geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: maroder on Tue, 04 August 2015, 12:40:47
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Hi,
I am currently using MX-Clears and MX-Blacks and would like a new "experience". So I am planing on getting a Topre Realforce. As this is quite a bit of money, I would like to know if anyone got a Topre and is willing to share their experience.
Is it really worth the money? How loud is the spacebar and enter key on the Realforce? This is the only thing that currently annoys me on my Cherry switches. My Clears have a loud spacebar, the Blacks have a rattly Enter key - I should swap the switches for these keys :D
Cheers
Maroder
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get a used one. they're great.
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Get a 55g and never look back..
From my experience (With the HHKB, but have tried the realforce) the spacebar has a nice thunk sound, whilst still pretty quiet and the enter key is pretty quiet as well.
AND YES, it's totally worth the money...
So far all the switches that I have tried haven't been able to match the love I have for topre. It's smooth, has a soft bottom out, and a glorious sound to boot.
But again 55g or bust. :cool:
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Get a 55g and never look back..
Hm, ok I was planing on getting the 45g, as this is the only one available with the Layout in ISO/German.
45g not worth it then?
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Have two realforces (55g and variable). IMO value is between $150-180 USD. At 200+ you are paying for hype and label.
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Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber. :thumb:
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Get a 55g and never look back..
Hm, ok I was planing on getting the 45g, as this is the only one available with the Layout in ISO/German.
45g not worth it then?
Oh my bad, I didn't stop to think that you can't use EK.
But anyways 45g is fine, I'm just partial to 55g. :)
I'm sure you'll be fine with 45g, but when available, I recommend 55g because I feel the extra tactility adds to the switch.
You might be able to find a used one or 55g on Desk Thority, as they are a more international community vs Geekhacks more NA based community. Their classifieds might be more plentiful with international people, or they might know other vendors for the EU.
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Have two realforces (55g and variable). IMO value is between $150-180 USD. At 200+ you are paying for hype and label.
So something like a Novatouch would be in the right price range then, or specifically the realforces are worth $150-180?
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I've used both 45g and 55g Topre, and while I enjoy both, my preference certainly goes to the 55g.
I should also mention, since nobody else has commented on it, that on my Realforce 87UB there is a slight rattle to the spacebar, leading to it being a little louder than the regular keys.
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I've used both 45g and 55g Topre, and while I enjoy both, my preference certainly goes to the 55g.
I should also mention, since nobody else has commented on it, that on my Realforce 87UB there is a slight rattle to the spacebar, leading to it being a little louder than the regular keys.
I do not mind a little rattle. As long as its not completely loose and rattling so bad, that you have the feeling it will fall off any minute :D
Oh my bad, I didn't stop to think that you can't use EK.
But anyways 45g is fine, I'm just partial to 55g. :)
I'm sure you'll be fine with 45g, but when available, I recommend 55g because I feel the extra tactility adds to the switch.
You might be able to find a used one or 55g on Desk Thority, as they are a more international community vs Geekhacks more NA based community. Their classifieds might be more plentiful with international people, or they might know other vendors for the EU.
Sadly the ISO countries are somewhat neglected regarding Topre keyboards. The Keyboard Company in GB is the only shop in Europe I could find which has the Realforce produced exclusively with German layout. I Unfortunately they are not planing on getting 55g in the near future. But I'll check with Deskthority anyway. Maybe I am lucky :)
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I love my 55g real force. great board! I threw it in a digilog case and it is now my daily driver.
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Yes, my RF87UB boards were worth it, at least to me. I have both the 45g and 55g models, and I like both of them. I have not tried the variable-weight RF, but I anticipate that I would not like it, because I believe that the 30g keys would be too light for me.
Among Topre-switch boards, I've tried the Leopold FC660C, RF87UB 45g and 55g, and HHKB Pro 2. My favorite form factor and layout is that of the HHKB Pro 2, but I find the sound and feel of the RF to be more refined. I like the sound and feel of the FC660C, but I didn't like the keycaps that were available at the time, and I prefer either the TKL form factor/layout of the RF87U or the form factor/layout of the HHKB.
I've also tried the CM Novatouch, which has hybrid Topre switches with stems compatible with Cherry mx keycaps. I liked it the least of the Topre-switch boards I've tried, but I think with the addition of silencing rings it would be a contender. Plus it has the added benefit of access to a universe of keycap colors, styles, and materials.
Currently, my daily driver is a black HHKB Pro 2 modded with 55g domes from an RF, silencing rings, and new Topre keycaps (blue alphas, blank black mods, red Esc, and red Fn). If I didn't like the 60% form factor and HHKB layout so much, I would be using an RF87U on a more regular basis.
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I love my hipro 45g keyboard and my HHKB
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i've still never used a 55g. i knew i liked 45g as soon as i tried it (first rf then hhkb).
if you are a deskthority member, you can sign up for the real force test tour and try before you buy :) there are also quite a few german members on DT. if you find yourself in holland let me know and you can try my hhkb as well!
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i've still never used a 55g. i knew i liked 45g as soon as i tried it (first rf then hhkb).
if you are a deskthority member, you can sign up for the real force test tour and try before you buy :) there are also quite a few german members on DT. if you find yourself in holland let me know and you can try my hhkb as well!
Thank you for the offer mate. I will certainly join Deskthority and give the Realforce a try then before buying it :)
OT: Allright! I just fixed the rattling spacebar on my Pok3r by turning it around 180°. Now the spacebar is much more comfortable to use and this little bugger is near perfect. Maybe this information helps someone with a rattling spacebar. :thumb:
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i've still never used a 55g. i knew i liked 45g as soon as i tried it (first rf then hhkb).
if you are a deskthority member, you can sign up for the real force test tour and try before you buy :) there are also quite a few german members on DT. if you find yourself in holland let me know and you can try my hhkb as well!
Thank you for the offer mate. I will certainly join Deskthority and give the Realforce a try then before buying it :)
OT: Allright! I just fixed the rattling spacebar on my Pok3r by turning it around 180°. Now the spacebar is much more comfortable to use and this little bugger is near perfect. Maybe this information helps someone with a rattling spacebar. :thumb:
Flipping the spacebar is always the best bet, no matter what the non-flippers on this forum say. ;)
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My Topre Realforce keyboard was the last one I bought (used), and I have to say it is my most favorite one, next to the IBM Model M. I have a 55g TKL Realforce, which produces a gorgeous THOCK or THUNK sound when bottoming out, and it is just satisfying to use it! It is personal preference if you like it of course, but chances are high you'll love it. Try the one at Deskthority of the Realforce Tour from member 002, it is a variable switch model though, but in general it is the same feeling. I also liked MX Clears, but love Topre much more.
(http://i.imgur.com/CaLZyIW.jpg)
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I've seen people that like it. It only favors those who have proper touch typing skills and further only those that have a preference for it
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I haven't heard of many who like it, maybe just for typing, but for anything else, not really..
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I had the silenced variable weight 87U for a spell. There wasn't anything wrong with it, but I happen to prefer the uniformity and feel of the HHKB Type-S.
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I had the silenced variable weight 87U for a spell. There wasn't anything wrong with it, but I happen to prefer the uniformity and feel of the HHKB Type-S.
Uniformity is definitely important to me too. I have to have the exact same weighting and switch type across the entire board.
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Thanks. I was interested in getting the 104U on EK for the sole purpose of using the caps on the 87U and numpad, but since they have the variable version only I wasn't sure whether to keep it in the end, at least to say I tried it.
Since I do about 95% typing and 5% gaming on the computer which I'll be using it, it sounds pretty inviting.
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Thanks. I was interested in getting the 104U on EK for the sole purpose of using the caps on the 87U and numpad, but since they have the variable version only I wasn't sure whether to keep it in the end, at least to say I tried it.
Since I do about 95% typing and 5% gaming on the computer which I'll be using it, it sounds pretty inviting.
If you have perfect touch typing abilities then sure, why not?
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The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one. The feel is not consistent over time. At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages. I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable. The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar. Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one. Yes you can swap sliders. **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock. They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development. They really have no impetus to improve, either. Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan. EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny. They're simply not all that interested. If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on. There are plenty more logical choices at this time.
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The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one. The feel is not consistent over time. At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages. I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable.
I've never seen this complaint from anyone else here. I've logged a fair amount of time on my two Topre boards and they feel the same as ever.
The keycaps are obviously an issue
How so? The HHKB and Realforce come with great keycaps stock. The spacebar is hardly the terrible problem that you make it out to be either.
**** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.
How many hundreds upon hundreds of dollars do some people spend on every f*ing new set of keycaps they "need" or every custom switch combo they have to try. Paying $200 for a quality mechanical keyboard is hardly "insane". Please.
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The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one. The feel is not consistent over time. At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages. I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable.
I've never seen this complaint from anyone else here. I've logged a fair amount of time on my two Topre boards and they feel the same as ever.
I've seen the issue mentioned before, and it's present on the HHKB as well. It's good you haven't come across it, but I'm not sure what your usage is like.
The keycaps are obviously an issue
How so? The HHKB and Realforce come with great keycaps stock. The spacebar is hardly the terrible problem that you make it out to be either.
The material is great, but the legends are hardly visible on the black version (yes, I know it's due to the sublimation process' limitations), and the only keycap sets with a Topre stem are made by Topre themselves. Even the replacements are difficult to find, which somewhat defeats the purpose of buying a keyboard with replaceable keycaps in the first place. Of course the spacebar is an issue. Does it melt when you press it? No, but given the cost and considering the fact that all other competitors' offerings do not have a terribly mismatched spacebar of subpar material, I'd consider it a defect.
**** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock.
How many hundreds upon hundreds of dollars do some people spend on every f*ing new set of keycaps they "need" or every custom switch combo they have to try. Paying $200 for a quality mechanical keyboard is hardly "insane". Please.
Who cares? That's beside the point. Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it. If the Realforce was priced more competitively, it'd be worth holding on to a few of them. They're not the most modular / maintainable boards out there, but at least they'd be cheap!
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Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it.
This is pure opinion, like any other preference.
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I would take a guess that most people on this forum can touch type, so what exactly would be the problem with the legends? My black HHKB; even in low light levels is still visible enough to see it.
In my mind, both the realforce and HHKB are fine at their price points, the realforce is very good quality board with a good set of stock caps.
And guess what? If you don't fancy the black on black legends, there is always a white version for you...
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Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it.
This is pure opinion, like any other preference.
Well, simplify it a bit. What if the Realforce had MX switches? I think it would be difficult to argue it's worth the minimum 25% markup. I think Topre switches induce so much fanaticism it really tilts the scales for a lot of people. Anything can be worth any price for the right person, but certain aspects of that thing can be compared objectively. A modern assault rifle is superior to a musket, for example.
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Well, simplify it a bit. What if the Realforce had MX switches? I think it would be difficult to argue it's worth the minimum 25% markup. I think Topre switches induce so much fanaticism it really tilts the scales for a lot of people. Anything can be worth any price for the right person, but certain aspects of that thing can be compared objectively. A modern assault rifle is superior to a musket, for example.
If the RF had MX switches, it wouldn't be a RealForce. It wouldn't be a Topre, it would just be another MX mech board. The very fact that it doesn't have MX switches, and Topre instead, is enough to justify the price markup for some people. For others (like yourself I'm assuming), it's not.
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It's worth it.
The worst that could happen is you sell a lightly-used Realforce (which is easy to do) and lose a small amount of money, at the cost of knowing you don't like Topre. Again that is worst case scenario, most people including myself seem to love Topre.
Not much to lose, much to gain is how I look at it.
Good luck! :thumb:
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Considering tech specs alone, the keyboard is simply not worth the $200+ they're charging for it.
This is pure opinion, like any other preference.
Well, simplify it a bit. What if the Realforce had MX switches? I think it would be difficult to argue it's worth the minimum 25% markup. I think Topre switches induce so much fanaticism it really tilts the scales for a lot of people. Anything can be worth any price for the right person, but certain aspects of that thing can be compared objectively. A modern assault rifle is superior to a musket, for example.
I tend to agree with you that the hype surrounding Topre switches doesn't necessarily justify the reality, and that boards like my HHKB are hideously expensive, also that Topre doesn't seem to be terribly keen on innovating & growing its' market share which strikes me as a terrible shame.
After saying that I'm yet to try a switch more pleasant to type on. All the Cherry MX switches feel vastly inferior (to my fingers at least), buckling springs require too much actuation force for my taste, but I'm yet to try an Alps boards.
So I don't regret coughing up a significant amount for my HHKB as it gives me a pleasurable typing experience every day and has a brilliant key layout. Perhaps the board itself doesn't quite match the praise of some Topre fanatics but that sort of thing is common to a lot of luxury products, which is how I choose to categorize Topre keyboards.
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If you type a fair amount during a day, then the answer to your question--concerning the board being worth the price--is a resounding yes.
As others have pointed out, flipping the spacebar helps reduce the noise from it. When typing slowly--which I cannot do throughout the day--I can get-by without making almost any noise from the spacebar. I have not found the spacebar to have any particular rattle. But then again my board is quite new, so that may be the reason.
The enter key is not especially loud and I find it to be one of the most pleasant keys to press on the entire board, both in terms of tactility and sound. If you are too concerned about the noise, then you may want to consider purchasing a silenced Realforce.
By the way, do you want to buy it for gaming or typing?
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I do like my variable and the non-uniformity of keys is not really an issue for me. If anything, I find it to be more natural. So if you are going to use it 95% of the time for typing, then I highly recommend it.
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I like my HHKB - it's one of the few keyboards that I rotate in on a very regular basis.
I nearly didn't buy it, but I'm glad I did :)
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I'm in the same camp as you, buddy. Never tried a Topre board before, but I took a leap of faith and ordered a RF87U 55g from Massdrop.
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Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber. :thumb:
I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.
The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one. The feel is not consistent over time. At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages. I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable. The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar. Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one. Yes you can swap sliders. **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock. They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development. They really have no impetus to improve, either. Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan. EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny. They're simply not all that interested. If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on. There are plenty more logical choices at this time.
I disagree with so much of this
- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?
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Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber. :thumb:
I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.
The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one. The feel is not consistent over time. At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages. I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable. The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar. Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one. Yes you can swap sliders. **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock. They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development. They really have no impetus to improve, either. Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan. EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny. They're simply not all that interested. If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on. There are plenty more logical choices at this time.
I disagree with so much of this
- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?
This is why I hate Topre/MX discussions on this board, they (almost) always turn into people throwing their personal preferences in each other's teeth and getting progressively more and more argumentative. Don't try to refute personal preference/opinion with even more of the same, it never works.
