless to say after a while I held out on updates as long as possible.
Maybe I've been lucky, but I went from 10.4 to 10.5, and then 10.6 (admittedly 10.6 on a new Mac, but the same apps) and no breakages.
I waited to go to 10.7 'cause a few apps I had were not immediately supported. Time passed and 10.8 came out, same excuse. More time passed and 10.9 came out. Same excuse again, although this time I actually got a replacement HDD for my Mac). Even more time passed and 10.10 came out.
Now I think most if not all of the apps I use work on 10.9, and I'd hesitate to upgrade further as 10.10 does not run spectacularly well on my old Mac.
Back on topic, I've heard rumours that some of the third party libraries we are heavily dependent on at work for our Windows apps don't run on Windows 10. If that's true, then 7 (or 8.1 as one or two hardy individuals have suffered) will be the end of the line until the next major rewrite is ready.
I, primarily, re-introduced Windows to my home several years ago once I started working for security vendors. Need platforms on which to eat my employers own dog food. :)
As I have mentioned several times before, as a former, long-time UNIX admin, I was completely disinterested in Macs until OS X was released. Macs have held a prominent place in my computing life ever since. (as has linux since around 1994)
It has been said that OS X is Unix with a GUI done well on top. I would more or less agree with that, although Apple have moved a lot of Unixy files around. However the GUI does just work, and it is easy to forget that you are working on a Unix-like system on the Mac. Compare that to GNU/Linux where I am constantly reminded.
OTOH Windows has almost none of the Unix utilities that I am used to, so I know exactly when I am stuck on Windows.
Post by: njbair on Sat, 29 August 2015, 11:51:47
I have nothing to contribute other than state I'll be moving to Linux full-time after Win 7 support ends; primarily Mint xfce and Knoppix.
I, primarily, re-introduced Windows to my home several years ago once I started working for security vendors. Need platforms on which to eat my employers own dog food. :)
As I have mentioned several times before, as a former, long-time UNIX admin, I was completely disinterested in Macs until OS X was released. Macs have held a prominent place in my computing life ever since. (as has linux since around 1994)
This is pretty much my experience--hadn't used Windows since about 2002 when I switched to Gentoo Linux. I used Linux almost exclusively up until about three years ago when my new job demanded a Windows environment. These days at work I mainly use the most recent Windows version (currently on 10 with zero issues). A large part of my professional IT work is now Windows Server support along with Azure Active Directory & Office 365, but I also maintain a number of remote Linux installations for web servers and the like. I also have a 2011 iMac on the other leg of my L-shaped desk.
My personal desktop runs Ubuntu. I switched from Arch Linux a few years ago because keeping current was becoming too difficult (and you really have to keep current to maintain a running Arch box, as they are known for breaking their own compatibility at times...it's a Linux enthusiast's distro). My personal laptop right now is a Chromebook Pixel. I probably wouldn't buy it again, since I often wish I had access to my Adobe CS apps from my laptop. But if I hadn't gotten the Pixel I probably would've gotten a MacBook Pro, which cost about $1K more than the Pixel, and I really don't know how efficient I could be in Photoshop or Indesign on a 13-inch screen, so maybe it's all for the better.
Post by: digi on Wed, 02 September 2015, 10:05:03
I literally turned off every Privacy switch in the control panel and had to disable all that stupid Camera / Web Browsing prediction stuff during Setup. I think their still watching me though.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 02 September 2015, 21:50:50
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 03 September 2015, 00:38:23
WINDOWS! EVERYTHING SUNNY ALL THE TIME ALWAYS, GOOD TIME BEACH PARTY!
microsoft windows alt account? ;)
Post by: godly_music on Thu, 03 September 2015, 13:14:30
Post by: digi on Thu, 03 September 2015, 13:16:58
Good news to all Windows 10 fanboys and prolific Kool-Aid drinkers! Now, as an unlimited time offer, Windows Update will deliver to your Windows 7 or Windows 8 machine the same telemetry services you've come to know and love from Windows 10, free of charge! (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
That's actually really good to know, thanks for sharing the link
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 03 September 2015, 13:41:38
Good news to all Windows 10 fanboys and prolific Kool-Aid drinkers! Now, as an unlimited time offer, Windows Update will deliver to your Windows 7 or Windows 8 machine the same telemetry services you've come to know and love from Windows 10, free of charge! (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
That's actually really good to know, thanks for sharing the link
Wow that's interesting. I get that MS (and Apple and Google by the way) all want to know what their installs are being used for, but it seems quite excessive.
So I need to disable and hide those updates.
And I need to block:
vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
settings-win.data.microsoft.com
Are there other hosts I need to block?
Post by: godly_music on Thu, 03 September 2015, 13:57:29
KB2952664
KB2976978
KB2977759
KB2990214
KB3021917
KB3022345
KB3035583
KB3044374
KB3050265
KB3050267
KB3058168
KB3068708
KB3075249
KB3080149
Not all of these may apply, they're collected from Windows 7 and 8, and Microsoft doesn't serve both OSes the same stuff. However, what you should do is check each non Security related update by hand from now on. The description is usually a dead giveaway.
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 03 September 2015, 17:46:48
I think as long as you don't install the data mining services, you shouldn't have to touch the hosts file at all. The troublesome Updates are the following:
KB2952664
KB2976978
KB2977759
KB2990214
KB3021917
KB3022345
KB3035583
KB3044374
KB3050265
KB3050267
KB3058168
KB3068708
KB3075249
KB3080149
Not all of these may apply, they're collected from Windows 7 and 8, and Microsoft doesn't serve both OSes the same stuff. However, what you should do is check each non Security related update by hand from now on. The description is usually a dead giveaway.
Thanks for the heads-up!
I generally tend to hang off of installing updates on 7 for a little while, until it is convenient to reboot and until I know none of them causes critical failures.
I have about half of those in the list - now unselected. Phew!
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 04 September 2015, 08:10:12
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 04 September 2015, 08:16:32
where are the win10 fanboys?
Working. It's only the apple fanbois who have time to be fanboys. :p
Edit: sorry came across too salty; you apple peeps know that I love you :-*
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 04 September 2015, 08:18:11
where are the win10 fanboys?
I love the One Drive link between my Windows phone and Win10. I don't ever have to connect my phone to my PC ever again. Pictures are almost instantly transferred to my PC after I take them.
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 04 September 2015, 08:21:44
where are the win10 fanboys?
I love the One Drive link between my Windows phone and Win10. I don't ever have to connect my phone to my PC ever again. Pictures are almost instantly transferred to my PC after I take them.
**** like this makes me wish I didn't have an iphone because wifi sync just dosn't work and my iphone is forced to interface with itunes which never works lol
Post by: njbair on Fri, 04 September 2015, 08:47:43
where are the win10 fanboys?
I love the One Drive link between my Windows phone and Win10. I don't ever have to connect my phone to my PC ever again. Pictures are almost instantly transferred to my PC after I take them.
**** like this makes me wish I didn't have an iphone because wifi sync just dosn't work and my iphone is forced to interface with itunes which never works lol
Isn't that what iCloud is for? I mean, my Android phone does this with Google Photos.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 04 September 2015, 09:04:34
where are the win10 fanboys?
I love the One Drive link between my Windows phone and Win10. I don't ever have to connect my phone to my PC ever again. Pictures are almost instantly transferred to my PC after I take them.
**** like this makes me wish I didn't have an iphone because wifi sync just dosn't work and my iphone is forced to interface with itunes which never works lol
If you get iTunes Match and iCloud then the reasons to sync with your computer shrink quite a bit.
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 04 September 2015, 11:22:29
where are the win10 fanboys?
I love the One Drive link between my Windows phone and Win10. I don't ever have to connect my phone to my PC ever again. Pictures are almost instantly transferred to my PC after I take them.
**** like this makes me wish I didn't have an iphone because wifi sync just dosn't work and my iphone is forced to interface with itunes which never works lol
If you get iTunes Match and iCloud then the reasons to sync with your computer shrink quite a bit.
match costs too much and everytime I try and sync icloud it says i need to pay for more space
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 04 September 2015, 11:32:21
where are the win10 fanboys?
I love the One Drive link between my Windows phone and Win10. I don't ever have to connect my phone to my PC ever again. Pictures are almost instantly transferred to my PC after I take them.
**** like this makes me wish I didn't have an iphone because wifi sync just dosn't work and my iphone is forced to interface with itunes which never works lol
If you get iTunes Match and iCloud then the reasons to sync with your computer shrink quite a bit.
match costs too much and everytime I try and sync icloud it says i need to pay for more space
You can go into ICloud settings and delete old backups and stuff. You can also deselect what gets backed up there if you have it backed up somewhere else (like I have pics going to Dropbox so I don't need them on iCloud too). Maybe that could help.
I'm basically going out of my way to avoid iTunes however I can, even if I have to pay a few bucks a year.
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 04 September 2015, 12:52:06
I guess I should sort out my iCloud stuff though, but I think my picture and **** fill it up anyway? Idk
Post by: kishy on Sat, 05 September 2015, 12:36:06
The download and upgrade went smoothly. Some of my programs, motherboard utility software, were broken afterwards...but that's fine. I then realized there is a 'reset' function that essentially reinstalls as if it was fresh off the disk. Jackpot. Did that.
BSOD...inaccessible boot device. Apparently common. Not a damn clue why it happened. Must have written something it needed onto a storage device it shouldn't have. Oh well. Reinstalled from USB stick.
I then got into exploring things and the more things I changed, the more I wondered why I wasn't sticking with 7.
- Disallowed advertising ID sharing between apps, app access to language list, location, app access to name and account information, app access to hardware radios, access to contacts, camera and syncing data.
- Set diagnostic reports to Basic (since there is no disable)
- Disallowed apps running in the background
- Not using a Microsoft account, using a local Admin account
- UAC turned off including EnableLUA key set to 0
- Used PowerShell to uninstall all apps including Store (they don't work with UAC off anyway)
- Had to find an old Calculator to use instead of the app, since there is no non-app Calc on Win10
- Turned off Action Center, removed search in taskbar
- Disabled lock screen
- Disabled OneDrive via policy then uninstalled it, then changed a registry key to get rid of shell icons for it
- Removed 'most used' and all tiles from Start menu, made it one column only
- Disabled Homegroup services
- Removed taskbar from second monitor
- Set Windows Updates to install when I tell them to, and to defer upgrades
Still on the to-do list, find a way to obliterate Cortana and Edge, which seem to be very difficult to remove without side-effects, as well as eliminate any further home-phoning it may try to do. I will most likely also build scheduled tasks to make Windows Update downloads only occur when I want (by way of disabling the service and enabling on a schedule for specified time windows)
I have no privacy concern whatsoever about the information this particular computer is used for. I just don't like that the above functionality exists in the OS at all.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 06 September 2015, 05:48:09
I got sick and tired of the Aero crap at work and switched my Windows 7 back to classic - it has been much more usable since then.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 06 September 2015, 07:16:14
So I updated to Win10. I allowed it to activate, to generate whatever sort of hardware key it uses to activate (still a mystery to me where it stored it), so that I could then use bootable media to properly wipe and install. I suspect they've improved the upgrade process since XP, but that is not a confidence that will be easily earned (goal being upgrade to get the free product key entitlement, then wipe it)
The download and upgrade went smoothly. Some of my programs, motherboard utility software, were broken afterwards...but that's fine. I then realized there is a 'reset' function that essentially reinstalls as if it was fresh off the disk. Jackpot. Did that.
BSOD...inaccessible boot device. Apparently common. Not a damn clue why it happened. Must have written something it needed onto a storage device it shouldn't have. Oh well. Reinstalled from USB stick.
I then got into exploring things and the more things I changed, the more I wondered why I wasn't sticking with 7.
- Disallowed advertising ID sharing between apps, app access to language list, location, app access to name and account information, app access to hardware radios, access to contacts, camera and syncing data.
- Set diagnostic reports to Basic (since there is no disable)
- Disallowed apps running in the background
- Not using a Microsoft account, using a local Admin account
- UAC turned off including EnableLUA key set to 0
- Used PowerShell to uninstall all apps including Store (they don't work with UAC off anyway)
- Had to find an old Calculator to use instead of the app, since there is no non-app Calc on Win10
- Turned off Action Center, removed search in taskbar
- Disabled lock screen
- Disabled OneDrive via policy then uninstalled it, then changed a registry key to get rid of shell icons for it
- Removed 'most used' and all tiles from Start menu, made it one column only
- Disabled Homegroup services
- Removed taskbar from second monitor
- Set Windows Updates to install when I tell them to, and to defer upgrades
Still on the to-do list, find a way to obliterate Cortana and Edge, which seem to be very difficult to remove without side-effects, as well as eliminate any further home-phoning it may try to do. I will most likely also build scheduled tasks to make Windows Update downloads only occur when I want (by way of disabling the service and enabling on a schedule for specified time windows)
I have no privacy concern whatsoever about the information this particular computer is used for. I just don't like that the above functionality exists in the OS at all.
Yeah bro you just hacked your W10 install back to W7.
Post by: kishy on Sun, 06 September 2015, 09:43:17
- Disallowed advertising ID sharing between apps, app access to language list, location, app access to name and account information, app access to hardware radios, access to contacts, camera and syncing data.
- Set diagnostic reports to Basic (since there is no disable)
- Disallowed apps running in the background
- Not using a Microsoft account, using a local Admin account
- UAC turned off including EnableLUA key set to 0
- Used PowerShell to uninstall all apps including Store (they don't work with UAC off anyway)
- Had to find an old Calculator to use instead of the app, since there is no non-app Calc on Win10
- Turned off Action Center, removed search in taskbar
- Disabled lock screen
- Disabled OneDrive via policy then uninstalled it, then changed a registry key to get rid of shell icons for it
- Removed 'most used' and all tiles from Start menu, made it one column only
- Disabled Homegroup services
- Removed taskbar from second monitor
- Set Windows Updates to install when I tell them to, and to defer upgrades
Further changes made:
- File Explorer set to go to This PC on open
- Folders removed from This PC, only display drives
- Quick Access removed from Explorer
- Menus turned back on for windows which support them
- Hiding extensions turned off
- Sharing Wizard turned off
Still to-do:
- Completely remove Cortana
- Completely remove Edge
- Eliminate any further home-phoning it may try to do
- Build scheduled tasks to make Windows Update downloads only occur when I want (by way of disabling the service and enabling on a schedule for specified time windows)
- Try to figure out if I can repurpose 'most used' in the Start menu to store user-specified shortcuts, rather than MRU list, so I can keep my Start menu only one column wide and still have things in it
- Stop Explorer from displaying removable storage devices twice in the 'tree' on the left (one inside of This PC, a second outside of This PC)
- Relocate personal folder items (Downloads, desktop etc) to second drive. Easy to do and relatively unchanged from last version but too lazy to do right now. Ha.
- Fix 'downloads' in Start menu as I broke it while making one of the changes made so far, probably when I killed the registry keys for folders to appear in This PC...
That's a bucket full of changes to a raw install to make it usable. That says a lot about the usability of Windows to begin with i.e. that it is not very.
I got sick and tired of the Aero crap at work and switched my Windows 7 back to classic - it has been much more usable since then.
Honestly, it would be usable if I weren't very stubborn and stuck in my ways. I do like Aero as an appearance feature but I dislike things like Aero Shake, or the way snapping now works in Win10. Fortunately the snapping changes can be configured with settings.
Yeah bro you just hacked your W10 install back to W7.
Getting there, but not quite yet...
As one might infer from my change list I could very comfortably use Windows 2000 for my daily computing needs, were it not for application compatibility issues and the knowledge that IE6 is still lurking around.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 06 September 2015, 12:05:20
- Disallowed advertising ID sharing between apps, app access to language list, location, app access to name and account information, app access to hardware radios, access to contacts, camera and syncing data.
- Set diagnostic reports to Basic (since there is no disable)
- Disallowed apps running in the background
- Not using a Microsoft account, using a local Admin account
- UAC turned off including EnableLUA key set to 0
- Used PowerShell to uninstall all apps including Store (they don't work with UAC off anyway)
- Had to find an old Calculator to use instead of the app, since there is no non-app Calc on Win10
- Turned off Action Center, removed search in taskbar
- Disabled lock screen
- Disabled OneDrive via policy then uninstalled it, then changed a registry key to get rid of shell icons for it
- Removed 'most used' and all tiles from Start menu, made it one column only
- Disabled Homegroup services
- Removed taskbar from second monitor
- Set Windows Updates to install when I tell them to, and to defer upgrades
Further changes made:
- File Explorer set to go to This PC on open
- Folders removed from This PC, only display drives
- Quick Access removed from Explorer
- Menus turned back on for windows which support them
- Hiding extensions turned off
- Sharing Wizard turned off
Still to-do:
- Completely remove Cortana
- Completely remove Edge
- Eliminate any further home-phoning it may try to do
- Build scheduled tasks to make Windows Update downloads only occur when I want (by way of disabling the service and enabling on a schedule for specified time windows)
- Try to figure out if I can repurpose 'most used' in the Start menu to store user-specified shortcuts, rather than MRU list, so I can keep my Start menu only one column wide and still have things in it
- Stop Explorer from displaying removable storage devices twice in the 'tree' on the left (one inside of This PC, a second outside of This PC)
- Relocate personal folder items (Downloads, desktop etc) to second drive. Easy to do and relatively unchanged from last version but too lazy to do right now. Ha.
- Fix 'downloads' in Start menu as I broke it while making one of the changes made so far, probably when I killed the registry keys for folders to appear in This PC...
That's a bucket full of changes to a raw install to make it usable. That says a lot about the usability of Windows to begin with i.e. that it is not very.
I got sick and tired of the Aero crap at work and switched my Windows 7 back to classic - it has been much more usable since then.
Honestly, it would be usable if I weren't very stubborn and stuck in my ways. I do like Aero as an appearance feature but I dislike things like Aero Shake, or the way snapping now works in Win10. Fortunately the snapping changes can be configured with settings.Yeah bro you just hacked your W10 install back to W7.
Getting there, but not quite yet...
As one might infer from my change list I could very comfortably use Windows 2000 for my daily computing needs, were it not for application compatibility issues and the knowledge that IE6 is still lurking around.
You probably know this but I think you can disable IE through group policy, but there's not much way to deal with the app compatibility...usually it's the other way around (old application that needs legacy OS).
By the way it's good to see you around, Kishy!
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 06 September 2015, 16:04:31
Post by: jerue on Sun, 06 September 2015, 18:45:27
Anyways, I can see where the Windows updater has attempted to download Win10 at least 10 times, and gets stuck at around 1GB of the download each time. I am running a VM of 10 at work, however Virtualbox does NOT like that my dummy laptop only has 4GB of ram, and I've requested an upgrade...so maybe I'll get to use Win10 for more than 2 seconds someday.
edit: went into my network adapter's settings and disabled any energy efficient settings. didn't see anything specifically for "stay awake dammit", but have both ports set to wake for any activity.
I don't like the idea of giving Apple anymore money on the basis that Apple Music is such an abhorrent service and program. It's ****ed up my music and stopped me from syncing all my playlists, as well as totally ****ing them up in iTunes.
I guess I should sort out my iCloud stuff though, but I think my picture and **** fill it up anyway? Idk
These are the types of statements that make me not want to get an iPhone and stick with Android and/or Blackberry.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 06 September 2015, 21:45:47
It's ****ed up my music and stopped me from syncing all my playlists, as well as totally ****ing them up in iTunes.
I am a crusty and paranoid old man, so I hate all of that weird Apple stuff.
My (huge) music collection is stored (on internal and external archive hard drives) in conventional directory tree structure:
E:\-MP3 collection\Rock\Beatles\1966 Revolver\901 - Taxman.mp3
and I don't even know what a playlist is. I also avoid "Libraries" whenever I can and don't understand how they relate to stored music.
My music files are cataloged and stored and archived just like my documents and photographs and everything else.
The concept of an arcane and proprietary "lock" on a particular category of my "content collection" frightens me.
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 07 September 2015, 00:51:05
Having working library software is invaluable and is something that's been kind of lost. Despite iTunes being hateful it's still better than it used to be in the days of MusicMatch Jukebox and similar programs. But as iTunes gets worse and worse and just ****s up my **** more and more, I'm less likely to care and be interested in putting up with its ****. The only problem is the next best thing is Foobar3k (?) which is as easy to use and get to grips with as Linux always claims to be and has a pretty large learning/setting up curve... But yeah when my contact is due for renewal next year I'll see if I can make the switch away from iTunes and iPhone.
Apple only need to fix there **** and I'd be happy...
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 07 September 2015, 07:29:53
I have an internal 300gb HD with all my music on, including that which is iTunes (for the most part), but having all your music properly laid out with album art etc and then curated playlists (that I made) one or two clicks away from being played at all times is very useful.
Having working library software is invaluable and is something that's been kind of lost. Despite iTunes being hateful it's still better than it used to be in the days of MusicMatch Jukebox and similar programs. But as iTunes gets worse and worse and just ****s up my **** more and more, I'm less likely to care and be interested in putting up with its ****. The only problem is the next best thing is Foobar3k (?) which is as easy to use and get to grips with as Linux always claims to be and has a pretty large learning/setting up curve... But yeah when my contact is due for renewal next year I'll see if I can make the switch away from iTunes and iPhone.
Apple only need to fix there **** and I'd be happy...
I agree. I haven't updated iTunes on my computers in a while just cause it has gotten worse and worse.
They add on features, splicing them in, making it unstable and unreliable, having to keep old compatibility but new doodads...oh wait, this is iTunes and not Windows we're talking about...
They need to "nuke the entire site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure..." and just redesign the whole thing from the ground up.
