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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 13 October 2015, 15:40:05
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After using my first mechanical keyboard a cm storm trigger with cherry mx reds, I swore I didn't like cherry mx reds. Since that first board I've tried every common mx switch, most varieties of topre, a couple alps boards and buckling springs both M and F varieties. But here I sit typing this on an FC900R with cherry mx reds.
And while I haven't given up on topre yet, just waiting on those JTK sliders to throw some JTK caps on one and put hypersphere's silencing rings on it, I honestly can't imagine settling on one keyboard and typing on it forever. I also can't get away from using full sized keyboards even though I've tried many other sizes.
So my question to you is, Have your keyboard preferences changed over time?
Do you intentionally try new or different keyboards to see if what you've liked has changed over time?
And/Or do you go back and revisit boards you may not have liked in the past to give them a second chance?
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My keyboard preferences have moved more towords heavier switches. I used to think browns/reds were prefect weight. Now i like Blacks adn 55G topre.
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I've gone from liking clicky/crunchy switches to ergo-clear/topre and even linears.
I suppose the clicky/crunchy keys are what got me into the realm of keyboards to begin with. They're quite captivating, and I perhaps wouldn't have discovered the other types had it not been for them.
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My appreciation for certain switches has changed over time as I found either better or worse alternatives. I test new boards regularly for my reviews and during periods I'm supposed to be testing boards that I can't run I take the opportunity to revisit many previous boards to re-weigh my appreciation of them. My overall preferences haven't really changed over time, though.
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As far as weighting, it's stayed about the same. I started with linear, didn't like it, enjoyed MX Blue, tried and was horrified by MX Greens, settled on Topre.
Now I'm going to Korean Klears, and I have learned that there is no true endgame.. the HHKB is a lie..
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always preferred clicky, and probably always will
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Moved more towards more tactile switches and at slightly heavier weights
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I prefer the following three things:
1. Spherical keycaps
2. Full ANSI layout
3. Cherry MX red switches
I could foresee transitioning from MX reds to NovaTouch switches should CM ever decide to properly silence them and put them into a full ANSI board, preferably in both black and (off-)white. But until then, its MX reds for me.
I don't expect I'll ever go back to cylindrical or chiclet keycaps. The mere thought of them makes me ill.
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always preferred clicky, and probably always will
I like you! :)
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I started out wondering what I would like. I ended up typing at length on browns, blues, reds, and blacks along with a buckling spring and white Alps boards I had at home.
I ended up realizing that I like light, linear switches. Though I wouldn't mind getting some o-rings for mine as I'd like a damped feel when I inevitably bottom out at times.
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That's a good question!
In the distant past I had an NEC clicky keyboard with NEC blue oval switches. I loved that keyboard. But in my blissful ignorance I threw it away and endured many years of rubber dome keyboards.
When I found out about "modern" mechanical keyboards I joined GH to discover the closest keyboard to my beloved old NEC, and settled on MX blues. My first two mechanical keyboards had MX blues.
But I started to feel they were a bit light, so my third keyboard had MX blacks.
I think I got MX reds next, to see how they felt. Great to start with, but over time (not much time) I began to feel they were too light. I still do.
Somewhere along the line I acquired another keyboard with MX blues, and then MX greens. I liked MX greens. Stiff like blacks, clicky like my old NEC keyboard.
At one stage I got an HHKB. I am using it now. It is my default go-to keyboard when I swap out one of the others.
During all this I have accumulated five buckling spring keyboards, all Model M. I love those, and I think that Model M is my favourite clicky switched keyboard now, and HHKB is probably my favourite non-clicky switched keyboard.
Do I go back to my old keyboards? Yes! The KeyCool with MX reds is on my gaming PC at the moment, but that's 'cause my daughter was the last one to use it when we were playing Minecraft, although she tolerates my heavier and louder keyboards, she prefers something a bit softer and, above all, quieter.
I use MX clears at work, which was my second most recently acquired switch, and alternate between most of the others at home, with a preference for Topre during the week, and BS at weekends.
I also have another lovely NEC keyboard with one switch missing, and a couple of spare switches to solder in as a replacement. All I need to do is find where I've put the old broken switch, as the old keycap lies with it.
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I think topre is the best, after 1 month using it I want to try the clicky switch cuz topre is not that good
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55g Topre is still the go-to switch for me, but I always try to mix in BS in between. The clickiness is just too good to be true.
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55g Topre is still the go-to switch for me, but I always try to mix in BS in between. The clickiness is just too good to be true.
I'm still yet to try 55g Topre. I like my HHKB but do feel that it could be a bit stiffer, so I have a feeling I'd like 55g Topre.