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I've been using full size variable topre for months now. I really like it.
Can't say it's better or worse than all 45g or 55g but I'm still using it over those.
Thanks. I was interested in getting the 104U on EK for the sole purpose of using the caps on the 87U and numpad, but since they have the variable version only I wasn't sure whether to keep it in the end, at least to say I tried it.
Since I do about 95% typing and 5% gaming on the computer which I'll be using it, it sounds pretty inviting.
And just an FYI not sure what you mean about using the 104U caps on a number pad the 23U number pad has a different layout.
Unless you meant in place of the caps on the 87U that show the secondary number pad functions.
To the OP, so many things keyboard related you just have to experience. I've tried Topre a few times in the past and didn't care for it but tried it again after some time and am still using it daily. So my own preferences have changed over time.
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Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber. :thumb:
I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.
The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one. The feel is not consistent over time. At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages. I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable. The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar. Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one. Yes you can swap sliders. **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock. They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development. They really have no impetus to improve, either. Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan. EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny. They're simply not all that interested. If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on. There are plenty more logical choices at this time.
I disagree with so much of this
- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?
This is why I hate Topre/MX discussions on this board, they (almost) always turn into people throwing their personal preferences in each other's teeth and getting progressively more and more argumentative. Don't try to refute personal preference/opinion with even more of the same, it never works.
I'm not refuting personal preference, just stating some facts about the realforce which apparently is heinous around here, lol. You're using your opinion as a tool for debate and belittling any sort of discussion about the features of the keyboard.
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Yes, they are worth it, IMO. Either 45g or 55g feel great to me. Get a used one and enjoy oneness with cup rubber. :thumb:
I too have both a 45g and a 55g Realforce and they are both phenomenal boards. Lately I've been typing on the 45g and have been really enjoying it, its slightly lighter and feels a little more "poppy" to me. I dont think you could go wrong getting either one honestly. I have a variable weight Topre board arriving today and I'm not sure if I'm going to like it or not, but I can tell you for a fact that I've barely touched any of my MX boards since getting my other Realforces. I've had two people who weren't even into keyboards before type on my 55g and they liked it so much they bought one same day.
The Realforce is a nice keyboard, but there are so so many compromises you make when purchasing one. The feel is not consistent over time. At the end of the day, it's silicone rubber, and that material has its advantages/disadvantages. I've seen mushiness rear its ugly head with roughly a year's worth of heavy use. The switches are inherently unmaintainable. The keycaps are obviously an issue, and then there's the spacebar. Yes you can join the GB on Massdrop for a PBT one. Yes you can swap sliders. **** all that, the costs are insane, and you've already paid $200+ for the board stock. They're great to try, but right now Topre are just resting on their laurels in terms of development. They really have no impetus to improve, either. Topre's Realforce sales are almost exclusively centered in Japan. EK can reaffirm that, the market overseas is tiny. They're simply not all that interested. If I were you, I'd save your money and wait to see if what was shown at CES 2015 actually fizzles out into something worth spending money on. There are plenty more logical choices at this time.
I disagree with so much of this
- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?
I don't think you fully read the post. The mention of Japan sales was relevant to the fact that they're not competing on a global scale, and therefore have no impetus to improve their offerings to contend with other manufacturers. It does appear they are showing some promise though, if anything from CES 2015 ends up becoming.
Your other points are just excuses being made for a company because you like its product so much. Maybe the mismatched space bar and non-MX compatible sliders are not an issue to you? Doesn't really matter, they're still aspects of the keyboard that are inferior to other keyboards. You "disagree so much" with this because your opinion is "this keyboard is the best and I will ignore or make trivial any of its technical shortcomings". All I'm saying, is that the board has its flaws, where it definitely shouldn't (given the price point).
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Crap. I didn't realize the numpad uses a different layout than the 104U. Will probably get the TKL version, then. Variable!
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Haha, didn't know this topic was so charged with emotions.Thank you for the lively discussion.
I like my MX-Keyboards very much, but I think the Topre could complete the typing experience for me. But I suppose it's all personal preference and depends very much on the typing style and intended usage purpose. Can't wait to try one to see what the fuss is all about :)
By the way, do you want to buy it for gaming or typing?
I guess my usage would be
20 % Gaming
20 % Typing, Coding
60 % Browsing, mailing, chatting and other casual stuff
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Hey guys, just want to summarize my whole point here. Everyone that loves Topre switches *deserves* a better keyboard than the Realforce, for that price. Look at what Ducky/Vortex are offering. If the Ducky Shine series had Topre switches, it'd be game, set, match. These "premium" switches are being thrown into an afterthought of a keyboard. Even so, it's hard to say the switches justify their premium, solely in terms of longevity and portability (not feel).
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I disagree with so much of this
- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?
I'm not refuting personal preference, just stating some facts opinions about the realforce which apparently is heinous around here, lol. You're using your opinion as a tool for debate and belittling any sort of discussion about the features of the keyboard.
Took the liberty of highlighting some opinions there.
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I disagree with so much of this
- Realforce PBT keys are some of the best keys I've ever touched. There is almost universal praise for the PBT keys that come on on pretty much all Topre boards. Black legends on black keys is sexy as ****, if you need to see the legends get a white one instead.
- There are numerous people out there that have been using Topre domes for years that report almost no change in feel. My 55g has been in heavy use at work for over 6 months now and the domes feel identical to the day it arrived. Look at all the people restoring old HHKBs and their reports about the domes feeling almost identical to a new board.
- What are you talking about "swapping sliders"? The normal sliders are just fine, if you want MX compatibility get a Novatouch, or if you want silenced get a Type-S.
- Space bar is a weak point but I would hardly call it a defect. Replacement ABS spacebars can be had for less than $5 and there was a group buy that just finished for thousands of PBT space bars that will likely go for $10-15 a piece. It should be relatively easy to pick one of those up.
- How exactly is it a negative or a even a concern that their sales are almost entirely in Japan? What relevance does that have to literally anything other than just being anecdotal information?
I'm not refuting personal preference, just stating some facts opinions about the realforce which apparently is heinous around here, lol. You're using your opinion as a tool for debate and belittling any sort of discussion about the features of the keyboard.
Took the liberty of highlighting some opinions there.
Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?
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Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?
Those things are fact, yes. That's not what I was indicating. I was highlighting things you said that are opinions (some of them about space bar and keycap material).
For the record I absolutely adore RealForce keyboards, and personally find them much more superior to MX-based boards, but I still don't think we should be having arguments based on opinion. If somebody doesn't like Topre/RF/HHKB/Whatever, no need to try to convince them otherwise.
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My flowchart:
MassDrop release a limited 104 55g Realforce w/ PBT space bar for a reasonable price? --> Yes
|
|
v
No
Buy a Royal Kludge 930-87/104 55g instead.
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My flowchart:
MassDrop release a limited 104 55g Realforce w/ PBT space bar for a reasonable price? --> Yes
|
|
v
No
Buy a Royal Kludge 930-87/104 55g instead.
I can't shake the desire to want to try the royal kludge.
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I can't shake the desire to want to try the royal kludge.
It might not feel quite as solid as a Realforce, but I'd take the Kludge over it because of MX keycap compatibility out of the box and available backlighting. If it had per-key lighting control and the ability to create custom profiles, a la the Corsair and Razer RGB keyboards, I would still be using it today.
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I use one as my daily driver at work and am very happy with it. It's all personal preference. I enjoy the feeling that 55g Topre domes give on the rebound, plate-mounted switches, and the under-stated design (most people I work with think it's an old, cheap keyboard).
Some non-anecdotal, objective facts:
- Quality construction and components (teardown (http://imgur.com/a/eI8Il))
- Thick PBT caps in a Cherry-ish profile
- ABS spacebar
- Plate-mounted Topre switches in a few weights
- Non-removable (re-routable to three points on the rear) cable
- Swappable Ctrl & Caps Lock keys and caps
- TKL and ten-key sizes
+ facts about Topre switches (more or less not feasible to type without bottoming out, keycaps are expensive)
If that interests you, then get one. You have to try it and find out if it's worth it to you (or if any of the above features are worth the price premium).
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Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?
Stating the space bar is made of ABS is a fact. Whether there is an issue with it being like that is an OPINION. Outside of the Massdrop PBT space bar offer, you don't have an option.
Keycap compatibility - This means nothing. Topre is not compatible with MX which is not compatible with ALPS which is not compatible with Buckling Spring..One thing that IS a fact is that there are more MX Keycap options available out there. That has nothing to do with the value of the keyboard. Novatouch sliders are a great idea, does that make it better than RF? Not at all. That would be your OPINION.
Can rubber degrade? Sure..are we seeing it happen? No...metal can corrode as well...Sliders that rely on friction can wear...You haven't even brought up the non contact portion of a Topre switch board increases reliability and longevity. Is the life expectancy of a Topre board less than Cherry MX? So far it doesn't seem like it...How many people are coming on complaining about a key that no longer works on their Topre board? To be honest, I'm not sure I even recall someone having an issue...
I get it..you don't like Topre..that's ok..you don't have to like everything. It is ok for other people to like something you don't. You don't see the same value in it they do and your mind is trying to come up with reasons why those people are illogically not coming to the same conclusion of your obviously superior mind.
So us stupid people that like Topre will just have to live in our ignorance. I actually Cherry, Topre and Alps...so I guess I am somewhat redeemable.
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It's worthy to bring up, that there are quite old topre boards, and there are still people using them today and reporting the same feeling as their newer topre boards.
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Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?
Stating the space bar is made of ABS is a fact. Whether there is an issue with it being like that is an OPINION. Outside of the Massdrop PBT space bar offer, you don't have an option.
Keycap compatibility - This means nothing. Topre is not compatible with MX which is not compatible with ALPS which is not compatible with Buckling Spring..One thing that IS a fact is that there are more MX Keycap options available out there. That has nothing to do with the value of the keyboard. Novatouch sliders are a great idea, does that make it better than RF? Not at all. That would be your OPINION.
Can rubber degrade? Sure..are we seeing it happen? No...metal can corrode as well...Sliders that rely on friction can wear...You haven't even brought up the non contact portion of a Topre switch board increases reliability and longevity. Is the life expectancy of a Topre board less than Cherry MX? So far it doesn't seem like it...How many people are coming on complaining about a key that no longer works on their Topre board? To be honest, I'm not sure I even recall someone having an issue...
I get it..you don't like Topre..that's ok..you don't have to like everything. It is ok for other people to like something you don't. You don't see the same value in it they do and your mind is trying to come up with reasons why those people are illogically not coming to the same conclusion of your obviously superior mind.
So us stupid people that like Topre will just have to live in our ignorance. I actually Cherry, Topre and Alps...so I guess I am somewhat redeemable.
It really is interesting how many people are turning this into something opinionative / insulting. I am not insulting anyone's preferences at all. I really think the point I'm trying to make here is being missed.
Alright, the spacebar. So that's personal preference? Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue? Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior. The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set. That's just a fact, no opinions here.
Keycap compatibility. Does it matter? To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way. The fact is it's a measurable attribute. This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures. Maybe you prefer less compatibility? Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card. This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets. That's the meat of it. You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.
Cup rubber. Sure, every switch takes some wear. I'm not even claiming they've had failures. I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better. I'm just saying, they're not perfect.
Now you can ignore all of those things, of course. You might buy the keyboard because you like the way the indicator LEDs look. That's totally fine, but it doesn't change the attributes of the keyboard.
It's just, when someone asks the question: "Is a Topre Realforce worth it?" I really wish I could say yes, but I have to say "Is it worth it to you? Hell, I have no idea, you tell me. Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately". I can't really offer anything beyond that. Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.
I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there. We need more Topre options. We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade. I'd love to see some custom Topres, but if I had to guess, their MOQ is probably insane and could only be handled by a large company that sells in brick-and-mortar locations.
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Alright, the spacebar. So that's personal preference? Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue? Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior. The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set. That's just a fact, no opinions here.
Absolutely 100% NOT a fact. You feel PBT is superior, that is not a fact. *I* think PBT is superior, that still doesn't make it a fact. Would I love to see the ABS Spacebar PBT? Of course. It being superior is still NOT a fact. The only fact is the space bar is made of ABS. Some additional arguments about the keycaps all of which are not facts...What is GMK made out of? ABS. Comparing stock keycaps from a RF vs. any other keyboard out there..are there any better? I don't think so..not when you consider the overall quality. Not just of the material but the printing. But that is my opinion, not a fact.
Keycap compatibility. Does it matter? To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way. The fact is it's a measurable attribute. This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures. Maybe you prefer less compatibility? Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card. This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets. That's the meat of it. You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.
It is a different type of switch. By your assessment, every keyboard switch should be compatible with MX. If you want to say MX has more sets available, that is a fact..but everyone buying Topre knows it isn't MX. That isn't for them to change their slider to be like MX. That is what you want. That isn't a market factor at all.
Cup rubber. Sure, every switch takes some wear. I'm not even claiming they've had failures. I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better. The gold conical spring is a much less probable point of failure, I think. I'm just saying, they're not perfect.
Plenty of people have not seen them change at all..some people have. I have a 7 year old Topre, it feels perfectly fine. Did you know sliders on MX wear because of friction? So you feel they're not perfect (opinion), but what switch is? (which is your opinion). People can't even agree on which MX switch is perfect...
Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately". I can't really offer anything beyond that. Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.
Again, your opinion. You're trying to make that out as a fact. You really do believe that is fact..and it isn't.
I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there. We need more Topre options. We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade.
The price is what the price is. Would I like to see more options? Sure...there have been some recently....You want a lower end Topre, Type Heaven is for you...You want MX Compatibility? Some people love the Novatouch and some don't. You want a 60% or close to? HHKB or 660c. Is the selection as broad as MX? Of course not..is that the company shafting us? Not at all. But to address the "value" question..how much is a high quality set of PBT Dye Subs? 80-100? So take that off of the cost of a RF (lets just say 230). 130-150 for a quality keyboard with Topre switches that are generally more reliable than MX (I think they're actually far more reliable but lets just say). Is that really a crazy price? Look at how much people are paying for keyboards that come with junk stock keycaps that they can barely sell for 10 dollars and then they have to go, buy another set and replace them. But all that is opinion.
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Space bar material is fact, keycap compatibility is fact. I don't know if you haven't had your morning Java yet or...?
Stating the space bar is made of ABS is a fact. Whether there is an issue with it being like that is an OPINION. Outside of the Massdrop PBT space bar offer, you don't have an option.
Keycap compatibility - This means nothing. Topre is not compatible with MX which is not compatible with ALPS which is not compatible with Buckling Spring..One thing that IS a fact is that there are more MX Keycap options available out there. That has nothing to do with the value of the keyboard. Novatouch sliders are a great idea, does that make it better than RF? Not at all. That would be your OPINION.
