Post by: missalaire on Tue, 20 October 2015, 23:57:42
Taken from Ducky's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/117547488320354/photos/a.117548801653556.22498.117547488320354/946110648797363/?type=3
Post by: katushkin on Tue, 20 October 2015, 23:59:51
Post by: missalaire on Wed, 21 October 2015, 00:02:39
Post by: njbair on Wed, 21 October 2015, 00:03:12
Post by: KaminKevCrew on Wed, 21 October 2015, 00:25:53
So... Zealios?But now with a milky bottom!!!
Post by: tararais on Wed, 21 October 2015, 00:29:58
Post by: ika on Wed, 21 October 2015, 00:30:20
Post by: Oobly on Wed, 21 October 2015, 04:39:17
I do like the MX Silent sliders, but no tactile variant yet, soo.... not interested in anything "genuine" Cherry right now.
If these "new Whites" have a better chosen spring weight and newly manufactured smooth sliders... they'll still be worse than linear Zealios due to their wobbly tops and milky bottoms.
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 21 October 2015, 04:44:50
With the release of Zealios, genuine Cherry MX have become irrelevant to me. Who wants wobbly tops and stems, scratchy sliders, milky bottoms and poorly chosen spring weights? I need to do a lot of mods to make MX switches worth using.
I do like the MX Silent sliders, but no tactile variant yet, soo.... not interested in anything "genuine" Cherry right now.
If these "new Whites" have a better chosen spring weight and newly manufactured smooth sliders... they'll still be worse than linear Zealios due to their wobbly tops and milky bottoms.
I completely agree, clears were the only cherry switches I still bough before Zealios because of the many better-manufactured alternatives. Cherry needs to step up their quality a lot to regain me as a customer, but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.
Post by: Puddsy on Wed, 21 October 2015, 10:25:52
i'll reserve judgement on these until i get a chance with them
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 21 October 2015, 10:34:50
Post by: Hyde on Thu, 22 October 2015, 01:06:34
I don't think there is much market for heavier than black since there is already linear grey.
Hoprfully we'll find out next week.
Post by: SamirD on Thu, 22 October 2015, 07:29:43
...but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.Clearly someone at Cherry realizes this, or they wouldn't be introducing a new switch. Too bad all it would take is getting back to their old quality control methods that made them a household name in the first place.
Post by: tararais on Sun, 25 October 2015, 20:42:40
...but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.Clearly someone at Cherry realizes this, or they wouldn't be introducing a new switch. Too bad all it would take is getting back to their old quality control methods that made them a household name in the first place.
Problem is, back then people didn't have such a cheap alternative. Regardless of whatever quality, most people still won't drop $100+ on a board when you can buy a $5 rubber dome.
Post by: ideus on Sun, 25 October 2015, 20:47:21
With the release of Zealios, genuine Cherry MX have become irrelevant to me. Who wants wobbly tops and stems, scratchy sliders, milky bottoms and poorly chosen spring weights? I need to do a lot of mods to make MX switches worth using.
I do like the MX Silent sliders, but no tactile variant yet, soo.... not interested in anything "genuine" Cherry right now.
If these "new Whites" have a better chosen spring weight and newly manufactured smooth sliders... they'll still be worse than linear Zealios due to their wobbly tops and milky bottoms.
I completely agree, clears were the only cherry switches I still bough before Zealios because of the many better-manufactured alternatives. Cherry needs to step up their quality a lot to regain me as a customer, but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.
+1 I also still like the clears to swap springs and make ergos.
Post by: Kola93 on Sun, 25 October 2015, 21:08:34
Post by: SamirD on Sun, 25 October 2015, 21:19:23
But there is still a quality standard that people expect. I mean, if they never dropped their standards to begin with the 'clone wars' would never have started....but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.Clearly someone at Cherry realizes this, or they wouldn't be introducing a new switch. Too bad all it would take is getting back to their old quality control methods that made them a household name in the first place.
Problem is, back then people didn't have such a cheap alternative. Regardless of whatever quality, most people still won't drop $100+ on a board when you can buy a $5 rubber dome.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 27 October 2015, 07:44:03
But there is still a quality standard that people expect. I mean, if they never dropped their standards to begin with the 'clone wars' would never have started....but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.Clearly someone at Cherry realizes this, or they wouldn't be introducing a new switch. Too bad all it would take is getting back to their old quality control methods that made them a household name in the first place.
Problem is, back then people didn't have such a cheap alternative. Regardless of whatever quality, most people still won't drop $100+ on a board when you can buy a $5 rubber dome.
Companies just realized they could sell much cheaper clones for the same price as the real thing.
Post by: Hyde on Tue, 27 October 2015, 14:46:14
So basically between MX Red and MX Black.
