geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: KHAANNN on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:14:05

Title: Lack of stickers
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:14:05: I just completed a keyboard build, skipped stickers this time, as it seemed like they don't contribute much (I 3d-print my stickers, I could have just printed some more or use the ones I already have, why didn't I? ...)

I feel like I built a car and didn't install gaskets

I skipped them as I verified they don't prevent side-wobble, when you put switches on square cutouts, the switch can't wobble sideways, yet I obviously didn't check for vertical wobble, it turns out, they mainly prevent the vertical wobbling(duh, since the switch top has front and bottom sections that lets the stem slide, it mainly provides front/back support, the wobble happens on this axis)

The switch enclosure also sometimes produces a small click sound during this back and forth vertical movement, as the switch top re-seats

I'm sure practically the difference is small, most probably not noticeable as this mini-click/re-alignment doesn't occur when typing, yet the moral of this story is, better safe than sorry, install your stickers

I guess I might re-build at a future point in time, install those plastic gaskets, maybe if the switches gets loose in future
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Sifo on Tue, 22 September 2015, 23:22:59: I rebuilt my boards just to remove the stickers cuz I swear they were causing my switches to feel bad...
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 23:29:42: stickers are useless and in no way worth the silly amount of time it takes to put them on
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: naasfu on Wed, 23 September 2015, 00:08:03: Quote from: hwood34 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 23:29:42
stickers are useless and in no way worth the silly amount of time it takes to put them on

the red ones make you type faster.

but seriously, i just like how they add a bit of color to the board.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Sent on Wed, 23 September 2015, 00:10:43: Quote from: naasfu on Wed, 23 September 2015, 00:08:03
but seriously, i just like how they add a bit of color to the board.

Pretty much this.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: katushkin on Wed, 23 September 2015, 00:55:56: Gotta get me some stickers. Just need some switch tools to make the whole process easier.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 23 September 2015, 02:11:06: Quote from: Sifo on Tue, 22 September 2015, 23:22:59
I rebuilt my boards just to remove the stickers cuz I swear they were causing my switches to feel bad...

This was my concern too, as it felt like they were just stressing the switch assembly for no gain, yet I compared a stickered and non-stickered keyboard side by side, both have 5.2mm plates with cutouts that secure the switches well, the stickered keyboard's switches were pretty much one with the keyboard, while the non-stickered one had very minor horizontal wobble on some switches

These are Gateron clear switch tops, they felt more rigid then Cherry tops, on non-integrated switches I couldn't make the damn things wobble, but they wobbled like a Cherry once on the keyboard

I couldn't differentiate the typing experience, I also found the wobble to be extremely insignificant, at least I tell myself this

One thing is for certain tho, if I ever build a keyboard again, I would add the plastic gaskets, even though the gain might be 0-1%, leaving them out triggered my fomo

(This was my stickers by the way: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72624.0 - since they are thin plastic they blend in well)
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Joey Quinn on Wed, 23 September 2015, 09:03:13: I think you really want a reason to justify using stickers. If you put then in just accept they're useless.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Fire Brand on Wed, 23 September 2015, 09:41:25: Quote from: Joey Quinn on Wed, 23 September 2015, 09:03:13
I think you really want a reason to justify using stickers. If you put then in just accept they're useless.
Blam joey is speaking the truth right here
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 23 September 2015, 09:44:28: I've destickered switches I've bought from others. They're pure hype and just stupid. I've never bothered with them and I won't in the future. Nobody got time for that.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 23 September 2015, 18:07:45: I think stickers are a complete waste of time as well. They seem to never stick well for me and any time I put the switch cover back on the sticker gets scrunched up. The amount of time it takes to open up a switch, replace the spring(maybe lube too), sip sockets, and then clipping the LEDs to fit is incomprehensible until you finally sit down to do it all in my opinion.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: rpeterclark on Wed, 23 September 2015, 19:46:11: Random question, where did stickering switches even come from? Did it start as a thing on Korean forums?
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 23 September 2015, 20:05:20: I was under the impression the whole wobbly switch theory was debunked a long time ago.