Can rubber degrade? Sure..are we seeing it happen? No...metal can corrode as well...Sliders that rely on friction can wear...You haven't even brought up the non contact portion of a Topre switch board increases reliability and longevity. Is the life expectancy of a Topre board less than Cherry MX? So far it doesn't seem like it...How many people are coming on complaining about a key that no longer works on their Topre board? To be honest, I'm not sure I even recall someone having an issue...
I get it..you don't like Topre..that's ok..you don't have to like everything. It is ok for other people to like something you don't. You don't see the same value in it they do and your mind is trying to come up with reasons why those people are illogically not coming to the same conclusion of your obviously superior mind.
So us stupid people that like Topre will just have to live in our ignorance. I actually Cherry, Topre and Alps...so I guess I am somewhat redeemable.
It really is interesting how many people are turning this into something opinionative / insulting. I am not insulting anyone's preferences at all. I really think the point I'm trying to make here is being missed.
Alright, the spacebar. So that's personal preference? Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue? Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior. The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set. That's just a fact, no opinions here.
Keycap compatibility. Does it matter? To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way. The fact is it's a measurable attribute. This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures. Maybe you prefer less compatibility? Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card. This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets. That's the meat of it. You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.
Cup rubber. Sure, every switch takes some wear. I'm not even claiming they've had failures. I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better. I'm just saying, they're not perfect.
Now you can ignore all of those things, of course. You might buy the keyboard because you like the way the indicator LEDs look. That's totally fine, but it doesn't change the attributes of the keyboard.
It's just, when someone asks the question: "Is a Topre Realforce worth it?" I really wish I could say yes, but I have to say "Is it worth it to you? Hell, I have no idea, you tell me. Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately". I can't really offer anything beyond that. Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.
I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there. We need more Topre options. We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade. I'd love to see some custom Topres, but if I had to guess, their MOQ is probably insane and could only be handled by a large company that sells in brick-and-mortar locations.
Lol tldr
I'll assume its a rant. Why are you trying to manage other people's money and preferences lol?
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Alright, the spacebar. So that's personal preference? Having a key of lesser material as the spacebar is not an issue? Maybe it isn't for you, but it is an aspect of the keyboard that IS technically inferior. The longevity of that keycap set is not the same as a full PBT set. That's just a fact, no opinions here.
Absolutely 100% NOT a fact. You feel PBT is superior, that is not a fact. *I* think PBT is superior, that still doesn't make it a fact. Would I love to see the ABS Spacebar PBT? Of course. It being superior is still NOT a fact. The only fact is the space bar is made of ABS. Some additional arguments about the keycaps all of which are not facts...What is GMK made out of? ABS. Comparing stock keycaps from a RF vs. any other keyboard out there..are there any better? I don't think so..not when you consider the overall quality. Not just of the material but the printing. But that is my opinion, not a fact.
Keycap compatibility. Does it matter? To me, yes, to you, no, doesn't mean squash either way. The fact is it's a measurable attribute. This keyboard is not compatible with a huge keycap format, the same way a piece of software is not compatible on some processor architectures. Maybe you prefer less compatibility? Ok, that's fine, but it doesn't even out the score card. This keyboard is simply compatible with a lower number of keycap sets. That's the meat of it. You can ignore that if you want, that's fine, but it's still a -1 for the Realforce.
It is a different type of switch. By your assessment, every keyboard switch should be compatible with MX. If you want to say MX has more sets available, that is a fact..but everyone buying Topre knows it isn't MX. That isn't for them to change their slider to be like MX. That is what you want. That isn't a market factor at all.
Cup rubber. Sure, every switch takes some wear. I'm not even claiming they've had failures. I'm saying the feel of the rubber does change after some heavy use, and not for the better. The gold conical spring is a much less probable point of failure, I think. I'm just saying, they're not perfect.
Plenty of people have not seen them change at all..some people have. I have a 7 year old Topre, it feels perfectly fine. Did you know sliders on MX wear because of friction? So you feel they're not perfect (opinion), but what switch is? (which is your opinion). People can't even agree on which MX switch is perfect...
Technically-speaking, it's not, but you don't have much choice when it comes to Topre, unfortunately". I can't really offer anything beyond that. Whether or not the keyboard is worth the cost to the OP is entirely up to him, but if you compare tech specs alone, the Realforce does not come out on top. For most people, it comes down to the fact that there are so few Topre boards out there to choose from, the Realforce wins by default.
Again, your opinion. You're trying to make that out as a fact. You really do believe that is fact..and it isn't.
I know I'm playing devil's advocate, but it just needs to be thrown out there. We need more Topre options. We're all getting shafted paying these prices for a keyboard that's been almost completely unchanged for over a decade.
The price is what the price is. Would I like to see more options? Sure...there have been some recently....You want a lower end Topre, Type Heaven is for you...You want MX Compatibility? Some people love the Novatouch and some don't. You want a 60% or close to? HHKB or 660c. Is the selection as broad as MX? Of course not..is that the company shafting us? Not at all. But to address the "value" question..how much is a high quality set of PBT Dye Subs? 80-100? So take that off of the cost of a RF (lets just say 230). 130-150 for a quality keyboard with Topre switches that are generally more reliable than MX (I think they're actually far more reliable but lets just say). Is that really a crazy price? Look at how much people are paying for keyboards that come with junk stock keycaps that they can barely sell for 10 dollars and then they have to go, buy another set and replace them. But all that is opinion.
For the spacebar, this is not a great design choice. The ABS RF spacebar is thin and doesn't have a UV coating, it's very soft and prone to wear, especially near the edge.
As far as the price goes, you're considering costs of acquiring all of those items separately, not producing them as part of a keyboard. So that's not accurate.
Ah well.. I've said all I can say, I guess. Maybe this will also serve as an interest check for custom Topre boards. Keep all those ideas in your heads, guys! Everyone here is happy with their Realforces and doesn't want anything new, it seems, lol.
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[...]and the under-stated design (most people I work with think it's an old, cheap keyboard).
[...]Thick PBT caps in a Cherry-ish profile
[...]ABS spacebar
That's absolutely true, the understatement is a nice feature I really like. It is like a wolf in sheep's clothing. When I use it at work noone recognizes it as a special keyboard. My wife said it is the ugliest keyboard I have.
The caps are not thick PBT by the way, or at least mine are not thick PBT. But for stock caps they are great. No need to change, only if you like to have another color.
Regarding the space bar there is or was a group buy from matt3o with PBT spacebars for Topre, and I do think they are available more often in future from Massdrop. As I saw the colors are matching nicely!
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I'd love one if I could program it. Has anyone worked on a new controller for it?
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Hi,
I am currently using MX-Clears and MX-Blacks and would like a new "experience". So I am planing on getting a Topre Realforce. As this is quite a bit of money, I would like to know if anyone got a Topre and is willing to share their experience.
Is it really worth the money? How loud is the spacebar and enter key on the Realforce? This is the only thing that currently annoys me on my Cherry switches. My Clears have a loud spacebar, the Blacks have a rattly Enter key - I should swap the switches for these keys :D
Cheers
Maroder
Topre vs. MX is one of the long time disputative topics around here :))
You say you want a new experience - then go for it. Topre is definitely different to all MX switches.
Then try a buckling spring keyboard (Model M or Model F (that's another topic for debate)) afterwards :p
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For the spacebar, this is not a great design choice. The ABS RF spacebar is thin and doesn't have a UV coating, it's very soft and prone to wear, especially near the edge.
As far as the price goes, you're considering costs of acquiring all of those items separately, not producing them as part of a keyboard. So that's not accurate.
Ah well.. I've said all I can say, I guess. Maybe this will also serve as an interest check for custom Topre boards. Keep all those ideas in your heads, guys! Everyone here is happy with their Realforces and doesn't want anything new, it seems, lol.
For whatever reason, they don't make a PBT spacebar. Do I dislike that? Sure I do..I wish it was PBT...Is that going to be a consideration when buying Topre? No...what other options are available? All of them come with ABS. Does it make me think Topre keyboards are poor choices because it comes with an ABS spacebar? Hell no...
I'm sure producing them separately costs more..but again, what other options do you have and why do you think they feel they need to change anything?
Producing a custom Topre is not easy...Would I want one? Sure I would..but is it going to happen? Doubt it...I think people have talked about it for awhile..it just isn't easy to be able to get the parts to do it...
The closest we're going to get for awhile is replacing the case.
But even if you could...so you're going to produce your own set of keycaps including PBT spacebar? Assuming there wasn't the MD PBT Spacebar...the Min order was massive...
And it still doesn't change the things you dislike about it..the rubber domes you said would degrade? And the keycap compatibility? So you want a slider with MX...like the Novatouch...so why not get a Novatouch? Or work on a case for a Novatouch?
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i think RF boards are way overpriced,
but whether they are worth the price is simply a matter of how much enjoyment you get out of it.
as for me, yes. my fingers are in love with typing on topre. i don't regret buying.
but yeah.. i think that it's kind of a joke that the boards are not perfect. they should be, for the price.
no pbt spacebar? inconsistent legends? unacceptable.
the lack of possibilities for modding is also something to consider. (can't just go and get a bunch of new domes in the weighting you like most.)
not all boards come as type-s, and you can't just get the sliders somewhere. type-s boards are also way overpriced. (whether they are worth it is, again, personal.)
TLDR; overpriced, but can be worth the money, depending on personal enjoyment.
i don't regret buying my overpriced topre board, and i plan on getting 2 or 3 more. (yep.)
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Thanks for saving me the typing, Polymer :D
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For my money, I'm pretty psyched with my Type Heaven and don't consider it a massive step down from my HHKB. I probably wouldn't pony up for a Realforce because as far as I can tell the only real difference is the keycaps (I can live with ABS, thanks) and I guess a DIP switch that I'm also living quite well without.
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i think RF boards are way overpriced,
but whether they are worth the price is simply a matter of how much enjoyment you get out of it.
as for me, yes. my fingers are in love with typing on topre. i don't regret buying.
but yeah.. i think that it's kind of a joke that the boards are not perfect. they should be, for the price.
no pbt spacebar? inconsistent legends? unacceptable.
the lack of possibilities for modding is also something to consider. (can't just go and get a bunch of new domes in the weighting you like most.)
not all boards come as type-s, and you can't just get the sliders somewhere. type-s boards are also way overpriced. (whether they are worth it is, again, personal.)
TLDR; overpriced, but can be worth the money, depending on personal enjoyment.
i don't regret buying my overpriced topre board, and i plan on getting 2 or 3 more. (yep.)
I mean, the cherry springs that people use for mods are all custom made. Who's to say that someone dedicated enough wouldn't be able to reproduce topre parts in group buys?
My hipro topre uses a PBT spacebar and damn if it isn't the best keyboard I've ever typed on.
I'd only consider other things for a change of pace.
Also consider that perfect for a price doesn't exist.
Topre is in the middle of the pack for pricing between korean customs and just stock MX boards. I don't think they have a responsibility to be perfect for the price. They're not "super deluxe high end".
In headphones nobody expects the $500 Alpha dogs to be absolutely perfect. Sure, it sucks that there are certain flaws but honestly I don't see it that they should have made it "perfect" in the context of GH.
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Any Topre keyboard (Realforce or HHKB) is probably worth it if you clearly prefer Topre switches, as it brings you into endgame territory, and you will probably not spend much after that initial outlay..
Until you get restless once again, and go back to the realm of Cherry MX, this time entering a bottomless pit with all the individual parts, key sets, customs, and you will keep wondering what if you had just stopped at Topre, how much money and space you could have saved if the journey had simply ended there. This pretty much summarizes my keyboard journey.
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Any Topre keyboard (Realforce or HHKB) is probably worth it if you clearly prefer Topre switches, as it brings you into endgame territory, and you will probably not spend much after that initial outlay..
Until you get restless once again, and go back to the realm of Cherry MX, this time entering a bottomless pit with all the individual parts, key sets, customs, and you will keep wondering what if you had just stopped at Topre, how much money and space you could have saved if the journey had simply ended there. This pretty much summarizes my keyboard journey.
"How much money you would have saved"
*checks total cost for my HiPro tkl*
Nope, not seeing it xD
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Any Topre keyboard (Realforce or HHKB) is probably worth it if you clearly prefer Topre switches, as it brings you into endgame territory, and you will probably not spend much after that initial outlay..
Until you get restless once again, and go back to the realm of Cherry MX, this time entering a bottomless pit with all the individual parts, key sets, customs, and you will keep wondering what if you had just stopped at Topre, how much money and space you could have saved if the journey had simply ended there. This pretty much summarizes my keyboard journey.
Brilliant. On a per keyboard basis, my Cherry MX endeavors have been more expensive than any single RF board I've purchased.
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I really loved my 88ub 45g. One of the nicer keyboards Ive had, traded it for a HHKB but would have kept it if I didnt prefer my Shine 3 with Mx Reds to it as TKL keyboard. Mostly due to LED's and Mx switch making it easier to get set of caps. High quality caps on Realforce keyboards tho!
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55g RF is by far the best out of the box keyboards.
The switch is perfect. The size is great. The keycaps are nice. There is nothing you need to do to it (like in cherry's case) to have a great typing experience.
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55g RF is by far the best out of the box keyboards.
The switch is perfect. The size is great. The keycaps are nice. There is nothing you need to do to it (like in cherry's case) to have a great typing experience.
I tend to agree. After going through a great number of other keyboards, my all-time favorites include the RF87UB 55g. However, being a keyboard enthusiast (and one who likes legible legends on the alphanumeric keys), I couldn't resist changing the keycaps. Topre dye-sub PBT keycaps are (IMO) the finest to be found anywhere. Although the total package was expensive, it was well worth it to me.
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What a coincidence, I have the exact same question as I am also looking at the Realforce 87U :). Though, I had one question regarding keycaps:
I understand finding other keycaps for the RF isn't as easy as for MX keycaps, but which ones should I be on the lookout for when I do decide to change the ones on the RF? This is in fact the only reason that is currently withholding me to buy the RF since I won't be able to use all these good-looking keysets you guys are posting ;).
PS: sorry for hijacking the thread, I hope nobody minds...
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I think topre does have a far superior design.
Someone just said few post back that if ducky keyboard had topre switch it will be game set and match but that's the opposite to me.
