I wish people would stop trying to shove dedicated cursor arrows into a 60% keyboard. They don't belong there. If you need cursor arrows, try a TKL or 75%. Or do like we all do, and learn to use the arrows on a function layer.I built this with Hack'd by Geeks in mind.
Even if you were to get a nice keycap set made for this project, you are limited to those stock keycaps. Want to use your Hack'd By Geeks or GMK HyperFuse set with this keyboard? Sorry.
I admire your drive to get YOUR ideal layout produced and offer it for others, but you are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.
- Many extra 1.25/1.75 keycaps for different use cases, 1.25 Shift, 1.25 Win, 1.25 Fn-like keycaps, 1.75 Caps-Lock, 1.75 Fn, 1.75 Control
I would be in immediately, one year ago; but now, the arrows in a sixty keyboard are not an issue any more, that was solved using the elegant concept of Space-FN; therefore, there is no need for special hardware and my boards can use authentic OG Cherry and GMK.
Good luck with your project, it may pull the interest of Leopold FC660 and TKL users, if for the last their main interest are the arrows, only.
Hi KHAANNN,
I've been noticing your keyboard in your other posts and admiring the intelligent layout.
Since my first try of the HHKB Pro 2, I have adopted that layout for all my keyboards (achieved via remapping software), so my layout preferences are decidedly biased toward that of the HHKB.
With this in mind, I like the layout of your 60% board, but I would have to change some things:
1. I would need to swap the Backspace and Backslash keys.
2. I use the Right Shift almost exclusively, and I have found that I need the Right Shift to be at least 1.25x. This would of course knock out the arrow keys for me, but I am fine using Fn plus the HHKB cursor diamond for the arrow keys.
For those who can use the Left Shift in preference to the Right Shift, your layout could be ideal.
Best wishes for success with your project.
I wish people would stop trying to shove dedicated cursor arrows into a 60% keyboard. They don't belong there. If you need cursor arrows, try a TKL or 75%. Or do like we all do, and learn to use the arrows on a function layer.
Even if you were to get a nice keycap set made for this project, you are limited to those stock keycaps. Want to use your Hack'd By Geeks or GMK HyperFuse set with this keyboard? Sorry.
I admire your drive to get YOUR ideal layout produced and offer it for others, but you are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.
- Many extra 1.25/1.75 keycaps for different use cases, 1.25 Shift, 1.25 Win, 1.25 Fn-like keycaps, 1.75 Caps-Lock, 1.75 Fn, 1.75 Control
This should be listed under cons.
I like this and would add (for those who need a right shift) that if you use EasyAVR firmware you can use a tapkey to make it so that if you tap "up" it's an up arrow, but if you hold it it's a standard shift key. Not sure if that's available in TMK but I'm guessing not or I'm sure it would be mentioned more often in discussions like this :)
I wish people would stop trying to shove dedicated cursor arrows into a 60% keyboard. They don't belong there. If you need cursor arrows, try a TKL or 75%. Or do like we all do, and learn to use the arrows on a function layer.
Even if you were to get a nice keycap set made for this project, you are limited to those stock keycaps. Want to use your Hack'd By Geeks or GMK HyperFuse set with this keyboard? Sorry.
I admire your drive to get YOUR ideal layout produced and offer it for others, but you are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.
I admire your drive to get YOUR ideal layout produced and offer it for others, but you are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.
I admire your drive to get YOUR ideal layout produced and offer it for others, but you are looking for a solution to a problem that does not exist.
A problem that doesn't exist? Pretty much universally 60% are criticized by users for the lack of arrow keys. It's an adapt or give up on the board situation, but not everyone is satisfied with the Function layer solution or software-based layouts.
The real drawback of this proposed layout isn't the idea but the lack of compatibility with custom keycaps.
The Leopold FC660 was designed as a kind of half-way compromise although even it has a non-standard space bar.
Ugh - by your logic, nobody should ever use any alternative layouts which would discard 80% of the community.
I'm on board with this idea because my specific usage reflects OP's in many aspects. I've been using a Pok3r for a couple months and there are many things i like about it. Using func+arrows works fine for programming but there are some Photoshop operations that i use daily that require I jump between 3-4 modifier keys + arrows to use function layer arrows, this really slows me down and discarding the entire bottom right side of my board in favor of arrows would be a huge improvement for me.
I like keycap sets, probably more than most, but I always favor utility over looks.
Pretty much universally 60% are criticized by users for the lack of arrow keys. It's an adapt or give up on the board situation, but not everyone is satisfied with the Function layer solution or software-based layouts.
This is an interest check, if there isn't support it'll die out, what's the harm in that?Ugh - by your logic, nobody should ever use any alternative layouts which would discard 80% of the community.
Really? 80%? I'm sure you have some research to back up your statistic, right? Last I checked, the vast majority of keyboard enthusiasts were using standard ANSI, split between full size, TKL, and 60%.I'm on board with this idea because my specific usage reflects OP's in many aspects. I've been using a Pok3r for a couple months and there are many things i like about it. Using func+arrows works fine for programming but there are some Photoshop operations that i use daily that require I jump between 3-4 modifier keys + arrows to use function layer arrows, this really slows me down and discarding the entire bottom right side of my board in favor of arrows would be a huge improvement for me.
