geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: KHAANNN on Sun, 26 July 2015, 16:57:31

Title: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Sun, 26 July 2015, 16:57:31
It seems all the GMK F/J's out there are scooped with the exception of Ivan's Color pack: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0490/7329/products/Dolch_Addon.JPG?v=1417083743 - which kind of beats the purpose with the marginal colors (at least for me)

I don't know whether I will get used to the scoops over time, I will certainly try, however in the meantime I will rather look for solutions (I hate scoops and find bumps tolerable, scoops make the keys feel clumsy)

I sent an email to GMK to buy bumped F/J's at MOQ - I don't know whether:
i) Is it possible?
ii) Will the cost be feasible? (I guess <$500 would be acceptable)
iii) How long will it take?
iv) Will the colors match the existing colors (I mean, when matched with existing keys, will it be possible to differentiate them, since they were molded on different batches - I'm guessing 99% they will match the existing keycaps, as I can't differentiate keycaps from different batches on room lighting conditions)

If I succeed in this quest, I plan to sell or give away the additional F/J's to those in need
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 26 July 2015, 17:35:20
Possible? For two keys, yes.
But seriously? There are very few people who prefer the hiking bars over scoops.
That combined with the fact that it's for one color way would make it very unpopular.
The colours will match though without aa problem. 
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Sun, 26 July 2015, 17:49:47
Possible? For two keys, yes.
But seriously? There are very few people who prefer the hiking bars over scoops.
That combined with the fact that it's for one color way would make it very unpopular.
The colours will match though without aa problem.

It's not really for profit or popularity, I simply prefer bumps much more and If it turns out to be possible, I'm willing to share

I see 3-4 people on every GB that asks for the bumps, I also failed to find additional bumped cyan F/J's from Ivan's GB, several people said they prefer those bumps to scoops :)

Also, the Dolch is probably the most popular GMK set out there, the colors go well with almost anything, I think having those bumped keys around would be soothing for many

How much do you think would it cost, can you estimate (i-iv) based on your experience?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: FrostyToast on Sun, 26 July 2015, 17:55:32
For so few keys I would guess 3 bucks a key.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 27 July 2015, 07:51:37
Unfortunately this is something that I really doubt would ever hit MOQ

I'm not sure if GMK would bother making such a small order either

You could always ask Bunny whether JTK could make them for you
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 27 July 2015, 07:57:19
I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. I like those bars. Scoops were an acquired thing for me and they're still not my favorite.

But I think the MOQ will probably mean that you'll be spending way more than $500. GMK doesn't really do small runs AFAIK.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 27 July 2015, 08:21:27
I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. I like those bars. Scoops were an acquired thing for me and they're still not my favorite.

But I think the MOQ will probably mean that you'll be spending way more than $500. GMK doesn't really do small runs AFAIK.

I can push $500 myself, if it turns out to be something like $750, I would probably start a mini GB or IC to find people to pitch in $25/$50 or something - If I could find 5 people at $50, it would reduce the cost to $500 again

GMK seems to reply to all emails, very slowly, but they seem to reply, I will let you guys know how it turns out
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 27 July 2015, 09:51:58
I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. I like those bars. Scoops were an acquired thing for me and they're still not my favorite.

But I think the MOQ will probably mean that you'll be spending way more than $500. GMK doesn't really do small runs AFAIK.

I can push $500 myself, if it turns out to be something like $750, I would probably start a mini GB or IC to find people to pitch in $25/$50 or something - If I could find 5 people at $50, it would reduce the cost to $500 again

GMK seems to reply to all emails, very slowly, but they seem to reply, I will let you guys know how it turns out

Which sets do you plan on running them for?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:22:14
I'm interested in seeing how this turns out. I like those bars. Scoops were an acquired thing for me and they're still not my favorite.

But I think the MOQ will probably mean that you'll be spending way more than $500. GMK doesn't really do small runs AFAIK.

I can push $500 myself, if it turns out to be something like $750, I would probably start a mini GB or IC to find people to pitch in $25/$50 or something - If I could find 5 people at $50, it would reduce the cost to $500 again

GMK seems to reply to all emails, very slowly, but they seem to reply, I will let you guys know how it turns out

Which sets do you plan on running them for?

Only Dolch, since it's available both in new and old form - and because I find the Dolch alphas to be the most proven alphas - I don't have the skills or resources to run a GB, so I think it's simple to stick to the Dolch

I received a swift reply from GMK, asked about further details and options, if it works out, I will probably seek community leaders in US/UK(EU) to distribute the additional keys

(Worst case scenario, it seems ~500 euros for 250 packs - I hope they will also aid in flexing their MOQ and similar limitations, since the purpose of this order is to extend the usability of existing keysets)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:27:46
Did you ask them for the scoop + line? Or is it the same height as the adjacent G and H keys with the bar? Sorry, it's hard to tell from the picture.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:29:56
Did you ask them for the scoop + line? Or is it the same height as the adjacent G and H keys with the bar? Sorry, it's hard to tell from the picture.

It is the same height as the G and H keys just with the bar.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:30:19
****. I was really hoping it was scoop + bar.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:33:18
****. I was really hoping it was scoop + bar.

I mean I could be wrong but if I remember correctly the color pack has the bar and the key is the same profile as G and H.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:35:02
Did you ask them for the scoop + line? Or is it the same height as the adjacent G and H keys with the bar? Sorry, it's hard to tell from the picture.

I asked them to get 65 pcs flat F's, 65pcs flat J's, 65pcs bumped F's and 65pc's bumped J's (bump == line as I interpret things, the regular underlined keycaps, They mentioned these are possible at their reply, there was no mention of a scoop+line, doesn't mean it doesn't exist tho, but I don't think it does)

Tho, theoretically, dot'ed keys should be possible, but I don't think anyone wants those :)

If the MOQ isn't flexible, it means 500 euros for 250 bumped F/J's - still not bad
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Oobly on Tue, 28 July 2015, 08:41:58
(http://41.media.tumblr.com/98e2792d6184bdf82b8941e1a4e30ac4/tumblr_inline_nquvhlw3k31rf5b85_500.jpg)

Ivan's Round 3 PBT Black on Black has both:
(http://i.imgur.com/i6ZhlrS.jpg)

Feels awesome.

