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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: tjcertified on Fri, 16 October 2015, 01:38:47

Title: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: tjcertified on Fri, 16 October 2015, 01:38:47: I am curious about whether or not I would enjoy the SA profile keycaps, but my current main board is a RealForce. I saw the RF Hi-Pro keyboard, but that price is really more than I would want to pay. However, they do look very close to the SA profile caps that I have seen. Is there anyone out there that makes Topre SA profile keycaps, and can you provide a link for purchase? I love the look of the SA sets that I have seen out there for the Cherry switches, and would love to try it on a Topre board. I'm pretty sold on that switch, and believe I will be for a while. Yes, I know I am being picky. :)
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: raymogi on Fri, 16 October 2015, 01:46:44: I believe it only comes with those Realforce boards. Never seen it sold separately before.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: ika on Fri, 16 October 2015, 01:56:16: You can use the soon-to-be-released JTK Topre/MX sliders to use any MX caps you want.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 16 October 2015, 03:11:20: Quote from: ika on Fri, 16 October 2015, 01:56:16
You can use the soon-to-be-released JTK Topre/MX sliders to use any MX caps you want.

Or get a Novatouch, Royal Kludge RC930 or Noppoo EC108-Pro and swap the sliders.

And SA profile caps are indeed very nice on Topre.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 07:36:29: Oooh, another excuse to post this photo!

(http://i.imgur.com/Z7sYawo.jpg)

;D

I'm using Novatouch sliders in my HHKB. If you don't want to spend ridiculous amounts of money though (I have two Novatouch boards now because the GF was jealous of oneness with cup rubber), and you don't have a board already, I'd opt for a Novatouch straight away. Or as Oobly mentioned, can get one of the clones for the sliders if the Novatouch isn't to your liking. I like the Novatouch though. But only with silencing rings on the sliders. No modifications necessary to get the SA keycaps to work when running a Novatouch. Drilling required on a HHKB.

I am, of course, talking about standard MX stemmed SA keycaps.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: tjcertified on Fri, 16 October 2015, 10:42:50: I've seen similar boards, and that is exactly the look I am going for. However, I am a complete noob when it comes to mods. I tried a Novatouch first, but the switches just felt...mushy when compared to the other Topre boards I have tried. I did not enjoy typing on it. It honestly felt (to me) like a typical rubber-dome. I have seen posts with keys on it, though, and it looks great!

Is there a thread to show how to swap out the sliders, and will it affect the "feel" of the keys at all? If so, then I am unwilling to do it. Feel is a lot more important to me than looks, which is why I am returning the Novatouch, and why I got my RealForce. I don't know why the RF feels different, but it just does to me. It feels stiffer and more tactile.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 16 October 2015, 10:45:11: Just FYI, SA profile is exclusive to SP. The caps on the Hi Pro might be similar to SA (http://deskthority.net/review-f45/topre-realforce-104uk-hi-pro-t11553.html#p253338) but they are a profile unique to Topre. I don't believe SP provides the caps to Topre Corp for the Hi-Pro either.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: tjcertified on Fri, 16 October 2015, 10:47:13: Quote from: CPTBadAss on Fri, 16 October 2015, 10:45:11
Just FYI, SA profile is exclusive to SP. The caps on the Hi Pro might be similar to SA (http://deskthority.net/review-f45/topre-realforce-104uk-hi-pro-t11553.html#p253338) but they are a profile unique to Topre. I don't believe SP provides the caps to Topre Corp for the Hi-Pro either.

Good to know. Thanks.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 11:03:41: The sliders feel the same. I didn't really notice anything different with PBT MX keycaps on MX compatible sliders vs the Topre PBT keycaps on the stock sliders. There's a few issues though.

First, Realforce uses a 6x spacebar, so even if you swap out the sliders, there's no SA 6x spacebar mold.
Second, Realforce might require drilling as well: Topre stabilizers are different from MX stabilizers, so you'll only see one stem on, for example, the right shift vs the three found on MX keycaps.

