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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ika on Tue, 01 September 2015, 00:43:03

Title: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: ika on Tue, 01 September 2015, 00:43:03
I recently received a sample of MX Whites and I love how the "soft click" feels. I've had a hell of a time looking for real info on these switches and as far as I can gather, the closest anyone has gotten was that the slider arms are lubed. Has anyone tried to mod MX blues or MX greens to get the same "soft click" sound of the Whites, and how did it go? What points do you lube to deaden the sound, and what method do you use for lubing 60+ switches consistently to have the same sound?
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: nmur on Tue, 01 September 2015, 01:04:50
I don't have an MX White on me right now, but I'm pretty sure I remember that the bump on the stem is not as pronounced than the one on the Blues/Greens, so I'm not sure you could really achieve that mod by just lubing a Blue stem.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 01 September 2015, 01:09:01
While I have not tried it personally, but a few members here have tried lubing blues or greens.  The consensus is that it all but entirely kills the click.  CPTBadAss sent around a switch tester that had a bunch of modded and stock cherry switches.  One was a lubed blue just for this purpose.  It didn't click at all.  The lube interferes with the movement of the white portion of the slider to much to get any click.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Jokrik on Tue, 01 September 2015, 01:22:12
Talking about click, I can say that I have experienced most of them including lubed blues and MX whites
I ordered the lubed blues from GON, I can't remember which articles relate to lubing blues without killing the click but I can assure you that it is smoother than stock blues while maintaining the click (though the click is softer than the stock)

While MX whites, the click is even more soft compare to my lubed blues (assuming that you get the switch with constant click)
There are lots of MX whites which don't have the constant soft click, this is why manufacturers often avoid this switch
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Snagg57 on Tue, 01 September 2015, 08:32:37
Quote from: jokrik on Tue, 01 September 2015, 01:22:12
There are lots of MX whites which don't have the constant soft click, this is why manufacturers often avoid this switch

Bingo, this is the main reason why MX Whites are not really seen in the retail environment. Also the weighting of MX Whites is a bit higher than what the general market wants.

I have a KBP V60 w/ Whites and about half of the keys don't click, or click very very softly. As a rebuttal to my anecdote, people have had successful custom boards with MX Whites, and have not experienced any of the issues I have seen with mine.

I think they are a great replacement to MX Greens if for whatever reason they are not available to obtain. They have roughly the same weighting and they feel close enough that you would enjoy either of them.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: saturnotaku on Tue, 01 September 2015, 10:01:31
I had one of those KBP V60s with whites myself. I didn't think the inconsistency of the clicking and feel of the switches would bother me that much, but it really did. I still probably would have kept it had it not been for the fact that one of the LEDs was bad.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Defect on Tue, 01 September 2015, 14:16:41
After taking apart a blue and a white, drying them both off and reassembling with MX Black Springs,

I see no difference.  As for the click consistency of whites...a lot of new MX blues are pretty inconsistent.  Just have to open it, dry it up, possibly move the leaf, and you're good to go.

MX switches (stock) come with a tiny amount of lube on the legs.  My guess is someone's been getting lazy with the applicator and putting too much on.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: deci on Tue, 01 September 2015, 16:04:12
Why go through all that hassle though?

I would rather just save time and order some actual cherry mx whites...

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&m=11
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: ika on Tue, 01 September 2015, 16:36:32
Quote from: deci on Tue, 01 September 2015, 16:04:12
Why go through all that hassle though?

I would rather just save time and order some actual cherry mx whites...

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&m=11

Well... they're expensive :x A set of Gateron blues are $30, and I would like to swap the springs anyway to something closer to Ergo Clears. If I'm opening up switches already, it's less of a hassle to DIY lube if there is a method to make them closer to Whites.

I'm still unsure of where on the slider to lube to soften the click. Do you do it on the plunger part (where it meets the slider) or the jumping slider part (on the arms)?
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 01 September 2015, 16:56:37
I've got some whites. I can take a picture of the stem/innards with a terrible phone camera if people want to compare with pictures of other switches, 2 secs.