Sounds like you would be much better served in your case by using a TKL (80%) keyboard. I use a full size at work, because I input a lot of numbers, and having a numpad is of great benefit. But that doesn't mean that full size is my favorite form factor.I like keycap sets, probably more than most, but I always favor utility over looks.
If you owned many more keycap sets than you own keyboards, you would probably change your mind about that.Pretty much universally 60% are criticized by users for the lack of arrow keys. It's an adapt or give up on the board situation, but not everyone is satisfied with the Function layer solution or software-based layouts.
Tell that to the thousands of happy Poker owners. A very small number of 60% keyboard users find that they can't live without dedicated cursor arrows (or a dedicated function row, for that matter).
Tell that to the thousands of happy Poker owners. A very small number of 60% keyboard users find that they can't live without dedicated cursor arrows (or a dedicated function row, for that matter).
There is a pool for compact keyboard with dedicated arrows at MD now. The images shows the top options.
Similar arguments could be made for 40% and 45% keyboards. They are certainly in a niche, but people still like them. Why design the jd40 or jd45?
<snip>Yes! My overall all-time favorite keyboard is the HHKB Pro 2. I don't use it exclusively, however, because I like to introduce some variety from time to time with respect to switch type and form factor. Nevertheless, when using other keyboards, I use remapping software to create a layout as close as possible to that of the HHKB Pro 2.
I guess I am biased when it comes to the 60% form factor, as I use the best layout available (HHKB) exclusively. I have no trouble at all doing everyday typing tasks when using the HHKB layout on a 60%, but using a standard ANSI layout on a 60% annoys me.
I guess I am biased when it comes to the 60% form factor, as I use the best layout available (HHKB) exclusively. I have no trouble at all doing everyday typing tasks when using the HHKB layout on a 60%, but using a standard ANSI layout on a 60% annoys me.
Oh I agree the hhkb is a great layout and standard ansi on a 60% is a bad idea. As far as I know, he isn't asking a manufacturer to make the layout, rather he is proposing the project as a partnership amongst different companies with a single distributor to make it easy for the end user.Similar arguments could be made for 40% and 45% keyboards. They are certainly in a niche, but people still like them. Why design the jd40 or jd45?
The difference is that I'm not asking TEX or Matias to produce them for me. I am intimately aware that the 40% and similar form factor is an extremely niche product, with a very limited potential user base. So much so, in fact, that I never intended the JD40 to be a "production" keyboard. The original PCB I specified had several shortcomings, which necessitated having the PCB completely revised for what I consider the (upcoming) production version.
I guess I am biased when it comes to the 60% form factor, as I use the best layout available (HHKB) exclusively. I have no trouble at all doing everyday typing tasks when using the HHKB layout on a 60%, but using a standard ANSI layout on a 60% annoys me.
This is very confusing, is this IC about JD40s, now?If you add keys and make it look like the OP
This is very confusing, is this IC about JD40s, now?If you add keys and make it look like the OP
Fair. With that said, I very much like the OP proposal, though I don't know what the 1.25u arrows would feel like.This is very confusing, is this IC about JD40s, now?If you add keys and make it look like the OP
Suddenly, the discussion turned to be on JD's and HHKB. It appears something very frequent, the OP gets derailed, mostly by people that are not interested at all in the OP's proposal.
Fair. With that said, I very much like the OP proposal, though I don't know what the 1.25u arrows would feel like.
What you meant is that regular 1u arrows are unusable? I am not sure to follow your reasoning and the existent TKL and full size keyboards are a testimony that 1u arrows work.
The ultimate solution is probably like Apple have done with the Macbook Pro keyboard. Someone just needs to release half-sized cherry mx switches. I remember seeing a post on reddit about some manufacturer showing off these kinds of switches on some exhibition.
OP, the KBT Pure is very close to your design.Show Image(http://blog-imgs-51.fc2.com/w/a/t/watchmonoblog/KBT_Pure_60_01.jpg)
After pressing FN-Space, the keys to the right will act as arrow keys.
It also places tilde on the right side which may be more useful than a small shift.
Also, many keycap sets come with keys to support this layout.
You should ignore the people saying arrow keys don't belong on a 60% layout. It's definitely a desired feature.
The ultimate solution is probably like Apple have done with the Macbook Pro keyboard. Someone just needs to release half-sized cherry mx switches. I remember seeing a post on reddit about some manufacturer showing off these kinds of switches on some exhibition.
The ultimate solution is probably like Apple have done with the Macbook Pro keyboard. Someone just needs to release half-sized cherry mx switches. I remember seeing a post on reddit about some manufacturer showing off these kinds of switches on some exhibition.Show Image(http://matias.ca/60/pc/resources/images/matias60_header_1.jpg)
The ultimate solution is probably like Apple have done with the Macbook Pro keyboard. Someone just needs to release half-sized cherry mx switches. I remember seeing a post on reddit about some manufacturer showing off these kinds of switches on some exhibition.Show Image(http://matias.ca/60/pc/resources/images/matias60_header_1.jpg)
That's not Cherry MX.The ultimate solution is probably like Apple have done with the Macbook Pro keyboard. Someone just needs to release half-sized cherry mx switches. I remember seeing a post on reddit about some manufacturer showing off these kinds of switches on some exhibition.
[snip]