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geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:05:54

Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:05:54: I've been only using 4 button mice w/scroll wheel since the first optical mice were popular and I'm thinking of trying something new.

Amazon is a great tool for gauging how good an item is overall. I go and search "Mouse" then filter by 4 stars or better, then by bestselling. #1 and 2 don't apply, but I was shocked to see #3 was a trackball!

Logitech Trackman Wheel Optical for $23.95
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414BUQX%2BXSL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1258824104/ref=sr_st?keywords=mouse&rs=172282&page=1&bbn=172282&rh=n:172282,n:!493964,k:mouse&sort=pmrank

Do you think this is worth getting or should I hold out for a Microsoft Trackball Optical?
(http://www.computerverein-rostock.de/userpix/4_mstrackballoptical_1.jpg)

I don't really want to try both or go on a pointing device crusade, I'd prefer to get a great one and decide if I like it or want to stick to mice.

One thing I noticed is the Logitech is a 2 button, where the Microsoft is a 4 button. Those forward/back browser buttons are indespensible to me so that may rule out the Logitech.

Is there another option like the MS that is still in production?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:15:37: The Logitech is three button and the MS is probably five (scroll wheels are generally buttons, even on trackballs)

The only four button trackball I can think of is the Kensington Expert mouse.
(http://schwarztech.us/contentimages/reviews/kensington/expertmouse2.jpg)
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:20:00: I have only briefly used the trackballs with the "Larger" balls. They are common in Engineering/Architectural firms or departments. For me, I was not nearly as fast. They were really fun to use, but navigation was quite a bit slower than with a mouse.

I don't game at all, so I don't care about gaming, but I do navigate very quickly on the internet, it makes people dizzy if they watch me (and I make myself dizzy frequently as well)

Do those of you that have used a trackball feel you can achieve the same speed as a good optical/laser mouse?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:31:35: I wouldn't be so quick to knock the 'big ball' units. Perhaps the ones you tried were older units that didn't have good tracking, or a smooth action? I say this because I own the Logitech you linked and an Expert Mouse, and I consider the latter superior. That said, I'd prefer the Logitech Trackman to just about any mouse. It's just that the Expert Mouse is just even more effortless.

And to answer, I find the Trackballs faster (once you are acclimatized to them). Gaming is the only area I have encountered where the mouse is preferable.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:34:29: That's good to know, maybe I'll take a stroll over to our engineering building and see what lurks there to be tested. I'm sure there are plenty of options as we have many engineers.
Thanks.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:36:54: Yes, I'm constantly scrolling web pages
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 21 November 2009, 12:38:40: Oh, then that's even further reason to consider the Kensington. The scroll wheel is really nice, despite what the naysayers on Amazon say.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 13:05:55: That poolball trackball looks great, spendy though. I do like those external video game buttons that you setup, that next to an Otaku board would make any n00b passing by think you were about to plug into the Matrix. They'd be like "Wow, there really are hackers like in the movies" I love it.

The Kensignton got great reviews on Lifehacker. And the price is more affordable.
http://lifehacker.com/5054519/the-best-mouse-youve-ever-had
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 21 November 2009, 13:14:00: I don't think the scratchiness is that bad. And those CSTs are bloody expensive alright. I was about to order one when I thought "Wow, this thing is far too expensive for what it is". I think I'll stick to my Kensington for now.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 21 November 2009, 13:15:41: thanks for the nod ripster. : ) and yes, scrolling is much improved by removing the magnet. Its not much of a mod, more like just removing the magnet. You would think someone at Kensington Quality Control would have thought to mention, you know, this magnet thingy makes the scroll wheel suck. Maybe we should remove it? Theres a Dilbert cartoon in here somewhere for that...

The kensington expert is a great mouse btw.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: o2dazone on Sat, 21 November 2009, 13:36:14: I've been using my Microsoft TBO for about 7 years now, they're great. I've also used the Trackman, and equally great. The ball is a little smaller, and there's no Mouse4/Mouse5, but you're not throwing down some coin like you are with the Microsoft Trackball. I am the same way you are, I can't live without my back/forward history buttons. If you use a Mac though, the Intellimouse drivers for it are a little shotty. Usually the Button 4 and 5 work fine for a while until the Mac goes to sleep. Eventually they stop operating and I have to restart the service to get it to pick them back up. On Windows, it's been bullet proof. Not a single hiccup, I don't even need Intellimouse drivers, the PnP drivers built into XP pick it up.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 14:00:42: Saw this video showing scrolling by twisting the ball on the kensington slimblade, pretty cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6t--grZKU

I think I can rule out the Logitech trackman wheel completely, I need the fwd/back buttons in browsing.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 21 November 2009, 14:10:07: On most browsers nowadays, right clicking will bring up a menu asking letting you quickly select back and forward.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 14:35:14: Anyone have a slimblade here? The "Media" and "Document" modes sound interesting. Can you do the same with the Expert Mouse, but using ring instead of twisting ball?