Note the enter and shift areas on my HHKB pre-drilling:
(http://i.imgur.com/VrA2Oxb.jpg)

And now post-drilling with the MX compatible Topre stabilizer:
(http://i.imgur.com/kq8DZRh.jpg)

So... if you're OK with the wrong sized spacebar (which is proof that SP doesn't make the HiPro keycaps) and the compromises associated with it, and want to pick up sliders/stabs, or transplant from another board, you're looking at a pretty hefty price tag. But finding the HiPro keycaps by themselves is extremely difficult, so you'd likely be sourcing a Realforce HiPro, which is an even heftier price tag.

tl;dr It can be done, but expect to pay double what you paid for the board to get your desired look/feel.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: zslane on Fri, 16 October 2015, 17:01:38: If you feel that the NovaTouch switches are too soft, then definitely avoid the NovaTouch knock-offs such as the Noppoo EC108 or the Royal Kludge (which is basically the same thing under a different name). I have the Noppoo and it feel like typing on pillows. There is virtually no tactility to them, and they feel like 30g switches to me even though mine are supposedly rated as 45g +/- 5g. They are very quiet, however.

I also have a RealForce HiPro and while the genuine Topre switches are very nice, the dishing on the keycaps feels strange to my fingers. I prefer SP's SA profile personally. I also like the sheer variety of SA keycaps available, whereas with a HiPro you are stuck with what comes on it. Topre has no plans to make replacement sphericals in the future, so in order to swap out one color of HiPros with another, you'd have to buy a second board with different colored keycaps (which would be an adventure unto itself).
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: nocturalowl on Fri, 13 November 2015, 11:05:52: Quote from: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 07:36:29
Oooh, another excuse to post this photo!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Z7sYawo.jpg)

;D

I'm using Novatouch sliders in my HHKB. If you don't want to spend ridiculous amounts of money though (I have two Novatouch boards now because the GF was jealous of oneness with cup rubber), and you don't have a board already, I'd opt for a Novatouch straight away. Or as Oobly mentioned, can get one of the clones for the sliders if the Novatouch isn't to your liking. I like the Novatouch though. But only with silencing rings on the sliders. No modifications necessary to get the SA keycaps to work when running a Novatouch. Drilling required on a HHKB.

I am, of course, talking about standard MX stemmed SA keycaps.

WOW that is the most beautiful HHKB i ever see. :cool:
What keycap is that ?
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: keshley on Fri, 13 November 2015, 11:39:06: Quote from: nocturalowl on Fri, 13 November 2015, 11:05:52
Quote from: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 07:36:29
Oooh, another excuse to post this photo!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Z7sYawo.jpg)

;D

I'm using Novatouch sliders in my HHKB. If you don't want to spend ridiculous amounts of money though (I have two Novatouch boards now because the GF was jealous of oneness with cup rubber), and you don't have a board already, I'd opt for a Novatouch straight away. Or as Oobly mentioned, can get one of the clones for the sliders if the Novatouch isn't to your liking. I like the Novatouch though. But only with silencing rings on the sliders. No modifications necessary to get the SA keycaps to work when running a Novatouch. Drilling required on a HHKB.

I am, of course, talking about standard MX stemmed SA keycaps.

WOW that is the most beautiful HHKB i ever see. :cool:
What keycap is that ?

Thanks!

Its Round 5 Honeywell. (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Round_5)
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: Kudos on Fri, 13 November 2015, 11:44:57: As mentioned before, SA is exclusive to SP. If you were looking for spherical keycaps and don't want to get a Hi-Pro or do a slider swap, there's always this:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Nissho_KB106DE

Though not common stateside, I've seen it quite a bit on JP Yahoo Auctions. You'll likely need a proxy though. Good luck!
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: TieuNgu on Sun, 15 November 2015, 12:47:34: Is there any different in feels when you use MX sliders on HHKB?
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: keshley on Mon, 16 November 2015, 11:15:56: I haven't noticed any difference. AFAIK, they're made out of the same material, so should feel the same.

A note: I don't recall offhand if the stab 'casing' pops out on the HHKB, so drilling may not be required. I thought mine was one piece, as I would have just popped them out of the Novatouch and replaced them, rather than having to drill, but I just don't remember. The spacebar stabs snap out though.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 19 November 2015, 03:20:42: Quote from: keshley on Mon, 16 November 2015, 11:15:56
I haven't noticed any difference. AFAIK, they're made out of the same material, so should feel the same.

A note: I don't recall offhand if the stab 'casing' pops out on the HHKB, so drilling may not be required. I thought mine was one piece, as I would have just popped them out of the Novatouch and replaced them, rather than having to drill, but I just don't remember. The spacebar stabs snap out though.