I believe they originated on korean forums.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:40:58: Quote from: ghostjuggernaut on Wed, 23 September 2015, 20:05:20
I was under the impression the whole wobbly switch theory was debunked a long time ago.

I believe they originated on korean forums.

Nope. Just like here, people posting random preferences with no real justification.

STICKERS DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. They stabilise the switch tops.. Even in a square hole plate, the tops can still move laterally as well as up / down. Loose tops = more wobbly stems and caps as they allow the rails to move and the whole base to flex, especially noticable on tall profiles like sculptured SA. A tighter switch top reduces the movement and stabilises the sliders more.

Sigh, I guess I really have to make video on this. The time taken to install stickers really is a big hassle and for many the small gain in stability is not worth it, but for my plate mounted Clears with SA caps they make a noticable improvement.

I sticker all my MX switches, but when I get my Zealios in I won't have to :D They have a tighter switch top that doesn't move, so no stickers required. Eveeryone should switch to Zealios, then this whole debate becomes moot :D
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: nmur on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:45:13: Surely the vast majority of the wobbling is from the stem being loose in the housing, and not the two halves of the housing being loose?
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: KHAANNN on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:53:26: Yes the majority is from the stem being loose (90%+, the stem is pretty loose), also for PCB mounts, the flex will obviously be more, yet adding a stressing sticker might make things worse by causing the switch top to pop off more easily

I just compared clear switch tops vs cherry switch tops, indeed the gateron clear tops wobble significantly less

I don't know how a gateron base+top combo will be, but please update us Oobly once you get some results (with Zealio's, since the entire switch is clear, a sticker might be unappealing too)

I have a hunch a sticker could still make a small improvement, maybe not 2-3% like Cherry's, but probably 0.2-0.3%

My main concern is usually the possibility of an additional sound, from the re-seating of the switch top, and not the wobble itself

Overall, I guess I won't regret not adding stickers too much, but still, if I could do it all over again, I would add them, not worth a re-soldering tho
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: nmur on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:58:34: Quote from: KHAANNN on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:53:26
I don't know how a gateron base+top combo will be, but please update us Oobly once you get some results (with Zealio's, since the entire switch is clear, a sticker might be unappealing too)

Zealios/rgb housings are apparently different:

Quote from: Zeal on Sat, 29 August 2015, 13:50:02
Quote from: tuantruong on Sat, 29 August 2015, 13:38:59
Just ordered 200 sexy purple swes, this will be on my Jane and Orion v2 for sure. :thumb:
Just a question, sorry if it has been asked. I read somewhere that the gateron switches are close enough so we don't need the stickers, what about the Zealio swithes? Do I need the stickers for the Zealio?

RGB switch tops fit even more snug than the standard Gateron tops. :) So no, no stickers required.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: jerue on Thu, 24 September 2015, 09:24:27: Quote from: Oobly on Thu, 24 September 2015, 04:40:58
Eveeryone should switch to Zealios, then this whole debate becomes moot :D

After everyone switches to Zealios, I just wanna buy a bunch of stickers and put 'em all over my face. They'd be more useful there.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Data on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:43:13: Stickers are dumb. If backlighting is "rice" then stickers are this:

(http://i.imgur.com/lgdkiuC.jpg)
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Joey Quinn on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:46:55: Quote from: Data on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:43:13
Stickers are dumb. If backlighting is "rice" then stickers are this:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/lgdkiuC.jpg)

Lies, everything bosozoku makes the car faster.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: Steezus on Thu, 24 September 2015, 16:17:15: Quote from: Joey Quinn on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:46:55
Quote from: Data on Thu, 24 September 2015, 14:43:13
Stickers are dumb. If backlighting is "rice" then stickers are this:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/lgdkiuC.jpg)

Lies, everything bosozoku makes the car faster.

Too bad there isn't a Monster Energy Drink sticker on the back windshield, that would add like +7 WHP.
Title: Re: Lack of stickers
Post by: SamirD on Thu, 24 September 2015, 17:03:48: There's something to be said about a car that looks like it's straight out of an anime.

I'm just waiting for someone to make the car/van/thing inspector gadget would drive. That and Riff Raff's car/boat/house from the Heathcliff cartoon...