Even if you didn't prefer it as a primary device, you could put it on the other side of the keyboard for use as a 2nd input device. Very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikS1nIN1iPc
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 21 November 2009, 14:46:32: I wouldnt trust any software-based functionality, especially when it comes from Kensington. A lot of people got left out in the cold when they decided that they couldn't be arsed to upgrade their software to support Vista and Mac OS X 10.5
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 21 November 2009, 14:56:47: I agree there, I don't even load intelli-software for my mouse, i just use it out of the box and avoid driver "suites" whenever I can. These are the things that help bloat windows and cause instability in many cases.

Amazon has a lot of poor reviews for the Slingblade but has great reviews for the Expert Mouse. Many slingblade reviewers came from the Expert and went back to it.

Slimblade
http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Slimblade-Trackball-USB-K72327US/dp/B001MTE32Y

Expert Mouse
http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Expert-Optical-Trackball-64325/dp/B00009KH63/
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 21 November 2009, 15:13:08: There's a good few bad reviews for the EM, but most of them are over-exaggerated.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 21 November 2009, 17:59:10: Quote from: ch_123;134945
The Logitech is three button and the MS is probably five (scroll wheels are generally buttons, even on trackballs)

The only four button trackball I can think of is the Kensington Expert mouse.
Show Image
(http://schwarztech.us/contentimages/reviews/kensington/expertmouse2.jpg)

You forgot the Lexmark M5-1!
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 22 November 2009, 05:39:01: The buttons on the M5s are hard programmed to dragging and dropping, are they not?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 27 November 2009, 14:58:05: So after a bit more research I realize what I really need is a 5 button scrolling trackball. Guess what, there aren't many options. 2 Fantastic ones were made by Microsoft but are no more.

MS Trackball Explorer - to me this looks like the ultimate for what I would use it for (Right in photo below)

MS Trackball Optical - I've not used a thumb trackball but if it's comfortable and fast/efficient then this would be a great device. (Left in photo below)

Seriously why in the world would MS stop making these?

(http://www.tweakers.net/ext/i.dsp/974996022.jpg)

The ONLY alternatives I can find are those mentioned above:
Kensington Expert Mouse 4 button with scroll ring, which I will likely buy. CST2545-5W which is a 5 button with 2 external buttons. Which I can't find a photo of the buttons they offer.

Anyone have a clean trackball explorer they want to part with?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 27 November 2009, 15:30:35: Microsoft stopped making them so they could make bad things like cheap rubber-dome keyboards and Windows Vista.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 27 November 2009, 15:36:03: Whoever made the decision to halt trackball production in favor of mundane keyboards and Vista should receive the following treatment daily unitl the situation has been rectified.
Keyboard Justice (http://www.yikers.com/video_/keyboard_across_the_face.html)
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 27 November 2009, 15:42:10: Quote from: didjamatic;136715
CST2545-5W which is a 5 button with 2 external buttons. Which I can't find a photo of the buttons they offer.

They don't - you have to buy them yourself.

Also, the CST is a good deal more expensive than getting an MS trackball off ebay.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 27 November 2009, 16:17:24: The Microsoft computer mice are also good quality. Computer mice ar something Microsoft has a good reputation for.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 27 November 2009, 17:33:04: Quote from: microsoft windows;136752
The Microsoft computer mice are also good quality. Computer mice ar something Microsoft has a good reputation for.

Unlike Windows Vista...
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 27 November 2009, 17:46:59: Jesus, that second one is expensive...

I've seen a used but working ones sell for about €80, which is around the same price you'd pay for a new CST.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 27 November 2009, 18:52:21: I saw one of the old Logitech Trackman FX's at around $1,100 on ebay once, although we established that the bidders were taking the piss.

I was quite interested in getting a CST, but given the price, and my nice new Trackpoint keyboard, I'm not really sure whether it's worth the money.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 28 November 2009, 07:50:38: That sounds like a good idea.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 28 November 2009, 08:07:18: Another out of production 5 button wired trackball
Macally - Trackball - optical - 5 button(s)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41S8YYA0B9L._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Macally-Trackball-optical-button-retail/dp/B00006BAPG/ref=pd_ts_e_93?ie=UTF8&s=electronics)
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 28 November 2009, 10:45:20: Another one, but based on Amazon reviews, it's not nearly as good as the Kensington Expert Mouse.
Perixx Peripro 302 (http://www.amazon.com/Perixx-Peripro-302-professional-ergonomic-trackball/dp/B002LI4Y5Q)
(http://www.ergogeek.com/ebay/images/Peripro-302/Peripro-302-unit-450.jpg)
Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEHlV4rEN0U)
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 28 November 2009, 15:56:37: That's a cool trackball.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 02 December 2009, 07:42:20: Quote from: ripster;137877
Bwahaha! Made you buy a Trackball! If I couldn't put a poolball in mine I'd continue to ignore the wacky things.

