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geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: elShoggotho on Sun, 22 November 2009, 06:34:06

Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: elShoggotho on Sun, 22 November 2009, 06:34:06: I just had the idea to build my very own arcade joystick. Microswitches and all.

Basic idea is to gut a cheap ten button gamepad and rewire all connections to arcade machine input devices. Does anyone have experience with hacks like that? Any ideas what else I should incorporate?
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: cb951303 on Sun, 22 November 2009, 06:45:16: that will work. i've seen some DIY arcade controllers that work exactly like this. basically you take out the buttons of a gamepad and solder the legs of the microswitches.

you can also buy a cheap controller if you want to build a decent arcade controller.

there is tons of information about this. check out MAME forums :)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: ricercar on Sun, 22 November 2009, 13:39:17: That lacquered tray is an awesome idea.

I purchased 10 arcade button plastics (and appropriate microswitches) over six months ago, and for me the biggest challenge remains finding a suitable enclosure. My arcade buttons have more than a 2 inch (50 mm) depth below the panel. They're far too deep for mounting in a traditional keyboard enclosure.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5875&stc=1&d=1258918727)

I was planning to use a joystick controller board, but using a keyboard or numeric keypad controller board would more closely suit my actual gaming habits. I've never been a joystick kind of guy.

EDIT
X Arcade (http://www.xgaming.com/store/category/arcade-parts-and-accessories/) offers better prices than I had 6 months ago. Australia vendor (http://www.athomedownunder.com/parts/arcade_parts.shtml)

Ripster's ebay link has 32 mm switches, for those who want a shallower console.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: arfink on Sun, 22 November 2009, 13:50:29: I have built several like this. There are two major brands to consider. Sanwa and Seimitsu. Sanwa and Seimitsu buttons are essentially the same, just different colors and the Seimitsus are available with proper microswiches if you want them, or threaded fastening instead of panel-pop-in tabs.

As for joysticks, it depends on what kind of a gamer you are. Semitsu's flagship joystick is the LS-32, and it's got a very tight deadzone with nice deep corners and a very small throw. Tighter spring though.

Sanwa sticks, on the other hand, have less-deep corners, a lighter spring, and a little more throw. There is a slightly larger deadzone in the middle. Also, Sanwa sticks have less depth below the panel, and are preferred for the "extra-thin" joystick designs.

You can get either with balltops or bat tops, in a variety of colors, and with a plastic shaft cover or just bare stainless steel.

I would suggest the Seimitsus for shooter fans, since they have a very tight feel and little to no deadzone for that twitch-sensetive movement. Sanwas are prefered for fighting games because the slightly larger deadzone, softer throw, and more rounded gate are ideal for all those rotation combos, and the slightly larger deadzone helps to avoid accidentally hitting a corner you don't want to when pulling off harder combos like dragon-punch or half/full circle rotations.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: elShoggotho on Sun, 22 November 2009, 23:04:32: I've seen the Sanwa and Seimitsu buttons. Too wobbly feel for my taste, I'm gonna use clicky buttons. For the joystick, I'll try my vendor's special offer and move on if necessary. They carry Sanwa and Seimitsu joysticks, no problem there.

I thought about this combo:

(http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/arcade-joystickeuro-black.jpg) (http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/arcade-pb-sl-rot.jpg) (http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/arcade-pblight-26x45-w.jpg)

and this for the case:
(http://laun-treppenbau.de/Bilder_Produkte/07_Wissenswertes/B_Alu_Duett_Warzenblech.jpg)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: arfink on Sun, 22 November 2009, 23:28:28: Ohh, that stick is one of the crummy HAPP knockoffs... hmm. One thing to note, is that even though the Jap buttons feel mushy, in my experience they are far more responsive than the HAPP competition style clicky buttons. Seimitsu does have clicky buttons as well, which are a lower profile than those huge ones, and I would suggest you take a look at them.

You can buy them cheaply from here:
http://www.akihabarashop.jp/

Even though you paya bit more for shipping, it's the cheapest place to get these parts.

EDIT: and not to completely rain on your parade, but unless that panel is perfectly soothe you're going to hate the feel, IMO. Too many bumps in wrong places, it would be so uncomfortable. Regular sheet metal, or better still, wood and plexiglass, would be far more pleasing to handle all the time.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: PikachuDX on Fri, 27 November 2009, 07:52:33: DjLeFiX6b2,.t7MZ,RW7m![P7XQFgQg%tqsIBiK^6idL6~IpLh
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 27 November 2009, 08:09:28: It would be neat to make a joystick that acts like a computer mouse.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: elShoggotho on Tue, 22 December 2009, 04:45:13: Reworked the plan, ordered Seimitsu parts. Stuff arrived today. One word: glorious!

