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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: polipoli on Tue, 08 September 2015, 10:11:16

Title: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Tue, 08 September 2015, 10:11:16: Okay, so...
I've done a lot of research regarding mech keyboards, now, I've narrowed it to five spesific brands, each seems better in other way. I'm in for blue switches, greens if possible. No. 1 priority is build quality, i want a long lasting keyboard. Preferably not the minimalistic ones, I do want it to look special.
each keyboard got some spesific pros and cons, i've concluded the important ones i think,
And these are:
Ducky Shine 4 - MX Greens, Backlight, Seems to be durable.
Das Ultimate - Blank, Aluminum front, Seems to be durable, Volume knob and USB 3.0 which are BIG pros.
Filco Ninja - Anti Friction, Known for it's durability.
WASD - Customizeable, Backlighted(?), Seems to be durable.
Deck Hassium Pro - Love the font, Strong backlight, Seems to be durable, (Almost) PBT caps.

Cons seem to be:
Ducky shine 4 - I mostly compare it to the Das, so it hasn't the Volume knob and the USB 3.0, The spacebar horse drawing also annoys me.
Das - No backlighting.
Filco - Looks too much like a common keyboard.
WASD - Will need to get around the keycaps featured with it.
Deck - Lack of information, not many own them so i can't get a reliable information regarding those.

So... I need to hear from some people who have experience with these brands to tell me their thoughts. More info about Deck would be nice. Considering that i've done a lot of research, I'm looking mainly for things that i do not yet know, things that only people who have experience notice after a while of using the keyboard. My current priority is probably:
Das/Ducky(Really having hard time choosing who's better) > Filco/WASD. Should i find more info regarding Deck i'll see where it fits. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 09 September 2015, 05:55:19: Welcome to Geekhack!

The only keyboard from your list that I have is various Ducky Shines, but not a Shine 4. My Shines are all older, and haven't missed a beat. One has had heavy usage nearly all day every day and still works 100%.

Most of those are solid boards that you have chosen.

Das - a lot of people don't like the big flash knob, and I think I read somewhere that someone's knob had stopped working after not very long.

Filco used to be one of the top recommended keyboards, solid, reliable. I'm seeing a few more problem reports with Filco keyboards these days, but maybe it is just that some of the older boards are getting older.

WASD make great keyboards, but their keycaps used to leave a little to be desired. Their printing processes have improved, but the keyacps are still very thin ABS.

Deck - the one with the interesting legends? Apparently in Asia Pacific region this was available with a more conventional Helvetica font.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: derb2k2 on Wed, 09 September 2015, 07:29:24: Razer Chroma

(http://i.imgur.com/tKTEbrh.png)
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: bocahgundul on Wed, 09 September 2015, 07:34:37: Quote from: derb2k2 on Wed, 09 September 2015, 07:29:24
Razer Chroma

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tKTEbrh.png)

U WOT M8
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: Jokrik on Wed, 09 September 2015, 07:39:10: Most of what I think has already been written by Rowdy, just as an input
Have you ever consider Leopold? You can easily get them off Ebay from Korea and pretty sure their PBT caps can last very long
The build quality is also there
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 07:51:45: Thank you Rowdy for the detailed response. for Deck - I'm talking about the Hassium pro. another point, i know Cherry MX blues and greens are considered to be different only by the actuation force, but there are 2 things I need to be sure about: first, is the sound of the greens is similar to the blues, is it louder or a bit more supressed? and second, i know the actuation point on the blues is far from the reset point, means you need to let the key go all the way up to reset it. are the greens different? is their actuation point near the reset point? Thanks in advance.

P.S. don't even mention Razer, had several of those and they falled on me like a rain of poor quality. I'll never touch those products in my entire life.

EDIT: I think i'm going for the Das instead... the thing that mostly drawn my attention to the Ducky shine 4 are the green switches, but from what i see in youtube, their sound is less satisfying. are you sure about the volume knob thing? cause it is bad ass....
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: saturnotaku on Wed, 09 September 2015, 08:52:05: Greens and blues sound basically the same, and their actuation/reset curves mirror each other with the former obviously requiring more force.

I have to say, you're about the only person I've seen who likes the standard Deck font. Their parent company, TG3 Electronics, produces keyboards for high-demand applications, including point-of-sale, law enforcement, and medical. One of my first mechanicals was their 82-key Ice model. It was very solid and of high quality; I just didn't care for the Cherry MX black switches it used. I'm also a fan of WASD. Their boards are well built and backed by good customer service. I'd recommend getting one of their barebones keyboards and adding caps yourself as their stock ones aren't the greatest. Filco and Ducky are good, too.

I've never used a Das, but based on reviews of some of their recent products, their quality seems to be on the slide, so I'd avoid them.

