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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: ironcoder on Tue, 17 November 2009, 11:24:22

Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Tue, 17 November 2009, 11:24:22: Now that everybody's agreed on what the best OS is, time to move on...

I need to replace an aging laptop that is slowly becoming a black hole for money. The specs on that one were 2.2GHz Celeron, 512M RAM, 40G HD.

I've been out of the market so long I have no idea which of the bewildering array of choices to choose from.

I want a small screen, a decent keyboard, as much horsepower as possible given the price range (<= 500 bucks) and a good screen for web and general use (no gaming).

I would like 2G of RAM. If it doesn't come stock it should be upgradeable at least.

Any ideas guys? Thank you.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 17 November 2009, 11:25:31: Build one with a VIA nano?
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Tue, 17 November 2009, 11:33:03: Maybe. What's a VIA nano?
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 17 November 2009, 11:34:18: http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/nano/ (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/processors/nano/)
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Tue, 17 November 2009, 11:39:14: Oh thanks. That's probably out of the question over here. I'll be lucky to be able to buy most stuff you'll suggest without somebody in America to ship it over here. I need to find something ready to go. I can't even find DVI extension cables over here.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: AndrewZorn on Tue, 17 November 2009, 12:24:42: small screen?

do you want a SFF computer or a laptop/netbook?
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Tue, 17 November 2009, 14:06:41: I really don't even know what to call what I'm looking for. I have a phone with wifi and the screen is great but isn't big enough for prolonged browsing. I guess I'm looking for the smallest form factor with a normalish sized keyboard and enough CPU to do some fairly intensive processing.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: AndrewZorn on Tue, 17 November 2009, 14:11:55: right, but a tiny desktop computer (what most people would call a small form factor computer) or a small laptop ('netbook' 'eeepc' 'aspire one')
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 17 November 2009, 14:12:54: Sounds more like a net-top than a netbook to me.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Tue, 17 November 2009, 14:25:06: @Andrew sorry I meant in a portable format rather than desktop. Although I'm not sure why I'm saying that...I thought it had to be portable to be small but in fact maybe some other format would also work. I would have to see it.

@Tim what are examples of the net tops and netbooks? I'm so far behind on this stuff I don't know what the categories are or what kinds of PCs belong in each. It seems like you or ricercar had an incredible selection of small computers. If I could find the post with those pics I might be able to give you a better idea of what I'm going for.

Again I'm really looking for the smallest portable with a usable keyboard (two handed rather than thumbs) because I think the stuff like the Nokia 900 is just not powerful enough in the CPU department yet. Not sure about what a minimum screen size should be, I don't have any examples to look at in person.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 17 November 2009, 14:31:59: Sounds like you need more ARM in your life...
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Tue, 17 November 2009, 14:41:12: Yeah I have an ARM 11 so I've paid my dues ;)
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 18 November 2009, 00:40:50: Quote from: ironcoder;133247
Now that everybody's agreed on what the best OS is, time to move on...

I need to replace an aging laptop that is slowly becoming a black hole for money. The specs on that one were 2.2GHz Celeron, 512M RAM, 40G HD.

I've been out of the market so long I have no idea which of the bewildering array of choices to choose from.

I want a small screen, a decent keyboard, as much horsepower as possible given the price range (<= 500 bucks) and a good screen for web and general use (no gaming).

I would like 2G of RAM. If it doesn't come stock it should be upgradeable at least.

Any ideas guys? Thank you.

touchsmarts tx2500z, or that series 2510us, ect are the best bang for the buck right now, not the tx2's as they raped the multitouch screen by taking out the wacom. They work the best with windows 7.
http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-TX2500Z-RM-70-3GB-250GB-12-1-TOUCHSCREEN-TABLET-PC_W0QQitemZ370292397151QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item563725945f (http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-TX2500Z-RM-70-3GB-250GB-12-1-TOUCHSCREEN-TABLET-PC_W0QQitemZ370292397151QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item563725945f)

Try to find one with a processor better than an rm-70 though, they were made with up to 2.4ghz, and maybe one that's not refurbed, although I've had good luck with mine which I bought which is a 2.2 ghz(zm-82) one that was refurbed, no problems in several months of constant use now.

