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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: cryptokey on Wed, 18 November 2015, 20:39:42

Title: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 18 November 2015, 20:39:42
Does anybody know what could be causing this with my spacebar?  I have attached a youtube video to show what I mean with details in the description.  Thanks for any help!

https://youtu.be/senkR6rxkGM (https://youtu.be/senkR6rxkGM)

Pictures of spacebar Cherry MX Brown switch:

(http://i.imgur.com/HD7TgoP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/YCxfRww.jpgp)

(http://i.imgur.com/F7E7gBi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gAMLcTF.jpg)
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 18 November 2015, 23:04:31
bump.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 19 November 2015, 03:33:58
MX browns?

Is it possible that the space bar stem is catching on the edges of the switch?

Can you try a couple of different space bars, and maybe measure the stem under the space bar to see if it is a bit wider than it should be?
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: jaffers on Thu, 19 November 2015, 04:06:12
It's also possible that the stabilizer is catching in an upright position
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: 1swt2gs on Thu, 19 November 2015, 13:50:52
Have you tried a different spacebar?
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Thu, 19 November 2015, 21:00:09
MX browns?

Is it possible that the space bar stem is catching on the edges of the switch?

Can you try a couple of different space bars, and maybe measure the stem under the space bar to see if it is a bit wider than it should be?

Yes, MX Browns.  And what exactly do you mean by the spacebar stem catching on the edge of the switch - how could I check this? 

Have you tried a different spacebar?

I just tried my pok3r spacebar and it was even worse.  So in terms of best to worst for spacebar resistance/mushiness, it's WASD > Tai Hao > pok3r
Also, note that when I use the tai-hao, wasd, and pok3r spacebars on my pok3r, they all work fine with the pok3r's cherry mx stabilizers.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 20 November 2015, 03:45:44
I wonder if the space bar switch is misaligned somehow.

A good clear photo might show that.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Fri, 20 November 2015, 12:51:50
I wonder if the space bar switch is misaligned somehow.

A good clear photo might show that.

I updated the OP with pictures of the spacebar's switch. 
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 20 November 2015, 12:56:06
What happens if you leave the costar inserts out?
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: Homenubbie on Fri, 20 November 2015, 14:12:10
Switch looks fine.  Have you tried stabilizer lube?
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 22 November 2015, 00:04:39
What happens if you leave the costar inserts out?

Try this, but only press on the middle of the space bar.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Sun, 22 November 2015, 21:42:51
Switch looks fine.  Have you tried stabilizer lube?

Yeah, I used Dielectric Grease as per usual.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Sun, 22 November 2015, 21:47:58
What happens if you leave the costar inserts out?

What happens if you leave the costar inserts out?

Try this, but only press on the middle of the space bar.

Good idea.  With the coastar inserts removed, the resistance stays, however with the wire removed, the resistance completely goes away! The wire really doesn't seem bent though.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 22 November 2015, 21:55:02
It's the way the stab inserts fit into the spacebar. Some people use small pieces of plastic sandwich  baggie inserted between the stab insert and hole.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: KHAANNN on Mon, 23 November 2015, 13:50:09
This thread might help you: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73871.0

There are various things that can go wrong

Weak springs like browns are also not very forgiving
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 25 November 2015, 22:02:29
This thread might help you: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=73871.0

There are various things that can go wrong

Weak springs like browns are also not very forgiving

Hey, thanks for the suggestion!  I looked at your other posts and decided to try the 2mmx10mm folded pieces of paper.  After trying this, it worked!  No more stabilizer grinding.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 25 November 2015, 22:15:57
Costar stabs are very workable, you can make them work however you want

I personally bend the ends upwards a bit, also clip the inner sides of the inserts, this way they have a stronger grip, they grip both sides, so the clinkiness is reduced to 0, you get a smooth keypress wherever you press the key from (I was going to make a post describing this process, but never got around to it, this comes close: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72076.0 - it's really hard to get it right tho)

You can also lube various parts of the assembly to make things smoother, but it's always better to solve issues without the lube, then add the lube later on for smoothness + longevity

As another suggestion, make sure you have a lot of spare inserts, wires, holders etc. :)
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 25 November 2015, 22:34:23
Costar stabs are very workable, you can make them work however you want

