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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: HungryPillow on Tue, 17 November 2009, 19:55:30
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I've been a member for this forum for only a couple days and I'm already addicted :) There are soooo many keyboards that I want to try but the Realforce Topre's sound best suited for me. I just had a quick question before taking the plunge...
Besides the obvious full size keyboard vs. tenkeyless, are there any other major differences between these two models? I know the 87U has blue LED lights for the Caps/Ctrl key and is a limited edition model, but are the inherent designs/switches the same for both models? Does the 103UB come with the purple WASD and red ESC keys?
I'm just trying to decide if I should wait for the 87Us to come back in stock or just get the 103UB. I'm OK with/without the numpad on the keyboard, although I do think without looks a bit more sleek/clean :)
Thanks for this wonderful forum/resource by the way, hopefully this won't be my first and last keyboard...
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hopefully this won't be my first and last keyboard...
:D heh heh, don't worry... if you stick around here, you'll end up with more keyboards than you expected...
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If you do get the 103UB please take some good pictures of it. I would much prefer to use user submited pictures over the stock pictures you can get on EliteKeyboards.
Other than the size of the keyboard there should be no differences. But I don't have one so can't tell you with absolute conviction that they are the same :) As ripster noted we have had one member that thought the 103 felt a little different. I feel the HHKB and the 87U fell different but the difference is so subtle I really don't think it matters I bet it is the same with the 103.
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Crap... I was hoping for "Yes the 103 is 293849237239 times better than the 87U" or "you're an absolute retard if you buy the 103 over the 87U!" :D
This doesn't make my decision any easier. I guess I just need to figure out if LEDs, a few blue/red keys, and slightly better looks is worth waiting a few weeks for.
On the 87U you can switch the Caps and CTRL around by using the dipswitches right? Is this the same on the 103 or does that have the standard setup?
I should have found this site earlier. I like to try different keyboards but didn't know there was much outside the typical Logitech/Microsoft offerings. I've got a Logitech diNovo Edge, Logitech LED, and Microsoft Natural 4000... which probably could have got me a Cherry Filco and the Realforce :(
Lesson learned. At least I'm sure this will be a great upgrade :)
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how often do you use the numpad? Maybe that should be a deciding factor.
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There has been at least one person who has claimed that the 87 is better built than the 103.
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how often do you use the numpad? Maybe that should be a deciding factor.
That seems to be the only difference. If you really don't like using the numpad function on most laptops, you may want to go with the 103 and vice versa.
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Crap... I was hoping for "Yes the 103 is 293849237239 times better than the 87U" or "you're an absolute retard if you buy the 103 over the 87U!" :D
I think most of us try not to do that we try to give you the information you need to make the decision yourself because we are all different and want different things.
This doesn't make my decision any easier. I guess I just need to figure out if LEDs, a few blue/red keys, and slightly better looks is worth waiting a few weeks for.
Very true we tend to encourage everyone to get at least one keyboard of each switch :) But at the end of the process you will know what you like and what you don't like. Oh and your wallet will be thiner :) But it really is the only way to know for sure what keyboard is best suited for you. And generally you can sell what you don't like here because you are not the only one going through the process. Or you can keep them like quite a few of us have done. Or you and collect more of them again like quite a few of us have done (just take a look at our sigs)
On the 87U you can switch the Caps and CTRL around by using the dipswitches right? Is this the same on the 103 or does that have the standard setup?
According to the Topre wiki model reference (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre#Realforce+Model+Reference) the 103UB does not have a dip switch so you can't change the Caps lock and CTRL keys around in hardware like the 87U but it is very easy to do in software.
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If you do get the 103UB please take some good pictures of it. I would much prefer to use user submited pictures over the stock pictures you can get on EliteKeyboards.
Other than the size of the keyboard there should be no differences. But I don't have one so can't tell you with absolute conviction that they are the same :) As ripster noted we have had one member that thought the 103 felt a little different. I feel the HHKB and the 87U fell different but the difference is so subtle I really don't think it matters I bet it is the same with the 103.
Better pics posted for the 103UB:)
I've typed on them side by side before. Build quality and materials are the same. If there is a difference in feel and sound then it is due to the difference in natural resonance a hunk of keyboard the size of an 87U versus a 103U makes when you type. Anything else is probably in your mind, however, I haven't measured the weight of each individual switch on the 103 for comparison yet...
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Thanks for all the feedback guys :)
Trust me I have every intention to try all the different switches, I just don't know how long I will survive once the fiancee finds out :P
I think I've decided to wait for the 87U as I really prefer how it looks over the 103. Perhaps I will add a Filco blue or brown to the order... or better yet, both! :D
I think with a Topre, Cherry Blue, and Cherry Brown, I won't be tempted to try anymore keyboards for a long while :)
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Topres and Cherry Browns are quite similar. In addition, as far as I can see, just about everyone around here who has tried both prefer the Topre. At least the Blue Cherrys are quite different and fun to type on.
If you want to try a good few switches - Instead of another brown Cherry board, get one of these. (http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=130345560832&Category=33963&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2#ht_1235wt_941)
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Quiet, 45g switches with subtle tactility etc etc.