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55g Topre is still the go-to switch for me, but I always try to mix in BS in between. The clickiness is just too good to be true.
I'm still yet to try 55g Topre. I like my HHKB but do feel that it could be a bit stiffer, so I have a feeling I'd like 55g Topre.
Get to it mate. I switch between my 55g RF and HHKB regularly. I somehow like the feeling of 55g in the HHKB more.
Dunno if that's because the HHKB is silenced and lubed and I have developed a preference for that, or because it's just better in the HHKB in general. I'm going to mod my RF tonight though so we'll see what I have to say after that.
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I just bought a 55g 87u - not sure if I want to move the domes into the HHKB yet though :/
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I've gone from liking clicky/crunchy switches to ergo-clear/topre and even linears.
I suppose the clicky/crunchy keys are what got me into the realm of keyboards to begin with. They're quite captivating, and I perhaps wouldn't have discovered the other types had it not been for them.
Are we the same person? :eek:
I am fond for buckling spring though. Even if my SSK isn't sitting on my desk as of now :(
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Even after some forays into different switches I always came back to MX Clears.
What did change however are my preferences for size. I couldn't use fullsize anymore if I wanted to because it hurts my wrist after a while, whereas I can work all day without any issue on TKL with a numpad right next to the mouse.
I need an ANSI 1800-layout board because I loved the ISO 1800 boards that I've used.
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I honestly can't imagine settling on one keyboard and typing on it forever.
I'm realizing this myself. There isn't a "end game" keyboard - but multiple "end game" keyboards. :)
I also can't get away from using full sized keyboards even though I've tried many other sizes.
Although I recognize that smaller keyboards can be ergonomic at times - I also keep going back to the full size. Even in situations when I don't need the number pad, anything smaller just feels ... off. The first time I tried a Realforce 86u I was like "this is great - but where is the numberpad? I kind of miss it..."
So my question to you is, Have your keyboard preferences changed over time?
Yes. These days I lean towards rubberdomes and scissor switches. Because they are lower profile, make less sound, shorter travel, and OEMs have gotten better with keyrollover techniques. Yes a mechanical keyboard can obtain all these attributes - but it seems silly to spend $100+ to emulate a $10 keyboard.
Sometimes I prefer lighter or stiffer switches - but in general I keep coming back to the domes. My current faves are the Dell KB-522, Siig Premium Aluminum Scissor, and some mystery HP keyboard I tried at Fry's last weekend. I was going to buy it (it was only $10!) but it was out of stock. MX type switches wish they could be this crisp!
I also used to get a huge nerd erection when looking at SA keycaps because of their feel and older Terminal board aesthetic - but in the end (IMO) G20's are the best caps SP currently makes. I just wish they came with legends.
Do you intentionally try new or different keyboards to see if what you've liked has changed over time?
And/Or do you go back and revisit boards you may not have liked in the past to give them a second chance?
I'm going to give Matias Quiet Linears another shot. I only got to try a handful of switches on a V80MTS Engineering Sample - so I'd like to try a whole board full of them. I may actually like the silence/reduced travel this time around! I'd probably keep that as a gaming board.
So yeah ... the Matias Quiet Linear V60MTS/V80MTS/Matias 60% may be my last mechanicals.
I've also given up on a Realforce 104 55g because I like my domes better. :/
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One of the things I wonder about the keyboard hobby is how we there is a tendency for users who started early in life (typically older members) to have a bit of a fetish for the keyboards that they started off with - I see this a lot with the Model M crowd- not just here but in a lot of articles
Then you get the type that makes the progression typically starting with something like cherry browns or reds and will eventually move to modded cherry switches, alps or topre
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So the real question is, who has settled on one endgame for at least five years?
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So the real question is, who has settled on one endgame for at least five years?
That's easy for me.
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So the real question is, who has settled on one endgame for at least five years?
Not sure if I've been in the hobby for long enough to settle. :P
Besides, some previously very rare boards are now becoming mainstream or get updated to modern times by enthusiasts.
Point in case are the Brand New F62 Kishsaver / F77 Industrial Model F (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73363.0), Alps boards such as the The Monarch: Alps 60%+LHTK (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75786.0) and the Alps Party 60% (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=75491.0). There are even new keycap sets being made for those!
A few years ago that would have been impossible.
My Orion (http://imgur.com/a/8lE3M) might be my endgame board for now but I've only had it for a little over a year.
Maybe I'll get bored at some point and replace it with something else. :P
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So the real question is, who has settled on one endgame for at least five years?
Find list of inactive users - them
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So the real question is, who has settled on one endgame for at least five years?
Find list of inactive users - them
Good idea.