Post by: godly_music on Mon, 07 September 2015, 13:23:22
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 07 September 2015, 21:51:28
Microsoft intensifies data collection on Windows 7 and 8 systems (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
Post by: Elrick on Mon, 07 September 2015, 23:46:53
Windows 10 Worst Feature Now Installing On Windows 7 And Windows 8 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/06/windows-10-worst-feature-now-installing-on-windows-7-and-windows-8/)
Microsoft intensifies data collection on Windows 7 and 8 systems (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
No probs, I've stopped updating my systems some time ago 8) .
Maybe time to rock on back to Vista SP2 x64, yet again........
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 08 September 2015, 00:12:55
Windows 10 Worst Feature Now Installing On Windows 7 And Windows 8 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/06/windows-10-worst-feature-now-installing-on-windows-7-and-windows-8/)
Microsoft intensifies data collection on Windows 7 and 8 systems (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
No probs, I've stopped updating my systems some time ago 8) .
Maybe time to rock on back to Vista SP2 x64, yet again........
Vista? Ewwwwwwwww
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 08 September 2015, 05:02:27
... the more things I changed, the more I wondered why I wasn't sticking with 7.
...
Yup, I don't see any need to change from Win7 64 bit. Win10 brings nothing to the table for me, but takes a lot away.
Win7 x64 ISO file and RTSe7enLite... take back control. You can choose every component and most settings during the configuration. Then make an unattended install disk, boot from it, choose partition and... fully customised, set up and safe Win7 without requiring any further interaction (you can choose which updates to apply during installation).
Boot a well customised (bloat-free) Win7 build from an SSD and you know what speed is :D The best part is that it doesn't slowly bloat / slow itself over time (depending on what components you've chosen), it remains responsive and predictable.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 08 September 2015, 07:59:10
Win7 x64 ISO file and RTSe7enLite... take back control. You can choose every component and most settings during the configuration. Then make an unattended install disk, boot from it, choose partition and... fully customised, set up and safe Win7 without requiring any further interaction (you can choose which updates to apply during installation).
This sounds good, but the site seems a little old. The downloads refer to " .... x86 ...." doesn't that indicate the 32-bit version?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 08 September 2015, 08:12:00
Why are you wanting to get rid of Edge and Cortana? Just don't use them?
Cortana does not function outside of the US currently, so it's dead functionality. I've removed the UI elements but I'm irritated that the background components are there at all. To be honest even if it worked I'd still want to get rid of it. I'm pretty sure it/she has integration with things like the Maps app which I ditched since, in my humble opinion, it sucks. With all the removing I did of next to everything, it/she can't work very well anyway.
You probably know this but I think you can disable IE through group policy, but there's not much way to deal with the app compatibility...usually it's the other way around (old application that needs legacy OS).
By the way it's good to see you around, Kishy!
As it happens, I want to keep IE. I don't use it often, but some websites do cooperate better with it, so I like to have it for those situations.
It's its new sibling Edge I want to nuke. Edge is already disabled to the point of being unable to open, via side-effect of turning off UAC - turn it off, apps stop working, including Edge. Bear in mind that the slider bar all the way to the bottom does not turn off UAC, just its prompts. Setting EnableLUA to 0 in the registry disables the linking/token action and all programs run as Administrator at all times by default. This basically undoes all of the anti-privilege-escalation technology introduced in Vista but I'm OK with that.
And thanks...always liked this community, just got buried in responsibilities. Bought a house.
Yup, I don't see any need to change from Win7 64 bit. Win10 brings nothing to the table for me, but takes a lot away.
Win7 x64 ISO file and RTSe7enLite... take back control. You can choose every component and most settings during the configuration. Then make an unattended install disk, boot from it, choose partition and... fully customised, set up and safe Win7 without requiring any further interaction (you can choose which updates to apply during installation).
Boot a well customised (bloat-free) Win7 build from an SSD and you know what speed is :D The best part is that it doesn't slowly bloat / slow itself over time (depending on what components you've chosen), it remains responsive and predictable.
Well, my main goal in upgrading with this particular machine was to see if I can "deal with it" and I am increasingly feeling that I'm not sure if I can. There will come a point in the future when it is preferable to have 10 for security updates...but then you have to get into the topic of what exactly security is, and if functionality designed into the OS is already violating it...
I have yet to decide if I'm updating my mother's laptop, and I know for certain that for at least the near future my ThinkPad will not be getting 10, in either case not due to lack of capability but due to concern over how it will impact the user.
The ThinkPad, btw, has an i7-2760QM, 16GB of RAM, two SSDs and a spinning disk. I definitely know how fast Win7 can be...but the desktop with the i5-2500k has 8GB and also an SSD. 10 does edge out (pun?) 7 for boot time, but I'm not sure that the literal two or three second difference is that big of a deal.
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 08 September 2015, 08:37:46
If not, you don't need any security updates. If there are some, you can cherry pick the updates you want in the configuration.
I have concluded that even the security updates are not useful to me.
Post by: FreeCopy on Tue, 08 September 2015, 10:44:00
Why are you wanting to get rid of Edge and Cortana? Just don't use them?
Cortana does not function outside of the US currently, so it's dead functionality. I've removed the UI elements but I'm irritated that the background components are there at all. To be honest even if it worked I'd still want to get rid of it. I'm pretty sure it/she has integration with things like the Maps app which I ditched since, in my humble opinion, it sucks. With all the removing I did of next to everything, it/she can't work very well anyway.You probably know this but I think you can disable IE through group policy, but there's not much way to deal with the app compatibility...usually it's the other way around (old application that needs legacy OS).
By the way it's good to see you around, Kishy!
As it happens, I want to keep IE. I don't use it often, but some websites do cooperate better with it, so I like to have it for those situations.
It's its new sibling Edge I want to nuke. Edge is already disabled to the point of being unable to open, via side-effect of turning off UAC - turn it off, apps stop working, including Edge. Bear in mind that the slider bar all the way to the bottom does not turn off UAC, just its prompts. Setting EnableLUA to 0 in the registry disables the linking/token action and all programs run as Administrator at all times by default. This basically undoes all of the anti-privilege-escalation technology introduced in Vista but I'm OK with that.
And thanks...always liked this community, just got buried in responsibilities. Bought a house.Yup, I don't see any need to change from Win7 64 bit. Win10 brings nothing to the table for me, but takes a lot away.
Win7 x64 ISO file and RTSe7enLite... take back control. You can choose every component and most settings during the configuration. Then make an unattended install disk, boot from it, choose partition and... fully customised, set up and safe Win7 without requiring any further interaction (you can choose which updates to apply during installation).
Boot a well customised (bloat-free) Win7 build from an SSD and you know what speed is :D The best part is that it doesn't slowly bloat / slow itself over time (depending on what components you've chosen), it remains responsive and predictable.
Well, my main goal in upgrading with this particular machine was to see if I can "deal with it" and I am increasingly feeling that I'm not sure if I can. There will come a point in the future when it is preferable to have 10 for security updates...but then you have to get into the topic of what exactly security is, and if functionality designed into the OS is already violating it...
I have yet to decide if I'm updating my mother's laptop, and I know for certain that for at least the near future my ThinkPad will not be getting 10, in either case not due to lack of capability but due to concern over how it will impact the user.
The ThinkPad, btw, has an i7-2760QM, 16GB of RAM, two SSDs and a spinning disk. I definitely know how fast Win7 can be...but the desktop with the i5-2500k has 8GB and also an SSD. 10 does edge out (pun?) 7 for boot time, but I'm not sure that the literal two or three second difference is that big of a deal.
I followed this and it seemed to work on killing Cortana. There was some other useful information in that thread as well: https://rbt.asia/g/thread/S49344553#p49347106
Post by: DrOizo on Thu, 10 September 2015, 07:38:09
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 10 September 2015, 21:44:16
Can i update to Windows 10 from a non genuine Version of Windows 7?
Probably not.
Everything Microsoft have said hangs off you having a validly activated installation of Windows 7 to begin with.
There were rumours before Win 10 was released that MS would allow everyone to upgrade, even if you did not have a valid installation or 7 or 8, and everyone was rejoicing. But that was quickly retracted.
Post by: absyrd on Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:01:24
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 13 September 2015, 05:31:53
Can i update to Windows 10 from a non genuine Version of Windows 7?
I had a VERY good cracked copy of Win 7 and it let me upgrade. I think so long as you have the correct prompts and notifications, you will be OK with the upgrade. I've not had any issues with authentication.
Post by: Oobly on Mon, 14 September 2015, 04:59:24
Windows 10 Worst Feature Now Installing On Windows 7 And Windows 8 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/06/windows-10-worst-feature-now-installing-on-windows-7-and-windows-8/)
Microsoft intensifies data collection on Windows 7 and 8 systems (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
Those updates have been pushed by my company to both my work machines. Fortunately I have been granted permission to uninstall and hide them :) But I am concerned about how it affects our company security overall.
MS is trying to become a services company instead of a products company and I fear it will not go well for them except for some diehards using Office 365. Which is really still a "product".
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 14 September 2015, 05:42:33
Windows 10 Worst Feature Now Installing On Windows 7 And Windows 8 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/09/06/windows-10-worst-feature-now-installing-on-windows-7-and-windows-8/)
Microsoft intensifies data collection on Windows 7 and 8 systems (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/microsoft-intensifies-data-collection-on-windows-7-and-8-systems/)
Those updates have been pushed by my company to both my work machines. Fortunately I have been granted permission to uninstall and hide them :) But I am concerned about how it affects our company security overall.
MS is trying to become a services company instead of a products company and I fear it will not go well for them except for some diehards using Office 365. Which is really still a "product".
Few of these big companies seem to be immune to security vulnerabilities, at least that we know about.
Microsoft has had some problems, Apple too. I keep asking myself whether it is a matter of time before they have a really huge breakin and someone steals terabytes of the sort of information they collect about the users.
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 15 September 2015, 01:52:06
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:31:49
You can't launch the calculator if the UAC is off, I didn't trust it, up until I saw it.
Seriously?
Microsoft have no idea what they are doing.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:42:41
You can't launch the calculator if the UAC is off, I didn't trust it, up until I saw it.
wait what? I'm pretty sure I have launched the calculator and I turned off uac as as i could
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:48:07
You can't launch the calculator if the UAC is off, I didn't trust it, up until I saw it.
wait what? I'm pretty sure I have launched the calculator and I turned off uac as as i could
What has UAC got to do with the calculator anyway?
That has got to be one of the most innocuous applications ever!
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:50:01
In french sorry,
"Can't open this application"
"Can't open calculator while the UAC is disabled"
"Activate UAC"
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 15 September 2015, 06:02:07
Show Image(http://puu.sh/kc1te/76d259e718.png)
In french sorry,
"Can't open this application"
"Can't open calculator while the UAC is disabled"
"Activate UAC"
(http://www.slicktiger.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/yo-dawg-thats-****ed-up1.jpg)
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 15 September 2015, 06:50:05
Show Image(http://puu.sh/kc1te/76d259e718.png)
In french sorry,
"Can't open this application"
"Can't open calculator while the UAC is disabled"
"Activate UAC"
weird, I'll have a crack tonight and see if I get the same msg
Post by: kishy on Tue, 15 September 2015, 07:48:01
Note that the slider in Control Panel only adjusts the UAC notifications. It does not actually control UAC being active or not. The registry key EnableLUA being set to 0 is what actually disables UAC (specifically, the dual token limited user functionality - this makes all things run as admin all the time).
The registry key change to run all programs as Admin became necessary in Win8, though it existed prior, but the slider setting (or checkbox in Vista) was sufficient before. Anyone who uses or supports 'legacy' software has known about this little headache for quite some time.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 15 September 2015, 08:51:35
That is correct, and I noted it in my list of things I had to fix. The Win10 calc.exe is an App and Apps (none of them - not Edge, not Store, not anything) will function at all if UAC is disabled.
Note that the slider in Control Panel only adjusts the UAC notifications. It does not actually control UAC being active or not. The registry key EnableLUA being set to 0 is what actually disables UAC (specifically, the dual token limited user functionality - this makes all things run as admin all the time).
The registry key change to run all programs as Admin became necessary in Win8, though it existed prior, but the slider setting (or checkbox in Vista) was sufficient before. Anyone who uses or supports 'legacy' software has known about this little headache for quite some time.
ah ok so the UAC slider doesn't actually turn it off, just mutes it? Whats the (relative) difference between having it 'off' on the slider and manually setting it to 0?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 15 September 2015, 09:16:10
That is correct, and I noted it in my list of things I had to fix. The Win10 calc.exe is an App and Apps (none of them - not Edge, not Store, not anything) will function at all if UAC is disabled.
Note that the slider in Control Panel only adjusts the UAC notifications. It does not actually control UAC being active or not. The registry key EnableLUA being set to 0 is what actually disables UAC (specifically, the dual token limited user functionality - this makes all things run as admin all the time).
The registry key change to run all programs as Admin became necessary in Win8, though it existed prior, but the slider setting (or checkbox in Vista) was sufficient before. Anyone who uses or supports 'legacy' software has known about this little headache for quite some time.
ah ok so the UAC slider doesn't actually turn it off, just mutes it? Whats the (relative) difference between having it 'off' on the slider and manually setting it to 0?
If the registry key is not set to 0 but the slider is off, you will receive no prompts for escalation for a program to run as Admin. If the program tries to make a change that requires Admin in a way that is UAC compliant, it should figure it out automatically and work seamlessly.
If, however, you need to run a program that will misbehave when it does not run as admin (perhaps it needs access to a file location or mapped drive that exists under only the Administrator account) and is not UAC compliant (e.g. some obscure utility from 1997 that wants to write to C:\WINDOWS\TEMP or store its configuration in the registry), you have to right-click it and run as admin or create a shortcut that does the same. When the registry key is set to 0, "run as admin" happens every time.
Basically the way UAC works is, even if you're an admin, your account runs programs with non-admin access until admin is needed. The program can be given admin access by UAC on an as-needed basis, but programs that aren't designed consistent with Microsoft's standards may not behave correctly. Setting the registry key to 0 disables this behaviour and runs everything as admin.
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 15 September 2015, 09:20:48
Post by: kishy on Tue, 15 September 2015, 15:53:44
ah ok, tbf I feel like that is well beyond what I actually use my PC for these days
Right...ultimately most people can coexist with UAC and non-admin program access without problems. I do run into issues sometimes with some things I do, so I try to bypass that situation entirely.
Disabling UAC (as opposed to just disabling the notifications) is not necessary for the average user and probably majority of users.
Post by: njbair on Tue, 15 September 2015, 20:32:28
ah ok, tbf I feel like that is well beyond what I actually use my PC for these days
Right...ultimately most people can coexist with UAC and non-admin program access without problems. I do run into issues sometimes with some things I do, so I try to bypass that situation entirely.
Disabling UAC (as opposed to just disabling the notifications) is not necessary for the average user and probably majority of users.
So, just for the sake of anyone else here who might want to follow in your footsteps, I should point out that this is a really bad idea. You're undermining the single most important security measure on your computer--the gut check that keeps you from accidentally doing something stupid.
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 16 September 2015, 03:09:00
This morning's update has me stuck on login screen forever. Sigh. Proceed with caution.
You poor kids I've stopped updating Redmond's Garbage some time ago, simply because it's too much of a risk.
Besides I'm really liking Mint 17 which has surprised me quite a bit and since I've been using MS related garbage for years, can now say I really don't miss them whatsoever.
Post by: patachu on Wed, 16 September 2015, 03:32:01
- flat design abomination
- no backwards compatibility
- no customizability
- no way to actually have a proper administrator session
- same NTFS filesystem
- no improvements on DirectX
- embedded spyware and keylogger that can actually NOT be disabled, if you read and comprehend the EULA, it means windows has the right to do it, and own the "analytics" data they collect, and can do anything they want with it - i'm a security IT person and we're starting to see a lot of complications about this in administrations and other domains where windows machines will get upgraded to win10 willingly or not. "for free"
- abhorrent lack of security, opening the doors to new kind of attacks (serves you well! you were asking for it, why didn't you listen?)
- designed for tablets and cloud environment, it's more like a terminal/client OS than a proper PC OS.
- lack of commonsense in design, awkward handling.
well, it happened. that's why i'm staying the **** with WinXP x64 and Debian.
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 16 September 2015, 03:34:01
let's sum up the reasons why Win10 is the worst windows so far. i mean, worse than Millenium
And now I know your not old enough to have had to deal with ME.
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 16 September 2015, 05:29:58
let's sum up the reasons why Win10 is the worst windows so far. i mean, worse than Millenium and Vista combined.
- flat design abomination
- no backwards compatibility
- no customizability
- no way to actually have a proper administrator session
- same NTFS filesystem
- no improvements on DirectX
- embedded spyware and keylogger that can actually NOT be disabled, if you read and comprehend the EULA, it means windows has the right to do it, and own the "analytics" data they collect, and can do anything they want with it - i'm a security IT person and we're starting to see a lot of complications about this in administrations and other domains where windows machines will get upgraded to win10 willingly or not. "for free"
- abhorrent lack of security, opening the doors to new kind of attacks (serves you well! you were asking for it, why didn't you listen?)
- designed for tablets and cloud environment, it's more like a terminal/client OS than a proper PC OS.
- lack of commonsense in design, awkward handling.
well, it happened. that's why i'm staying the **** with WinXP x64 and Debian.
Summed it up PERFECTLY.
Better still move elsewhere and leave Microsoft where it belongs now, in the bin ready for pick-up to their next land-fill site :thumb: .
Post by: kishy on Wed, 16 September 2015, 08:46:51
ah ok, tbf I feel like that is well beyond what I actually use my PC for these days
Right...ultimately most people can coexist with UAC and non-admin program access without problems. I do run into issues sometimes with some things I do, so I try to bypass that situation entirely.
Disabling UAC (as opposed to just disabling the notifications) is not necessary for the average user and probably majority of users.
So, just for the sake of anyone else here who might want to follow in your footsteps, I should point out that this is a really bad idea. You're undermining the single most important security measure on your computer--the gut check that keeps you from accidentally doing something stupid.
This depends on your perspective. I want all processes to run elevated. Therefore, it is a bad idea to use an OS that has this protection (bad idea relative to my goals). I work around this with configuration that is made available by the OS developer. I have not, in however many years Windows 7 has been out, had a single issue as a result. I run questionable software that might do harm in a VM and I take backups to be able to go back to before an unauthorized malicious change (not that I've had to do so yet).
UAC serves a purpose and I agree that it is an important warning - "hey, something might happen that you don't want, are you sure you want to let it happen?" - but I'm content to carry on as I am.
If this 'app' model doesn't die off (and as much as I can hope, I know it won't) I will probably have to change at some point, but perhaps by then I won't have any meaningful reason other than stubbornness to turn off UAC anyway.
Post by: njbair on Wed, 16 September 2015, 09:03:50
ah ok, tbf I feel like that is well beyond what I actually use my PC for these days
Right...ultimately most people can coexist with UAC and non-admin program access without problems. I do run into issues sometimes with some things I do, so I try to bypass that situation entirely.
Disabling UAC (as opposed to just disabling the notifications) is not necessary for the average user and probably majority of users.
So, just for the sake of anyone else here who might want to follow in your footsteps, I should point out that this is a really bad idea. You're undermining the single most important security measure on your computer--the gut check that keeps you from accidentally doing something stupid.
This depends on your perspective. I want all processes to run elevated. Therefore, it is a bad idea to use an OS that has this protection (bad idea relative to my goals). I work around this with configuration that is made available by the OS developer. I have not, in however many years Windows 7 has been out, had a single issue as a result. I run questionable software that might do harm in a VM and I take backups to be able to go back to before an unauthorized malicious change (not that I've had to do so yet).
UAC serves a purpose and I agree that it is an important warning - "hey, something might happen that you don't want, are you sure you want to let it happen?" - but I'm content to carry on as I am.
If this 'app' model doesn't die off (and as much as I can hope, I know it won't) I will probably have to change at some point, but perhaps by then I won't have any meaningful reason other than stubbornness to turn off UAC anyway.
We're not that far removed from this being the norm. Prior to XP, there was no concept of privileges in Windows (on the consumer side, anyway). And even then, XP made everyone an admin by default. Those of us savvy enough, managed to avoid major issues through simple diligence and caution.
That said, when Vista introduced UAC, I welcomed it with open arms because I knew it would save me a ton of time supporting other users. Windows 7 has been even better.
I'm curious, you say that your goal is to run everything elevated. I have to think your actual goal is to not be bothered by elevation requests. Wouldn't silencing them have the same net effect?
Post by: kishy on Wed, 16 September 2015, 10:31:36
ah ok, tbf I feel like that is well beyond what I actually use my PC for these days
Right...ultimately most people can coexist with UAC and non-admin program access without problems. I do run into issues sometimes with some things I do, so I try to bypass that situation entirely.
Disabling UAC (as opposed to just disabling the notifications) is not necessary for the average user and probably majority of users.
So, just for the sake of anyone else here who might want to follow in your footsteps, I should point out that this is a really bad idea. You're undermining the single most important security measure on your computer--the gut check that keeps you from accidentally doing something stupid.
This depends on your perspective. I want all processes to run elevated. Therefore, it is a bad idea to use an OS that has this protection (bad idea relative to my goals). I work around this with configuration that is made available by the OS developer. I have not, in however many years Windows 7 has been out, had a single issue as a result. I run questionable software that might do harm in a VM and I take backups to be able to go back to before an unauthorized malicious change (not that I've had to do so yet).
UAC serves a purpose and I agree that it is an important warning - "hey, something might happen that you don't want, are you sure you want to let it happen?" - but I'm content to carry on as I am.
If this 'app' model doesn't die off (and as much as I can hope, I know it won't) I will probably have to change at some point, but perhaps by then I won't have any meaningful reason other than stubbornness to turn off UAC anyway.