Not sure about his PBT Dark Round 2, though.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 28 July 2015, 08:45:45
That's not GMK though.  GMK may not have the tooling to do so.


Personally, I think unadulterated scoops are the best.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 28 July 2015, 08:46:38
Yup, like oobly suggested, I'd love scoops with the line.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 28 July 2015, 09:00:20
I admire your dedication here.  I don't think I've ever even considered spending $500+ for two keycaps.  :O

It's certainly possible to do this, but you'll be left with an awful lot of these in the end.  It may be worth starting an IC and trying to get others to buy in with you.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 28 July 2015, 09:28:09
I admire your dedication here.  I don't think I've ever even considered spending $500+ for two keycaps.  :O

It's certainly possible to do this, but you'll be left with an awful lot of these in the end.  It may be worth starting an IC and trying to get others to buy in with you.

Thanks :)

Back when I didn't appreciate key sculpturing and profile, I was using DSA Dolch'es, I really enjoy the colorway, now that I switched to GMK Dolch'es, I feel like I can spend a lifetime with them, so on that end, getting the right F/J's makes sense - I think it should amortise itself fast - I would rather make the payment myself and run a GB later-on to see if anyone else is interested in sharing the costs

I already have 3 GMK Dolch sets, if this F/J thing works out, I will probably hoard more GMK Dolch alphas and move on, combining them with different modifiers in the long run

By the way, a while ago, I think I also convinced Originative to add bumped F/J's to their next extension packs, however, I would rather not take any chances at this point and get them manufactured as soon as possible (On the other hand they might be worth the wait if they also include the 1.75 Control in the original colorway and the 1.25 Blanks)

Scoops should be nice for home-row typists, but for crude typists like me, I think bump or flat is the best as they provide the optimal keypress experience - also they look better aesthetically, imo

(On the other hand, human brain gets used to pretty much anything, so some time with scoops will likely solve the problem for me, but I would rather manually solve it If I can)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: ATXTider on Tue, 28 July 2015, 09:43:44
I'd take a few off your hands, my fingers like bumps/bars/dots/nubs way better than scoops.

Full Disclosure:  Typed on GMK Dolch with scoops.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 28 July 2015, 10:10:08
I'd take a few off your hands, my fingers like bumps/bars/dots/nubs way better than scoops.

Full Disclosure:  Typed on GMK Dolch with scoops.

Good to hear, I will let you know
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 28 July 2015, 18:45:13
One idea I had that might make it a bit more feasible is if you paired it up with some GMK keys that everyone else wants

You could design a colour pack for another set or for Dolch, maybe some new Esc keys or blank windowed R1s?

Everyone likes novelty GMKs! :D
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 28 July 2015, 19:50:01
One idea I had that might make it a bit more feasible is if you paired it up with some GMK keys that everyone else wants

You could design a colour pack for another set or for Dolch, maybe some new Esc keys or blank windowed R1s?

Everyone likes novelty GMKs! :D

:D :D

Sounds like you want to piggyback some of the keys you've been wanting :)

Joke aside, It's only feasible for me as I'm able to keep the costs relatively low with 2 keys, each new key likely adds 250euros (I now fully understand why my each IC/GB suggestion is denied :)
I don't have the energy or time to run a proper GB

On the other hand, I'm very tempted, but thanks to GB runners, GB resellers, Originative, Elite Keyboards, GMK traders, GB second-hand sellers, there is not too much need for GMK special keys, SP is supposed to be the agile keycap manufacturer, with no MOQ and stuff, yet there are more GMK special keys out there (thankfully)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 28 July 2015, 20:20:20
One idea I had that might make it a bit more feasible is if you paired it up with some GMK keys that everyone else wants

You could design a colour pack for another set or for Dolch, maybe some new Esc keys or blank windowed R1s?

Everyone likes novelty GMKs! :D

:D :D

Sounds like you want to piggyback some of the keys you've been wanting :)

Joke aside, It's only feasible for me as I'm able to keep the costs relatively low with 2 keys, each new key likely adds 250euros (I now fully understand why my each IC/GB suggestion is denied :)
I don't have the energy or time to run a proper GB

On the other hand, I'm very tempted, but thanks to GB runners, GB resellers, Originative, Elite Keyboards, GMK traders, GB second-hand sellers, there is not too much need for GMK special keys, SP is supposed to be the agile keycap manufacturer, with no MOQ and stuff, yet there are more GMK special keys out there (thankfully)

I was hoping that the pricing was more scalable with GMK.... seems like aren't :(

Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 28 July 2015, 20:25:10
I was hoping that the pricing was more scalable with GMK.... seems like aren't :(

Pricing should be scalable, but I don't know how scalable, no one replies quote emails with a "complete pricing logic/method" - you generally have to pull every little piece of information out (mostly my experience with SP)

Even if it's scalable, I don't think it would scale much with a couple of special keys, it could even scale upwards, as those special keys will likely have different colors (pure speculation, but logical)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 28 July 2015, 20:35:31
I was hoping that the pricing was more scalable with GMK.... seems like aren't :(

Pricing should be scalable, but I don't know how scalable, no one replies quote emails with a "complete pricing logic/method" - you generally have to pull every little piece of information out (mostly my experience with SP)

Even if it's scalable, I don't think it would scale much with a couple of special keys, it could even scale upwards, as those special keys will likely have different colors (pure speculation, but logical)

Good point - it would be interesting to get a bit more insight into how exactly the quoting process works. We could probably figure it out quite easily if the GB runners mentioned how it worked for them.

