geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: FoxWolf1 on Tue, 11 August 2015, 14:59:34
-
So a recent run-in with a blue switch on a brand new, high-quality keyboard that failed to click has gotten me thinking...
We've all seen plenty of evidence that the quality of MX Blue switches has been in decline for a while now. Between "bad batches" of blues and greens causing whole generations of keyboards from certain manufacturers to have frequent issues, public complaints from (supposed) Cherry employees about the state of the MX Blue tooling, Corsair's complaints about MX-RGB blue and eventual discontinuation of that switch in their keyboards, and the slow but noticeable increase over time in the number of individuals reporting non-clicky switches, I have to wonder:
How much longer before we hit the point where we have to start telling people to consider equivalent switches from MX-compatible manufacturers instead?
Now, I'm not saying that we're necessarily at that point yet-- I would want a lot more data about the alternatives, especially Gateron, Greetech, and Outemu (Gaote), before recommending them over Cherry-- but I can't help but feel like, in the absence of some corrective action from Cherry, the days when the MX Blue switch can be recommended in good faith to a prospective keyboard buyer will draw to a close in the not too distant future. What say ye?
-
This is news to me. I had experienced that newer MX blues felt harsher than vintage new-in-box MX blue keyboards but not heard of any quality problems.
Of the clones, Gateron Blues seem to have the best quality. If anyone has built a keyboard from them yet, please speak up!
Other than that I think that in general, in the large world (outside our community) that clicky switches are a bit dated. The tactile feel of (good batches of) the MX blues is not overrated, but I think that key switches should not be loud in 2015.
-
all the switches should be loud
LONG LIVE THE CLICKY KEYSWITCH
-
all the switches should be loud
LONG LIVE THE CLICKY KEYSWITCH
Please no. :(
-
all the switches should be loud
LONG LIVE THE CLICKY KEYSWITCH
Bluer words were never spoken!
-
This is news to me. I had experienced that newer MX blues felt harsher than vintage new-in-box MX blue keyboards but not heard of any quality problems.
Of the clones, Gateron Blues seem to have the best quality. If anyone has built a keyboard from them yet, please speak up!
Other than that I think that in general, in the large world (outside our community) that clicky switches are a bit dated. The tactile feel of (good batches of) the MX blues is not overrated, but I think that key switches should not be loud in 2015.
They will take my clicky switches from my cold dead hands. When I'm the last one in the office I plug in the 4704, turn up the volume, and rip.
I've built 2 boards with gateron blues. They are good! I haven't come across a defective switch yet. There is the cap interference issue that all gaterons from a run ago (I think they were going to fix it? Not sure...) where the stem of some caps can catch sometimes. The crosspoints are very thin and not 100% plated. I don't know if this will be an issue in the long run.
I have a set of late 80s/early 90s blues, some recent cherry blues, and some gateron blues. If there's things you want pictures of, or questions, I'll try and be accommodating.
-
Blue switches have always been flawed by design, but they are a creative way to make a click inside an MX housing unit.
While I think ALPS (and Matias) are superior, nothing is more mod friendly than MX switches. ALPS needs more keycaps, custom springs, and modern PCBs with 6kro/standard layouts.
FYI I bought two CM Storm TKLs and the blues on there were the worst I've ever seen. One is now a fully lubed MX black board.
-
I have a Poker II with blues, I recommend blues.
-
all the switches should be loud
LONG LIVE THE CLICKY KEYSWITCH
^ only mx switch worth anything. Want linear? Get a cheap rubberdome. Same experience.
-
wow, this is some straight nazi talk right here. It's not the MX blue spec that caused faulty switches to be made. Could happen with any slider if they've got a defective mold or machine acting up.
MX Blues are also never the default recommended switch. No switch is recommended by default because we aren't some hive-mind. The exception for this is of course Topre because... well.... they think they the best. :rolleyes:
-
ELIMINATE ZE BLUES!!!
-
f
all the switches should be loud
LONG LIVE THE CLICKY KEYSWITCH
^ only mx switch worth anything. Want linear? Get a cheap rubberdome. Same experience.
I'm typing on a well used rubber dome that is as tactile as the Matias Quiet-Click switch. Bzzt. Try again.
-
No.