We're not that far removed from this being the norm. Prior to XP, there was no concept of privileges in Windows (on the consumer side, anyway). And even then, XP made everyone an admin by default. Those of us savvy enough, managed to avoid major issues through simple diligence and caution.
That said, when Vista introduced UAC, I welcomed it with open arms because I knew it would save me a ton of time supporting other users. Windows 7 has been even better.
I'm curious, you say that your goal is to run everything elevated. I have to think your actual goal is to not be bothered by elevation requests. Wouldn't silencing them have the same net effect?
There are workarounds for my utilities that do not cooperate as desired with UAC on, so ultimately it is preference...
Note that I have programs that must run as admin, so this is a 2-tiered problem. 1, I do not tolerate the prompts and disable them via the slider. 2, I don't want to have to instruct specific programs to run as admin, I'd rather it just be done globally, so that's just laziness on my part.
Regardless...UAC is an improvement and a good compromise from how it used to be. DOS-based Windows just ran everything, period. Early NT-based you were either admin or you weren't and didn't have much of a good way around it. Since Vista UAC has been a useful middle ground where you can be admin but processes don't always run as admin, and relatively seamlessly can be elevated as needed.
Post by: ideus on Thu, 24 September 2015, 18:27:54
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 26 October 2015, 16:26:05
After logging in I just get a black screen. After three or four minutes it takes me through to my desktop, but then takes forever to load anything, and has crashed to a blue screen with a cursor. When I lock my PC from the blue screen I get the login screen again, but then it goes blue again.
Post by: katushkin on Mon, 26 October 2015, 18:23:54
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 26 October 2015, 21:14:43
I just ****ing reinstalled windows 7. I feel defeatest because I liked 10 and this was the first real issue I had. Shame it completely ruined the OS and my PC.
So it's too late to help with the W10 problem?
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 27 October 2015, 00:53:29
I just ****ing reinstalled windows 7. I feel defeatest because I liked 10 and this was the first real issue I had. Shame it completely ruined the OS and my PC.Don't feel bad, this is why a lot of people went back to Win7, including myself.
Yes, you might fix it, and then it downloads another update and kills your video, again. Updates can be good, but forcing them is asking for these exact problems.
I ditched it for a few reasons actually, spying, mandatory updates, unexpected restarts... The worst though was on my tablet, I only use it outside the home, which means slow or tethered connections, and each time it connected to a new wifi I had to tell it it was metered or it would bog down the connection or chew through my data plan.
Don't get me wrong, I like the underlying OS, data transfers are better over network which I do a lot of, and even the GUI for the most part (I like how it feels more modern), but it was just really frustrating to use by the time you dealt with the problems it has. When you kill the spying and updates, it causes weird issues down the line. For now, I now use Win7 with a theme that is similar to Win10, I may run a Win10 partition once they enable Enterprises ability to turn off the garbage, but I;m trying to get rid of Windows anyhow, so...
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 27 October 2015, 18:06:46
I just ****ing reinstalled windows 7. I feel defeatest because I liked 10 and this was the first real issue I had. Shame it completely ruined the OS and my PC.
So it's too late to help with the W10 problem?
I can't find any solutions online at all. As much as I tried.
It took me five attempts, but finally I am back on windows 7
Post by: JaccoW on Wed, 28 October 2015, 01:21:11
I now have W10 on my laptop, main PC and tablet.
The tablet actually improved in speed.
The laptop had some trackpad issues but that's Sony for you with their custom hardware.
The PC got stuck at 92% but after a clean win7 install it went on to install without a hitch.
The only issue is with my parents' PC, which is crashing at random for some reason, prompting my mom to demend me to reinstall W7... even though she clicked yes even though I said to wait until I had time,to help. :P
Post by: crayzieap on Wed, 28 October 2015, 14:01:28
Post by: sitch on Sun, 01 November 2015, 06:07:43
nothing much difference in term of functionality compared to win7 for me though..
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 01 November 2015, 14:58:43
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:12:40
Post by: crovax3000 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 16:42:04
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 01 November 2015, 17:10:51
I know a lot of people have said it's fine, but I'm still nervous about compatibility of 10 and different programs. I'll probably just update on the last day the free upgrade is available.
The compatibility issues are being sorted very quickly. I didn't have any issues with things that I can think of.
Post by: RenegadeParadox on Tue, 03 November 2015, 01:48:58
I know a lot of people have said it's fine, but I'm still nervous about compatibility of 10 and different programs. I'll probably just update on the last day the free upgrade is available.
This is basically my plan as well. I had serious issues with the privacy and bad driver support at launch and now I just feel like I'd rather wait out till its close to the end. My Windows 8.1 isn't broke so no need to fix it sort of mentality.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 17 December 2015, 15:03:36
Has anyone had anymore recurring issues they can't get sorted? Anything I should look out for? My Dota has stopped working in 64bit mode even though I'm using a 64bit version of Win 7
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 17 December 2015, 15:10:20
I'm bumping this up again. I'm considering upgrading again, just to see how it goes.
Has anyone had anymore recurring issues they can't get sorted? Anything I should look out for? My Dota has stopped working in 64bit mode even though I'm using a 64bit version of Win 7
I've noticed a few things about the OS I don't much like.
A mate of mine upgraded because his old windows install went mental on him. He has all kinds of issues with searching for programs he has installed, but other than that not much else. Though tbh I don't see much point in upgrading from win7 to 10. The slight improvements in 10 aren't really worth the hassle and re-learning muscle memory when using the start menu. On top of the other issues you've been having...
..but you should upgrade your moba to a proper RTS :-* :-*
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 17 December 2015, 15:16:08
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 17 December 2015, 15:17:25
I've noticed a few things about the OS I don't much like.
A mate of mine upgraded because his old windows install went mental on him. He has all kinds of issues with searching for programs he has installed, but other than that not much else. Though tbh I don't see much point in upgrading from win7 to 10. The slight improvements in 10 aren't really worth the hassle and re-learning muscle memory when using the start menu. On top of the other issues you've been having...
..but you should upgrade your moba to a proper RTS :-* :-*
I like 10 when I used it. I used it for a good, three months or so? And seven is just... meh... The look and feel of 10 are so much better, and win 7 still looks really old. I think I will do it tomorrow when I get home, **** it. See how it goes.
I can compete on Dota though, and I have other people to blame it on when I **** up...
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 17 December 2015, 15:19:36
I've noticed a few things about the OS I don't much like.
A mate of mine upgraded because his old windows install went mental on him. He has all kinds of issues with searching for programs he has installed, but other than that not much else. Though tbh I don't see much point in upgrading from win7 to 10. The slight improvements in 10 aren't really worth the hassle and re-learning muscle memory when using the start menu. On top of the other issues you've been having...
..but you should upgrade your moba to a proper RTS :-* :-*
I like 10 when I used it. I used it for a good, three months or so? And seven is just... meh... The look and feel of 10 are so much better, and win 7 still looks really old. I think I will do it tomorrow when I get home, **** it. See how it goes.
I can compete on Dota though, and I have other people to blame it on when I **** up...
thats what team games are foorrrrrr #chillin
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 17 December 2015, 16:02:13
Post by: jerue on Thu, 17 December 2015, 16:58:24
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 17 December 2015, 16:59:23
I've disabled most of the "send your data to microsoft" things. Win10 Enterprise is fun.
I send everything to MS, figure, share the love. NSA, GCHQ etc know all my ****... hell maybe MS can use it to help me out rather than just being a creepy perv
Post by: jerue on Thu, 17 December 2015, 20:04:00
I've disabled most of the "send your data to microsoft" things. Win10 Enterprise is fun.
I send everything to MS, figure, share the love. NSA, GCHQ etc know all my ****... hell maybe MS can use it to help me out rather than just being a creepy perv
Hehe. I bet as a result that Cortana works well. Not exactly for me...oh well.
This dog looks really fascinated by the Windows 10 upgrade.
(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/MbHmRvWau4Oiaz3u8yae8erK1Ltvf0G1Sisz_uCkTgd3imPxSYNanJ2U16yzLoGCNPwiF6FibJa9hLuUGdk4ZATDsC2V0tqRHQ2uHKIfjLYan8C75rZGK7Zi31sWIdJ2whBlELkatwRHljci=s0-d-e1-ft#https://image.email.microsoftemail.com/lib/fe7015707566067e7711/m/1/family-upgrade.png)
Thanks Microsoft Insider. Such upgrade. Very system. So window.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 17 December 2015, 20:08:53
I'm googling it...
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 17 December 2015, 20:24:40
I'm bumping this up again. I'm considering upgrading again, just to see how it goes.
Has anyone had anymore recurring issues they can't get sorted? Anything I should look out for? My Dota has stopped working in 64bit mode even though I'm using a 64bit version of Win 7
I have an office with several Win10 systems, they HATE IT. The upgrades keep flooding the wifi system, then reboots on them. One shut off the mouse while it updated and didn't re-enable it when finished (a restart fixed the mouse). These were brand new I5 laptops and the owner considered paying me to install Win7 on each of them which would have been costly. This may not seem like that big a big deal, but this guy is a miser who's so tight with money he squeaks when he walks. I almost fell out over when he even considered the idea.
Two of my laptops had the wifi flooded to where the computer was useless while updating as well, however my network is more robust and didn't flood out everything on it. Then there was the Nvidia debacle where it caused boot loops, I personally didn't get hit by this, but I know people who did. Then an MS update caused boot loops, the fix then caused other boot loops before they finally fixed it. Some people had to do a complete re-install to get back up and rnning. One of my personal laptops got hit with this. I eventually found a tool that allowed me to disable that update, however as soon as MS re-issued a patched version it re-installed again a week later. Third time was the charm and it finally worked, but trying to find a workaround was not easy.
And then there is just the updates in general, my tablet burned though 50% of my cell data before I knew what happened. This can be disabled, but only when you remember and know where to find it. Considering I only tend to use it while traveling, that's an issue.
I'm back on 7, however, I agree with Baldgye, 7 looks old, but that's an easy fix. I changed the taskbars black and use a Start icon changer. On the surface, it looks like 10, runs like Win7, which can be good and bad. The underlying OS of Win10 is good, as is the interface, it's just some of the more annoying things MS tacked onto it that make it bad. I don't like forced updates I have zero control over. I know the hell they can cause, especially at the hands of MS.
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 17 December 2015, 20:27:14
This dog looks really fascinated by the Windows 10 upgrade.Show Image(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/MbHmRvWau4Oiaz3u8yae8erK1Ltvf0G1Sisz_uCkTgd3imPxSYNanJ2U16yzLoGCNPwiF6FibJa9hLuUGdk4ZATDsC2V0tqRHQ2uHKIfjLYan8C75rZGK7Zi31sWIdJ2whBlELkatwRHljci=s0-d-e1-ft#https://image.email.microsoftemail.com/lib/fe7015707566067e7711/m/1/family-upgrade.png)
Thanks Microsoft Insider. Such upgrade. Very system. So window.
Those people are WAY too happy watching and hours long upgrade process, then again, maybe they upgrade from Windows 8.0, I would probably be that happy too.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 17 December 2015, 20:27:58
Post by: dgneo on Thu, 17 December 2015, 20:32:36
I do a bunch of gaming on it as well, and haven't had any compatibility issues either. Start menu isn't too bad, search is pretty fast too. I turned off all the tiles for a cleaner look. I did purchase Start10, but only use it for transparent taskbars.
It's definitely a big change from 7, but with some time it's pretty easy to get used to.
FWIW, we're also using it on a few computers at work in a domain environment, and it's been solid there too.
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 17 December 2015, 21:02:34
I've had 10 since it was in the beta, and it's been pretty solid for me. I host subsonic, plex, sickbeard/couch potato/sab, and a bunch of VMs, and haven't had any issues yet. Powershell integration is really solid, and I'm looking forward to the official ssh support.Don't get me wrong, I actually like the OS in general, it runs fine, it's the forced updates that cause the most trouble. I've worked long enough in this industry to know better than to trust every update thrown out.
Post by: Altis on Thu, 17 December 2015, 21:05:50
...... I don't like forced updates I have zero control over. I know the hell they can cause, especially at the hands of MS.
I share your sentiment. I don't mind it quite as much on my desktop now that I have unlimited bandwidth, but it would sometimes eat the battery on my laptop as I don't use it as often.
The other day it burned through about 30-40% of my battery doing nothing but some kind of intense behind-the-scenes updates/work. The fan was running full speed the whole time, too.
I need to be able to control when things happen, and I very much dislike the arm-twist methods that they are employing. They remind me of what I dislike most about Apple products (updates).
I'm still quite mixed about the overall Windows 10 experience. I love the new snapping features, multiple desktop instances, and being able to scale my screens differently, and it overall looks pretty good. I just find a lot of the animations/features kind of slow or buggy. Even photo viewer doesn't always work right for me and will randomly stop working.
It looks good though and I prefer it to Windows 8 (who doesn't?). Windows 7 still feels a bit better for a desktop, to me.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 17 December 2015, 21:09:19
I know I did that power thing before, but it made no sense to me before.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 17 December 2015, 21:11:10
Does the face entry thing work? Can you look at your webcam and get in on Win 10 yet?
I'm googling it...
I'm testing a Surface Book for my team at work. The face login thing (Windows Hello I think) is pretty cool. Works almost every time, except one time when I had a migraine. Which is interesting. I've heard the infrared camera looks at the heat map of your face, so maybe the migraine/change in blood pressure in my head did something? Cool and weird and :eek: all at the same time.
And the Surface Book has not had a single crash, lockup, slowdown, anything. Rock solid, and the hardware has a very premium feel to it.
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 17 December 2015, 21:25:12
The other day it burned through about 30-40% of my battery doing nothing but some kind of intense behind-the-scenes updates/work. The fan was running full speed the whole time, too.That's another thing...
My laptop came out of sleep, updated and restarted, without any input, luckily, it was not in my work bag where it would have suffocated. I had a Sony come out of sleep once while in a bag, and luckily, the battery died before it got hot enough to do any permanent damage to the laptop itself, it did do about 10% damage to the battery when it ran down to nothing.
Other than the black screen that forced me to swap back to 7, I did have random boot ups which were really weird... Has anyone else had these random boot ups or am I the only one?Yes, the black screen was what I got after the bad update was "patched". First it did a boot loop, I reinstalled and blocked the update (only fix that worked). Then it updated and reinstalled the patched, which black screened, luckily I got into safe mode and removed that one as well. The third patch finally corrected everything.
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 17 December 2015, 22:31:20
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 03:37:44
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 03:39:51
Other than the black screen that forced me to swap back to 7, I did have random boot ups which were really weird... Has anyone else had these random boot ups or am I the only one?By random boot ups do you mean your computer freezes then reboots itself? If so, then yes. But I had a tech friend look into it and he changed something and it hasn't happened since. Not much help, I know.
I know I did that power thing before, but it made no sense to me before.
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 18 December 2015, 03:41:36
I've disabled most of the "send your data to microsoft" things. Win10 Enterprise is fun.
I send everything to MS, figure, share the love. NSA, GCHQ etc know all my ****... hell maybe MS can use it to help me out rather than just being a creepy perv
Hehe. I bet as a result that Cortana works well. Not exactly for me...oh well.
This dog looks really fascinated by the Windows 10 upgrade.Show Image(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/MbHmRvWau4Oiaz3u8yae8erK1Ltvf0G1Sisz_uCkTgd3imPxSYNanJ2U16yzLoGCNPwiF6FibJa9hLuUGdk4ZATDsC2V0tqRHQ2uHKIfjLYan8C75rZGK7Zi31sWIdJ2whBlELkatwRHljci=s0-d-e1-ft#https://image.email.microsoftemail.com/lib/fe7015707566067e7711/m/1/family-upgrade.png)
Thanks Microsoft Insider. Such upgrade. Very system. So window.
Never use it, seems pointless tbh lol
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 18 December 2015, 06:21:43
Not sure if it's a Windows 10 thing but my Assassins Creed Syndicate will not open past the title screen without crashing the game and giving me an ACS.exe stopped working message. Can't play the damn game and it drives me nuts. I've tried several fixes online to no avail. Sad times.
You can try running it in compatibility mode
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:08:20
Other than the black screen that forced me to swap back to 7, I did have random boot ups which were really weird... Has anyone else had these random boot ups or am I the only one?By random boot ups do you mean your computer freezes then reboots itself? If so, then yes. But I had a tech friend look into it and he changed something and it hasn't happened since. Not much help, I know.
I know I did that power thing before, but it made no sense to me before.
Nah, as in it just starts up at random intervals from being completely shut down.
Also the update detected that my copy of windows wasn't genuine. **** my life.
Post by: SL89 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:18:21
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:24:02
Also the update detected that my copy of windows wasn't genuine. **** my life.
LMAO
maaaaaate
Post by: dgneo on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:31:02
So now im in a pickle, I have one W10 pc left (everything else is Mac or Linux) and now for some reason i cant apply an update because a different update failed to apply... I've contacted Microsoft about it and they just say to apply the first one, but when I do it's already applied...
Does that update show up in Add/Remove Programs > View Installed Updates? If so, you can try uninstalling it there, then reinstalling it.
Post by: SL89 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:31:51
So now im in a pickle, I have one W10 pc left (everything else is Mac or Linux) and now for some reason i cant apply an update because a different update failed to apply... I've contacted Microsoft about it and they just say to apply the first one, but when I do it's already applied...
Does that update show up in Add/Remove Programs > View Installed Updates? If so, you can try uninstalling it there, then reinstalling it.
Noooope
Post by: dgneo on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:32:17
So now im in a pickle, I have one W10 pc left (everything else is Mac or Linux) and now for some reason i cant apply an update because a different update failed to apply... I've contacted Microsoft about it and they just say to apply the first one, but when I do it's already applied...
Does that update show up in Add/Remove Programs > View Installed Updates? If so, you can try uninstalling it there, then reinstalling it.
Noooope
What's the kb#?
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:32:26
So now im in a pickle, I have one W10 pc left (everything else is Mac or Linux) and now for some reason i cant apply an update because a different update failed to apply... I've contacted Microsoft about it and they just say to apply the first one, but when I do it's already applied...
Does that update show up in Add/Remove Programs > View Installed Updates? If so, you can try uninstalling it there, then reinstalling it.
Noooope
Recovery point?
Post by: SL89 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 11:05:41
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 13:10:06
Really? Mine isn't genuine and it works fine for me. The worst part is I actually bought windows 8.1 and then installed it on my old iMac and upgraded to 10 there. But apparently the license is tied to the hardware forcing me to pirate windows 10 when o actually own a copy.Other than the black screen that forced me to swap back to 7, I did have random boot ups which were really weird... Has anyone else had these random boot ups or am I the only one?By random boot ups do you mean your computer freezes then reboots itself? If so, then yes. But I had a tech friend look into it and he changed something and it hasn't happened since. Not much help, I know.
I know I did that power thing before, but it made no sense to me before.
Nah, as in it just starts up at random intervals from being completely shut down.
Also the update detected that my copy of windows wasn't genuine. **** my life.
Post by: baldgye on Sat, 19 December 2015, 11:49:57
this makes me quite cross
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 19 December 2015, 16:54:12
Really? Mine isn't genuine and it works fine for me. The worst part is I actually bought windows 8.1 and then installed it on my old iMac and upgraded to 10 there. But apparently the license is tied to the hardware forcing me to pirate windows 10 when o actually own a copy.
Yeah, it didn't do it before though.
I've had to do a fresh windows 7 install because 10 wouldn't work, and now Windows 10 isn't working well either. I'm having to do every update because th ewindows 10 update pauses at "checking for updates" at 22%....
Post by: baldgye on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:53:48
Post by: zombimuncha on Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:28:07
Interestingly, when investigating the slowness I found that HP provides some BIOS updates for this machine if it has W8 or 8.1, but you can't download even them if you (tell them you) have W10. Do you think I should just tell HP I have win8.1, as if downloading the BIOS update for use on another machine, then install it anyway?
In terms of how it looks - I prefer 7. I just really like the "glass" look of Vista and 7. I guess 10 is a little better looking than either of the 8's tho.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 18 April 2016, 18:23:36
After considerable ****-footing and procrastination, I am ready to move my big primary 60-pound full-tower assembly up to Windows 10.
I have done a clean fresh format-and-install of 10 on a 5-year-old Toshiba laptop that came with 7 built-in, so I have endured the general process.
My concerns are procedural and specific: I have a plethora of "drives" (SSD, multiple conventional Winchesters, optical drives, card readers, etc) but the crucial central issue is that I want to have the boot disc C:\ be a small-ish SSD (fresh clean formatted) for program files *only* and large conventional drive D:\ (fresh clean formatted) for all the "user" and "data" files.
When I do the initial install, as a matter of course, I un-plug everything but the basics until the OS is stable (also unplugging the freestanding Linux Mint drive that I access via BIOS by changing the "1st boot device").
I find this: http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1964-users-folder-move-location-windows-10-a.html (http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1964-users-folder-move-location-windows-10-a.html) which seems overly complex and kludgy, but having moved "user" locations to D:\ after the fact in past installs has left me with another set of users on C:\ that certain programs still use from time to time. If this procedure makes the re-direction to D:\ ironclad and permanent then I am happy to do it, but it seems unnecessary.
Could I just work directly from the screen (shown below) and reset the path to D: without all that extraneous stuff?
This is a clean install with nothing to lose anywhere in the process.
Or if there is a cleaner and more simple process, I would be glad to hear it. Once 10 is installed and the users are set in stone on D:\ I can handle the rest of the grunt work.
Thanks! Harry
Post by: ideus on Mon, 18 April 2016, 18:34:31
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:17:21
I have never even tried to upgrade to Win 10
I hear you. I am a crusty old curmudgeon looking at my 64th birthday in a couple of months, and I am firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" belief.
But with my Windows 7 Professional install getting quite long in the tooth and slower and kludgier by the day, I need to do something.