OK. Potato pics incoming.

So as those who know me will know, I hate linear switches. MX Whites are a really linear switch. This is a side shot of the slider showing how un-defined the bump is.

(http://i.imgur.com/ORP4qO0.jpg)

As you can kind of see, the bump on the black part of the slider is really small.

(http://i.imgur.com/lKCJNjE.jpg)

And if you change the angle just a little, you almost can't see it at all. You can however see that the legs are slightly lubed. These are stock switches from mk.com and haven't been modded by me in any way.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: ika on Tue, 01 September 2015, 17:38:51
Can you tell if there's any lube on the plunger (white) part? I can see the lube on the sliders pretty easily but I don't have a magnifying glass or MX blues/greens to compare to.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 01 September 2015, 17:46:45
Quote from: ika on Tue, 01 September 2015, 17:38:51
Can you tell if there's any lube on the plunger (white) part? I can see the lube on the sliders pretty easily but I don't have a magnifying glass or MX blues/greens to compare to.

Doesn't look like there is.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Phirr on Tue, 01 September 2015, 17:50:35
Are your whites relatively consistent? Supposedly mk's switches (and other sold-separately switches, from other vendors) are more consistent than boards that come with them soldered in.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 02 September 2015, 02:02:57
Quote from: katushkin on Tue, 01 September 2015, 16:56:37
I've got some whites. I can take a picture of the stem/innards with a terrible phone camera if people want to compare with pictures of other switches, 2 secs.

OK. Potato pics incoming.

So as those who know me will know, I hate linear switches. MX Whites are a really linear switch. This is a side shot of the slider showing how un-defined the bump is.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ORP4qO0.jpg)


As you can kind of see, the bump on the black part of the slider is really small.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/lKCJNjE.jpg)


And if you change the angle just a little, you almost can't see it at all. You can however see that the legs are slightly lubed. These are stock switches from mk.com and haven't been modded by me in any way.

The tactile bumps are identical to Blues and Greens, so by this measure, you'd consider all MX clicky switches to be "linear"... You can see that they're very similar to Browns, too, although the overall angle differs, the height and profile is very very similar.

(http://wiki.geekhack.org/images/d/d2/Cherry_MX_Sliders_Side_Profile.jpg)

The lower volume of the click helps hide this "aural factor" which so many find make the clicky switches seem more tactile than they really are, which is why you may have noticed the small bump.

I like "proper" tactility, so it's Clears (or purple Zealios) all the way for me. I also happen to hate the high-pitched, toy-like "tick" sound from the clicky switches.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: umeboshi on Wed, 02 September 2015, 02:13:28
I had some whites from MK that I installed in one of my boards, and I'd say about 10%-20% had inconsistent, softer clicks.  I did try lubing (teflon silicone) some blues and as others have noticed, ended up being non clicky...
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 02 September 2015, 02:22:29
I agree with WhiteFireDragon's theory that the black part on White stems is a different material to the white part on the Blue and Green stems and is the primary reason for the difference in click sound.

From everything I've seen, the design and dimensions of all the clicky stem parts are identical. And Cherry has officially denied using a different lube / different amount of lube on the White stems. So if it's not the shape and it's not the lube.... QED.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: zenless on Wed, 02 September 2015, 10:31:58
Anyone know of a good source for pcb mount whites?
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 11:42:44
Is there a place I can purchase a keyboard with whites already on them?
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: zenless on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:27:40
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 11:42:44
Is there a place I can purchase a keyboard with whites already on them?

mechanicalkeyboards.com has a v60 with whites on pre-order

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=895
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:32:23
Quote from: zenless on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:27:40
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 11:42:44
Is there a place I can purchase a keyboard with whites already on them?

mechanicalkeyboards.com has a v60 with whites on pre-order

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=895
Thanks for the heads up
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:44:10
Quote from: zenless on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:27:40
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 11:42:44
Is there a place I can purchase a keyboard with whites already on them?

mechanicalkeyboards.com has a v60 with whites on pre-order

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=895
The only I don't have is a gray switch. Are there any of those pre-made I can buy? I guess I can't search that site we enough =)
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Defect on Wed, 02 September 2015, 13:12:42
Quote from: Oobly on Wed, 02 September 2015, 02:22:29

From everything I've seen, the design and dimensions of all the clicky stem parts are identical. And Cherry has officially denied using a different lube / different amount of lube on the White stems. So if it's not the shape and it's not the lube.... QED.

