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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 09:08:32

Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 09:08:32
So, I'll tell you right out:
There is no reliable way to tell which kind of MX switch is used in a Cherry keyboard from the Model number.

I discovered this from a Cherry employee.

This is how the model numbering scheme actually works:
Quote
G8x-yyyyzabcc-d

G8x  = Keyswitch technology used
yyyy = General layout of keyboard
z    = type of keycap (lettering)
a    = type of connector (AT, PS2, USB)
b    = amount of keys and/or technical revisions
cc   = language
d    = color (-0 is light gray, -2 is black)
[/SIZE][/FONT]

In light of this, I have asked this employee if there is a global Cherry distributor that we might be able to get Cherry keyboards from.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 10:02:32
Apparently there isn't a global distributor, but here's a few US distributors:

http://www.datacal.com/c-224-zf-electronics-cherry.aspx

http://www.buy.com/retail/usersearchResults.asp?qu=Cherry&store=1&als=3&loc=101&em01=188303&pageTitle=Cherry

And an easy ebay search:
http://computers.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Cherry&_sacat=3676&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&_odkw=&_osacat=3676
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 16 October 2009, 10:10:14
There are a lot of Cherry keyboards to be had, but our market is woefully lacking in G80 models.  The best ones readily available to us are the G80-3000s with browns (Datacal) and blues (Gemini, etc.).  There are a lot of specialized POS models out there and server 'boards, but not much in the way of "regular" keyboards (i.e. the 3000 and 1800 layouts).
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 10:27:33
Quote from: itlnstln;125982
There are a lot of Cherry keyboards to be had, but our market is woefully lacking in G80 models.  The best ones readily available to us are the G80-3000s with browns (Datacal) and blues (Gemini, etc.).  There are a lot of specialized POS models out there and server 'boards, but not much in the way of "regular" keyboards (i.e. the 3000 and 1800 layouts).

And the only keyboards that have double-shot keys are G81s
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 16 October 2009, 10:41:50
Quote from: ripster;125989
Maybe in your searches here but in Euroland you can find doubleshot G80s. Might be time to learn German.

That would be nice.  I wonder if they make them with an ANSI layout (and US legends) and full-color logos.
 
Wunderbar!
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: konz on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:05:03
The German Cherry Web site lists different product codes for "linear" (black? LPC), "Soft Druckpunkt" (brown? LQC), and "Klick Druckpunkt" (blue? LSC) G80-3000.

See http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/alle_produkte_business_G80-3000.htm (http://www.cherry.de/deutsch/produkte/alle_produkte_business_G80-3000.htm) and open the "Ausführungsvarianten" tab.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:14:01
As far as I can see, the only bad news here is that timw4mail hasn't read the appropriate wiki article...

Quote
The German Cherry Web site lists different product codes for "linear" (black? LPC), "Soft Druckpunkt" (brown? LQC), and "Klick Druckpunkt" (blue? LSC) G80-3000.

I was thinking the same, having read some of their product catalogs from their site... I'm pretty sure there is some system in place for figuring out what switches are used.

EDIT: Check the wiki articled linked below.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:16:13
Quote from: ch_123;126007
As far as I can see, the only bad news here is that timw4mail hasn't read the appropriate wiki article...

I read, and edited the wiki article.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:29:06
Wrong wiki, I was talking about this one. (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Dating+Cherry+keyboards)

The guide in that wiki is definitely correct, and corresponds with Cherry's catalogs, and model codes of keyboards I've seen on online retailers.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:35:04
Quote from: timw4mail;125962
G8x-yyyyzabcc-d

G8x = Keyswitch technology used
yyyy = General layout of keyboard
z = type of keycap (lettering)
a = type of connector (AT, PS2, USB)
b = amount of keys and/or technical revisions
cc = language
d = color (-0 is light gray, -2 is black)
Not correct. (a) is the switch type and (b) is the connector, currently C for combo usb/ps2.

Quote from: timw4mail;125985
And the only keyboards that have double-shot keys are G81s
Not correct either. My G80-5000 for ex. has double-shot keys. Like my G80-0349.

Quote from: timw4mail
I read, and edited the wiki article.
Now, what exactly did you change in the Wiki?
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:37:24
Quote from: lowpoly;126016
Not correct. (a) is the switch type and (b) is the connector, currently C for combo usb/ps2.


Not correct either. My G80-5000 for ex. has double-shot keys. And my G80-0349.

Now, what did you change in the Wiki?

I'm just going by what was said to me. If it is incorrect, then Cherry must be confused about their own part number scheme.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:37:37
The "Dating Cherry..." wiki hasn't been changed in over a week, so I'm not sure which one he edited.

Quote
If it is incorrect, then Cherry must be confused about their own part number scheme.

Or at least the person you were talking to on the phone didn't really know their stuff.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:39:03
Quote from: ch_123;126019
The "Dating Cherry..." wiki hasn't been changed in over a week, so I'm not sure which one he edited.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:41:49
Please undo that (history tab).
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 16 October 2009, 11:44:44
Fixed it.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 12:02:17
Quote from: ripster;126031
Did he/she have a German accent?