The nova touch tkl is a topre board but i will never buy that it s just super ugly and generic. When i watch a topre board it remind me of dieter rams design. So it's not just a question of switch there it s a question of design to and where other keyboard pretty much all look like the same topre have a unique case
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So basically the main reasons for not buying this keyboard all come down to it's aesthetics. I recently got a RF87UB 55g, and before I purchased it I did plenty of research on the other topre boards. I was extremely close to buying an HHKB because of how nice it looks. I dont think ive seen it with a single keycap set (even stock) that didnt make my jaw drop. But im not buying a keyboard for looks; Im buying a keyboard because of the typing experience. And as far as the typing experience, I find that this board has completely lived up to my expectations. Im glad that I didnt go with a 45g topre model since the 55g is just perfect to me. Was the premium price of this board worth it? Absolutely. Sometimes you have to pay a little extra to get premium products, and imo this keyboard is definitely one of those things. Maybe, ironically enough, keyboard collectors with many different keyboards will have a harder time justifying the price tag, since they could probably buy two different keyboards for the price of this one.
The lack of compatibility with most custom keycap sets doesnt bother me, since the stock keys on the RF have top quality feels. Neither does the ABS spacebar. It feels fine, and personally I could care less if it develops a little shine. Is it actually a con? Maybe.
I guess aesthetics are far more important to some people than others, and imo if you significantly care about looks, you probably wont find the RF to be worth its high price tag.
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I am close to buying a 87U from keyboardco but the RF models they have, are described as "Black on Beige".
Is this really beige or is it actually white like the pictures on EK?
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It's a slight off white. I'd wanna say more towards the grey side than beige.
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My personal experience:
I first bought the 45g version, because I had been scared by EK's note about the 55g being very heavy and not recommended for those with arthritis (although it is not a condition that I suffer from).
My accuracy suffered terribly. Lots of typos, though I loved the Topre sound.
I later bought the 55g, and the accuracy problems disappeared. Incidentally, I don't find 55g to be terribly heavy. This is not to say the 45g Topre board is bad. It is probably just that I personally do better with heavier switches.
I do find that I don't care for the upstroke sound on my 55g board. I didn't think to compare my 45g board while I still had it. But that is just a matter of personal preference. If I could have bought a silenced Topre 55g board, that's what I would have done. To my knowledge, a factory board with those specs does not exist, however, and I am not physically equipped to do the mod.
Even so, it is a wonderful board to type on.
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I had the silenced variable weight 87U for a spell. There wasn't anything wrong with it, but I happen to prefer the uniformity and feel of the HHKB Type-S.
I have two Realforce boards, both variable force, and I love typing on them. I'm typing on a 87USW right now, and, for me, it's always a pleasure to use -- fast, comfortable and quiet.
I bought both of the Realforce boards used -- price was good, and both have worked like a charm.
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I bought both of the Realforce boards used -- price was good, and both have worked like a charm.
It is one of the under appreciated aspects of Topre...they're very reliable. More so than Cherry. Will the rubber eventually run down? I think so....but not anytime soon. Outside of that, there is very little that can go wrong on the board.
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I had a 55g uniform full size and I would say its definitely worth it. I paid ~$160 used and sold it for $170. I'll buy a 55g 87 key next time I see one in good shape for $150-165.
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Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.
After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.
I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.
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Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.
After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.
I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.
Unless you're using numbers a lot (heavy spreadsheet work), you'll get used to not having a numberpad and appreciate the better mouse position..
You are going to bottom out on Topre...There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottoming out but really, if 55g is too light for you, I'd imagine you'd be slamming bottom on any keyboard out there.
If you're resting your fingers on 55g Topre and accidentally pressing keys, you are REALLY resting hard...When I first got a variable Topre, the light (30g) keys were too light and I'd get the same type of thing..but the 30g keys really ARE light and have almost no tactility to them but to do that on 55g, I dunno...that's just weird to be honest.
I'd probably have to agree with you about getting used to Topre..in your case. You probably need very very heavy switches and you're not going to find that with Topre..
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With topre, it's quite hard not to bottom out, honestly I think everyones bottoms out on topre.
And 55g being too light? to the point where you can't rest your fingers on the keys? You must slam down on your board, I would say, too hard.
I can get like cherry mx reds, but topre 55g feels Much different weighting than 45 reds for example.
I would compare the switch weighting more akin to 65g-70g cherry switches or alps switches.
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With topre, it's quite hard not to bottom out, honestly I think everyones bottoms out on topre.
And 55g being too light? to the point where you can't rest your fingers on the keys? You must slam down on your board, I would say, too hard.
I can get like cherry mx reds, but topre 55g feels like a different weighting than 45 reds for example.
I would compare the switch weighting more akin to 65g-70g cherry switches or alps switches.
Rethinking, I wonder if that accidental press was a glitch. Like, if I received a defect or something. I tried it right after I did that accidental press, and I could've sworn I didn't press it because I would've felt it.
I wouldn't be totally surprised if I did get a defect, seeing as the case was slightly warped.
Gonna give it a week and reevaluate my conclusions.
That said, I still do think it's a bit light, but that's probably something I may be able to get used to.
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Definitely use it for a while, I was underwhelmed by mine at first too. It's hard to get a good idea of what to expect from a Topre switch until you've actually tried it. I think this causes a lot of people, myself included, to end up with skewed expectations. :thumb:
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Rethinking, I wonder if that accidental press was a glitch. Like, if I received a defect or something. I tried it right after I did that accidental press, and I could've sworn I didn't press it because I would've felt it.
I wouldn't be totally surprised if I did get a defect, seeing as the case was slightly warped.
Nope...that wouldn't do it..
The case has some give which is why you thought it was "warped". The way the case can turn might lead you to believe there is something wrong with it but there isn't..if you ever open it up and look and understand how Topre works, you'll see that isn't it..
What you did with the D key, I've done on 30g keys (a lot of people have). But either way, the way you're describing it sounds like you really slam hard and rest your fingers on it hard.
55g Topre is not like MX...it is all in the startup vs. lower weight to startup and gravity just doing it's thing..
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The day you first try topre, the feeling will be like.. so is this it? Just continue rotating between your Cherry and Topre boards, and you will slowly learn to appreciate it. For me, it took a couple of weeks, but now, I'm always looking forward to go to work as that's where my HHKB sits. I rotate between my Cherry linears at home and Topre in the office just to mix things up a bit.
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Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.
After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.
I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.
Unless you're using numbers a lot (heavy spreadsheet work), you'll get used to not having a numberpad and appreciate the better mouse position..
You are going to bottom out on Topre...There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottoming out but really, if 55g is too light for you, I'd imagine you'd be slamming bottom on any keyboard out there.
If you're resting your fingers on 55g Topre and accidentally pressing keys, you are REALLY resting hard...When I first got a variable Topre, the light (30g) keys were too light and I'd get the same type of thing..but the 30g keys really ARE light and have almost no tactility to them but to do that on 55g, I dunno...that's just weird to be honest.
I'd probably have to agree with you about getting used to Topre..in your case. You probably need very very heavy switches and you're not going to find that with Topre..
Uhh.. How about if you don't use the mouse a ton, and instead prefer some extra programmable keys? TKL is not that much smaller, honestly, and unless you're gaming a lot it's not much more ergonomic. Maybe if you have some sort of shoulder injury or other disability, it would be a more significant improvement but posture can do a hell of a lot more for your comfort than scooting your mouse over a couple of inches..
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The day you first try topre, the feeling will be like.. so is this it? Just continue rotating between your Cherry and Topre boards, and you will slowly learn to appreciate it. For me, it took a couple of weeks, but now, I'm always looking forward to go to work as that's where my HHKB sits. I rotate between my Cherry linears at home and Topre in the office just to mix things up a bit.
Same here, enjoy using Cherry's and Thorpies but they are exclusively for home use ONLY.
At work there is the common Dell or IBM membrane keyboards covered in grease and oil 24/7, hence bringing an expensive keyboard to my work would be insane plus it's not worth the hassle.
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Uhh.. How about if you don't use the mouse a ton, and instead prefer some extra programmable keys? TKL is not that much smaller, honestly, and unless you're gaming a lot it's not much more ergonomic. Maybe if you have some sort of shoulder injury or other disability, it would be a more significant improvement but posture can do a hell of a lot more for your comfort than scooting your mouse over a couple of inches..
If you have real needs for a full keyboard then go for it..There is nothing stopping you. But for most users, they don't need it, they're just used to it....Once you're used to not using a numberpad for basic stuff (which isn't any faster) you'll realize you didn't need it. Now if you do have specific reasons why you need it, then you need it.
And yes, it is a lot more ergonomic...If you have your keyboard centered (which you should) then that extra space, for a lot of people, is a big difference....It is only a few inches but it makes a significant difference..for regular use or for gaming. If it doesn't for you then that's fine...but I think for many users, the first thing they notice is how much better it feels to have their mouse closer...
What does posture have to do with it? I'm not comparing it to posture...
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Just got mine from Massdrop. It was a bit warped, but after a light bend it sits perfect.
After an hour of typing on it I'm...underwhelmed. It's slightly too light for me (55g), and, as my first TKL, I'm missing the numpad.
I bottom out, and the plate seems a bit too resistant to my fingers. Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.
I've heard it takes time to fully appreciate a Topre, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll be later from now.
Unless you're using numbers a lot (heavy spreadsheet work), you'll get used to not having a numberpad and appreciate the better mouse position..
You are going to bottom out on Topre...There is absolutely nothing wrong with bottoming out but really, if 55g is too light for you, I'd imagine you'd be slamming bottom on any keyboard out there.
If you're resting your fingers on 55g Topre and accidentally pressing keys, you are REALLY resting hard...When I first got a variable Topre, the light (30g) keys were too light and I'd get the same type of thing..but the 30g keys really ARE light and have almost no tactility to them but to do that on 55g, I dunno...that's just weird to be honest.
I'd probably have to agree with you about getting used to Topre..in your case. You probably need very very heavy switches and you're not going to find that with Topre..
Uhh.. How about if you don't use the mouse a ton, and instead prefer some extra programmable keys? TKL is not that much smaller, honestly, and unless you're gaming a lot it's not much more ergonomic. Maybe if you have some sort of shoulder injury or other disability, it would be a more significant improvement but posture can do a hell of a lot more for your comfort than scooting your mouse over a couple of inches..
Sorry, but I don't understand your statement. I can't tell if you were replying to me.
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Ill just say this and it is just my opinion. 55g Topre is amazing ! I liked it so much I have bought 3 of them the last one being an almost $400 10th AE edition. Wether its worth the price is going to depend solely on the person. 62g-67g Ergo Clears lubed properly are my favorite MX switch and its not really fair to compare the 2 because I love korean custom boards and that really tilts the decision of the ergos but 55g Topre is by far my favorite stock switch !!!!
The decision at the end of the day is going to be yours but as you can see by MOST people here's responses albeit expensive the Realforce boards are great quality and worth the premium IMHO !
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I am adding my voice to the Topre camp. I love the 55g Realforce at home and the HHKB at work. They are one of a kind. The HHKB, while is a lighter switch, is also one of a kind because of its mesmerizing thock. I believe everyone should try Topre at one point or the other. You will not regret it. Also, I sometimes rotate to an IBM SSK or a Matias Alps. Those are able to stand their ground too. And when I do get to the MX Blues or MX Clears, I feel that they are just too light - good for fun typing but definitely seeing myself going back to Topre most of the time.
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Also, I noticed at one point while I was hovering over some keys waiting to type while I fixed something with my mouse, I accidentally pressed and held "D" without realizing it until a couple of seconds later, which shows just how heavy my presses may be.
I thought I'd just give my thoughts on what may have happened. Maybe if your hands were away from your keyboard, and as you put your fingers back on the home row you accidentally pressed the key just beyond the actuation point, and didn't fully release. I tried this and if you weren't paying attention, it wouldn't be hard to go without noticing - particularly if you were used to heavier switches that actuate differently.
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What does posture have to do with it? I'm not comparing it to posture...
Posture is ergonomics. This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:
Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs? I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."
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Sorry, but I don't understand your statement. I can't tell if you were replying to me.
Ah, sorry, I was replying to the other guy
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What does posture have to do with it? I'm not comparing it to posture...
Posture is ergonomics. This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:
Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs? I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."
And yet, your comment is still irrelevant. If you have good/bad posture that doesn't change the relevance of the mouse position.
I agree with you 100% that posture is important. It just isn't important to the discussion about mouse position with TKL vs. Full Size.
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What does posture have to do with it? I'm not comparing it to posture...
Posture is ergonomics. This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:
Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs? I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."
And yet, your comment is still irrelevant. If you have good/bad posture that doesn't change the relevance of the mouse position.
I agree with you 100% that posture is important. It just isn't important to the discussion about mouse position with TKL vs. Full Size.
They're both ergonomic factors, one of which is more significant than the other. Are you lost, or confused?
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What does posture have to do with it? I'm not comparing it to posture...
Posture is ergonomics. This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:
Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs? I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."
And yet, your comment is still irrelevant. If you have good/bad posture that doesn't change the relevance of the mouse position.
I agree with you 100% that posture is important. It just isn't important to the discussion about mouse position with TKL vs. Full Size.
They're both ergonomic factors, one of which is more significant than the other. Are you lost, or confused?
And that has to do with the superiority of the mouse position with TKL how? That's right..it doesn't.
The fact that posture is more important ergonomically does not change the fact that your mouse is in a better position. The mouse being in a better position is still true even with poor posture or with good posture. It not being as significant as posture for ergonomics doesn't change that.
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What does posture have to do with it? I'm not comparing it to posture...
Posture is ergonomics. This reminds me of the old (ok, not so old) adage of the guy that visits his doctor:
Guy: "Doc, should I eat organic or cage-free eggs? I heard they can really help lower your risk of heart disease."
Doc: "You should stop smoking.."
And yet, your comment is still irrelevant. If you have good/bad posture that doesn't change the relevance of the mouse position.
I agree with you 100% that posture is important. It just isn't important to the discussion about mouse position with TKL vs. Full Size.
They're both ergonomic factors, one of which is more significant than the other. Are you lost, or confused?
And that has to do with the superiority of the mouse position with TKL how? That's right..it doesn't.
So you're lost, then. The discussion is (was) about TKL vs full size, and the compromises made when choosing either. In most cases, the minor ergonomic improvement a TKL offers is so insignificant it's not worth sacrificing a boatload of programmable keys for. If you really want to improve ergonomics at your desk, improve your posture, get a chair or get a palm rest or something. That's the gist of what I'm saying, reworded a bit. Don't be purposely dense just for the sake of
argument. We're talking about the same subject. Obviously your seating position is different than the mouse position on your desk. No ****. Think about what you were discussing in the first place.