I wonder how the plastic colour impacts the price, number of keys and so forth
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Sun, 02 August 2015, 18:51:32
I think I got used to the scoops like most of the GMK users by the way :-X

I might even become anti-bump at one point :)

Joke aside, it's hard to make changes like these, some recent GMK sets like Miami, Sky Dolch are also rolling with bump-only alphas, I think every GMK set should include both the bumps and scoops, since I kind of committed to getting used to the scoops now, I don't like the idea of not being able to use these sets that only launch with bumps (use them in combination with other existing keys, use them on keyboards that I intend to rotate/use) - it's too much of a change/hit for the muscle memories
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 03 August 2015, 00:27:47
I think I got used to the scoops like most of the GMK users by the way :-X

I might even become anti-bump at one point :)

Joke aside, it's hard to make changes like these, some recent GMK sets like Miami, Sky Dolch are also rolling with bump-only alphas, I think every GMK set should include both the bumps and scoops, since I kind of committed to getting used to the scoops now, I don't like the idea of not being able to use these sets that only launch with bumps (use them in combination with other existing keys, use them on keyboards that I intend to rotate/use) - it's too much of a change/hit for the muscle memories

Argh I forgot that Miami Nights was nibs not scoops :(

I found with the deep dish keys on my Hack'd by Geeks set that I actually prefer the subtlety of a curve over a nib

I still think that scoops are the way to go and look way better
The money can really be spent better in other places
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 03 August 2015, 00:53:29
My contact at GMK seems to be on a 2 week vacation now, even if I contact someone else, it will likely take months for them to be produced, comparatively getting used to scoops was faster, otherwise paying 250 euros is simpler than overriding muscle memories

I also used the scoops of the Hack's by Geeks set before giving it to my brother, scoops look pretty good on that set

On the other hand, If I had the option with GMK's, I would probably use flats myself, as I don't utilise home-row typing and don't need homing in general, but not obsessing over minor stuff like a curvature is what I decided to do, in time I'm sure the brain will get fully used to the scoops and they will become native as the bumps did over the years (I don't recall ever paying attention to the bumps for example)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 03 August 2015, 00:55:57
My contact at GMK seems to be on a 2 week vacation now, even if I contact someone else, it will likely take months for them to be produced, comparatively getting used to scoops was faster, otherwise paying 250 euros is simpler than overriding muscle memories

I also used the scoops of the Hack's by Geeks set before giving it to my brother, scoops look pretty good on that set

On the other hand, If I had the option with GMK's, I would probably use flats myself, as I don't utilise home-row typing and don't need homing in general, but not obsessing over minor stuff like a curvature is what I decided to do, in time I'm sure the brain will get fully used to the scoops and they will become native as the bumps did over the years (I don't recall ever paying attention to the bumps for example)

Ahh fair enough - I'm a pretty big home row typist

Is it only 250 euros? that's pretty damn good
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 03 August 2015, 01:11:00
500* sorry :)

There is also the possibility of a Uniqey launch, I don't know how much their keyboards will be, but since there were mentions of configurability, buying a keyboard with some flat/bumped F/J's makes some sense too

So, my conclusion was, one way or another I'm going to wait months, I might as well explore some options and see how it goes

I even considered some Imsto/BSP PBT's for alphas, but they didn't look too good from the photos, the BSP ones also seem to be dotted, I would rather have the scoops

One other possibility is JTKeycaps being more agile, but it doesn't seem that way yet, deducting from the lack of blanks from their debut
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Polymer on Mon, 03 August 2015, 06:28:44
If you ever get this going, I'd be interested. 

I don't mind scoops but I prefer the bars....the scoops just grab my fingers a bit and it isn't as enjoyable..plus it is different from all the rest of the keycaps I have....

I'm a bit surprised there aren't GBs with these as extras...I know some want it to go towards extra things but I just think it covers quite a good portion of people that would just prefer bars..
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Karura on Tue, 04 August 2015, 15:58:03
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

GMK mockups have been showing up with no-scoops + line/bump for the past few months now. It is an error, and not representative of the keyset.

There has currently been zero sets from GMK that has been produced with scoops + line.

Just wanted to clear this up :)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 04 August 2015, 21:51:24
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

GMK mockups have been showing up with no-scoops + line/bump for the past few months now. It is an error, and not representative of the keyset.

There has currently been zero sets from GMK that has been produced with scoops + line.

Just wanted to clear this up :)

Thanks for clearing that up Karura :)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: platypus on Tue, 04 August 2015, 22:04:56
I prefer scoops/deepdish>dot>bar, but this is probably hugely subjective.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 06 August 2015, 04:16:19
It's flat>lines>>>scoops>scoops+line for me - as I use 2 fingers for alphas (80wpm upper limit but the method satisfies me)

I decided to go forward with my 250 lined F/J's idea, I considered flats since I personally like flats more, but I'm probably not going to be selfish and order lined F/J's instead, as I don't seem to mind them, also at 250 keycaps, I can probably sand 80 pairs or something to create a satisfying flat pair :)

As I observe from the SKIDATA+ IC too, GMK seems crammed at the moment, probably a summer thing, but I intend to finalise this asap, scoops are tolerable, but not optimal (at least for me)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: jd29 on Wed, 12 August 2015, 03:02:28
Not to impose, but if you can do different colors without upping the price, I (and seemingly a few others) would love to get our hands on some in classic beige. That's a lot of caps to get rid of for just one color scheme, if the bar is as unpopular as it seems.

This is some commitment to perfect your keyboard, but relatively it's not all that crazy if you think about it... you're getting hundreds of caps, where an artisan cap collecter might only get two  :D
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 12 August 2015, 03:52:14
Not to impose, but if you can do different colors without upping the price, I (and seemingly a few others) would love to get our hands on some in classic beige. That's a lot of caps to get rid of for just one color scheme, if the bar is as unpopular as it seems.

This is some commitment to perfect your keyboard, but relatively it's not all that crazy if you think about it... you're getting hundreds of caps, where an artisan cap collecter might only get two  :D

I also think it's a worthy investment, I have 3 decent + 1 side-printed Dolch set, so I kind of went all in on Dolch alphas, might get 1 more for the future

Not upping the price isn't possible, so adding the Beige would double the price, I was excited about the Beige GB too, but I decided to give it up and simplify things for myself, so it's dolch4life now

I know this won't make sense to a lot of people, but I'm currently going to order Flat F + Flat J + alpha-coloured-icon-only Tab's (aesthetical) - the reasoning is that I'm not a home-row typists, and the dash of GMK is a very strong one, I really like some PBT sets that have a very mellow dash, but GMK dashes are extreme compared to those - I considered getting dashed F/J's and sanding them a bit, but just getting flats make more sense - I decided to be selfish as I'm very tired and I don't want to attempt the sanding I mentioned, I just want to get my flats and move on

If GMK was flexible and if they also saw that producing these keys at 50/100 MOQ would extend the usability/reach of their sets and help them too, I would love to turn this into an alternative homing pack with flat's, dashes in popular color schemes, but currently that's probably not going to happen, as the 250MOQ is firm (we could do a high-stakes GB where N-people put ~200 euros each for one alpha and receive 250/N of each - but I don't think there are 6-8 people around that would be interested in such a scheme)

I'm not in a rush tho, it will likely take 3-4 months for these to be produced anyway, the main GMK contact is also on a vacation, I'm taking this time to make up my mind before sending an email to the backup contact
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 12 August 2015, 03:55:30
Sorry if it seems a trollish answer but Im serious.