They're the smallest tabletpc to have a dedicated ati graphics card in them, and really only 1 of 2. The c-142xl is huge. Possibly one of the smallest newer laptops to as well. They're also super low priced, less than most equivalent normal non tablet/touchscreen laptops, and they're only slightly larger than netbook size, and slightly more priced, but like 5-10 times more powerful than most netbooks.

Here's a good deal on a 2.2ghz tx2z if you don't really care about the wacom tablet:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HP-TX2Z-320GB-12-TABLET-Laptop-win-7-Multi-Touch_W0QQitemZ330376555382QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item4cebfa2b76 (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HP-TX2Z-320GB-12-TABLET-Laptop-win-7-Multi-Touch_W0QQitemZ330376555382QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item4cebfa2b76)

Here's a used one like mine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-TX2500Z-2-2-2GHz-3GB-250GB-HDD-Tablet-Notebook_W0QQitemZ260508613554QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item3ca785fbb2
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: iMav on Wed, 18 November 2009, 01:22:45: Woot had a great deal on netbooks the other day. $279 for a 11.6" Gateway netbook (dual-core 64-bit Athlon CPU, 2GB ram, 250GB hdd, 6-cell battery)

maybe keep your eye out for another deal like that.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Wed, 18 November 2009, 04:20:45: Thanks Chimera I'm checking your links now. Not that I will ever buy from ebay itself again!

Thanks iMav.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: chimera15 on Wed, 18 November 2009, 09:51:01: Quote from: ironcoder;133549
Thanks Chimera I'm checking your links now. Not that I will ever buy from ebay itself again!

Thanks iMav.

Were you the one that had problems with shipping cause you're in England?

Well here's hp's tx2 if you don't care about the wacom stylus:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Display+%28diagonal%29&v1=12.0%26quot%3B+-+14.9%26quot%3B&series_name=tx2z_series&jumpid=in_R329_prodexp/hhoslp/psg/notebooks/12.0%22_-_14.9%22/tx2z_series (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Display+%28diagonal%29&v1=12.0%26quot%3B+-+14.9%26quot%3B&series_name=tx2z_series&jumpid=in_R329_prodexp/hhoslp/psg/notebooks/12.0%22_-_14.9%22/tx2z_series)

Those at least have win7 already installed on them, so you don't have to go through the pain of getting all the drivers right and everything. For just under 1k, you can get a zm-87 2.4ghz processor, which isn't too bad. The quick ship model looks like a fairly good deal too with no wait time, a 2.3ghz processor and 4 gigs of ram.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: J888www on Wed, 18 November 2009, 19:10:39: There are many factors to consider before your final choice. I suggest you research from Notebookreviews (http://www.notebookreview.com/), Notebookcheck (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Notebook-Laptop-Reviews-and-News.48.0.html) etc etc.
I didn't check before I purchased a Laptop and due to bad Manufacturer's support, I now have a piece of junk. The defective GPU 8400M GS Die from a Dell product has now caused my £875 dream toy to become a nightmare. All Dell did was to replace the Mobo with the same same defective batch of Mobos until the Year Warranty expires. Solution (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=268081) but then again you really shouldn't need to do mods for a £875 laptop after only just one Year of usage, it eventually died after another six Months. My anger was that Dell had known from the beginning that it was a faulty product but still pushed this FAULTY product to us Consumers.
My only advice is NOT to buy a DELL product and good luck on your final decision.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 18 November 2009, 19:49:47: Ooh it's got a trackpoint!
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 19 November 2009, 10:02:59: Quote from: ripster;133922
Those little HPs look nice but 12" is a bit big for portability.

I'm still holding out for a multitouch in this form factor with a nicer screen. Very handy little bugger and the touchscreen makes sense when they are this small.

Toshiba Lifebook P1510D
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5800&stc=1&d=1258593465)

Yeah I dislike the widescreen when they're that small. I prefered the c110 in that pentium m generation, or a motion slate. The problem is the trend these days is to use the atom processor when they get that small, which severely slows them down, and makes them about as powerful as a pentium M, so why not just buy one of those smaller pentium m's used for half the price of a netbook?

