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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: ideus on Sun, 04 October 2015, 08:45:15

Title: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: ideus on Sun, 04 October 2015, 08:45:15
Disclaimer: I know there are hundreds of threads on key caps; but, that is our trade so here is another one.

How your experience have been typing on SA, the contoured breed, Cherry or GMK made double shots, or PBT thick vintage Cherry, and OEM thick caps. I think the last one come in PBT mainly, like the recently released Poker's stock caps.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: Oobly on Sun, 04 October 2015, 13:36:12
I love typing on contoured SA. It's my favourite profile. It doesn't have steps between the keys, so you don't have to raise your fingers when switching rows, the curves feel natural and the spherical tops "suck" your fingers into the centres of the caps. I find contoured SA the least fatiguing of all contoured profiles and my typing really flows best on them. One caveat, however, is that you should be using plate mounted, stickered switches to truly appreciate them as this prevents the innate wobbliness of MX switch stems to be exaggerated too much by the height of the caps. Also, the best experience is on a flattish angled board, a really steep positive angled board can feel a bit weird, due to the lack of negative angle on the keytops.

Second favourite is Cherry profile, preferably with thick, heavy caps like GMK, BSP or Gateron. Material doesn't matter to me as much as the profile, quality and weight of the caps (although POM is still my favourite). This works well on more positive angled boards, but the steps require raising the fingers more when switching rows and this creates a little more fatigue for me when typing.

I have only tried Poker II PBT thick OEM caps and I think they're acceptable. Almost as good as Cherry profile, but they feel a little less "natural" to type on, somehow. Hard to describe it, but my typing just doesn't flow quite as well on them as it does on Cherry, and it's not about lack of familiarity, since I've used OEM boards a lot before discovering Cherry and SA. It could just be that they have a bit more of a step between the bottom rows and the bottom row angle is steeper than Cherry.

Thin OEM caps are just not worth using, IMHO. They don't have enough heft to feel like "quality" and they don't dampen higher frequency sounds, so they sound terrible on bottom out and release.

This also applies to thin Cherry profile caps for me. I have some thin lasered PBT Cherry caps and I don't like them as much as the Poker II thick OEM caps.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 05 October 2015, 13:37:29
Hate to be boring but pretty much agree with you on all of it - the one thing I don't like about SA is having to wipe down the deep dish keys every once in a while as they seek to collect oils pretty bad
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: jerue on Tue, 06 October 2015, 12:56:31
Contoured SA is nice on the right board. Modern Selectric on my MX Greens feels pretty good and sounds authentic but is wobbly (like a real typewriter!). I got the chance to try Penumbra on a Novatouch and it was quite amazing, very sturdy with excellent feels. I almost want to sell the QFS and get a 45g 87u with MX sliders now.

Cherry profile is awesome, and one I would only use on a custom. It feels wonderful...and premium.

I don't like thick OEM caps like Voretx's on the Poker, anymore. I have been spoiled.

Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: ideus on Tue, 06 October 2015, 16:38:12
Opinions are, of course, divided; however, I can see Cherry to be a better fit for more people, than SA. It means, less people appreciate the benefits of SA.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: DanielT on Wed, 07 October 2015, 04:19:22
I don't see any benefits in SA, the caps are way too high and give me a wobbly feeling. After testing different profiles I can say that Cherry profile are perfect for me. I prefer ABS just because I don't like beige/light grey/white caps, and with PBT that's pretty much the way to go with some small exceptions. I think the only brighter set that I really love is HyperFuse GMK.
So for me is Cherry  :thumb:
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: ideus on Wed, 07 October 2015, 07:13:26
Quote from: DanielT on Wed, 07 October 2015, 04:19:22
I don't see any benefits in SA, the caps are way too high and give me a wobbly feeling. After testing different profiles I can say that Cherry profile are perfect for me. I prefer ABS just because I don't like beige/light grey/white caps, and with PBT that's pretty much the way to go with some small exceptions. I think the only brighter set that I really love is HyperFuse GMK.
So for me is Cherry  :thumb:

What color do you use then?, it sounds like Dolch or WoB are the only ones that may fit you.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: raymogi on Wed, 07 October 2015, 07:17:41
I tried SA for a couple minutes before and removed it almost immediately. I don't like it cause it feels wobbly as others here have said.