IMHO, MX blues are the most overrated keyboard switch in existence. Buckling springs, white and especially blue Alps, clicky Space Invaders and especially SMK Montereys are just so much better it boggles the mind people actually use these. Heck, I have rubber dome keyboards I prefer to MX blues. There's no tactility, the keyfeel is very unclean, they have massive hysteresis, the clicky sound is so annoying you do nothing but wish it'd go away... Seriously, it's as if Cherry didn't even TRY to come up with a proper mechanism.
Genuinely I wonder whether the people who simply default to Cherries (i.e. almost everyone :P ) would stick to MX blues if they took the opportunity to try some proper switches :p .
-
...When I'm the last one in the office I plug in the 4704, turn up the volume, and rip.
Genuinely I wonder whether the people who simply default to Cherries (i.e. almost everyone :P ) would stick to MX blues if they took the opportunity to try some proper switches :p .
Has model F. Spends most of the time typing on Blues.
I also prefer Honjozo and Junmai sake over junmai daiginjo most of the time, prefer a real ale fsb over a double IPA, think pink is a hideous color for keyboards, and have hated every topre I've tried. People like different things and have no need for their taste to be questioned because it happens to not be what you like.
But this thread was about OG blues v.s. the new contender blues. We already know we want blues. Is it worth cautioning people against ordering the OG version due to deteriorating quality?
-
Wait, what? Who is "we"?
I have never recommended MX blue switches, except for jailhouse blues, which are excellent.
-
IMHO, MX blues are the most overrated keyboard switch in existence. Buckling springs, white and especially blue Alps, clicky Space Invaders and especially SMK Montereys are just so much better it boggles the mind people actually use these. Heck, I have rubber dome keyboards I prefer to MX blues. There's no tactility, the keyfeel is very unclean, they have massive hysteresis, the clicky sound is so annoying you do nothing but wish it'd go away... Seriously, it's as if Cherry didn't even TRY to come up with a proper mechanism.
The question that I originally wanted to pose was on a somewhat different issue from this...
Not "is the Cherry MX Blue mechanism a good mechanism for a keyboard switch?", but rather, "is Cherry still the best manufacturer of keyboard switches with the MX Blue mechanism?". What kind of mechanism one prefers will, I expect, depend on one's own personal taste-- but any given mechanism can be manufactured better or worse (in terms of consistency and reliability), and Cherry no longer has a monopoly on the mechanisms that they use.
Because, if things keep going the way they've been going, if they still are, they won't be for long. At which point, we (as a community) should stop defaulting to Cherry as our recommendation for someone looking for Blue-switch characteristics.
-
We should only recommend Topre.
-
blues w/ 65g springs are very nice.
-
blues w/ 65g springs are very nice.
Perhaps if Zeals Purple Gaterons take off maybe he can create the next Gateron "MX Green".
-
blues w/ 65g springs are very nice.
Perhaps if Zeals Purple Gaterons take off maybe he can create the next Gateron "MX Green".
Yea, those switches look dope, not cheap though!
-
I also prefer Honjozo and Junmai sake over junmai daiginjo most of the time, prefer a real ale fsb over a double IPA, think pink is a hideous color for keyboards, and have hated every topre I've tried. People like different things and have no need for their taste to be questioned because it happens to not be what you like.
Haha don't worry, I know everyone has their own preferences, and that's fine of course :) . It's just that I personally dislike these so much that I can barely imagine someone else liking these xD .
-
I have three keyboards with MX blues and one with MX greens.
Out of all those switches, two MX blues did not click properly, although both switches registered.
After mashing the up arrow, it is now virtually indistinguishable from the other switches. The X clicks, but still sounds muted.
-
The whole reason I got a mechanical keyboard was for blues. I work on a keyboard all day and the clicky sound is so utterly satisfying. The only thing that annoyed me when I first got the keyboard was the sound of the clack, that was more than I could handle. nothing some o-rings couldn't fix.
-
The whole reason I got a mechanical keyboard was for blues. I work on a keyboard all day and the clicky sound is so utterly satisfying.
Just wait until you get switches that don't have a horrible tinny and annoying clicks.
-
The whole reason I got a mechanical keyboard was for blues. I work on a keyboard all day and the clicky sound is so utterly satisfying.
Just wait until you get switches that don't have a horrible tinny and annoying clicks.
But I like it. Is that hard to understand?
