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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: yoobe on Tue, 25 August 2015, 13:54:40
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Hi all,
After using a CM Storm Rapid-i and Filco Minila Air.. I jumped in programmable keyboards with an ErgoDox.
I like very much the ergodox and I am playing with new layout..
After checking many layout made by the community and my needs, I finished to define a project I will try to do..
I based the layout on the minila air/FC660 etc + extra keys
here is the result:
[attach=1]
The main ideas of the project:
- Compact layout (60% is to small, tkl to much..)
- Macro keys on the left (good feedback from gamers)
- Arrow keys with home/end combo
- 1.75u right shift... 1u on the minila is bad experience for me
- 1.25u left shift + 1u key : 1 bonus key in the layout
- ESC key on number row, I like this on the minila
- 1u backslash with ~/` move here: I am used to this now on the minila.. not big deal
- +/- key on the bottom row, for layer switch
- 2 FN key around the space bar, (layer toogle) to use both hands for F keys for example.. only 1FN key is not enough for me
- Extra keys on the right side.. copy/paste/pgUp/pgDw/Ins/Del etc... Usefull for my daily programmer life...
- I don't use the right alt, win, menu, ctrl in general use.. but they can be added on different layer?
- other programmable keys for bluetooth on/off, paring, lcd on/off
HW part:- I am planning to use the adafruit Bluefruit LE Micro (based on atmega32u4 and BLE chip) http://www.adafruit.com/product/2661 (http://www.adafruit.com/product/2661)
- Monochrome 128x32 I2C OLED graphic display for layer info, battery level, other info? https://www.adafruit.com/products/931 (https://www.adafruit.com/products/931)
- Battery and charger http://www.adafruit.com/product/328 (http://www.adafruit.com/product/328) / https://www.adafruit.com/product/2124 (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2124)
- No PCB yet :( not in my skills
- Custom made Plate on this website http://builder.swillkb.com/ (http://builder.swillkb.com/)
- plate mounted MX Red switch with mini pcb
- handwire...
- DSA or SA keycaps
[attach=2]
What do you think?
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Price list for 1 keyboard..
plate : $55 ?
bottom plate : $10 ?
OLED graphic display : $26.95
Bluefruit LE Micro : $26.95
Lithium Ion Polymer Battery 2500mAh : $14.95
LiIon/LiPoly Backpack Add-On : $4.95
Plate Assembly Kit : $3
Cherry Plate-mounted Stabilizer: $3.00
80 Mx Red switches : $48.00
Diodes : $9
Keycaps : depends... TKL with extra should be enough..
Total : $201,8 + keycaps + shipping (let say 50$)
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Update about this project:
I modified my goal :
- 65% Neutrino board (to start with a prototype)
- USB/BLE hid device... use both
- Battery
- USB hub included
- OLED lcd
- Home made firmware
After searching a lot of information I decided to order:
- nrf51822 board (32bit ARM Cortex-M0 16Mhz with BLE with lots of GPIOs) for 16$ with dev. board on ebay. the same soc used in the adafruit without the Atmel chip which is not usefull and consume power
- Neutrino Plate from http://ortholinearkeyboards.com/top-plates/neutrino-top-plate.. this is close to my final board..
- Mx Red switches (and some greetech switches to test)
- 0.96" OLED screen (SPI/I2C interface)
- cables, soldering iron etc..
- J-Link Programmer/Debugger for NRF51822
- EVE dsa keycaps
- usb charger, battery, usb hub...
I am still planning to handwire the switches (hope it will do it)
Next step for Firmware:
Use the mbed.org to write my framework to control the matrix, USB, BLE and LCD.
I will probably look at the code of existing firmware like tmk (which support the arm cortex)
I will update this thread if anyone is interested... please tell me.
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A bit different from Matt3os interest check (soon GB) on Deskthority. I really dig the buttons on the side, but I need that damn F-row. I wish you good luck with this!
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I think this layout is called 65%. Looks good!
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Hi I have just joined the forum, I got curious to making BLE keyboard but I am a NOOB so not sure where to start.
I have ordered some parts so until they arrive I am planning to do some study on the programming part.
I looked at ones controlled by teensy with tmk keyboard firmware but I am new to all this so arduino again seems like another forrest to me haha..
