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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 09 December 2015, 14:29:48

Title: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 09 December 2015, 14:29:48
My v60 spacebar was chattering like crazy (Gateron switches), so after firmware updates failed to solve the problem the company sent me 17 (yes 17) replacement switches to replace the defective switch.  This was my first time desoldering and soldering a switch and it went without a hitch (almost).

There was a hidded screw under the keycap which I did not see and in trying to separate the board from the case I broke the mini usb port from the board like a space cadet.  I included a pic which is worthless, but you can see the anchor prongs are broken.  Are the any special precedures or worries or considerations I need  to consider, or is this going to be cake?  The part is dirt cheap.  I'm not sure if it was originally soldered in.  Oh yeah, it's soldered in.  The old solder has to be cleaned off

Edit: If anybody needs a replacement switch I'd be happy to send it to them.  I have more than I'll ever need.   
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 09 December 2015, 14:50:55
It's gonna be cake with a small tip, some flux and eventually a magnifying glass.
Title: Q
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 09 December 2015, 21:40:12
Oh yeah, I can do this.  If I can disassemble, clean, adjust, and regulate a 1940's vintage watch then I can solder a few meager electronic pieces.

Question 1-  Is the flux necessary?  This is obviously a high tension area and we want the soldered surfaces to hold under pressure.  This is it's purpose?

Question 2-  Am I better using a solder pump or a solder wick to clean the leftover solder from the usb mini port that broke off?   There are no more prongs or anchors to heat, so I am guessing the wick?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: ika on Wed, 09 December 2015, 22:00:21
Flux burns off when you apply heat and is there to clean the metal contact areas so that the solder sticks. Without it, the solder can just bead up around the metal and you'll never get a good solder joint.

Wick vs pump - whatever you prefer. Pumps are easier to use and are better for large parts but wicks tend to be cleaner. Wicks are also consumable, i.e. you'll have to buy more if you do enough soldering. A pump would probably be better in your case.
Title: Re: Q
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 10 December 2015, 03:44:32
Oh yeah, I can do this.  If I can disassemble, clean, adjust, and regulate a 1940's vintage watch then I can solder a few meager electronic pieces.
Definetely.

Question 1-  Is the flux necessary?  This is obviously a high tension area and we want the soldered surfaces to hold under pressure.  This is it's purpose?

ika's considerations are valid but I believe you can get a good result even without it, although, being flux extremely cheap (less than 10 USD for 100 gr) you might want to get some.


Question 2-  Am I better using a solder pump or a solder wick to clean the leftover solder from the usb mini port that broke off?   There are no more prongs or anchors to heat, so I am guessing the wick?
Are you reusing the same damaged USB port? If so, reconsider, you'd get better results with a new one.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sat, 12 December 2015, 20:11:17
I have purchased wick as well as the pump.  In this case I think the wick will remove the remaining solder from the board better than the pump.  The pump seems to work well for large beads of solder.  The leads or tracers are not damaged at all.  I purchased new mini-usb ports but they are not what I needed.  For some reason the contact pins are raised from the pcb- they do not make contact.  This is the wrong style, but they can be modified.  I did also order one which I know to be correct, but that will not arrive until the end of next week and I am impatient.

The old one though damaged is still intact and I will probably just use that one.  I ordered expediated shipping on all these parts so I could do this today and wasted a lot of dough on shipping- I don't wanna wait up to another week.  If there is any indication of instability I will redo the job when the correct one comes in.  Yes I know this is all less than ideal, but it's what I wanna do. Or I could just secure it well enough where it will be easy to remove and install a new port.  I really wanna use my favorite keyboard. 

Yes I did purchase flux.  This is in the form of an alcohol based pen and should be slightly less messy than the flux that looks like Vaseline.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 13 December 2015, 00:23:08
I realize that is was foolish to attempt to re-solder a damaged mini-usb port back to the pcb, but I was itching to use my favorite keyboard.  The wick by the way is far superior to the solder pump imho.  It was just not possible to lineup the 5 pins and keep the port flat on the pcb.  After 3 or 4 attempts I gave up.

When I held the pins against the visible contacts on the pcb, some of the keyboard commands would work.  After cleaning off the old solder several times I hope I did not damage the pcb.   There seem to be tracers running between the 4 anchor feet of the mini pcb port.  Here is an image.  Soldering is very fun, but I'm learning as I'm going along.  I will wait for the proper part to arrive next week sometime and in the unlikely event that it does not function I will be forced to buy another board.  Oh well.  I used the coolest setting of the iron that would allow the melting of the solder.  What is your opinion of the condition of the board?  I have no problem replacing the board if need be because I like it that much.  But this should really be an easy fix (unless I made a super stupid novice mistake).

[attach=1]


Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Sun, 13 December 2015, 03:10:11
What is your opinion of the condition of the board?
I think the only parts which are really damaged are the USB port pads, but before you throw the board away, try cleaning it up.
Gently scrape the yellowish crust off the board with a flat screwdriver, and by gently I mean as gently as if you were to scrape your eyelids.
If the large pads are unrecoverable, you could just try glueing that side of the USB port on the board.
Also, you'll probably have to resolder the two switches at the sides of the port.
Post a picture of the board when you're done.
And good luck.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 13 December 2015, 11:54:41
The switches are pretty easy to solder, so that's not an issue.  This should have been fairly easy, but I started off with a broken and distorted (although still functional) port and should have simply waited for the new part to come in.  Excuse my ignorance, but I'm educated in the medical field and learn tech as I go along. 