Next stop: Finish the device!
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 22 December 2009, 17:59:37: Quote from: elShoggotho;144398
Stuff arrived today. One word: glorious

Pictures, mon, pictures!
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: elShoggotho on Tue, 22 December 2009, 21:23:25: Just let me solder the device again. I made some error with the soldering, destroyed the switchboard, which means that I have to slaughter the second pad.

UPDATE: Damnit. Second pad works just fine, it's just that two of the microswitches have given out. Just ordered replacement from arcadeshop.de (can't wait for the Japanese shop), but I'll have to wait until after Christmas to get it completely rolling.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: Oqsy on Tue, 05 January 2010, 00:08:00: Quote from: microsoft windows;136688
It would be neat to make a joystick that acts like a computer mouse.

I have a Nostromo gamepad with analog sticks that does just that. There is a button in the middle that changes the joystick function to mouse function, as well as a key mapped to Esc. Very handy when you're in MAME and want to change to another task quickly and don't want to mess with holding the controller in your lap while you grab the mouse or peck at the keyboard. It's also USB, and I'm sure it could be gutted and reconstituted in a arcade-style layout with full blown joystick and big candy red buttons! In fact, that was my goal back when I was planning a MAME cabinet years ago... I've since had 3 kids and money for the project has vanished. I was also planning on changing the switch for the mouse toggle from a button that had to be held down (like a doorbell) to one that locks into position (like a flashlight). I'll dig up the joystick and find the model, but it's was a pretty common nostromo game controller at the time (around 2001-2002).
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: DreymaR on Tue, 05 January 2010, 03:33:51: Hmmm... I seem to remember some in-depth topics on this from the Shoryuken forums (http://forums.shoryuken.com/). I'm not a regular there, but I just got Tekken 6 so I've started to think about getting a stick.

Do any of you know a decent but not prohibitively expensive stick that doesn't amount to a lot of parts ordering and soldering? The one that comes with the Special Edition of Tekken 6 (or Street Fighter I guess) seems to get mediocre reviews. That's a Hoto(?) stick from what I gather, and at Shoryuken they seem to be all about modding Madcatz sticks. Haven't tried either one myself...
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 13 May 2010, 08:10:59: Kinda late response... But I had to pick a arcade stick myself recently,
and here is what i learned while reading trough the Shoryuken forums:

- Building ya own one is relative easy, also not that expensive
- The "SE" variant of the Madcatz Sticks are of lower quality but good for modding
- The "TE" variant of the Madcatz Sticks are more expensive but use higher quality parts, so they are sorta "battle ready"
- There are some other good sticks like the "Hori Real Arcade Pro", but depending on where you live they are harder to get, and they are also expensive

I went with a Madcatz TE stick and currently change the artwork and buttons (to match the color of the artwork). Gonna post some images when I'm done!
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: kriminal on Thu, 13 May 2010, 08:16:53: hmm i got a hori arcade stick with sanwas and i was thinking of changing the joystick and its square gate... to octagon..,
so this thread interests me.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 13 May 2010, 08:22:19: Yeah, also got a octo-restrictor... :)
Swapping is actually very easy and takes only like 1-3 minutes!
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 13 May 2010, 08:30:18: Btw, I wish we had a small subsection for Joysticks, Arcadesticks and Gamepads:

- They are geeky
- They can be modded
- They are input devices, but...
- They are not really pointing devices
- They also use a wide spectrum of switches
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: Megaweapon on Thu, 13 May 2010, 13:09:32: BYOAC Forum (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/) is an excellent place for this topic.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: Mercen_505 on Thu, 13 May 2010, 14:42:25: I've been MAMEing for many years now, and have always found it vexing that I do not have a good way of controlling titles like Heavy Barrel, Ikari Warriors, Time Soldiers, etc. They use twisty knobs that are difficult to recreate and equally nasty to emulate with keys or buttons. It's just not the same.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 13 May 2010, 15:04:20: While I loved the game, playing Ikari Warriors on the NES was a ***** without the twisty handles.

ABBA, FTW. (Not the band, either.)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 13 May 2010, 16:18:44: Quote from: itlnstln;182075
...was a ***** without the twisty handles.

You're in a maze of twisty little handles, all alike.
Title: For the ones interested
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Wed, 26 May 2010, 08:57:07: Some links...

- Arcade hardware store (http://www.arcadeshop.de/)
- Everything about arcade sticks (http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/introduction.html)
- Custom plexi covers and artwork prints (http://www.tek-innovations.com/arthobbies/index.cfm?CFID=2033394&CFTOKEN=71484527)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: timofonic on Fri, 04 June 2010, 23:40:18: I'm thinking on one way to have an arcade stick without need of drivers, but not sure about the possibility...

Connecting an arcade stick, so using the four directions plus other keys for additional ones. I can parasite the signals from the numeric keyboard. That way I can have a nice arcade joystick and avoiding driver hell at same time.

I find PITA the need to configure games or emus for joystick, that way I can avoid it more

Also... I can use spacebar, ctrl or other popular keys instead (even regular direction keys instead numeric one) and avoiding 2kro too. That way there's joystick without needing to configure most software.