My rock is better.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 02 December 2009, 19:17:19: You'd be jealous of my yellow trackball.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 06 December 2009, 22:59:12: (http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6150)

oooh, they're mating, like popo cars in donut shoppe parking lots.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 07 December 2009, 03:17:10: It's like some type of abstract art.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 08 December 2009, 19:10:09: You mean the kind of thing where people pay thousands for some scribbles on a paper?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Tue, 08 December 2009, 19:14:54: Do not insult Picasso!
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 08 December 2009, 19:24:44: Pick-ass-O!
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Tue, 08 December 2009, 20:19:02: I am pretty sure he cut off his ear not his ass.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 09 December 2009, 08:05:26: Quote from: Computer-Lab in Basement;140323
I am pretty sure he cut off his ear not his ass.

That was Van Gogh. Cutting off his ear, that is.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 09 December 2009, 08:57:30: you're right. I get those confused. They are both just weird artists any ways.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ironcoder on Wed, 09 December 2009, 12:18:35: Quote from: didjamatic;134943
I've been only using 4 button mice w/scroll wheel since the first optical mice were popular and I'm thinking of trying something new.
Logitech Trackman Wheel Optical for $23.95

I coughed up $32.99 each for 3 trackman mice (it's hard to get stuff where I live so I tend to do alot of research and buy a few of something at once to save on shipping) and after using it for a month or so I have to say...and how can I put this delicately...it's ****e.

The ball is turning roughly and started doing that after about a week. It feels like an old bearing that is on the verge of seizing. The scroll wheel makes unhappy noises and the left and right click buttons have decidedly different action weights. It's a true POS based mouse.

I guess with some attention to manufacturing detail and QA this could have been a contenda....it does have some nice aspects like the hand filling size and contours and attractive colors but it's disappointing to have it outperformed by my 5 dollar special I bought it to "upgrade" from.

A trackball is faster in certain kinds of desktop stuff but a mouse is faster in others. The only way to know what's right for your usage pattern is probably to waste some money trying and hating various alternatives.

Just a data point since you already said it's a no go for you.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 09 December 2009, 12:37:26: Did you try removing the ball and cleaning the insides?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 09 December 2009, 12:47:31: I'd second Ch-123's idea there. With my experience with tracking balls, they can build up lots of dirt in the rollers and mechanism. If you remove the ball, you'll probably see a lot of dirt in there that needs to be cleaned off.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ironcoder on Wed, 09 December 2009, 13:10:25: Quote from: ch_123;140544
Did you try removing the ball and cleaning the insides?

No, it's new and started happening after a week. Is that the normal PM required for a one week old trackman?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 09 December 2009, 13:17:55: I don't think so. But what does it hurt to take a look?
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 09 December 2009, 13:23:07: Quote from: ironcoder;140561
No, it's new and started happening after a week. Is that the normal PM required for a one week old trackman?

I clean mine habitually, but I think you might have gotten a dud. Mine just... works. I have noticed none of the issues you mentioned.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ironcoder on Wed, 09 December 2009, 13:38:32: That's the way it generally goes, stuff gets crappier as the years roll on. I have no doubt earlier ones were made better.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Wed, 09 December 2009, 13:43:06: They never make things the way the use to...
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ch_123 on Wed, 09 December 2009, 13:45:55: Quote from: ironcoder;140580
That's the way it generally goes, stuff gets crappier as the years roll on. I have no doubt earlier ones were made better.

I actually think it's superior to its predecessor, both in terms of ergonomics, tracking and smoothness.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 09 December 2009, 14:21:17: Quote from: ironcoder;140580
stuff gets crappier as the years roll on.

Ha! You're punny.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 09 December 2009, 14:23:53: The primary force behind that quality decline principle is the fact that there are many people who don't really wish to have something of as high quality. In order to reduce costs, many companies changed their ways of producing keyboards and mice so their computers would appeal to a wider audience. The people who still wanted high-quality products just went to companies specializing in them, like what many people here do today.
Title: Thinking of a trackball/marble
Post by: ironcoder on Thu, 10 December 2009, 05:14:46: Quote from: ch_123;140585
I actually think it's superior to its predecessor, both in terms of ergonomics, tracking and smoothness.

I don't know because I don't have any experience but I did read a lot of complaints on the latest incarnation, why did they change this, it's not as good as my old one, etc.