Re-installing 7 just doesn't seem to make much sense, and denying the future is never a winning strategy.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:37:42
I have never even tried to upgrade to Win 10
I hear you. I am a crusty old curmudgeon looking at my 64th birthday in a couple of months, and I am firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" belief.
But with my Windows 7 Professional install getting quite long in the tooth and slower and kludgier by the day, I need to do something.
Re-installing 7 just doesn't seem to make much sense, and denying the future is never a winning strategy.
Congratulations in advance for your birthday and also for your young soul that wants to stay updated. Meanwhile I can keep my old OS, maybe until my next new upcoming PC.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:43:50
and also for your young soul that wants to stay updated
Please tell this to everyone who is not committed to supporting Bernie Sanders 100%.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 18 April 2016, 19:46:08
I have never even tried to upgrade to Win 10
I hear you. I am a crusty old curmudgeon looking at my 64th birthday in a couple of months, and I am firmly of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" belief.
But with my Windows 7 Professional install getting quite long in the tooth and slower and kludgier by the day, I need to do something.
Re-installing 7 just doesn't seem to make much sense, and denying the future is never a winning strategy.
I like windows 10 so far but I used a program to get back the 'xp' like start menu and another program to address some of the privacy concerns.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160418/2334d9534714d1c0e772131c0127417f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160418/84209ab3730300ac0281e2af76c04b97.jpg)
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 18 April 2016, 20:32:03
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:25:30
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:59:48
But here are a few posts in this thread that I have noted that may be helpful:
287 Ooobly
346 godly_music
360 Kishy
And the always-insightful Leslieann posted this in another thread:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77550.msg2022838#msg2022838 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77550.msg2022838#msg2022838)
Post by: Altis on Tue, 19 April 2016, 16:25:17
It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 19 April 2016, 17:06:33
For me, it's the auto-updates. I accidentally burned up a ton of cellular data by tethering my phone to my Windows 10 laptop and not paying attention.
It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).
Man that sucks. Not to sound like a fanboy, but my iPhone just doesn't download updates when I'm on cell (luckily).
Post by: Altis on Tue, 19 April 2016, 21:05:10
For me, it's the auto-updates. I accidentally burned up a ton of cellular data by tethering my phone to my Windows 10 laptop and not paying attention.
It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).
Man that sucks. Not to sound like a fanboy, but my iPhone just doesn't download updates when I'm on cell (luckily).
I've always been quite critical of the way that Apple pretty much forces its updates on everyone, sometimes causing irreversible problems as you can't downgrade.
Now Microsoft has taken it up a notch further. It's a race to the bottom.
Linux looks more and more delicious by the day.
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 19 April 2016, 21:54:21
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
Post by: iLLucionist on Wed, 20 April 2016, 04:06:21
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 20 April 2016, 05:27:40
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
Exactly.
Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back. They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 20 April 2016, 06:37:29
After considerable ****-footing and procrastination, I am ready to move my big primary 60-pound full-tower assembly up to Windows 10.My last big box was 120, and then I found small and light was soooo much more easy to move around the house. It's nice not needing casters or a second person. Seriously, it was 120 pounds. It was a Supermicro double wide server case designed to survive a nuke attack. Then I lined the inside with 3/16in plex, and huge water cooling system... I decided to go the other way on my next system after having to lift it into a pickup when I moved.
My concerns are procedural and specific: I have a plethora of "drives" (SSD, multiple conventional Winchesters, optical drives, card readers, etc) but the crucial central issue is that I want to have the boot disc C:\ be a small-ish SSD (fresh clean formatted) for program files *only* and large conventional drive D:\ (fresh clean formatted) for all the "user" and "data" files.
When I do the initial install, as a matter of course, I un-plug everything but the basics until the OS is stable (also unplugging the freestanding Linux Mint drive that I access via BIOS by changing the "1st boot device").
I find this: http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1964-users-folder-move-location-windows-10-a.html (http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1964-users-folder-move-location-windows-10-a.html) which seems overly complex and kludgy, but having moved "user" locations to D:\ after the fact in past installs has left me with another set of users on C:\ that certain programs still use from time to time. If this procedure makes the re-direction to D:\ ironclad and permanent then I am happy to do it, but it seems unnecessary.
Could I just work directly from the screen (shown below) and reset the path to D: without all that extraneous stuff?
This is a clean install with nothing to lose anywhere in the process.
Or if there is a cleaner and more simple process, I would be glad to hear it. Once 10 is installed and the users are set in stone on D:\ I can handle the rest of the grunt work.
I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.
There are certain things in many programs that are hard coded to the stock location, and not just aftermarket software, even MS messes this up on occasion. You will get games that refuse to run, random errors... For the most part it will work, and you may get an error every now and then and chalk it up to random errors. It's not. I've been down this road, it doesn't work well because programming standards are not all that good.
If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.
But... and it's a big one.
Every drive you add and put system files on is another drive that can bring down your system. When you do this, drives become a chain, and only as strong as the weakest link. If that drive fails, it can take down the rest of the system depending on what's on it.
And remember, each drive you add, increases the chance of just such a failure happening. This is why people discourage raid zero (striping) use, it significantly increases your odds of system failure.
PS - the other question is how to set D:\ to the 2nd hard drive rather than the DVD optical drive early enough in the process before the users are setAfter you get it installed and before you do anything else, get into admin tools, computer management, disk management. Right click on the dvd, change the drive letter to any other letter, then change the second drive to D, then change the DVD back to E. Done.
Post by: Diokhan on Wed, 20 April 2016, 06:59:06
Tried everything I could find.. Seem I'm going to install windows 7 again -.-
No problems on my PC at home tho.
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 20 April 2016, 07:10:35
For me, it's the auto-updates. I accidentally burned up a ton of cellular data by tethering my phone to my Windows 10 laptop and not paying attention.There is a tool that lets you control updates now, at least until MS decides to block it with an update.
It also burnt up the battery to the point where I couldn't use the machine (it's old and doesn't get much battery life).
http://betanews.com/2016/02/22/control-windows-10-updates/
There are tools that block it the spying, but to verify it you need a proxy server.Exactly.So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back. They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
While it can function without MS, the more you do to stop it, the more crippled it becomes.
By the time I got mine to stop calling home, I was getting an error message every time I installed something (it was able to be bypassed) and an error any time I installed new hardware and it wanted a driver, which was not easily bypassed.
They tied many things into the commonly used systems, so it's not practical to block everything, at least at this time. People are working on stripping MS's control, but MS is constantly pushing back. As soon as a technique starts to become popular, they will disable it. Just like they did regarding feedback.
They began to really nag beta testers regarding feedback, why did they stop providing feedback? Because MS didn't want to hear what we had to say, who knew we were supposed to like ads in our face and our systems being reset every major update? So now, MS is removing the ability to ignore. Which means MS will get again be inundated with feedback they won't bother to listen to.
And don't think Win7 and 8 is immune, they have traced the Win10 spying modules being inserted into Win7 as far back as July of last year. Over the next few months they slowly inserted the same telemetry as Win10 has into Win7, 8, and 8.1. There are tools to remove and block this and it works well, but that's because they were patched in, unlike Win10 where it was natively built in.
Mac is not entirely immune either, it's not like Apple discloses anything. It's probably safe to say Mac is clear of this sort of meddling, for the moment, but it could be implemented easily enough as they already did it to IOS years ago. They are slowly walling off that garden more and more, at which point, they have you locked in. And Linux... there has been at least one secret attempt to insert a backdoor into the kernel and Linus claims he has been asked by agencies to do it. And that's not counting the Canonical/Amazon deal a few ears ago which drove MANY users from Ubuntu.
However, this is all moot to a point anyhow.
You can keep all your data away from MS, Google or Apple (good luck!) but as soon as you send it onto the internet, you're wide open again anyhow. Does it really matter if MS knows you went onto the internet to visit Facebook and Twitter after passing through half a dozen servers and a public wifi run by a mega corp like AT&T, all of whom are selling your browsing history and personal info as well? At least MS tells you what they are doing, they may be laughing when they do it, but at least they told you... Kind of.
Pick your battles.
If you want Win10, accept that you will need to make a choice of a smooth running system, or telemetry and that your ability to choose may be revoked at a moments notice.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 21 April 2016, 20:58:53
Windows acted like it was rejecting my product key, but after it ran through a couple of updates it is reporting that Windows is activated without me doing anything else.
The convoluted process that I had found and reported in an earlier post for relocating the user profiles to D: was a pain but it worked well and I feel that it will end up being more comprehensive and reliable than doing it after the fact like I have done in the past. The instructions and screen shots were not exactly what I saw, but the process worked. And, from within the audit mode, you can reassign drive letters before you finalize where the user profiles go.
My remaining frustrations are pretty minor. Finding drivers for my ancient scanner (which still works perfectly) has been very tricky since XP, and I think that I may have to let go. I am dual-booting into Mint 17.3 which finds and operates the scanner instantly, of course.
I switched to AVG anti-virus and it is being extremely obstreperous about refusing to let me install various free software, even when I specifically click "allow" and it says that it will do it. That is probably why I stopped using it a few years ago in favor of Avast, and I may have to go back.
I have the desktop looking reasonable, but I am totally frustrated by there being no actual "start menu" type situation where I can actually see a list of my programs and choose one. That thing about "just go into the slot and start typing the name of something" is unbelievably cumbersome and wasteful of time and effort.
Now to see how I feel in a couple of weeks.
Post by: Lain1911 on Thu, 21 April 2016, 21:19:45
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 21 April 2016, 21:28:31
I switched to AVG anti-virus and it is being extremely obstreperous about refusing to let me install various free software, even when I specifically click "allow" and it says that it will do it. That is probably why I stopped using it a few years ago in favor of Avast, and I may have to go back.That was why I ditched AVG (for Avast).
A program should not refused to do what I specifically tell it to do.
When you tell it to ignore, allow, and even not scan, and it still stops you from doing what needs to be done, I'm done. It also became quite bloated and a resource hog.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 23 April 2016, 14:28:18
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
Exactly.
Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back. They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
This sh*t is really getting out of hand. I just want an OS to game on and being left alone. Probably stick to my PS4 then and cry about not being able to play FPS'es properly with a mouse and kb.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 23 April 2016, 14:40:14
There are tools that block it the spying, but to verify it you need a proxy server.
While it can function without MS, the more you do to stop it, the more crippled it becomes.
By the time I got mine to stop calling home, I was getting an error message every time I installed something (it was able to be bypassed) and an error any time I installed new hardware and it wanted a driver, which was not easily bypassed.
So basically... for a driver installation it even rings home? So they made it so ingrained (like IE in win95/98) that you can't really use windows without allowing it to ring home. Interesting that nobody sued MS already like they did with the IE/netscape lawsuit in the 90's (not that that helped in any way).
They tied many things into the commonly used systems, so it's not practical to block everything, at least
at this time. People are working on stripping MS's control, but MS is constantly pushing back. As soon as a technique starts to become popular, they will disable it. Just like they did regarding feedback.
This is really getting out of hand man.
They began to really nag beta testers regarding feedback, why did they stop providing feedback? Because MS didn't want to hear what we had to say, who knew we were supposed to like ads in our face and our systems being reset every major update? So now, MS is removing the ability to ignore. Which means MS will get again be inundated with feedback they won't bother to listen to.
Yeah, what is the purpose of feedback then anyways. It seems like MS is only playing politics as opposed to actually making windows do OS stuff.
And don't think Win7 and 8 is immune, they have traced the Win10 spying modules being inserted into Win7 as far back as July of last year. Over the next few months they slowly inserted the same telemetry as Win10 has into Win7, 8, and 8.1. There are tools to remove and block this and it works well, but that's because they were patched in, unlike Win10 where it was natively built in.
I really didn't knew that. That is scary stuff. So they basically backported telemetry.
Mac is not entirely immune either, it's not like Apple discloses anything. It's probably safe to say Mac is clear of this sort of meddling, for the moment, but it could be implemented easily enough as they already did it to IOS years ago. They are slowly walling off that garden more and more, at which point, they have you locked in. And Linux... there has been at least one secret attempt to insert a backdoor into the kernel and Linus claims he has been asked by agencies to do it. And that's not counting the Canonical/Amazon deal a few ears ago which drove MANY users from Ubuntu.
Yeah, I didn't really expect linux to go this route. I hope at least linux will remain a somewhat viable option.
However, this is all moot to a point anyhow.
You can keep all your data away from MS, Google or Apple (good luck!) but as soon as you send it onto the internet, you're wide open again anyhow. Does it really matter if MS knows you went onto the internet to visit Facebook and Twitter after passing through half a dozen servers and a public wifi run by a mega corp like AT&T, all of whom are selling your browsing history and personal info as well? At least MS tells you what they are doing, they may be laughing when they do it, but at least they told you... Kind of.
I get what you are saying. But this doesn't justify anything MS is doing. At least I have to ACTIVELY go on facebook and other sites (google) to get companies to spy on me. With MS, the only thing I have to do is boot up windows. Now I come to think of it, the fact that MS builds this spying into the OS, data harvesting companies like google and amazon and the lot apparently didn't find it enough to follow people's browser behavior and they now want OS behavior as well. So there must be a market for OS spying. Assuming, of course, that it isn't for the sole purpose of the us government and that the US is basically paying / summoning MS to build in backdoors and spying.
It sounds like there is no way back, no real solution. I have thought about building a linux firewall, which serves as a proxy. Literally log every connection coming in and coming out, try to find human readable names for the ips. Do deep packet inspection and find out wtf is going on these days. But that would be really a lot of work.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 23 April 2016, 14:42:24
I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.
If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.
I may be entirely wrong about this, as I've used windows for the last time back in 2006 or so. But wasn't there an option for symlinks since win xp or so? So couldn't you just basically symlink C:\Program Files to an external disk location and that's it?
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 23 April 2016, 15:13:26
I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.
If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.
I may be entirely wrong about this, as I've used windows for the last time back in 2006 or so. But wasn't there an option for symlinks since win xp or so? So couldn't you just basically symlink C:\Program Files to an external disk location and that's it?
I think the file hierarchy has changed a bit since then. A lot of programs depend on temporary files that are dropped into the user directory. It could totally be done but that could create confusion with some programs that would be launched from that new drive.
To do it one would have to recreate those subdirectories (hidden, temporary, etc.) that are needed by all the programs in the program files folder and copy whatever files are needed. I hope I'm not making this sound easy. I'm just relaying what I've already done. I'm sure other programs depend on a net of folders that are outside of the program files folder :/
Unless creating a symlink (Windows 10 uses mklink I guess) just links up all of those dependencies. Seems so much easier to use a larger sized drive.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 23 April 2016, 16:51:23
And I ignored the "imaging/reboot" step and it did not matter.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 23 April 2016, 16:53:31
I'll be honest with you...
Don't do it, save yourself a lot of trouble and just get a larger ssd. It stinks, I know, but trust me on this.
If you absolutely have to do it though, take another route. You can mount a second drive in a folder. So you can make the second drive part of program files or a sub directory of it.
I may be entirely wrong about this, as I've used windows for the last time back in 2006 or so. But wasn't there an option for symlinks since win xp or so? So couldn't you just basically symlink C:\Program Files to an external disk location and that's it?
I think the file hierarchy has changed a bit since then. A lot of programs depend on temporary files that are dropped into the user directory. It could totally be done but that could create confusion with some programs that would be launched from that new drive.
To do it one would have to recreate those subdirectories (hidden, temporary, etc.) that are needed by all the programs in the program files folder and copy whatever files are needed. I hope I'm not making this sound easy. I'm just relaying what I've already done. I'm sure other programs depend on a net of folders that are outside of the program files folder :/
Unless creating a symlink (Windows 10 uses mklink I guess) just links up all of those dependencies. Seems so much easier to use a larger sized drive.
Hmm yeah sounds like in Windows a larger drive is the wants go. In Linux, the os doesn't differentiate between real folders, files, or symlinks mostly, so it would work. But Windows is different of course.
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 23 April 2016, 20:34:07
So basically... for a driver installation it even rings home? So they made it so ingrained (like IE in win95/98) that you can't really use windows without allowing it to ring home. Interesting that nobody sued MS already like they did with the IE/netscape lawsuit in the 90's (not that that helped in any way).It rings home for every program install as well, the "smartscreen" they created for IE to make sure websites were safe has been redone to include drivers and programs.
By the way, MS didn't fear the I.E. lawsuit and they won't fear this if it does. By bundling IE with Windows in the EU, MS was making $10mil per day while the fine was $1mil per day. Which is why it took them 6 months to release a patch/version without, by which time they had put out enough F.U.D. to convince people they didn't want Windows without I.E. As a result, they sold almost no copies (which is what they told the court would happen), but stopped the fines and allowed them to keep selling the one that included I.E. and making the full $10mil per day.
The same will happen with this if forced. Ms will spend a few million spewing F.U.D. telling people how their system protects you from malicious programs, and would you rather destroy your computer or would you prefer this. Considering the current climate regarding terrorism, you can probably guess what would happen.
I really didn't knew that. That is scary stuff. So they basically backported telemetry.Nothing basic about it, it's exactly what they did.
Yeah, I didn't really expect linux to go this route. I hope at least linux will remain a somewhat viable option.Canonical learned a hard lesson from it and they have yet to recover from it competely, go look at Distrowatch and see where Ubuntu ranks.
They went from first, to third.
They get half the traffic as Debian, which gets 2/3rds the traffic of Mint.
What gets me is many pushed for Linux to be more Windows like, and many said absolutely not. Then Microsoft makes a huge blunder removing the start menu, leaving Linux more Windows-like than Windows, and what does Ubuntu and Gnome do? Instead of capitalizing on that they both enter the race for a tablet ui. There's a reason Cinnamon (built on top of Gnome 3) is climbing the charts at an amazing rate.
As for being viable, there has never been a time in history that Linux was more viable than right now. I see Open office on more and more computers these days, where it used to only ever be Office. Cinnamon and KDE have pretty much closed the gap in terms of the desktop environments, and Steam is making great strides on Linux gaming. Driver support direct from companies is getting better as well, in fact the only company really going backwards on Linux support, seems to be Intel.
I get what you are saying. But this doesn't justify anything MS is doing.MS is in a fight for survival.
What they are doing with Win10 is similar to what they are doing with Office, and what other mobile companies have been doing all along, selling the data. MS has to bide their time until they can find a way to breach the mobile market, which so far has eluded them.
They gave away 5% of the desktop market selling their soul for a 3% share in the dying tablet market, and a dwindling 1% share in the phone market.
Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone. Don't call them dead yet though, MS has a massive fund for acquiring companies and an almost equally large one stashed just for emergencies. They are not in the situation Blackberry was. MS can stick around a long time on what money they have and resort to familiar tactics, quietly buying up tech companies already with a foot in the door. Buying Nokia proved fruitless, but what if they bough LG or Samsung's phone division... Sounds insane? There was rumors about LG recently.
At least I have to ACTIVELY go on facebook and other sites (google) to get companies to spy on me. With MS, the only thing I have to do is boot up windows. Now I come to think of it, the fact that MS builds this spying into the OS, data harvesting companies like google and amazon and the lot apparently didn't find it enough to follow people's browser behavior and they now want OS behavior as well. So there must be a market for OS spying. Assuming, of course, that it isn't for the sole purpose of the us government and that the US is basically paying / summoning MS to build in backdoors and spying.It's not that there's a market for spying at the desktop level, most of that is for MS to use for looking at trends on how you are using it, but that data can be misinterpreted, which was what led to the start menu being killed. MS can't directly monetize that data, but they can use it to focus their efforts, or push ads on you. Which is what they are doing with it.
What they can do at the OS? You said it yourself, when you go to Facebook, they get what you send them, same as Google and Twitter, but if you control the device it's coming from, you get ALL of the data going to each of them.
It sounds like there is no way back, no real solution. I have thought about building a linux firewall, which serves as a proxy. Literally log every connection coming in and coming out, try to find human readable names for the ips. Do deep packet inspection and find out wtf is going on these days. But that would be really a lot of work.Even running everything through a proxy or firewall will not fix it, yes, you stop MS, but you still crippled the OS if you don't let the data through.
There is a way back, to an extent.
There are bills coming down to limit spying on you at the ISP/router level, but that will not stop device and OS manufacturers from spying.
From there it gets more difficult.
There is unconfirmed reports that Lenovos now have spyware built into them at the hardware level, so you may want to avoid them, but there are other alternatives. We are now starting to see entire laptops and other systems made entirely of open source parts, often QUITE expensive I think that's being paranoid and/or unrealistic since you never truly know 100%.
You can however buy from reputable sources (preferably made in a country not know for such shenanigans) and use Linux. Some older Sony laptops were made in Japan with Japanese chips. For phones, look into custom roms built using Cyanogenmod (NOT Cyanogen, similar tech, different purposes), AOKP, or others, these will have as much spying removed as possible. But to remain that way, you really need to leave out the Google Apps and API system. Most mapping systems rely on the Google API, as do a lot of browsers and other functions, but you can have a fully working smart phone without it.
However, the second biggest leak of your data is still going to be social media.
Something else to think about all of this, too, at some point you become a target simply for not showing up anywhere. There are sites you can go to tell you how unique your browser data is, in many case, the more you try to hide, more unique you become, eve if they do not know who you are, they can track you just as easily. It's like wearing a trench coat to hide your identity, it works fine in winter, but in summer, you stick out like a sore thumb.
Here is one of those sites:
https://panopticlick.eff.org/
Post by: smknjoe on Sat, 23 April 2016, 20:42:40
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
Exactly.
Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back. They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
Same goes for Apple and even Ubuntu. The potential is there for any OS and it's been that way for at least the last ~20 years.
Post by: smknjoe on Sat, 23 April 2016, 20:45:40
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 23 April 2016, 22:19:21
Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone.
