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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 31 July 2015, 18:09:22
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http://www.pcgamer.com/best-mechanical-switches-for-gaming/
Hi friends,
I've come to be an ass and humble brag but to also get feedback. I've been writing on and off for a little while. Some of you may have read my reviews.
I've been kinda quiet on the hack because of work but also because I was hired by PC Gamer to write this article. It published today and represents my first professionally published piece.
I'm excited but I also would love to hear feedback. I'd like to know how I can improve.
Thanks!
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Congratulations man! This is really, really awesome. That is one very comprehensive article, and a great guide, particularity for someone new to the game. And you should brag (at least a little!). You totally deserve it. :thumb:
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good job king dong
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Your posts are pretty 1337 if you get what I mean *wink wink*.
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very nice!!!
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Excellent!
And just enough "tickle" on vintage switches to let the kiddies know that they exist, but that they will have to learn about them on their own.
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Yep. Great article. Very well written and put together. Perhaps our community will see some new enthusiasts now.
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Great article mate, looks really professional :) . It's great for people to have a source they can read up with that's not written by one of the million billion dumb****s you usually see marketing keyboards online.
I'm pretty sure Alps were in production longer than until 1996, though. My AT101W is from 2001, and those aren't even simplified ones. Also, hysteresis isn't inherent to tactile or clicky switches; there are ones without it! ;)
Maybe you could add some more titbits to the BS part, too. Since you compare actuation travel on other switches, it might be worth mentioning BS actuation travel is especially long, longer than Cherries, and in the 2KRO bit you can add that the capacitive ones have NKRO.
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Great read :thumb:
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Nice article CPT! :thumb:
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Great article mate, looks really professional :) . It's great for people to have a source they can read up with that's not written by one of the million billion dumb****s you usually see marketing keyboards online.
I'm pretty sure Alps were in production longer than until 1996, though. My AT101W is from 2001, and those aren't even simplified ones. Also, hysteresis isn't inherent to tactile or clicky switches; there are ones without it! ;)
Maybe you could add some more titbits to the BS part, too. Since you compare actuation travel on other switches, it might be worth mentioning BS actuation travel is especially long, longer than Cherries, and in the 2KRO bit you can add that the capacitive ones have NKRO.
Are you sure about the Alps production dates? I pulled that info from the DT Wiki. Doesn't mean it's right but the Wiki is usually a good source. Unless I misread it.
Can you explain further about your statement about hystersis?
And BS was tricky for me. The editor wanted me to stick with modern stuff so I wasn't sure how to squeeze in IBM capacitive buckling spring stuff.
I've been considering making like a level 2. If this is level 1 then level 2 talks more about vintage or custom stuff. Not sure yet if I want to do that though.
Thanks for all the kind words. Hoping this helps someone get into mech boards. Then I'll rope em into loving Alps or BS when they find GH ;). Really loving the constructive feedback too so please let me know what you liked and disliked. Definitely need to keep improving.
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http://www.pcgamer.com/best-mechanical-switches-for-gaming/
Hi friends,
I've come to be an ass and humble brag but to also get feedback. I've been writing on and off for a little while. Some of you may have read my reviews.
I've been kinda quiet on the hack because of work but also because I was hired by PC Gamer to write this article. It published today and represents my first professionally published piece.
I'm excited but I also would love to hear feedback. I'd like to know how I can improve.
Thanks!
wow anson I'm very impressed. Although not surprised after reading tactile :p really this is pretty stellar I hope you are proud of yourself young man !!!
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Are you sure about the Alps production dates? I pulled that info from the DT Wiki. Doesn't mean it's right but the Wiki is usually a good source. Unless I misread it.
I'm sure about the date on my board xD . They might've been leftovers, but they'll have been pretty damn old leftovers by that time xD .
Can you explain further about your statement about hystersis?
What I meant was, some clicky/tactile switches don't have hysteresis. At some point you mention "There is no bump or click to overcome so there is no hysteresis", which makes it sound like all tactile switches have this, but some don't :) .
Thanks for all the kind words. Hoping this helps someone get into mech boards. Then I'll rope em into loving Alps or BS when they find GH ;).
Hahaha nice one ;) . Keep up the good work, you're obviously a good writer :) .
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Excellent unbiased article CPT. Very good read and plenty of info to help those that are interested get into the mechanical game.
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Are you sure about the Alps production dates? I pulled that info from the DT Wiki. Doesn't mean it's right but the Wiki is usually a good source. Unless I misread it.
I'm sure about the date on my board xD . They might've been leftovers, but they'll have been pretty damn old leftovers by that time xD .
Huh ok. I wonder if they were leftovers though like you said. On the V80 that I brought to Keycon, they found Fukka simplified Alps somewhere and tossed em on the board. I couldn't tell if they sat for 5 days or 5 years in the warehouse.
Can you explain further about your statement about hystersis?
What I meant was, some clicky/tactile switches don't have hysteresis. At some point you mention "There is no bump or click to overcome so there is no hysteresis", which makes it sound like all tactile switches have this, but some don't :) .
Hm that's true. I wonder how I can clarify that. Let me think or if you had a suggestion, let me know :).