Except that by just about every account I've read, the Realforce is a better keyboard than the Filco with brown Cherrys.
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Quiet, 45g switches with subtle tactility etc etc.
Except that by just about every account I've read, the Realforce is a better keyboard than the Filco with brown Cherrys.
Yep I agree with this. I much prefer the Topre over a Cherry brown. After typing on the Topre the browns just seem so plain and uninteresting. That does not mean I don't like the browns I just think they are OK verses Great. But for those that have not tried or used a Topre for a while the browns are a nice choice.
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I mean, there might be a case to be made if you weren't also thinking of getting a Blue Cherry board which is a completely different typing experience to the Topres/Browns. You're much better off either saving your money or trying a completely different switch like the Buckling Springs.
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Hmm that's a good point. I'll just start with the Topre and when/if I get bored I will look for the next one to try (isn't that how it all starts?) :)
I know I'll probably be condemned for this here but to me form is almost as important as function, so I don't think there's any way I'd consider trying a Model M. Looks are very subjective but all those old school looking keyboards just don't do it for me. That's kind of why I narrowed it down to the Filcos and Realforce... love the sleek black look :)
I'll admit I have not really looked into buckling spring switches so that might be an interesting thing to do in the mean time.
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maybe what we *really* need is some kind of layaway/subscription plan...
$60/mo for a stream of keyboards delivered direct 2 U!
;D
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I know what you mean about the "old school" look of the old Model M keyboards... I'm not a great fan of the taupe, beige, pale gray look, which is why you should make a beeline for the M13 in black -- it's the only decent looking M (IMHO) and although rare they're generally no more expensive than the puke colored M's. Granted, the thing is still a good few inches deeper and wider than it need be, but in black you hardly notice because it's the color of stealth!
Reminds me... has anyone ever taken a Realforce keyboard apart to see if there are actually springs in the mechanism and we're not all being taken for a ride?!
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Reminds me... has anyone ever taken a Realforce keyboard apart to see if there are actually springs in the mechanism and we're not all being taken for a ride?!
Well lets see.....
On the Topre/Realforce wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre) you have all the details you should need about how the switch works.
Then you have the HHKB Pro Exposed (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6902)
And Realforce 87U Opened Up (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5697)
Plus a few more if you look in the keyboard review section or the mods section.
EDIT: look for the ones by myself and ripster we are the only ones crazy enough to take them apart :)
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they're generally no more expensive than the puke colored M's.
You mean the Industrials?
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4707&d=1253710840)
I think they're as nice as the black ones. Wish the mini versions were more common though...
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puke-colored -- I was thinking more the slightly age-yellowed (or perhaps nicotine-yellowed) and grubby regular M's, but the industrials are a pretty close approximation. The industrials also remind me why I dislike most of the Unicomps -- I just can't dig the keys being distinctly different colors to the case, especially the gray on black of the endurapro or customizer. Give me all black or all white any day.
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Piece of trivia. This place used to be populated by Writers and Programmers
Then I came along and douched it up for everyone.
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Well, I was all set on waiting till December to order the 87U from elitekeyboards, but I actually found a website that has the 87U in stock. Actually feel kinda bad since Brian was so nice in the emails and I was pretty much set on buying from him... :(
Anyways, I'm just waiting for confirmation of pricing and stock tomorrow before I place the order. The website is from Taiwan and they take Paypal so we'll see how it goes. They don't speak English so I actually had to call them up and ask, but they sounded pretty professional.
Just hope it's a legit and it goes smoothly. It's probably better I wait for the whole deal to complete before posting a link to the site. Don't want other people to get ripped off just in case... I can be the guinea pig :)
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There's also a black 86UK on eBay right now. BIN for $299.
That means a $55 premium over the old EliteKeyboards price but hey, the seller has been testing the keyboard for 4 months.
He's also selling a white HHKB Pro 2 but it's been tested only for a couple weeks, so there's a minimal $35 surcharge.
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The one thing about buying from Taiwan is that you'll have one hell of a time if the package gets lost or you have problems with the keyboard. I'd wait and spend the extra money on Brian because of the accountability.
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Well, I was all set on waiting till December to order the 87U from elitekeyboards, but I actually found a website that has the 87U in stock. Actually feel kinda bad since Brian was so nice in the emails and I was pretty much set on buying from him... :(
Anyways, I'm just waiting for confirmation of pricing and stock tomorrow before I place the order. The website is from Taiwan and they take Paypal so we'll see how it goes. They don't speak English so I actually had to call them up and ask, but they sounded pretty professional.
Just hope it's a legit and it goes smoothly. It's probably better I wait for the whole deal to complete before posting a link to the site. Don't want other people to get ripped off just in case... I can be the guinea pig :)
Yea you can find them all over Asia if you look. But the kicker is you are going to spend ~$50 to ship it here and I bet the seller will charge you the paypal fee as well. I bought mine from Japan before you could get them here and paid around $350 to get it. Seeing that they are still in stock in Asia I bet what is holding Brian up is they will come with his normal shipment out of Japan.