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So you're lost, then. The discussion is (was) about TKL vs full size, and the compromises made when choosing either. In most cases, the minor ergonomic improvement a TKL offers is so insignificant it's not worth sacrificing a boatload of programmable keys for. If you really want to improve ergonomics at your desk, improve your posture, get a chair or get a palm rest or something. That's the gist of what I'm saying, reworded a bit. Don't be purposely dense just for the sake of
argument. We're talking about the same subject. Obviously your seating position is different than the mouse position on your desk. No ****. Think about what you were discussing in the first place.
You're saying there is a minor improvement with TKL..I think it is quite significant. You're saying you're sacrificing a boatload of programmable keys..for you...for everyone else, that is a complete non factor. It would be nice if you could actually think outside of your little world, I know it is hard but everyone has to grow up at some point...
What I find funny is you're saying..think about what you were discussing in the first place..which is TKL vs. Fullsize..and the position of the mouse is one of those things.....and YOU are bringing up posture.
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So you're lost, then. The discussion is (was) about TKL vs full size, and the compromises made when choosing either. In most cases, the minor ergonomic improvement a TKL offers is so insignificant it's not worth sacrificing a boatload of programmable keys for. If you really want to improve ergonomics at your desk, improve your posture, get a chair or get a palm rest or something. That's the gist of what I'm saying, reworded a bit. Don't be purposely dense just for the sake of
argument. We're talking about the same subject. Obviously your seating position is different than the mouse position on your desk. No ****. Think about what you were discussing in the first place.
You're saying there is a minor improvement with TKL..I think it is quite significant. You're saying you're sacrificing a boatload of programmable keys..for you...for everyone else, that is a complete non factor. It would be nice if you could actually think outside of your little world, I know it is hard but everyone has to grow up at some point...
What I find funny is you're saying..think about what you were discussing in the first place..which is TKL vs. Fullsize..and the position of the mouse is one of those things.....and YOU are bringing up posture.
That is my take, you don't have to agree. Ah, well, it seems you've degraded the discussion to insults on character. I'm done, then. Good night.
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I have no issues with you feeling full is superior..and for whatever reasons you have.
But you're bringing up posture...I guess when your own words come back to bite you the only thing to do is run. I guess I'm not the only "lost" one...
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I have no issues with you feeling full is superior..and for whatever reasons you have.
But you're bringing up posture...I guess when your own words come back to bite you the only thing to do is run. I guess I'm not the only "lost" one...
Alright, I guess I'll keep going.. My words aren't "coming back to bite me", I say what I mean, and that's it. You're misunderstanding. Any fool can determine that mouse position is independent of your posture. Yes, they're two separate things. Red is not blue, water is not grass. Congratulations, astonishing discovery. That's clear. You know I'm aware of that, yes? The point I'm making, is that if your overall posture improves, the mouse position difference of a couple of inches becomes inconsequential, and the "problem" of minor mouse distance goes away. At this point, your overall ergonomics at the desk are really good, and the minor distance from mouse to keyboard being reduced is negligible. This doesn't deny the fact that the mouse is slightly closer to the keyboard, it just makes it a moot point.
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I have no issues with you feeling full is superior..and for whatever reasons you have.
But you're bringing up posture...I guess when your own words come back to bite you the only thing to do is run. I guess I'm not the only "lost" one...
Alright, I guess I'll keep going.. My words aren't "coming back to bite me", I say what I mean, and that's it. You're misunderstanding. Any fool can determine that mouse position is independent of your posture. Yes, they're two separate things. Red is not blue, water is not grass. Congratulations, astonishing discovery. That's clear. You know I'm aware of that, yes? The point I'm making, is that if your overall posture improves, the mouse position difference of a couple of inches becomes inconsequential, and the "problem" of minor mouse distance goes away. At this point, your overall ergonomics at the desk are really good, and the minor distance from mouse to keyboard being reduced is negligible. This doesn't deny the fact that the mouse is slightly closer to the keyboard, it just makes it a moot point.
I know what you're trying to say...that doesn't change the fact that the mouse is in a much better position.
Now obviously, both are opinions. You're saying with other proper ergonomics it doesn't matter. I'm saying regardless of other proper ergonomics, it does matter.
Given you rarely use the mouse at all(according to you), you're probably not well suited to make this judgement right? Not from an experience standpoint anyways...and yet most people that have made the switch will comment on how much better the mouse position is....I mean, given your need for the numberpad, have you even used TKL extensively?
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Isn't it obvious that Topre is worth it if you (thread starter) post it in GH? Use some common sense. I am sure you already know many people here in GH have Topre boards as their daily driver.
And I don't understand why some people always fight over this. All these are just personal preferences, some may like it and some don't, so please don't take it the wrong way guys. Understand what is personal preference. Be mature and not brawl over different opinions because it is OPINION. Grow up kids :thumb:
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Another way of calculating the worth of a RF87u occurred to me. I recently completed a mod of my CM Novatouch that included installing 55g domes and silencing rings along with lubing the stabilizers and topping it off with a blend of two sets of Vortex double-shot PBT caps. It is just my opinion of course, but these modifications have made the Novatouch as much of a pleasure to use as my RF 87ub 55g.
Considering the cost of the Novatouch, used donor board for the 55g domes, silencing rings, keycaps, and my time and effort, if I were to consider the modified Novatouch as the functional equivalent of my RF 87ub 55g, then the Realforce board is certainly more than worth its price.
OTOH, I prefer not trying to put a price on the fun I had modding my Novatouch. By the same token, the "worth" of my RF is not something I compute in dollars and cents, but by the incalculable pleasure I derive from using a high-quality computer interface for work and play.
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Isn't it obvious that Topre is worth it if you (thread starter) post it in GH? Use some common sense. I am sure you already know many people here in GH have Topre boards as their daily driver.
Of course many here on GH probably are using Topre switches - what better place to ask for an opinion on this switches. I am very thankful for all the input and options I got in this thread so far. I am quite certain now I will have to get a Realforce. If only to see what all the fuss is about .-)
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Get a 55g and never look back..
Hm, ok I was planing on getting the 45g, as this is the only one available with the Layout in ISO/German.
45g not worth it then?
I currently own a 55g 87U, a variable 87U and a 45g HHKB. The 55g is my least favorite. I like the lighter switches.
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I can see why some might like 55g on RF..45g on the RF seems slightly lighter than on the HHKB...not sure why. I think 55g is a bit too heavy though..
If you're used to reds/browns/blues you'll probably want 45g Topre.
As you start approaching Clears, Blacks, etc...you'll probably want 55g Topre
Although everyone's preferences may vary..I'm just looking at comparable weight and effort.
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If I got sick of bottoming out on FC660C, would I want a RF87u 55g or a 55g version of Royal Kludge?
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If you're sick of bottoming out with Topre, stop using Topre..
You're going to bottom out...you can make it so you're just bottoming lightly, but you're not going to stop bottoming out...
30g Topre, you might be able to..because it is so light at the drop is so minor, you can probably type really lightly with that and not bottom out...but then what would be the point?
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If you're sick of bottoming out with Topre, stop using Topre..
You're going to bottom out...you can make it so you're just bottoming lightly, but you're not going to stop bottoming out...
30g Topre, you might be able to..because it is so light at the drop is so minor, you can probably type really lightly with that and not bottom out...but then what would be the point?
True, maybe I should just get a break from Topre
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But I think you should ask yourself why it is such a big deal if you bottom out..
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But I think you should ask yourself why it is such a big deal if you bottom out..
The key travel is what bothering me. It takes me a while to reach the bottom compared to ALPS or Cherry MX switches.
I used to like that when I just bought it, but now, for some reason, it gets annoying after a few hours of typing.
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The travel distance is the same...
And if you mean time wise, are you sure you're finding a measurable difference? If so it should impact people's typing speed right? But I think you'd find that some people actually type faster on Topre (and some type slower) so they're probably very similar.
If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't..
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The travel distance is the same...
And if you mean time wise, are you sure you're finding a measurable difference? If so it should impact people's typing speed right? But I think you'd find that some people actually type faster on Topre (and some type slower) so they're probably very similar.
If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't..
Yeah it's very subjective, although I don't care that much about typing speed. It's just the Topre switches feel like I'm overcoming the surface tension of some liquid, and when I do it and I reach the bottom, my fingers get stuck for a fraction of a second, right when the "thock" sound happens. That delay annoys me, it feels like my keys are about to get stuck and not bounce back.
Again, that's just my opinion, pretty sure if I try typing on 55g Topre in Yodobashi camera, I'll sell all my other keyboards just to get my hands on it.
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The travel distance is the same...
And if you mean time wise, are you sure you're finding a measurable difference? If so it should impact people's typing speed right? But I think you'd find that some people actually type faster on Topre (and some type slower) so they're probably very similar.
If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't..
Yeah it's very subjective, although I don't care that much about typing speed. It's just the Topre switches feel like I'm overcoming the surface tension of some liquid, and when I do it and I reach the bottom, my fingers get stuck for a fraction of a second, right when the "thock" sound happens. That delay annoys me, it feels like my keys are about to get stuck and not bounce back.
Again, that's just my opinion, pretty sure if I try typing on 55g Topre in Yodobashi camera, I'll sell all my other keyboards just to get my hands on it.
You're still going to bottom out. You might feel it is snappier though...
There isn't a delay there, it is probably the sound or something with the feel..I'm not saying it isn't important to you, it is and that is a perfectly valid reason.....I'm just saying there isn't a delay...
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I find the bottom out feel more pleasant on 45g Topre, it requires less force to activate and you end up with less momentum/force at the bottom of the keystroke. I think 55g is a little more harsh due to the increased amount of force required.
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I find the bottom out feel more pleasant on 45g Topre, it requires less force to activate and you end up with less momentum/force at the bottom of the keystroke. I think 55g is a little more harsh due to the increased amount of force required.
the sound of my spacebar on my rf87/w/55g literally is music to my ears I just want to hit it all day long. I feel like 55g better sounds and feels better. There is a little bit more of a bottom out due to the extra force on the dome when it collapses but I love that. It's all subjective and I feel 45 g has its merits
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Just a quick follow-up.
After a few days of using this, I'm not going to beat around the bush: this keyboard actually is pretty awesome. I love the way it feels on the fingers, and doesn't seem to give my fingers fatigue as my previous two keyboards did. The caps feel pretty darn smooth, and I don't seem to type as many errors as I did previously (could be placebo, but hey).
That said, I still miss my numpad, but that can be remedied by buying another one. I'm using this Realforce at work (I'm the only one here with a non-104 keyboard), and having a numpad where I work is almost required.
I still seem to accidentally press "D" and "S," as I like to keep my left hand on home row while using my mouse. I guess I'm a severely heavy typist after all. My previous two keyboards are a Unicomp and QuietKey, and those, in my opinion, require much more force than this Topre does.
Also, it may just be me being super picky, but are any of the other caps ABS? I know the space bar is advertised as being the only ABS cap on the board, but it seems to me that the Shifts, Enter, Back Space, Caps Lock, and Ctrl seem to have the same black color and shine on top as the space bar.
That said, after just a few days, I'm already seeing why the bandwagon for cup rubber is so loud and big. I'm already eyeing the anniversary edition just to have the different-colored caps and slightly off-black case!
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That said, after just a few days, I'm already seeing why the bandwagon for cup rubber is so loud and big. I'm already eyeing the anniversary edition just to have the different-colored caps and slightly off-black case!
Hahaha this is why GH makes your wallet thin :))
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Nope, all the keys beside the spacebar are PBT, and the PBT spacebar is being made at the moment, if you hadn't noticed.
And on the different keycaps front, just wait for the topre-mx sliders that bunny and JT are producing. Just check out the Jt debut GB thread for more information.
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Nope all the keys beside the spacebar are PBT, and the PBT spacebar is being made at the moment, if you hadn't noticed.
And on the different keycaps front, just wait for the topre-mx sliders that bunny and JT are producing. Just check out the Jt debut GB thread for more information.
Yeah, I definitely noticed the PBT space bar. I wasn't too concerned about that as I'm getting it eventually (Massdrop), but just wanted to know about the other caps.
Definitely keeping an eye out for the MX sliders.
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Nope, all the keys beside the spacebar are PBT, and the PBT spacebar is being made at the moment, if you hadn't noticed.
And on the different keycaps front, just wait for the topre-mx sliders that bunny and JT are producing. Just check out the Jt debut GB thread for more information.
Made by who? This is awesome!
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Nope, all the keys beside the spacebar are PBT, and the PBT spacebar is being made at the moment, if you hadn't noticed.
And on the different keycaps front, just wait for the topre-mx sliders that bunny and JT are producing. Just check out the Jt debut GB thread for more information.
Made by who? This is awesome!
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71630.0
More are going to be on the CTRL ALT store later, and probably with other CTRL alt keycap sets.
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Nope, all the keys beside the spacebar are PBT, and the PBT spacebar is being made at the moment, if you hadn't noticed.
And on the different keycaps front, just wait for the topre-mx sliders that bunny and JT are producing. Just check out the Jt debut GB thread for more information.
Made by who? This is awesome!
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71630.0
More are going to be on the CTRL ALT store later, and probably with other CTRL alt keycap sets.
Thanks, dude
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I have a 55g 87U, a variable silent 87U and an HHKB. I've been mostly been using the HHKB lately because of the form factor, but the variable is my favorite by far. I should also point out that I'm Colemak touch typist, which greatly reduces finger travel. If I were still qwerty, I might favor the 55g.
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Does anyone like Realforce 86u with variable switches? Suddenly got one for like super cheap at one of the local auctions.
Gotta give a try to lighter Topre switches. If I still don't like them, I'll sell/trade my Topre boards.
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Re the first two pages of this thread: I'm into KBs as much as anyone—but when I see people spending days ranting at each other about which KB feature is superior to another, I can't help thinking, "Is it possible you guys need to, you know, get out a bit more...?" :?)
After a few days of using this, I'm not going to beat around the bush: this keyboard actually is pretty awesome... After just a few days, I'm already seeing why the bandwagon for cup rubber is so loud and big.
You're echoing what my friends have said about Topres, and what I've experienced. They feel so different from other mechanicals, they can take some getting used to. But that doesn't mean they're not good.
I think a fair number of people who buy Topres turn around and resell them without taking adequate time to "tune into" them. This gives the rest of us chances to get them cheaply. (I got my barely-used Type Heaven locally for $50!)
I have a 55g 87U, a variable silent 87U and an HHKB. I've been mostly been using the HHKB lately because of the form factor, but the variable is my favorite by far... I should also point out that I'm Colemak touch typist, which greatly reduces finger travel...