This sounds like the Mythical Custom Brown Cherry Swith Found ONLY In Our Keyboards story that the Manuf Rep talked about.

It was an email correspondence.

Here was my original inquiry:
Quote
Question:
---------

Could you describe how the Cherry keyboard model number system works?


From what I do understand:
G80 = MX
G81 = MY
G84 = ML

I have a

G81-1800HQAUS - which has Double-shot keys, and MY switches, in a US
layout

And I have a
G80-8963LUBUS-2 - which has Lasered keys, MX soft tactile switches, in a
US layout

So, from this, I assume:

G8X-NNNNZZTLL

with x being switch type,
n being the basic configuration of the keys,
z being the key lettering type
t being the sub-type of switches
l being the localized layout of the keyboard.

Is this correct? and if so, How are the different subtypes of MX
switches lettered?
And here was their response:

Quote
Show Image
(http://mail.google.com/a/timshomepage.net/images/cleardot.gif)
Show Image
(http://mail.google.com/a/timshomepage.net/images/cleardot.gif)
Ed Ferraton

 to tim
show details 3:12 PM (21 hours ago)


Tim,

You are close.

G8x-yyyyzabcc-d

G8x  = Keyswitch technology used
yyyy = General layout of keyboard
z    = type of keycap (lettering)
a    = type of connector (AT, PS2, USB)
b    = amount of keys and/or technical revisions
cc   = language
d    = color (-0 is light gray, -2 is black)
Again, just passing on information that I was given.

Here is his title:
Quote
Cherry Senior CID Technical Services

ZF Electronics Corporation
11200 88th Avenue
Pleasant Prairie WI 53158
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 16 October 2009, 12:09:59
Quote from: lowpoly;126016
Not correct either. My G80-5000 for ex. has double-shot keys. Like my G80-0349.

To be fair, lowpoly, I believe tim was speaking to the keyboards readily available in the US.  The point being that more options are available in Europe and Asia.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 12:13:01
Quote from: itlnstln;126050
To be fair, lowpoly, I believe tim was speaking to the keyboards readily available in the US.  The point being that more options are available in Europe and Asia.

Yes, that was just my experience in trying to find a keyboard with double-shot keys. All I could find were G81s, hence why I have a G81.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: JBert on Fri, 16 October 2009, 13:22:53
He's right that Cherry doesn't have a unique way to mark switch types for the whole MX keyboard range.
Each G80-xxxx model will probably have its own way of naming things, with the G80-3000 using the known characters.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 16 October 2009, 13:35:16
Quote from: itlnstln;126050
To be fair, lowpoly, I believe tim was speaking to the keyboards readily available in the US.  The point being that more options are available in Europe and Asia.


Well, the keyboards I mentioned aren't readily available here either. :-)
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 16 October 2009, 13:40:34
Quote from: ripster;126108
What's worse is the Blue Cherry $65 chinese lettered items seem to be out of stock. Gemini Computers has been out of stock for quite a while now. (http://www.geminicomputersinc.com/g80-3000lscrc-2.html)
 
I've been thinking that it was such an anomaly as if Cherry had a surplus supply and had to dump them.
 
Still don't understand why Datacal can't just order some with US labels just like their browns. It's called a "Custom Order" but probably like a 20 piece minimum so there's little risk on their part.

I guess at that point, though, is would you pay $100 for one. I mean, I did, and I think it's well worth it, but I am not sure if many others will. For a few bucks more you can get a Filco which is smaller, heavier and plate-mounted. For a few bucks more than that, you can get NKRO or a Tenkeyless.
 
For me, the "advantages" for the Filcos are not worth it as I prefer the overall typing experience on the Cherry moreso than the Filco, but I know that many others would rather "trade up" to the Filco at that price point. I think the reason so many people jumped on the G80-3000 with blues was due to the lack of blue Cherry Filcos awhile back, and the ~$60 price point (moreso the price point, IMO).
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 16 October 2009, 13:56:52
Quote from: JBert;126099
He's right that Cherry doesn't have a unique way to mark switch types for the whole MX keyboard range.
Each G80-xxxx model will probably have its own way of naming things, with the G80-3000 using the known characters.


I'm going to paddle back a bit here. The code decipher in the first post doesn't fit current G80-3000s. It may fit older 'boards.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 16 October 2009, 14:01:45
My intention was to clarify in a general matter. Why the assumption that I was only talking about the G80-3000?
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 16 October 2009, 15:34:55
I didn't assume the 3000. I may have assumed you were talking of current 'boards because you were asking that same employee for a distributor.

Here is how it works, quotes from keyb_gr's brilliant wiki entry (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Dating+Cherry+keyboards):

We're talking of 5 digit suffixes, introduced in 1996:

G80-nnnnXYZAA

And we're only talking about Y and Z.

Quote from: wiki
YZ: Switch type (G80) + connection + #keys spec -- confusing.