You seem to be leaning toward the Deck, though, and that's a perfectly fine choice.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:18:11: Interesting facts about Deck that i didn't know. And yes, the font makes it special and i kinda like it.it'll also color-blend nicely with my Logitech G502 mouse. So you're saying their quality is a safe bet? because if this is the case i'm totally going for it. A bit suprised about Das btw, from what i know they're very experienced, it usually means quality. my main dilema was between the Ducky shine 4 and the Das 4 ultimate. Ducky has backlighting and Das got that volume knob + USB 3.0 ports. I was actually going to get a Das, but i'm getting some negative points about them, so i'll hold it a bit. if Das aren't a safe bet then i won't get one. my first and foremost priority is durability - longtivity. definetly not going to spend that huge amount of money on something that'll fall apart. so.... if Das isn't to be trusted anymore, and Deck is, then it leaves me with Deck vs Ducky and Filco/WASD still in a bit of a "?".
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: LechnerDE on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:22:51: Well DAS used to be a very reliable board until they changed the manufacturer to a chinese OEM.

Until the DAS 3 with media keys they were built by the same company that made Filcos. The newest DAS TKL doesn't even have original Cherry switches anymore.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:29:14: Okay then, one down then. on which of the following boards does the mx blues sound best (aka least supressed)?
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: saturnotaku on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:35:26: Quote from: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:29:14
Okay then, one down then. on which of the following boards does the mx blues sound best (aka least supressed)?

Too subjective a question. Hit up Youtube and watch some typing videos.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 10:14:48: Still can't choose the blues without thinking if the greens aren't that much quieter.... i'm going for Ducky, so it's greens vs blues. on youtube greens seem to be less loud, but the vid also seemed to be low quality, so can someone with experience tell me just how different is the sound between the greens and blues?
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: inanis on Wed, 09 September 2015, 10:21:17: I have a board with Greens (Pok3r) and a board with Blues (Poker II). They are equally loud if you ask me. Though, the greens have a bit of a lower pitch, so that may make it seem quieter. The fact is that no clicky switch is going to be quite, ever. Not even a little. Even comparing two different boards with the same switch can result in a different sound. For example, I also had a Ducky Shine Mini with Blues, and it sounded quieter than the Poker II, probably because the case was significantly more substantial.

That is probably not the clearest answer (or even one at all) but that is my first hand experience.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 10:33:11: Great, thanks a lot. now i'm torn apart again between the blues and greens xD

oh and if you have experience with the greens, can you tell me if they got their reset point near the actuation point? because with the blues you have to let the key go all the way up. i wonder if it's different with the greens.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: inanis on Wed, 09 September 2015, 10:34:53: Quote from: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 10:33:11
Great, thanks a lot. now i'm torn apart again between the blues and greens xD

oh and if you have experience with the greens, can you tell me if they got their reset point near the actuation point? because with the blues you have to let the key go all the way up. i wonder if it's different with the greens.

I don't have either with me here to check first hand at the moment, but Blues and Greens are essentially exactly the same switch. The only difference is the spring weight, with Greens requiring more force.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 10:44:49: The thing that concerns me is the sound.... maybe someone who had Ducky shine 4 with greens can tell me if it sounds supressed comparing to blues or not? because it sounds on Ducky different than other boards... so if someone had both the Ducky shine 4 with the blue and with the green switches, it'd be great.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: MajorMajor on Wed, 09 September 2015, 14:46:17: I've spent considerable time on both the Das Pro 4 with blues and WASD Custom 87 key with clears. Here's my pro/cons for the brand

Das - Better build quality/feel due to the aluminum chassis. Extra features like USB port and dedicated media keys (including volume knob) are a huge plus.

WASD - Cool to customize your keycaps when you order it. Build quality still feels solid, but the exterior is all plastic. Not a fan of the slope of the keyboard (too much). I wrote a pretty long unboxing/review of my WASD mechanical keyboard (http://gomechanicalkeyboard.com/wasd-keyboards-87-key-custom-keyboard-review/) if you'd like to read it.

Overall, I'd say the Das is a better keyboard for the mech newbie not looking for a compact keyboard. The main reason why I went with WASD is because they have switches most other companies don't carry, like my Clears.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: digi on Wed, 09 September 2015, 15:20:49: RF 87u, 45g if you have fingers like TP4, 55g if you have tough & heavy hands like Melvang.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 09 September 2015, 15:21:58: Quote from: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 10:44:49
The thing that concerns me is the sound.... maybe someone who had Ducky shine 4 with greens can tell me if it sounds supressed comparing to blues or not? because it sounds on Ducky different than other boards... so if someone had both the Ducky shine 4 with the blue and with the green switches, it'd be great.

I think you should be basing the choice between Greens and Blues more on the actual differentiating factor, which is the spring. Blues have a very light spring and Greens a very heavy one. So, do you prefer lighter or heavier switches? Base your decision on that rather.

Sound-wise they're very similar. Except that Greens tend to "ping" more, also due to the heavier spring.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: saturnotaku on Wed, 09 September 2015, 15:58:47: Quote from: Oobly on Wed, 09 September 2015, 15:21:58
Except that Greens tend to "ping" more, also due to the heavier spring.