-
So a recent run-in with a blue switch on a brand new, high-quality keyboard that failed to click has gotten me thinking...
How much longer before we hit the point where we have to start telling people to consider equivalent switches from MX-compatible manufacturers instead?
Now, I'm not saying that we're necessarily at that point yet-- I would want a lot more data about the alternatives, especially Gateron, Greetech, and Outemu (Gaote), before recommending them over Cherry-- but I can't help but feel like, in the absence of some corrective action from Cherry, the days when the MX Blue switch can be recommended in good faith to a prospective keyboard buyer will draw to a close in the not too distant future. What say ye?
So you got stuck with a dodgey keyboard and now it looks like all of Cherry Manufacturing has collapsed in quality - Time to wake up sunshine because every Blue, Green, Clear, White, Tactile Grey and Brown switch Made by Cherry Corp is alive and clicking beautifully at my home in a variety of keyboards. Mind you I still love Filcos (TKLs and Fullsized) over most other mechanical keyboards but all of them still work nicely as my Wife can attest, down the hall when she hears my claw tapping at night.
Never go down that route of blaming a whole company because you received a dud keyboard, simply RMA it also don't go into believing that buying a cheap-arse keyboard off someone on Ebay, constitutes a valid assessment of all Blue switches either. Geekhack is notorious in spreading false information as definitive fact, so those that complain suddenly represent 99% of owners on this planet.
Time to get real and not follow blindly into believing that clicky Cherry switches have failed, because you have to dig deeper as to why is it that suddenly no-name Chinese Made cheap copies are now better in "QUALITY"?
-
Is that hard to understand?
You do understand that I mean: wait until you get any clicky keyboard with superior switches to the Cherry MX, don't you?
IBM Model F > IBM Model M > NMB Hi-Tek black > Alps blue > SMK blue (aka Monterey) > SMK white > Acer > Alps white > etc, etc
-
So a recent run-in with a blue switch on a brand new, high-quality keyboard that failed to click has gotten me thinking...
How much longer before we hit the point where we have to start telling people to consider equivalent switches from MX-compatible manufacturers instead?
Now, I'm not saying that we're necessarily at that point yet-- I would want a lot more data about the alternatives, especially Gateron, Greetech, and Outemu (Gaote), before recommending them over Cherry-- but I can't help but feel like, in the absence of some corrective action from Cherry, the days when the MX Blue switch can be recommended in good faith to a prospective keyboard buyer will draw to a close in the not too distant future. What say ye?
So you got stuck with a dodgey keyboard and now it looks like all of Cherry Manufacturing has collapsed in quality - Time to wake up sunshine because every Blue, Green, Clear, White, Tactile Grey and Brown switch Made by Cherry Corp is alive and clicking beautifully at my home in a variety of keyboards. Mind you I still love Filcos (TKLs and Fullsized) over most other mechanical keyboards but all of them still work nicely as my Wife can attest, down the hall when she hears my claw tapping at night.
Never go down that route of blaming a whole company because you received a dud keyboard, simply RMA it also don't go into believing that buying a cheap-arse keyboard off someone on Ebay, constitutes a valid assessment of all Blue switches either. Geekhack is notorious in spreading false information as definitive fact, so those that complain suddenly represent 99% of owners on this planet.
Time to get real and not follow blindly into believing that clicky Cherry switches have failed, because you have to dig deeper as to why is it that suddenly no-name Chinese Made cheap copies are now better in "QUALITY"?
This is not just me, though. It's also about all the other people who have had the same problem of non-clicky blue switches. It's about Cherry putting out MX-RGB blues at such low yield that Corsair said f*** it and stopped offering them. It's about Cherry employees going onto Reddit to complain that the machines for making MX Blue switches don't work properly. It's about hearing about so many problems with MX Blue switches that I felt that I had to make a plan in advance of receiving my latest keyboard for what to do if there was a non-clicky switch.
These problems are not limited to low-end manufacturers. These are issues where whole batches of Costar-manufactured keyboards were affected. I should also note that we have to beware of all sorts of biases. We can't just assume that any problem with a Cherry switch keyboard is due to the keyboard's manufacture rather than the switches; nor can we just assume that any problem with a non-Cherry switch keyboard is due to the switches rather than the keyboard's manufacture. And if we want an accurate comparison, we certainly mustn't do both of these things at the same time. Yet, this tends to be how the assumptions go in most keyboard debates.
