They are a legacy from the days when you needed to do Ctrl-Alt-Del so often, and it was convenient to do it one-handed.
Right Alt is useful for Emacs' M-x (Alt-x) keystroke, even with dvorak. Also for Alt-F4.
People still use that OS? I thought emacs died in the 70's or so...
I use right Alt and Ctrl all the time. For QWERTY users, the proper way (IMO, of course) to do Ctrl-x, Ctrl-c and Ctrl-v is to use right control key.
Yes, they do. (http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/#Releases)
On a side note, there exists a wiki of all text editors that ever existed, at http://texteditors.org.
(http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/#Releases)
People still use that OS? I thought emacs died in the 70's or so...
Oh, you use it as a text editor???
Oh.
Well then... Okay. Carry on I suppose.
And you see it as an OS???
a bloated pile of unused and unnecessary code
I seem to always use the left Alt and Ctrl.
Is anyone using the right ones?
How else would you type, say, Ctrl-C? The keys are there on both sides of the keyboard so that, like the shift key, they can be used to modify keys on both sides of the keyboard after the fashion of normal touch-typing.
It's true that the Alt key isn't used much, unless one is using an application with keyboard shortcuts.
Honestly though, I see it as a bloated pile of unused and unnecessary code.. Last time I installed it I used it to play tetris for a few minutes, then went back to vi. I see it as the microsoft office of text editors.Show Image(http://www.lysator.liu.se/~ehliar/priv/write_without_interference.jpg)
I seem to always use the left Alt and Ctrl.
Is anyone using the right ones?
...besides Alt Gr, for Europeans... :)
And you see it as an OS???
People still use that OS? I thought emacs died in the 70's or so...
How else would you type, say, Ctrl-C? The keys are there on both sides of the keyboard so that, like the shift key, they can be used to modify keys on both sides of the keyboard after the fashion of normal touch-typing.
It's true that the Alt key isn't used much, unless one is using an application with keyboard shortcuts.
How else would you type, say, Ctrl-C? The keys are there on both sides of the keyboard so that, like the shift key, they can be used to modify keys on both sides of the keyboard after the fashion of normal touch-typing.
True, but how often have you heard people criticize Dvorak because the layout goes against their muscle memory for keyboard shortcuts? There are clearly a vast number of people doing Ctrl-X/C/V using just their left hand. And they consider it to be the right way.
True, but how often have you heard people criticize Dvorak because the layout goes against their muscle memory for keyboard shortcuts? There are clearly a vast number of people doing Ctrl-X/C/V using just their left hand. And they consider it to be the right way.
Blog and comments here. (http://xahlee.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html)
I personally just use my left hand for modifiers including SHIFT just because it involves less pinky stretching.
Blog and comments here. (http://xahlee.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html)
I personally just use my left hand for modifiers including SHIFT just because it involves less pinky stretching.
I suppose the humble hacker keyboard (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6292) layout gets it right. It puts the modifier keys between left and right hand keys, to be actuated by index finger.
I personally just use my left hand for modifiers including SHIFT just because it involves less pinky stretching.
I don't get it, on all the keyboards I have ctrl is always the leftmost key. Did you mean alt?
My objection to winbloze keys is purely MS hatred and the fact that they have no function since I don't use bloze. If I have them they just get in the way, but I think I use every keyboard more or less the same way. I expect ctrl and then alt somewhere east of that.
Alt Gr is useful. Could live without right control though.
Ok, what is Gr?
IIRC, AltGr is used on German layouts as a modifier to type alternate forms of letters used in the language.
IIRC, AltGr is used on German layouts as a modifier to type alternate forms of letters used in the language.
The proper way to do Ctrl-x, Ctrl-c and Ctrl-v is to use right control key.When in Photoshop I use my left hand for Ctrl combinations. Ctrl on
Ok, what is Gr?Gr is for Graphics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altgr
That's a joke, because Emacs is so huge and has so many zillions of features that have nothing to do with editing because it was written in a special dialect of Lisp that lets you customize it without end. They say Emacs is a horrible OS with a good editor, something like that.