Do the port pads simply give a place to solder the feet to the pcb?   Is the  only place that is really acting as a conduit the 5 pcb pins on the board?  If you look between the usb port pads it appears their are connections running between them in the pcb.  I circled them.  This is puzzling to me.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: absyrd on Sun, 13 December 2015, 12:13:30
Considering your username + thread title I was hoping to see blood/death.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 13 December 2015, 12:26:31
Haha, I bet the Poker 3 is sturdy enough to commit homicide.   This v60 would probably break.  No sense in ruining a perfectly good board.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Sun, 13 December 2015, 13:13:47
I'm educated in the medical field
Me too, but you would concur that this hobby is dreadfully addicting.

Do the port pads simply give a place to solder the feet to the pcb?
Yes, they conduct no electricity, they are there to solder the port firmly on the board.

Is the  only place that is really acting as a conduit the 5 pcb pins on the board?
Correct.

If you look between the usb port pads it appears their are connections running between them in the pcb.  I circled them.  This is puzzling to me.
Those white lines are printed, they are not nets.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 13 December 2015, 13:34:46
Mr. Talking Tree, you've been very helpful. Thanks  :thumb: This still looks like a very easy fix.  One more thing is that I have seen videos of peoples soldering the 5 pins to  the board.  I was under the impression that the pins simply lay against the leads.  Is that necessary?  That looks freaking hard soldering those pins so close together.  That may take some practice on my part. 

Actually, one more question.  Since you are not soldering through the pcb like you do a switch and the port simply lays on top, how to you keep the port in exactly the spot you want it as you are soldering it without it moving around?  I'm sure there's an elementary answer.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Sun, 13 December 2015, 13:39:48
Mr. Talking Tree, you've been very helpful. Thanks  :thumb:
My pleasure.

One more thing is that I have seen videos of peoples soldering the 5 pins to  the board.  I was under the impression that the pins simply lay against the leads.  Is that necessary? 
Yes, that's necessary because without soldering you might risk random signal loss.
Flux will do the magic. Just rub some on the pads, align the port on the pads, rub some more flux and then solder.

This video will explain it better.
 (https://vimeo.com/51312926)
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 13 December 2015, 13:50:38
This gentleman is quite skillful.  I've seen some videos of people making an absolute disaster of a mess. Not sure that wthout practice I could be as neat and fast as this guy.  I was also wondering how you keep the port aligned with the pins as you are attempting to solder.  It looks like he starts off with a small amount of solder on the board and when this melts to one of the feet it acts as an anchor and the port stays put.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Sun, 13 December 2015, 13:55:55
I was also wondering how you keep the port aligned with the pins as you are attempting to solder.
In your case, you should simply solder the port to two opposite large pads, so the port won't move and the pins will stay aligned.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 13 December 2015, 16:28:38
Right, I see what you are saying.  However if you hold the solder with one hand and the iron with the other the port can move as  you are trying to keep it in place.  In watchmaking we have this cool stuff called rodico that has a gazillion and one uses, one of them is strapping something in place temporarily so it does not move anywhere while you are working on it.  It's sort of like silly putty or clay.  I wouldn't attempt to use it here but made me think of it. 

It's just a matter of learning technique and since the amount of times I have soldered I can count on one hand I am not very schooled yet.  I'm sure it will be easier with a new port.  Thanks for all the tips.

In the video it looked like he started with a bit of solder right on the pad and when he heated that up that immediately cooled and anchored it into place.  I could try that.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Sun, 13 December 2015, 16:46:17
However if you hold the solder with one hand and the iron with the other the port can move as  you are trying to keep it in place.
In the video it looked like he started with a bit of solder right on the pad and when he heated that up that immediately cooled and anchored it into place.  I could try that.
There, you got yourself your answer. Put solder on one large pad alone, then melt it with your iron while you align the port with tweezers.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 13 December 2015, 18:13:53
I have one more question my friend.  I don't expect you to answer every question I have as it's my responsibility to do research, but my 60/40 solder has a diameter of 1mm.  Looking at these connectors it may be too wide?  This 1mm seems to be the most standard size, and there is no one place where there is a clear-cut question and answer, so I thought I'd ask you or anybody else who wants to chime in.  Especially if it beads as it melts it's much wider.  Should I be looking for 0.5mm solder for replacing a usb port?

Edit: well I purchased 0.3 and 0.5mm solder and will experiment to find the best technique.  I make the stupid mistake of trying to solder the twisted port back to the board.  That won't happen again. 
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Mon, 14 December 2015, 04:38:55
I have one more question my friend.  I don't expect you to answer every question I have as it's my responsibility to do research, but my 60/40 solder has a diameter of 1mm.  Looking at these connectors it may be too wide?  This 1mm seems to be the most standard size, and there is no one place where there is a clear-cut question and answer, so I thought I'd ask you or anybody else who wants to chime in.  Especially if it beads as it melts it's much wider.  Should I be looking for 0.5mm solder for replacing a usb port?

Edit: well I purchased 0.3 and 0.5mm solder and will experiment to find the best technique.  I make the stupid mistake of trying to solder the twisted port back to the board.  That won't happen again.
I only used 1mm solder so far so I can't tell the difference, although 1mm with flux is thin enough for the purpose.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Mon, 14 December 2015, 23:33:32
I see no reason not to try and use the thinner solder.  I'm sure the 0.5 mm solder will do just fine, but purchased the 0.3mm just in case. They mark it as something like 0.012" diameter solder.  My technique is still not as good as the gentleman in the video and will probably never be since I do this so infrequently.  I just didn't want a big blob of solder running across all the connectors, but I'm confident I can do this without a hitch.

I'm sure the 1mm is perfect for the solder pads, but for the connectors I want the thinner diameter stuff.  I have the flux in the Sharpie pen style with the chisel tip.  It seems pretty easy to control and does not leave a big waste of thick waxy resin to work around.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 15 December 2015, 02:57:23
I just didn't want a big blob of solder running across all the connectors.
Flux should avoid that, but in any case you could try putting something between a pad and another. I use the tip of a neon tester (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Phasenpruefer_01-l_KMJ.jpg) which doesn't get soldered.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 13:19:53
Success!  The port was soldered to the board (with great difficulty).  This should be very easy, but for some reason these tips corrode almost instantaneously and then don't get hot.  I tried cleaning/fluxing/tinning them with very little effect.  Maybe these tips are really made for one time use.