In my case, I feel inclined to think that I am typing in THE keyboard I would be using for a long, long time. Sometimes, I even think I will inherited it to my daughter some day.
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So the real question is, who has settled on one endgame for at least five years?
Find list of inactive users - them
:p :p
I guess you're right, but it seems we have quite a few Model M guys with us who don't mind sticking around.
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So my question to you is, Have your keyboard preferences changed over time?
Do you intentionally try new or different keyboards to see if what you've liked has changed over time?
And/Or do you go back and revisit boards you may not have liked in the past to give them a second chance?
I've been on buckling springs since the beginning and that's pretty much where I've stayed since starting with PCs in 1989.
Because of GH and the other communities, I definitely want to try new ones. I missed Keycon and I was really bummed about that as that would have been the ultimate 'test a thon'
I have pulled out some of the rubber domes we have and plan to check out some of the other ones with a more critical hand now just for kicks.
As far as an endgame--I think it's like trying to find a perfect car. You can have your daily driver, your weekend terror, your drag racer, your cruizer, your chick magnet, your track car, your show car, your snow car, your sun car, et al.
And then your hands change. I'm curious how my hands would like Cherry Reds. My brother started with me on M's, but moved to the Microsoft Natural when it was introduced and then to the glass touch-screens on ithings due to his work. There's a lot of factors to the end game.
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My preferences have probably not "changed" per se, but have sharpened and evolved.
For me, the must-have-#1-with-a-bullet is tactility. I need feedback and feel like I am detached from the universe on linear switches.
[On the other hand, my teenage son, the gamer, has a Filco TKL with MX blacks and thin soft O-rings and he loves it.]
And I need a keyboard that has mass and sturdiness, so that if I am in a bad mood I can poke at it as forcefully as I want with no change, movement, damage, or protest from the machine.
As for switch preferences, I loved the Model M until I got a Model F, now I recognize the M for the cheap plastic replacement that it is.
Alps switches are lovely for their high actuation point, and the clicky blue ones are wonderful while the white ones are a bit too heavy.
The orange (and later salmon) Alps are quite nice even without the clicks, and the dampened cream replacements are quite acceptable.
NMB Hi-Tek "Space Invaders" are awesome, with rock-solid stability and smooth action, and I think that I could even learn to be happy with the linear white ones.
Others that I particularly like are the "Acers" and "SMKs" including the white Cherry mounts and the Monterey blues.
Cherry MX have always "underwhelmed" me, but if-and-when I get the urge to have one or more Cherry boards, I am going to hire someone to build (because it is just too fussy and I don't have the experience) "jailhouse" greens and/or ergo-clears.
Last, although I own a few "ten-key-less" keyboards I cannot get comfortable with them, because I use the numpad very often. And even if I didn't, the numpad "Enter" is just about my favorite key!
Even attempting to use anything smaller than the 84-87 size is simply out of the question.
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Started off with a DAS Model S with blues and I thought that was as good as it got. Fast forward a few months and I get a Ducky Shine 3 with Reds, and I loved those too. Decided I wanted to dip into Topre a bit so I bought a Novatouch, only to realize I still preferred my Ducky Shine. Now I have another Ducky Shine 3 with Browns, and it's my favorite keyboard I've used to date, but I wish the tactile bump was more prounounced and the switch was a bit heavier. So, I ordered a Winkeyless B.87 with Clears, and hopefully that's end game (haha yeah right!) for me.
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So my question to you is, Have your keyboard preferences changed over time?
Started off liking heavy clicky (mx green/white), and ended up preferring light/med tactile (ergo clear, orange alps). Going through the different types of switches showed me that I like to bottom out and the tactility helps with the signaling to not bottom out so hard.
Do you intentionally try new or different keyboards to see if what you've liked has changed over time?
Trying new switches/boards is part of the fun! As long as my wallet can handle it... :p
And/Or do you go back and revisit boards you may not have liked in the past to give them a second chance?
Definitely. Some days you just feel the need to switch gears, if only just for a few minutes. Even if it's not a switch that you like, it'll just help you appreciate the ones that you do even more... :))
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I just bought a 55g 87u - not sure if I want to move the domes into the HHKB yet though :/
Just enjoy the 87U first.
When that day comes, you know, when you got some free time and itching to try something new, then you move those domes to the HHKB and enjoy the ultimate little keyboard :D
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I just bought a 55g 87u - not sure if I want to move the domes into the HHKB yet though :/
Just enjoy the 87U first.