:thumb:
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 28 October 2015, 08:52:38
But the clones are better quality too, are they not?But there is still a quality standard that people expect. I mean, if they never dropped their standards to begin with the 'clone wars' would never have started....but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.Clearly someone at Cherry realizes this, or they wouldn't be introducing a new switch. Too bad all it would take is getting back to their old quality control methods that made them a household name in the first place.
Problem is, back then people didn't have such a cheap alternative. Regardless of whatever quality, most people still won't drop $100+ on a board when you can buy a $5 rubber dome.
Companies just realized they could sell much cheaper clones for the same price as the real thing.
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 28 October 2015, 08:58:17
But the clones are better quality too, are they not?But there is still a quality standard that people expect. I mean, if they never dropped their standards to begin with the 'clone wars' would never have started....but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.Clearly someone at Cherry realizes this, or they wouldn't be introducing a new switch. Too bad all it would take is getting back to their old quality control methods that made them a household name in the first place.
Problem is, back then people didn't have such a cheap alternative. Regardless of whatever quality, most people still won't drop $100+ on a board when you can buy a $5 rubber dome.
Companies just realized they could sell much cheaper clones for the same price as the real thing.
Not necessarily and they haven't been on the market long enough to be proven long term.
I'm also wondering if some of these 'cherry switches' people have had major issues with were actually genuine cherry switches.
Post by: SamirD on Wed, 28 October 2015, 11:18:35
Gotcha. I kind of wonder that too since a lot of the marketing is misleading.But the clones are better quality too, are they not?But there is still a quality standard that people expect. I mean, if they never dropped their standards to begin with the 'clone wars' would never have started....but I think they've become such a market-standard there's literally no incentive for them to do that.Clearly someone at Cherry realizes this, or they wouldn't be introducing a new switch. Too bad all it would take is getting back to their old quality control methods that made them a household name in the first place.
Problem is, back then people didn't have such a cheap alternative. Regardless of whatever quality, most people still won't drop $100+ on a board when you can buy a $5 rubber dome.
Companies just realized they could sell much cheaper clones for the same price as the real thing.
Not necessarily and they haven't been on the market long enough to be proven long term.
I'm also wondering if some of these 'cherry switches' people have had major issues with were actually genuine cherry switches.
Post by: Oobly on Thu, 29 October 2015, 02:53:22
From my testing with Zealios, even using a smooth slider in a stock black MX case doesn't feel smooth, so you need both new slider and case molds to have a good result. So if they're using new molds for the RGB bottom case and if they're using new molds for the silent sliders, those may be as smooth as Gaterons, but I'm not holding my breath.
Another difference is the Gateron contact leaves have stronger sideways spring force and smaller curvature radius at the contact point, which means less contact area and increased side force. This leads to slightly more abrupt changes in direction of feel on tactile slider bumps and slightly stronger tactility and slider leg angle influence (on linears this reduces the spring force a touch only). The crosspoints are also not coated, so they may not last as long as Cherry "gold cross-point" contacts. The contact pins do tarnish easily from handling, so they may not handle long term storage as well as MX also. Not sure about Kailh and other clones as I don't have any.
Post by: Kad on Thu, 29 October 2015, 18:59:08
Post by: Zeal on Thu, 29 October 2015, 19:13:53
Gateron cases and sliders are much smoother than genuine MX. The MX molds have been in use for a long time and they need to be renewed / replaced. I'm interested to see if the new "silent" switches are any less "scratchy" than the others, since they're probably from new molds. These linear whites will probably use the existing Red / Black slider molds, so I don't expect them to be smooth.
From my testing with Zealios, even using a smooth slider in a stock black MX case doesn't feel smooth, so you need both new slider and case molds to have a good result. So if they're using new molds for the RGB bottom case and if they're using new molds for the silent sliders, those may be as smooth as Gaterons, but I'm not holding my breath.
Another difference is the Gateron contact leaves have stronger sideways spring force and smaller curvature radius at the contact point, which means less contact area and increased side force. This leads to slightly more abrupt changes in direction of feel on tactile slider bumps and slightly stronger tactility and slider leg angle influence (on linears this reduces the spring force a touch only). The crosspoints are also not coated, so they may not last as long as Cherry "gold cross-point" contacts. The contact pins do tarnish easily from handling, so they may not handle long term storage as well as MX also. Not sure about Kailh and other clones as I don't have any.
I'm not quite sure why people are saying the contact points are not gold plated. I've taken a few macro pics last month to disprove this. Feel free to use the images and discuss though. I'm all ears.
