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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: kencheeto on Thu, 29 October 2009, 21:42:32

Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Thu, 29 October 2009, 21:42:32: Hi guys, I purchased a Filco Tenkeyless Cherry Blue keyboard about when they were available at elitekeyboards, and I was curious if there was an easy way to switch the layout from QWERTY to DVORAK?

I searched but couldn't find anything about this specifically. I don't really mind spending a little money, but am mostly curious if someone has already done this or knows comfortably how.

Thanks!
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: justin on Thu, 29 October 2009, 21:49:02: If it has the keylabels, just remove the keys and rearrange them. If it's blank there's nothing to do. Either way, you just switch the layout in your operating system's preferences and you're good to go. It's pretty simple.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: Xuan on Thu, 29 October 2009, 23:39:10: Quote from: justin;129312
If it has the keylabels, just remove the keys and rearrange them. If it's blank there's nothing to do. Either way, you just switch the layout in your operating system's preferences and you're good to go. It's pretty simple.

Do Filcos have all keys shaped the same way like BS boards?
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: timw4mail on Fri, 30 October 2009, 07:24:56: Quote from: Xuan;129316
Do Filcos have all keys shaped the same way like BS boards?

No, they don't. They're sculpted.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 30 October 2009, 07:58:15: Go blank/"Otaku." That will solve all your problems. I am a much better typist today for it.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Fri, 30 October 2009, 13:17:05: Ok, so I could get the replacement Otaku keycaps and change out just the letters.. Or I could just ignore the lettering. That wouldn't be as cool..
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 30 October 2009, 14:02:26: Personally, from my experience, it would be easier to learn another layout on a keyboard that feels much different than a normal one with the QWERTY layout. That way, it would be easier to learn something completely new rather than learn how to do that and use the QWERTY ones.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Fri, 30 October 2009, 15:44:25: UGH I hate you guys. Now I'll just have to spring for another keyboard :D

Hmm.. Looks like I've got some reading to do into Topre switches.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: hyperlinked on Sat, 31 October 2009, 03:00:08: Quote from: kencheeto;129441
UGH I hate you guys. Now I'll just have to spring for another keyboard :D

Hmm.. Looks like I've got some reading to do into Topre switches.

Wow. It didn't take much to get you to squeal. A couple of lukewarm answers about keycaps and you're gunning for a Topre board. Delete this site from your bookmarks before it's too late!
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: d2v on Sat, 31 October 2009, 06:41:19: As Oscar Wilde said :

Quote
The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it... I can resist everything but temptation.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Sat, 31 October 2009, 19:03:51: Yeah, it only took about a week of lurking around on the boards to convince me to grab the filco blue cherry tenkeyless. Easily the best computer-related upgrade I've done in a while, so I feel its justified.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Sun, 01 November 2009, 18:30:52: Quote from: timw4mail;129343
No, they don't. They're sculpted.

Wait..

I just ordered the keycap puller from elitekeyboards. I was planning on rearranging the qwerty layout to dvorak- leaving all the non-letter keys in their spots. The letters will be interchangeable, right?
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: timw4mail on Sun, 01 November 2009, 19:08:46: Quote from: kencheeto;129817
Wait..

I just ordered the keycap puller from elitekeyboards. I was planning on rearranging the qwerty layout to dvorak- leaving all the non-letter keys in their spots. The letters will be interchangeable, right?

Only if you want one weirdly bumpy typing experience.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: rdh on Sun, 01 November 2009, 19:11:42: Quote from: kencheeto;129817
I just ordered the keycap puller from elitekeyboards. I was planning on rearranging the qwerty layout to dvorak- leaving all the non-letter keys in their spots. The letters will be interchangeable, right?

Sorry, no. The Filco boards (like most keyboards) use differently-shaped keycaps in each row.

This picture shows a set of blank Filco key caps in their normal order on a flat surface. The picture doesn't highlight it well, but if you look closely you can see the shape differences:
(http://www.elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/FKB10487_closeup.jpg)

Look especially at the number key row vs. the Z-row, if you're having trouble seeing it.

You can swap the keys around within the rows without problems, but if you swap between different rows, the tops of the keys will be at different heights and angles.
Try swapping a few keys from different rows to see what you think. The mismatched feel would annoy me a lot, but you may not mind as much.

Even if you don't end up swapping your caps, the puller will still be useful for situations like when you want to clean the key caps.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Sun, 01 November 2009, 19:16:08: I see. Thanks for the info- I think I'll spring for the blank key replacement set and keep a layout printed until I'm comfortable with dvorak. Also, should I choose to switch between qwerty and dvorak I'll be able to easily.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Sun, 08 November 2009, 18:35:29: Well, I've switched to dvorak and so far I'm loving it. Not quite at my previous 120-130 wpm but picking it up faster than expected. Thanks for everyone's input!
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: DreymaR on Mon, 09 November 2009, 08:02:10: One word for you my friend: Colemak. Where it's at. :)
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: AndrewZorn on Mon, 09 November 2009, 10:41:29: colemak
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: DreymaR on Mon, 09 November 2009, 11:12:51: word ;)
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Mon, 09 November 2009, 23:14:15: Alright, I just checked it out.. Read the Colemak forums and haven't read anything super convincing yet. Am I missing some killer feature?
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: Rajagra on Tue, 10 November 2009, 07:19:46: Quote from: kencheeto;131430
Alright, I just checked it out.. Read the Colemak forums and haven't read anything super convincing yet. Am I missing some killer feature?