When that day comes, you know, when you got some free time and itching to try something new, then you move those domes to the HHKB and enjoy the ultimate little keyboard :D
Good point
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My first modern keyboard was a SteelSeries 6Gv2. It had Cherry MX Black switches, as expected, but they were way too stiff for me back in the day. It was one of the reasons, why I got Noppoo Choc Mini with reds, which I loved for a long time, and I still think it's a nice keyboard… in fact, I'm typing on it right now. However, I've tried stock clears in the meantime, only to fall in love with their "progressive" springs. So I'm back to MX Black (because #vintage smoothness) with MX Clear springs.
So the real question is, who has settled on one endgame for at least five years?
I, for one, have found my final setup. Some details may change, but that's just details. I'm quite content with my ErgoDox configuration—it might get QMX Clips to dampen the upstroke; if I build another one, gaterons may be used in place of vintage MX Black housings/stems, a few keycaps can be upgraded, but that's about it. The overall idea shall prevail. If I get an Axios, it'll get the same kind of switch/key configuration.
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Went from blues to Novatouch and never looked back.
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I loved Cherry MX blues when I first started using them, but the tactile feel would hurt my fingers when winter came around. Then I went to MX browns, and now suddenly I cannot stand blues anymore.
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It seems most common for people to start out with clicky switches (MX Blue type) and move towards the others, such as Topre, ergo-clear, linears...
I suspect people start with clicky switches because they're so different from your standard keyboards, but then tastes refine.
It would be interesting to see it in a poll.
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I first started with several logitech keyboards, wireless. At the time I was not aware of different switch types or key feel. This here is one of my original and one of my favorites ever. It is unrivaled for quietness and smoothness of rubber dome switches.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jxq99k3ot2aau4/Logitech.jpg?dl=0?raw=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jxq99k3ot2aau4/Logitech.jpg?raw=1
I later discovered the Logitech Illuminated K700 I think and used it for many years. On a whim I purchased a mech board with Cherry switches and never looked back. In a pinch I would happily go back to this Logitech though rubber dome though.
(I'm still learning Dropbox. If the image is not visible I think you can click the link.) This will have to do. The link works, but the image is not directly visible in the forum post.
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I had tried out Acer switches, black and white Alps, buckling springs, and even Montereys before I ran into a Cherry blue board. My god, was that a disappointment by then xD .
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a Cherry blue board. My god, was that a disappointment
Blue Cherry switches are the very embodiment of the slang term "rinky-dink".
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MX (black) -> BS -> Topre -> Capacative BS
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My keyboards have gotten smaller over time. I am very happy with 60% boards, and would much rather use one than a TKL.
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I started on clicky alps, and clicky switches remain my favorite to type on.
I have no clicky switch keyboards. Why?
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/06/061400fc4ac4c3854159ccf6bbc8c06fe8a82aaca28316998317dc7ac87e930b.jpg)
Topre feels premium, and it remains my second favorite switch. Tactile is my third (Cherry/Gateron Brown in particular).
Layout, on the other hand, is something I can never seem to settle on. I haven't owned a full-sized board in probably over a decade. But TKL, 60%, 60% JIS, 60% with arrow keys, 60% with... yadda yadda yadda, I haven't settled on a specific layout. Most of my boards have been of the compact variety, but probably 6 or 7 different layouts over the years. I'm sure I'll keep swapping between a couple of them until I find just the right one.
Hopefully I don't get into RTSes as that'll probably upend everything again. But maybe I'll just have a dedicated board for that if I do...
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When I first got into keyboards, I swore I'd never be able to get by on less than 104 keys. I was even enamored with the big 122-key Model Ms and Fs.
I am currently running a GB for 60% keycaps, so...
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I used to hate clicky switches. I was more of a linear guy. Maybe tactile at times. But then I discovered Cherry Greens. Turns out I love heavier clicky switches. MX Green to me are like the modern take on the vintage Buckling Springs. Just a tad lighter, and a lot smoother with no ping. I always thought greens would be too heavy for me, but I find them to be perfect now.
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My tastes have definitely not changed. I started with mx blues of the ducky variety. Loved the feel and sound, even more so with a set of thin SP dcs caps. It has a wonderfully light and crunchy feel to it that I always come back to. My standard rotation: plate mounted mx blues in tkl layout, pcb mounted mx whites in 60% layout, plate mounted 58g mx blues in 40% layout, BS model M, quiet click Matias in 60% layout. I usually leave the model M or the mx whites on my main rig, while the rest travel with me to work. I work alone so the noise is not an issue. I have a black NMB board, and while I love the noise and feel of the switches, I just make too many mis-hits on the keys and they don't seem to be very forgiving of off-center hits.
I have used mx reds, blacks, browns, and short stint with a CM Topre board and just didn't enjoy them. MX reds are my least favorite switch. I actually preferred my old rubber dome Microsoft Sidewinder more than those.