When I move on to GMK though, there's no looking back. It just feels so sturdy and for me, has a nice audible feedback compared to SA, or even DSA.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: DanielT on Wed, 07 October 2015, 08:16:19
Quote from: ideus on Wed, 07 October 2015, 07:13:26
What color do you use then?, it sounds like Dolch or WoB are the only ones that may fit you.
Dolch,WoB, Skidata/Charred Orange and with colour accents (GMK Esc , CYMW mods, RGB, Purple). The next set I can't wait to see is Miami Nights dark caps with coloured legends, just perfect for me.
Here are some examples :
SPRiT 60% PCB with Charred Orange combined with OG Skidata (I don't have the PCB anymore but I want to recreate this board because I really loved it, have to get a new PCB)
(http://i.imgur.com/2rcDqmh.jpg)
NerD60 Dolch GMK
(http://i.imgur.com/jnFpHau.jpg)
[CTRL]A:T 60% (it's also a NerD60 ) with OG Chery WoB and JTK Purple mods:
(http://i.imgur.com/eNzdcsk.jpg)
And the only keyboard with something else than Cherry Profile , NerD60 with Galaxy Class PBT DSA , this is the original set from the first GB and I love it for all the other reasons but cap profile  :p
(http://i.imgur.com/3LDWzXi.jpg)
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: ideus on Wed, 07 October 2015, 10:22:10
Quote from: DanielT on Wed, 07 October 2015, 08:16:19
Quote from: ideus on Wed, 07 October 2015, 07:13:26
What color do you use then?, it sounds like Dolch or WoB are the only ones that may fit you.
Dolch,WoB, Skidata/Charred Orange and with colour accents (GMK Esc , CYMW mods, RGB, Purple). The next set I can't wait to see is Miami Nights dark caps with coloured legends, just perfect for me.
Here are some examples :
SPRiT 60% PCB with Charred Orange combined with OG Skidata (I don't have the PCB anymore but I want to recreate this board because I really loved it, have to get a new PCB)
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/2rcDqmh.jpg)

NerD60 Dolch GMK
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/jnFpHau.jpg)

[CTRL]A:T 60% (it's also a NerD60 ) with OG Chery WoB and JTK Purple mods:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/eNzdcsk.jpg)

And the only keyboard with something else than Cherry Profile , NerD60 with Galaxy Class PBT DSA , this is the original set from the first GB and I love it for all the other reasons but cap profile  :p
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3LDWzXi.jpg)


It is a nice sample. Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: davkol on Fri, 09 October 2015, 16:38:46
There are several attributes, that I prefer to discuss separately:
In other words, I prefer Cherry POM in most positions, thanks to its texture, durability and a somewhat aggressive row contour, but I wish it was spherical. Or I wish there were contoured SA *POM* keycaps for some use cases.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 11 January 2016, 13:02:29
Quote from: swimmingbird on Mon, 05 October 2015, 13:37:29
Hate to be boring but pretty much agree with you on all of it - the one thing I don't like about SA is having to wipe down the deep dish keys every once in a while as they seek to collect oils pretty bad

How do you clean out the oils on your caps? Do you remove them all and clean them or take some sort of moist cloth to it?

And yeah, I bumped this up. =D
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: mobbo on Mon, 11 January 2016, 13:07:38
I want so bad for SA to be my favourite! I really do. I'm in love with the aesthetic and I think some of the most visually appealing colorways are in SA profile.

But god be damned if Cherry profile (GMK Hyperfuse) isn't what I catch myself using the most.

It may be my biggest internal keyboard conflict.

Even bigger than MX vs. Topre.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: zslane on Mon, 11 January 2016, 16:14:25
I know how you feel, mobbo.

However, I am so deeply in love with the Space Cadet keycap set (and colorway) that I am willing to force myself to love SA just to make it my main set. Luckily for me though, I like SA anyway, so there is no internal conflict.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 11 January 2016, 17:57:32
I also tried SA, and don't care for it.  But so many nice colorways have come out in SA; it makes me sad.  I just can't stand to type on it and the height looks rather comical on smaller boards without bezels (most 60's, all 40's).

A few years ago DSA was the bees' knees, especially among newer users, and now not so much.  I'm hoping the same will happen to SA.

Cherry profile for me.  As long as it's reasonably thick, I don't care that much whether it's ABS or PBT.  POM get too oily for me, but I don't think I've heard that from too many other people so maybe it's just me.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Mon, 11 January 2016, 18:29:53
From my experience and my POV, SA is made for topre. On Cherry they wobble to much for my taste. On Gateron switches the wobble is even stronger. On my Novatouch there is almost no wobble. Dont know if someone experienced something different but thats the case with my Nova.

From feel i prefer them other any profile with cylindrical top. Got also cherry caps recently but still SA is the passion for me. Had to type on stock OEM profile from Novatouch, after switching from my filco with filco sa caps, it was horrible. Then my Carbon came on my silenced and lubed Nova and goddamn it feels like piano. I love it!