Couldn't you somehow add your homing bar on an existing scooped caps?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 12 August 2015, 04:10:12

Interested in dolch and beige with a raised "homing bar" near the bottom edge on the 'F' and 'J' keys (no fear of being too clear :-))

 
Sorry if it seems a trollish answer but Im serious.

Couldn't you somehow add your homing bar on an existing scooped caps?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 09 September 2015, 04:55:34
Finally sealed the deal with GMK, yey :)

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: joey on Wed, 09 September 2015, 05:11:26
So how many are you buying?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 09 September 2015, 05:20:44
So how many are you buying?

250 each, MOQ is pretty strict

I would chicken out from the experimental alpha-colored Tab, it's not a must and I managed to acquire a lot of alternative GMK Tab's, yet the ordering process is a bit slow, I didn't want to delay things further and just went ahead

Currently using the alphas and Tab of this set: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=59 - it's an extremely nice placeholder, yet the contrast is no where near the Dolch
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:50:58
Finally sealed the deal with GMK, yey :)

(Attachment Link)

Man props on making this happen - I'll definitely chip in and buy a couple just to help you on your way
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Polymer on Wed, 09 September 2015, 11:20:39
Yeap...interested as well...Bold move...
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: joey on Wed, 09 September 2015, 11:40:13
I'd probably purchase a couple too, just to help you out!
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: ATXTider on Wed, 09 September 2015, 12:19:15
+1 for buying some sets off you when it comes time!
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 09 September 2015, 23:49:50
Thanks for the support

Some suggestions for future GMK personal buys:
1) Decide exactly what you want and avoid queries, each query adds at least one week (on the bright side, almost no email is left unreplied)
2) Just pursue exactly what you want relentlessly (1+2 applies to many other things as well)
3) Each keycap roughly costs 1 euros, likely more for 1u+ ones, I don't know the exact pricing
4) The MOQ is 250 for each unique keycap (I wonder what kind of keycap dynamics Uniqey keyboards are going to have)
5) Shipping etc. adds ~60euros
6) Swift seems to be the only payment method (luckily, it was as simple as a local transfer from my bank/online, but I remember swift's being manual before)

I think it's great that this is at least doable, let's say if the cost for bumped F/J's is roughly 550 euros, if 10 people could pitch in for every GB, alternative homing keys would become a reality for many at a relatively affordable cost

It's pretty sad that the need for alternative homing keys are ignored by almost every GMK GB, there are a lot of extras, but no alternative homing keys, I take it as an insult personally

(Still haven't decided what to do with the ~220 extras, how to handle the logistics etc., living in a paranoid country and being a lazy person myself, I'm soft-limited to 3-4 international shippings a month, but on the bright side, at least these F/J's will be available one way or the other in 6-8 weeks* - probably 2-3 months)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 10 September 2015, 08:08:09

It's pretty sad that the need for alternative homing keys are ignored by almost every GMK GB, there are a lot of extras, but no alternative homing keys, I take it as an insult personally


I'm not sure if this is the right attitude to have with GBs
A GB is a balancing act between affordable prices and optimum joining numbers
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 10 September 2015, 09:10:52

It's pretty sad that the need for alternative homing keys are ignored by almost every GMK GB, there are a lot of extras, but no alternative homing keys, I take it as an insult personally


I'm not sure if this is the right attitude to have with GBs
A GB is a balancing act between affordable prices and optimum joining numbers

Let's say there are 100 possible extras, and only 20 is affordable, in most GB's, even aesthetical extras take priority over bumped homing keys, bumped F/J's aren't even included in the Extras packs

If you inspect these GB's, runners are always scoop users themselves, the needs of non-scoop users are always ignored, it's easy to ignore the needs of others when one's own needs are satisfied

Anyway, I got enough GMK's to last a lifetime, so it's not my problem anymore :)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 10 September 2015, 09:14:21

It's pretty sad that the need for alternative homing keys are ignored by almost every GMK GB, there are a lot of extras, but no alternative homing keys, I take it as an insult personally


I'm not sure if this is the right attitude to have with GBs
A GB is a balancing act between affordable prices and optimum joining numbers

Let's say there are 100 possible extras, and only 20 is affordable, in most GB's, even aesthetical extras take priority over bumped homing keys, bumped F/J's aren't even included in the Extras packs

If you inspect these GB's, runners are always scoop users themselves, the needs of non-scoop users are always ignored, it's easy to ignore the needs of others when one's own needs are satisfied

Anyway, I got enough GMK's to last a lifetime, so it's not my problem anymore :)

The truth is though that its what the majority wants that matters - even if its just an aesthetic add on

In the few GMK GBs I've been in there has never been a vocal majority asking for nibbed homing keys - pretty much everyone wants stuff like HHKB, 75%, 1800 support and dank colour packs
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Polymer on Thu, 10 September 2015, 09:36:40
No they don't..a few people want that.

The number of 1800s out there is really small.  HHKB layout?  Not common at all on MX...

I'm for layout support but again, this comes down to what the GB leader wants for his/her layout support even if only a handful of people actually support it.  Look at the mixed TA profile GB...I think literally ONE person wanted it and the GB Leader was open to the idea...done..

I completely understand ISO, 60%, WKL..even 75%...but some of the more exotic layouts..no way...
Same with extras when it comes to looks...We're already buying the GB because of the looks..if we want to customize it further, there are tons of other GBs where they'll fit.  Look at Hyperfuse, the colors went with other mod packs already out there which was a great idea.

A quick peek in the scoops/nibs thread and you can see, there are quite a few users that prefer nibs...

Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Giorgio on Thu, 10 September 2015, 10:45:18
Interest checks serve the only purpose of building the hype. Suggestions are not welcomed, and if you dare to suggest something the OP often threatens you with personal messages, saying things like "if you didn't ask, I would have included that function, but since you have insisted, I will not include it". Interest checks suck.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: joey on Thu, 10 September 2015, 11:17:29
Lol, so bitter.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 10 September 2015, 12:07:56
Wow that hasn't been my experience with ICs whatsoever
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Dee1 on Thu, 10 September 2015, 12:56:47


Finally sealed the deal with GMK, yey :)
Awesome! +1 for picking up a few sets later. :)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Polymer on Fri, 11 September 2015, 00:33:23
Wow that hasn't been my experience with ICs whatsoever

I agree..it isn't quite that...but they're not really looking for a lot of recommendations either..unless they agree with them. 

The Scoops/Nibs thread was something like what..38-40% pro nibs....So if you drop that to 30% as representative of the population as a whole...which even includes those people that have never tried scoops so they can't possibly prefer them..but lets just say conservatively, 30%...

30% is higher than the % of the people in a GB with the funky layouts..like 1800...even 75%....and yet those preferences are preferred over adding TWO..just TWO keys...Which is less than either of those layouts add ons..Basically, if the GB Runner doesn't want it, it won't happen..that's fine...I can accept that..but don't act like you're going with what people a good chunk of people are asking for..and of all things it is FEEL which is probably the most important aspect of keycaps...
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 11 September 2015, 01:26:20
Wow that hasn't been my experience with ICs whatsoever

I agree..it isn't quite that...but they're not really looking for a lot of recommendations either..unless they agree with them. 

The Scoops/Nibs thread was something like what..38-40% pro nibs....So if you drop that to 30% as representative of the population as a whole...which even includes those people that have never tried scoops so they can't possibly prefer them..but lets just say conservatively, 30%...

30% is higher than the % of the people in a GB with the funky layouts..like 1800...even 75%....and yet those preferences are preferred over adding TWO..just TWO keys...Which is less than either of those layouts add ons..Basically, if the GB Runner doesn't want it, it won't happen..that's fine...I can accept that..but don't act like you're going with what people a good chunk of people are asking for..and of all things it is FEEL which is probably the most important aspect of keycaps...

Wow, the situation couldn't have been summarised better, well done

------

I think I roughly decided how to distribute the keycaps, I was considering two options, one was pretty financial but it enabled me to recover my spending pretty quick, the other was the opposite, I was going to give ~50 sets free to trusted distributers that is willing to distribute them in EU/UK

I think I will find the middle ground and price them at an affordable sum but set a min. order amount as I don't have the time or energy to ship a lot of items.

This will likely trigger mini GB's in US/EU and everyone will get their keycaps easily and affordably and It will at least make it worthwhile for me to ship them abroad (I'm unbelievably lazy)

------

I have 5 Dolch alphas yet I will probably use like 10 F/J's min. as I intend to sand them a bit and casualties might occur :)

The GMK bump is pretty piercing, here is a comparison:
[attachimg=1]

Vortex PBT's are inferior in quality as the stem holder gap shows from the top of the keycap, yet their bump design is much superior, it's small yet noticeable, it's comfortable to press, luckily sanding the GMK achieves the same result and it's possible to do without damaging the keycap
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Polymer on Fri, 11 September 2015, 01:47:05
Khaannn,

Since you've already dealt with GMK...why don't you start your own GB?  Maybe see if someone wants to design it with you and get one going....I think the only issues is there have been a flood of them lately...
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 11 September 2015, 02:18:50
Khaannn,

Since you've already dealt with GMK...why don't you start your own GB?  Maybe see if someone wants to design it with you and get one going....I think the only issues is there have been a flood of them lately...

A basic set costs 15.000 euros with a rough calculation, let's say 20.000 euros with some satisfactory extras

I would probably just separate things and approach it as alphas+modifiers, get some risk-free alphas like white on black, dolch alphas, black on white etc.

Then probably get separate modifiers made similar to billnye's - this puts me around 100.000 euros max, a significant investment, but it enables buyers to mix and match alphas and modifiers to their liking freely

The real challenge is the business and taxing part, I hate the concept of an official taxed business, so the idea ends here, it wouldn't be easy to do all these and do it on a personal scale, I try to influence Originative instead, which pretty much does this, the next set of Dolch's are going to include a 1.75 R3 Control for example (also 1.25 blanks), it's a small victory but a victory :)

Also, again comparatively, on a personal/selfish scale, I achieved this for myself by spending <<2000 euros, I have a lot of unique modifiers, blanks, dolch alphas, bumped F/J's on the way, so extending the existing sets on the market is always much much easier

I think it should even be a thing, GB leaders could allow small groups to add custom keys, and the GB leader could handle the payment etc. - this way no one would become upset, they either would pay or accept the situation
This is much more doable with SP, a unique keycap is $100, and producing 10 probably makes it $12 x 10 or something, $50-$60 is a small amount to pay for some keycaps that will make a set perfect for you (each absurd layout generally has 5-6 supporters at least, probably 50-60 for alternative homing keys)

As another unrelated note, I think these extra keycap ideas are falsely dismissed by individuals, I see a lot of people that spend $100-200's on multiple keycap sets, yet a lot of people shy away from paying $100-200 for custom keycaps that they need - paying $100-200 for one set and $400-500 for custom keycaps makes a bit more sense to me, because no matter how many $100-200's you drop on multiple sets, you usually can't get exactly what you want (my DSA adventure is a physical manifestation of this, I had 6-7 sets at least but didn't have what I want, ended up selling them all, now with GMK's, I have what I want, I will soon move on after an exact year of a keyboard/cap journey)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Polymer on Fri, 11 September 2015, 04:07:28
Well the problem is that extras or the extra layouts...those never hit MOQ for GMK...although I do agree, people need to be willing to pay more....

Like FJ nibs...If getting them cost 500 euro in total....You just need to say, ok, the MOQ is 50..but at 50 we're splitting the cost so everyone pays 10 Euro each...but then everyone gets 5 sets...If you get more you can split it out further...essentially you still end up paying 1 euro for each key but everyone has to take an even share (or people can take more if they want).  Shipping is already part of the main set. 