Thanks for all the kind words. Hoping this helps someone get into mech boards. Then I'll rope em into loving Alps or BS when they find GH ;).
Hahaha nice one ;) . Keep up the good work, you're obviously a good writer :) .
Your reviews > my writing. I love how you focus on vintage stuff too. Again thanks for the feedback!
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And BS was tricky for me. The editor wanted me to stick with modern stuff so I wasn't sure how to squeeze in IBM capacitive buckling spring stuff.
Don't. Unicomp is a solid, complete ecoverse for neophytes.
If they get the bug, they can go exploring on their own.
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this is very well written and was a pleasure to read. i didn't expect to learn stuff along the way, so i feel kinda tricked, but i forgive u so we're cool
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Lethal squirrel didn't get credited for the mx gifs :(
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I'll talk to the editor. It's bugging me that silencium didn't get credited for the Topre force curves either even though I pointed it out
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One thing I did find weird is the placement of the switch pictures. For example, you get a picture of a bs board right before the bs part. But then matias is just randomly thrown in there in the middle. Also, is there a specific reason why mx isn't grouped together? Like listing all mx together, then bs/topre/ matias? Sorry for being critical over small stuff.
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I didn't get to pick the pictures or place them. That confused me as well. I didn't reply fast enough so they just made a decision.
They're not grouped because this was how the page layout/formatting worked. Like how the side bars and everything else would look. I asked the same exact question.
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Ah. Yeah I figured that was beyond your control. Anyway, congrats on getting published.
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Congrats! That was a good article.
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Surprised Alps mount wasn't at the top of the list :P
JK, nice write up. Much more depth than the average "WHAT BOARD SHOULD YOU BUY?" article.
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Can you explain further about your statement about hystersis?
What I meant was, some clicky/tactile switches don't have hysteresis. At some point you mention "There is no bump or click to overcome so there is no hysteresis", which makes it sound like all tactile switches have this, but some don't :) .
Hm that's true. I wonder how I can clarify that. Let me think or if you had a suggestion, let me know :).
It might be better not to link this to tactility and just state it as a byproduct of certain switch designs. Mention it on switches on which it's quite prominent, or prominently absent, maybe? Or even include it in a simple comparison table between keyboard families?
Thanks for all the kind words. Hoping this helps someone get into mech boards. Then I'll rope em into loving Alps or BS when they find GH ;).
Hahaha nice one ;) . Keep up the good work, you're obviously a good writer :) .
Your reviews > my writing. I love how you focus on vintage stuff too. Again thanks for the feedback!
[/quote]Aw cheers mate :) . The vintage thing is partly based on me being way too poor to really buy keyboards, tbh, so I have to make do with what people throw away xD . It just happens that that's usually also the good stuff!
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Great article. I imagine this is going to get a lot of people interested in mechs that may not have been before! I think in the next couple years interest in the hobby is really going to expand to a point that few ever thought possible. Articles like this in major publications are one of the things that move us closer to that reality.
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Nice write-up. It would be cool to have even more people get the mechanical keyboard bug. :)
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Happy to see you write professionally, CTPBadAss! I like all the information you have gathered in one spot, and reading the article was enjoyable and comprehensible.
Job well done, and keep it up. You definitely have a great understanding of how to write, and what information to keep so that it's an interesting read without too much technicality for the uninitiated.
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Nicely done young man. :)
I was surprised you didn't mention Logitech/Omron's Romer-G switch? Weren't those specifically designed for gaming in mind? Reduced actuation travel and bottoming out, dual-redundancy actuators, landing pads, less wobble from its wide key stem etc.
Speaking of which, the Alps wobble may have been worth mentioning? I guess it's difficult to convey this characteristic though without it sounding negative?
Would a brief provisory about how switches are affected by other factors confuse uninformed readers? e.g. plate or PCB mount, keycap thickness/material, responsiveness of the controller? Cherry's new RealKey tech boasting 1ms debounce times...
O-rings! How they too can affect the feel of a switch? i.e. In the context of gaming, they can facilitate quicker keypresses for those who frequently bottom out?
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Happy to see you write professionally, CTPBadAss! I like all the information you have gathered in one spot, and reading the article was enjoyable and comprehensible.
Job well done, and keep it up. You definitely have a great understanding of how to write, and what information to keep so that it's an interesting read without too much technicality for the uninitiated.
To preface all this, I have a word count limit and a scope limit. The article was meant to be for beginners. Like you heard about mechanical keyboards and want to know the basics. I really appreciate the replies though so I'll try to address what has been said.
It might be better not to link this to tactility and just state it as a byproduct of certain switch designs. Mention it on switches on which it's quite prominent, or prominently absent, maybe? Or even include it in a simple comparison table between keyboard families?
I'm still struggling to figure out how I should present that information. Diving into hysteresis is a bit out of the range of the article. The goal was to be an introductory thing and not aimed for what we consider to be "normal" discussion here on GH. Let me think about it.
Aw cheers mate :) . The vintage thing is partly based on me being way too poor to really buy keyboards, tbh, so I have to make do with what people throw away xD . It just happens that that's usually also the good stuff!
