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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Z Overlord on Sun, 02 August 2015, 20:51:38
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I have a Filco Majestouch II keyboard with blue switches, and I am considering switching for gaming, does it actually make a difference or is it placebo? I fear that it's making "Stutter Stepping" in CSGO harder :confused:
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It's not bad to be honest but red or black switches will be slightly easier to do micro movements in csgo as they're linear. The tactile makes it slightly harder because it is above the actuation point. You have to overcome the tactile point and get back to the actuation point in order to register a single movement. However with linear switches like red or black, you can just hover around the actuation points and do micro movements more efficiently.
People will say there is no such thing as "gaming switch" and yes they are correct, but these things will affect slightly towards your micro presses on the keys for micro movement of your character. If your finger is used to the tactile and actuation points then it is totally fine. I don't use blues but I used browns and even Topre 55g for csgo before and I think it is alright. But if you want to execute perfect and smooth movement then a linear switch is recommended. I am using reds :thumb:
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I think they feel fine for gaming. I find reds too light and prefer the blues over them anyways.
Be prepared to annoy your team if you have a sensitive mic
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cherry blues are amazing all around switch, but for gaming I like reds or clears.
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Yes, blues can certainly be a disadvantage at least for some games and some people.
As Nuzey pointed out, on blues, the actuation point is is at one point, and the reset point is much higher.
To explain this, lets say you activate a Cherry switch in slow motion, your finger travels down about 2mm, now, while it's impossible, let's say you could stop your finger from descending as soon as it activated.
If you were on reds/blacks/browns/clears, if you lifted your finger up even the slightest amount, the key would release immediately. You could hover your finger and go from activate to release by moving your finger just half a millimeter. On a tactile switch like browns or clear, you can get the keyswitch right on the edge of activation and just ride that bump, barely moving your finger and moving in small steps.
On blues, while your finger stopped, part of the switch internals keeps moving down. Here is where the problem lies, in order to pull that part back up and release the keystroke, the switch needs to come nearly all the way back up to the top. You can't ride that bump, you have to go nearly all the way back up before you can go back down, this creates almost an artificial lag. In some games, this isn't an issue, but in an FPS, where you may be trying to nudge your character into a spot where you can see but have minimal exposure, like looking around a corner, it's deadly.
To me, it's uncontrolled. While you know exactly when a blue switch activates, you can't really feel when it releases. Worse, if the switch is sticky or slow, it can also be slow to release the key. When I'm playing an FPS, I need direct, precise control and blues lack that. This is also why some dislike reds and black, if you mash keys, by all means, those are great switches, but if you are a delicate typist, one who feels for the activation, or someone who rides that activation point, then you need something like browns or clears.
I'm one of those who will ride that bump to inch myself forward, so for me, the best Cherry switches I have used out of the box were brown and clear. However, I much prefer modded switches such as Jailhouse Blues or Ergo Clears. I prefer something quiet, with a more solid tactile bump, a light spring, and preferably with a high activation point, which is what Jailhouse Blues offer.
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My cousin who is 1337 uses blues on his bwu. Plays competitive all day long, and dota.
Spamming... You need to take your finger off of the key and back down. If you can find that point on browns, or reds and do it consistently it would be faster. But it's kind of negligible. If you don't like a switch, sell it here on the classifieds.
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Personally when you AD AD spam the hysterisis is not noticable(I play with a friend who has them and I have tried his keyboard before).
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i would recommend lighter-than-stock blacks for cs:go. they've felt the most comfortable for me (50-62g). second is tied between lubed browns and ergo-clears.
i would not recommend stock blues or topre. i guess you can go for heavier reds too, but stock reds are way too light for my taste.
also, have you checked this thread? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62235.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62235.0)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOyIrCMUe4A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOyIrCMUe4A)
Done with Blues. And no, that's not me, I'm not even close to jhlee's skill. But either way, you can take "X switch is best for Y" and wipe your butt with it. Personal preference comes first and foremost.