Not to drift the topic (at least I referred to it a bit above, right?), but I'm really curious about the Colemak layout. Like most people I know, I learned QWERTY in high school, I switched to Dvorak years ago and have never regretted it. (It's hard not to LOL at people who say it's no better!) Did you give Dvorak a go, or did you go directly to Colemak? Or maybe you never used QWERTY? I'm just wondering if you can give me a comparison between D. and C. If C.'s that much better, I'd consider switching to it myself.
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(I got my barely-used Type Heaven locally for $50!)
That's a steal! I got one barely-used for $100 and quite happy with it.
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(I got my barely-used Type Heaven locally for $50!)
That's a steal! I got one barely-used for $100 and quite happy with it.
There are many wealthy people in Vancouver who get tired of stuff and don't really care how much they get for it. (I'm not one of them.)
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Used it for a little over a week, and I'm actually having Topre withdrawal. I've been on vacation now for over a week and I'm counting the days I can go back to the office just to use my Topre.
I was with a friend around my office and gave the excuse that we should head there so I can use the bathroom. While he waited I snuck to my desk and did some typing for a few seconds.
What have I become...
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The travel distance is the same...
And if you mean time wise, are you sure you're finding a measurable difference? If so it should impact people's typing speed right? But I think you'd find that some people actually type faster on Topre (and some type slower) so they're probably very similar.
If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't..
Incorrect. I actually type roughly 10% - 15% faster on MX switches, even after a few month's worth of using exclusively Topre. So, not bottoming out actually does help me type faster. I do bottom out a lot of my keystrokes, but some either don't bottom out at all, or do very lightly. With Topre, although you have a nice tactile response and certainty that the key was pressed, it is a bit of a hindrance. The tactile bump is so large that it drags the finger down with it, and it's quite hard to move on to the next key quickly. On browns, for example, I don't have this problem as I can just lightly tap the key and move on to the next one. I don't have a problem with scissor switches either, because the travel distance is so short. My guess would be that the enormous tactile bump Topre provides is great if you're learning to type, or just aren't typing all that fast, but for me it just gets in the way.
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Incorrect. I actually type roughly 10% - 15% faster on MX switches, even after a few month's worth of using exclusively Topre. So, not bottoming out actually does help me type faster. I do bottom out a lot of my keystrokes, but some either don't bottom out at all, or do very lightly. With Topre, although you have a nice tactile response and certainty that the key was pressed, it is a bit of a hindrance. The tactile bump is so large that it drags the finger down with it, and it's quite hard to move on to the next key quickly. On browns, for example, I don't have this problem as I can just lightly tap the key and move on to the next one. I don't have a problem with scissor switches either, because the travel distance is so short. My guess would be that the enormous tactile bump Topre provides is great if you're learning to type, or just aren't typing all that fast, but for me it just gets in the way.
It isn't incorrect. It might not apply to you (I even say for some they'll type slower) but for others , they're finding they type just as fast if not faster. Even one user here that was a big proponent of not bottoming out, claiming you had to not bottom out to type your fastest, finally used Topre and did so at the same speeds and sometimes faster....thus permanent killing his theory even for his own usage.
People will type differently with different setups. If you type your fastest without bottoming out then that works for you..but if you look at the fastest typers out there, they're bottoming out...but forgetting about them, there is nothing to suggest that bottoming out slows people down as a general statement because it doesn't.
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Incorrect. I actually type roughly 10% - 15% faster on MX switches, even after a few month's worth of using exclusively Topre. So, not bottoming out actually does help me type faster. I do bottom out a lot of my keystrokes, but some either don't bottom out at all, or do very lightly. With Topre, although you have a nice tactile response and certainty that the key was pressed, it is a bit of a hindrance. The tactile bump is so large that it drags the finger down with it, and it's quite hard to move on to the next key quickly. On browns, for example, I don't have this problem as I can just lightly tap the key and move on to the next one. I don't have a problem with scissor switches either, because the travel distance is so short. My guess would be that the enormous tactile bump Topre provides is great if you're learning to type, or just aren't typing all that fast, but for me it just gets in the way.
It isn't incorrect. It might not apply to you but for others, they're finding they type just as fast if not faster. Even one user here that was a big proponent of not bottoming out, claiming you had to not bottom out to type your fastest, finally used Topre and did so at the same speeds and sometimes faster....thus permanent killing his theory even for his own usage.
People will type differently with different setups. If you type your fastest without bottoming out then that works for you..but if you look at the fastest typers out there, they're bottoming out...but forgetting about them, there is nothing to suggest that bottoming out slows people down as a general statement because it doesn't.
"If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't.."
That is incorrect. You're making a general statement about what does / doesn't make all of us type faster. It doesn't apply to all, I am at least one counterexample, so yeah, it's incorrect. Logic 101 bruh. I'm curious as to what bull**** you're going to come up with next, lol.
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"If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't.."
That is incorrect. You're making a general statement about what does / doesn't make all of us type faster. It doesn't apply to all, I am at least one counterexample, so yeah, it's incorrect. Logic 101 bruh. I'm curious as to what bull**** you're going to come up with next, lol.
Read the whole post.
But if you want to go the logic 101...You typing 10% faster on MX and not bottoming out doesn't mean that (not bottoming out) is the reason you're typing faster. Some people hate browns and will type 15% faster on them compared to their favorite reds...There are many different reasons for that. You are, of course, associating MX and you not bottoming out to the increase in speed and that might be the case for you..or it might not.
Or we can flat out just say, you're giving up speed in not bottoming out...that's probably very true..you don't think so..but what is your wpm?
And for clarification..I do believe you type faster on MX...but that has nothing to do with bottoming out...That might be how you want to type but pretty much as a proven fact, no one is typing at high speed (120wpm) without bottoming out somewhat....look at the super fast typers and they all bottom out...
To show you how flawed your "logic" is...you are fine with Scissor switches yet you bottom out with them...so you can bottom out and type just as fast...It isn't bottoming out that is the issue...
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Used it for a little over a week, and I'm actually having Topre withdrawal. I've been on vacation now for over a week and I'm counting the days I can go back to the office just to use my Topre.
I was with a friend around my office and gave the excuse that we should head there so I can use the bathroom. While he waited I snuck to my desk and did some typing for a few seconds.
What have I become...
YES we now see here a typical Thorpie Addict needing some urgent remedial care :o .
Need to purchase MORE RealForce keyboards, STAT 8) .
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"If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't.."
That is incorrect. You're making a general statement about what does / doesn't make all of us type faster. It doesn't apply to all, I am at least one counterexample, so yeah, it's incorrect. Logic 101 bruh. I'm curious as to what bull**** you're going to come up with next, lol.
Read the whole post.
But if you want to go the logic 101...You typing 10% faster on MX and not bottoming out doesn't mean that is the reason you're typing faster. Some people hate browns and will type 15% faster on them compared to their favorite reds...There are many different reasons for that. You are, of course, associating MX and you not bottoming out to the increase in speed but there is actually nothing to indicate that is actually the reason.
Hahaha, yep, I knew you were going to say that, knew it. Ok, just think about it practically. What is the reason I'm typing faster, can you tell me? You can't, because you can't observe. I can. For some people, that's simply it. The bottoming out "encouragement" that Topre provides messes with some individuals' response and recognition of a key press. It slows them down. For me, when I try to type fast on a Topre keyboard, that characteristic of the switch makes me feel like I have to totally bottom out for the stroke to register. It feels as though a necessary delay has been introduced to my typing speed. We're not robots, we're humans. Maybe the keypress was actually registered long before I bottomed out? Does that change the way my brain and fingers react? NO. So when I tell you that yes, I am typing faster on these switches because I feel that I don't have to completely bottom out every keystroke, that's it. It's what I feel, and how I react. It's an axiom of my typing process.
EDIT: You asked how fast I type. The fastest I've been able to hit is 135 wpm, although typically day to day I am at 115 to 120. Also you mentioned that I bottom out on scissor switches. While that's true, my brain's reaction to bottoming out on scissor switches vs. bottoming out on Topre is quite different, likely due to the difference in travel distance and actuation force. Bottoming out on a scissor switch does not slow me down nearly as much as bottoming out on a Topre switch.
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"If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't.."
That is incorrect. You're making a general statement about what does / doesn't make all of us type faster. It doesn't apply to all, I am at least one counterexample, so yeah, it's incorrect. Logic 101 bruh. I'm curious as to what bull**** you're going to come up with next, lol.
Read the whole post.
But if you want to go the logic 101...You typing 10% faster on MX and not bottoming out doesn't mean that is the reason you're typing faster. Some people hate browns and will type 15% faster on them compared to their favorite reds...There are many different reasons for that. You are, of course, associating MX and you not bottoming out to the increase in speed but there is actually nothing to indicate that is actually the reason.
Hahaha, yep, I knew you were going to say that, knew it. Ok, just think about it practically. What is the reason I'm typing faster, can you tell me? You can't, because you can't observe. I can. For some people, that's simply it. The bottoming out "encouragement" that Topre provides messes with some individuals' response and recognition of a key press. It slows them down. For me, when I try to type fast on a Topre keyboard, that characteristic of the switch makes me feel like I have to totally bottom out for the stroke to register. It feels as though a necessary delay has been introduced to my typing speed. We're not robots, we're humans. Maybe the keypress was actually registered long before I bottomed out? Does that change the way my brain and fingers react? NO. So when I tell you that yes, I am typing faster on these switches because I feel that I don't have to completely bottom out every keystroke, that's it. It's what I feel, and how I react. It's an axiom of my typing process.
EDIT: You asked how fast I type. The fastest I've been able to hit is 135 wpm, although typically day to day I am at 115 to 120. Also you mentioned that I bottom out on scissor switches. While that's true, my brain's reaction to bottoming out on scissor switches vs. bottoming out on Topre is quite different, likely due to the difference in travel distance and actuation force. Bottoming out on a scissor switch does not slow me down nearly as much as bottoming out on a Topre switch.
So it isn't the act of bottoming out but Topre itself...which is fair enough...and what I said..some people are going to type just as fast or faster..and some will type slower. The act of bottoming out is not the cause of you typing slower. You're associating the two but that isn't the cause of it...
But would love to see someone type at 130wpm and not bottom out....Be the first to prove people can!
And before you mention what you observe..people don't always know what is going on..they think they do...In their mind it is working a certain way but it isn't.
Perfect example - Jack Nicklaus - one of the greatest golfers ever. Would say you would set up a certain way and have your club face a certain way to get a draw or fade...Basically, path determined starting point and the ball would turn the way the face was...it ends up he had it 100% wrong and it was actually the other way around. In his head, this was exactly what he was doing. The reality though, was completely different.
I'm sure you believe what you see 100%...but you're also the one commenting about TKL right?
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"If it is just a feel thing..that's fair enough...but if you think not bottoming out helps you type faster...It doesn't.."
That is incorrect. You're making a general statement about what does / doesn't make all of us type faster. It doesn't apply to all, I am at least one counterexample, so yeah, it's incorrect. Logic 101 bruh. I'm curious as to what bull**** you're going to come up with next, lol.
Read the whole post.
But if you want to go the logic 101...You typing 10% faster on MX and not bottoming out doesn't mean that is the reason you're typing faster. Some people hate browns and will type 15% faster on them compared to their favorite reds...There are many different reasons for that. You are, of course, associating MX and you not bottoming out to the increase in speed but there is actually nothing to indicate that is actually the reason.
Hahaha, yep, I knew you were going to say that, knew it. Ok, just think about it practically. What is the reason I'm typing faster, can you tell me? You can't, because you can't observe. I can. For some people, that's simply it. The bottoming out "encouragement" that Topre provides messes with some individuals' response and recognition of a key press. It slows them down. For me, when I try to type fast on a Topre keyboard, that characteristic of the switch makes me feel like I have to totally bottom out for the stroke to register. It feels as though a necessary delay has been introduced to my typing speed. We're not robots, we're humans. Maybe the keypress was actually registered long before I bottomed out? Does that change the way my brain and fingers react? NO. So when I tell you that yes, I am typing faster on these switches because I feel that I don't have to completely bottom out every keystroke, that's it. It's what I feel, and how I react. It's an axiom of my typing process.
EDIT: You asked how fast I type. The fastest I've been able to hit is 135 wpm, although typically day to day I am at 115 to 120. Also you mentioned that I bottom out on scissor switches. While that's true, my brain's reaction to bottoming out on scissor switches vs. bottoming out on Topre is quite different, likely due to the difference in travel distance and actuation force. Bottoming out on a scissor switch does not slow me down nearly as much as bottoming out on a Topre switch.
So it isn't the act of bottoming out but Topre itself...which is fair enough...and what I said..some people are going to type just as fast or faster..and some will type slower. The act of bottoming out is not the cause of you typing slower. You're associating the two but that isn't the cause of it...
But would love to see someone type at 130wpm and not bottom out....Be the first to prove people can!
The act of bottoming out (on Topre) is exactly the cause of me typing slower. If I could just turn off the "switch feeling" area of my brain and type like a robot, maybe I would type just as fast, but that's obviously not possible. My brain is unable to accurately predict exactly when to release my finger when I actuate the switch, so it just keeps going until I hit the bottom. This bottoming out slows me down, as I have to do it for every press to be sure that I actually pressed the key. On an MX switch, I don't need to do that. The tactile response is different, and tells my brain "you can let go now", before the bottoming out occurs. The result for me is less time and effort, which yields a higher speed.
I still bottom out on MX switches, just not on every press. If I had to guess, I'd say about 30% of my keypresses do not bottom out.
EDIT: Regarding the "I don't know what's going on in my brain" comment. It's inconsequential. I don't need to understand the complex neurological processes that cause this to happen, because the end result is that it happens, I bottom out the switch, and that prevents me from releasing my finger quickly and pressing the next key. I purposely bottom out the keys on Topre, because that is the response I receive from the switch, telling me that press needs to be complete before I press the next switch. I am unable to reliably press the key halfway on a Topre keyboard while typing fast. I cannot perform this action (as I can on an MX switch) which saves me time and effort. I have to bottom out the Topre switch. That slows me down. To isolate the problem further, this only occurs on the bottoming out action of a Topre switch. If your next response is something along the lines of "Well, that's your brain, not the Topre switch" I will remind you that we are humans using keyboards, not robots. These characteristics of the switch are meaningless without the context of a human mind. A machine would never bottom out a switch, as it's not technically required. For many humans, it is.
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does feeling different from Noppoo Capacitive Or the same ?
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The act of bottoming out (on Topre) is exactly the cause of me typing slower. If I could just turn off the "switch feeling" area of my brain and type like a robot, maybe I would type just as fast, but that's obviously not possible. My brain is unable to accurately predict exactly when to release my finger when I actuate the switch, so it just keeps going until I hit the bottom. This bottoming out slows me down, as I have to do it for every press to be sure that I actually pressed the key. On an MX switch, I don't need to do that. The tactile response is different, and tells my brain "you can let go now", before the bottoming out occurs. The result for me is less time and effort, which yields a higher speed.