Nothing wrong with that at all.
I was surprised you didn't mention Logitech/Omron's Romer-G switch? Weren't those specifically designed for gaming in mind? Reduced actuation travel and bottoming out, dual-redundancy actuators, landing pads, less wobble from its wide key stem etc.
I've never tried them nor am I sure that they're very popular. And I have trouble differentiating marketing from design intent. Is it actually made for gamers or is that just Logitech's marketing spin? Also, I still think that the switches I've covered are more prevalent on the market versus the Romer-G. And I've never tried them so I really can't comment one way or another on them.
Speaking of which, the Alps wobble may have been worth mentioning? I guess it's difficult to convey this characteristic though without it sounding negative?
Maybe? But I don't find the wobble to be too noticeable. I'll think on that as well.
Would a brief provisory about how switches are affected by other factors confuse uninformed readers? e.g. plate or PCB mount, keycap thickness/material, responsiveness of the controller? Cherry's new RealKey tech boasting 1ms debounce times...
O-rings! How they too can affect the feel of a switch? i.e. In the context of gaming, they can facilitate quicker keypresses for those who frequently bottom out?
Nope, these are way out of the scope of the article. Definitely good for a Level 2 article. This is like Level 1. When I was at this point in mechanical keyboards, I was struggling to wrap my head around just the stock keyboards and switches available. O-rings, plates, PCB mount, swapping keycaps, and all that came later.
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Speaking of which, the Alps wobble may have been worth mentioning? I guess it's difficult to convey this characteristic though without it sounding negative?
Maybe? But I don't find the wobble to be too noticeable. I'll think on that as well.
Don't bother. Wobble is massively blown out of proportion. I only mentioned it as a curiosity of Hi-Tek switches where it's conspicuously absent, but wobble really doesn't mean anything.
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PCPer has linked to your article! :)
http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/PC-Gamer-Compares-Mechanical-Keyboards
I hope you get the chance to go into more detail in subsequent instalments? The more the uninitiated know, the better. A lot of people don't get the chance to try out switches in the flesh and have to blind purchase boards based on what info they can glean online?
Hmm, maybe suggesting a switch sampler would be useful?
I dunno, maybe you're right about the marketing spiel coming from Logitech? It just seemed to me like a genuine attempt to make a gamers switch after watching Linus' Omron factory tour video and reading articles like this;
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/logitech-g910-orion-spark-romer-g,news-49283.html
Anyways, I hope Logitech sees your work and has the sense to send you a reviewers board? A G310 maybe?! :))
I only mentioned the ALPs wobble as I personally got a chance to test out a Tactile Pro and it did make me hesitate?
But then it would only be fair to mention the inconsistency of Cherry's tactile and clicky switches? Was this guy trolling or was this for real?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2jb42j/news_would_you_people_please_stop_buying_the/
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A good read, easy to follow.
I agree that the pictures are a little random, but accept that you didn't get much say in them.
A table summarising the switches would have been nice - a column for linear, tactile, stiff, light and so on.
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Really good read! Lots of information with regards to history and origins of the mechanical switches. I work at Lexmark, and I didn't know we made the buckling springs! Too bad those things are gone now. :(
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I hope you get the chance to go into more detail in subsequent instalments? The more the uninitiated know, the better. A lot of people don't get the chance to try out switches in the flesh and have to blind purchase boards based on what info they can glean online?
Hmm, maybe suggesting a switch sampler would be useful?
You're assuming that I'm getting hired to write subsequent installments ;). And I believe that right now, there is plenty of opportunity to try out mechanical keyboards. Even if you have to take advantage of a return policy.
And suggesting a switch sampler is kinda silly in my opinion. They're all the same. Here's some switches on a plate that's not connected to a PCB. Just grab one.
I dunno, maybe you're right about the marketing spiel coming from Logitech? It just seemed to me like a genuine attempt to make a gamers switch after watching Linus' Omron factory tour video and reading articles like this;
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/logitech-g910-orion-spark-romer-g,news-49283.html
Anyways, I hope Logitech sees your work and has the sense to send you a reviewers board? A G310 maybe?! :))
Not saying that this happened specifically with Linus or the Tom's hardware article but it's very easy to pay someone to say nice things about your products. Something to keep in mind. Just like my opinion is not the be all end all and shouldn't be considered that.
But then it would only be fair to mention the inconsistency of Cherry's tactile and clicky switches? Was this guy trolling or was this for real?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2jb42j/news_would_you_people_please_stop_buying_the/
I did mention it briefly in the article and it's stated on Cherry's Technical Datasheet (http://cherrycorp.com/product/mx-series/) (In the link, click on Dimensions). It's just that people don't realize it. Cherry specifically states that their actuation forces have a tolerance band. It's suspected that the molds haven't been remade or maintained in a while and led to issues such as 2013's many batches of non-clicky Clicky MX switches.
Really good read! Lots of information with regards to history and origins of the mechanical switches. I work at Lexmark, and I didn't know we made the buckling springs! Too bad those things are gone now. :(
They're not gone at all. Unicomp owns Lexmark's buckling spring production equipment.
Really loving all the feedback. Thanks everyone :)