I don't notice ping on green switch keyboards like I did on those with clears, probably because the former's click is strong enough to override any secondary sound.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Wed, 09 September 2015, 22:57:19: As i said, i've done a lot of research and i know i prefer the green for it's weight, but i really like the sound of the blues, i just need to know if the green's sound isn't far away from that of the blues.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 10 September 2015, 01:12:29: Greens are a touch more "damped", but only a little. If you're really going for "uninhibited" Blues sound, then go for a PCB mount, not a plate mount. The plate tends to dampen a little of the sound from MX clicky switches.

Also, if you're going to be using this board in the presence of others, please don't get MX clicky switches. They have a high pitched element to the click that both travels far and is irritatingly piercing for those not using the board. The more mellow sound of buckling springs is much more acceptable. If it's just you on your own in your room with the PC, then go for whatever switch you like best.

Another thing to note about the Greens is they don't have the same spring as Blacks (60cN actuation), which so many people seem to think. They use even stronger springs which are the same as those used in the linear and tactile Grey switches (80cN actuation). This is the strongest commonly available MX spring and puts them close to buckling spring in terms of required pressure to actuate. Blues are 50cN, so if you're going for them just for the sound, be prepared for a BIG difference in feel.

Personally, I don't like the MX clicky sound (sounds cheap to me, too high pitch and plasticky, probably because it is just a tiny piece of plastic hitting more plastic), but I do love tactility, so I use modified Clears (but I'm switching to the new Zealios, which are like MX tactile switches, but without the scratchiness, with better spring weights and tighter casings / less wobble). For me, the ideal spring weight for all MX types is between 60g and 70g measured "Korean" style, to bottom out, somewhere between the standard MX light (Browns, Reds, Blues) and heavy springs (Blacks).
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 10 September 2015, 05:46:46: Lots of responses, yay for time differences :))

To me greens and blues sound the same.

They have the same slider mechanism, just a different colour, and the greens have stiffer springs.

Thus they both have a release point slightly higher than actuation. You don't have to let the keys all the way up to reset, but definitely a little higher than the actuation point.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Thu, 10 September 2015, 06:22:27: So to conclude, what would you recommend me to get, Ducky shine 4 with blues or greens? i will probably like the feel of greens better but i do like the irritating sound of the blues, so if the loudness difference between blues and greens is big, i'll go for blues. if it isn't, i'll go for the greens.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: LechnerDE on Thu, 10 September 2015, 06:35:05: Quote from: polipoli on Thu, 10 September 2015, 06:22:27
So to conclude, what would you recommend me to get, Ducky shine 4 with blues or greens? i will probably like the feel of greens better but i do like the irritating sound of the blues, so if the loudness difference between blues and greens is big, i'll go for blues. if it isn't, i'll go for the greens.

Nobody can make that decision for you!

It's all about personal preference and getting used to things. I have boards with all switch types. At first I didn't like MX blues at all and didnt't understand why many liked them for typing. Now they are my favorite switch. I have multiple MX Blue boards and all feel slightly different, because they have different cases, different caps (OEM vs. thick PBT vs Cherry Profile ABS etc) and are plate/pcb mounted.

I also have a MX Green Board. I liked the stronger resistance at first, but now it's too exhausting for long typing sessions. But that might also be a matter of getting used to it.

What I wanna say is, buy both boards, try them for a longer period of time and if you clearly prefer one, sell the other one at a 10$ loss.

Or do the Geekhack thing and buy all the boards :p
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 10 September 2015, 07:07:18: The is really not much difference in the sound. The board design will have more effect on the sound of the switches than whether they're Blues or Greens. For instance, in this video you can tell the Greens actually sound "clickier" than the Blues:

He spouts a fair bit of misinformation, so don't take all he says as gospel, but you can hear the sound of the different keyboards at the end of the video. The Blues are in a Corsair Vengeance with aluminium plate and the Greens in a Quickfire XT with steel plate. The Ducky should sound more like the Quickfire than the Vengeance with either switch installed, since it uses a similar construction.

One thing I do find irritating with most sound comparison videos is that they often really mash the keys down, so the bottom-out sound drowns out the actual switch sounds...

Personally, I would find Greens tiring to type on for extended periods.

TLDR: If you prefer the feel of the Greens, get the Greens.
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Thu, 10 September 2015, 07:36:37: Well, thank you all for the helpful information, i've ended up getting the one with the blue switches. i do really love the sound. well, those things should hold for pretty long time. maybe after 7 - 8 years or something i'll get the greens... been a tough call :P
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: LechnerDE on Thu, 10 September 2015, 07:39:00: Quote from: polipoli on Thu, 10 September 2015, 07:36:37
Well, thank you all for the helpful information, i've ended up getting the one with the blue switches. i do really love the sound. well, those things should hold for pretty long time. maybe after 7 - 8 years or something i'll get the greens... been a tough call :P

Well then better delete your account and never go on geekhack again, otherwise you will buy that MX green board next week :p

It's called wallethack for a reason :thumb:
Title: Re: Need help choosing a mech
Post by: polipoli on Thu, 10 September 2015, 09:31:07: This was the last piece of the upgrade, after my Logitech g502, Sennheiser G4me one, Harman Kardon Soundsticks III and HOTAS Warthog :P

After my Razer gear shown clear signs of crap quality i'm only getting the top of the line.

i could write reviews when i think about it....