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I second the amazing clacktalk. I would avoid blues/greens/topre for CSGO. It will make your movement feel clunky. Linears are probably the best, but tactile would be good too.
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I mean, WarOwl on youtube (A global elite) uses blues on his keyboard. He prefers it because it means that he can hear and feel when he is clicking the keys.
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They're perfectly fine. I guess if you try to bounce the switch around to get that last little bit of precision in your movements you won't like them, but I've never had issues with small, precise movements using them and the feeling makes them incredibly nice to use while gaming.
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I think good or not it dependa on your personal preference
I myself dont mind blues for gaming though when I game with my blacks they would feel morw responsive due to actuation point
But I would prefer blues anytime, that because I love clicky stuff. I even know a guy who only game with buckling spring
Imo, there's no good or bad as long as you enjoy the feel
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I even know a guy who only game with buckling spring
That's intense! Is it one of the boards that has 2KRO, or has he modded it/gotten a NKRO version? I can't imagine gaming with 2KRO being very fun...
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I even know a guy who only game with buckling spring
That's intense! Is it one of the boards that has 2KRO, or has he modded it/gotten a NKRO version? I can't imagine gaming with 2KRO being very fun...
Gaming with a Model M's not THAT bad, and rollover is so overhyped it's unbelievable :p .
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I play all my games with Blues; I'm not the greatest of gamers but I don't notice any issues with them. If you like the feel of the switch, then that's all that really matters.
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95% of my friends play CS:GO with MX Blues. I personally prefer Topre switches on a HHKB Pro 2 or a board with MX Reds, mostly cause the sound of MX Blues would drive my parents crazy. Playing with MX Clears isn't bad either being that it pretty much cushions every key press, so it relieves some stress on your hand. HHKB Pro 2 and my Leopold FC660M are a perfect size though being that they are reduced. Makes those turns and tracking so much easier...especially on my small desk.
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Gaming with a Model M's not THAT bad, and rollover is so overhyped it's unbelievable :p .
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Well, I hit at least three keys at a time in CSGO, so I could totally see it being an issue...
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Blues are by no means the best choice but I've done a fair bit of CS GO on them. I much prefer Browns for this game though, and Reds have been pretty good too.
And yes, WarOwl uses Blues and to be honest, it's really quite annoying to listen to (as much as I love WarOwl). Blues annoy people in mic chat pretty easily. The sound of gaming on blues is different than typing since the presses are very sporadic time-wise.
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Personally I use blues for gaming and I really like them. I first had reds and did not like the linear switch because it gave no feedback as to when I would actually press the key. With blue I know when I'm pressing the key due to the bump and the audible click. My hands can get kind of shaky when I play as well and so the resistance helps stop me from accidentally press a key. If your worried about the double pressing the key you will still be able to do it fast. Others have mentioned the clicking can be loud when talking to others depending on your mic setup.
Games I play are CS:GO, Dota 2, and TF2 (not so much anymore, though I have 1500+ hours in that game.) also other games on the side.
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No one is saying you can't game with blues, just that you may have a harder time or need to compensate for it. Often this happens without you even knowing. I've played Battlefield and more with blues, reds, rubber domes, and buckling spring. I just prefer a more direct connection/feel.
Most also claim wireless mice are useless for gaming, yet it's all I've used for years. Can I tell the difference, yes, but I deal with it because cord drag is more annoying for me. Plus, not only are there tricks to help reduce (put the sensor close), but wireless mice have come a long way.
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I have used many switches for gaming - MX blues, greens, blacks, reds, Topre, and buckling spring.
There is very little difference between them to me.
A couple of times I've encountered the MX blue/green situation of not lifting the key up far enough to reset the switch, but for the most part I've had no problems at all.
As a preference I'd probably go for blacks - they are much quieter, and I generally prefer stiffer switches.
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Personally, I enjoy linear switches for FPS gaming. Having said that, I believe you will become accustomed to any keyboard over time.
