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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ocdonkb on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:04:56

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ocdonkb on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:04:56

Not sure how I stumbled upon this site yesterday, but wasted a whole day reading here, and watching youtube videos... at the end, I knew I wouldn't be able to resist, so went ahead and ordered the FKBN87M/EB(87key, cherry brown-switch)

I'm a software engineer by trade so typing is kinda big deal. While reading this site, I literally lol'd many times - it's cool to finally find like-minded people, and that I wasn't totally insane going crazy on keyboards.

My kb experience(or lack thereof), mostly just rubber-dome/scissor: MS natural pro's, currently typing on an Enermax Aurora(scissor switch), I actually like it okay because the feeling is very close to my Thinkpad keyboard at home.

My Filco is intended for use at the office. I hope I made the right choice in the brown-switch, as a loud clicky board isn't an option in my shared-office environment.

I remember about five years ago, working with this old-timer, but kickass programmer, who used the HHKB. I used to laugh at his "weird" keyboard.... now it's come full circle :)

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: AndrewZorn on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:09:00

at least the decision was easy for you
and yeah my new brown 104key filco is not much louder than a rubber dome (clicker, musical almost, but not much louder) so you should be good

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:09:20

congratulations; and welcome, to the black hole of keyboards!

once sucked in, it's harrrd to get out :D

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:09:32

You made an excellent choice.
 
Welcome to GeekHack!

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:17:00

Quote from: ocdonkb;123486

My Filco is intended for use at the office. I hope I made the right choice in the brown-switch, as a loud clicky board isn't an option in my shared-office environment.

Welcome to Geekhack!
My Filco is the quietest in my collection. I tried it a few times at work, and felt like I had the quietest keyboard around.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: elbowglue on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:18:27

Nice - I am seriously contemplating this keyboard too, got one of the used Cherry USB POS boards from ebay for $45 shipped on the way to test out the Cherry Brown switch, although the 87 key filco is probably 50% smaller than my credit card reading keyboard coming in. (lol)  Make sure to post how you like it.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: texteur on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:51:09

Welcome ocdonkb !

I'm also new in this wonderful forum. The paradise for keyboard-addicts (I've stopped smoking -- I imagine that typing is less dangerous for health).

I've tried staks of keyboards, but... none with brown Cherry switches. Because of your post, I now have half a mind to test one of those Filco FKBN104M/EB... At this very moment, I'm typing on a Majestouch Tactile Click "Otaku", which is greaaat. But I'm a freelancer, so I don't need a silent keyboard...

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ocdonkb on Tue, 06 October 2009, 15:53:55

Thanks for welcome's everyone.

Yeah, I'll be sure to update this thread again with my impressions of the Filco. Hopefully elitekeyboards.com ships it out today.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: AndrewZorn on Tue, 06 October 2009, 16:46:37

dip switches > nothing

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 06 October 2009, 16:51:41

Quote from: AndrewZorn;123526

dip switches > nothing

:lol:

that's what the engineers said

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 06 October 2009, 17:40:24

I love how Ripster always manages to find the most irrelevant reasons to dislike keyboards =P

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: AndrewZorn on Tue, 06 October 2009, 18:35:28

or perhaps after SPENDING $244 they can not afford much

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 06 October 2009, 18:45:11

Quote from: AndrewZorn;123557

or perhaps after SPENDING $244 they can not afford much

Better than a Maltron, Kinesis, or a DataHands.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 06 October 2009, 19:53:58

Why were they called DIP switches, anyway?

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 06 October 2009, 20:23:29

DIP stands for Dual Inline Package... the component has 2 rows of pins connecting it to the circuit board :)

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 06 October 2009, 20:28:20

Quote from: msiegel;123591

DIP stands for Dual Inline Package... the component has 2 rows of pins connecting it to the circuit board :)

I thought that was a memory term...whatever.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: msiegel on Tue, 06 October 2009, 20:37:43

Quote from: timw4mail;123594

I thought that was a memory term

certainly, DIPs have been very common for memory :)
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CAT24C44LI-ND

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 06 October 2009, 21:06:11

Quote from: ripster;123532

Maybe the marketing department specified it.

I have to agree that a key to press to select a keyboard layout would have seemed more sensible. But they didn't want to use up a valuable capacitative rubber dome key for such a purpose.

And the keyboard isn't programmed with DIP switches; you just set them once to select your desired layout, from a limited number of preset layouts, and forget about them. DIP switches are not really an unsuitable tool for that purpose.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Tue, 06 October 2009, 21:08:12

Quote from: ch_123;123542

I love how Ripster always manages to find the most irrelevant reasons to dislike keyboards =P

When I first a comment from ripster, I was asking myself why he had to say things like that. Then I realised that he was just poking fun. Typed message has a higher chance of being misunderstood because we don't see the body language nor hear the tone used.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 06 October 2009, 21:08:28

Quote from: timw4mail;123594

I thought that was a memory term...whatever.

Actually, that was the whole idea. Integrated circuits, like the famous 7400 series of TTL chips, came in dual-in-line packages, and these switch modules were designed so that they could fit in the *same kind of socket* as a normal integrated circuit - so that you could add little switches to your design without doing anything special.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 07 October 2009, 03:57:33

Quote from: ripster;123616

Not entirely just poking fun.   A high end board like the HHKB2 should be able to be programmable.

The specific layout is it's main selling point, iirc, it was designed for use with programs like Emacs. They're are plenty of programmable keyboards out there if you need one.

Besides, haven't we all established that the price is because of the Topre switches?

Quote

It requires software.  Maybe the Japanese are amateurs in software.  
Strange though, it says Happy Hacking Professional on it?!?!?!