Anyway I'll keep following your build.
Cheers!
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So you are not using the Bluefruit LE anymore?
What firmware are you planning to use/modify, or are you going to write it yourself?
I'm wondering because I'm planning to do a similar thing using the Bluefruit LE, hopefully using modified TMK firmware.
Edit: Oops just read your messages more thoroughly... You're doing your own fw...
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Hey, I was working on an IC with a layout very similar to this, love to see that more than one person had the idea. Really like the f keys on the left, but personally I'd prefer two rows of f keys instead of 1. Anyways, I'd love to collaborate if you're interested, but even if not, I'll definitely pick up a kit if this reaches GB stage.
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Hi I have just joined the forum, I got curious to making BLE keyboard but I am a NOOB so not sure where to start.
I have ordered some parts so until they arrive I am planning to do some study on the programming part.
I looked at ones controlled by teensy with tmk keyboard firmware but I am new to all this so arduino again seems like another forrest to me haha..
Anyway I'll keep following your build.
Cheers!
This will be my first custom keyboard also..
I dont think the programming is difficult (compared to products I am working on at work..)
I will start with small prototype and will see how it goes..
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So you are not using the Bluefruit LE anymore?
What firmware are you planning to use/modify, or are you going to write it yourself?
I'm wondering because I'm planning to do a similar thing using the Bluefruit LE, hopefully using modified TMK firmware.
Edit: Oops just read your messages more thoroughly... You're doing your own fw...
Yes if you check in detail the Bluefruit LE is a atmega32u4 and a nrf51822 but you only have access to the atmega for programming and using gpios. The nrf51822 is more powerful and less consuming soc with more GPIO.
Comparison table:
[attachimg=1]
Note : The Bluefruit LE contains a nrf51822 for BLE only and is not usable directly. User is limited to atmega32u4 MCU only.
This table could contain errors.. this is made quickly with googling..
So for a BLE HID device, I believe nrf51822 is better than the Bleufruit LE micro.. Just my opinion :)
But there is no easy solution to copy/paste a firmware and adapt it... Need more investment on this side.
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Hey, I was working on an IC with a layout very similar to this, love to see that more than one person had the idea. Really like the f keys on the left, but personally I'd prefer two rows of f keys instead of 1. Anyways, I'd love to collaborate if you're interested, but even if not, I'll definitely pick up a kit if this reaches GB stage.
The left side for me is really for macro programming.. I am planning to have a PC tool to define macro and send it to the device directly..
My F keys will be on the number row with FN (I like this on my ergodox and minila air)
But it is possible to have an extra column on the left to have 10 M keys..
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Yes if you check in detail the Bluefruit LE is a atmega32u4 and a nrf51822 but you only have access to the atmega for programming and using gpios. The nrf51822 is more powerful and less consuming soc with more GPIO.
Comparison table:
(Attachment Link)
Note : The Bluefruit LE contains a nrf51822 for BLE only and is not usable directly. User is limited to atmega32u4 MCU only.
This table could contain errors.. this is made quickly with googling..
So for a BLE HID device, I believe nrf51822 is better than the Bleufruit LE micro.. Just my opinion :)
But there is no easy solution to copy/paste a firmware and adapt it... Need more investment on this side.
Nice. Sounds like you've done your research. Should be a nice project. That SoC does look better on paper.
I wouldn't be prepared to write my own fw completely, too steep a learning curve. I'm pretty new to C, I think I should be just able to manage to modify TMK successfully though.
I'm no longer interested in staggered boards, only matrix ones. I find it too hard to switch back to staggered now.
I hope you will share your firmware when it's done or at least usable or even just interesting to play around with.
What we need is a standard community matrix connector so it's easy to swap controllers. I did read a thread suggesting that a while back but I don't think anything ever came of it.
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Yes if you check in detail the Bluefruit LE is a atmega32u4 and a nrf51822 but you only have access to the atmega for programming and using gpios. The nrf51822 is more powerful and less consuming soc with more GPIO.
Comparison table:
(Attachment Link)
Note : The Bluefruit LE contains a nrf51822 for BLE only and is not usable directly. User is limited to atmega32u4 MCU only.