(On a side note, I'm not sure how much faith I even have in popular perceptions of quality anymore. The only keyboard I've had that's been anything close to reliable has been a Noppoo-- not exactly a top-level brand. The debounce is too aggressive, leading to occasional chatter issues, and there are holes in the bottom where debris can get onto the PCB, leading to more chatter issues, but it's survived a few years and still generally works. But I've also owned, among others, Ducky, Das (one of the Costar ones, from their best years), and Deck keyboards. The Ducky and Das are dead now, and the Deck is being RMA'd with a non-clicky MX Blue switch (and generally inconsistent sound and feel on the other switches-- nowhere even close to the older blues on the Das).)
Edited to add: Of course, it may well be that the degradation of MX Blue machinery and the rise of MX-compatible switches have not yet reached the point where the lines cross-- that is, have not yet reached the point where someone looking for an MX-style blue switch should first consider something other than MX Blue. A lot of the rumors around Kailh switches are pretty negative, and although Gaterons are fast achieving a good reputation, some of the details that I've heard about their physical construction give me worries about their long-term prospects. Greetech and Gaote/Outemu switches are still relatively un-studied, to say nothing of the various still rarer options that deep searches will uncover. But even if the lines have not yet crossed, I can't help but get the impression that they may well do so soon-- at which point the recommendations that we give to quality-minded buyers may have to be rethought.
-
You do understand that I mean: wait until you get any clicky keyboard with superior switches to the Cherry MX, don't you?
IBM Model F > IBM Model M > NMB Hi-Tek black > Alps blue > SMK blue (aka Monterey) > SMK white > Acer > Alps white > etc, etc
Nope, don't really care. My hands aren't so sensitive that I feel a difference. I'm a pretty heavy typer. My Filco is pretty dam good quality and so are the blues that came with it.
There are no "superior switches" its all just personal preference and what we want out of a keyboard. Sooooo yea
-
There are no "superior switches" its all just personal preference
Whoo - hooo !
Everybody add this to your signatures !
-
blues w/ 65g springs are very nice.
Perhaps if Zeals Purple Gaterons take off maybe he can create the next Gateron "MX Green".
Yea, those switches look dope, not cheap though!
Is this speculation or has Zeal released some kind of pricing info? Or is this supposed to be hush-hush...
-
I need to try all the keyboards! I like blues, but from hearing this, I think my next board will probably be clears, or some other switch instead of greens, and that makes me sad.
Keep in mind that every day, there are more people with mechanical keyboards, and more people complaining about things on the internet, so it would be interesting to see what the actual failure rate is for Cherry's switches.
-
There are no "superior switches" its all just personal preference
Whoo - hooo !
Everybody add this to your signatures !
If you haven't experienced it, how can you say it? ESPECIALLY when I see this....
Nope, don't really care. My hands aren't so sensitive that I feel a difference.
Hands? You have to use hands? That's a BABY toy!
-
There are no "superior switches" its all just personal preference
Whoo - hooo !
Everybody add this to your signatures !
Just be happy with the switches you love using. But still placing cheapo chinese-made copies of Cherries into your keyboard........ c'mon you gotta be kidding?
Go for the originals or simply go home 8) .
-
all the switches should be loud
LONG LIVE THE CLICKY KEYSWITCH
It needs to be louder and more tactile. ALPS.
-
It needs to be louder and more tactile. ALPS.
Is there anything even MOAR clicky? Like, what's the clickiest switch ever?
-
It needs to be louder and more tactile. ALPS.
Is there anything even MOAR clicky? Like, what's the clickiest switch ever?
This is a tricky question. Do you mean the loudness of just the clicker or of the whole keypress?
-
This is a tricky question. Do you mean the loudness of just the clicker or of the whole keypress?
Both?
-
In that case, possibly the Model F? Supposedly it's even louder than a Model M, which is louder than almost all my other keyboards...
-
Yes, we should stop. We should never even have started...
Oobly, NOT recommending MX Blues from before it was cool.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/81/818b612f9273716c2737b73975cd3f2cbf3e7bbb738ef8c8e4c3f4e840ca0381.jpg)
-
Clearly, the only reasonable move is for everyone to just get a Model F instead. :3
I didn't notice any problems with the MX Blue board I have other than the problem of me typing like a gorilla to the point where my fingertips hurt.