Or using a MCU that uses different keys depending on some kind of switch in the joystick part.

I also found THIS PROJECT (http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_jim.html) that seems interesting as reference.

But Model M being 2kro could **** the idea totally...

Right?
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 05 June 2010, 04:50:23: Some mod I did recently to my TE stick...

(http://soulhunter.razorbb.net/misc/HeatShrinkMod01.jpg)

Added 3 layers of heat-shrink-tubes to the actuator to reduce travel and buffer the actuation/restriction...

(http://soulhunter.razorbb.net/misc/HeatShrinkMod03.jpg)

So far it works very well, much better than this popular electro-tape -> actuator ghetto counterpart! :P
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: 002 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 04:18:16: @TheSoulhunter: I take it you don't like the square restrictor gate?
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 08 June 2010, 05:58:28: -
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Tue, 08 June 2010, 09:13:26: Quote from: 002;190849
@TheSoulhunter: I take it you don't like the square restrictor gate?
I tried both, but for some reason square feels wrong to me...
Well, that's just for 8-directional games like SF, not for scroll shooters etc.

Quote from: victheslik;190859
If you have any questions regarding the TE , I'm friends with Markman the creator from Madcatz and I can forward any questions you have about that to him...
Ok, tell/ask him...

1.
Thanks for using flat sides on the SSF4 TE version, I hated the "wings" of the old SF4 TE version
As we talk about it... Can you send/sell me replacement flat sides for my SF4 TE? :D

2.
Can you perhaps add more color particles to the plastic or make it thicker or something?
Because you can see stabilizer braces n stuff trough the plastic here and there :/

3.
If the artwork-sticker would be applied to some plastic sheet which is fastened on the metal plate,
it would be much easier to remove, and it would also be much easier to mount Art's plexi covers
(atm they stick out a bit because they are obviously thicker than the thin sticker)

4.
Why not having the artwork in form of a print under a plexi cover to begin with?
This way adding custom artwork would be much easier...

5.
Thanks for bringing us this products!
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: bloodien0se on Wed, 09 June 2010, 19:02:17: I'm new to fighting games, but interested in getting an arcade stick for 360/PC for home practicing. I'm leaning towards a TE but they are a little much right now. Any recommendations? Save for the TE? Buy a SE and upgrade? Some other stick?

Edit:
I got a SE on the way, plans are to play with it and see what I dislike it, and upgrade with sanwa and/or semitsu parts in order of what I feel needs replacement most.
Eventually I'll color the case, or maybe buy a sweet ass panel from one of the guys on SRK who sells them, I've seen some really nice ones.

Or I'll find out I hate fighting games and never do anything, we will see.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 18 June 2010, 17:50:52: As we talk about customizing...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11250&stc=1&d=1276902328)

My Dictator Stick: SSF4 TE stick + red bezel + custom artwork + plexi cover from "Art's Hobbies" + red sanwa buttons + red balltop
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Mon, 28 June 2010, 05:37:09: Another one of my modded sticks...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11433&stc=1&d=1277721312)

SF4 TE stick + full size black plexi cover from "Art's Hobbies" + blue sanwa buttons + blue balltop
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: phillip on Mon, 28 June 2010, 12:24:16: I have a hori real arcade pro 3-sa and a hori fightstick 3...no mods to either of them, but i really suck with them anyway. i do much better with a controller, not that i'm any good at fighting games in the first place :(
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: Buckling_Summer on Mon, 28 June 2010, 17:37:57: Guys these are magnificent retro gems..

I want one with buttons on the left. But these hard days no time for MAMEing, just for my retirement days :-)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Mon, 28 June 2010, 17:59:49: Quote from: Buckling_Summer;197381
I want one with buttons on the left...
Even this is possible (http://www.tek-innovations.com/arthobbies/?loc=panelbuilder&act=te), thanks to Art! :)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: speedlolita on Mon, 03 January 2011, 17:41:01: Hope it's okay to bump this..

Here's my stick:

(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n85/eurekaworks/DSC_0097-4.jpg)

Has an RJ-45 port for various console cables as I have an MC Cthulhu hooked up to a 360 TE PCB which is switchable via an imp board. I just have to hold down my guide button to go to 360 mode, all other consoles are default though.

(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n85/eurekaworks/DSC_0098-3.jpg)

Port

(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n85/eurekaworks/DSC_0050-1.jpg)

Wiring, now has a few minor changes as I installed another button as you can see above which can be switched via a SPDT switch inside the cable compartment between Guide and Select as I removed my turbo panel when I got new plexi.

Has cost a ton of money, did all the work myself though and couldn't be happier. :D
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: nanu on Sun, 09 January 2011, 18:37:12: Awesome thread. Lots of nice-looking work. I have this growing itch to make a modern arcade stick even if I'm just a casual gamer. Actually if I would just let this project stay unstarted for over a week or two I could probably kill off the desire and motivation a good amount.