Cherry on left, Gateron on right
(http://i.imgur.com/vI43my8.jpg)
(yes, those are pores in the Cherry leaf)
(http://i.imgur.com/XSLuERR.jpg)
(more pores visible)
(http://i.imgur.com/hUlqTGO.jpg)
Also called it (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/3plf98/new_cherry_mx_linear_rgb_white_switch_ducky_shine/cw7dezp) that MX RGB "Whites" (will prob be called clears in NA) would be a clone of Zealio clears. :P
Post by: Oobly on Fri, 30 October 2015, 03:57:23
Gateron cases and sliders are much smoother than genuine MX. The MX molds have been in use for a long time and they need to be renewed / replaced. I'm interested to see if the new "silent" switches are any less "scratchy" than the others, since they're probably from new molds. These linear whites will probably use the existing Red / Black slider molds, so I don't expect them to be smooth.
From my testing with Zealios, even using a smooth slider in a stock black MX case doesn't feel smooth, so you need both new slider and case molds to have a good result. So if they're using new molds for the RGB bottom case and if they're using new molds for the silent sliders, those may be as smooth as Gaterons, but I'm not holding my breath.
Another difference is the Gateron contact leaves have stronger sideways spring force and smaller curvature radius at the contact point, which means less contact area and increased side force. This leads to slightly more abrupt changes in direction of feel on tactile slider bumps and slightly stronger tactility and slider leg angle influence (on linears this reduces the spring force a touch only). The crosspoints are also not coated, so they may not last as long as Cherry "gold cross-point" contacts. The contact pins do tarnish easily from handling, so they may not handle long term storage as well as MX also. Not sure about Kailh and other clones as I don't have any.
I'm not quite sure why people are saying the contact points are not gold plated. I've taken a few macro pics last month to disprove this. Feel free to use the images and discuss though. I'm all ears.
Cherry on left, Gateron on rightShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/vI43my8.jpg)
(yes, those are pores in the Cherry leaf)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XSLuERR.jpg)
(more pores visible)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/hUlqTGO.jpg)
Also called it (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/3plf98/new_cherry_mx_linear_rgb_white_switch_ducky_shine/cw7dezp) that MX RGB "Whites" (will prob be called clears in NA) would be a clone of Zealio clears. :P
Veeery interesting. I recall someone posting that they're not coated in some review thread I think, and since I haven't ever seen mention that they were until this post of yours, I assumed they weren't. It's never good to assume. It seems Gaterons do indeed have gold alloy contacts: https://www.dropbox.com/s/alui4vz5c5xohlf/SPEC-KS-3-006_KS-3Y10B050NW-X1_Rev-1%20%E9%BB%84%E8%BD%B4%28%E6%9C%89%E6%9F%B1%29.pdf
Another thing I apparently got wrong is the curve of the part that touches the slider legs. I thought the Gateron was a tighter curve, but it's actually the Cherry one that's tighter. The difference can be felt with tactile sliders, but not linears. It's minimal anyway. The Gateron has a slightly larger contact area to the slider due to this, so they should take longer to wear.
The uncoated copper on the pins does tend to discolour and tarnish easily from finger oils, but they still solder nicely and you're not likely to touch the inner parts. Loving my Purple Zealios :)
Hehe, Cherry cloning a clone of their own. Still hoping for a "silent" 62g Clear made with new molds. Or a MkII tactile Zealio with damped sliders. That would be even better.
Post by: missalaire on Tue, 10 November 2015, 21:36:28
The actuation force for the RGB Nature White’s is 55 cN, which puts it in the middle of the 45 cN Cherry MX Reds and the 60 cN Cherry MX blacks.
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 11 November 2015, 00:26:28
http://www.kitguru.net/peripherals/keyboards/jon-martindale/cherry-announces-new-mechanical-switch-mx-rgb-nature-white/
The actuation force for the RGB Nature White’s is 55 cN, which puts it in the middle of the 45 cN Cherry MX Reds and the 60 cN Cherry MX blacks.
I don't really understand why they created this switch... they already cover the linear segment of the market pretty well
Post by: shibataken on Wed, 11 November 2015, 09:36:15
Post by: Waateva on Wed, 11 November 2015, 10:35:05
If anything this is just going to thoroughly confuse people, so now we've got clicky white, tactile clear and linear white, is it safe to assume the only reason for this 'white' stem is to somehow further diffuse the RGB LEDs?
What about just calling it Linear Frost or something like that to differentiate it from the Clear and White switches?
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 11 November 2015, 10:40:57
Post by: MeltingTeeth on Wed, 11 November 2015, 12:40:36
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 11 November 2015, 13:30:26
Is there a big enough group of users that felt blacks were too stiff but reds were too light? Surely being a switch in between is a very niche case of a small set of users?
Pretty big group I'd say, anyone who mod their linear switch would aim for the middle weight.
I've always felt black is too heavy and red is too light.
Now I guess ducky probably had to order a large quantity from cherry for the to make this. But I think this will pay off in the long run.
:thumb:
Post by: KRKS on Wed, 11 November 2015, 13:31:00