I still bottom out on MX switches, just not on every press. If I had to guess, I'd say about 30% of my keypresses do not bottom out.
EDIT: Regarding the "I don't know what's going on in my brain" comment. It's inconsequential. I don't need to understand the complex neurological processes that cause this to happen, because the end result is that it happens, I bottom out the switch, and that prevents me from releasing my finger quickly and pressing the next key. I purposely bottom out the keys on Topre, because that is the response I receive from the switch, telling me that press needs to be complete before I press the next switch. I am unable to reliably press the key halfway on a Topre keyboard while typing fast. I cannot perform this action (as I can on an MX switch) which saves me time and effort. I have to bottom out the Topre switch. That slows me down. To isolate the problem further, this only occurs on the bottoming out action of a Topre switch. If your next response is something along the lines of "Well, that's your brain, not the Topre switch" I will remind you that we are humans using keyboards, not robots. These characteristics of the switch are meaningless without the context of a human mind. A machine would never bottom out a switch, as it's not technically required. For many humans, it is.
I type measurably faster on Topre switches than on MX switches.
Everybody's different.
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The act of bottoming out (on Topre) is exactly the cause of me typing slower. If I could just turn off the "switch feeling" area of my brain and type like a robot, maybe I would type just as fast, but that's obviously not possible. My brain is unable to accurately predict exactly when to release my finger when I actuate the switch, so it just keeps going until I hit the bottom. This bottoming out slows me down, as I have to do it for every press to be sure that I actually pressed the key. On an MX switch, I don't need to do that. The tactile response is different, and tells my brain "you can let go now", before the bottoming out occurs. The result for me is less time and effort, which yields a higher speed.
I still bottom out on MX switches, just not on every press. If I had to guess, I'd say about 30% of my keypresses do not bottom out.
EDIT: Regarding the "I don't know what's going on in my brain" comment. It's inconsequential. I don't need to understand the complex neurological processes that cause this to happen, because the end result is that it happens, I bottom out the switch, and that prevents me from releasing my finger quickly and pressing the next key. I purposely bottom out the keys on Topre, because that is the response I receive from the switch, telling me that press needs to be complete before I press the next switch. I am unable to reliably press the key halfway on a Topre keyboard while typing fast. I cannot perform this action (as I can on an MX switch) which saves me time and effort. I have to bottom out the Topre switch. That slows me down. To isolate the problem further, this only occurs on the bottoming out action of a Topre switch. If your next response is something along the lines of "Well, that's your brain, not the Topre switch" I will remind you that we are humans using keyboards, not robots. These characteristics of the switch are meaningless without the context of a human mind. A machine would never bottom out a switch, as it's not technically required. For many humans, it is.
I type measurably faster on Topre switches than on MX switches.
Everybody's different.
Yup. I wish I could type faster on Topre, but it just doesn't seem to jive with me. Are you faster on Topre than any MX switch, or just specific ones?
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Re the first two pages of this thread: I'm into KBs as much as anyone—but when I see people spending days ranting at each other about which KB feature is superior to another, I can't help thinking, "Is it possible you guys need to, you know, get out a bit more...?" :?)
After a few days of using this, I'm not going to beat around the bush: this keyboard actually is pretty awesome... After just a few days, I'm already seeing why the bandwagon for cup rubber is so loud and big.
You're echoing what my friends have said about Topres, and what I've experienced. They feel so different from other mechanicals, they can take some getting used to. But that doesn't mean they're not good.
I think a fair number of people who buy Topres turn around and resell them without taking adequate time to "tune into" them. This gives the rest of us chances to get them cheaply. (I got my barely-used Type Heaven locally for $50!)
I have a 55g 87U, a variable silent 87U and an HHKB. I've been mostly been using the HHKB lately because of the form factor, but the variable is my favorite by far... I should also point out that I'm Colemak touch typist, which greatly reduces finger travel...
Not to drift the topic (at least I referred to it a bit above, right?), but I'm really curious about the Colemak layout. Like most people I know, I learned QWERTY in high school, I switched to Dvorak years ago and have never regretted it. (It's hard not to LOL at people who say it's no better!) Did you give Dvorak a go, or did you go directly to Colemak? Or maybe you never used QWERTY? I'm just wondering if you can give me a comparison between D. and C. If C.'s that much better, I'd consider switching to it myself.
Never tried Dvorak. I went from 30+ years of qwerty to Colemak. I'm glad I switched. However, the transition took longer than I anticipated. It took about six months to get completely comfortable with it. I know some guys switch between layouts without issues, but I decided needed to be 100% Colemak for it to be second nature and haven't typed qwerty for several years now. I even have Colemak on my phone hahaha. I'm a strong 80 wpm on 10FastFingers, so not a lot faster than what I was. But it is more comfortable. It was worth it to me.
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Yup. I wish I could type faster on Topre, but it just doesn't seem to jive with me. Are you faster on Topre than any MX switch, or just specific ones?
Most anything but Clears. I'm just about comparable on Clears w/ Topre.
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I've tried all varieties of Realforce and for me it's either all 45g or the 45g variable.
55g is fun but if you type A LOT like I do, all day long every day, it can be taxing on your pinkies.
I sold my 55g and have used 45g and variables for years and love them.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Welcome to perfection
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Welcome to perfection
Is this the endgame? I just can't wait until I can buy a red escape keycap and match it with the red PBT spacebar from Matt3o's drop. I don't mind too much for artisans, so that would be the perfect pop of color for me.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Welcome to perfection
Is this the endgame? I just can't wait until I can buy a red escape keycap and match it with the red PBT spacebar from Matt3o's drop. I don't mind too much for artisans, so that would be the perfect pop of color for me.
Endgame will be when we get 55g topre korean customs, until then, yes, this is endgame. Don't listen to the HHKB fanboys. muhahaha
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Welcome to perfection
Is this the endgame? I just can't wait until I can buy a red escape keycap and match it with the red PBT spacebar from Matt3o's drop. I don't mind too much for artisans, so that would be the perfect pop of color for me.
Endgame will be when we get 55g topre korean customs, until then, yes, this is endgame. Don't listen to the HHKB fanboys. muhahaha
55g HHKB > 55g realforce
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55g HHKB > 55g realforce
Send me one and I'll tell you if you're right =)
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55g HHKB > 55g realforce
Send me one and I'll tell you if you're right =)
I'll show you mine if you show me yours. :-*
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Welcome to perfection
Is this the endgame? I just can't wait until I can buy a red escape keycap and match it with the red PBT spacebar from Matt3o's drop. I don't mind too much for artisans, so that would be the perfect pop of color for me.
You need to watch that carefully because there are different Reds for the Topre Keys (at least 2).
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Welcome to perfection
Is this the endgame? I just can't wait until I can buy a red escape keycap and match it with the red PBT spacebar from Matt3o's drop. I don't mind too much for artisans, so that would be the perfect pop of color for me.
You need to watch that carefully because there are different Reds for the Topre Keys (at least 2).
Oh, really? Do you mean in terms of shades? I just saw it from elitekeyboards that there was a blank red key and one with escape printed on it.
55g HHKB > 55g realforce
Send me one and I'll tell you if you're right =)
I'll show you mine if you show me yours. :-*
Seriously, modding an hhkb for 55g would be really expensive. I'm glad with this one, thanks!
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late to the party but if you feel that the bottom-out distance is too much on a non-silenced/Type-S topre board, just dental-band mod it. you lower the travel AND quiet the dang thing a bit.
i don't know if i'll ever go back to regular-travel topre at this point, my hhkb has about 1mm less travel and i love it.
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Oh, really? Do you mean in terms of shades? I just saw it from elitekeyboards that there was a blank red key and one with escape printed on it.
Yeah....I think they matched the PBT Spacebar to the Special CTRL pack Red..which I think is the same as the Red ESC red but not sure...but the Red ESC is different in shade to the Red Keycap set....
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Oh, really? Do you mean in terms of shades? I just saw it from elitekeyboards that there was a blank red key and one with escape printed on it.
Yeah....I think they matched the PBT Spacebar to the Special CTRL pack Red..which I think is the same as the Red ESC red but not sure...but the Red ESC is different in shade to the Red Keycap set....
I see. Alright, thanks for the heads up! It's still going to be a while before they start production on the PBT spacebars, so I'll just have to sit tight. But this ABS spacebar is also pretty nice quality, for what it's worth.
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I got 3 HHKB Pro 2 already (2 normal one, 1 Type-S).
Been dying to get another board.. should I get the 55g or a GON board? Is the 55g really THAT much better to type on?
Help me decide bros.
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I got 3 HHKB Pro 2 already (2 normal one, 1 Type-S).
Been dying to get another board.. should I get the 55g or a GON board? Is the 55g really THAT much better to type on?
Help me decide bros.
The good thing about a 55g transplant, is that you can just sell the (Mostly) 45g realforce for a good deal of your money back, after you're done.
And yes, I think it's very worth it. 55g is much better for me. :)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a break-in time for this keyboard right? Do the 55g domes get smoother after a week or so? Or so I've been told. :))
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a break-in time for this keyboard right? Do the 55g domes get smoother after a week or so? Or so I've been told. :))
I haven't heard of such a thing. I haven't noticed any break in with my domes.
Only thing to really make them any more smooth is to lube the sliders... But topre is already damn smooth..
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I got 3 HHKB Pro 2 already (2 normal one, 1 Type-S).
Been dying to get another board.. should I get the 55g or a GON board? Is the 55g really THAT much better to type on?
Help me decide bros.
The good thing about a 55g transplant, is that you can just sell the (Mostly) 45g realforce for a good deal of your money back, after you're done.
And yes, I think it's very worth it. 55g is much better for me. :)
though, the HHKB is 60 keys, while the realforce has 61 keys in the 60% area. so what key on your realforce donor is 55g?
edit: you've lubed your topres? (what did you use?)
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
This is one of only two keyboards still on my wish list. Enjoy it :D
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
This is one of only two keyboards still on my wish list. Enjoy it :D
I am enjoying it. Thanks, man! You should definitely scoop one up considering all the keyboards you've tried out already!
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I got 3 HHKB Pro 2 already (2 normal one, 1 Type-S).
Been dying to get another board.. should I get the 55g or a GON board? Is the 55g really THAT much better to type on?
Help me decide bros.
The good thing about a 55g transplant, is that you can just sell the (Mostly) 45g realforce for a good deal of your money back, after you're done.
And yes, I think it's very worth it. 55g is much better for me. :)
though, the HHKB is 60 keys, while the realforce has 61 keys in the 60% area. so what key on your realforce donor is 55g?
edit: you've lubed your topres? (what did you use?)
I haven't lubed mine yet, I'm waiting to get my topre-mx sliders in the mail, then doing it.
But from what I have heard, thicker lubes work best.
And someone thankfully traded me my HHKB's 45g domes for their rf 55g domes, was very kind of them.
And if I was doing a transplant, I would put the 55g dome on the spacebar.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Can't wait to get my hands on one.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Can't wait to get my hands on one.
What are you waiting for? Join the cup rubber cult now! ;D
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a break-in time for this keyboard right? Do the 55g domes get smoother after a week or so? Or so I've been told. :))
Yes. I didn't like mine at first, but after a few days I love it.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a break-in time for this keyboard right? Do the 55g domes get smoother after a week or so? Or so I've been told. :))
Yes. I didn't like mine at first, but after a few days I love it.
Since I'm enjoying mine right now, what more in a couple of days once it's broken in! :thumb:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a break-in time for this keyboard right? Do the 55g domes get smoother after a week or so? Or so I've been told. :))
Yes. I didn't like mine at first, but after a few days I love it.
Since I'm enjoying mine right now, what more in a couple of days once it's broken in! :thumb:
Whoops. Somehow read that with the implication you didn't like it at all.
I need to stop checking GH as soon as I wake up...
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Can't wait to get my hands on one.
What are you waiting for? Join the cup rubber cult now! ;D
Where'd you get yours from? I'm also out in Asia, been waiting for the last two months for EK to restock.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Can't wait to get my hands on one.
What are you waiting for? Join the cup rubber cult now! ;D
Where'd you get yours from? I'm also out in Asia, been waiting for the last two months for EK to restock.
I got it from Massdrop! They had a drop for the Realforce 87U 55g maybe 2 months back. I had it shipped to my best friend in the US, and it was really good timing that he got it in time and came home yesterday.
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I got it from Massdrop! They had a drop for the Realforce 87U 55g maybe 2 months back. I had it shipped to my best friend in the US, and it was really good timing that he got it in time and came home yesterday.
Ah, I had forgotten about Massdrop as a source. I almost joined, but decided that black on black keys would be unusable at my desk (at home, dim lighting) so I'm now looking for a white board.
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I got it from Massdrop! They had a drop for the Realforce 87U 55g maybe 2 months back. I had it shipped to my best friend in the US, and it was really good timing that he got it in time and came home yesterday.
Ah, I had forgotten about Massdrop as a source. I almost joined, but decided that black on black keys would be unusable at my desk (at home, dim lighting) so I'm now looking for a white board.
Yeah, the white and grey board looks pretty cool as well. But the office is well lit, and I'm pretty much used to touch typing for the most part, so that's why I went ahead with it. Hope EK restocks soon! Would want to get the red ESC keycap for myself too.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
Can't wait to get my hands on one.
What are you waiting for? Join the cup rubber cult now! ;D
Where'd you get yours from? I'm also out in Asia, been waiting for the last two months for EK to restock.
Trying to get one from Japan right now.
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i'm waiting to see how the new realforce set (the one matt3o is designing) will turn out.
depending on the color (if i like the set), i'll just get a 55g RF with the appropriate color :)
would be even better if they released a 55g RF with the set already on it :P
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i'm waiting to see how the new realforce set (the one matt3o is designing) will turn out.
depending on the color (if i like the set), i'll just get a 55g RF with the appropriate color :)
would be even better if they released a 55g RF with the set already on it :P
Yeah, that would be my pick as well.
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i'm waiting to see how the new realforce set (the one matt3o is designing) will turn out.
depending on the color (if i like the set), i'll just get a 55g RF with the appropriate color :)
would be even better if they released a 55g RF with the set already on it :P
Yeah, that would be my pick as well.
So that's probably going to be $215.00 for the keyboard + $105.00 for the keycap set? I'd say that'd be a good estimate or so. Or since Matt3o's keycaps are already on it, it would probably be like an additional $40-50? Just giving out estimates here. I probably won't get his keycap set though. Just waiting on those sweet PBT spacebars.