Actually, that might be the way to hit MOQ for the extras...and those people that end up not hitting 250 just end up with extra sets...they might just keep them or they can sell them later...and if they do nothing with it they've paid more for those few extras but at least they have what they want...

The more extra keys you need, the more you'll need to be in it..and the people that don't want it don't need to stump up for it..
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: joey on Fri, 11 September 2015, 05:19:27
Are you suggesting to add FJbars to extras sets, or making them their own set within a GB?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 11 September 2015, 06:02:25
Are you suggesting to add FJbars to extras sets, or making them their own set within a GB?

I'm suggesting they become a standard minimal addition to all base sets

If not, I'm suggesting they at least become available at an increased cost in increased quantities (The MOQ could be 25 but each set would include 10 F/J's)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: joey on Fri, 11 September 2015, 06:24:56
I was asking Polymer, it sounded like he wanted to add 10 FJ into the "normal" extras set.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Polymer on Fri, 11 September 2015, 12:16:17
No..both Khaannn and I are on the same page.

I'd prefer to see it as the regular extras..but if not you can add it and have the people that want it order it. But rather than require a MOQ of 250 for those buyers, you make it something like 50..it is still part of the GB but lets say 50 people order it..the real MOQ is 250 so each of those people would get 5 of each key and they'd pay for 5 of each key...(So in this specific example, 5 x F w/ nibs, 5 x J w/ nibs.

Those people could use it themselves...sell them, give them away..whatever...

Some might argue..well the point is to get as many people in the GB as possible..sure...but if you want your specific special keys, be prepared to pay extra but you'll get a bunch of extra keys...the concept might fail but then this comes back to, people are really insistent their preference gets included even when there aren't that many people with that layout and they're ok with sticking other people with those keys...

Whereas, at least Khaannn and I are saying, look, I'll pay extra for those specific keys I want (within reason) so other people don't have to eat that cost...
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 27 April 2016, 18:19:04
Hey everyone,

First of all, apologies.

I intended to make these: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73910.msg1860342#msg1860342 keycaps available 4 months ago, but things have not been very good lately, I feel like I let many people down by delaying this much, for what it's worth, I haven't used the F/J's myself yet, but I've been using the alpha coloured tab, it's a beauty :)

I finally shipped 100X of each to Sheraton/Originative, so hopefully they will be easily and affordably available in 2-3 weeks tops

Once/if they are available from Originative, going to try and pm everyone who showed interest, pm'ed or wanted to be informed

Finally pursuing my last build too:

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

(Exact layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e981a31e8654ca60b7c8 - realized I used the old layout for the screenshots :) The arrows have standard 60% spots in the linked layout, the gaps are nice to have too, after using 1.25 arrows for a year, the fingers relax)

Tho the alpha coloured tab should look better in full size / regular 60%'s
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: romevi on Wed, 27 April 2016, 18:32:28
Hey everyone,

First of all, apologies.

I intended to make these: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73910.msg1860342#msg1860342 keycaps available 4 months ago, but things have not been very good lately, I feel like I let many people down by delaying this much, for what it's worth, I haven't used the F/J's myself yet, but I've been using the alpha coloured tab, it's a beauty :)

I finally shipped 100X of each to Sheraton/Originative, so hopefully they will be easily and affordably available in 2-3 weeks tops

Once/if they are available from Originative, going to try and pm everyone who showed interest, pm'ed or wanted to be informed

Finally pursuing my last build too:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Exact layout: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e981a31e8654ca60b7c8 - realized I used the old layout for the screenshots :) The arrows have standard 60% spots in the linked layout, the gaps are nice to have too, after using 1.25 arrows for a year, the fingers relax)

Tho the alpha coloured tab should look better in full size / regular 60%'s

Looking forward to the bars.

Also, is that a project you're working on for yourself or do you intend to release it to the public?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 27 April 2016, 18:50:20
Looking forward to the bars.

Also, is that a project you're working on for yourself or do you intend to release it to the public?

Myself, there isn't significant interest to custom arrowed 60%'s as far as I checked, I also don't have the energy for such an undertaking, it took me 5 stupid months to even ship these keycaps

Here is a potato photo of the setup, switches not inserted:

[attachimg=1]

Off topic, the case/plate color challenged me more than it should, TEX case is a perfect case, yet GMK keycaps have sharp edges, so they look bad inside the TEX case which has a border radius of ~3mm, probably perfect for D/SA keycaps - no matter which combo I tried, I couldn't beat the Vortex-silver case + stainless steel plate combo. Apart from the obsession tho, tex-case + 3d printed plates are more comfortable to use, so just going forward now, the colors also surprisingly match the G602 mouse 1:1

If you are interested in this specific layout, you only have to drill for one keycap placement (the Alt that is aligned with the Shift's edge), drill 2 easy places on the sprit 60% pcb
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 28 April 2016, 02:10:58
The long awaited bumped homing keys and alpha coloured tab key :p
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: iamtootallforthis on Fri, 29 April 2016, 01:18:43
I still can't believe you purchased all those keys yourself.

I'd love to get a pair of bumps myself.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Jemaunji on Fri, 29 April 2016, 12:31:43
I'm going to try and pick up that F/J set and I'm digging that 60% w/ arrow layout.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 01 July 2016, 04:37:17
Hi everyone,

The keycaps are finally on Originative, sorry for the delays (both from my side and later on Originative :)

I'm going to try and inform everyone who needed these keycaps as much as I did, already sent some PM's, if I miss anyone, again, apologies

For what it's worth, I still haven't used the F/J's myself, got so used to the original Ivan Cyan's :)

This is my last iteration, probably tested 100's of different combinations up to now, but just can't start building the thing, once you have a satisfying keyboard, building a new one becomes extremely challenging, the sanding of parts, the modifying of switches, the calibration of stabs, it seems like an impossible task now

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: romevi on Fri, 01 July 2016, 10:19:51
Hi everyone,

The keycaps are finally on Originative, sorry for the delays (both from my side and later on Originative :)

I'm going to try and inform everyone who needed these keycaps as much as I did, already sent some PM's, if I miss anyone, again, apologies

For what it's worth, I still haven't used the F/J's myself, got so used to the original Ivan Cyan's :)

This is my last iteration, probably tested 100's of different combinations up to now, but just can't start building the thing, once you have a satisfying keyboard, building a new one becomes extremely challenging, the sanding of parts, the modifying of switches, the calibration of stabs, it seems like an impossible task now

(Attachment Link)

What are the original Ivan Cyans?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 01 July 2016, 10:21:57
What are the original Ivan Cyans?