Here are my thoughts. I want advice. Maybe I should lurk on more hardcore stick-related forums.

I have no power tools for woodworking so what's ultimately preventing me from starting is the reluctance to construct a solidly built case. Where can I buy a barebones wooden case, with acrylic for the top, but without pre-drilled holes? Any extent of "from scratch" is fine. I'd maybe even get someone to cut stock for me if those parts could assemble. I just want to enjoy the making and customization process, so I'm undecided at what route would create the least frustration.

I don't play FTGs but STGs on occasion for the PC. I'm eyeing Seimitsu parts. I cluelessly built a stick in '97 from Happ parts. I didn't quite like Happ pushbuttons, feeling those were sorta big. The Ultimate joystick I got then also felt like a workout. So I'm looking to get an LS-32 and 24mm buttons, probably clear. I'm undecided on art, so default to a black ball top for now. Maybe I shouldn't but I'm leaning towards a 30mm ball rather than a 35mm to perhaps not look disproportionate to the buttons if I inevitably share pictures lol
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: RoboKrikit on Sun, 09 January 2011, 20:44:13: You need to go here: SRK Tech Talk (http://shoryuken.com/f177/)

If I were you I would go for something pretty standard, then decide if you want to do anything weird like 24mm primary buttons and a 30mm balltop. It's not unheard of to make a stick like that, but the 30s are the norm even for people with small hands (standard Japanese arcade layout).

I've used a 30mm balltop on Seimitsu sticks before and it isn't a great match for most things. I use it sometimes for playing bullet hell shmups, but it is pretty awkward aside of that. Changing the balltop size changes the way you hold the stick, and changing weight alters the feel. Honestly the manufacturers have this pretty well dialed in already, but it is fun to experiment.

This is coming from a guy who weighs his balls (http://shoryuken.com/blogs/robokrikit/%5Btechtalk%5D-how-much-do-your-balls-weigh-1064/).

Here are some shots of my tiny ball if you were wondering what it looks like.

(http://i.imgur.com/YXTdr.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/jApCs.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/EFrEw.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/pxv5a.jpg)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: nanu on Sun, 09 January 2011, 21:22:40: After researching more I'm tending to agree. I kind of want a new hobby but not really if it becomes too spendy, but this one initially looks sort of more limited and short-lived than The Keyboard Scene at least.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: PikachuDX on Mon, 10 January 2011, 09:59:06: fo}nB.!KGtf@2YVCvfm.g,bgWY&Ub#xF!x2z}JoyIKSnnM8cgt
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: nanu on Sat, 15 January 2011, 19:55:53: Welp, I ordered parts.

Quote from: ripster;275927
You can mix the hobbies up a bit.
Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4741851360_74d57658cd_z.jpg)

I should mix up Legos with Sanwas sometime.

Yeah I'm probably going to mix the hobbies up a bit. Already I'm planning to silence the clicky joystick microswitches by using Cherry MX switches instead. That will be fun. I can foresee never completing this project either because of so many subtasks such as this.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: sixty on Sun, 16 January 2011, 18:48:24: Quote from: nanu
Welp, I ordered parts.

Yeah I'm probably going to mix the hobbies up a bit. Already I'm planning to silence the clicky joystick microswitches by using Cherry MX switches instead. That will be fun. I can foresee never completing this project either because of so many subtasks such as this.

Looking forward to your final outcome! I assume it will contain a lot of wood, tohou faceplate and paracord =D
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: kill will on Sun, 16 January 2011, 20:33:52: you should also look into seimitsu buttons. i prefer them sometimes over sanwa.

for joysticks i love the sanwa jlf for most applications and some applications i use an ascii optical joystick.

the TE stick was the biggest failure ive ever witnessed. 10,000 people all waiting for this great stick, and it didnt even work on most windows and was cheaply built.

the only stick i own right now is an ascii fighting stick.

joysticks and keyboards DEFINITELY go together well.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: nanu on Sun, 16 January 2011, 21:10:43: I did my research, I hope. SRK Tech Talk and slagcoin. Thanks guys for the pointers.

I got the Seimitsu LS-32 with round restrictor and 30mm PS-14-KN buttons, in clear.

Until I make progress on the actual build, I'll still be hijacking this thread :D

I might have to reconsider the Cherry MX lulz, having searched and discovered Versa-Micro switches (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=95361.0). Just placed an order for those.

Still undecided on a PCB. Funny how months ago, PJRC teensys were in stock but teensy++s were sold out, and now it's vice versa. Might gut a gamepad but then regret it later.

Quote from: sixty;279590
Looking forward to your final outcome! I assume it will contain a lot of wood, tohou faceplate and paracord =D

I put too much effort to use the crap I'm hoarding before throwing it out. So for a case, I plan to gut this AppleCD 150.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11557&stc=1&d=1278181984)
I will use wood anyhow for the sides and internal structure.