So the board works except for the spacebar switch that I replaced and I had the same problem.  The tip would not get hot so I turned up the heat on the soldering iron and used the unused portion of the tip farther back.  I hope the pcb is not damaged after all this.  I can chalk some of this up to inexperience, but I spent many hours reading and watching videos before attempting this procedure and was sure I could do this competently.  I think these tips are absolute sh*#, although the iron is probably satisfactory enough.  I certainly could have gotten away with less than 60 watts.  Next time I will buy separate top quality tips made of a better alloy.

I don't know enough about how the switch meets the connections on the pcb is this damaged and can it be salvaged?  It's the only switch not working.  You are looking looking at the switch side of the pcb which is probably difficult to damage unless there is at least a little negligence involved.  I only turned up the soldering iron because it would not melt the solder.  I rarely skimp on tools and prefer better quality, but I found it hard to justify spending more in tools than the board was worth. [attachimg=1]

Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 16 December 2015, 13:51:51
That's unrecoverable for sure, but being it a single switch, you can follow the net to the adjacent switch and hardwire both connection to it. It will work.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 16 December 2015, 14:22:03
you sure one couldn't clean that up? is that just plastic or silicone from the middle of the PCB sandwich?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 16 December 2015, 14:27:50
you sure one couldn't clean that up? is that just plastic or silicone from the middle of the PCB sandwich?
I'm afraid there's no more copper to solder on, the only chance is to hardwire that switch to another.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: mrbishop on Wed, 16 December 2015, 14:30:06
you sure one couldn't clean that up? is that just plastic or silicone from the middle of the PCB sandwich?
I'm afraid there's no more copper to solder on, the only chance is to hardwire that switch to another.

ah. i thought it was just gunked over with plastic and crud.

that sucks :(
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 14:49:53
Okay, well now we are getting above my paygrade and this I'm not sure I can do, although I'm going to attempt it.  This is so damn easy I can't believe I messed this up.  I had no idea the pcb was getting so hot.  I already plan on replacing the board and the distributer is going to give me a deal, but I still wanna do this.  I can see on a good board where an intact board meets the switch.  [attachimg=1][attachimg=2]



If someone can point me in the direction of hardwiring the switch I'd be oblidged.  I have to buy new tips obviously so maybe this is just not worth it, but I still wanna try.

Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 16 December 2015, 14:54:16
Can you take a HD picture of the whole board?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 15:20:42
When I get home I can post an image of the entire pcb.  I just found a Radio Shack 15 watt soldering iron at work and even the tip on this looks like it's of much better material than what came with this "Mudder" soldering iron.  What do I need to complete this, just some copper wire? 
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 16 December 2015, 15:30:06
What do I need to complete this, just some copper wire?
Yes, even something reused.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 15:36:28
Remember, there is no such thing as a silly question....   Does it need to be insulated?   I have no wire at home so I will go to Radio Shack and get the smallest spool or piece they can cut me.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 16 December 2015, 15:41:29
there is no such thing as a silly question....   
Agreed.

Does it need to be insulated?
Meaning? With rubber around? Yes, that's better, if not mandatory.
Are you sure you don't have any wire at home? You could salvage some from any dead electric equipment, such as a dead PSU or else.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 15:56:07
Actually I may have like a 200 watt psu thats been sitting in a box fox for many years, but maybe I threw it out, so I can't be sure.  I hate to waste cash but the wire is cheap enough.  I have  probably a dozen case fans but don't want to waste those.

I am going to research this too and I don't expect you to hold my hand the entire way, but if you wire it to another switch, how the heck does the controller know what switch is actuating?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 16 December 2015, 15:58:47
I hate to waste cash but the wire is cheap enough.
True that.
In that case 26 AWG will do.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 16 December 2015, 16:12:02
but if you wire it to another switch, how the heck does the controller know what switch is actuating?
In fact, you don't just wire it to any switch, you wire it to the previous switch in the matrix, that's why you need to backtrack the nets.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 20:10:58
I hope you can see enough of the pcb to see what the adjacent switch to wire the space to is. 
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 23:35:07
Can somebody recommend a soldering iron and/or tips for jobs like this one here?  Weller is supposed to be a popular brand.  I'm going to use the Radio Shack model to complete the job since it's better quality than what I have now; it just takes a long time to heat up.

I have not spent a lot of time with pcb's.  How do I tell what the previous switch is in the matrix?

I  did some reading and found what I thought was the previous switch in the matrix- the L Alt.  I loosely wired them and when I pressed the space all I did was close the circuit for the alt switch.  I found different techniques for wiring so I may not have even done it correctly.  I'd be much oblidged if you could tell me the switch and technique I should wire this space bar to.  Thanks a lot.

Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 17 December 2015, 03:11:53
Can somebody recommend a soldering iron and/or tips for jobs like this one here?
Any iron with temperature regulator would work, as for the tips I'm getting good results with these (http://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B000V8GRIA) (I couldn't find on Amazon US but at least you can get the idea).

it just takes a long time to heat up.
It has to, especially when you desolder. Let the iron reach the proper temperature, then clean the tip on a wet sponge until it shines. I usually turn the iron on at the max temperature and the lower it according to my needs. Desoldering usually requires higher temperatures, in my experience.

How do I tell what the previous switch is in the matrix?
You follow the net from the switch pad to another. In your case, looks like the spacebar switch goes directly to the microcontroller, which makes things harder.
You might want to try your luck and connect the spacebar to a random switch to see what happens. Put the switch back in its place, connect your keyboard and then bridge its pins to another switch's, then activate the switch and see what happens. It's a terrible approach to a solution but it might work.