These: (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0490/7329/products/Dolch_Addon.JPG?v=1417083743) ( https://zealpc.net/collections/keycap-sets/products/dolch )
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: romevi on Fri, 01 July 2016, 10:29:12
What are the original Ivan Cyans?

These:
Show Image
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0490/7329/products/Dolch_Addon.JPG?v=1417083743)
( https://zealpc.net/collections/keycap-sets/products/dolch )

Ah, yes. Those.
I really need to get a full set of Ivan's Dolch one of these days.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: ATXTider on Tue, 05 July 2016, 22:17:15
Got my sets from Originative today!  Using some bumped F's and J's right now!

Feelsgoodman.png
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: ika on Tue, 05 July 2016, 22:21:35
I just use a little bit of Elmer's glue to make a small bump on the front of the cap. Do it right and you can't tell the difference between that and bars, tbh.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 06 July 2016, 06:52:48
Got my sets from Originative today!  Using some bumped F's and J's right now!

Feelsgoodman.png

Wohoo!

I just use a little bit of Elmer's glue to make a small bump on the front of the cap. Do it right and you can't tell the difference between that and bars, tbh.

I'm personally a fan of subtractive modifications rather than additive, as additive's might peal/wear off and ruin your day, and there's also the matter of looks
(Like sanding the bumps so they are smoother, and sanding the keys where the thumb touches them, like the spacebar and the bottom modifiers)
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Poplicola on Tue, 12 July 2016, 17:44:44
Sent for mine F and J Dolch keys today.
I look forward to putting them where they are meant to go.

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 13 July 2016, 05:55:33
Sent for mine F and J Dolch keys today.
I look forward to putting them where they are meant to go.

Thanks so much!

I hope you enjoy them!

------

Some recent thoughts on the subject:

This set really peaked my interest: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-carbon-custom-keycap-set, after using white on color keycaps for so long, the opposite really allures me, really wish they included some bumped F/J's - as the alpha base color is so good - it's sad that most sets still don't include both homing options

On another front, PBT+dyed/Cherry's are extending rapidly, unfortunately most mimic the fonts/alignments of GMK but very few nail it

On another front, for 300 euros, one can buy a Uniqey keyboard, get the keycaps, sell the keyboard for ~200 euros, it's interesting that they don't publicly provide scooped homing keys, while they provide many other options

I used to wish to get rich to buy sports cars and stuff like that, now I wish to get rich and order a custom keyset
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Aricil on Fri, 15 July 2016, 10:22:40
It seems all the GMK F/J's out there are scooped with the exception of Ivan's Color pack: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0490/7329/products/Dolch_Addon.JPG?v=1417083743 - which kind of beats the purpose with the marginal colors (at least for me)

I don't know whether I will get used to the scoops over time, I will certainly try, however in the meantime I will rather look for solutions (I hate scoops and find bumps tolerable, scoops make the keys feel clumsy)

I sent an email to GMK to buy bumped F/J's at MOQ - I don't know whether:
i) Is it possible?
ii) Will the cost be feasible? (I guess <$500 would be acceptable)
iii) How long will it take?
iv) Will the colors match the existing colors (I mean, when matched with existing keys, will it be possible to differentiate them, since they were molded on different batches - I'm guessing 99% they will match the existing keycaps, as I can't differentiate keycaps from different batches on room lighting conditions)

If I succeed in this quest, I plan to sell or give away the additional F/J's to those in need

You know what's funny is I was thinking the exact same thing. I have 2 boards, a Novatouch and a Varmilo. The Varmilo has the custom keycaps that it came with, which Varmilo has a sort of Cherry/OEM hybrid profile, and then I have the Triumph Adler keycap set on the Novatouch. I really like both of them and go back and forth between the two, but the thing that I vastly prefer the Varmilo for is that it doesn't have the scoops. Just 2 small dots. Which I like a lot. They're ever so small and on the bottom of the keycap, so that I can use them and not be bothered by them but still know when my fingers hit the home keys. I was actually wondering if I'd end up getting used to the GMK keycaps or not. I wish there was an option to just get a F and J key without the scoop and bumps instead. I also want to join the Skeletor group buy but the scoops are making me wonder whether or not I should....
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:09:34
You know what's funny is I was thinking the exact same thing. I have 2 boards, a Novatouch and a Varmilo. The Varmilo has the custom keycaps that it came with, which Varmilo has a sort of Cherry/OEM hybrid profile, and then I have the Triumph Adler keycap set on the Novatouch. I really like both of them and go back and forth between the two, but the thing that I vastly prefer the Varmilo for is that it doesn't have the scoops. Just 2 small dots. Which I like a lot. They're ever so small and on the bottom of the keycap, so that I can use them and not be bothered by them but still know when my fingers hit the home keys. I was actually wondering if I'd end up getting used to the GMK keycaps or not. I wish there was an option to just get a F and J key without the scoop and bumps instead. I also want to join the Skeletor group buy but the scoops are making me wonder whether or not I should....