Are you saying "die" die - or just fall into a niche market like mechanical keyboards?
Because I see power users and gamers and other aficionados continuing to want/need their multi-hundred-dollar keyboards and graphics cards and monitors, while the peons will carry around little things in their pockets that old men like me can't even see without our reading glasses and can hardly even use with just our stubby fingers.
Post by: Techno Trousers on Sat, 23 April 2016, 22:24:51
Post by: smknjoe on Sat, 23 April 2016, 22:46:59
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 24 April 2016, 00:38:33
"They" have already been saying that for almost 10 years about PCs and keyboards. Computers with keyboards aren't going anywhere any time soon. People who are only consumers of tech will stick with their phones and tablets. While those who produce and maintain tech will continue using the most effective input method(s) we have right now.Everyone was saying it would be replaced by notebooks, then tablets now phones, that it will be gone. I'm saying it will become a dumb terminal for your phone as they converge, which is already happening. The tower itself will disappear, replaced by the cell phone, it's already possible, it just has yet to catch on. Motorola already did it, MS and Ubuntu has already shown off this technology, and Clambook and Nexdock are working on it.
When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone. This means it will be CHEAP since it has no storage, or memory, and if it breaks, you lost nothing. You can already experience this with your cell phone, just get an HDMI to whatever your phone has (mhl, hdmi, etc), and then a bluetooth mouse and keyboard.
This doesn't mean your workstation or gaming computer will disappear, but the pc tower will go back to being a specialty item like it once was. You will only buy one if you need that extra power, not for browsing the internet.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 24 April 2016, 00:58:52
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
Exactly.
Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back. They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
Same goes for Apple and even Ubuntu. The potential is there for any OS and it's been that way for at least the last ~20 years.
Ubuntu does for their search facility. And provides sponsored adverts as part of the search results. Or have they stopped that now?
Apple is ever so slightly different, as if you are running an Apple operating system then you should be using Apple hardware. And chances are you have bought more software from Apple to use on Apple hardware under your Apple operating system. And probably have an Apple phone and/or tablet too. Maybe even an Apple tv. They are all designed to work together and complement each other, and Apple doesn't really need to sell your information to anyone else because they are already the biggest computer company, and if you are already using all Apple hardware/software why would they care about you buying third party software.
But yes, Apple does (probably) store iMessage data and Siri searches. And obviously anything in iCloud.
Does that bother me (using mostly Apple stuff)? Not really - I don't use Siri or iCloud, most non-Google searches I do via a terminal (find . -name something.ext), and iMessage - well, whatever message transport system you use the data has to pass through a third party. I would rather Apple than most of the others.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 24 April 2016, 09:24:58
When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone.
It bothers the hell out of me that "the precious" is a fragile $600 wafer in my pocket on a cold rainy night, where it may or may not be able to connect to the "outside world" at all ....
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 24 April 2016, 14:37:01
Simple solution... Don't pay $600 for your fragile wafer.
When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone.
It bothers the hell out of me that "the precious" is a fragile $600 wafer in my pocket on a cold rainy night, where it may or may not be able to connect to the "outside world" at all ....
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:29:13
So basically... for a driver installation it even rings home? So they made it so ingrained (like IE in win95/98) that you can't really use windows without allowing it to ring home. Interesting that nobody sued MS already like they did with the IE/netscape lawsuit in the 90's (not that that helped in any way).It rings home for every program install as well, the "smartscreen" they created for IE to make sure websites were safe has been redone to include drivers and programs.
By the way, MS didn't fear the I.E. lawsuit and they won't fear this if it does. By bundling IE with Windows in the EU, MS was making $10mil per day while the fine was $1mil per day. Which is why it took them 6 months to release a patch/version without, by which time they had put out enough F.U.D. to convince people they didn't want Windows without I.E. As a result, they sold almost no copies (which is what they told the court would happen), but stopped the fines and allowed them to keep selling the one that included I.E. and making the full $10mil per day.
Interesting. There is a research paper on this, titled "A Fine is a Price" (Gneezy, Rustichini, 2000) in Journal of Legal Studies, arguing and empirically demonstrating that fines are just a "business risk" and that people often weigh the cost of the fine against the potential benefit that violating a rule costs. This MS stuff is a great example of that.
The same will happen with this if forced. Ms will spend a few million spewing F.U.D. telling people how their system protects you from malicious programs, and would you rather destroy your computer or would you prefer this. Considering the current climate regarding terrorism, you can probably guess what would happen.
Sad story, but true. It's funny how people still really try hard to justify that MS is doing something right or trying really hard to look the other way. I guess it's less painful that way. We have a win10 laptop in the experimental lab here at the faculty for research. It registers a lot of information about participants. It is connected to the internet. I tried to warn them against the potential violation of privacy (according to the American Psychological Association Code of Ethics you have to guard privacy). But they just state things like "we have nothing to hide". That old argument.
I really didn't knew that. That is scary stuff. So they basically backported telemetry.Nothing basic about it, it's exactly what they did.Yeah, I didn't really expect linux to go this route. I hope at least linux will remain a somewhat viable option.
Canonical learned a hard lesson from it and they have yet to recover from it competely, go look at Distrowatch and see where Ubuntu ranks.
They went from first, to third.
They get half the traffic as Debian, which gets 2/3rds the traffic of Mint.
What gets me is many pushed for Linux to be more Windows like, and many said absolutely not. Then Microsoft makes a huge blunder removing the start menu, leaving Linux more Windows-like than Windows, and what does Ubuntu and Gnome do? Instead of capitalizing on that they both enter the race for a tablet ui. There's a reason Cinnamon (built on top of Gnome 3) is climbing the charts at an amazing rate.
As for being viable, there has never been a time in history that Linux was more viable than right now. I see Open office on more and more computers these days, where it used to only ever be Office. Cinnamon and KDE have pretty much closed the gap in terms of the desktop environments, and Steam is making great strides on Linux gaming. Driver support direct from companies is getting better as well, in fact the only company really going backwards on Linux support, seems to be Intel.
It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.
I get what you are saying. But this doesn't justify anything MS is doing.MS is in a fight for survival.
What they are doing with Win10 is similar to what they are doing with Office, and what other mobile companies have been doing all along, selling the data. MS has to bide their time until they can find a way to breach the mobile market, which so far has eluded them.
They gave away 5% of the desktop market selling their soul for a 3% share in the dying tablet market, and a dwindling 1% share in the phone market.
Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone. Don't call them dead yet though, MS has a massive fund for acquiring companies and an almost equally large one stashed just for emergencies. They are not in the situation Blackberry was. MS can stick around a long time on what money they have and resort to familiar tactics, quietly buying up tech companies already with a foot in the door. Buying Nokia proved fruitless, but what if they bough LG or Samsung's phone division... Sounds insane? There was rumors about LG recently.
I see them doing that. Actually, they have tried to win competition like this a few times earlier on. They have temporarily bought (but sold off again) Corel, which held Corel Draw and... Word Perfect.
It sounds like there is no way back, no real solution. I have thought about building a linux firewall, which serves as a proxy. Literally log every connection coming in and coming out, try to find human readable names for the ips. Do deep packet inspection and find out wtf is going on these days. But that would be really a lot of work.Even running everything through a proxy or firewall will not fix it, yes, you stop MS, but you still crippled the OS if you don't let the data through.
There is a way back, to an extent.
There are bills coming down to limit spying on you at the ISP/router level, but that will not stop device and OS manufacturers from spying.
From there it gets more difficult.
There is unconfirmed reports that Lenovos now have spyware built into them at the hardware level, so you may want to avoid them, but there are other alternatives. We are now starting to see entire laptops and other systems made entirely of open source parts, often QUITE expensive I think that's being paranoid and/or unrealistic since you never truly know 100%.
You can however buy from reputable sources (preferably made in a country not know for such shenanigans) and use Linux. Some older Sony laptops were made in Japan with Japanese chips. For phones, look into custom roms built using Cyanogenmod (NOT Cyanogen, similar tech, different purposes), AOKP, or others, these will have as much spying removed as possible. But to remain that way, you really need to leave out the Google Apps and API system. Most mapping systems rely on the Google API, as do a lot of browsers and other functions, but you can have a fully working smart phone without it.
However, the second biggest leak of your data is still going to be social media.
Something else to think about all of this, too, at some point you become a target simply for not showing up anywhere. There are sites you can go to tell you how unique your browser data is, in many case, the more you try to hide, more unique you become, eve if they do not know who you are, they can track you just as easily. It's like wearing a trench coat to hide your identity, it works fine in winter, but in summer, you stick out like a sore thumb.
Here is one of those sites:
https://panopticlick.eff.org/
Thanks, really interesting.
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:31:46
Why? Because the pc market is going to die in the next 10 years, everything will be running off your cell phone.
Are you saying "die" die - or just fall into a niche market like mechanical keyboards?
Because I see power users and gamers and other aficionados continuing to want/need their multi-hundred-dollar keyboards and graphics cards and monitors, while the peons will carry around little things in their pockets that old men like me can't even see without our reading glasses and can hardly even use with just our stubby fingers.
Yeah I don't really see the desktop pc falling into a minority. But it may be that I'm just stubborn, old fashioned and can't let go.
The way I see it, is that the fact that pc sales are at the same rate or shrinking simply reflects the lack of innovation or PC manufacturers still trying to shove compromised products down our throats (like PC laptops... wtf is up with that).
But I understand that very light PC users don't need a keyboard to type a letter and that a tablet and a phone is enough for them.
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:33:49
"They" have already been saying that for almost 10 years about PCs and keyboards. Computers with keyboards aren't going anywhere any time soon. People who are only consumers of tech will stick with their phones and tablets. While those who produce and maintain tech will continue using the most effective input method(s) we have right now.Everyone was saying it would be replaced by notebooks, then tablets now phones, that it will be gone. I'm saying it will become a dumb terminal for your phone as they converge, which is already happening. The tower itself will disappear, replaced by the cell phone, it's already possible, it just has yet to catch on. Motorola already did it, MS and Ubuntu has already shown off this technology, and Clambook and Nexdock are working on it.
When this convergence happens, your laptop, desktop and tablet just becomes a dumb interface to enhance your cell phone. This means it will be CHEAP since it has no storage, or memory, and if it breaks, you lost nothing. You can already experience this with your cell phone, just get an HDMI to whatever your phone has (mhl, hdmi, etc), and then a bluetooth mouse and keyboard.
This doesn't mean your workstation or gaming computer will disappear, but the pc tower will go back to being a specialty item like it once was. You will only buy one if you need that extra power, not for browsing the internet.
Good point. Most people around me actually only DO own a laptop now for serious productivity and no longer a proper desktop, myself included. I moved away from a desktop somewhere in around 2006. Apple laptops became so powerful I didn't really saw a purpose of having a separate more powerful desktop. That, plus the fact that I commute.
But more recently, I think that laptops are going backwards and are becoming less powerful compared to desktops and more expensive. For the first time in like 10 years or so, I am seriously considering buying or building a desktop again.
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 25 April 2016, 06:36:05
Btw.. is there a REALLY GOOD SOLID WAY to disable all privacy ripping / snooping features completely and for sure?
Or are you basically screwed with Win10?
Get a Mac or install GNU/Linux.
Setting up a Mac at least Apple lead you through the process of what to share and what not to share.
So basically, there is no way to know for sure that MS is not ringing home?
Exactly.
Actually you'd be pretty sure they are sending stuff back. They read all your Skype messages and follow links you post - they have already admitted to that.
Same goes for Apple and even Ubuntu. The potential is there for any OS and it's been that way for at least the last ~20 years.
Ubuntu does for their search facility. And provides sponsored adverts as part of the search results. Or have they stopped that now?
Apple is ever so slightly different, as if you are running an Apple operating system then you should be using Apple hardware. And chances are you have bought more software from Apple to use on Apple hardware under your Apple operating system. And probably have an Apple phone and/or tablet too. Maybe even an Apple tv. They are all designed to work together and complement each other, and Apple doesn't really need to sell your information to anyone else because they are already the biggest computer company, and if you are already using all Apple hardware/software why would they care about you buying third party software.
But yes, Apple does (probably) store iMessage data and Siri searches. And obviously anything in iCloud.
Does that bother me (using mostly Apple stuff)? Not really - I don't use Siri or iCloud, most non-Google searches I do via a terminal (find . -name something.ext), and iMessage - well, whatever message transport system you use the data has to pass through a third party. I would rather Apple than most of the others.
I'm not really afraid of Apple particularly, because their core business is shoving iDevices down our throats, accompanied by the Apple ecosystem. Facebook and Google are all about the data. And MS is basically the b*tch of US government and they don't really have one particularly well defined core business in terms of a clear long term strategy (yes, I know, they have Office and Windows). They do so many things poorly, it is very diluted if you ask me.
Though, it would be a REALLY clever scam if Apple markets that they are not harvesting your personal data so that people trust Apple blindly and in the end it turns out Apple is the worst of them all.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 25 April 2016, 07:42:12
It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.
Huh, I did not realize that Open Office still existed until I Googled it.
I have been running both Office 2010 and Libre Office ("in parallel") on my Windows boxes for half a decade, with Libre Office now getting over 90% of the action and only opening Office 2010 when it is absolutely necessary. I know that it is all about what you get used to, but I find Libre Office more straightforward and easier to navigate. MS Office put me off when they started employing "the ribbon" and it has never gotten easier because many of my most-often-used procedures are buried deep. Plus the fact that Libre Office is free and always updated to the latest version. I will be done with MS Office when the "subscription-only" < feature > kicks in.
Similarly, I have ditched Photoshop Elements in favor of Gimp, with somewhat less joy and success, because Gimp is significantly more complex than Elements (which is about all I really need) but probably less satisfying for full-blown Photoshop professionals. And its refusal to use common file types such as .JPG "natively" is a continuing bother. But I am getting ever more comfortable with it, and the "free" part is even more significant there.
PS - Apple is the worst of them all
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 25 April 2016, 09:16:51
It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.
Huh, I did not realize that Open Office still existed until I Googled it.
I have been running both Office 2010 and Libre Office ("in parallel") on my Windows boxes for half a decade, with Libre Office now getting over 90% of the action and only opening Office 2010 when it is absolutely necessary. I know that it is all about what you get used to, but I find Libre Office more straightforward and easier to navigate. MS Office put me off when they started employing "the ribbon" and it has never gotten easier because many of my most-often-used procedures are buried deep. Plus the fact that Libre Office is free and always updated to the latest version. I will be done with MS Office when the "subscription-only" < feature > kicks in.
I have tried to switch to Open / Libre Office many times before. But it never worked properly with documents I had to exchange with colleagues (primarily tables being messed up).
Similarly, I have ditched Photoshop Elements in favor of Gimp, with somewhat less joy and success, because Gimp is significantly more complex than Elements (which is about all I really need) but probably less satisfying for full-blown Photoshop professionals. And its refusal to use common file types such as .JPG "natively" is a continuing bother. But I am getting ever more comfortable with it, and the "free" part is even more significant there.
PS - Apple is the worst of them all
I use Lightroom and I honestly cannot see a realistic alternative for that (that is open source I mean).
Why do you think Apple is worst of them all? Only thing I know is that the "feature" of re-developing iWorks meant a lot of features missing out on initially that I needed, so that drove me away from Pages as well.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 25 April 2016, 09:37:43
My computer is like my work bench and is subject to continuous tweaking and incremental repairs and upgrades.
Apple "does not play well with others" - my wife worships at the altar of the Apple and her work and files are often incompatible with everyone else.
Apple is quick to abandon and orphan even its own offspring - how arrogant and offensive is that?
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:35:02
Sad story, but true. It's funny how people still really try hard to justify that MS is doing something right or trying really hard to look the other way. I guess it's less painful that way. We have a win10 laptop in the experimental lab here at the faculty for research. It registers a lot of information about participants. It is connected to the internet. I tried to warn them against the potential violation of privacy (according to the American Psychological Association Code of Ethics you have to guard privacy). But they just state things like "we have nothing to hide". That old argument.The gov is also getting Win10 in a few places.
I've dealt with Hippa laws a bit, you have a contract with MS by having paid them. This leaves your company in the clear in regards to sharing data with MS, however, it means MS needs to also comply with hippa. Which honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they do since they also work with hospitals.
It IS a good time for linux I gues. I still hate Open Office to the bone though, but I guess almost anything is better now than MS office itself.Win1.9 seems to do okay with office 2010 32bit.
By the way, while I still believe they killed their deal with Amazon (I don't use Ubuntu), Cannonical announced yesterday that search would have internet search turned off by default in this latest release.
I see them doing that. Actually, they have tried to win competition like this a few times earlier on. They have temporarily bought (but sold off again) Corel, which held Corel Draw and... Word Perfect.MS invested in them, but it was all non-voting shares, did the same with Apple, neither would not be here without it. Vector Capital eventually bought out most of the shares of Corel.
Thanks, really interesting.You're welcome.
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:46:31
From the beginning I have objected to the Apple philosophy that your computer is a disposable appliance.
My computer is like my work bench and is subject to continuous tweaking and incremental repairs and upgrades.
Apple "does not play well with others" - my wife worships at the altar of the Apple and her work and files are often incompatible with everyone else.
Apple is quick to abandon and orphan even its own offspring - how arrogant and offensive is that?
I completely agre, with one exception: durability. Yes, rev 1 might break and is underpowered with Apple products, but all later Apple hardware still runs well. My current laptop is almost six years old.
Still, I agree. My computer is also my workbench. Only until recently have I found the need to custom mod my pc again.
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 25 April 2016, 17:53:20
Huh, I did not realize that Open Office still existed until I Googled it.Open Office is dead, what remains are (several) forks of it.
I have been running both Office 2010 and Libre Office ("in parallel") on my Windows boxes for half a decade, with Libre Office now getting over 90% of the action and only opening Office 2010 when it is absolutely necessary.
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 25 April 2016, 18:22:29
I completely agre, with one exception: durability. Yes, rev 1 might break and is underpowered with Apple products, but all later Apple hardware still runs well. My current laptop is almost six years old.
Actually, Apple uses average quality internal components, though they have been getting better.
Yes, what you see is quality, screen, keyboard, etc... but inside was/is a different story. Systems have historically used low speed, average memory and drives, sometimes even low end. And while in most cases that was fine, there have been some real piles of garbage come out of there. The G4 laptop was particularly bad, the G5 had mixed results, as were some of the first few generations of Intel powered ones. Even many Iphones are meh in terms of quality internals. The latest ones will do well, but there's nothing inside is why. It's a cell phone sized board, with no user serviceable parts, don't expect these to hold value like previous generations, we are already seeing this trend on the Minis, which started having fewer and fewer serviceable parts.
People have the perception that Apple quality is better than average, just as they do for Cadillac, Jaguar and Mercedes, insurers will tell you a very different story (Apples comes in as average, Cadillac, Jag, and Mercedes well below). What these companies do well though is brand perception (and in Apple's case, customer service).
So why do Apples last? While it's true they get less infections (which can cause wear on the hd), the more important factor is that you tend to treat a $1200 quality feeling laptop a whole lot better than you would a $300 plastic turd. Do you care if your $300 3 year old Dell gets a scratch, no, in fact, you probably WANT it to die so you can replace it.
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 25 April 2016, 23:47:52
I completely agre, with one exception: durability. Yes, rev 1 might break and is underpowered with Apple products, but all later Apple hardware still runs well. My current laptop is almost six years old.
Actually, Apple uses average quality internal components, though they have been getting better.
Yes, what you see is quality, screen, keyboard, etc... but inside was/is a different story. Systems have historically used low speed, average memory and drives, sometimes even low end. And while in most cases that was fine, there have been some real piles of garbage come out of there. The G4 laptop was particularly bad, the G5 had mixed results, as were some of the first few generations of Intel powered ones. Even many Iphones are meh in terms of quality internals. The latest ones will do well, but there's nothing inside is why. It's a cell phone sized board, with no user serviceable parts, don't expect these to hold value like previous generations, we are already seeing this trend on the Minis, which started having fewer and fewer serviceable parts.
People have the perception that Apple quality is better than average, just as they do for Cadillac, Jaguar and Mercedes, insurers will tell you a very different story (Apples comes in as average, Cadillac, Jag, and Mercedes well below). What these companies do well though is brand perception (and in Apple's case, customer service).
So why do Apples last? While it's true they get less infections (which can cause wear on the hd), the more important factor is that you tend to treat a $1200 quality feeling laptop a whole lot better than you would a $300 plastic turd. Do you care if your $300 3 year old Dell gets a scratch, no, in fact, you probably WANT it to die so you can replace it.
I realize it is anecdotal, but my mom's Cadillac has been great. Couple minor issues with the fob that finally got sorted out to a bogus battery, and a couple car battery issues, but outside of that, it hasn't given my parents a lick of trouble. It is an 05 STS. Though the engine isn't factory. My mom drove through some flood water in 08 and water locked the engine. The new engine came from a junk yard out of a DTS whose previous owner pulled out in front of a dump truck. That engine only had about a thousand miles on it at the time of transplant.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 April 2016, 07:00:09
just as they do for Cadillac, Jaguar and Mercedes, insurers will tell you a very different story
These were indeed superior cars through the 1950s-1960s but since then they have been cruising on their former glorious reputations.
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 26 April 2016, 12:19:30
I completely agre, with one exception: durability. Yes, rev 1 might break and is underpowered with Apple products, but all later Apple hardware still runs well. My current laptop is almost six years old.
Actually, Apple uses average quality internal components, though they have been getting better.
Yes, what you see is quality, screen, keyboard, etc... but inside was/is a different story. Systems have historically used low speed, average memory and drives, sometimes even low end. And while in most cases that was fine, there have been some real piles of garbage come out of there. The G4 laptop was particularly bad, the G5 had mixed results, as were some of the first few generations of Intel powered ones. Even many Iphones are meh in terms of quality internals. The latest ones will do well, but there's nothing inside is why. It's a cell phone sized board, with no user serviceable parts, don't expect these to hold value like previous generations, we are already seeing this trend on the Minis, which started having fewer and fewer serviceable parts.