I  did some reading and found what I thought was the previous switch in the matrix- the L Alt.  I loosely wired them and when I pressed the space all I did was close the circuit for the alt switch.  I found different techniques for wiring so I may not have even done it correctly.  I'd be much oblidged if you could tell me the switch and technique I should wire this space bar to.
Read the previous bit, just make sure you bridge the switches with the correct polarity. Meaning left pin to left pin, right pin to right pin.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Thu, 17 December 2015, 10:24:34
Right the microcontroller is between the alt switch and space bar switch.  So it sounds like this won't work, but I'll try.  I'm fairly certain this happened during desoldering and the pin got too hot which burnt the pcb and traces.  I like the solder braid technique better anyway and there is much less chance of damaging components.  I'm buying a Weller next time and learning from these mistakes.

I'll post back and let you know what happens.  So you think I should try random adjacent switches?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 17 December 2015, 11:07:24
Right the microcontroller is between the alt switch and space bar switch.  So it sounds like this won't work, but I'll try.  I'm fairly certain this happened during desoldering and the pin got too hot which burnt the pcb and traces.  I like the solder braid technique better anyway and there is much less chance of damaging components.  I'm buying a Weller next time and learning from these mistakes.

I'll post back and let you know what happens.  So you think I should try random adjacent switches?

Hope you can get it working. looks like a sweet board. worst case you can always get another board and transfer all the switches  or salvage them for other projects so it wont be a total loss. still sucks tho :( like loosing a friend.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 17 December 2015, 11:45:07
So you think I should try random adjacent switches?
I would. It's only one switch. It would take you no more than 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: sircheddar on Thu, 17 December 2015, 11:46:43
My v60 spacebar was chattering like crazy (Gateron switches), so after firmware updates failed to solve the problem the company sent me 17 (yes 17) replacement switches to replace the defective switch.  This was my first time desoldering and soldering a switch and it went without a hitch (almost).

There was a hidded screw under the keycap which I did not see and in trying to separate the board from the case I broke the mini usb port from the board like a space cadet.  I included a pic which is worthless, but you can see the anchor prongs are broken.  Are the any special precedures or worries or considerations I need  to consider, or is this going to be cake?  The part is dirt cheap.  I'm not sure if it was originally soldered in.  Oh yeah, it's soldered in.  The old solder has to be cleaned off

Edit: If anybody needs a replacement switch I'd be happy to send it to them.  I have more than I'll ever need.

Came to this thread expecting a physical injury to OP o:
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Thu, 17 December 2015, 11:53:42
I'm kind of embarrassed to have messed up something that is so elementary.  But anyway what if I can find the traces running from the space bar switch in the pcb and solder a wire to that I found it and it's intact on one side.

There are a lot of people on here who are way smarter than me.  If anyone has any good ideas I'd love to hear them  ^-^
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 17 December 2015, 11:55:44
I'm kind of embarrassed to have messed up something that is so elementary.  But anyway what if I can find the traces running from the space bar switch in the pcb and solder a wire to that I found it and it's intact on one side.

There are a lot of people on here who are way smarter than me.  If anyone has any good ideas I'd love to hear them  ^-^

well i wouldnt' beat yourself up. we all started somewhere and we all have made mistakes. at this point its less smarts than it is skill with a soldering iron. get you the tiniest tip you can find and tack those traces buddy ;)

you can do it!

if not i got dibs on the board before you toss it xD :))
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 17 December 2015, 13:59:14
I'm kind of embarrassed to have messed up something that is so elementary.
You learn from your mistakes, sadly mistakes in electronics cost money.

But anyway what if I can find the traces running from the space bar switch in the pcb and solder a wire to that I found it and it's intact on one side.
Don't look for nets anymore. Just hotwire the spacebar switch to a random key, see what happens when you activate them.
If everything looks good to you, just solder the wires.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Thu, 17 December 2015, 15:08:02


I have hard wired the space bar switch to almost every other switch on the keyboard and all it did was actuate the switch I was wiring to.  I wish I knew more about this but I don't.  I have already purchased a new keyboard and am waiting for it to be shipped, but I still want to do this just to say I did.  I think It's possible with more study of hard wiring and the matrix.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: mrbishop on Thu, 17 December 2015, 21:56:03


I have hard wired the space bar switch to almost every other switch on the keyboard and all it did was actuate the switch I was wiring to.  I wish I knew more about this but I don't.  I have already purchased a new keyboard and am waiting for it to be shipped, but I still want to do this just to say I did.  I think It's possible with more study of hard wiring and the matrix.

dont give up you'll get it. ive had to put projects on the shelf to come back to them. best of luck in this project.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 18 December 2015, 05:19:54
I have hard wired the space bar switch to almost every other switch on the keyboard and all it did was actuate the switch I was wiring to.
Probably the spacebar is the first switch in the matrix, right after the controller.
You have really no other option to wire it a key you're willing to sacrifice and remap it to as a blank space. Best candidates would be right GUI or App. But it's up to you.
Keep us noticed.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:27:47
I would imagine using software introduces a delay, whether or not it's perceptible I don't know.  I have a new a board coming the middle of next week, so it may be time to retire this.  I will continue to experiment with the wiring but I don't have high hopes.  I will read up on boards that have been hardwired vs pcb.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 18 December 2015, 09:41:50
I would imagine using software introduces a delay
I don't know if your keyboard has a reflashable firmware, if that's the case, there would be no (extra) delay.

Edit: Typo.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 19:30:21
I have gotten the spacebar switch to work by wiring one part of the switch to the diode labelled "D31."  By connecting 1 pin of the switch to the negative part of this diode (I think it's a diode).  The other end I connected to the visible trace coming from the opposite pin and when depressing the switch the space actually worked.  My soldering skills are meager but I'm going to give it a go.  What do I have to lose?