You see, it's fairly small for a controller box but it's small enough to fit into my DEEP-modded keyboard drawer, so the plan is to just push the keyboard back and place the stick there instead of my lap.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: CodeChef on Mon, 17 January 2011, 10:08:29: ****, that reminds me, I still need to pick up a stick for my build. Why are they all so aspensive! T.T

Does anyone have a cheapo stick they want to get rid of? Maybe a Hori or a Madcatz one?
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Tue, 18 January 2011, 18:53:46: I have a pending order for two Mad Catz TvC sticks. At $25 a pop shipped, it's hard to resist. (Basically, they're doing buy-one-get-one-free deals coupled with a "WARZONE3" code that shaves off another 20-30% of the price before shipping.)

I'll have to mod the hell out of them to get what I really want, though-probably replacing the whole top surface in the process. (Adding in a couple of MC Cthulhu boards for PC, PS3, Saturn, and other console support would be fairly straightforward. So would be replacing the stick with a Sanwa JLF + octogonal gate restrictor. But swapping out all those buttons for Happ/iL horizontal microswitch ones with concave plungers, with a different button layout at that? Not so much!)

And if I ultimately don't like 'em that much? I'm sure they'll sell. But I'll have to wait for them to arrive before deciding on that, and that'll likely take a week from now.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: fartbutt on Sat, 22 January 2011, 00:12:34: Quote from: nanu;279639
Still undecided on a PCB. Funny how months ago, PJRC teensys were in stock but teensy++s were sold out, and now it's vice versa. Might gut a gamepad but then regret it later.

Theres very little reason to gut a pad these days - you can get ps3/360/pc compatibility in one pcb now (PS360), or PS3/PC/A ****load of other consoles with the mc cthulhu. A PS1 digital pad is good if you want to go the padhack route, as it has the best compatibility with PSX->Other Console converters (and those are available for pretty much every system).

Quote from: kill will;279625
the TE stick was the biggest failure ive ever witnessed. 10,000 people all waiting for this great stick, and it didnt even work on most windows and was cheaply built.

That was only the ps3 version of the TE.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: RoboKrikit on Sat, 22 January 2011, 02:58:20: The TE is a great stick. I have a VLX, V3-SA, HRAPs, TEs, customs, and I usually play on my old TE because it's the right size and weight, gets the job done, and I don't have to worry too much about beating on it because it's easy to fix or replace. I'm curious to see what they replace the old SE and TE with this year.

PS3 TEs won't work on a PC unless it has an USB chipset supporting the UHCI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_controller_interface#Universal_Host_Controller_Interface) spec (usually Intel or VIA). The 360 TE doesn't have this restriction.

Quote from: NamelessPFG;280723
I have a pending order for two Mad Catz TvC sticks. At $25 a pop shipped, it's hard to resist. (Basically, they're doing buy-one-get-one-free deals coupled with a "WARZONE3" code that shaves off another 20-30% of the price before shipping.)

I'll have to mod the hell out of them to get what I really want, though-probably replacing the whole top surface in the process. (Adding in a couple of MC Cthulhu boards for PC, PS3, Saturn, and other console support would be fairly straightforward. So would be replacing the stick with a Sanwa JLF + octogonal gate restrictor. But swapping out all those buttons for Happ/iL horizontal microswitch ones with concave plungers, with a different button layout at that? Not so much!)

It sounds like you are in for some work. The plate on the TvC/SE is slanted on the front and pretty tight inside for Happ/iL buttons. If you want to replace the control panel in the SE you'll need to cut a plate to the correct size, weld a joystick mounting plate onto it, and bend the front, then find a way to get the Happ buttons in there without shorting out the ground terminals on the bottom plate (http://shoryuken.com/f177/happ-convex-buttons-mad-catz-sf4-se-fightstick-204814/). The last bit should be the easiest. :)

If you can put up with the stock button holes, you should be able to get away with just taping the bottom plate to prevent the switches from grounding out.

Unlike the previous SE sticks, the TvC model actually has really decent parts (http://shoryuken.com/f177/tatsunoko-vs-capcom-stick-wii-madcatz-confirmed-211098/index11.html#post8290419), so once you get a working PCB in there it isn't bad.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Sat, 22 January 2011, 16:58:29: Way to remind me that I don't have those TvC sticks yet. No shipping confirmation with a tracking number. Is the demand really that high over there?

Also, I was hoping that the bottom leg wasn't a needed ground leg and could be removed, because some microswitches only have two terminals. Guess that won't be the case with the good microswitches, but adding a bit of height would be much easier than changing out the metal plate for something with a different layout. (Especially because all the replacement acrylic tops seem to cater to the more expensive Tournament Edition sticks, which also don't have Wii versions. I could at least use the TvC stick cables with an MC Cthulhu instead of sacrificing other attachments' cables...)