Looks to me like it's just the spacebar stab holders that pop out, the others look molded in:

(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=66371.0;attach=83377;image)

So with the HHKB you probably have to cut holes for the Novatouch stabs, but it doesn't affect the functionality or reversibility of the mod (the holes are covered by the caps)
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: keshley on Thu, 19 November 2015, 07:24:43: Quote from: Oobly on Thu, 19 November 2015, 03:20:42
Quote from: keshley on Mon, 16 November 2015, 11:15:56
I haven't noticed any difference. AFAIK, they're made out of the same material, so should feel the same.

A note: I don't recall offhand if the stab 'casing' pops out on the HHKB, so drilling may not be required. I thought mine was one piece, as I would have just popped them out of the Novatouch and replaced them, rather than having to drill, but I just don't remember. The spacebar stabs snap out though.

Looks to me like it's just the spacebar stab holders that pop out, the others look molded in:

Show Image
(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=66371.0;attach=83377;image)

So with the HHKB you probably have to cut holes for the Novatouch stabs, but it doesn't affect the functionality or reversibility of the mod (the holes are covered by the caps)

Aye, that's what I remember, but I didn't have any actual photos of it, so was doubting myself. Thanks for the verification, my HHKB has been busy lately, so haven't had a chance to pop any keys off.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: frekedech on Sun, 29 November 2015, 05:10:26: Quote from: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 11:03:41

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VrA2Oxb.jpg)

And now post-drilling with the MX compatible Topre stabilizer:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kq8DZRh.jpg)

This is really an interesting project!
Just curious though, Did you replace (move) the SA Spacebar's stem or is there any other wizardy to make this possible? :-*
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: keshley on Sun, 29 November 2015, 07:10:29: Quote from: frekedech on Sun, 29 November 2015, 05:10:26
Quote from: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 11:03:41

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VrA2Oxb.jpg)

And now post-drilling with the MX compatible Topre stabilizer:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kq8DZRh.jpg)

This is really an interesting project!
Just curious though, Did you replace (move) the SA Spacebar's stem or is there any other wizardy to make this possible? :-*

Nope, although I did glue in the costar stabilizers I had - they weren't tight.
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: frekedech on Sun, 29 November 2015, 11:01:43: Quote from: keshley on Sun, 29 November 2015, 07:10:29
Quote from: frekedech on Sun, 29 November 2015, 05:10:26
Quote from: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 11:03:41

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VrA2Oxb.jpg)

And now post-drilling with the MX compatible Topre stabilizer:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kq8DZRh.jpg)

This is really an interesting project!
Just curious though, Did you replace (move) the SA Spacebar's stem or is there any other wizardy to make this possible? :-*

Nope, although I did glue in the costar stabilizers I had - they weren't tight.

That's a great one! Do you mind to snap some pics of the stabs configurations? This will definitely inspire me to re-build my HHKB after I gather enough courage.

Appreciate it. Thank you... :p
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: keshley on Mon, 30 November 2015, 06:09:06: Quote from: frekedech on Sun, 29 November 2015, 11:01:43
Quote from: keshley on Sun, 29 November 2015, 07:10:29
Quote from: frekedech on Sun, 29 November 2015, 05:10:26
Quote from: keshley on Fri, 16 October 2015, 11:03:41

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VrA2Oxb.jpg)

And now post-drilling with the MX compatible Topre stabilizer:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/kq8DZRh.jpg)

This is really an interesting project!
Just curious though, Did you replace (move) the SA Spacebar's stem or is there any other wizardy to make this possible? :-*

Nope, although I did glue in the costar stabilizers I had - they weren't tight.

That's a great one! Do you mind to snap some pics of the stabs configurations? This will definitely inspire me to re-build my HHKB after I gather enough courage.

Appreciate it. Thank you... :p

Here's a potato, should give you an idea of how it works:

(http://i.imgur.com/t3hp3aW.jpg)
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: frekedech on Tue, 01 December 2015, 01:18:31: Quote from: keshley on Mon, 30 November 2015, 06:09:06

Here's a potato, should give you an idea of how it works:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/t3hp3aW.jpg)

Awesome! This will be an inspiration for the rest of us. Thanks a lot for your effort and the tip-sharing :p
Title: Re: Topre SA keycaps other than HiPro?
Post by: slushi on Tue, 01 December 2015, 01:48:20: Quick tip. I drilled my hhkb as well. I used a conical drill bit. Just taped up the housing to prevent from cracking and drilled. The conical bit made it very easy.

For pics of mine, just check out the HHKB Pro Love thread. (On phone so can't link right now).

Good luck guys!