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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 December 2015, 10:21:14

Title: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Hypersphere on Sat, 26 December 2015, 10:21:14: I've been tweaking my method for silencing Topre-switch keyboards, using a combination of Silencing Rings and lubing of stabilizers and switches. This most recent "ring job and lube" produced the best silencing yet.

Previously, I had lubricated only the stabilizers. My earlier method was to use relatively thick grease,such as MechLube2 from EK. However, all of the greases I had tried seemed to dry up after a time.

My current method is to install Silencing Rings in all the switches and then to lubricate the stabilizers and switches using SuperLube 51010 Oil. The oil is applied with a small paintbrush on friction points such as articulations of stabilzer wires and the slider rails of switches. I've reproduced an image showing a similar procedure on the switch slider rails of a HHKB Pro 2 keyboard:

[attachimg=1]
https://i.imgur.com/DQyf2Sa.jpg

I also put a two-layer square of self-adhesive anti-skid strips on each side of the spacebar switch to serve as downstroke dampers for the spacebar.

This method produced the best silencing I have experienced to date, as demonstrated in the following video/audio clips and audio waveforms. Keystrokes were 3 each of Tab, Backslash (HHKB Delete/Backspace), CapsLock/Ctrl, Return/Enter, Left Shift, Right Shift, and Spacebar, followed by 3 each of "This is this." (without quotation marks), ending with 3 each of Return/Enter and Spacebar.

Before silencing:

[attachimg=2]

After silencing:

[attachimg=3]

I hope that these tips will help others who are interested in silencing their Topre-switch keyboards. The same principles should apply to any Topre-switch board, including RF87U/104U, HHKB Pro 2, Leopold FC660C, CM Novatouch, and others.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: retrochick on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:03:02: Thanks for this. I lube my hhkb with krytox 103 and love it. Thick lube tends to also dampen the springiness of the switch I find.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Latin00032 on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:13:25: Quote from: retrochick on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:03:02
Thanks for this. I lube my hhkb with krytox 103 and love it. Thick lube tends to also dampen the springiness of the switch I find.
Is dampening the springiness bad?
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: dgneo on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:18:15: Quote from: Latin00032 on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:13:25
Quote from: retrochick on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:03:02
Thanks for this. I lube my hhkb with krytox 103 and love it. Thick lube tends to also dampen the springiness of the switch I find.
Is dampening the springiness bad?

More preference than anything. I too lubed my HHKB with 103, and I love it even more.

I should clarify, as long as you don't overlube them, you'll be fine. You only need a small bit on the tip of a brush, and only need to brush here:

(http://i.imgur.com/2YnaOhm.jpg)
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: retrochick on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:40:00: Quote from: Latin00032 on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:13:25
Quote from: retrochick on Sat, 26 December 2015, 11:03:02
Thanks for this. I lube my hhkb with krytox 103 and love it. Thick lube tends to also dampen the springiness of the switch I find.
Is dampening the springiness bad?

Yes unless you like mushy topre
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: raymogi on Sat, 26 December 2015, 17:59:04: Might try this. How do you clean up the previous lube job though? Used mechlube also on my HHKB. I think it's been 2 months since I did it.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: retrochick on Sat, 26 December 2015, 18:10:39: Quote from: raymogi on Sat, 26 December 2015, 17:59:04
Might try this. How do you clean up the previous lube job though? Used mechlube also on my HHKB. I think it's been 2 months since I did it.
I think q tips with isp alcohol will remove any existing lube.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: iss on Sat, 26 December 2015, 19:38:02: Another satisfied GPL103-lubed Hypersphere-silenced HHKB user chiming in! It was definitely kind of a pain to do (although not as bad as switch lubing), but the results were fantastic.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: bocahgundul on Sat, 26 December 2015, 20:08:33: I don't need to lube the stem right? just the rail right?
I'm waiting for my silencing ring and I'm gonna try to lube it with ro-59 which have the same viscosity as krytox 103
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 27 December 2015, 09:25:57: @raymogi: If you have previously lubed with a thick grease such as MechLube2, you can remove this by cleaning all the sliders and housings with 70% isopropyl alcohol. You might want to do a soak in detergent followed by thorough rinsing with water, possibly finishing with an isopropyl alcohol rinse and allowing to dry completely.

@bocahgundul: I have heard of some people lubing the stems, but I think this might make the switches too sluggish. I would recommend lubing only the rails, using a small paintbrush to apply the lube sparingly. I just received some ro-59 from hasu, but I have not tried it. I have also not tried Krytox 103. So far, I have gotten my best lubing results using SuperLube 51010 oil, which is readily available and much less expensive than Krytox 103.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: dgneo on Sun, 27 December 2015, 09:34:52: Quote from: bocahgundul on Sat, 26 December 2015, 20:08:33
I don't need to lube the stem right? just the rail right?
I'm waiting for my silencing ring and I'm gonna try to lube it with ro-59 which have the same viscosity as krytox 103

(http://i.imgur.com/2YnaOhm.jpg)

This is all you should need to lube.

I've just finished installing the Silencing Rings in my already-lubed (Krytox 103) HHKB, and the difference is fantastic. Upstroke is way quieter, if not deeper, and the switches/keycaps feel a bit more solid now as well.

Definitely worth the money if you're looking for something to add to your board.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Latin00032 on Sun, 27 December 2015, 10:36:32: Quote from: dgneo on Sun, 27 December 2015, 09:34:52
Quote from: bocahgundul on Sat, 26 December 2015, 20:08:33
I don't need to lube the stem right? just the rail right?
I'm waiting for my silencing ring and I'm gonna try to lube it with ro-59 which have the same viscosity as krytox 103

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/2YnaOhm.jpg)

This is all you should need to lube.