-
I didn't notice any problems with the MX Blue board I have other than the problem of me typing like a gorilla to the point where my fingertips hurt.
No such thing if you're a Rock-Ape, Cherry Switches are too soft almost like typing with wet tampons that click ;) .
Wish Cherry would finally sell 180g switches because it needs to be made and used by us "Rock-Apes" :thumb: .
-
Try Cherry MY .... 140cn should be enough for a rock-ape
-
i think the Question should goes like (should we discontinue making 104 size ) ;D
-
Although I have owned some boards with mx blues, I sold all of them. In general, Cherry mx of any kind occupy last place in my switch hierarchy. Currently, my ranking is as follows:
Topre 55g > Topre 45g > IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) > Matias Click > Matias Quiet > IBM membrane buckling spring (Model M) >>> Cherry mx.
-
I didn't notice any problems with the MX Blue board I have other than the problem of me typing like a gorilla to the point where my fingertips hurt.
No such thing if you're a Rock-Ape, Cherry Switches are too soft almost like typing with wet tampons that click ;) .
Wish Cherry would finally sell 180g switches because it needs to be made and used by us "Rock-Apes" :thumb: .
"typing with wet tampons" :)) :)) :))
-
My problem with threads like this:
People tend to post on forums about their problems. Which makes it seem like there's a huge issue with whatever they're complaining about. Without knowing the percentage rate of failures, we have no idea just how good or bad a company's manufacturing and QA process is.
The two most common Cherry switches sold today, as far as I can tell, are Reds and Blues. And since there's more Blues out there than, say, Greens, you're going to see more people complaining about Blues.
I'm going to make some numbers up to demonstrate what I'm talking about.
Let's say there are 10 times more people using Blue switches vs Green switches. That means we should see 10 times more people complaining about non-functional switches. Now, if we look at the complaints by themselves, without taking into context how many people use Blues vs Greens, then it would surely look like there's something horribly wrong with the Blue switch manufacturing.
If you take the total number of switches out there for each type, I'm betting that they all have fairly similar failure rates. Click switches, by virtue of being more complex, probably have a slightly higher failure rate than the simpler linear switches, but I doubt its even .1%. Failure rate could be higher on the Cherry manufacturing floor, but QA should weed almost all of the bad ones before shipping.
-
If you take the total number of switches out there for each type, I'm betting that they all have fairly similar failure rates. Click switches, by virtue of being more complex, probably have a slightly higher failure rate than the simpler linear switches, but I doubt its even .1%. Failure rate could be higher on the Cherry manufacturing floor, but QA should weed almost all of the bad ones before shipping.
Actually...
Last year I bought a batch of 100 blues, and out of that batch 3% were bad.
The blues, reds and blacks I had previously bought were attached to keyboards, none were ever bad. Now, maybe their quality control caught them, but while we laughed at them for it, this could be why Razor claimed their switches were hand picked. This could also help explain companies leaving for alternatives, I guarantee you, if the most used component in my product had a 3% failure rate, I would be screaming at the supplier.
-
Is that hard to understand?
You do understand that I mean: wait until you get any clicky keyboard with superior switches to the Cherry MX, don't you?
IBM Model F > IBM Model M > NMB Hi-Tek black > Alps blue > SMK blue (aka Monterey) > SMK white > Acer > Alps white > etc, etc
Damn, you rank SMKs that low?
I've already invested so much, maybe I should have tried some more boards first :'(
-
blues w/ 65g springs are very nice.
68g springs in blues are the best
However, I fell in love with 68g Gateron Blues :( It's such a guilty feeling to love a Cherry Clone
-
To be honest, I don't think that the lightness of the blue switch warrants the click. The click feels like it belongs in a heavier switch
-
PCB-mount greens were perfect last time I tried them, but I also experienced a bad batch of blues recently, actually 2 batches, so I will also stay away from blues forever, they are tainted
Out of 110 greens, most of them clicked, I managed to select 60 that clicked uniformly, which is impressive, the others were ok too, likely 20 were weak clickers, but at least they all clicked
-
The issues with Cherry switches are logical. After patent expiry Cherry had to cut on production costs. Could it be that they moved the manufaction site to another country? Or omit some of the quality control now?