This table could contain errors.. this is made quickly with googling..
So for a BLE HID device, I believe nrf51822 is better than the Bleufruit LE micro.. Just my opinion :)
But there is no easy solution to copy/paste a firmware and adapt it... Need more investment on this side.
Nice. Sounds like you've done your research. Should be a nice project. That SoC does look better on paper.
I wouldn't be prepared to write my own fw completely, too steep a learning curve. I'm pretty new to C, I think I should be just able to manage to modify TMK successfully though.
I'm no longer interested in staggered boards, only matrix ones. I find it too hard to switch back to staggered now.
I hope you will share your firmware when it's done or at least usable or even just interesting to play around with.
What we need is a standard community matrix connector so it's easy to swap controllers. I did read a thread suggesting that a while back but I don't think anything ever came of it.
The TMK firmware and kiiboh (https://github.com/kiibohd/controller) are compatible with Cortex-M0. It is possible to use them and add support for BLE
See here for TMK that is using mbed (as I plan to use..)
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/tree/fdce0c9cc0b7f8e9f1497cae3ea63a6672ceaf71/tmk_core/tool/mbed
https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard/issues/140
TMK is not limited to atmega32u4.
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I'm no longer interested in staggered boards, only matrix ones. I find it too hard to switch back to staggered now.
You could prepare your own layout and use the same firmware.. The code is not aware about the layout, only the matrix.. I am planning to have a configuration file/function where you define le pin name for colums/rows.
I hope you will share your firmware when it's done or at least usable or even just interesting to play around with.
I am learning a lot from the communities, I believe I will search what I am doing in return..
What we need is a standard community matrix connector so it's easy to swap controllers. I did read a thread suggesting that a while back but I don't think anything ever came of it.
I hope to solve this only in the firmware... define the pin name and their role..
The draft I made for my firmware is to separate the configuration from the code itself..
- The firmware will manage the USB HID, BLE HID, OLED screen, KB Matrix, EEPROM? kind of generic multi-purpose firmware. Modular architecture.
- Send to the keyboard the configuration with BLE/USB. Kind of UART over USB or BLE. No need to flash the whole firmware for each key remap.. Config stored in a eeprom..
- Make a tool with .Net C# or Php on a webpage: configure the keyboard matrix (pins) and layouts with macro creation. Would be easy to pre-load common layout (60%-75%-etc)
This is my ideas, I will need to see what is possible once I receive the hardware. I believe all of this is possible with time.
I am interested to use mbed OS and Cortex-M soc for many projects, so I will study it deeply.
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Update:
I reworked a bit the layout:
[attachimg=1]
- Split the space bar 2X2.75u : possible to assign backspace to one of them or use 2 space bar
- Tried to integrate the OLED in the layout to avoid to have bigger keyboard
- moved the |\ like on the ISO keyboard
- backspace moved
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Update :
I received part of my orders:
- OLED RGB screen 0.96"
- NRF51822 board and dev. board
- J-Link programmer
- and few other things. cables,
still waiting for the plate and switches...
Here is the first YooKB 0.0.1 Beta :) I made a small demo to use the OLED screen : a box and HELLO :D
[attach=1]
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To be honest I would kind of prefer a single space bar, unless the plate would be compatible with both a normal and split space bar.
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Updates:
- I received my Neutrinos plate.. started the soldering job of my greetech switches
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3][attach=4][attach=5]
Red for alpha and black for control keys...
- I played with nrf51822 for starting the BLE HID and matrix scanner.. the demo is fine.. need to convert all to clean code.
- I received a teensy 3.2 and LC..
- I ordered some BLE/Bluetooth board for testing Bluetooth HID (HC-06) and BLE HID (NRF24L01, CC2540).. I plan to support Bluetooth and BLE with function to switch from one to other..
- I received a TI TCA8424 chip (hid keyboard scanner) and some QFN40 to DIP 32/40 Adapter to play with..
Next steps:
- Finish the hand wiring of the neutrino
- Make a full demo with mbed/nrf51822/attiny85 to have BLE/USB keyboard
- Make a full demo with teensy3.2/LC to have USB/BLE/Bluetooth keyboard
- Implement useful OLED screen usage (library for both demo)
- Make a demo with TCA8424 chip connected to Nrf51822 or/and Teensy 3.2
After this done... I could finish the layout of the YooKB-80 and order plates.. hand-wire it and publish all source/demos..