I get that they deny different lube amounts, but I have made blues with "soft click" by lubing the slapping points.  And I cannot do it consistently...sometimes they lose their click entirely.

Makes me think its lube.  I'm too lazy to do it, but you could try prying apart the halves and making a blue/black click switch and a white/white click switch.  I've done it before but never did  thorough comparison.
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: ika on Wed, 02 September 2015, 13:29:28
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:44:10
The only I don't have is a gray switch. Are there any of those pre-made I can buy? I guess I can't search that site we enough =)

There are linear, tactile, and click gray switches. mk.com only carries tactile grays but I'm not aware of anything that comes with a full keyboard full of grays.

Quote from: Defect on Wed, 02 September 2015, 13:12:42
I get that they deny different lube amounts, but I have made blues with "soft click" by lubing the slapping points.  And I cannot do it consistently...sometimes they lose their click entirely.

Makes me think its lube.  I'm too lazy to do it, but you could try prying apart the halves and making a blue/black click switch and a white/white click switch.  I've done it before but never did  thorough comparison.

What's a "slapping point"? Where the jumping slider hits the top and bottom during its movement?
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: Phirr on Wed, 02 September 2015, 15:47:30
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:44:10
Quote from: zenless on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:27:40
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 11:42:44
Is there a place I can purchase a keyboard with whites already on them?

mechanicalkeyboards.com has a v60 with whites on pre-order

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=895
The only I don't have is a gray switch. Are there any of those pre-made I can buy? I guess I can't search that site we enough =)

Greys are profoundly heavy. They're normally just used as the spacebar on clear boards, because it's just a heavier clear, same mold though. I bought some to make into ergo "greys" when it was impossible to buy clears. I don't think I could type with any regularity on a board with actual greys though. If you like greens maybe you'll like greys?
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 19:15:06
Quote from: Phirr on Wed, 02 September 2015, 15:47:30
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:44:10
Quote from: zenless on Wed, 02 September 2015, 12:27:40
Quote from: nstinson on Wed, 02 September 2015, 11:42:44
Is there a place I can purchase a keyboard with whites already on them?

mechanicalkeyboards.com has a v60 with whites on pre-order

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=895
The only I don't have is a gray switch. Are there any of those pre-made I can buy? I guess I can't search that site we enough =)

Greys are profoundly heavy. They're normally just used as the spacebar on clear boards, because it's just a heavier clear, same mold though. I bought some to make into ergo "greys" when it was impossible to buy clears. I don't think I could type with any regularity on a board with actual greys though. If you like greens maybe you'll like greys?
At that point it would be more of a curiosity for collections sake =) I have red, blue, green, black, clear, and brown swktch keyboards, as well as a model m, so I wanted to "round out" so to speak with a white and gray =)
Title: Re: Cherry MX White - still shrouded in mystery?
Post by: deci on Wed, 02 September 2015, 19:24:04
Quote from: ika on Tue, 01 September 2015, 16:36:32
Quote from: deci on Tue, 01 September 2015, 16:04:12
Why go through all that hassle though?

I would rather just save time and order some actual cherry mx whites...

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&m=11

Well... they're expensive :x A set of Gateron blues are $30, and I would like to swap the springs anyway to something closer to Ergo Clears. If I'm opening up switches already, it's less of a hassle to DIY lube if there is a method to make them closer to Whites.

I'm still unsure of where on the slider to lube to soften the click. Do you do it on the plunger part (where it meets the slider) or the jumping slider part (on the arms)?

Gotcha. I personally hate opening and modifying switches but it could be a fun project.

I am curious what some blues with 62g korean springs would feel like.