I personally bend the ends upwards a bit, also clip the inner sides of the inserts, this way they have a stronger grip, they grip both sides, so the clinkiness is reduced to 0, you get a smooth keypress wherever you press the key from (I was going to make a post describing this process, but never got around to it, this comes close: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72076.0 - it's really hard to get it right tho)

You can also lube various parts of the assembly to make things smoother, but it's always better to solve issues without the lube, then add the lube later on for smoothness + longevity

As another suggestion, make sure you have a lot of spare inserts, wires, holders etc. :)

Edit: it doesn't grind but now it occasionally sticks at the bottom of the press, any ideas?
Thanks for the suggestions by the way! By bend the ends upwards, do you mean if the wire is on a flat surface, to bend the small ends upwards?  Also, how would clipping the inserts lead to a stonger grip?
Lastly, you mentioned that the brown's aren't the best for this issue so do you think it would help at all if I put a clear in for my spacebar?
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: ika on Wed, 25 November 2015, 22:40:08
I had the same problem with the 2u costar stabs on my 58g sprung ergo cleared ergodox. I had to swap out to the stock clear spring, and it's still ass to use. Costar, never again. Pain in the ass to install and interferes with proper function.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 25 November 2015, 22:43:10
I had the same problem with the 2u costar stabs on my 58g sprung ergo cleared ergodox. I had to swap out to the stock clear spring, and it's still ass to use. Costar, never again. Pain in the ass to install and interferes with proper function.

As much as I'd like to use my spare plate-mount cherry stabilizers, the WASD Code plate is incompatible  :-X
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 25 November 2015, 23:11:19
Costar stabs are very workable, you can make them work however you want

I personally bend the ends upwards a bit, also clip the inner sides of the inserts, this way they have a stronger grip, they grip both sides, so the clinkiness is reduced to 0, you get a smooth keypress wherever you press the key from (I was going to make a post describing this process, but never got around to it, this comes close: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72076.0 - it's really hard to get it right tho)

You can also lube various parts of the assembly to make things smoother, but it's always better to solve issues without the lube, then add the lube later on for smoothness + longevity

As another suggestion, make sure you have a lot of spare inserts, wires, holders etc. :)

Edit: it doesn't grind but now it occasionally sticks at the bottom of the press, any ideas?
Thanks for the suggestions by the way! By bend the ends upwards, do you mean if the wire is on a flat surface, to bend the small ends upwards?  Also, how would clipping the inserts lead to a stonger grip?
Lastly, you mentioned that the brown's aren't the best for this issue so do you think it would help at all if I put a clear in for my spacebar?

shave the inner side of the keycap with a dremel, it seems like you have a keycap incompatibility, since the new keyset caused the issues, but verify that the wire indeed touches the keycap first

I bend the small ends upwards from the resting position, I clip the inserts, as bending the upwards makes the wire eat the insert, by clipping the inner part, the slightly upwards bended wire is able to roam freely, but this mod is too much at this stage, first solve the grinding issue

Putting in a clear spring can suppress the issue, but the issue will still be there

I use Cherry MX Red's to calibrate my stabiliser wires, the weak linear switch is the best to tune the stabiliser, I then install the modded wire/keycap into the actual keyboard (have several stabiliser tuning plates)
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 25 November 2015, 23:12:59
Also make sure the spacebar doesn't rub onto the enclosure, sometimes that's the cause of the jams

For example, with my KBP V60, which has Cherry stabs, I could only use the default keyset, D/SA keycaps just rubbed onto the case
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: cryptokey on Wed, 25 November 2015, 23:40:23
Also make sure the spacebar doesn't rub onto the enclosure, sometimes that's the cause of the jams

For example, with my KBP V60, which has Cherry stabs, I could only use the default keyset, D/SA keycaps just rubbed onto the case

Okay, so it looks like my next step will be to shave the inner side of the keycap.  Fortunately I've already got a dremel.
Title: Re: [Help] Spacebar sticking with new keyset
Post by: KHAANNN on Wed, 25 November 2015, 23:43:26
I remember sharing the exact tip earlier, don't remember the name currently, but the stony-gray oval-ish top at the slowest setting works wonders, it's slow and the temps don't melt the keycap