I'd imagine that the target market for the HHKB is mainly comprised of people who will refuse to run some random software on their machine just so that their keyboard will work. That's the beauty of the DIP switches - they are completely platform independent, and make the electronics more simple inside without sacrificing any real functionality.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 07 October 2009, 07:47:40

The problem, Ripster, is that we are talking about the Happy Hacking Keyboard.  If you're hacking, it's more than likely not your own machine, and they may not have your programming software installed for your convenience.  That, and it's a lot faster to just flip a couple DIP switches than to fire up your rig and **** around with some software.  That would seem like over-engineering, IMO.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 07 October 2009, 09:08:33

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;123604

because we don't see the body language nor hear the tone used.

ripster, we need to see your body language.

> type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">[/youtube]

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: wellington1869 on Wed, 07 October 2009, 09:09:42

Quote from: ripster;123616

Not entirely just poking fun.   A high end board like the HHKB2 should be able to be programmable.

Show Image

(http://www.stoneedge.com/help/image567.jpg)

It requires software.  Maybe the Japanese are amateurs in software.  Strange though, it says Happy Hacking Professional on it?!?!?!

I gotta get myself a g81 7000 LUBUS.

I suppose it has black cherries? [update, never mind, looks like its MY linear membrane switches]

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:32:35

Quote from: wellington1869;123660

I gotta get myself a g81 7000 LUBUS.

I suppose it has black cherries? [update, never mind, looks like its MY linear membrane switches]

G81 is always MY, from what I understand

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 07 October 2009, 10:38:52

Quote from: timw4mail;123692

G81 is always MY, from what I understand

That is correct.  The G8x tells what line of switches the use.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ocdonkb on Wed, 07 October 2009, 14:33:12

So I received the FKBN87M/EB today.

First impressions. Very different key action to what I'm use to. Definitely. Very smooth and effortless typing. When the keys buttom out at the base, I feel it's a very smooth deceleration - as opposed to the mushy, almost cotton-ball-like feeling of my old MS Natural Pro rubber-dome's.

Sound level. Perfect. Doesn't bother my office mate at all. But still gives out a very satisfying soft "thud"(not sure what the right word is). I think I'm gonna like this "music".

Comfort level. This is my first mechanical kb, and I'm so used to the ergonomic MS split keyboards with huge palm rests. Do you guys use a seperate palm rest? This is what I'm thinking about doing.

The box came with a very cool looking red ESC key. What's the safest way to pull out my black ESC key? I don't have the custom "key puller" tool. I was gonna just use a pen or something, but want to cause the least amount damage, obviously.

Oh lastly, it's a great weighty keyboard. Its rubber feet keep it in place, no slide around or anything.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 07 October 2009, 14:44:12

you can try using two paperclips with a keyring. I wouldn't try it with pen or something.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 07 October 2009, 15:17:02

I've got a Cherry Brown Filco too. Maybe it's quiet in comparison to other keyboards that people own here, but if you've been using rubber domes and scissor switches, it'll still be a bump up on the decibel level, especially when you type fast.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 07 October 2009, 15:26:37

Quote from: hyperlinked;123761

I've got a Cherry Brown Filco too. Maybe it's quiet in comparison to other keyboards that people own here, but if you've been using rubber domes and scissor switches, it'll still be a bump up on the decibel level, especially when you type fast.

It depends on the keyboard.  Filcos have a little extra noise to them.  My Cherry G80-3000 with Cherry browns is almost silent.  It is certainly quieter than the Dell rubber dome keyboards we have around here.  The key caps, switch mounting and case materials all have something to do with the sound type and level a keyboard will have.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ocdonkb on Wed, 07 October 2009, 15:39:20

Quote from: itlnstln;123762

It depends on the keyboard.  Filcos have a little extra noise to them.  My Cherry G80-3000 with Cherry browns is almost silent.  It is certainly quieter than the Dell rubber dome keyboards we have around here.  The key caps, switch mounting and case materials all have something to do with the sound type and level a keyboard will have.

Yeah, compared to my old squeaky-all-over MS Natural Pro, this Filco cherry-brown really is about the same, noise wise.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: maxlugar on Wed, 07 October 2009, 16:48:22

Quote from: texteur;123499

Welcome ocdonkb !

I imagine that typing (i.e. collecting keyboards) is less dangerous for health).

No, not really...especially if you're married.

BTW, Blue Cherry MX switches are so much more fun then the Browns

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ocdonkb on Wed, 07 October 2009, 17:23:45

Quote from: maxlugar;123768

No, not really...especially if you're married.

heh, I'm never taking this Filco home. No idea how I'd justify a $130 keyboard to the wife.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 07 October 2009, 17:25:02

Quote from: ocdonkb;123769

heh, I'm never taking this Filco home. No idea how I'd justify a $130 keyboard to the wife.

don't ask, don't tell?

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: texteur on Wed, 07 October 2009, 18:25:14

Quote from: maxlugar;123768

No, not really...especially if you're married.

That's so true... With the time, I find no more valid justification for what I can call (in my case) an acute --pathological, compulsive-- behavior.

But I'm serene: keyboard-addict-cancer doesn't exist.

Title: Filco FKBN87M/EB ordered. Novice.
Post by: ocdonkb on Fri, 09 October 2009, 02:06:25

Another question here. I'm quite a sucker for the IBM/Lenovo Think-brand keyboard's blue Enter key:

Example:

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/40/6b/466a9833e7a0c4503d621110.L.jpg)

I checked elitekeyboards.com, the only thing they have are black blank keycaps. Do you guys know a place that might sell colored Filco replacement caps?