But I'll worry about all of that later and use the TvC sticks stock when I get them (IF I get them, at this rate), just to see if the stock parts end up more appealing than I initially thought. In the meantime, I'll weigh my options for modding those vs. building a different project box stick.

EDIT: Got them this morning...just before I leave for today's classes. It'll be a few hours before I can try them out, but I definitely wasn't expecting them to arrive so soon with no shipping notifications or tracking numbers.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: JelinaNU on Sat, 29 January 2011, 23:22:46: The new (since the release of SF4) Mad Catz sticks are solid and offer the best cost:benefit for most players. If you want to go custom, though, then matters get substantially more complicated.

A lot of stick selection comes down to personal preference, as with mechanical switches. For an example: many of the Japanese arcade cabinets use joysticks with square gates, yet most Americans have never used such and find them very strange or downright enraging. It's a subtle difference in feel that still fraks with their feel and can cause them to drop combos or miss timings. Even the weight of the springs in the sticks can matter in this way. I bought a custom stick when I was playing pretty competitively in Oz, but mistakenly asked for the new P360 joystick with stiff springs. It was optical. I couldn't do a damn thing that I wanted to and promptly boxed the stick, muttering to myself as I did. Actually, I almost threw it out a window when I couldn't find and hold down-back. (Yes, it was that bad.) Do your research.

Buttons? Sanwa and Seimitsu are the only way to go. That's what's in every custom competitive stick, every newer Mad Catz, and every Hori. Just ask yourself whether you prefer convex or concave buttons. A lot of casual players tend to slam the buttons, making concave a good choice, for example. The list can go on, but I've probably put everyone to sleep by now.

If you're looking for some inspiration, check out Byrdo (http://www.byrdo.org) or Foe Hammer (http://www.foe-hammer.com). Any technical/DIY questions that you have could almost certainly be answered with a search of one of the stick megathreads over at SRK (http://shoryuken.com/forum/).
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Sun, 30 January 2011, 19:06:28: I have a good idea of what I want; I've been lurking SRK for some time now, as well as the Shmups Forum (http://shmups.system11.org/). The most difficult part will be the casing. Unfortunately, a lot of pre-made stick cases are made with Japanese parts in mind and aren't tall enough to fit those long Happ/iL buttons. (Why are those so long, anyway? The plunger travel doesn't feel anywhere near that long.)

It's funny that you mention that Sanwa and Seimitsu are the only way to go, but then you mention the choice between concave and convex. I've seen flat Seimitsu buttons, but never concave. Sanwa only does convex. But that's not the main reason why I'd like Happ/iL. It's partly nostalgia, but also partly because I like my buttons to click. Japanese buttons are more like Cherry MX Reds, but with less travel. (Genuine Sanwa buttons feel smoother than their Mad Catz knockoffs, though. Still not something I notice much when I'm hammering on them.)

I want a custom stick precisely because my personal preferences aren't being satisfied with any out-of-the-box product out there. The cheap TvC sticks are merely dipping my toes in the water, so to speak. If I decide I really want to go all in, I'll have my ideal stick made-with a Seimitsu LS-56 (haven't tried one, but it's said to be nice and tight, unlike those very loose JLFs I've used) and Happ/iL buttons. An odd combination I've never, ever seen used before, because most sticks are either all-Western or all-Japanese, not mixed.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: JelinaNU on Sun, 30 January 2011, 19:17:34: I remember seeing a post from one of the custom stick builders showcasing their new acrylic or plastic cases, all transparent or translucent and sold individually as a kit. Where was that? It may not be at all what you're after, but I can try to track the thread down again if it is.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: nanu on Sun, 30 January 2011, 19:50:47: Quote from: JelinaNU;287501
I remember seeing a post from one of the custom stick builders showcasing their new acrylic or plastic cases, all transparent or translucent and sold individually as a kit. Where was that? It may not be at all what you're after, but I can try to track the thread down again if it is.

arthong's DIY custom acrylic cases? I too saw it but maybe it was a site post and not a forum post...
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Mon, 31 January 2011, 11:36:51: I've seen those cases before. Too short for Western buttons, as usual.

If he's willing to make a lengthened version, I'd consider it.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: fartbutt on Thu, 03 February 2011, 13:07:36: You can fit iL (iL is preferred over happ these days) PSL buttons into the SE case, but not PSL-L without putting spacers in on the bottom panel.

(http://i.imgur.com/bBzyI.jpg)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Thu, 03 February 2011, 15:12:27: That's what I've heard, but there's a problem.

I can't find iL PSL buttons for sale anywhere. All I find are the PSL-L variety that need the spacers, Happ and iL alike.

Where do people buy them?
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: fartbutt on Sat, 05 February 2011, 15:10:52: You might want to track kowal down on byoac forums or srk and ask him maybe. He knows all about this stuff
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Wed, 09 February 2011, 17:49:57: Now that I got my Mayflash Classic Controller USB adapter today and verified that it worked fine with my TvC sticks, I fired up some GGXX #Reload.