However isn't it a very subjectuve thing? To each his own, but these are my two cents.  :)
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 11 January 2016, 18:31:47
Quote from: T0mb3ry on Mon, 11 January 2016, 18:29:53
From my experience and my POV, SA is made for topre. On Cherry they wobble to much for my taste. On Gateron switches the wobble is even stronger. On my Novatouch there is almost no wobble. Dont know if someone experienced something different but thats the case with my Nova.

From feel i prefer them other any profile with cylindrical top. Got also cherry caps recently but still SA is the passion for me. Had to type on stock OEM profile from Novatouch, after switching from my filco with filco sa caps, it was horrible. Then my Carbon came on my silenced and lubed Nova and goddamn it feels like piano. I love it!

However isn't it a very subjectuve thing? To each his own, but these are my two cents.  :)

This is very interesting, I always think that SA is too tall for wobbling stems like on Cherry switches, but you have a point that on Topre sliders they may feel good.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: T0mb3ry on Mon, 11 January 2016, 18:39:00
Quote from: ideus on Mon, 11 January 2016, 18:31:47
Quote from: T0mb3ry on Mon, 11 January 2016, 18:29:53
From my experience and my POV, SA is made for topre. On Cherry they wobble to much for my taste. On Gateron switches the wobble is even stronger. On my Novatouch there is almost no wobble. Dont know if someone experienced something different but thats the case with my Nova.

From feel i prefer them other any profile with cylindrical top. Got also cherry caps recently but still SA is the passion for me. Had to type on stock OEM profile from Novatouch, after switching from my filco with filco sa caps, it was horrible. Then my Carbon came on my silenced and lubed Nova and goddamn it feels like piano. I love it!

However isn't it a very subjectuve thing? To each his own, but these are my two cents.  :)

This is very interesting, I always think that SA is too tall for wobbling stems like on Cherry switches, but you have a point that on Topre sliders they may feel good.

Just saying give it a try on topre. Its day and night. They woble somewhere at +/-1mm like very low profile on cherry switches. However i did not tried them on other topre boards and i dont know how tight are their stems.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: zslane on Mon, 11 January 2016, 19:32:17
Quote from: heedpantsnow on Mon, 11 January 2016, 17:57:32
...the height looks rather comical on smaller boards without bezels (most 60's, all 40's).

Indeed, one does not put grown-up keycaps on toy keyboards...  :p
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: ideus on Mon, 11 January 2016, 20:17:29
Quote from: zslane on Mon, 11 January 2016, 19:32:17
Quote from: heedpantsnow on Mon, 11 January 2016, 17:57:32
...the height looks rather comical on smaller boards without bezels (most 60's, all 40's).

Indeed, one does not put grown-up keycaps on toy keyboards...  :p

Very expensive toys, indeed.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: keshley on Tue, 12 January 2016, 06:02:20
Disclaimer: The following is primarily based on Topre switch usage.

Profiles:

SA and Topre HiPro are my two favorite profiles, as they make the most sense to me. I find both a joy to type on.
Cherry is nicer than OEM.

Keycap feel:

SA is really nice, like little caresses for my fingertips (for reference, the concave top coupled with the ridges on the edge of HiPro caps is even better).
Cherry POM is wonderful, and the scoops are delightful as well.

Typing Experience:

Cherry POM, but due to POM not profile. Then SA (HiPro slightly edges it out). Then Cherry ABS. Then everything else.

Thoughts:

If SA (or HiPro) came in POM, I'd likely rank it higher than Cherry POM for typing experience. Ah, to dream~
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: skuko on Wed, 13 January 2016, 02:41:38
i primarily game with my boards and found that without a wristrest (which i don't like to use in general, the SA profile for my WASD hand (left) is downright painful to use. DSA is not good for me because of the small area of the top of the keys, so i use cherry/OEM profile keys.

lately i've been using my custom sets from WASDkeyboards.
Title: Re: How do you compare contour SA, Cherry/GMK and OEM thick caps.
Post by: ideus on Wed, 13 January 2016, 12:47:54
Quote from: skuko on Wed, 13 January 2016, 02:41:38
i primarily game with my boards and found that without a wristrest (which i don't like to use in general, the SA profile for my WASD hand (left) is downright painful to use. DSA is not good for me because of the small area of the top of the keys, so i use cherry/OEM profile keys.

lately i've been using my custom sets from WASDkeyboards.

I had the same experience with DSA the tops are just too small to work with, of course, I suppose with time everyone can get accustomed to them.