Y for G80:
  • A, E, F: MX black, clear, blue switches, DIN connector, long coiled cable; equiv. to former A, E, F
  • K: Apparently indicates MX brown switches (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://blog.dengzhe.com/article.asp?id=254), presumably with DIN plug
  • P, Q, S: As A/E/F, but PS/2 connector (or combo)
  • R: MX brown switches (e.g. G80-8113), PS/2 (or combo)
  • U: As P, but USB only
  • V, W, X, Y: Seems to indicate MX clear,  (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://blog.dengzhe.com/article.asp?id=254) blue, brown and red switches (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=82360&postcount=5) in OEM boards
Both switch and connector information are coded into 'Y', with connector information not always unambiguous. Lots of switch info here.

Quote from: wiki
Z for G80:
  • A: 101/102-key
  • M: 104/105-key
  • C: 104/105-key, USB / PS/2 combo board
  • N: with N-key rollover (source (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://blog.dengzhe.com/article.asp?id=254))
Key # and more connector info here. For ex. if you have a G80-3000LSCEU and a G80-3000LSMEU, then Z will tell you what connection you have.

There are exceptions. :-)
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: Xero on Wed, 21 October 2009, 17:29:12
I have some sort of bad news as well. I tried to order a g80-3000lscrc-2 (the one with the blue cherries) from barcodediscount.com (they actually called me, seems like they have good support). They didn't have any in stock (I figured that would be the case, but they listed having 3 in stock on the site). ETA was late January and the guy made it sound like the hold up is entirely at cherry's production line. They had some G81-1800's in stock though if anyone's looking for those. From the sound of it, the delays extended from december now onto january.

regardless, I will not give up my quest to obtain a g80-3000 with blue cherries. I do love my one with browns too, though.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 21 October 2009, 18:56:19
Quote from: Xero;127494
I have some sort of bad news as well. I tried to order a g80-3000lscrc-2 (the one with the blue cherries) from barcodediscount.com (they actually called me, seems like they have good support). They didn't have any in stock (I figured that would be the case, but they listed having 3 in stock on the site). ETA was late January and the guy made it sound like the hold up is entirely at cherry's production line. They had some G81-1800's in stock though if anyone's looking for those. From the sound of it, the delays extended from december now onto january.

regardless, I will not give up my quest to obtain a g80-3000 with blue cherries. I do love my one with browns too, though.


If you want double-shot caps, G81s seem to be the easiest way...just make sure that it doesn't have an "L" as the first letter of the model number, it will be an "H". That's about the extent of my knowledge of their mysterious part numbers.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 22 October 2009, 02:50:54
Quote from: ripster;125989
Maybe in your searches here but in Euroland you can find doubleshot G80s.  Might be time to learn German.

We have some German members on the forum. Maybe we can start an international buying service and some group buys. A little help?!

Quote from: ripster;125989
Whatever happened to that Chinese guy that was going to  give us leads on the dye sublimated ones?

He got sublimated and dyed.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: Hakhu on Thu, 22 October 2009, 05:32:51
Quote from: ripster;125989
Maybe in your searches here but in Euroland you can find doubleshot G80s.  Might be time to learn German.


There are no NEW G80 with double-shot keys to be found, according to my searches.
You might get some from ebay.de.

Quote from: ironcoder;127549
We have some German members on the forum. Maybe we can start an international buying service and some group buys. A little help?!


Since I'm fairly new here, you'd probably be more comfortable buying from sixty or lowpoly. Anyway, I'd be glad to help if I can.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 22 October 2009, 05:40:01
Thanks, I think it will be good if members help each other out.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 22 October 2009, 06:48:40
Looks like currently the only EU layout G80-3000s you can obtain are light grey ones with blacks (i.e. the ones you can ALWAYS get), but no go with blues or clears, and no estimates on these either. Must be a production-related problem indeed.

And yes, no new two-shot molded keys AFAIK, which is a shame really.
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 22 October 2009, 07:11:05
It's not a shame it's a catastrophe!
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 07:15:14
Quote from: ironcoder;127559
It's not a shame it's a catastrophe!

Either keyboards need to be light colored again, or there needs to be double-shot keys.

White on black lasering is not acceptable!
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 22 October 2009, 07:33:26
Agreed!
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: JBert on Thu, 22 October 2009, 11:44:34
Quote from: keyb_gr;127558
And yes, no new two-shot molded keys AFAIK, which is a shame really.
Wouldn't they do it if you can get up to their minimum amount of keyboards?
Title: I have some bad news (In looking for Cherry keyboards)
Post by: timw4mail on Thu, 22 October 2009, 12:09:20
Quote from: JBert;127612
Wouldn't they do it if you can get up to their minimum amount of keyboards?

Yeah, try getting enough people to agree on a layout, switch type, etc.

Unfortunately, the fact is that most people don't really care enough to bother paying the extra money it costs to have double-shot keys, as opposed to the hideous white on black lasering.