Two things:
1) how do you establish that apple's internals are of mediocre quality? Where do you get this information? I'm not saying that Apple is great or worse, I'm just curious what the truth behind apple's internal build quality is.
2) I completely agree with the pre-unibody era. I had a 2006 MBP and that was horrible build quality. Even the outer shell (with the plastic frame holding up all the aluminum plates).
People have the perception that Apple quality is better than average, just as they do for Cadillac, Jaguar and Mercedes, insurers will tell you a very different story (Apples comes in as average, Cadillac, Jag, and Mercedes well below). What these companies do well though is brand perception (and in Apple's case, customer service).
So why do Apples last? While it's true they get less infections (which can cause wear on the hd), the more important factor is that you tend to treat a $1200 quality feeling laptop a whole lot better than you would a $300 plastic turd. Do you care if your $300 3 year old Dell gets a scratch, no, in fact, you probably WANT it to die so you can replace it.
I see your point that you would, theoretically, be more careful with your $$$ laptop than with your average PC laptop. But that's, again, the outside. From my experience, PC laptops are EXTREMELY unreliable and I've had many in the 1200-2000$ range, which drove me eventually to Apple.
My ex-GF had a Sony Vaio. Trackpad started to do weird things within 2 months (Synaptics). Battery missed 20% capacity after 3 months, lasting only 3.5 hour with light browsing and medium screen brightness as opposed to the advertised 5 hours (yes I know that the advertised battery is always off in PC-world, but the capacity is something you can read out). Screen had dead pixels, no replacement guarantee.
I had an Acer laptop myself. Hinge came loose, keyboard started to misregister, battery died off quickly, noisy, ran hot. HDD died twice.
Similar issues with HP laptop I had and 2 Toshiba's.
Now on to Apple: 3 macbook airs around me (1 GF, 2 of my friends), all 3-5 years old and still run perfectly. Even batter is OK.
My own late 2010 MBP (almost 6 years old an 1000 cycles) still has 84% of battery capacity. Runs like new though slower on El Capitan (has an SSD btw).
Other friend of mine has 2011 MBP, also runs fine.
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 27 April 2016, 07:27:11
Two things:I didn't say mediocre (that would be a G4), I said average. Average is fine, mediocre sucks. They have gotten progressively better on their components... Minus a few exceptions, and yes there have been some problems in recent years.
1) how do you establish that apple's internals are of mediocre quality? Where do you get this information? I'm not saying that Apple is great or worse, I'm just curious what the truth behind apple's internal build quality is.
Besides experience (plenty), I pay attention to industry reports. Deal with enough computers you see trends, but also, if you work in the industry, especially when you are making recommendations for businesses, you need to follow this stuff. I tear things apart and look at tear downs to know what's in them.
Going back to Apple, it was well known they used low grade memory (a decent brand but a generation behind what was current speed) and while the dvd drives they used were high tech, they were problematic. Chips inside were also of average quality, they didn't always use the latest chipset, or the fastest, but it was solid. It's not a problem, but it's not what you expected considering the price.
As for today..
The most frequent failure on a computer was the DVD drive, followed by the hard drive, distantly followed by either the backlight or the fan. How many of those are in your computer? Apple was one of the first to ditch the DVD (their drives were notorious for failures) and also one of the first to ditch spinning drives. So why would a Mac be far more reliable than a cheap Acer? It lacks the two most common failure points. Not to mention, you are comparing a $1200-$2500 laptop, with one that probably cost around $300. It's not a fair competition when the average PC notebook is half the price and designed to last 2 years.
Give me an equal dollar Lenovo, older Sony (they sold their laptop division), Toshiba, heck, even an equal value Dell or HP of equal class*, and I guarantee you the results will be far different.
*I'll explain in a second
I see your point that you would, theoretically, be more careful with your $$$ laptop than with your average PC laptop. But that's, again, the outside. From my experience, PC laptops are EXTREMELY unreliable and I've had many in the 1200-2000$ range, which drove me eventually to Apple.
Now on to Apple: 3 macbook airs around me (1 GF, 2 of my friends), all 3-5 years old and still run perfectly. Even batter is OK.
Here is what most people don't undertsand with computers, particularly notebooks, there are classes to them. At the low end you have the home computer, these are usually your cheap Dells, HP, Acer, etc... By design these are only engineered to last 2-3 years under normal use, that's it. From there you have small business class/prosumer, these are engineered for a bit more durability and are meant to go 3-5 years, next is corporate level, these are meant to be easily serviceable, durable and reliable, they may not always look great, but they are expected to go 5-10 years (Lenovo X and T series dominate this class). Finally you get the executive class, this is where you get your Lenovo Carbon, Sony carbon edition, Apple Macbook Pro and such. These are the more exotics, they look better, are lighter and have nicer features, but they may or may not be any more reliable or have better components than the small business class.
Prices can jump all over. You can spend $1400 and get a home computer, and there are small business/corporate models in the $500 range, or you can spend $3000 and sometimes you get all of these at all of these prices from a single company. Executive systems typically start around $1200 and the sky is the limit, but their reliability is all over the board. All can have the same processors and memory. The corporate will most likely look the most bland, while the home system could be the flashiest and appear to have the most features. This is why you see an Acer with a Core I5 that costs $600, and then you look over and see an ugly Lenovo with an I5 and less memory for $1400. If you don't know any better you think the person is foolish buying they $1400 model. The $600 machine will probably not last as long, has a cheap display, touchpad and keyboard. And yet, you might get a Toshiba on sale for $800 that outlasts them both. It's completely unfair to compare a Macbook to a home pc, it's like comparing a a Kia to a Lexus but it's often what everyone does.
So where are all of these better pc's, well you don't usually find them at Best Buy because of what I said above. Try selling a $1400 Lenovo, a company the average Joe may have never heard of, when there is an HP or Acer sitting there that looks better, has the same specs and costs $350. He doesn't know about durability, what a good touchpad is like or how much better the screen is without them sitting side by side. He knows one looks better, has equal specs and dad or grandpa always had an HP.
Look, I'm not trying to trash Macs (other than their stupid single button and gesture BS), I actually respect them, but I recommend my customers follow the trend of who's giving you the best return on investment. Apple is (consistently) one of the most reliable on the market (these days), they look great and run well, and if you aren't sure which to go with, they are a safe bet, but that comes at a cost. I cant recommend a $1500 Mac to a small business when I know there are systems out there that give you 99% of the reliability, with Windows compatibility, for half the price (and is less likely to walk off). Mac is a luxury, not a necessity and for some businesses it can even be a liability. The world runs on Windows, sorry, it's true*.
*I'm not much of a Windows fan, but my customers need it.
Post by: Shapey Fiend on Wed, 27 April 2016, 15:52:26
Other thing is I want to dump all my work files into OneDrive but getting the old filenames too long error.
Realise I'm probably gonna have to use third party apps to solve these issues anybody got some recommendations?
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 27 April 2016, 22:55:48
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 28 April 2016, 00:23:48
(Attachment Link)
Oh man
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 28 April 2016, 05:30:20
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 28 April 2016, 08:07:52
After install, I instantly got rid of that weird crap like Bing and Cortina. Whatever they did to Internet Explorer is bizarre, so I got Firefox up ASAP and tried to ignore IE (and did they give it a new name, too?) as much as possible.
I got all those irrelevant "tiles" off the desktop right away, too. Having the ones I actually need come up in the Start menu is not bad at all, since my eyesight is not what it once was, they are probably easier for me to use than the old small Start menu. I never really understood what the "tiles" and "charms" business was all about anyway, nothing more than slightly glorified icons as far as I could tell.
With the desktop and system tray populated with my most-used programs, and keyboard shortcuts set up for whatever I could, this is really not so different, and I did not have to resort to any of those 3rd-party "Windows 7-esque skins" or whatever you call them.
Windows 10 does seem faster and cleaner, boot-up is quite swift but shut-down seems to drag on.
It does seem like some of the "System" and "Administration" type stuff is crippled or absent, though. My "user account" or whatever seems to have a stripped-down set of options - I don't even get to select a chess piece or whatever for my personal logo. Power settings, screen savers, etc, often seem to refuse to "take" no matter how many times I change them.
Finally, it seems like Windows Explorer gets crippled and obfuscated further with each iteration of Windows. I know that I am an old curmudgeon, but Explorer is my go-to for everything. When I want to find or open a file, I find it in my directory structure via Explorer and open it from there. So I want to see the directory tree in its cleanest and simplest state, and viable "Open With" settings are crucial to me.
I have never seemed to be able to get my mind around the purpose of parking "recently viewed" files, or "libraries" or "playlists" on top of and/or in the middle of what I am actually trying to see. And, last, not having a menu bar easily accessible is a pain, I hate having to dig around in a "ribbon" to find basic choices.
Post by: user 18 on Thu, 28 April 2016, 13:23:39
After install, I instantly got rid of that weird crap like Bing and Cortina. Whatever they did to Internet Explorer is bizarre, so I got Firefox up ASAP and tried to ignore IE (and did they give it a new name, too?) as much as possible.
There's IE11, which is ostensibly the last version of IE. There's also Edge, which is supposedly a completely new browser on a new engine. I'm not a fan of either.
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 28 April 2016, 18:00:14
After install, I instantly got rid of that weird crap like Bing and Cortina.I know Lotus Corntinas are a strange car to some Americans, but please don't disparage it by lumping it in with Bing and Cortana. :))
Finally, it seems like Windows Explorer gets crippled and obfuscated further with each iteration of Windows. I know that I am an old curmudgeon, but Explorer is my go-to for everything. When I want to find or open a file, I find it in my directory structure via Explorer and open it from there. So I want to see the directory tree in its cleanest and simplest state, and viable "Open With" settings are crucial to me.
Edit: not sure where I had that idea.
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 28 April 2016, 18:12:50
After install, I instantly got rid of that weird crap like Bing and Cortina.I know Lotus Corntinas are a strange car to some Americans, but please don't disparage it by lumping it in with Bing and Cortana. :))Finally, it seems like Windows Explorer gets crippled and obfuscated further with each iteration of Windows. I know that I am an old curmudgeon, but Explorer is my go-to for everything. When I want to find or open a file, I find it in my directory structure via Explorer and open it from there. So I want to see the directory tree in its cleanest and simplest state, and viable "Open With" settings are crucial to me.There are registry hacks to hide the library (the ones used on Win7 and 8 work), I highly recommend doing so. Personally, I think Win10's Explorer is actually a bit better than some previous versions, it can be a bit quirky, but works well overall after some tweaks to the interface. Also, while the interface isn't always great, file transfers over a network is actually quite improved over previous Windows versions. This probably doesn't matter to most people, but I use a home file server and it's makes a noticeable difference, or at least it did for the time I was using it.
I'm not a super user by any stretch of the imagination but I do agree with what you mentioned regarding Windows 10's explorer. For once I don't have to browse through layers of folders to uninstall something. I can press my win key and type in the specific application or setting. This is the first copy of Windows in which I've needed to create a taskbar button/batch file to restart explorer but I like it when it works.
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 28 April 2016, 18:36:12
I'm not a super user by any stretch of the imagination but I do agree with what you mentioned regarding Windows 10's explorer. For once I don't have to browse through layers of folders to uninstall something. I can press my win key and type in the specific application or setting. This is the first copy of Windows in which I've needed to create a taskbar button/batch file to restart explorer but I like it when it works.You mean the start menu...
Since Vista (possibly earlier) you could press winkey and start typing a name, Win10 forced you to learn that because the UI is so bad.
Personally, I dislike the Win10 start menu, I hate scrolling through tons to find something. It's FAR better than Win8, but for desktop use it's not as good as Win7. I always rearranged my start menu to only have a couple folders. On Win7 I could open any program in 3 clicks with no scrolling, Win10 removed a click, but requires either typing or scrolling.
There is an old web and IU rule that says you should be able to reach anything quickly and within 3 clicks and never any more than 5. With very little effort, Win7 was the most efficient Windows UI. It's not alone in this though, Mac and Linux have also gone backwards in terms of UI.
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 28 April 2016, 18:56:03
I'm not a super user by any stretch of the imagination but I do agree with what you mentioned regarding Windows 10's explorer. For once I don't have to browse through layers of folders to uninstall something. I can press my win key and type in the specific application or setting. This is the first copy of Windows in which I've needed to create a taskbar button/batch file to restart explorer but I like it when it works.You mean the start menu...
Since Vista (possibly earlier) you could press winkey and start typing a name, Win10 forced you to learn that because the UI is so bad.
Personally, I dislike the Win10 start menu, I hate scrolling through tons to find something. It's FAR better than Win8, but for desktop use it's not as good as Win7. I always rearranged my start menu to only have a couple folders. On Win7 I could open any program in 3 clicks with no scrolling, Win10 removed a click, but requires either typing or scrolling.
There is an old web and IU rule that says you should be able to reach anything quickly and within 3 clicks and never any more than 5. With very little effort, Win7 was the most efficient Windows UI. It's not alone in this though, Mac and Linux have also gone backwards in terms of UI.
Technically the start menu is explorer. I guess some people wouldn't make that association. Every time I restart explorer it restarts the start menu/taskbar. I figured this search feature wasn't something new but Windows 10 is the first version of Windows I've used that searches through system files before systematically checking files by name.
My start menu has four big tiles: weather, mail, calendar, notes, and 12 small tiles for program shortcuts. No scrolling necessary thankfully
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 28 April 2016, 23:06:07
Technically the start menu is explorer. I guess some people wouldn't make that association. Every time I restart explorer it restarts the start menu/taskbar. I figured this search feature wasn't something new but Windows 10 is the first version of Windows I've used that searches through system files before systematically checking files by name.Pretty much everything you see on the desktop itself is handled by explorer.exe, taskbar, start menu, desktop icons...
My start menu has four big tiles: weather, mail, calendar, notes, and 12 small tiles for program shortcuts. No scrolling necessary thankfully
While Windows Explorer is a part of explorer.exe, it's considered the name of the file manager alone.
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 29 April 2016, 00:31:43
Technically the start menu is explorer. I guess some people wouldn't make that association. Every time I restart explorer it restarts the start menu/taskbar. I figured this search feature wasn't something new but Windows 10 is the first version of Windows I've used that searches through system files before systematically checking files by name.Pretty much everything you see on the desktop itself is handled by explorer.exe, taskbar, start menu, desktop icons...
My start menu has four big tiles: weather, mail, calendar, notes, and 12 small tiles for program shortcuts. No scrolling necessary thankfully
While Windows Explorer is a part of explorer.exe, it's considered the name of the file manager alone.
When explorer.exe crashes, the whole desktop disappears.
When explorer.exe hangs, the whole desktop (and by extension, the whole system) hangs.
Post by: Altis on Tue, 03 May 2016, 07:58:59
It's painful because I need to babysit it since every time it will restart into Mac OSX if I don't intervene.
I've managed to make it stop by disabling the Windows Update service, but now it's out of date and I can't get updates.
One thing I did try is enabling "Metered" mode so that it would only install the most important updates. The update size went down drastically, but it still failed just the same. That's why I wish that I could select which updates it installs and remove the one that's causing it to fail.
I've always favored MS Windows but it's been unbearable for years now and Microsoft are perfectly happy driving everyone mental with their arm-twist mentality. Windows 7 will probably go down as the best Windows release, IMO.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 20 May 2016, 16:54:04
He swears that he never accepted the 10 nag, but maybe he is mistaken. Has Microsoft added more aggressive push to its updates?
We went ahead and rode it in, and seemed to go quick and smooth and everything was unchanged when we finished, so I suppose that it is all OK.
(We were going to do it soon anyway, probably next month, before the free deadline ran out.)
For months, on update Tuesdays, I have noticed that my 10 update box has been checked and I have regularly unchecked it
Post by: redbanshee on Fri, 20 May 2016, 17:21:18
"Never10"
https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
Ive used this so much, lifesaver for sure
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 20 May 2016, 17:36:31
Post by: Leslieann on Fri, 20 May 2016, 18:07:11
This afternoon my son booted up his (8.1) computer only to discover the Windows 10 welcome screen.He probably didn't do it.
He swears that he never accepted the 10 nag, but maybe he is mistaken. Has Microsoft added more aggressive push to its updates?
There are TONS of reports of it doing it automatically, and MS has been known to occasionally "mistakenly" mark it as a critical update and they are becoming more and more aggressive as time goes on.
So yeah, don't blame him.
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 20 May 2016, 20:46:13
There is a small (83k) program written by Steve Gibson that disables these forced updates:
"Never10"
https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
Thank you so much! Exactly what I was looking for, since I have the same copy of 8.1 installed on both of my kids' desktops, and 1 of them has already updated to 10, it makes me feel good to have defeated the other's attempts before they even start. I am guessing that Microsoft will let the duplication slide but would not have allowed a double step up.
Post by: dante on Sat, 21 May 2016, 16:37:32
There is a small (83k) program written by Steve Gibson that disables these forced updates:
"Never10"
https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
Ive used this so much, lifesaver for sure
I love you! The Win 10 nagware has gone from recommending upgrading to asking me when I'd like to schedule the downloaded updates.
I'll install Win 10 when Win 7 support is dropped.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 21 May 2016, 16:54:37
I'll install Win 10 when Win 7 support is dropped.
But it will only be free for a couple of more months.
I finally bit the bullet a few weeks ago and I have been very pleased. I instantly got rid of the silly crap like Bing and Cortana and whatever they renamed IE, then got all those stupid tile things off the desktop so that I have something that looks clean and comfortable. Naturally, you have to learn a new way of finding stuff, like you do with every new version of Windows, but supposedly this is the "last" version so you may not need to re-learn everything yet again.
The thing that used to be the start menu is actually pretty good once you delete the mountain of useless garbage they clutter it with. I have not yet discovered how to get and keep decent-looking widgets. I really enjoy having a nice big clock/weather widget.
And the selection of screen savers is extremely paltry.
Post by: dante on Sat, 21 May 2016, 16:58:08
I'll install Win 10 when Win 7 support is dropped.
But it will only be free for a couple of more months.
That's fine. Come to think of it by the time Win 7 support ends I may just replace it with BSD or a lean version of Linux.
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 21 May 2016, 18:06:12
The thing that used to be the start menu is actually pretty good once you delete the mountain of useless garbage they clutter it with. I have not yet discovered how to get and keep decent-looking widgets. I really enjoy having a nice big clock/weather widget.Don't expect that to stay gone. They have a habit of re-installing all or most of that crap on major updates.
It's worse on the test branch. I had to drop it when it reached a point where I never knew when my start menu and file associations would be reset, worse, they have been known to uninstall software they don't like.
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 24 May 2016, 13:06:22
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/05/24/171215/windows-10-upgrade-activates-by-clicking-red-x-close-button-in-prompt-message (https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/05/24/171215/windows-10-upgrade-activates-by-clicking-red-x-close-button-in-prompt-message)
Apparently, by dismissing the box by clicking the close button, it still updates as opposed to suppressing the message.
Seems like MS is checking out how far they can go before lawsuits appear. I mean.. This is like "Shutting Down" means "MS gets all your money" that's how ridiculous this sounds.
Post by: dgneo on Tue, 24 May 2016, 13:08:40
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 24 May 2016, 13:11:56
Been on 10 since beta, haven't had any issues yet. Not sure what all the fuss is about /shrug
Well, apart from MS downloading your data, if you are NOT on win10, update notifications and sneeky tricks to GET you to win10 is mostly annoying from what I take from it.
Win10 seems decent for the rest, except for the ad-ified start menu.
Post by: dgneo on Tue, 24 May 2016, 13:17:16
Been on 10 since beta, haven't had any issues yet. Not sure what all the fuss is about /shrug
Well, apart from MS downloading your data, if you are NOT on win10, update notifications and sneeky tricks to GET you to win10 is mostly annoying from what I take from it.
Win10 seems decent for the rest, except for the ad-ified start menu.
Was commenting moreso on people's reluctance to update. I agree the upgrades have been super aggressive, but on the other hand, I feel that Microsoft's trying to avoid another ''IM NOT LEAVING XP EVER'.
Granted if people want to be morons and stick to a non supported OS, that's their prerogative.
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 25 May 2016, 08:08:35
Microsoft doesn't have to try and avoid that, it will happen naturally, them being pushy is about money. They may not sell you the OS, but they can make money on the ads they placed in it and in selling your data. You sitting there on Win7 pays them nothing.
People WILL update, it may be while kicking and screaming, but they will.
Vista and XP have already been cutoff in most newer products (printers and wireless in particular) and I won't be surprised if 7 (and 8.0) starts getting dropped in the next 2 years. In fact some newer mainboards will not support windows 7 as it is (due to UEFI and lack of a legacy option). Don't be too surprised if some new hardware only had drivers for Windows 10 within 3 years. Then there are the techs... Once the tools for fighting malware start abandoning an OS, it's finished. Removing a virus by hand isn't only not always possible, but the labor can very quickly exceed what the system is worth. It becomes a salvage operation to recover data for their new computer instead of wasting money trying to save an old box that needs replacing anyhow.
Basically, while you CAN keep an older OS alive and running beyond that time frame, it will become more and more difficult. You either do it yourself, or start paying more and more for repairs (time and/or money), and at some point, the only hardware that will work is older stuff and that means used, slower, and less reliable. People forget how to deal with problems, support pages start getting buried deeper and deeper or removed, sites die, etc... Even the most staunch "XP for life!" people almost all be finished with it soon simply because they won't have any alternative.
Post by: dante on Wed, 25 May 2016, 16:01:58
The ads in the control panel make me want to cry.