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No switch will hold you back for gaming. Just use whatever you like the feel of best.
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I use MX Blue, and they are great for typing and starcraft 2, but i would pick mx red for FPS and race games.
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i'm not going to give you a long winded response on WHY, but i love blues for gaming. the click is great for stutter stepping around corners, IMO.
No switch will hold you back for gaming. Just use whatever you like the feel of best.
Pretty much this. I game with 55g topre nowadays.
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Blues for life.
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Look up "hysteresis" on deskthority wiki.
If you are new to MX, blue will work fine. If you have used linear in FPS, you will know linear is superior for FPS.
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If you are new to MX, blue will work fine. If you have used linear in FPS, you will know linear is superior for FPS.
Oh, come on. There's really no difference. I've used newer rubberdome, old rubberdome, blues, browns, blacks, and greens for FPS games and the only differences I've seen in performance is when I change mice or when I was using the keyboard with greens (so heavy compared to my browns... It basically sorted itself out in a couple of hours once I was used to them).
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horribad for double tapping (quick swapping), or basically any quick movement stuff like you'd be doing in csgo.
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I've done a great deal of testing all my keyboards with different types of games and I've found that for shooters, as long as you don't use extremely heavy or extremely tactile switches, any switch will do fine. Some other types of games, most notably racing games and fighting games, suffer much more from strong tactility and heavy switches. If you want to test whether you can get gaming fatigue on a board easily, play Super Meat Boy.
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I dislike the jig that MX blues do. I find it especially awkward in games. Most people don't seem to notice it though or maybe they like it.
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:blank:
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I wouldn't say it's the least important, but it's pretty unimportant.
Your switch choice isn't going to make you go from an average player to even the best on a server. It won't make you win games. That isn't to say it will not effect you at all, but the difference is minor, comfort will have a larger effect over a long game for most people.
So, why do some have strong feelings and others not?
Remember your first time trying to drive a car, you probably floored it then slammed on the brakes the first few times, same idea, but on a microscopic level. Most people have never had to use their hands and fingers in such a way, we are used to gripping, pushing, tapping, etc., not trying to move something a small amount in a precise movement. The same happens to an even more extreme on keyboards, you are very used to just pushing until something stops.
Some people have extreme muscle memory and can type without bottoming reds (I can't) and some of us have the fine motor skills to type on Jailhoused Blues without bottoming out even with o-rings to limit travel to half the distance a normal Cherry MX travels. All of this needs to be learned and most picked it up out of necessity or repetition. Do you need it to get the most out of a mechanical keyboard, absolutely not, but for those who have those skills, while we can/do and will adapt, the right switch means the difference between frustration and comfort There are also some people who may have these skills (and are lucky enough?) that it doesn't bother them at all no matter what they use. In almost all my hobbies, I've never been able to do that, once I zero in on what I like, I get hyper focused on it and get frustrated with something different.
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This is dragging out like crazy.
Any switch works, but if you go from linear -> clicky, it will feel sluggish. No going around it. doesn't mean you won't get used to it or won't be as good. Any switch is usable.
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i would use Cherry Blue for Fighting games not FPS
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It's bad for gaming if you don't like them. But it's good for gaming if you like them
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I use blues for gaming and find that the tactile means that I don't bottom at all, this makes me light on my fingers which I believe is advantageous.
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I used clicky mechanicals back in my Quake, and Team Fortress days, and more recently as well (Haven't played a CS game in years, but have played other MMOs). It's all about what you're used to. I've never found linear switches to be superior, but I slam my keys with authority when I'm gaming, so its all about what switches don't make my hand tired.
I'm a pretty light typist, but I've never been able to break the habit of hammering my keys when I game.
tl;dr It matters how you use the board for different switches to have any kind of 'advantage'.
That said, these discussions remind me of cycling. "If I remove 10 grams off my bike, I'll be faster!" Mathematically, this is correct. In the real world, nobody is going to notice the difference. From a performance perspective that is.