I could also work in the area of the controller I think, but this I'd rather not do. Each pin is labelled 1-64 and I was able (I think) to get a space to actuate as well on the appropriate pin.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 19:48:07
I would imagine using software introduces a delay
I don't know if your keyboard has a reflashable firmware, if that's the case, there would be no (extra) delay.

Edit: Typo.

I've already flashed to the most recent firmware.  However, this may cause a problem when swapping keyboards.  The V60 Gateron is my favorite, but I'd like to use others occasionally.  I'm glad I didn't sell my Poker 3.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 19 December 2015, 03:30:43
There is now a close parenthesis missing from this thread title.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me)
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sat, 19 December 2015, 13:33:16
There is now a close parenthesis missing from this thread title.

It got cut off, or overlooked, or whatever.  If it bothers you that much I'd be happy to correct it ^-^
However, I do have a blister on my finger from the soldering iron, so technically I was injured.  The rubber insulation does not work so well.

I'll post an image of my hack job tonight.  Hopefully I'll by typing the update from a working board.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 20 December 2015, 23:07:50
So believe it or not I finally got the space bar switch working.  Eventually the Radio Shack tip would not work for me anymore, but I found the "Mudder" chisel tip to be highly useful, but in certain cases too large obviously. It was actually much more effective than all the other tips combined. I want to thank everyone here for there tips and tricks and support.  Looking at the finished work I am embarrassed to show it to anybody. Getting the solder to melt and flow into nice shiny pools was the hardest part of all this I(in some places it is not so I cannot speak as to the longevity of this repair). I also found that this Mudder iron actually works well at the very lowest setting of 200 degrees C.  Whether or not that has any accuracy or not I have not idea, but the higher temps of 300-375 may have caused these tips to burn out prematurely?  I need better tools and a lot more experience.  I also need to learn to better maintain the tips while I'm using them so they don't degrade so fast.  Ironically I don't predict actually going to have a need solder anything else in the near future. 

If anyone really has a wish to see the finished product I can post it, but there is not much to see.  I ended up using about 3 inches too much wire for each terminal because I found any shorter left me no room to maneuver the opposite end.  Ironically I spent almost as much on materials as I did on the replacement board. But it's a great feeling to say "I did it" even if it was a crappy job.  I'm really a DIY'er.  I own 50 watches and if was to pay professionals to maintain them it would cost me a couple grand a year, and I know I'm doing it correctly with no shortcuts taken or being taken advantage of.


Anyone who has not tried Gateron Browns I highly recommend them, even over Cherry Browns, but you need to like minimal resistance and minimal tactical feedback or this switch is not for you.  There is even less of a "bump" than Cherry Browns.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me
Post by: TalkingTree on Mon, 21 December 2015, 04:10:21
So believe it or not I finally got the space bar switch working.
I saw it coming. Congrats.


higher temps of 300-375 may have caused these tips to burn out prematurely?
Most likely. You're to melt tin not steel. You don't need temperatures this high.


Anyone who has not tried Gateron Browns I highly recommend them, even over Cherry Browns, but you need to like minimal resistance and minimal tactical feedback or this switch is not for you.  There is even less of a "bump" than Cherry Browns.
I don't like MX Browns but I do have the feeling that Gateron is making better switches than Cherry.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 21 December 2015, 08:31:48
glad to see you got it working  :thumb:
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:17:50
I was reading about a man who claimed to use these temperatures for electronics soldering (300-375) and the higher temps of 375 through the PCB  (what do I know, I'm new at this).  I'm sure that this is how I destroyed the pcb.  Plus, who knows how accurate the temperature gauge on the iron really is.  I actually found that iron set at the lowest possible setting was perfectly adequate and the solder wick far superior even though the solder sucker seems to be much more popular. 

The first couple times I'd use a tip I would get a nice, clean, shiny, even pool of molten solder right where I wanted it to be.  If you look at the images now there are areas where the solder has hardly melted enough.  However, there is really no stress at these joints inside the case.  If I ever get new equipment and have the case open I may redo the poorly done areas, but it seems to be making good connections and holding tight enough for now so I will leave well enough alone.

What sucks is that I ordered a replacement board because I didn't think there was a chance of it working again.  Oh well, now I have two.  I just need practice and some better quality toys to play with.  I have many skills but it's safe to say soldering is not my forte.

Thanks for the words of encouragement and not bashing my obviously terrible job.  But hey, I did a darn good job of soldering the mini-usb port I thought.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 21 December 2015, 12:19:57
I was reading about a man who claimed to use these temperatures for electronics soldering (300-375) and the higher temps of 375 through the PCB  (what do I know, I'm new at this).  I'm sure that this is how I destroyed the pcb.  Plus, who knows how accurate the temperature gauge on the iron really is.  I actually found that iron set at the lowest possible setting was perfectly adequate and the solder wick far superior even though the solder sucker seems to be much more popular. 

The first couple times I'd use a tip I would get a nice, clean, shiny, even pool of molten solder right where I wanted it to be.  If you look at the images now there are areas where the solder has hardly melted enough.  However, there is really no stress at these joints inside the case.  If I ever get new equipment and have the case open I may redo the poorly done areas, but it seems to be making good connections and holding tight enough for now so I will leave well enough alone.

What sucks is that I ordered a replacement board because I didn't think there was a chance of it working again.  Oh well, now I have two.  I just need practice and some better quality toys to play with.  I have many skills but it's safe to say soldering is not my forte.