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You can sell your stock PBT keycaps though for a decent amount...which would help offset the cost of buying a different one.
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You can sell your stock PBT keycaps though for a decent amount...which would help offset the cost of buying a different one.
Wow. Never even thought of that. I may end up doing that since I don't like the dark gray caps.
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How much would the stock dark grey PBT keycaps go for? :D
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
This is one of only two keyboards still on my wish list. Enjoy it :D
I am enjoying it. Thanks, man! You should definitely scoop one up considering all the keyboards you've tried out already!
My biggest problem is that I've still got all the keyboards I have tried. I am running out of space to store them.
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Okay, so I just got in my Realforce 87U 55g keyboard today. No buyers remorse here! Here are some of my first impressions with the keyboard:
1.) Boy, this thing is heavy. Really well built like a tank!
2.) The stock keycaps feel so nice to type on. Even though they aren't the thick PBT, they still feel fairly secure.
3.) I love the patented Topre thock! It sounds amazing.
4.) Typing on these 55g switches is a really great feeling experience. The keys feel so secure when you bottom out on them, it's a smooth and buttery experience.
5.) I like how quiet they are but they still offer so much tactility in the press. They're definitely much quieter than my MX Browns, which I'm sure my office mates will appreciate as well.
This is one of only two keyboards still on my wish list. Enjoy it :D
I am enjoying it. Thanks, man! You should definitely scoop one up considering all the keyboards you've tried out already!
My biggest problem is that I've still got all the keyboards I have tried. I am running out of space to store them.
Well, you know, when you eat at a buffet or you have a heavy dinner and your friend asks you what you want to have for dessert, you just can't say no! There's always room for dessert! :p
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My biggest problem is that I've still got all the keyboards I have tried. I am running out of space to store them.
Time to build a shed for all your gear, an Aussie with no shed isn't an Aussie 8) .
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My biggest problem is that I've still got all the keyboards I have tried. I am running out of space to store them.
Time to build a shed for all your gear, an Aussie with no shed isn't an Aussie 8) .
Already got 2 sheds and a garage :p
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Plugged in my 87U today and the first thing I did was to switch backspace and \ so my brain don't have to keep switching between the HHKB and TKL layout.
Loving it so far I must say. Granted it felt tougher to press on but it's so damn satisfying. More than my Type-S? Maybe not but they each have their own pros and cons.
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Used it for a little over a week, and I'm actually having Topre withdrawal. I've been on vacation now for over a week and I'm counting the days I can go back to the office just to use my Topre... I was with a friend around my office and gave the excuse that we should head there so I can use the bathroom. While he waited I snuck to my desk and did some typing for a few seconds... What have I become...
Why, a GeekHacker, of course.
My biggest problem is that I've still got all the keyboards I have tried. I am running out of space to store them.
How about getting some shelving boards and putting together a simple open cabinet that lets you store your KBs on-end? I've found that's the most efficient use of space. I wrap them in bubble wrap first. When there's time, I'll post a photo in case it's not clear what I'm describing.
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My biggest problem is that I've still got all the keyboards I have tried. I am running out of space to store them.
How about getting some shelving boards and putting together a simple open cabinet that lets you store your KBs on-end? I've found that's the most efficient use of space. I wrap them in bubble wrap first. When there's time, I'll post a photo in case it's not clear what I'm describing.
Lack of space for such a cabinet.
Coupled with atrocious carpentry skills (I've tried, many times, with various constructions).
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Ok this is a lot of information on the Topre topic.
I will have to choose between 45g Realforce 88u and 45g HHKB.
Which one will most likely last longer? Which one of those both would you choose?
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Ok this is a lot of information on the Topre topic.
I will have to choose between 45g Realforce 88u and 45g HHKB.
Which one will most likely last longer? Which one of those both would you choose?
Both, unfortunately.
There is no anecdotal evidence of RealForce or HHKB dieing.
Depends on whether you want TKL or 60% first.
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My biggest problem is that I've still got all the keyboards I have tried. I am running out of space to store them.
How about getting some shelving boards and putting together a simple open cabinet that lets you store your KBs on-end? I've found that's the most efficient use of space. I wrap them in bubble wrap first. When there's time, I'll post a photo in case it's not clear what I'm describing.
Lack of space for such a cabinet... Coupled with atrocious carpentry skills (I've tried, many times, with various constructions).
Hey, if I can do it, you can. I got the boards at Home Depot, and since I don't have a table saw to make nice straight cuts, I had them cut the boards for me there; it's only a few bucks more. Then all you need is a drill, some screws, and some wood glue.
As far as size goes, that's the point: By storing them on-end, leaning against each other (each in a bubble-wrap "pocket", is my preference), all you need is a bit over 7" of space from the wall. (7.25", a standard board width, is actually a bit more than most KBs need.)
The one I made is 48 x 45 x 7.25" and cost less than $25. I just wanted to keep my KBs in one place. But if you're short on space, it's quite efficient that way, too.
When there's time, I think I'll do a photo tutorial so everyone can see how easy and compact it is.
Sorry re the topic drift, BTW.
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What keyboard will be the best for me (Topre 45g or Topre 55g or Get another Filco) if:
1) I have one filco mx brown TKL - Love it
2) I have one code mx clear - to heavy for me and I had to use it at home where I don't type too much (also don't like springs noise)
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What keyboard will be the best for me (Topre 45g or Topre 55g or Get another Filco) if:
1) I have one filco mx brown TKL - Love it
2) I have one code mx clear - to heavy for me and I had to use it at home where I don't type too much (also don't like springs noise)
If I had to guess, I'd say the 45g Topre unless you know you want something heavier than your MX Browns. I think even the 45g are a bit heavier than MX Browns, which are pretty light and fairly linear compared with clears and Topre.
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What keyboard will be the best for me (Topre 45g or Topre 55g or Get another Filco) if:
1) I have one filco mx brown TKL - Love it
2) I have one code mx clear - to heavy for me and I had to use it at home where I don't type too much (also don't like springs noise)
If I had to guess, I'd say the 45g Topre unless you know you want something heavier than your MX Browns. I think even the 45g are a bit heavier than MX Browns, which are pretty light and fairly linear compared with clears and Topre.
Thank you! Just thought that 45 is too light for me... but after mx clears I'm not sure =(
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@Phillip_J_Fry: I tend to like some of the heavier switches, but mx clears were too heavy for me. I think this is because I usually bottom out every keystroke, and clears have a steeply increasing force curve post-actuation.
I have both 45g and 55g HHKB and 45g and 55g RF87U keyboards. I like both switch weights in Topre, and I go back and forth in my keyboard rotation.
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I have an 87U 55g, an HHKB Pro 2 and two 87U variables. If I had to pick just one board, it would be my variables. The hype over the 55g is...hype. The 87U variable is my favorite board.
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I have an 87U 55g, an HHKB Pro 2 and two 87U variables. If I had to pick just one board, it would be my variables. The hype over the 55g is...hype. The 87U variable is my favorite board.
Have you used a 45g uniform?
That's currently my favorite as I prefer it to the 55g uniform. I am curious what the variable feels like since it's just the pinky-finger keys that seem to be light. My left pinky tends to be the first to get tired, so I'm wondering if that might not be a bad idea to try out.
I'm just worried that it will feel strange having a few light keys, and I'll end up applying the same force to all the keys anyways and bottoming-out hard.
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If you type with "proper" form, then the variable will feel very natural...If you type with 2-3 fingers on each hand, it'll feel weird I'm sure.
For longer typing sessions, it is significantly easier on my hands..and it is always very noticeable (for me) when I switch to a uniform Topre or Cherry that my pinky fingers are getting a bit tired...
I think the only problem I had with it was I had to get used to how I rest my fingers on home row as I'd get tons of accidental aaaaaaaaaaaaa...not an issue any longer but used to be...
I also think variable sucks for gaming....But outside of that, while I probably enjoy typing on my HHKB more, variable RF is probably my main, it is just easier on my hands...
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So 55g are lighter than MX Clears? O_o
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So 55g are lighter than MX Clears? O_o
Yes.
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Topre switches are totally worth trying. I would only buy a used one in good condition though. They don't seem to age terribly either from my experiences like some standard rubber domes.
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Ordered a 87U in 55g because i just couldnt get used to the HHKB layout. Cant wait :)
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I sold my 103UB a long time ago and really wanted a 55g 87u to replace it. I ended up getting a novatouch and it exceeded my expectations. I love it just as much as my realforce except it cost less (Like new for $140 which puts in mechanical kb range). I had been seeing people not really liking them that much and was concerned but for nothing. The only issues are the keycaps and maybe cable placement if you are OCD.
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I'm holding off on more Keyboards for now, but I have a sneaking suspicion a Topre board will be my next purchase. I've been eyeing this: http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1365053110 since the black version came out on Massdrop but haven't been able to find a US/Canadian retailer for that beige Hi-Pro. Also...I doubt it comes in a Tenkeyless version but if anyone knows otherwise, that would really make it the perfect keyboard for me.
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Anyone here like the variable weight version? I don't see anyone who likes it...
I have an 87U 55g, an HHKB Pro 2 and two 87U variables. If I had to pick just one board, it would be my variables. The hype over the 55g is...hype. The 87U variable is my favorite board.
Have you used a 45g uniform?
That's currently my favorite as I prefer it to the 55g uniform. I am curious what the variable feels like since it's just the pinky-finger keys that seem to be light. My left pinky tends to be the first to get tired, so I'm wondering if that might not be a bad idea to try out.
I'm just worried that it will feel strange having a few light keys, and I'll end up applying the same force to all the keys anyways and bottoming-out hard.
No, unfortunately I've never used an 87U 45g uniform.
The variable is interesting in that I don't notice the difference in key weighting. If I type one key at a time and intentionally feel for it, I can detect the difference. But touch typing on it, I can't. It just feels balanced. I should note that I am a true touch typist and use the correct fingers for all keys. If a user were a two or three finger typist, I'm sure a uniform board would be a better choice. I should also point out that I type Colemak, so I prefer lighter keys because of the reduced finger travel.
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So 55g are lighter than MX Clears? O_o
Yes.
So 55G is somewhere in between MX Brown and MX Clear?
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No, unfortunately I've never used an 87U 45g uniform.
The variable is interesting in that I don't notice the difference in key weighting. If I type one key at a time and intentionally feel for it, I can detect the difference. But touch typing on it, I can't. It just feels balanced. I should note that I am a true touch typist and use the correct fingers for all keys. If a user were a two or three finger typist, I'm sure a uniform board would be a better choice. I should also point out that I type Colemak, so I prefer lighter keys because of the reduced finger travel.
I'm curious to try the 'ergonomic' weighting RF 87U.
If you didn't like it, couldn't you just replace the lighter 30g domes on either side of the alphas with the normal 45g domes under the function keys to end up with 45g uniform with 30g functions? Wouldn't be awkward then.
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Ok, just ordered a white 55g to use at home from Massdrop, november delivery. Since i got my Leopold, that I use at work, I don't enjoy my MX keyboards as much.
There goes 350 (can)$...
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No, unfortunately I've never used an 87U 45g uniform.
The variable is interesting in that I don't notice the difference in key weighting. If I type one key at a time and intentionally feel for it, I can detect the difference. But touch typing on it, I can't. It just feels balanced. I should note that I am a true touch typist and use the correct fingers for all keys. If a user were a two or three finger typist, I'm sure a uniform board would be a better choice. I should also point out that I type Colemak, so I prefer lighter keys because of the reduced finger travel.
I'm curious to try the 'ergonomic' weighting RF 87U.
If you didn't like it, couldn't you just replace the lighter 30g domes on either side of the alphas with the normal 45g domes under the function keys to end up with 45g uniform with 30g functions? Wouldn't be awkward then.
It actually goes 30g then the next key over is slightly heavier and while it doesn't show it, even the next key over seems slightly between that and 45g. It is probably a 45g dome though....The EK example is how it feels to me..the ones that just show the pinky finger being 30/35g is not right for sure...The "S" key is definitely slightly heavier than "A" but lighter than "D".
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Ok, just ordered a white 55g to use at home from Massdrop, november delivery. Since i got my Leopold, that I use at work, I don't enjoy my MX keyboards as much.
There goes 350 (can)$...
You won't regret it! How do you like your Leopold board so far?
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So 55g are lighter than MX Clears? O_o
Yes.
So 55G is somewhere in between MX Brown and MX Clear?
I would say so yes.
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No, unfortunately I've never used an 87U 45g uniform.
The variable is interesting in that I don't notice the difference in key weighting. If I type one key at a time and intentionally feel for it, I can detect the difference. But touch typing on it, I can't. It just feels balanced. I should note that I am a true touch typist and use the correct fingers for all keys. If a user were a two or three finger typist, I'm sure a uniform board would be a better choice. I should also point out that I type Colemak, so I prefer lighter keys because of the reduced finger travel.
I'm curious to try the 'ergonomic' weighting RF 87U.
If you didn't like it, couldn't you just replace the lighter 30g domes on either side of the alphas with the normal 45g domes under the function keys to end up with 45g uniform with 30g functions? Wouldn't be awkward then.
It actually goes 30g then the next key over is slightly heavier and while it doesn't show it, even the next key over seems slightly between that and 45g. It is probably a 45g dome though....The EK example is how it feels to me..the ones that just show the pinky finger being 30/35g is not right for sure...The "S" key is definitely slightly heavier than "A" but lighter than "D".
Interesting... I've just been going by the weight mapping I've found in a few places.
Still, I really like the 45g uniform... if I could transform the ergonomic weighted board into a 45g uniform if I don't like it, I'd probably get one.
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Ok, just ordered a white 55g to use at home from Massdrop, november delivery. Since i got my Leopold, that I use at work, I don't enjoy my MX keyboards as much.
There goes 350 (can)$...
You won't regret it! How do you like your Leopold board so far?
It's such a fine keyboard, I really love typing on it. And I like the layout a lot. I almost got an HHKB instead of the 87 U but in the end, i find those arrow keys pretty useful, even if I think the HHKB sounds better.
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I ended up liking my variable weight board way more than I expected. I bought it with the intent of harvesting the silenced sliders for my 45g RF but have been enjoying it so much I'm definitely going to be keeping it. Like someone else said, if you chicken peck the variable weighting will probably be off-putting but if you have decent typing form your pinkies will love it.
After having used 55g, 45g, and variable for a couple weeks each I think the absolute best feeling is silenced and lubed 45g. Lubing 45g with extra thick krytox makes it feel slightly heavier and more tactile than normal but still lighter than 55g.