My execution feels all wrong now-not that it was anything special with a pad. Perhaps this is to be expected since the muscle memory isn't there.

But I can't even double-tap to dash that easily. These JLF-style sticks are too damn loose, as I feared. Might have to grab a couple of LS-56s...though looking at the actuator, if someone were to fabricate a thicker one, that would just as easily do the trick. (But I don't think anyone has, if only because people seem to LIKE that JLF looseness.)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: nanu on Wed, 09 February 2011, 18:44:57: SoulHunter uses heat shrink tubing to lower the throw of his stick. http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=189866&postcount=25
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: RoboKrikit on Wed, 09 February 2011, 20:11:53: Quote from: NamelessPFG;292536
My execution feels all wrong now-not that it was anything special with a pad. Perhaps this is to be expected since the muscle memory isn't there.

But I can't even double-tap to dash that easily. These JLF-style sticks are too damn loose, as I feared. Might have to grab a couple of LS-56s...though looking at the actuator, if someone were to fabricate a thicker one, that would just as easily do the trick. (But I don't think anyone has, if only because people seem to LIKE that JLF looseness.)

You want the stick to adjust to you, when it is you that must adjust to the stick.

(http://i.imgur.com/VGVDHl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/VGVDH)

It is totally normal to take a while to get used to using a stick (in general or a specific one). The JLF definitely double taps just fine.

(That could be an LS-32, hard to tell. Doesn't really matter.)

If you are coming from pad it is typical to take weeks or months to get back to the level of play you are used to. If you're more familiar with Happ sticks, it's still very different since you are using mostly your fingers and hand and very little arm movement compared to old US cabs.

You might like an LS-32 though. The LS-56 is REALLY tight. If you do get one, definitely get the bat top and the octo gate for it. It might be the only stick that has a decent octo gate. I personally think the LS-56 is too tight for fighting games because it demands too much precision from the user, even if the feel is nice. I've recommended it to several people who didn't want to or couldn't get used to Japanese-style sticks (coming from Happ), and it did work out for a few of them.

Note that the looser sticks like the JLF (and LS-32) actually offer more precision than 'tight' sticks. The tight feel may be nice, but all of the actuators are much closer to each other, and it becomes easier to enter accidental inputs, especially in gameplay with higher execution requirements.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Wed, 09 February 2011, 22:37:09: After a few more minutes of GGXX #Reload, some things set in.

-Rapid movement still feels rather weird at the moment. But circle motions actually work pretty well, once you get the hang of the actuation zones. I noticed problems with diagonal jumping, so I tried to compensate for that...perhaps a bit too much. A double-QCF move attempt kept giving me a DP move. The trick? Move the stick just a bit higher so it's resting at 6 (right) when I hit the button, not 3 (down-right). I never did quite notice this 'til I started to listen carefully for the distinct microswitch clicks.

-The angle of my arm to the stick affects the feel a lot. Come to think of it, the general ergonomics of how I'm holding the stick in the first place and how it's positioned do seem to have a drastic effect on the feel when trying to pull off those motions.

Speaking of octo-gates, word is that what makes the JLF and the LS-56 so different in that regard is that the former actually increases the stick's travel relative to the square gate, while the latter restricts it instead. Is that true?

I'm also still left wondering why there aren't different actuator bits for JLFs and their clones. If people are resorting to electrical tape and heatshrink tubing, why not offer multiple actuators like there are multiple restrictor gates? At the very least, a JLF could be tightened up like an LS-56, but the LS-56 can't be made all loose like a JLF.

As for the LS-32...I'm not sure. It's more common, but I might like an octogonal gate better...yet I manage with square-gated Neo-Geo CD pads when playing shmups on said console. Perhaps it depends on what's too loose, what's too tight, and what's just right, which isn't easy to tell without actually getting a hands-on evaluation.

(Speaking of which: Why isn't there a sink list for these things? Something like the Switch Try Board, except they're arcade joysticks!)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: kill will on Wed, 09 February 2011, 22:43:37: this isnt a joystick forum. i think for the best info look into shoryuken.com ... look into older topics as SF4 brought A LOT of bs.

All the sticks are great, but I would stick to JLF as it seems to be the most accepted stick.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: RoboKrikit on Thu, 10 February 2011, 01:22:33: Quote from: NamelessPFG;292688
Speaking of octo-gates, word is that what makes the JLF and the LS-56 so different in that regard is that the former actually increases the stick's travel relative to the square gate, while the latter restricts it instead. Is that true?

Yes, that is true. Some people like the JLF octo, but it does increase the throw yet further in the cardinal directions.