Thanks for the words of encouragement and not bashing my obviously terrible job.  But hey, I did a darn good job of soldering the mini-usb port I thought.
We all start somewhere. Practice makes perfect. Maybe you can build the second board for practice. Where did you order it from btw?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: TalkingTree on Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:59:53
What sucks is that I ordered a replacement board because I didn't think there was a chance of it working again.  Oh well, now I have two.
So? I gave one custom 60% to a friend and already ordered parts for two more for myself. The more the better.
Give a try to different layouts.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 21 December 2015, 14:28:42
What sucks is that I ordered a replacement board because I didn't think there was a chance of it working again.  Oh well, now I have two.
So? I gave one custom 60% to a friend and already ordered parts for two more for myself. The more the better.
Give a try to different layouts.

what boards are you ordering?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: TalkingTree on Mon, 21 December 2015, 15:13:59
what boards are you ordering?
GON's, from LeandreN's GB.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: mrbishop on Mon, 21 December 2015, 15:15:11
what boards are you ordering?
GON's, from LeandreN's GB.

oh nice.
i need more PCB's in my life. i have plans for a JD40 and Phantom as well as some i'm designing myself
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Mon, 21 December 2015, 17:48:15
what boards are you ordering?
GON's, from LeandreN's GB.

Well, when
What sucks is that I ordered a replacement board because I didn't think there was a chance of it working again.  Oh well, now I have two.
So? I gave one custom 60% to a friend and already ordered parts for two more for myself. The more the better.
Give a try to different layouts.

what boards are you ordering?

what boards are you ordering?
GON's, from LeandreN's GB.

I say replacement I mean replacment... the exact same board!  The manufacturer was sympathetic because supposedly I was the only reported case of key chatter with this series of boards so they gave me a discount.  I know the V60's have had their issues, but this was supposedly the only one with the Gaterons.  They offered to take the board back for a refund but did not know if they would be producing more, so I declined.  They gave me a discount. 

I was buying through Rabbit Web Factory.  I have good and bad things to say about them, but mostly good, very good. 
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 21 December 2015, 22:56:47
Missing right parenthesis - SOLVED ;D
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 25 December 2015, 01:42:48
You  may be curious to know that the replacement  space bar switch is still  chattering. The  only think I can think of to do right  now is to test it on another board  and then wire it to the  V60.   I have extra switches.  The space bar is the WORST key to  chatter.  Think if every 2 or 3 space bara presses it  inserted 2 or 3 extra  spaces....   I don't know  if this is a coincidence or a problem with Gateron in  general.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 25 December 2015, 06:05:07
You  may be curious to know that the replacement  space bar switch is still  chattering.
It could be a board issue.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 25 December 2015, 10:27:04
You  may be curious to know that the replacement  space bar switch is still  chattering.
It could be a board issue.
You  may be curious to know that the replacement  space bar switch is still  chattering.
It could be a board issue.

This is what the keyboard distributor said to me is that they don't know that the problem is caused by the keyswitch, but if I wanted to here are some switches, knock yourself out. 

So TalkingTree, you think the problem may be elsewhere?  Could you elaborate?  I was certain  from what I thought that this would solve the problem.  Maybe it's not worth any more time or effort, but , but I'm a big DIY'er.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: TalkingTree on Fri, 25 December 2015, 11:12:53
Replacing a faulty switch with another faulty one is some luck but may happen. You could triple check and replace yet another switch. Even better you could try the "faulty" two switches on some other circuit.
If not the switches themselves, the issue might be in the PCB controller.

Did your keyboard always chatter on the spacebar? Have you tried a different OS? (Not different version, entirely different system).
You need to debug a bit.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 25 December 2015, 19:47:54
I am now getting a "usb device not recognized."  So I will clean all the contacts, melted plastic, flux, solder, make sure there are no shorts and see what happens.  Given the opportunity I could do a much better repair job now, but it may not be repairable.   Worst comes to worst I do have the replacement board coming in a few days and I learned a few things. 

I'd be curious to get feedback from other Gateron owners.  It seems you can get chatter by hitting any switch on the very edge, but in theory the spacebar is kept flat by the stabilizers.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Fri, 25 December 2015, 20:21:29
It seems the problem is at the 5 pin contact of the mini usb with the board.  They are soldered and even under magnification it's hard to tell, but something is mobile.  With proper contact it is recognizable again.  So this is still fixable.  What I need is quality soldering tips.  I think it was you Talking Tree who pointed me to  a link for Amazon Spanish for 5 soldering tips.  I don't know how universal these tips are. Do you think these will work with this iron that I have.  The tips now are all unusuable except for the chisel one which still works well for soldering wick.  This is my iron.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015UC2IVG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00

This is what I have now and it is rated well, but I can tell you the tips are not good.  I am willing to pay a good amount of money for tips that allow me to finish the job properly.
I am open for any recommendations.  And talking tree I will take your recommendations into account too about triple checking switches and under different OS, etc.

The spacebar always chattered.  It seems to really test the switch properly, there needs to be keycap attached to it.  I'm not really sure how to do this with a spacebar unless I replace the spacebar on the cherry board with a gateron switch.  I just don't understand, the firmware is supposed to ignore extra keystrokes that occur say before say 15 ms to prevent this problem from ever happening.

BTW, Merry X-mas everyone!!!!  My family celebrates Xmas on Saturday, which is why I am online now.  I used to have VM Ware installed with a Linux Distro and I have not used it for some time.  For some reason it is inoperable.  I can't imagine this is a solution, but I am willing to try.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: TalkingTree on Sat, 26 December 2015, 04:20:37
I am now getting a "usb device not recognized."
Most likely the USB connector.

I do have the replacement board coming in a few days and I learned a few things. 
That's a good thing, you can start out fresh now.


I'd be curious to get feedback from other Gateron owners.  It seems you can get chatter by hitting any switch on the very edge, but in theory the spacebar is kept flat by the stabilizers.
I made a 60% with Gateron Reds for a friend and she never experienced any issue at all.

