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geekhack Community => New Members => Topic started by: DrDan on Sat, 15 August 2015, 16:31:40
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After treating hundreds of people with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, I concluded that the real problem was not the shape of the keyboard, but rather the cumulative impact of the keys, bottoming-out. There are many other factors that I have since discovered, however, when attempting to bring this technology to the market 15 years ago, there was not much listening there. I just found this board today, and you guys give me hope, once again. As it was more than a decade ago, I am still hopeful that a keyboard that does not do damage to people's lives, becomes the standard.
I am hoping to collaborate with someone to help design the "next generation" of keyboards. There are many improvements to be made to current technology, and I do not have the funds or the resources to implement them all.
I contacted a few manufacturers in China and the States, but the only real player was Microsoft, and they were still convinced that the angled keyboard was the way to go. That was more than 10 years ago, and they could not have been more wrong. Still are. Maybe they are waiting for my patent to expire. I don't know. But I do see that they created their own version of "no impact" keys.
After some consideration, I do believe that the keyboard realm could be more of a brand-building exercise. There are a few "boutique" brand leaders. However, I am looking to do something totally radical, however, it could save a lot of lives- literally, those whose lives depend on their ability to type. ;D
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Welcome to Geekhack!
Worthy goals, although perhaps aiming very high in the sky?
There are certainly many individuals here with considerable technical skills, and also quite a few manufacturers and vendors have representatives who visit from time to time, so almost anything is possible.
Having a browse through making stuff together (https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=117.0) might give you some idea of the kinds of things people around here build.
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Hi Dan.
I'll just link for the lazy.
Low impact https://www.google.com/patents/US5933133
No impact http://www.google.com/patents/US6497521
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Welcome Dan, manufacturing costs have surely fallen significantly in the past 10 years so I hope you can make some progress on this :)
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Welcome Dan! I think you will fit right in. There have been lots of discussions (and arguments) about ergonomics around here.
Most people here are afficionados of keyboards with mechanical key switches, and almost all mechanical key switches register a key press at around half-way down the stroke, obviating the need for bottoming out (unless the force/travel curve makes you overshoot too easily).
The most popular ones are still of a quite early design, stemming back to the 1970s, and back then almost all keyboard switches had either multiple mechanical parts, or they had two resisting elements where one was for general resistance and the other for cushioning after actuation.
My favourite keyboard switch is the Cherry MX Clear (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Clear) because it is both tactile and because pressing below the actuation point requires increasingly higher force, cushioning the stroke. The tactility comes from a plastic bump sliding against a metal part, and the cushioning comes only from the coiled spring inside being relatively short: shorter springs yield steeper force/travel curves.
It has become popular among modders here to replace the spring in the Cherry MX Clear for lighter ones, but I think those people just don't get the point...
Unfortunately, that switch is relatively loud on topping up, by today's standards. There can also be a gritty feeling when plastic slides against metal inside the switch mechanism, which also makes it a bit louder than the norm.
However, I believe that the same force/travel characteristics could also be achieved in a switch by having both a coiled spring and a buckling rubber dome in parallel, in a manner like you have done.
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Unfortunately, that switch is relatively loud on topping up, by today's standards.
However, I believe that the same force/travel characteristics could also be achieved in a switch by having both a coiled spring and a buckling rubber dome in parallel, in a manner like you have done.
I would love to see someone make keys quieter on the upstroke. While tactility and (less importantly, to me at least) sound help touch typists feel where actuation occurs, the noise and force of topping out makes no useful contribution.
A light touch is nice, and I agree that a spring requiring progressively more force after actuation is ideal, but O-rings at the bottom are excellent cheap easy shock absorbers. I don't like the action of collapsing a rubber dome, in general, but if you got the springs right, there would be no need for it at all.
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I wonder if revisiting 4mm of travel would be helpful. How about a keyboard that has say 10mm of travel, progressively increasing to something like 200g of force to bottom it out, with actuation about 1mm in? If the bottoming out is the real problem this would work to slow the fingers and end up bottoming out way beyond what most keyboards to today.
I agree with findecantor's Cherry MX Clear comments above, I almost never bottom them out!
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I wonder if it would be possible to make some sort of "open bottom" mechanism, where the only real bottoming out would be if you pushed the key so far down that it struck the plate. Something like an optical sensor, for example, could work with that.
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While tactility and (less importantly, to me at least) sound help touch typists feel where actuation occurs, the noise and force of topping out makes no useful contribution.
I agree completely. The loudest sound a key makes should be at the actuation.
That is (part of) why I have installed O-rings in my Cherry MX Blues. A key should have one click, not an additional clack sound only on some key presses.
Although.. by today's standards, keyboards have to quite silent overall to be accepted at workplaces/by spouses, etc. and it might be better to make click sounds optional, through solenoids, speaker in keyboard or through the computer's audio output.
I don't like the action of collapsing a rubber dome, in general, but if you got the springs right, there would be no need for it at all.
I intended the rubber dome only for tactile response quite high up in the stroke.
I once took apart a Key Tronic foam-and-foil with buckling rubber sleeves. There is foam at the bottom of each slider to dampen bottoming out, and for allowing actuation to occur as soon as the foam touches the underlying PCB. The foam dampening feels horribly mushy.
I removed the PCB and put plinths underneath so that the foam does not touch anything .. and it was great to type on. Did not work (of course) but it felt great... at least when compared to fully assembled.
I wonder if revisiting 4mm of travel would be helpful.
I think that even 5 mm ( 3mm after actuation) would be awesome.
I am not too sure about modifiers though... If the bottom is too mushy or too hard then the key could be too hard to hold down.