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Interesting project, wish you success with the new layout. I gather from your post you are not 100% committed to MX Red. If that is correct, perhaps order a few Gateron Clear switches to see whether you like them. Some might find them too light, but boy are they smooth.
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Interesting project, wish you success with the new layout. I gather from your post you are not 100% committed to MX Red. If that is correct, perhaps order a few Gateron Clear switches to see whether you like them. Some might find them too light, but boy are they smooth.
Thanks for the advice.. I saw on some threads that the Gateron are nice and I like light keys...
For the moment I ordered 1000 switches from Greetech factory.. 250 of each: Red/Black/Brown/Blue.. I have enough for prototyping..
I am testing Red/Black mix to see if different feeling for control keys is useful, not sure yet.
Once firmware/demo is ready I could play with more switches :)
I am a bit slow compared to other experts.. this is my first mechanical keyboard build btw.
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Update Layout..
[attach=1]
Played with bottom buttons
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This is really cool! Definitely will be watching :cool:
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A little concerned about the width of the space bars on the new layout. Not sure you'll be able to find caps for those.
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It is 2x2.75u which exist in dsa as shift button and blank
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It is 2x2.75u which exist in dsa as shift button and blank
Oh, duh, forgot that you'd be using DSA.
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Update:
What I have done since last update:
- Soldering of the switches is done 15x5 matrix.. I made simple version for this prototype.. The matrix could be optimized to use less pin
- Connected the matrix to the nrf51822 with a breadboard
- Made the code for the scanner with the debounce algorithm. (using mbed)
- Display on the OLED screen the pressed keys while scanning
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
Next step:
- Cleanup the code and make a scanner class and a configurable keyboard mapping
- Multiple layer code
- Merge BLE keyboard code with this one to have keycode sent to PC/Tablet
- Connect to a attiny85 board to send keycode over USB Hid
- Use the OLED to display :
- Layer information
- BLE/USB connection info
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What a neat project! Def following your progress.
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This is definetely an interesting project. I'm loving the combination of BLE+unique layout+LED. You're combining lots of cool things. Definitely going to keep an eye on this.
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sub'd
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i like this. Please make it fancy :)
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yeah, following this... like a fc660 almost but the macros <3
do want.
good work.
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Hey,
What firmware do you plan on using with your teensy 3.2?
I am working on converting an old Wheelwriter 1000 board and I got a teensy 3.2 for my microcontroller. I was planning on writing something with tmk_keyboard, but it appears to only be compatible with teensy and teensy 2 (I wasn't aware of this at the time of purchasing the 3.2). Just curious if you were planning on writing something from the ground up or if you were going to work with a pre-existing framework.
Thanks.
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Hey,
What firmware do you plan on using with your teensy 3.2?
I am working on converting an old Wheelwriter 1000 board and I got a teensy 3.2 for my microcontroller. I was planning on writing something with tmk_keyboard, but it appears to only be compatible with teensy and teensy 2 (I wasn't aware of this at the time of purchasing the 3.2). Just curious if you were planning on writing something from the ground up or if you were going to work with a pre-existing framework.
Thanks.
I think TMK supports teensy 3.2 with the one button keyboard project. It is using mbed libraries. This is what I saw in the code. You could ask hasu for this in his thread.
For my part, I am writing a firmware from scratch using mbed.org that will support nrf51822 and teensy 3.2
I checked TMK, Arduino IDE and Mbed and I prefer mbed for this due to C++ environment. I am developing with ARM GCC with eclipse on my PC but I upload my source in mbed.org because the online compiler is optimized by ARM and generate smaller and better hex file.
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Update:
I have some health issues to manage so I had no time to work a lot on this project last month.
I will have time in December with 3 weeks of holiday.
Next step in December:
- Finalize the firmware on the nrf51822 to have the BLE HID done. (prototype is ready)
- Add the attiny85 for USB HID. (prototype is ready)
In parallel, I have 4 boards with TI tca8424, I need to try this to see how it works.