So yes you can get them all over the place if you are willing to pay the premium to get it faster. Or you can wait and save a little.
EDIT: Forgot to add make sure you check on the currency conversion as well. That will drive it up some as well and paypal will charge you for that as well.
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Oops, forgot to mention I'm currently in Singapore, so Taiwan is actually closer :)
The price they are selling for comes out to about US$250, so it's not too bad. I'll wait and see how it goes．．． if I get any sort of negative vibe from them then I’ll wait for Brian for sure．
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Why when you can get them closer to home at a good price. How hard is it for you to get stuff from Japan? 87U's are easy to find in Japan and quite a few of the vendors will ship to Singapore. I bet you could get it from diatec (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=598) as well (EliteKeyboards is a Diatec rep).
You can also find them in Korea as well just be careful what you order from Korea because the vendors there also carry the 87UBK55 which has uniform 55g keys you may not like that one but then again you may like it.
But no matter how you end up actually getting your new 87U we would love to here from you on how you like it both at first and a month or so later. You really have to use the Topre for a while before you really start to appreciate it.
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Why when you can get them closer to home at a good price. How hard is it for you to get stuff from Japan? 87U's are easy to find in Japan and quite a few of the vendors will ship to Singapore. I bet you could get it from diatec (http://www.diatec.co.jp/shop/det.php?prod_c=598) as well (EliteKeyboards is a Diatec rep).
You can also find them in Korea as well just be careful what you order from Korea because the vendors there also carry the 87UBK55 which has uniform 55g keys you may not like that one but then again you may like it.
But no matter how you end up actually getting your new 87U we would love to here from you on how you like it both at first and a month or so later. You really have to use the Topre for a while before you really start to appreciate it.
Well, I can speak Chinese but I can't speak Japanese, so I just assumed Japan would be much harder to get lol
I've checked benippon's site before and they were asking over US$300 and were out of stock. Same with geekstuff4u. That price on the diatec site is pretty similar to what the Taiwan place is selling for, so I figured I'm paying about market rate.
The Korean sites are well... Korean :P I understand even less Korean than Japanese and from what I've read here most sites only take Korean credit cards.
Anyways, Taiwan is actually closer to Singapore than Japan... and I will definitely keep everyone here updated on the progress and my thoughts when I receive it :)
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Some good news (I hope). Placed my order for the 87U and a Filco armrest from that website. Had to pay a credit card fee so the total with shipping came out to about US$310. Hopefully I get everything safely and will update you all when it arrives. Now the wait begins! :)
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The Industrial is a tough color to describe but I would put it in the Olive/Army Green/Grey range. Grey/gray is a tough color to pin down sometimes.
To me, it looks more like a brown khaki colour.
(http://www.dansdata.com/images/clicky2/industrial1280.jpg)
I just can't dig the keys being distinctly different colors to the case, especially the gray on black of the endurapro or customizer. Give me all black or all white any day.
They used to have all black keyboards, but there were issues with keywear. Rumors were that Welly threatened to ditch all his Unicomp stock unless they changed to sparkling grey...
(http://members.arstechnica.com/x/hellion_prime/DSCF1184-1.jpg)
Of course you could always buy the Classic -
(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2005/13H6705/13H6705-001.jpg)
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:D heh heh, don't worry... if you stick around here, you'll end up with A LOT more keyboards than you expected, and a lighter wallet
There, I fixed that to more accurately reflect the damage this place does to your financial standing and introducing you to a brand new form of OCD.
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Some good news (I hope). Placed my order for the 87U and a Filco armrest from that website. Had to pay a credit card fee so the total with shipping came out to about US$310. Hopefully I get everything safely and will update you all when it arrives. Now the wait begins! :)
Congrats on finding one. The $310 price seems about right when you take into account all the fees involved in getting a keyboard from another country. Looking forward to your update.
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Thanks! Don't forget the price includes a Filco armrest. The price breakdown was something like this:
87U keyboard ~$250
Filco armrest ~ $35
Credit card fee ~ $12
Shipping (to Singapore) ~ $13
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Even better. That is actually a good price. Back when I purchased my 87U from Japan (before EliteKeyboards opened) I did the same thing. Bought the 87U and 2 of the wrist rests but my shipping was considerably more than yours.
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If i could get my hands on either of these keyboards at the same price point, which should i get ?
I do use the numpad numbered keys. But from my understanding the 87U also has a virtual numpad hm...
87U has a DIP switch and the 103U-UW doesn't. But really does it matter ?
Anyway any opinions :/
Topre realforce 87UB SE1700 variable force black
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/mitsume/TopreRealforceSE170087u21.jpg)
VS
Topre realforce 103U-UW SE1200 variable force white
(http://www.mrinterface.com/keyboardsims/realforce103uuw/img/front.jpg)
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obviously the 87U, better resale value
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obviously the 87U, better resale value
I know but, the problem is what is better for actual usage for me :/ thats my dilemma.
Oh well i'll ponder on it some more :faint:
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87U makes win+0/9/8/7 easier... I am not kidding, I actually use these hotkeys