My next laptop may very well be OSX based.
edit: just found 'startisback' will have to download and try later. :p :thumb:
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 25 May 2016, 16:09:41
I decided to stop being gramps and upgrade to Win 10. It's OK and will probably be the last OS that particular laptop ever sees. Even with 8GB of RAM and a relatively modern I5 I can feel there is a little drag in there.
The ads in the control panel make me want to cry.
My next laptop may very well be OSX based.
Ads in the control panel? What ads? This is what I see when I open control panel..
(http://i.imgur.com/lIajiH1.jpg)
Post by: dante on Wed, 25 May 2016, 19:53:44
BTW I downloaded startisback and I'm now a believer. :)
I wish MS would let people configure their own GUI via scripts so that they can be brought forward from release to release; they would probably have a lot less resistance that way.
On one other thing... after the install of 10 my sound stopped working. I just removed the drivers and rebooted; and now all is working again. Weird.
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 25 May 2016, 19:59:57
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 25 May 2016, 21:38:35
yeah sorry the start menu not control panel.
BTW I downloaded startisback and I'm now a believer. :)
I wish MS would let people configure their own GUI via scripts so that they can be brought forward from release to release; they would probably have a lot less resistance that way.
On one other thing... after the install of 10 my sound stopped working. I just removed the drivers and rebooted; and now all is working again. Weird.
MS are infamous for NOT letting users configure the UI.
Take Windows XP - it supported "themes", but the only themes available were the two or three built in by Microsoft, and one or two additional themes Microsoft created (e.g. media centre).
Not very themable after all.
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 25 May 2016, 21:49:36
yeah sorry the start menu not control panel.
BTW I downloaded startisback and I'm now a believer. :)
I wish MS would let people configure their own GUI via scripts so that they can be brought forward from release to release; they would probably have a lot less resistance that way.
On one other thing... after the install of 10 my sound stopped working. I just removed the drivers and rebooted; and now all is working again. Weird.
MS are infamous for NOT letting users configure the UI.
Take Windows XP - it supported "themes", but the only themes available were the two or three built in by Microsoft, and one or two additional themes Microsoft created (e.g. media centre).
Not very themable after all.
Aftermarket theme applications for XP were useful but the Win7-8 versions weren't the same imo. These days I'm happy to have a high contrast theme with a few adjustments; I'm not using aftermarket programs to change themes, the start menu icon, or the welcome screen like I did during those XP days. Configuring the UI seems to be more of a Linux thing these days
Post by: Leslieann on Wed, 25 May 2016, 23:39:15
Post by: Altis on Thu, 26 May 2016, 10:38:29
Basically, the updates download and try to install, then after a few reboot cycles of installing updates, it says it failed and is reverting back, which takes another 4 reboots.
I have to babysit it the whole time because the computer will boot to OS X by default, so I have to sit with it for like 20 minutes each time it does it.
I tried enabling "metered connection" as that will try to install only critical updates, but it still failed. I have no control over which updates it's installing so I'm kind of stuck.
At this point, I can't update it. I did manage to kill the updater entirely by preventing that service from starting up with Windows, but I don't like having it out of date for long.
I think I'll just try to put a copy of Windows 7 on there for now. That would also prevent it from absolutely demolishing my mobile data whenever I tether as it wants to download all kinds of stuff right away.
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 26 May 2016, 16:53:08
Unfortunately if MS decides to re-issue it, or feels they fixed it and re-releases it, it will happen again.
About the time I consider putting 10 back on to game a bit or update my tablet, something like this reminds me why it's not on my machines.
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 26 May 2016, 17:03:16
Post by: Altis on Thu, 26 May 2016, 19:31:02
You can disable the update causing the restart and rollback, it's not so easy but does work.
Unfortunately if MS decides to re-issue it, or feels they fixed it and re-releases it, it will happen again.
About the time I consider putting 10 back on to game a bit or update my tablet, something like this reminds me why it's not on my machines.
It's a mess. On top of that, unlike Windows 7, Windows 10 has issues with activation when I run my BootCamp partition (Windows) as a VM in either VMWare Fusion or Parallels. It's activated when I boot directly to Windows, but not activated when I boot it in the VM. Windows 7 let me activate it once and never gave me grief after that.
I've really tried to like Windows 10, but it's arm-twist mentality for every little thing is enough to drive me nuts. I've always given Apple a hard time over that, especially with regards to iOS, but it seems like Microsoft is determined to take it even further.
I'll probably end up with Windows 10 on my gaming machine only, and Windows 7 as my BootCamp partition on the Mac. I've already mostly migrated everything else to OS X.
I just hope Apple doesn't try to one-up them and be even more involved -- and that would be very Apple, indeed.
Post by: dante on Fri, 27 May 2016, 09:22:22
Maybe I've been uncommonly lucky but this was the first issue - ever - I've had with drivers in Windows.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 28 May 2016, 13:47:23
I decided to stop being gramps and upgrade to Win 10. It's OK and will probably be the last OS that particular laptop ever sees. Even with 8GB of RAM and a relatively modern I5 I can feel there is a little drag in there.
The ads in the control panel make me want to cry.
My next laptop may very well be OSX based.
Ads in the control panel? What ads? This is what I see when I open control panel..Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/lIajiH1.jpg)
What's up with dem colors? Are you running EGA?
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 28 May 2016, 13:48:57
yeah sorry the start menu not control panel.
BTW I downloaded startisback and I'm now a believer. :)
I wish MS would let people configure their own GUI via scripts so that they can be brought forward from release to release; they would probably have a lot less resistance that way.
On one other thing... after the install of 10 my sound stopped working. I just removed the drivers and rebooted; and now all is working again. Weird.
MS are infamous for NOT letting users configure the UI.
Take Windows XP - it supported "themes", but the only themes available were the two or three built in by Microsoft, and one or two additional themes Microsoft created (e.g. media centre).
Not very themable after all.
Though I'm more fond of OS X generally, XP was still better compared to Yosemite today. They promised a true "dark theme" in OS X. But then bait-and-switch and all we got was dark menubar and that's it. Bastards.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 28 May 2016, 13:52:01
There was this time (I believe it was Win98SE) where you had to install some updates in a particular order or you would brick your system. Like wrong files overwritten or wrong registry settings and BSODs. It feels like that all over again with Win10. Some updates bricked the system.
You would imagine that the update system would be more reliable nowadays, especially given automatically installing updates. But MS is still MS apparently. For instance, there was Win 1.0 UI code up to Win 7, I believe it was for the font manager.
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Sat, 28 May 2016, 14:27:57
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 28 May 2016, 14:34:16
Recently, a friend of mine asked me to help him upgrade from Vista to 10. It was a nightmare. Actually, I had to revert back to Vista and tell that friend to keep it at that.
There was this time (I believe it was Win98SE) where you had to install some updates in a particular order or you would brick your system. Like wrong files overwritten or wrong registry settings and BSODs. It feels like that all over again with Win10. Some updates bricked the system.
You would imagine that the update system would be more reliable nowadays, especially given automatically installing updates. But MS is still MS apparently. For instance, there was Win 1.0 UI code up to Win 7, I believe it was for the font manager.
Vista to Windows 10.. but why..
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 28 May 2016, 14:35:04
I've heard there's been a change to MS's EULA re: access to private files. Can someone confirm or deny? Reason I'm asking: the EULA is the only thing that prevents me from accepting the free upgrade.
I dunno about changes. But isn't the EULA as is with win10 worse enough that it prevents you from upgrading?
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 28 May 2016, 14:35:35
Recently, a friend of mine asked me to help him upgrade from Vista to 10. It was a nightmare. Actually, I had to revert back to Vista and tell that friend to keep it at that.
There was this time (I believe it was Win98SE) where you had to install some updates in a particular order or you would brick your system. Like wrong files overwritten or wrong registry settings and BSODs. It feels like that all over again with Win10. Some updates bricked the system.
You would imagine that the update system would be more reliable nowadays, especially given automatically installing updates. But MS is still MS apparently. For instance, there was Win 1.0 UI code up to Win 7, I believe it was for the font manager.
Vista to Windows 10.. but why..
No idea actually. No idea why you would stick with vista when win7 is around either.
Post by: Leslieann on Sat, 28 May 2016, 17:04:48
Recently, a friend of mine asked me to help him upgrade from Vista to 10. It was a nightmare. Actually, I had to revert back to Vista and tell that friend to keep it at that.
Any Vista system is going to be quite old, I've gotten to the point I rarely will even work on anything that isn't at least Win7 era (preferably late Win7), and I won't upgrade anything (hardware-wise) not on DDR3. It's just too troublesome and expensive for what you get in return. Trying to jump to jump 1 os generation is bad, but 4? This should never, EVER be done, it needs to be backed up and installed fresh. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the odds are very much against you, plus, each update brings new baggage to the system, tons of wear and tear, it just creates a mess. This is one good thing about 10's update system, it purges everything and only keeps what it needs, rather than actually updating (it does bad things as well though).
More importantly though, by year 4, spinning drive life tends to spiral downward at an increasing rate, what you just did was probably the worst workout that system has EVER experienced. I've killed newer systems just by giving them a good cleaning and tune up, don't be surprised if your friends system sh*ts the bed within the next few months, possibly days. You may want to warn them, and get a backup system in place.
If I was asked to do this, I would have done a thorough check on the system before I touched anything (system specs, temps, drive health, how much dust is in the box), then image it, do a fresh install of 7, put their data back on and call it done. That's IF I would even touch it, systems that old are just too delicate to work that hard.
Post by: NewbieOneKenobi on Mon, 30 May 2016, 10:43:52
I've heard there's been a change to MS's EULA re: access to private files. Can someone confirm or deny? Reason I'm asking: the EULA is the only thing that prevents me from accepting the free upgrade.
I dunno about changes. But isn't the EULA as is with win10 worse enough that it prevents you from upgrading?
The original EULA certainly was that bad, but I've heard people say MS has changed it.
Post by: SBJ on Tue, 31 May 2016, 08:29:31
There's a thread on reddit about it.I've heard there's been a change to MS's EULA re: access to private files. Can someone confirm or deny? Reason I'm asking: the EULA is the only thing that prevents me from accepting the free upgrade.
I dunno about changes. But isn't the EULA as is with win10 worse enough that it prevents you from upgrading?
The original EULA certainly was that bad, but I've heard people say MS has changed it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f69pi/does_windows_10_really_allow_microsoft_to_access/
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 05 June 2016, 17:31:35
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 05 June 2016, 18:06:49
I love all these articles about 10 being forced on users, and here I am wanting to upgrade and finding it impossible. I actually had a few MS engineers over for beers a week ago and even they couldn't figure out why the prompt wan't tripping on my system. 3 MS software engineers in my apartment trying to get 10 to work on my legit copy of 7 on my completely compatible system for almost an hour and a half with no luck. Guess I'm the one ****ing guy on the planet who actually wants it and can't get it.I'm going to bet that it's an early Core I system using EFI.
In any case, it probably will not run Win 8.1 and has to do with the bios/efi system. There's nothing MS can do until the manufacturer updates the Bios (you may want to see if there is an update).
I have a really nice Asus Bamboo laptop that has this exact problem.
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 05 June 2016, 18:35:46
I love all these articles about 10 being forced on users, and here I am wanting to upgrade and finding it impossible. I actually had a few MS engineers over for beers a week ago and even they couldn't figure out why the prompt wan't tripping on my system. 3 MS software engineers in my apartment trying to get 10 to work on my legit copy of 7 on my completely compatible system for almost an hour and a half with no luck. Guess I'm the one ****ing guy on the planet who actually wants it and can't get it.I'm going to bet that it's an early Core I system using EFI.
In any case, it probably will not run Win 8.1 and has to do with the bios/efi system. There's nothing MS can do until the manufacturer updates the Bios (you may want to see if there is an update).
I have a really nice Asus Bamboo laptop that has this exact problem.
It actually is an Asus mobo. If you just solved this mystery I will be very impressed.
We even did the direct download option and burned an iso disc and neither worked.
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 05 June 2016, 18:37:39
I love all these articles about 10 being forced on users, and here I am wanting to upgrade and finding it impossible. I actually had a few MS engineers over for beers a week ago and even they couldn't figure out why the prompt wan't tripping on my system. 3 MS software engineers in my apartment trying to get 10 to work on my legit copy of 7 on my completely compatible system for almost an hour and a half with no luck. Guess I'm the one ****ing guy on the planet who actually wants it and can't get it.I'm going to bet that it's an early Core I system using EFI.
In any case, it probably will not run Win 8.1 and has to do with the bios/efi system. There's nothing MS can do until the manufacturer updates the Bios (you may want to see if there is an update).
I have a really nice Asus Bamboo laptop that has this exact problem.
I had to manually trigger the event myself. Sounds like a load of tough luck :(
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 05 June 2016, 18:47:19
3 MS software engineers in my apartment trying to get 10 to work on my legit copy of 7 on my completely compatible system for almost an hour and a half
If you just solved this mystery I will be very impressed.
I will not be surprised in the slightest if Leslieann knows more about the real world than "3 MS software engineers"
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 05 June 2016, 19:20:10
I almost added that it was probably an Asus board, but changed it. :))It actually is an Asus mobo. If you just solved this mystery I will be very impressed.I love all these articles about 10 being forced on users, and here I am wanting to upgrade and finding it impossible. I actually had a few MS engineers over for beers a week ago and even they couldn't figure out why the prompt wan't tripping on my system. 3 MS software engineers in my apartment trying to get 10 to work on my legit copy of 7 on my completely compatible system for almost an hour and a half with no luck. Guess I'm the one ****ing guy on the planet who actually wants it and can't get it.I'm going to bet that it's an early Core I system using EFI.
In any case, it probably will not run Win 8.1 and has to do with the bios/efi system. There's nothing MS can do until the manufacturer updates the Bios (you may want to see if there is an update).
I have a really nice Asus Bamboo laptop that has this exact problem.
At first I thought it was the hybrid graphics, but that didn't solve the issue and I found other systems with standard graphics had the same problem. Others suspected the nic. I went through and disabled everything I could, I even removed the wireless, no luck. Eventually I stumbled on something that talked about how the ACPI system on Win 8 was different than 8.1. I swapped out the ACPI system on 8.1 to 8.0 (took a few hours) and actually got it to start booting, however, I'm not going down that road. One update could crash it again, or it may not even be stable. I don't know if it would even work at all with 10.
These are just some of the Asus laptops that can't go beyond Win 8.0 that I tracked down. It's no small problem as you can see.
U1F
U1
S6F
S6
U6
U2E
U6V
U33JC
U43J
U43JC
U43SD
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 05 June 2016, 20:23:51
I will not be surprised in the slightest if Leslieann knows more about the real world than "3 MS software engineers"
MS engineers aren't dumb, but most have little real world experience, they went to school and were handed problems out of a book and expected to solve it, by the book. When the book no longer applies, they're often fish out of water. It's why I wouldn't hired trained techs, I much prefer people who learned on their own, they know how to problem solve. I don't care if you don't know how to do something, if you can troubleshoot and have good Google-Fu, you can fix almost anything (if it can be fixed).
While MS people deal with MS products, I have to deal with all the software and hardware offices use to keep running. I may work on something tomorrow I have never seen before and I will never see again, I still have to figure out how to fix it. You can't really teach that in a classroom.
I had to manually trigger the event myself. Sounds like a load of tough luck :(I manually triggered it, used a disk, tried a fresh install.
All Asus has to do to fix it, is get an update from AMI who makes the bios, but they won't do it. I like Asus products, but their support leaves a lot to be desired, few companies actually have good support.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 11 June 2016, 11:37:26
Recently, a friend of mine asked me to help him upgrade from Vista to 10. It was a nightmare. Actually, I had to revert back to Vista and tell that friend to keep it at that.
Any Vista system is going to be quite old, I've gotten to the point I rarely will even work on anything that isn't at least Win7 era (preferably late Win7), and I won't upgrade anything (hardware-wise) not on DDR3. It's just too troublesome and expensive for what you get in return. Trying to jump to jump 1 os generation is bad, but 4? This should never, EVER be done, it needs to be backed up and installed fresh. I'm not saying it can't be done, but the odds are very much against you, plus, each update brings new baggage to the system, tons of wear and tear, it just creates a mess. This is one good thing about 10's update system, it purges everything and only keeps what it needs, rather than actually updating (it does bad things as well though).
More importantly though, by year 4, spinning drive life tends to spiral downward at an increasing rate, what you just did was probably the worst workout that system has EVER experienced. I've killed newer systems just by giving them a good cleaning and tune up, don't be surprised if your friends system sh*ts the bed within the next few months, possibly days. You may want to warn them, and get a backup system in place.
If I was asked to do this, I would have done a thorough check on the system before I touched anything (system specs, temps, drive health, how much dust is in the box), then image it, do a fresh install of 7, put their data back on and call it done. That's IF I would even touch it, systems that old are just too delicate to work that hard.
Very good point. That was the whole problem. I was asked to help WHEN EVERYTHING already went haywire. Basically, once the desktop showed, the computer kept logging out, rebooting, and so forth. It was a night mare. I needed to use Safe Mode to revert back to win vista. I told the friend just to hold out, do a fresh reinstall or to buy another PC. I don't do windows anymore, it always gave me headaches. And people are cheap. They buy crap and expect you – as the nerd – to fix all the stuff they were to cheap to pay for. Like "why can't I play Farcray on 90xFSAA on 2560x1440 with a Geforce Ti 4600" (bit overstated, but you get the point). Or "5400 rpm is a large number. Why is it slow?"
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 11 June 2016, 11:38:02
There's a thread on reddit about it.I've heard there's been a change to MS's EULA re: access to private files. Can someone confirm or deny? Reason I'm asking: the EULA is the only thing that prevents me from accepting the free upgrade.
I dunno about changes. But isn't the EULA as is with win10 worse enough that it prevents you from upgrading?
The original EULA certainly was that bad, but I've heard people say MS has changed it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f69pi/does_windows_10_really_allow_microsoft_to_access/
Thanks! Good to read the details and specifics.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 11 June 2016, 11:38:48
I love all these articles about 10 being forced on users, and here I am wanting to upgrade and finding it impossible. I actually had a few MS engineers over for beers a week ago and even they couldn't figure out why the prompt wan't tripping on my system. 3 MS software engineers in my apartment trying to get 10 to work on my legit copy of 7 on my completely compatible system for almost an hour and a half with no luck. Guess I'm the one ****ing guy on the planet who actually wants it and can't get it.
god loves you. he protects you. he shields you from the danger that is win10 ;-)
Post by: SBJ on Mon, 13 June 2016, 21:21:57
Post by: yomammary on Tue, 14 June 2016, 07:45:56
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 14 June 2016, 07:57:25
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 24 September 2016, 06:31:29
No volume controls at all, it doesn't even appear in the system equaliser section, and in group conversations it defaults to the last message and not the last unread message. Also the preview thing you could close once keeps appearing every time you click on a new window.
Why did they think this was a good idea?
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 24 September 2016, 06:39:12
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 24 September 2016, 12:54:14
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 24 September 2016, 14:02:11
While it's marketed as an update, it's realistically something between a service pack and new OS. Consider it Windows 10.1 essentially. The OS treats it as a brand new OS - you'll notice much like an OS "upgrade" it will have created .old folder locations for data not brought over in the migration, such as Windows.Old and Default.Old
Any major feature updates moving forward may re-enable default OS apps and settings such as Cortana and Onedrive, unfortunately.
Post by: xtrafrood on Sat, 24 September 2016, 14:14:21
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 24 September 2016, 14:15:42
Are you referring to the Anniversary Update 1607?
It actually kept Cortana disabled for me.
Same here. Did not resurrect Bing either, and kept Firefox as the default browser.
Generally painless for me, but I got lucky.
Post by: bastones on Sat, 24 September 2016, 19:04:21
New Skype update sucks major ****.
No volume controls at all, it doesn't even appear in the system equaliser section, and in group conversations it defaults to the last message and not the last unread message. Also the preview thing you could close once keeps appearing every time you click on a new window.
Why did they think this was a good idea?
Unfortunately Skype has been a pile of crap for a while. It's absolute ****, thanks to Microsoft.
Post by: katushkin on Sun, 25 September 2016, 07:08:46
Oh hey, Microsoft Update. Thanks for Enabling Cortana, reinstalling OneDrive, and reinstalling Skype. You're the best Microsoft :confused:
One Drive is actually really good if you have other devices that use it. On my Windows phone, pictures would appear almost instantaneously on my PC when I took them on my phone.
I have discovered that you can still use the old skype rather than the integrated one. Just make sure you open actual skype before you get a call or it will resort to the integrated version.
Post by: Fire Brand on Sun, 25 September 2016, 08:05:15
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 30 September 2016, 06:36:49
Are you referring to the Anniversary Update 1607?
It actually kept Cortana disabled for me.
Same here. Did not resurrect Bing either, and kept Firefox as the default browser.
Generally painless for me, but I got lucky.
I've moved away from Windows at work to a Mac - I got lucky too :p
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 30 September 2016, 17:11:02
Tried powercfg -lastwake tried wake reason tried wake timers, sleep timers, what can wake my machine, turned them all off. Still does it. It ****ing annoys me.
Post by: xtrafrood on Fri, 30 September 2016, 18:27:08
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 25 October 2016, 06:52:28
I really need some advice here... I don't want Win10. I'd rather not have nightmares.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 25 October 2016, 07:23:18
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 25 October 2016, 07:30:50
Search for Leslieann's replies. She has commented on this several times and given good advice.
Thanks! Hopefully I can enjoy some games without MS keylogging all I do.
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 25 October 2016, 07:43:44
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 25 October 2016, 08:06:39
I gave up on using Wine with Linux and went ahead and installed Windows 10 alongside Linux Mint. I've read a lot of forum posts that say install Windows 10 first but the process was relatively painless. Some partition resizing. Some partition juggling. Gparted Live was an immense help. I'm a visual person, sometimes I make mistakes when I'm gooey-less.