The tx's are great cause they're as powerful as a full sized laptop, have a dedicated graphics card that even most normal sized laptops might not have, but still small enough to get away with throwing them in a small laptop bag, and have a comfortable using experience as the screen is still reasonably sized for being a widescreen.

There was a umpc coming out with multitouch, and I think an acer netbook, but not sure they're in production yet. I think the oqo 2+ went to full touch screen, and the normal 2 still uses a wacom digitizer, so you can decide which one you prefer of those two at least. lol

http://www.slashgear.com/?s=asus+eee+pc+t91mt (http://www.slashgear.com/?s=asus+eee+pc+t91mt)

$549 up for preorder as of the 2nd of november.

I'd still be curious what the benchmarks are vrs the tx. I think if size wasn't of absolute importance I'd still go with an ebay tx2500z for around the same price if I could also tolerate ebay. Ah it's got a 1.33 atom, would definitely take a tx over that.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 19 November 2009, 15:07:25: Thanks guys. J888 that's very helpful, I need to get up to speed and read some reviews.

I checked around and ASUS and MSI units are the ones most readily available here. Some of them even have LED screens which I hear are way better than LCDs. I'll look over everything you guys mentioned. Thanks alot for all the suggestions and links.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: AndrewZorn on Thu, 19 November 2009, 16:02:33: LED screens, or converted to LED backlighting? if its the latter, i wouldnt call it "way better"
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 19 November 2009, 16:05:28: I like the LED backlighting, because the brightness is much more even across the screen, but other than that, it doesn't provide much benefit (not that it isn't a big plus). Other than that, it allows manufacturers to make thinner screens.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ironcoder on Sat, 21 November 2009, 17:28:22: I don't know, guys. I'll have to check.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: timw4mail on Sat, 21 November 2009, 17:29:43: Quote from: itlnstln;134208
I like the LED backlighting, because the brightness is much more even across the screen, but other than that, it doesn't provide much benefit (not that it isn't a big plus). Other than that, it allows manufacturers to make thinner screens.

It gets rid of the worst point of failure in most (well-treated) LCD screens: the backlight.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Sat, 28 November 2009, 03:46:03: I just got a dell latitude 2100 from the refurb small business/edu website for a cool $250. Couldn't be happier. It might not be what you're looking for, but damn... With the screen brightness down and a dark color scheme going (almost all black with white/green text), I can run OneNote for 9, almost 10 hours straight off the battery no problem. It gets banged up everyday, I just toss it in the backpack, throw the bag on the floor... the thing is virtually indestructible. The rubberized outer case has protected it from lots of falls, the thing sticks to everything. I could go on. If you're concerned about battery life/durability/price, give it a go. It's the best netbook I've laid my hands on. it also has a touchscreen option for a few bucks more.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 28 November 2009, 07:52:45: How old is that Latitude?
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: PRISONER 24601 on Mon, 30 November 2009, 14:51:39: it's new but i bought it refurbished
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 30 November 2009, 15:05:28: Quote from: timw4mail;135053
It gets rid of the worst point of failure in most (well-treated) LCD screens: the backlight.

Any one here replace a LCD backlight? With all the vanity gear available now, I'm tempted to upgrade a failing display backlight with a cold cathode from a modder's site.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 01 December 2009, 06:58:07: Quote from: ricercar;137516
Any one here replace a LCD backlight? With all the vanity gear available now, I'm tempted to upgrade a failing display backlight with a cold cathode from a modder's site.

I've done it before, on many different laptops, but it can be a real hit or miss depending on the laptop and lcd. Or is it for a stand alone lcd monitor? Those are typically a lot easier. They often just slide out and back in. Laptops you usually have to take the metal frame off and take the entire screen out to get to the backlight.

You really risk the lcd if you try it though, especially if it's a laptop. If it's a rare lcd and a laptop it can be really difficult and more than the worth of the laptop to get a replacement, so if the problem is at all tolerable you should just bear with it.

Are the bulbs compatible with the inverter or would they have a separate power supply? That can be really hit and miss also.

If it's a laptop, it's a 99% certainty that dust will get into the screen in some amount if you don't have a clean room.
Title: Which is the best small form factor PC?
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 03 December 2009, 00:53:58: Quote from: chimera15;137703
{loads of useful advice}

Thank you very much.