It seems the problem is at the 5 pin contact of the mini usb with the board.  They are soldered and even under magnification it's hard to tell, but something is mobile.  With proper contact it is recognizable again.  So this is still fixable.
Fixable and easily. Just resolder it. Hold the pin you're soldering down with tweezers or a flathead screwdriver.

  What I need is quality soldering tips.  I think it was you Talking Tree who pointed me to  a link for Amazon Spanish for 5 soldering tips.  I don't know how universal these tips are. Do you think these will work with this iron that I have.
It was me indeed, but those tips are solid while your iron's are hollow (or so it looks), so it won't do.


The tips now are all unusuable except for the chisel one which still works well for soldering wick.  This is my iron.
How unusable? Did they bend or break?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015UC2IVG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00

This is what I have now and it is rated well, but I can tell you the tips are not good.  I am willing to pay a good amount of money for tips that allow me to finish the job properly.
I am open for any recommendations.
Ask a question on that Amazon page for compatible tips. Other customers would know better.


The spacebar always chattered.  It seems to really test the switch properly, there needs to be keycap attached to it.  I'm not really sure how to do this with a spacebar unless I replace the spacebar on the cherry board with a gateron switch.  I just don't understand, the firmware is supposed to ignore extra keystrokes that occur say before say 15 ms to prevent this problem from ever happening.
If you think the issue is in the Gateron switch, try a different brand, it shouldn't be hard to get ahold of one single switch.

I used to have VM Ware installed with a Linux Distro and I have not used it for some time.
My keyboard acts funny on Virtualbox, specifically, it won't register modifiers if I hold down the Fn key. Just a heads up in case it happens the same to you.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:21:34

The tips now are all unusuable except for the chisel one which still works well for soldering wick.  This is my iron.
How unusable? Did they bend or break?



They are pitted, have sort of white dust on them, even areas with red oxidation (they have not gotten wet).  The tips do no get hot. This is what I mean when they are unusuable.  To use them I have to touch an area of the soldering tip way back that has never been used.  I've tried fluxing them and tinning them, lightly sanding them, and I don't know what else to do.

If I could use them without buying new ones that would be great, but I don't think that would be possible.  Even the radio shack tip is much denser than these and it has more the color of a copper penny than a cheap chrome appearance.  I don't want to spend too much more money doing this, but I'm determined to finish it correctly, just because I can, or can learn to.

I am 85 percent certain that the problem is the switch, I just don't understand how the issue could be any other component, but there are people who know way more about keyboards than I do.  But that's my story and I'm sticking to it till I'm proven otherwise.



I
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: TalkingTree on Sat, 26 December 2015, 14:05:30
The tips do no get hot.
The iron might be faulty, can you RMA it?

I am 85 percent certain that the problem is the switch, I just don't understand how the issue could be any other component,
Such issue is either mechanical or electrical. So either the switch or the controller.
Do you have switches from a brand different than Gateron handy?
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sat, 26 December 2015, 19:29:06
That is an interesting theory.  I don't have any other switches at the moment.  I thought the firmware was supposed to be able to filter  out and extra keystrokes that occur too fast for a human to make them.  So whatever the threshold say 25ms, any multiple strokes will count as only one.  This prevents debounce which is supposedly inherrent in any switch.  I don't know how a controller could have a problem with one switch
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: TalkingTree on Sun, 27 December 2015, 03:09:07
I thought the firmware was supposed to be able to filter  out and extra keystrokes
Maybe a faulty firmware? Can you reflash it?

Also, I experienced chattering with all keyboards (membrane and mechanical) on Windows due to a bug with the USB 3.0 ports getting and electronical interference by 2,4 GHz radio waves. Basically, either disabling Wi-Fi antennas or installing the proper drivers fixed it. I don't think this is your situation because it only happens with the spacebar, but you can't ever tell with Windows.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 27 December 2015, 15:51:09
double post

Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) SOLVED
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 27 December 2015, 16:12:38
This problem has been occurring long before I flashed the firmware.  I will give another crack at repairing it with better materials.  Here are some examples.
I'd be curious how to test the individual switches for variance and I would also like to to try a Cherry switch in place of the gateron.  I also need a more methodical way of testing the switches before installing them.a
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved New possible problem
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 27 December 2015, 21:52:35
There is something else i noticed is that the steell plate is bent right at the space bar.  Now this I DID NOT DO.  Not a chance.  I would not be surprised if that plays a key role in the chatter that I have spent two months trying to sort out.  I took these measurements on the outside of the pcb and steel plate because they are constant.  At the widest place it measures 6.66mm, at the narrowest it measures5.58mm.  That means that the steel plate is bent almost 1 mm closer to the pcb than it it supposed to and this could be big factor.  Here are the images.

Unfortunately, I kind of shot myself in the foot because I opened the case and voided the warranty.  I know for a fact that I did not to that.  Please excuse my lousy camera pictures.  It's time to upgrade.  Please look.  I have a feeling the manufacturer is going to laugh at me when I explain this.  But this  will cause improper support for the switch and even in my newbie mind makes it a prime environment for debounce.  Now mind you, this happened before I ever even opened the case.  I may be learning soldering do's and don'ts and have made a few mistakes, but I have never bent steel plates. It takes a tremendous amount of force to bend this and I am not that negligent.  I sure hope the pictures elucidate my point clear enough.  The bend is exactly under the space bar.

Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sun, 27 December 2015, 22:03:50
Having trouble adding more pics... Poor images , but the narrowest area occurs exactly where the space bar switch lies.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved New possible problem
Post by: TalkingTree on Mon, 28 December 2015, 02:56:42
There is something else i noticed is that the steell plate is bent right at the space bar. I would not be surprised if that plays a key role in the chatter
I would be surprised if it does not. A deformed support could affect the switch in multiple ways.
You might want to address the issue to the manufacturer.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: Rayoui on Mon, 28 December 2015, 06:03:14
I experienced many issues similar to the ones you have described that ended up stemming from the soldering iron I happened to be using at the time. I was using a Weller SP40NKUS which is a 40w iron and does not have any kind of temperature control. I was constantly burning PCBs, lifting pads and going through tips like you would not believe. Come to find out, the iron was running at about 480c (eek!). Shortly thereafter, I switched to a Weller WES51 which has a proper temperature control circuit and have not had any issues with tips degrading or burned PCBs and I get perfect joints almost every time.