-
IBM Model F > IBM Model M > NMB Hi-Tek black > Alps blue > SMK blue (aka Monterey) > SMK white > Acer > Alps white > etc, etc
Damn, you rank SMKs that low?
"Low" is a relative term on that rarefied list.
Note that Cherry and most everything else did not even rate a mention.
This morning I would probably move Model M to below Hi-Tek black and Alps blue, but maybe it's my mood.
-
The issues with Cherry switches are logical. After patent expiry Cherry had to cut on production costs. Could it be that they moved the manufaction site to another country? Or omit some of the quality control now?
It's not logical at all, after patent expiry, and with a re-igniting and growing mech market, it would have been logical to innovate further, increase QC
We're living in a world where people spend even thousands on computing a year, they could even get away with $1/switch if they produced a pre-lubed special switch for example, yet all they do is lower the quality, not logical at all
-
How come blue's suffer from quality and greens not? its the same switch but stronger spring (or am i wrong?)
-
So a recent run-in with a blue switch on a brand new, high-quality keyboard that failed to click has gotten me thinking...
How much longer before we hit the point where we have to start telling people to consider equivalent switches from MX-compatible manufacturers instead?
Now, I'm not saying that we're necessarily at that point yet-- I would want a lot more data about the alternatives, especially Gateron, Greetech, and Outemu (Gaote), before recommending them over Cherry-- but I can't help but feel like, in the absence of some corrective action from Cherry, the days when the MX Blue switch can be recommended in good faith to a prospective keyboard buyer will draw to a close in the not too distant future. What say ye?
So you got stuck with a dodgey keyboard and now it looks like all of Cherry Manufacturing has collapsed in quality - Time to wake up sunshine because every Blue, Green, Clear, White, Tactile Grey and Brown switch Made by Cherry Corp is alive and clicking beautifully at my home in a variety of keyboards. Mind you I still love Filcos (TKLs and Fullsized) over most other mechanical keyboards but all of them still work nicely as my Wife can attest, down the hall when she hears my claw tapping at night.
Never go down that route of blaming a whole company because you received a dud keyboard, simply RMA it also don't go into believing that buying a cheap-arse keyboard off someone on Ebay, constitutes a valid assessment of all Blue switches either. Geekhack is notorious in spreading false information as definitive fact, so those that complain suddenly represent 99% of owners on this planet.
Time to get real and not follow blindly into believing that clicky Cherry switches have failed, because you have to dig deeper as to why is it that suddenly no-name Chinese Made cheap copies are now better in "QUALITY"?
It's about Cherry employees going onto Reddit to complain that the machines for making MX Blue switches don't work properly.
That falls on Cherry's maint department. Unless the machines are in such a state of disrepair, that they do need replacing. I will have you know that every manufacturing line, except for discreet ics, go down every shift for one reason note another. It could simply be that they need new molds, or have their tool and die department do some repair work.
Though if they are getting to many orders in for these switches, they may not be able to budget the time to take the machines down for that level of repair work.
I work on production machinery in facilities ranging from nuclear power houses, to grain processing facilities. Down time for machines costs money at alarming rates. While I was at the John Deere Foundry in Waterloo, IA working for an outside contractor, it was nothing for the line to go down for 2 hours plus.
Thhose Olds are muchore expensive than what people realize. If you ask SP to make a new mold for a different cap size for a specific row that they don't have a mold for, that will CST you in excess of $3,000.
-
I agree on this issue to some extent but I never really recommend blues anyways.
Most of the issues I've had with mechanicals is mostly with blues. From total inconsistency in sound and feel to just non-functionality with some. This doesn't just include Razer boards either.
The inconsistency annoys the bejesus out of me. Is this due to quality control issues in manufacturing or just plain old design issues? idk
These days, I would say Clear MX is the way to go.
-
To be honest, I don't think that the lightness of the blue switch warrants the click. The click feels like it belongs in a heavier switch
This is actually why I prefer the Kailh blues in my Poseidon Z to the MX blues in my Blackwidow 2013. The switches are slightly lighter, which is nice, but the reduced amount of click means that I can use the keyboard for way longer without feeling fatigued, while the Blackwidow had me a bit tired after a couple of hours.
These days, I would say Clear MX is the way to go.
I've been shopping around for one of these for a while, but they're just so expensive compared to something with blues, especially if you're willing to consider clones...