Toodles' GT-C restrictor (http://www.lizardlick.com/Sanwa-GT-C-Round-Restrictor-Plate-Insert_p_616.html) (circular JLF gate) is available now. I helped test this out and it is pretty much the sweet spot for JLF circle gates without changing the actuator size. I like the stock JLF best, but this turned out pretty decent. I think it might be a little better with a slightly larger actuator to help out with diagonals. The throw is still pretty far, but tightening it up any more makes the diagonals too difficult to hit.

Quote from: NamelessPFG;292688
I'm also still left wondering why there aren't different actuator bits for JLFs and their clones. If people are resorting to electrical tape and heatshrink tubing, why not offer multiple actuators like there are multiple restrictor gates? At the very least, a JLF could be tightened up like an LS-56, but the LS-56 can't be made all loose like a JLF.

Sanwa's customers are primarily Japanese arcades and peripheral manufacturers. If you make big enough orders they can do things like special colors and whatnot (Per@akihabarashop has done this), but doing a new mold for a handful of home users not likely to happen. It'd have to be someone closer to the community willing to make an investment, like Toodles did with the GT-C. I actually asked him about a larger actuator to pair with the GT-C, but the expense of the GT-C itself was too much to consider making another part. So yeah, buy one. :D
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: NamelessPFG on Sun, 20 February 2011, 16:27:35: I decided to do the crude "electrical tape around the actuator" mod, and I think I've found a bit of a sweet spot. Right now, it handles like I would imagine an LS-32 to feel. Still a bit loose around center, but tight enough to where I can more comfortably pull off circular motions and double-tap. I actually loosened it up some because tightening it to the point I would imagine an LS-56 to be like ended up with the switches staying stuck unless I carefully centered the stick. (I'd still like a professionally-made actuator, but I lack the tools and skills.)

I've gotta grab a GT-Y or two, though, just to experiment further with actuator tweaks. It might work out better with a JLF + GT-Y gate + enlarged actuator than an LS-32 or LS-56 for all I know.

Perhaps I should stop playing fighting games for a while and use it with some shmups. Too bad I haven't installed MC Cthulhu boards in them yet, so any stick time with Radiant Silvergun will have to be through SSF.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: Kelsin on Sat, 05 March 2011, 10:30:11: Just wanted to add here that sometimes you can find collector's editions of games laying around in Best Buy's and GameStop's that include Hori sticks that could easily be used for parts. Just the other day I bought Tekken6 CE for $30 bucks brand new from Best Buy. Brand new Hori stick for $30 is great :)
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: fartbutt on Tue, 08 March 2011, 11:20:00: The cheaper hori sticks tend to be a ***** to mod though - they are very shallow.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: Carefoot on Thu, 10 March 2011, 11:42:15: Quote from: fartbutt;307686
The cheaper hori sticks tend to be a ***** to mod though - they are very shallow.

...Well it already arrived I must use it XD
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: slueth on Tue, 29 March 2011, 12:24:21: Sigh, I think I am going to want a arcade stick too. Been playing lots of MVC3 and just preordered mk9. Tried to get super street fighter 4 but gamestop didn't have it. Didn't find any at the pawn stores(only old games no one plays), so I might order from Amazon.

Been thinking of making the case out of plastics. Going to have to create a plan and go to tap's plastic to get them to cut the plastics for me. Get me a 8 button layout with 3 buttons on the top. One for ps home and start and a select. Maybe a slide out bottom so I can close it and also slide it out to repair/mod it. Going to use sanwa joystick and buttons with a pcb from lizardlick.com(Toodles Cthulhu for Multi-Console). Maybe buy an Octagonal Restrictor Plate.

Not sure what artwork to place on it but maybe a clear plexiglas on top and slide the art underneath.
Title: Brainstorm: Building an arcade stick
Post by: Carefoot on Tue, 05 April 2011, 19:14:52: Quote from: slueth;320770
Sigh, I think I am going to want a arcade stick too. Been playing lots of MVC3 and just preordered mk9. Tried to get super street fighter 4 but gamestop didn't have it. Didn't find any at the pawn stores(only old games no one plays), so I might order from Amazon.

Been thinking of making the case out of plastics. Going to have to create a plan and go to tap's plastic to get them to cut the plastics for me. Get me a 8 button layout with 3 buttons on the top. One for ps home and start and a select. Maybe a slide out bottom so I can close it and also slide it out to repair/mod it. Going to use sanwa joystick and buttons with a pcb from lizardlick.com(Toodles Cthulhu for Multi-Console). Maybe buy an Octagonal Restrictor Plate.

Not sure what artwork to place on it but maybe a clear plexiglas on top and slide the art underneath.

http://shoryuken.com/f177/arts-arcade-stick-plexiglass-covers-tekcase-other-updates-post-3447-a-183523/

I i have no idea how to use a Cthulhu I was planning on gutting my EX2 hori for its guts and use sanwa buttons with jlf, I ordered a round gate for my JLF I will also need a plexy mounting plate too boot.