It doesn't take much heat to melt solder, however, the heat has to be able to transfer into the solder to do what it's supposed to. If there is a layer of oxidation insulating either the pad or your iron's tip, heat will not be transferred. It seems you were experiencing this problem as you said your tips were oxidizing quickly (possibly from the iron being too hot or just low quality tips). In response, you increased the heat of your iron which likely only exacerbated the problem, causing the tip to oxidize further while still not conducting heat properly.

You could try using some better quality tips or a different iron which has better temperature control. Try to keep the heat a little lower to avoid corroding the tips as quickly and prevent damage to the PCB. I usually keep my iron set around 350c for this kind of work. Simultaneously heat the pad and pin directly with the tip and flow the solder onto the pad, not the iron. The solder should melt almost instantly. If it does not, remove the iron and investigate what is preventing the heat from transferring properly. Try using some flux on the pad and keep your iron's tip tinned. Clean the tip with one of those brass wool tip cleaners and re-tin the tip. You shouldn't have to leave the tip on the pad for more than a couple of seconds maximum. Using a good rosin-core solder helps as well.

As far as the chattering, there were some issues with the Zealio switches (also manufactured by Gateron) chattering after being soldered if too much heat was applied as the bottom of the casing would melt a little bit around the pins, altering the shape of the leaf inside the switch. I don't have any standard Gateron switches lying around to test so I'm not sure if they also have this issue. Obviously if the original switch was chattering right out of the box this probably isn't its problem but it might explain the replacement switch chattering as well.

More
Note the melting around the pins of the switch on the right.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5800/22718147712_22ec4ba3ea_k.jpg)


Good luck with your board!
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Tue, 29 December 2015, 12:17:30
I have the replacement board and not a single switch chatters.  I can try bending the steel plate level and see if that has an effect.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 29 December 2015, 15:11:45
I have the replacement board and not a single switch chatters.  I can try bending the steep plate level and see if that has an effect.
Try heating the plate before unbending.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 30 December 2015, 11:39:59
I have the replacement board and not a single switch chatters.  I can try bending the steep plate level and see if that has an effect.
Try heating the plate before unbending.

I have the replacement board and not a single switch chatters.  I can try bending the steel plate level and see if that has an effect. 


Try heating the plate before unbending.

This is thick steel, it will not be easy.  It's too bad I did not see this in the beginning.  But to bring this to the manufacturer now would be fruitless.  Although they could at least know for QC purposes and what have you.  Maybe I will contact them.
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 30 December 2015, 11:48:40
I experienced many issues similar to the ones you have described that ended up stemming from the soldering iron I happened to be using at the time. I was using a Weller SP40NKUS which is a 40w iron and does not have any kind of temperature control. I was constantly burning PCBs, lifting pads and going through tips like you would not believe. Come to find out, the iron was running at about 480c (eek!). Shortly thereafter, I switched to a Weller WES51 which has a proper temperature control circuit and have not had any issues with tips degrading or burned PCBs and I get perfect joints almost every time.

It doesn't take much heat to melt solder, however, the heat has to be able to transfer into the solder to do what it's supposed to. If there is a layer of oxidation insulating either the pad or your iron's tip, heat will not be transferred. It seems you were experiencing this problem as you said your tips were oxidizing quickly (possibly from the iron being too hot or just low quality tips). In response, you increased the heat of your iron which likely only exacerbated the problem, causing the tip to oxidize further while still not conducting heat properly.

You could try using some better quality tips or a different iron which has better temperature control. Try to keep the heat a little lower to avoid corroding the tips as quickly and prevent damage to the PCB. I usually keep my iron set around 350c for this kind of work. Simultaneously heat the pad and pin directly with the tip and flow the solder onto the pad, not the iron. The solder should melt almost instantly. If it does not, remove the iron and investigate what is preventing the heat from transferring properly. Try using some flux on the pad and keep your iron's tip tinned. Clean the tip with one of those brass wool tip cleaners and re-tin the tip. You shouldn't have to leave the tip on the pad for more than a couple of seconds maximum. Using a good rosin-core solder helps as well.

As far as the chattering, there were some issues with the Zealio switches (also manufactured by Gateron) chattering after being soldered if too much heat was applied as the bottom of the casing would melt a little bit around the pins, altering the shape of the leaf inside the switch. I don't have any standard Gateron switches lying around to test so I'm not sure if they also have this issue. Obviously if the original switch was chattering right out of the box this probably isn't its problem but it might explain the replacement switch chattering as well.

More
Note the melting around the pins of the switch on the right.
Show Image
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5800/22718147712_22ec4ba3ea_k.jpg)


Good luck with your board!

No kidding?  I'm assuming that the temp control is working.  Even at the lowest setting it's hot enough to melt solder.  I purchased some Hakko tips, a pack of 10, so I'm assuming they are better quality.  But who knows, maybe it is broken and stuck at 400C.  I also purchased a brass wool cleaner. 

It would take a lot of force to bend that steel.  I wonder how it happened.  Hopefully straightening it to the best of my ability will fix it.  But I already have my new board so I'm starting to just feel like saying "screw it."
Title: Re: Keyboard injury (to keyboard, not me) not solved
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Wed, 30 December 2015, 22:07:43
Looking at this board, I'm not going to even attempt to straighten it.  I am going to contact the manufacturer.  It would take an exceptional amount of power to do this and to do it without damaging the rest of the board would be difficult at best.