I was also in a similar situation, I had the Vortex PBT's, which have gentle bumps similar to the ones you mentioned, I tried using GMK scoops, but it didn't work out, I tried using the Vortex F/J's with GMK, it was an insult to the beauty of GMK's, it didn't work out, the only solution was to get bumped F/J's

I'm going to join the Carbon GB, it doesn't cost much, I can also use the modifiers with other alphas, however with Skeletor, alphas are a major part of the set

Also consider this, you don't have to use the keyboard, just put them on a keyboard, put the keyboard on a shelf, and occasionally enjoy looking at the keyboard without actually using it - kind of like a Lego set :)

Additionally, if you email Sheraton, you might convince him to add bumped F/J's, Originative has many recent GMK sets, but sadly, as far as I see, the idea-owners of the sets didn't include bumped F/J's - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81860.0 - this one for example - which hit me hard, as I wanted wob's for so long
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 17 July 2016, 13:18:54
You know what's funny is I was thinking the exact same thing. I have 2 boards, a Novatouch and a Varmilo. The Varmilo has the custom keycaps that it came with, which Varmilo has a sort of Cherry/OEM hybrid profile, and then I have the Triumph Adler keycap set on the Novatouch. I really like both of them and go back and forth between the two, but the thing that I vastly prefer the Varmilo for is that it doesn't have the scoops. Just 2 small dots. Which I like a lot. They're ever so small and on the bottom of the keycap, so that I can use them and not be bothered by them but still know when my fingers hit the home keys. I was actually wondering if I'd end up getting used to the GMK keycaps or not. I wish there was an option to just get a F and J key without the scoop and bumps instead. I also want to join the Skeletor group buy but the scoops are making me wonder whether or not I should....

I was also in a similar situation, I had the Vortex PBT's, which have gentle bumps similar to the ones you mentioned, I tried using GMK scoops, but it didn't work out, I tried using the Vortex F/J's with GMK, it was an insult to the beauty of GMK's, it didn't work out, the only solution was to get bumped F/J's

I'm going to join the Carbon GB, it doesn't cost much, I can also use the modifiers with other alphas, however with Skeletor, alphas are a major part of the set

Also consider this, you don't have to use the keyboard, just put them on a keyboard, put the keyboard on a shelf, and occasionally enjoy looking at the keyboard without actually using it - kind of like a Lego set :)

Additionally, if you email Sheraton, you might convince him to add bumped F/J's, Originative has many recent GMK sets, but sadly, as far as I see, the idea-owners of the sets didn't include bumped F/J's - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81860.0 - this one for example - which hit me hard, as I wanted wob's for so long

So lucky that I've been able to jump on a gb with bars... This carbon set looked quite nice indeed. We should try to convince the group leader to add some bars.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 17 July 2016, 13:19:59

What are the original Ivan Cyans?


where's Ivan  ;D ;D
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: KHAANNN on Sun, 17 July 2016, 13:49:03
So lucky that I've been able to jump on a gb with bars... This carbon set looked quite nice indeed. We should try to convince the group leader to add some bars.

I've talked to him, he wasn't interested in getting them added at this point - understandable - I'm pretty sure most of the buyers would prefer bars tho - they probably don't even think about/notice bar/scoops yet - I think MD could do it at that pricepoint, but it would probably bump up the price <2%, and since the margins are probably very thin, it's not realistic to expect it - He said he would've added them if anyone asked during IC

Which GB is that?

It would have been awesome if there was a "GMK Mailing List" or something, that would track/email every IC/GB/Sale :D
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Giorgio on Sun, 17 July 2016, 14:50:47
fast, everyone posts his request for a bar addon! or email the gb leader if you know his address?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gmk-carbon-custom-keycap-set/talk
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Aricil on Mon, 18 July 2016, 08:39:38
You know what's funny is I was thinking the exact same thing. I have 2 boards, a Novatouch and a Varmilo. The Varmilo has the custom keycaps that it came with, which Varmilo has a sort of Cherry/OEM hybrid profile, and then I have the Triumph Adler keycap set on the Novatouch. I really like both of them and go back and forth between the two, but the thing that I vastly prefer the Varmilo for is that it doesn't have the scoops. Just 2 small dots. Which I like a lot. They're ever so small and on the bottom of the keycap, so that I can use them and not be bothered by them but still know when my fingers hit the home keys. I was actually wondering if I'd end up getting used to the GMK keycaps or not. I wish there was an option to just get a F and J key without the scoop and bumps instead. I also want to join the Skeletor group buy but the scoops are making me wonder whether or not I should....

I was also in a similar situation, I had the Vortex PBT's, which have gentle bumps similar to the ones you mentioned, I tried using GMK scoops, but it didn't work out, I tried using the Vortex F/J's with GMK, it was an insult to the beauty of GMK's, it didn't work out, the only solution was to get bumped F/J's

I'm going to join the Carbon GB, it doesn't cost much, I can also use the modifiers with other alphas, however with Skeletor, alphas are a major part of the set

Also consider this, you don't have to use the keyboard, just put them on a keyboard, put the keyboard on a shelf, and occasionally enjoy looking at the keyboard without actually using it - kind of like a Lego set :)

Additionally, if you email Sheraton, you might convince him to add bumped F/J's, Originative has many recent GMK sets, but sadly, as far as I see, the idea-owners of the sets didn't include bumped F/J's - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81860.0 - this one for example - which hit me hard, as I wanted wob's for so long

So you don't have any more of these dotted F and J keys left then?
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: shower_king on Thu, 21 July 2016, 03:34:21
G80-3494 and black widow are my first batch of mechanical keyboards. They all have FJ bars. After that many cherry and filco i have bought all have bars. I almost get used to bars. especially i was  given to finding the FJ bars to restore my hands  where they start when typing. Ofcoure FJ bars afford me convenience to restore my hands' location on my keyboard.
When using GMK on G80-3494, i cost lots of time to geting accustomed to the deepfish, especially when my hand to locate the FJ after typing other characters. I am get used to deepfish and prefer to it. because except for affording quick and pricise location on keyboard , deepfish offers more comfortability than bars. Tars annoys my finger tip and my finger tip always scratch the bars.
Some one may like me who need more time to adapt to deepfish due to they use FJ bars first and last for a long time. Some one may like you who never get used to deepfish. I don't know why this happen . however i respect your choice and persistance to asking for adding FJ bars into fullset.
i don't know the result about your persistance but reasonable request at adequate time(IC) in sincere tone but not in annoying and disturbing way may be better and more acceptable to GB starter.
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: TD22057 on Thu, 21 July 2016, 22:46:11
FYI - the GMK Carbon GB on MassDrop just added F/J bars at the 1000 order mark which will get hit (300 orders inbound from China).
Title: Re: GMK Scoop/Bump Obsession - A Possible Solution
Post by: Giorgio on Wed, 03 August 2016, 03:03:51
FYI - the GMK Carbon GB on MassDrop just added F/J bars at the 1000 order mark which will get hit (300 orders inbound from China).

fantastic news