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I think you'll find that vanilla US layout is about the only one that doesn't use it.
Xah Lee has been posting on the Emacs mailing lists for years. He is also pushing for Common User Access (CUA) controls (Ctrl-X, C, V) to be default.
I was using caps lock as ctrl until I read his article.
Yes, the pinky has to do all the heavy lifting in pressing the modifier keys, resulting in sore pinky problem. (Emacs is famous for this, and this issue frequently comes up in Emacs vs. Vi flamewars. )
I suppose the humble hacker keyboard (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6292) layout gets it right. It puts the modifier keys between left and right hand keys, to be actuated by index finger.
The right alt and ctrl buttons are EXTREMELY important.
You know how you often get an extra button sewn into a button shirt in case you need to make button repairs? The right alt and ctrl keys are like those. They're the first switch to get pulled when an emergency donor is needed.
The right alt and ctrl buttons are EXTREMELY important.
You know how you often get an extra button sewn into a button shirt in case you need to make button repairs? The right alt and ctrl keys are like those. They're the first switch to get pulled when an emergency donor is needed.
The right alt and ctrl buttons are EXTREMELY important.
You know how you often get an extra button sewn into a button shirt in case you need to make button repairs? The right alt and ctrl keys are like those. They're the first switch to get pulled when an emergency donor is needed.
Xah is also pretty famous for being a usenet troll, so I more or less take anything said by him (and most others) with a grain of salt. Personally I like my ctrl on the homerow. I actually did more than swapping, I just made caps another ctrl. Much like I'm not missing the swap partition, I don't miss the caps lock. I guess the right ctrl sees some underuse for most emacs commands, but I do use it for cut/copy/paste stuff almost daily.
I use the right Ctrl all the time in firefox:
Ctrl+Tab - switch between tabs
Ctrl+W - close tab (this is becoming a standard for all tab related programs)
Ctrl+t - new tab
@Ironcoder: please stop with the "winbloze", its childish.
@Ironcoder: please stop with the "winbloze", its childish.
:) mainframe programmers in a bunker. what are you gonna do XD
i'm a little surprised how many people *are* using the right Ctrl and Alt.
are you left-handed, by any chance? :)
For me, the right Ctrl is a recent development. I got annoyed with the disruptive nature of using the mouse when programming, so I started using a lot more keyboard-shortcuts and HHKB-like scripts to keep my hands on the home row. This in turn let to a more "purist" view of using the keyboard as it's supposed to be used; modifiers with one hand, actual keys with the other. Right now I have to bare the fact that I don't have a real right Alt, so some combinations I'm still forced to do single-handed. It's annoying but I really need that AltGr.
Yes, I am :). I do normally mouse with my right hand so that's not the reason why I use the right Ctrl ;).
Wats up Wat. Haven't seen you in a while.
Nah, not much happening - still no Blue Cherry Filcos so at least be glad you got yours. When the Das S ships we'll probably beat up on it for a while.
Wait until it ships. I'm sure something will be off about it. I have a gut feeling that if anybody can mess up Multimedia keys Metadot can.
Stupid they didn't ship a Tenkeyless version. They coulda claimed, "LOOK - We invented the Tenkeyless Form Factor!!" and gotten just as much press as the Blank key version.
I agree with you with the whole tenkeyless idea. I don't understand why nobody wants to make tenkeyless =/
And I still don't really understand the overwhelming need for tenkeyless...but to each his own.
And I still don't really understand the overwhelming need for tenkeyless...but to each his own.
Hi! Geekhack has been a great resource for me in trying to find a good first mechanical keyboard (settled on a filco with blue cherries, waiting for it to arrive). Being in Europe is not very kind to your wallet though ( $50 shipping =\ )
Is there a Mouse Keys-like program that can be used on keyboards without a real or embedded numpad, i.e., by using other keys or keychords? I've searched around a bit, and these doesn't seem to be such an animal.
I wouldn't live in Europe, then. High shipping seems to be the norm when you include VAT.
Universal Health Care or $50 shipping/VAT. Hmm...... tough decision.
Good thing the coffee and beer has improved here.