I've just finished installing the Silencing Rings in my already-lubed (Krytox 103) HHKB, and the difference is fantastic. Upstroke is way quieter, if not deeper, and the switches/keycaps feel a bit more solid now as well.

Definitely worth the money if you're looking for something to add to your board.
When are the rings going to be available again?

And, which is the right lube to use?
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: graefeln on Sun, 27 December 2015, 11:00:43: Quote from: Latin00032 on Sun, 27 December 2015, 10:36:32

When are the rings going to be available again?

They should be available now. Try this link: http://www.ebay.com/usr/katesattic2?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 27 December 2015, 11:08:08: @Dolch: The rings are available now from "katesattic2" on eBay. As for which lubricant is the "right" one to use, I suppose this varies according to individual preference, but I got the best results lubing all the switch rails with SuperLube 51010 oil, applied sparingly with a small paintbrush. I used a higher viscosity oil for the stabilizer wires: SuperLube 51004. It seems that quite a few people recommend Krytox 103 or a Krytox blend. I have not yet tried Krytox oils, but I would like to do so. However, Krytox is quite expensive.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: bocahgundul on Sun, 27 December 2015, 17:16:26: I can't find krytox 103 anywhere >:D
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:13:56: Quote from: bocahgundul on Sun, 27 December 2015, 17:16:26
I can't find krytox 103 anywhere >:D
If you Google it, there are several sites that come up.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: dgneo on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:17:26: Quote from: bocahgundul on Sun, 27 December 2015, 17:16:26
I can't find krytox 103 anywhere >:D

MrRooks on here is actually selling some, that's where I got mine from. Here's his sale thread. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69789.msg1676256#msg1676256)
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Bevo on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:23:44: Do you find topre switches to be too loud or just trying something different?

For me, half the reason i bought topre was for the satisfying "thock" sound.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: nmur on Mon, 28 December 2015, 08:13:16: Quote from: Bevo on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:23:44
Do you find topre switches to be too loud or just trying something different?

For me, half the reason i bought topre was for the satisfying "thock" sound.

topre silencing is nothing to do with ridding the bottom out thock, but more to do with eliminating the plastic-on-plastic snap sound at the end of the upstroke.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Hypersphere on Mon, 28 December 2015, 11:24:42: Quote from: nmur on Mon, 28 December 2015, 08:13:16
Quote from: Bevo on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:23:44
Do you find topre switches to be too loud or just trying something different?

For me, half the reason i bought topre was for the satisfying "thock" sound.

topre silencing is nothing to do with ridding the bottom out thock, but more to do with eliminating the plastic-on-plastic snap sound at the end of the upstroke.
Yes. +1!
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: graefeln on Mon, 28 December 2015, 11:30:15: Quote from: dgneo on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:17:26
Quote from: bocahgundul on Sun, 27 December 2015, 17:16:26
I can't find krytox 103 anywhere >:D

MrRooks on here is actually selling some, that's where I got mine from. Here's his sale thread. (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69789.msg1676256#msg1676256)

Thanks for the heads up on the Krytox... I was actually wondering where to get some. If anyone else is curious, MrRooks is on holiday in Mexico and said he wouldn't be able to ship until the 31st... I am in no rush anyways.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: bocahgundul on Mon, 28 December 2015, 19:17:34: The problem is nobody wants to ship to Indonesia :'(
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: romevi on Sat, 16 January 2016, 09:47:08: Excellent. Will try this once I get your silencing rings.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Wildcard on Sat, 16 January 2016, 10:23:54: Quote from: nmur on Mon, 28 December 2015, 08:13:16
Quote from: Bevo on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:23:44
Do you find topre switches to be too loud or just trying something different?

For me, half the reason i bought topre was for the satisfying "thock" sound.

topre silencing is nothing to do with ridding the bottom out thock, but more to do with eliminating the plastic-on-plastic snap sound at the end of the upstroke.

This is 100% correct. IMO putting a damper on the down stroke ruins the best part about Topre. Fixing the upstroke is the method used in all the type S boards.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: XMIT on Sat, 16 January 2016, 21:58:01: Quote from: nmur on Mon, 28 December 2015, 08:13:16
Quote from: Bevo on Mon, 28 December 2015, 07:23:44
Do you find topre switches to be too loud or just trying something different?

For me, half the reason i bought topre was for the satisfying "thock" sound.

topre silencing is nothing to do with ridding the bottom out thock, but more to do with eliminating the plastic-on-plastic snap sound at the end of the upstroke.

Am I the only one who is irritated by the plastic-on-plastic clack at the bottom of the stroke on a HiPro? I've been thinking of experimenting with a second damping ring just for the HiPro. With the taller switch guides these bottom out - painfully and loudly - on plastic.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: Hypersphere on Sun, 17 January 2016, 08:23:59: @XMIT: Perhaps we could put our heads together on this one. I wonder how many HiPro users are out there? I do not have one myself. The closest I have come to this is a Novatouch with SA profile caps. Interestingly, to avoid bottoming-out noise on the Novatouch, you need the higher profile caps, such as OEM or SA profile. Cherry profile results in bottoming-out noise. Of course, the HiPro design is quite different.
Title: Re: Updated Topre Silencing
Post by: XMIT on Sun, 17 January 2016, 09:36:41: Yes, we've chatted about this some in various PMs.

The bottoming out on the HiPro is a lot like the bottoming out of thick PBT Cherry profile caps on the Novatouch. Same idea. And ... no progress since last time :-(

I was hoping that another HiPro user would see this post and comment!