Aren't you offset by the telemetry / auto-updating?
Post by: xtrafrood on Tue, 25 October 2016, 08:30:37
I gave up on using Wine with Linux and went ahead and installed Windows 10 alongside Linux Mint. I've read a lot of forum posts that say install Windows 10 first but the process was relatively painless. Some partition resizing. Some partition juggling. Gparted Live was an immense help. I'm a visual person, sometimes I make mistakes when I'm gooey-less.
Aren't you offset by the telemetry / auto-updating?
Well, I only use it for gaming and Fusion 360 so I can give myself a small window of time for updates. I'd rather use Linux Mint as my daily driver for seamless operation that I can count on. If I was to put on some big boy doodling pants in the future I don't know what i'll do.
Post by: xtrafrood on Thu, 06 April 2017, 18:14:02
Infoworld - Microsoft finally reveals what data Windows 10 collects from your PC (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3187600/microsoft-windows/microsoft-finally-reveals-what-data-windows-10-collects-from-your-pc.html#tk.rss_news)
Sum it up a bit..
Quote
There are two levels of diagnostic data: basic (https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields) and full (https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/windows-diagnostic-data).
Some of the data collection is from browsing habits. Surprise surprise.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 12 April 2017, 14:30:57
A lot of you probably know what data is collected from Windows 10 but for those that don't that information was recently released.
Infoworld - Microsoft finally reveals what data Windows 10 collects from your PC (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3187600/microsoft-windows/microsoft-finally-reveals-what-data-windows-10-collects-from-your-pc.html#tk.rss_news)
Sum it up a bit..QuoteThere are two levels of diagnostic data: basic (https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields) and full (https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/windows-diagnostic-data).
Some of the data collection is from browsing habits. Surprise surprise.
Wow so umm yeah....pretty much everything when using full mode.
A few that stick out..cursor position...how much of a book you've read....url of a video if there is an error....
I find it hard to believe aggregating all of that data doesn't cause a huge performance hit (or maybe it does?).
I have noticed when my laptop sits idle the processor peaks and the fans kick on so its doing something even though it shouldn't be. ???
I may roll it back to win7, I like win10 fine (even though its creepy) but can't get the previous OS upgrade to actually update, it downloads, tries to install, then loops.
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 12 April 2017, 14:43:58
Post by: Tally810 on Wed, 12 April 2017, 14:47:57
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Post by: xtrafrood on Wed, 12 April 2017, 15:02:06
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 April 2017, 22:59:49
A lot of you probably know what data is collected from Windows 10 but for those that don't that information was recently released.
Infoworld - Microsoft finally reveals what data Windows 10 collects from your PC (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3187600/microsoft-windows/microsoft-finally-reveals-what-data-windows-10-collects-from-your-pc.html#tk.rss_news)
Sum it up a bit..QuoteThere are two levels of diagnostic data: basic (https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields) and full (https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/windows-diagnostic-data).
Some of the data collection is from browsing habits. Surprise surprise.
Wow so umm yeah....pretty much everything when using full mode.
A few that stick out..cursor position...how much of a book you've read....url of a video if there is an error....
I find it hard to believe aggregating all of that data doesn't cause a huge performance hit (or maybe it does?).
I have noticed when my laptop sits idle the processor peaks and the fans kick on so its doing something even though it shouldn't be. ???
I may roll it back to win7, I like win10 fine (even though its creepy) but can't get the previous OS upgrade to actually update, it downloads, tries to install, then loops.
you need an old build of win 7 because the new one comes with the same telemetry package like the NEW windows 10..
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 13 April 2017, 02:40:39
you need an old build of win 7 because the new one comes with the same telemetry package like the NEW windows 10..
That is in fact the absolute LAST version of Windows worth owning and using on any PC hardware.
Love Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit, the ONLY Redmond creation worth owning. Everything after that, is pure excrement on every level :thumb: .
Post by: Leslieann on Thu, 13 April 2017, 02:55:03
Newer versions you can still simply uninstall the patches, but it's a pretty extensive list (there are batch files to automate this), provided it's before the massive rollup and update changes and remember, it's never as clean to remove than to have never been installed in the first place.
Also something to keep in mind on newer updates on Win7, 8, 8.1 and 10.
MS has been really sh*tty about not admitting to what is in the patches, and now they have resorted to not only altering the registry entries related to telemetry but also hard coding in the system so you can't stop it with registry hacks alone. This has all been done in the Creators update, no word on how back ported all of this is, but considering how far MS is pushing this, I wouldn't be surprised if they back port them and even list them as security updates.
Oh, and these "mistaken" rollback to default settings on Win10 updates, are not accidents, they want you to just give up and use Edge instead of fighting it. MS puts a lot of effort into making sure this doesn't happen and it certainly wouldn't accidentally happen multiple times in a row. Same when they "accidentally" installed Win10 without permission.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sat, 15 April 2017, 17:06:31
Ubuntu Gnome is a thing. And it will be an even better thing in 2018.. just sayin'
XFCE all the way baby. Just sayin'.
Post by: xtrafrood on Sun, 16 April 2017, 02:29:15
Ubuntu Gnome is a thing. And it will be an even better thing in 2018.. just sayin'
XFCE all the way baby. Just sayin'.
I'd take XFCE over Gnome for 17.04. My system is fine with Tumbleweed Gnome VM but it did not like Ubuntu Gnome 17.04 VM :(
Creators edition introduces un-obfuscatable telemetry. But hey, Cortana will now ask you annoying questions when you boot into the DE. Win, Win. I'm seriously considering a jump to Apple for my big box software needs.
Post by: iLLucionist on Sun, 16 April 2017, 05:15:08
Ubuntu Gnome is a thing. And it will be an even better thing in 2018.. just sayin'
XFCE all the way baby. Just sayin'.
I'd take XFCE over Gnome for 17.04. My system is fine with Tumbleweed Gnome VM but it did not like Ubuntu Gnome 17.04 VM :(
Creators edition introduces un-obfuscatable telemetry. But hey, Cortana will now ask you annoying questions when you boot into the DE. Win, Win. I'm seriously considering a jump to Apple for my big box software needs.
Wait... what? What happened?
I'm about to pull the trigger on the Lenovo X1 Carbon 2017 (i5-7300U, 16GB mem, 1 TB NVME SSD).. but it comes with creators or signature edition Win10. I thought the OS was reasonably OK and fast... but they upped on telemetry?
As I use it mainly to do work (MS Office, Latex, SPSS, R, Python, MPlus), I thought I use Win10 for work and do the downloading and semilegal stuff on a dual-boot linux to escape telemetry and make a linked partition to save the crap to, as I won't be downloading constantly.
BUUUT... I thought of something... I guess most people will now take the "F**K MS WIN10 --> Linux"-route. How long will it take before MS injects telemetry in a rootkit / bios and even running linux they will log your keystrokes etc? I mean.. UEFI / secureboot was also their idea to lock people out of installing anything other than Microshaft windblows.
Post by: Leslieann on Sun, 16 April 2017, 17:24:51
https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields
If I were buying a new laptop, I'd be reloading it as soon as I got home.
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 17 April 2017, 05:49:29
Here is the complete list of what it collects. Keep in mind 90% of this is what BASIC collects, the last 10% is what FULL collects.
https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields
If I were buying a new laptop, I'd be reloading it as soon as I got home.
Hmmm by the looks of it Windows collect SO much low-level info that it would be possible to run your processes from their servers almost, replicate your running instance of the OS and its apps. Man, this goes far. Like "battery level"? Whether you changed hardware? Whether you changed BIOS settings? wtf
Post by: SBJ on Mon, 17 April 2017, 05:52:59
Yeah it's total wtf, and if it wasn't for the fact that I played video games on my Windows machine I wouldn't have one M$ machine in my house. **** that noise.Here is the complete list of what it collects. Keep in mind 90% of this is what BASIC collects, the last 10% is what FULL collects.
https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields
If I were buying a new laptop, I'd be reloading it as soon as I got home.
Hmmm by the looks of it Windows collect SO much low-level info that it would be possible to run your processes from their servers almost, replicate your running instance of the OS and its apps. Man, this goes far. Like "battery level"? Whether you changed hardware? Whether you changed BIOS settings? wtf
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 17 April 2017, 06:22:22
It works in ~25-30 second intervals then freezes for 5-10 seconds then works.... :confused:
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 17 April 2017, 06:32:38
My main windows 10 PC after it updated this weekend is almost unusable to browse the web.
It works in ~25-30 second intervals then freezes for 5-10 seconds then works.... :confused:
I would never touch Win again (except for gaming) if it weren't for the fact I REALLY NEED MS Office for work (and SPSS only runs semi-decent on win, it drags on os x and linux). Oh and lightroom, illustrator, and photoshop. There are no really good substitutes for those in linux still. Such a shame. AND DON'T TELL ME INKSCAPE AND GIMP.
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 17 April 2017, 17:24:32
Wine has actually made some major leaps recently, so you may want to try.My main windows 10 PC after it updated this weekend is almost unusable to browse the web.
It works in ~25-30 second intervals then freezes for 5-10 seconds then works.... :confused:
I would never touch Win again (except for gaming) if it weren't for the fact I REALLY NEED MS Office for work (and SPSS only runs semi-decent on win, it drags on os x and linux). Oh and lightroom, illustrator, and photoshop. There are no really good substitutes for those in linux still. Such a shame. AND DON'T TELL ME INKSCAPE AND GIMP.
Lightroom, Photoshop and Illustrator run just fine through Wine or (even easier) PlayOnLinux, I can vouch for the latter two (I'm with you regarding GIMP!).
Office, is kind of iffy, depending on version and exact program, but in general it seems to work just fine.
SPSS, some versions seem to run great, others, no so great, however there is an open source replacement called PSPP. Note, I don't know anything about either of these programs, it just came up when I checked for SPSS.
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 17 April 2017, 17:29:02
Wine has actually made some major leaps recently, so you may want to try.My main windows 10 PC after it updated this weekend is almost unusable to browse the web.
It works in ~25-30 second intervals then freezes for 5-10 seconds then works.... :confused:
I would never touch Win again (except for gaming) if it weren't for the fact I REALLY NEED MS Office for work (and SPSS only runs semi-decent on win, it drags on os x and linux). Oh and lightroom, illustrator, and photoshop. There are no really good substitutes for those in linux still. Such a shame. AND DON'T TELL ME INKSCAPE AND GIMP.
Lightroom, Photoshop and Illustrator run just fine through Wine or (even easier) PlayOnLinux, I can vouch for the latter two (I'm with you regarding GIMP!).
Office, is kind of iffy, depending on version and exact program, but in general it seems to work just fine.
SPSS, some versions seem to run great, others, no so great, however there is an open source replacement called PSPP. Note, I don't know anything about either of these programs, it just came up when I checked for SPSS.
Thanks! Now this is all great on a workstation, so I should try it out on my ubuntu VM first.
However, how taxing is wine on battery life? Would running office / adobe over wine significantly reduce my battery life? Coz if not we have a winner here.
I'm wondering whether the next version of Office will check for telemetry code in the OS and if not found crashes or errors. So that wine has to implement or fake "telemetry".
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 April 2017, 17:29:40
Wine has actually made some major leaps recently, so you may want to try.My main windows 10 PC after it updated this weekend is almost unusable to browse the web.
It works in ~25-30 second intervals then freezes for 5-10 seconds then works.... :confused:
I would never touch Win again (except for gaming) if it weren't for the fact I REALLY NEED MS Office for work (and SPSS only runs semi-decent on win, it drags on os x and linux). Oh and lightroom, illustrator, and photoshop. There are no really good substitutes for those in linux still. Such a shame. AND DON'T TELL ME INKSCAPE AND GIMP.
Lightroom, Photoshop and Illustrator run just fine through Wine or (even easier) PlayOnLinux, I can vouch for the latter two (I'm with you regarding GIMP!).
Office, is kind of iffy, depending on version and exact program, but in general it seems to work just fine.
SPSS, some versions seem to run great, others, no so great, however there is an open source replacement called PSPP. Note, I don't know anything about either of these programs, it just came up when I checked for SPSS.
Thanks! Now this is all great on a workstation, so I should try it out on my ubuntu VM first.
However, how taxing is wine on battery life? Would running office / adobe over wine significantly reduce my battery life? Coz if not we have a winner here.
I'm wondering whether the next version of Office will check for telemetry code in the OS and if not found crashes or errors. So that wine has to implement or fake "telemetry".
Spss ? what are you n00bs.. Stata is where it's @
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 17 April 2017, 17:32:17
Wine has actually made some major leaps recently, so you may want to try.My main windows 10 PC after it updated this weekend is almost unusable to browse the web.
It works in ~25-30 second intervals then freezes for 5-10 seconds then works.... :confused:
I would never touch Win again (except for gaming) if it weren't for the fact I REALLY NEED MS Office for work (and SPSS only runs semi-decent on win, it drags on os x and linux). Oh and lightroom, illustrator, and photoshop. There are no really good substitutes for those in linux still. Such a shame. AND DON'T TELL ME INKSCAPE AND GIMP.
Lightroom, Photoshop and Illustrator run just fine through Wine or (even easier) PlayOnLinux, I can vouch for the latter two (I'm with you regarding GIMP!).
Office, is kind of iffy, depending on version and exact program, but in general it seems to work just fine.
SPSS, some versions seem to run great, others, no so great, however there is an open source replacement called PSPP. Note, I don't know anything about either of these programs, it just came up when I checked for SPSS.
Thanks! Now this is all great on a workstation, so I should try it out on my ubuntu VM first.
However, how taxing is wine on battery life? Would running office / adobe over wine significantly reduce my battery life? Coz if not we have a winner here.
I'm wondering whether the next version of Office will check for telemetry code in the OS and if not found crashes or errors. So that wine has to implement or fake "telemetry".
Spss ? what are you n00bs.. Stata is where it's @
Can't. Tried to switch to R as well, no issue for me, being a real programmer. But colleagues don't understand it. They can barely understand SPSS syntax, let alone a "real" programming environment like Stata or Mathematica.
I once had to run a ton of exploratory analyses on a dataset. I switched to python to automate it. Was less work in the end, just iterate over all possible combinations of IV, moderator/mediator, DV, etc. run regressions automatically. I just could not explain it to colleagues. Perhaps that's my fault, I don't know.
SPSS is the currency in my business, as is Word.
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 17 April 2017, 18:26:50
Thanks! Now this is all great on a workstation, so I should try it out on my ubuntu VM first.
However, how taxing is wine on battery life? Would running office / adobe over wine significantly reduce my battery life? Coz if not we have a winner here.
I'm wondering whether the next version of Office will check for telemetry code in the OS and if not found crashes or errors. So that wine has to implement or fake "telemetry".
You're welcome.
Office 16 and 365 pretty much rolls right into Win10 and telemetry which is why they push it so hard. In fact if you install Office 2013 one Win10, Windows ignores that you installed it and keeps trying to push newer versions on you. Instead of checking for telemetry, it's more likely they will "accidentally" break support for older versions prior to the latest. They promise support for Office for x number of years, they never promise forward compatibility beyond what was on the box.
The other thing they could do is death by 1000 cuts, start slowly breaking older versions a little at a time, pushing people to finally bite the bullet and update. Odds are that will happen anyway as many people using Office have this idea that they always have to be current.
I don't know about WINE in regards to battery, however, it shouldn't impact it as WINE isn't emulating Windows, it's running Windows as as native apps.
What you will want to do though is tune your power management. Windows throttles processors to 50% when on battery, whereas Linux doesn't by default (as far as I can tell). Installing Intel Pstate and TLP, then using TLP to throttle the processor to 50% while on battery will get your battery life back close to what it got while on Windows.
Post by: digi on Mon, 17 April 2017, 18:29:56
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 17 April 2017, 18:33:00
Thanks! Now this is all great on a workstation, so I should try it out on my ubuntu VM first.
However, how taxing is wine on battery life? Would running office / adobe over wine significantly reduce my battery life? Coz if not we have a winner here.
I'm wondering whether the next version of Office will check for telemetry code in the OS and if not found crashes or errors. So that wine has to implement or fake "telemetry".
You're welcome.
Office 16 and 365 pretty much rolls right into Win10 and telemetry which is why they push it so hard. In fact if you install Office 2013 one Win10, Windows ignores that you installed it and keeps trying to push newer versions on you. Instead of checking for telemetry, it's more likely they will "accidentally" break support for older versions prior to the latest. They promise support for Office for x number of years, they never promise forward compatibility beyond what was on the box.
The other thing they could do is death by 1000 cuts, start slowly breaking older versions a little at a time, pushing people to finally bite the bullet and update. Odds are that will happen anyway as many people using Office have this idea that they always have to be current.
I don't know about WINE in regards to battery, however, it shouldn't impact it as WINE isn't emulating Windows, it's running Windows as as native apps.
What you will want to do though is tune your power management. Windows throttles processors to 50% when on battery, whereas Linux doesn't by default (as far as I can tell). Installing Intel Pstate and TLP, then using TLP to throttle the processor to 50% while on battery will get your battery life back close to what it got while on Windows.
Thanks, this is very useful info!
Post by: iLLucionist on Mon, 17 April 2017, 18:33:53
My recommendation is to stay with Windows 7 64 Bit!
Yes and no -- the f**kers backported telemetry to win 7 via updates. There was a certain date (google it) up to where there was not telemetry but after that date the updates also included the backported telemetry.
Post by: Leslieann on Mon, 17 April 2017, 18:39:42
July 2015 saw the first bits of telemetry in Win7 and 8 updates.My recommendation is to stay with Windows 7 64 Bit!
Yes and no -- the f**kers backported telemetry to win 7 via updates. There was a certain date (google it) up to where there was not telemetry but after that date the updates also included the backported telemetry.
There are lists of what updates you can and can't install to avoid it, however MS is putting an end to that as well with the new update system.
There are updated copies you can download with those bits removed, however you need to put your faith in some random person online (some are trustworthy). Legally these fall into a gray area.
Post by: digi on Mon, 17 April 2017, 19:08:49
July 2015 saw the first bits of telemetry in Win7 and 8 updates.My recommendation is to stay with Windows 7 64 Bit!
Yes and no -- the f**kers backported telemetry to win 7 via updates. There was a certain date (google it) up to where there was not telemetry but after that date the updates also included the backported telemetry.
There are lists of what updates you can and can't install to avoid it, however MS is putting an end to that as well with the new update system.
There are updated copies you can download with those bits removed, however you need to put your faith in some random person online (some are trustworthy). Legally these fall into a gray area.
well damn...they're gonna see all my Amazon purchases now.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 17 April 2017, 19:55:07
Post by: fanpeople on Mon, 17 April 2017, 19:57:31
I'm still using office 2007.
MY WORKPLACE IS USING THE 2003 version... OH WAIT WE JUST UPGRADED TO 2007
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 April 2017, 20:50:42
But I also haz 2007 because of docx.
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 18 April 2017, 03:26:38
July 2015 saw the first bits of telemetry in Win7 and 8 updates.My recommendation is to stay with Windows 7 64 Bit!
Yes and no -- the f**kers backported telemetry to win 7 via updates. There was a certain date (google it) up to where there was not telemetry but after that date the updates also included the backported telemetry.
There are lists of what updates you can and can't install to avoid it, however MS is putting an end to that as well with the new update system.
There are updated copies you can download with those bits removed, however you need to put your faith in some random person online (some are trustworthy). Legally these fall into a gray area.
well damn...they're gonna see all my Amazon purchases now.
I take it you probably don't just by books there hehehe
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 18 April 2017, 03:27:38
And it sucks. Font rendering is SO HEAVY. Painful on the eyes. Especially Times New Roman.
Post by: Leslieann on Tue, 18 April 2017, 16:08:17
We have 2010? Or is that 2007? The one before 2016 at least at the office.2013 was just before 2016.
And it sucks. Font rendering is SO HEAVY. Painful on the eyes. Especially Times New Roman.
3 year cycle.
2003 I think was the best variant, after that they messed the menus up and hid a lot of what I use.
Post by: iLLucionist on Tue, 18 April 2017, 16:11:32
We have 2010? Or is that 2007? The one before 2016 at least at the office.2013 was just before 2016.
And it sucks. Font rendering is SO HEAVY. Painful on the eyes. Especially Times New Roman.
3 year cycle.
2003 I think was the best variant, after that they messed the menus up and hid a lot of what I use.
I don't see much improvement after 2001 Platinum.
1997 was a bit too crashy with tables and layout constantly messed up with pictures (and I know how to format properly).
2001 was the sweet spot. The rest after was really just marketing.
Post by: digi on Tue, 18 April 2017, 16:13:30
July 2015 saw the first bits of telemetry in Win7 and 8 updates.My recommendation is to stay with Windows 7 64 Bit!
Yes and no -- the f**kers backported telemetry to win 7 via updates. There was a certain date (google it) up to where there was not telemetry but after that date the updates also included the backported telemetry.
There are lists of what updates you can and can't install to avoid it, however MS is putting an end to that as well with the new update system.
There are updated copies you can download with those bits removed, however you need to put your faith in some random person online (some are trustworthy). Legally these fall into a gray area.
well damn...they're gonna see all my Amazon purchases now.
I take it you probably don't just by books there hehehe
Noooo, I buy woks and wok burners too, vegetables so fresh with Amazon Fresh, I don't have to go anywhere!!! yess
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 18 April 2017, 17:11:33
Noooo, I buy woks and wok burners too, vegetables so fresh with Amazon Fresh, I don't have to go anywhere!!! yess
Careful digi, they can see ur amazon Alt-account too...... hahahahahahhaa. the one u use for all the naughty stuff..