Yes. Colemak requires less effort, is easier to learn coming from Qwerty, and keeps keys for important shortcuts in the standard places.
http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak

Dvorak on the other hand is sometimes easier to setup, and you can buy hardware-based Dvorak keyboards.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: AndrewZorn on Tue, 10 November 2009, 07:33:24: less effort also meaning higher speed potential, if you are still missing that main point
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Tue, 10 November 2009, 15:21:54: Awesome; I figured it out. I'll keep you posted :)
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: DreymaR on Fri, 13 November 2009, 03:22:47: Quote from: kencheeto;131430
Am I missing some killer feature?

Me? ;p
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Wed, 25 November 2009, 03:26:20: I've had to do a ton of coding the past week, so I haven't been able to make the switch yet- I've got my blank caps and am ready to rock this winter break 8)
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: spremino on Wed, 25 November 2009, 03:57:22: Quote from: kencheeto;136135
I've had to do a ton of coding the past week, so I haven't been able to make the switch yet- I've got my blank caps and am ready to rock this winter break 8)

Wise decision. Learning your first alternative layout will be frustrating, the first week at least, therefore it makes sense doing it when you can take a relaxed pace.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Fri, 27 November 2009, 22:25:55: Quote from: hyperlinked;129507
Wow. It didn't take much to get you to squeal. A couple of lukewarm answers about keycaps and you're gunning for a Topre board. Delete this site from your bookmarks before it's too late!

Good advice, but it usually does not work if the person has already started posting here :-)

Personally, I think most people don't come here just to learn about keyboards in general. In most cases they were just looking for some reviews about a particular keyboard and some just go on to buy the keyboard after they got the reviews they wanted. This was my intention when I was deciding between the Customizer and the Das. But because I have always liked a good keyboard and always like to try a keyboard I have never tried, I continued to visit this forum and ended up with a collection.
Title: i like to watch
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 30 November 2009, 17:11:54: I came here because I'd never met a keyboard aficionado other than me, and stayed because I realized I'm an amateur. That and I like sparring--and watching people spar--with intelligent people who won't hit me or start crying...

:popcorn:
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 30 November 2009, 17:17:15: I don't want to type on a keyboard in that Lego layout!
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 30 November 2009, 23:17:08: Quote from: ripster;137581
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5080&stc=1&d=1255153713)

You cut me Shrek. You cut me deep.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: DreymaR on Tue, 01 December 2009, 03:52:47: Quote from: microsoft windows;137583
I don't want to type on a keyboard in that Lego layout!

If you were, that line would read:

Quote from: LEGOmsWin
I ON AN O YPE ON A KEYBOAR IN HA LEGO LAYOU
:D
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 02 December 2009, 19:11:00: Quote from: ripster;137592
I fart in your general direction.

Claviers Japonais PFffffffttt!
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6007&stc=1&d=1259631237)

You missing a keycap there?
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: kencheeto on Mon, 07 December 2009, 02:15:51: 10 days until I unleash Colemak.

However, I have another question- Are the keycaps on the HHKB Pro 2 formed uniquely like the Filco tenkeyless? Or would I be able to switch the keys around on the hhkb without getting the blank keycaps or getting it factory customized?

Thanks for putting up with me! I'm considering saving for a hhkb pro 2.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: AndrewZorn on Mon, 07 December 2009, 05:01:57: the rows are different shapes. you dont want to rearrange anyway, the nubs are worth more than the lettering.
Title: QWERTY -> DVORAK on Filco?
Post by: chimborazo on Fri, 11 February 2011, 01:47:09: Quote from: DreymaR;131192
One word for you my friend: Colemak. Where it's at. :)

lol if there are any words which would abbreviate in the english language - and justify in the process an unsubstantiated claim such as colemak is where it’s at, and hence is better than dvorak - i cant think of a better one than flatulent conclusion.
i thought the discussion as to which one of the two is better was over with by now or it ought to be, lol but apparently not.
kauffmann and others have turned a blind eye to your theories - posted on the colemak forum - and this in itself should give an everlasting pause to this never ending argument.

but this is not it, there comes rajagra, who months ago was - shall i say - impartial one way or another to the discussion, but now he is a biased colemak user. i do wish colemak the best and i mean it. the problem - if there is one lol - stems from the fact that his color-filled-headache-inducing graph makes me realize that colemak proponents are out there, just like the jehova witnesses, who try to convert non-dvorak and dvorak users alike to their preferred denomination. good luck.

(http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/nki0004l.jpg)